Imaginary Worlds - Bringing Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein to Life

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

When director Guillermo del Toro asked Tamara Deverell to be the production designer on his film adaptation of Frankenstein, she had a good idea of what he wanted. Del Toro had been dreaming of making a Frankenstein movie for years, and she had worked with him on several projects before. She told me they’re so much sync, “I find with Guillermo, it’s not speaking in words, it’s speaking with images.” But that didn’t make the production design any less challenging. We discuss where Tamara looked for inspiration, why it’s important for her to build physical sets no matter the size, and how she reimagined the signature set piece of every Frankenstein adaptation -- the lab where The Creature comes to life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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earning rave reviews at TIF. Rental Family is emotional, funny, and the feel-good movie of the year. Academy Award winner Brendan Fraser stars as a lonely American actor living in Tokyo who struggles to find purpose until he starts working for a Japanese rental family agency. the way, he forges some surprising human connections and discovers unexpected joys within his built-in family. Experience rental family, only in theaters November 21st. You're listening to imaginary worlds, a show about how we create them and why we suspend our disbelief. I'm Eric Malinski. Victor Frankenstein, directed by Guillermo del Toro, has been out in theaters for a few weeks, and it's coming to Netflix on November 7th.

My creator. The movie is a passion project for D'Oro. He has been obsessed with Frankenstein since he was a kid. I've discussed Giral D'Otoro many times before. I talked about his film Crimson Peak in my episode on the Modern Gothic. I interviewed Steve Wang, who did creature makeup design for Hellboy. I also interviewed the actor Doug Jones, who played creature characters, in Hellboy, Pan's Labyrinth, and in the shape of water.

Today's episode is an interview with Tamara Deverell. She is the production designer on the new Frankenstein film. And the production design is so compelling. I actually felt like it was the third main character in the film after Victor Frankenstein, played by Oscar Isaac, and The Creature, played by Jacob Allorty. They filmed a lot of the movie in Scotland. which was an important place in Mary Shelley's life.

She partially grew up there, and she wrote, that's where, quote, the airy flights of my imagination were born and fostered. I don't think I need to give a spoiler warning for my conversation with Tamara because the movie follows the familiar beats of many other Frankenstein adaptations that have been faithful to Mary Shelley's novel.

Victor is a mad genius. He is a love interest named Elizabeth. He creates the creature from dead body parts, the creature is shunned by society, and there's a final showdown between them in the Arctic. This is Tamara's fifth time working on a Guillermo del Toro project, before Frankenstein, her most recent film with him was Nightmare Alley, starring Bradley Cooper. I started by asking, at this point in her working relationship with Guillermo del Toro, does he just like send her a text message saying, Frankenstein, you in? She said pretty close. I mean, Frankenstein, he mentioned it at actually at the party at the premiere of Nightmare Alley. You know, he picks his moments.

It was very dramatic. And we were at this party and there's all these glamorous people and movie stars. And he goes, Frankenstein. Frankenstein. Which he'd already mentioned to me and I knew it was brewing in his head. And I, you know, I knew he'd had it. for a long time, it was a project that he wanted to do. But that was the moment. He was like, oh, yeah, we're in this together.

So, well, he's been wanting to make this movie for years. So I imagine he's spent a long time visually imagining Frankenstein, coming to you to be, like, you know, you're not coming in with a blank canvas, so to speak. I mean, does that make your job more challenging in some ways when he already has so many ideas, or is it easier to be able to use that as a jumpstart? I would say a bit of both. In some ways, it's easier because I have an, you know, he will work on concept drawings before he starts with a production designer like myself. That gives me a starting point. You know, in one way it's great and, you know, to come in and know something of what's in Guillermo's complicated and complex mind. And then in other ways, it's like, it could be a bit of an hindrance for me where I, like, I have a different idea and I have to go, okay, I can't, I'm not going to switch him around. So I have to, I have to quench some of my visual inclinations in order to embrace his,

which is typical of most directors. But Guillermo is such a, he's such an artist himself. He's such a visual force that it's really a bit of a play with that. But I come in, I come into a project with that, with him knowing that. And there's certain things he's heavily involved in. And there's certain things he's like, just do it, Tamara, show me. I don't know what I want. Or, I mean, he always knows what he wants, but I don't know what I want to start with.

Let's just get, can you get the ball rolling? Or sometimes he'll have done some concepts for things and he's not happy with him in the end. He's like, just do something. So I can sort of scramble with my team and come up with something usually that he's very happy with. I mean, did he give you any specific direction early on? like what kind of, you know, even adjectives he was going for or, you know, once you started submitting ideas, what kind of things did he say to you in terms of that's the right direction we want to go or actually I'm thinking more like this? You know, I find that with Guillermo, it's not speaking

in descriptors and words, it's speaking with images. So what I tend to do with him is I'll show him concepts or floor plans or illustrations or model views and get him to respond to it and likewise he'll show me a painting or an early illustration that he's done or he's had guy Davis who's his longstanding concept artists do that's our starting point and then we'll tweak I mean it's not like we don't speak but we really speak in a individual language and it's an exchange of images. And I'll often be there with either, it used to be paper and a big marker so he could circle things and X things. And now I sort of trained him a little bit to use my iPad with my stylus. And he's gone from like, you know, okay, draw this, draw this. And then he'll grab my

stylist and he'll like this, this, this. So that's how we communicate. It's more like artist to artist than anything, which is very, it's very easy for me because I just work in a visual language. So that shared visual literacy gets us going. Like on Frankenstein, for example, we were trying to figure out the color palette. And we were at the same time, very early on, we were scouting locations in Scotland. And then at one point, Guillermo turned to me. We had sort of been, wow, look at this stone, look at this moss, look at this wet cobblestone. And then we were inside interiors for the Frankenstein family villa.

And it was like, look at this marble. look at this wood, this, this, this mosaic pattern on the floor. And then, you know, he turned to me and he was like, this is it. This is our color palette. And the forest sort of became the creature's color palette. And these stones and marbles became the Frankenstein family color palette. And then the Edinburgh color palette was a no-brainer. It was, you know, it was the wet cobblestones. It was Edinburgh as Edinburgh in our story. So, you know, things evolve. And I think, you know, on something like Frankenstein again, I was lucky that he was still writing the screenplay while I started. So what we were finding as locations and what we were deciding would be studio

set builds could kind of evolve with the story, which is awesome if, you know, you can afford the time. Well, I noticed a color palette. Actually, that's really interesting. And then, of course, the use of red, various, you know, like his red, Victor's red gloves. I assume that was to evoke blood or may or maybe not well it's interesting sometimes he uses red um to evoke a certain innocence like he did that on on nightmare alley with the with molly the female character she wore a red jack and he's done that with um pan's labyrinth it's a signature color and it doesn't always mean blood it has different meetings for giermo and i i can't even speak to them because sometimes they surprised me. But it is a, it is an evocative color that he chooses very carefully to use as a visual

signifier. So in, in the instance of Victor, those were Victor's mother's gloves. I don't know if that was clear. And Victor's mother's bed was the red bed that we carried throughout the story that was this incredible constructed piece of furniture that we made. And Victor's mother, of course, was in a red costume. So that red was sort of of the mother womb red to me, and to Guillermo, it might signify a kind of a religious, have a religious implication with his Catholic upbringing. It's the umbilical cord. It's the pulse of blood that connects Victor to his, to his mother and then the blood of the creation of the creature, which, you know, in which we had these battery towers went from green to red.

And I mean, I could go on about the reds and have a totally different explanation than Guillermo would. You know, so I think it is open to your personal interpretation. And I think that partly is what he wants from the audience. At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear-off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do.

Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us, and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk. Business. Let's get back to my interview with Tamara Deverell. Well, so I want to ask you what, Victor, I mean, I have never seen a Frankenstein film. I think that is fleshed out.

It sounds like a bad pun, but is a flesh. Good pun. Good pun. Fleshed out, Victor, as a character so much. I mean, at one point somebody actually says, like, you're the real monster, or you've become the monster, you know, Victor. And it made me think a lot about how monsters are created. In this case, it could be through lots of things that, you know,

we really get to see his childhood in a way that I don't think I've ever seen before. How did you want to depict his character and his character arc through the production design? You know, in terms of developing his character, like it's his family house when he's a kid, but it's his lab and his world that he creates and his apartment, the first time we see him as an adult is in the medical lecturing hall. I felt like I did want to capture some of his personality. It was something that Gierin had wanted the theater in the round, which was typical of that time,

the medical lecturing theaters that had those tears and so on. And then his apartment, so when he leaves the medical lecturing theater, he goes to his apartment in Edinburgh, and that's sort of his first real place that is his own as an adult. With that, we were really like trying to put everything of what he had been studying, his work as a scientist, his work as a botanist, his work as a, you know, the books he read, the sketches he did, the sculpted anatomical waxes that he was working on. All of that was in there. And, you know, one of our biggest influences that Guillermo pointed us to for that was Bernie Wrightson, who's a graphic novelist, graphic design, graphic illustrator. who did a whole bunch of Frankenstein drawings, and we drew a lot from Bernie's drawings of Frankenstein's lab, these crazy hanging things, the tubes, the crazy science stuff,

but within a realm of some historical realness. Well, I noticed, too, the scale of the rooms, especially early on, I noticed how small he was sometimes in these giant rooms. And to me, that symbolized his ambition in terms of, again, the idea of trying to, trying to cheat death, trying to play God, trying to, you know, I will master this. But maybe, again, I'm reading into it. You might not be reading into it. There is a, there is a point to him feeling small in these spaces. But, you know, every set I've done, I swear, without exception, he's a gear more, I'll draw something happening as like 10 feet

deeper, 10 feet wider, 10 feet long, always long and narrow. And I think that, that is more a cinematic vision that he has of the scope of the film and to hell with realism because his Edinburgh apartment should have been the size of our bathrooms, you know, of our modern-day bathrooms. You know, Guillermo likes to have scope

and he likes to be able to swing a camera. So a lot of that is just in a way, logistic, practical moves on his part to get a space. And then it's all in the details. Like even the, you know, the bathroom we built It was huge.

I mean, it was like, they didn't have bathrooms back then. Those were a novelty item, and it was just a ginormous space. But, you know, again, it's hard to film in a closet. Yeah. There's also, too, I think, that 19th century decor, there's kind of a maximalist approach, where the more money you had, the more stuff you had. Yeah. So, I mean, that must have been fun to kind of research that and to pick and choose what you wanted in Victor's world.

Yeah. And like, Victor came from well. And we wanted to show that, that he was not, he was coddled. He was, you know, his father was a doctor. You know, the library that we chose for the father's study and library was this enormous room that we would never been filmed in before in some old house in Scotland. And we completely had to redo it. Actually kind of restore it to its original. It was, they were, the family was using it for kids' birthday parties and they were skateboarding it.

And it was just a nothing space, but it has scope. It was the kind of scope that Guillermo wanted to show, I think, the father is sort of, like, big in Victor, in Victor's world, his just, like, volumes of books and a giant ego in a giant space, kind of in terms of the father, a big presence in young Victor's life. Did you reread the novel as just for inspiration? Yeah. Yeah. What did you find in the novel for inspiration? You know, the language, it's funny because the actual moment of creation is nothing in the novel. It's just, and you think about it is this big moment in the film and in all the preceding Frankenstein films.

But really in the novel, it's like, oh, and then the creature's there. So I didn't find that. But I do think that Guillermo really wanted to make, you know, to draw close to what Mary Shelley's world was. And I think he did, like of all the Frankensteins, I think he remained true to the smoky underbelly of Edinburgh, the just the ship, all the choices that we made, even though we, you know, the ship was a very different ship than what it was in the, in the novel, you know, became a Danish Navy vessel. It still has the right ambiance, I think. Well, let's talk about the lab. I mean, that is an iconic part of every Frankenstein story. What, in the

novel, is it set in an abandoned water tower? No. No. That was entirely Guillermo. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I thought. You know, he wanted the water tower. He wanted Medusa, who's sort of a misunderstood monster in many ways. He wanted the big Medusa head in there. And she's also connected to her water. And it's that myth of Perseus

and the Medusa that is sort of parallels so much of our story of men and monsters and men battling monsters and their inner monsters. Well, okay, Okay, so within the lab itself, what did you pull for for inspiration and reference in designing that lab? Well, the tower itself, when we were touring Scotland looking for locations, there were a number of towers. There was one in particular, which was the Wallace Tower that we, like, wow, this is our, it's not an abandoned water tower, but it was the right idea.

And we started sketching the tower on the cliff, which Giermore always had in his head. and we use the Wallace Tower, sort of the base structure. And then we found other elements, these big giant sort of scroll-like feet. We were at St. Stephen's Church in Edinburgh that we were scouting. But Guillermo just like, I love this architectural elements. We used that in the tower. And the whole thing was enormous. Like, it was, you know, it was ridiculously enormous for a municipal water tower is what it was,

that never opened. But it was good to have that because, like, I did things inside, like I had crests that were in Swiss with, you know, Wasser works. And, you know, we gave it a date stamp on it. We were able to introduce the whole Perseus Medusa theme, which had to do with the water and the tower. And part of it is just to have some fun with this incredible giant edifice in the middle of nowhere on the edge of a cliff. but part of it obviously suited the story and Guillermo could customize it to all the beats of what he wanted. The tower, the lab is built, it has a vortex that goes up,

that goes down, a water tower seemed to make sense. There was some basis for realness there for it to have this big vortex through it. Once we figured it was a water tower, we could connect all the pieces as he is putting together a story and the storyboards and make it all work somewhat smoothly, although there's things that we cheated that nobody will ever know. But, you know, certain walls don't correspond from the exterior to the interior, but it doesn't really matter.

That's so interesting that you came up with, I was going to ask you, if you came up with a whole backstory for the water tower, and you clearly had to, you know, to explain why anything was there. Yeah, for me, because it makes it real, you know, and I'm, you know, Guillermo is really great at hooking into the fantastical and just pushing, you know, out of this world. and I would like to anchor myself, which is, I think, why we're good, we work well together. I like to start with historic reality and real science and work out from there. So, you know, for me, it was a crash course on galvanism and the science of Victorian era, the Industrial Revolution, and the steam engines, you know, we had to create steam engines, we had to create these battery towers that, you know, you want the audience to believe,

being the these ginormous battery towers that they could actually exist. They could actually have these huge glass, acid-filled receptacles that light up and change. And smart cut spoke. And it's a real marriage of what's really real and what could be real and what is complete fantasy. And sometimes, you know, like some things in the lab, after I don't know how many versions, we had versions with mezzanese, versions with catwalks. And they were complex versions. Like, we spent a lot of time, like full 3D models of different versions.

And in the end, we just stripped it back. You know, we went like, no, no, this is working. And we were drowning in our own level of detail, of too much detail. And I stripped it back and I did one thing to the lab, which was to angle the upper walls in leading up to this vortex, which, of course, is a circle, but, you know, the walls are square. It was almost like a square room. And that was it.

We took away the mezzanase. We took up the frills and the froufrews and the this and that. We just did this one angled thing and bang it. That was, Gierman was like, that's it. That's it. It's alive. It's alive. It's alive.

It's alive. It's alive. Given how many times Frankenstein has been adapted to film, I asked Tamara, whether she wanted to avoid. looking at other Frankenstein films. Or did she watch them to make sure that she wasn't going to accidentally copy anything?

Oh, no, I looked at it to copy to, you know, if there was it, you know, there were like the original 1930s Frankenstein, you know, it has some great height in this crazy set they built and we were looking at that for sure, like, oh, is there,

you know, oh, we should have that height like that and I was like, oh, I get Guillermo with the height, the height thing, because at this crazy how I said. Like for the time, I was just like, wow, they really must have had huge studios. Or maybe it was just the way it was photographed. Yeah, you know, you look at those things. There's little, like sometimes you want to put Easter eggs in.

I mean, Guillermo's a big fan of that. And sort of pick and choose little things to kind of echo or emulate or honor. In this instance, the big window that we put in the lab was actually we, I did like, I don't know how many different. types of windows, you know, proposing these different looks to Guillermo. After like 20 versions, Guillermo went, you know, I would like to do the window we did in Crimson Peak, which was designed by Tom Sanders, who's unfortunately died far too young, very talented designer. And I went, oh, okay. And I love that, you know.

So I was able to kind of honor Tom, you know, it's sort of emotional to do that. I mean, the window that I'm referring to in crimson speak is maybe this big. Right, this big you look like about the size of your head. Well, it was like maybe three feet or something. It was not the size that we had. And that's an Easter egg that's sort of Guillermo's personal, you know, self-reflective Easter egg, which he likes to do, which is always fun. It's funny because I did notice lots of curves and circular shapes.

I mean, it makes sense now when I think about his previous films. I was, again, not sure about reading too much into it. But to me, I thought about things that are organic as opposed to things that are man-made or more hard-edged. So that was kind of one of my thoughts in terms of all the sort of all the round curved structures and shapes. Yeah, Guillermo loves arches and curves and circles and I just like I naturally now go to it. The creatures sell with the vaulted ceilings, which of course is just a mathematical orgasm of curves and stuff like it's just like it was crazy designing that. I mean, the woman who did the set design on it, Jane Stochco, is amazing that she could wrap her head around it because I couldn't even.

I was just, I knew I'd always wanted to do vaulted ceilings and that Guillermo loved vaulted ceilings and we had been looking at the Glasgow University had these courtyards with vaulted ceilings and all these other locations and, again, curves, organic shapes, as you were saying, that very much is a theme. The circular notion of the story of and framing our world. Well, also themes of life and death, you know, in terms of that's a constant, you know, constantly comes up in the movie. Was that, was the lab the hardest part of the movie or was there another part of the movie of the production that turned out to be even harder than you anticipated? The lab was certainly one of the most difficult sets to build just because of, you know, the wide table the creature was on that had moving parts.

you know, we called it the Y crucifix, you know, that actually physically moved. I thought that by way, when you mentioned his Catholic, you know, upbringing, I noticed that how much it looked like a crucifix. Oh, yeah, totally intentional, very intentional. So, yeah, the lab had a lot of moving parts. The ship was definitely a big learning curve for all of us because, you don't, I mean, I've always wanted to design a ship at doing the, you know, an Arctic sailing vessel, an Arctic exploration vessel. But it also moved. The whole thing was built on a giant gimbal. So it's not the

effects that makes it rock actually physically as physical effects to rock that entire ship. You know, I'm just figuring out the size and then putting it in the Arctic landscape, which, you know, of course was a lot of the effects, but we built a giant Arctic ice field around the ship. All built on a parking lot in Toronto. Wow. So how much in conversation are you with a costume designer? Because I felt like it all flowed together as one visual palette. You know, working with Kate Hawley was one of the best things for me on the movie. We immediately connected and we were very much joined at the hip. The color palettes, the color conversations, even without Guillermo, like even before we'd go to Guillermo, Kate and I would talk about things so that we came as a united, like, okay, here's we're going to have. of Elizabeth coming in this green dress and, you know, particularly not use that in the set she enters so she can be at the focus of attention. And then sometimes you want them to be

connected. That was all so carefully and beautifully and artistically thought out with Kate, who is an amazing artist. I can't see enough. It was such a pleasure working with her. I noticed with Elizabeth, the stitchwork in the back of her dress looked like a spine. Yes, very much so. Yeah, Kate just pushes. it, you know, and comes up with these things, and of course, Guillermo loves. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Frankenstein's been retold so many times, you know, and yet it always seems timeless. Do you have any thoughts in terms of, you know, why tell the story again today? Why, why does it, you know, when you were working on it, what are the moments that you felt, wow, that feels so relevant

for this movie to be coming out now? Well, I think for me, it's exactly that. Men is Monsters. And we are monsters in, you know, the hunters hunting and shooting this innocent deer and the creature sort of like, oh my God, why? Like, to me, that was a pivotal moment. And I think the creature, you know, this idea of creating something that is natural, the creature is of nature, of parts of natural human beings. And it's so connected more to nature. Like, I think that was one part of the film that really spoke to me, that he, he, he,

is not man, he is nature, and we're trying to snub him, and we're trying to create and kill him. We think we're all powerful, and it's like what we're doing to our planet. There are certain environment, in a weird way, environmental themes. And the themes about, like, Elizabeth is obviously sort of the voice of reason as a woman, as the only woman in the movie outside of the mother, interesting choice for Guillermo that is played, the same actress plays both roles. And he connects that sort of the mother figure to the girlfriend figure, that she's the voice of reason. She's like, why do we send these men our young men to war? Like, what is this world that we've created of that it's nonsense? She's what calls Victor on it. I did not realize that was Mia Goth as the

mother. Good. I did not realize that until you said that. Wow. So summing up, I mean, is there, you know, what do you think for somebody who's watching the film coming into it cold, not knowing anything. I mean, what do you, what do you want them to feel? You know, what were some of the takeaways you would want them to have even from just the production design and the feel, you know, because it's, it's so visual and people feel sometimes the visuals are overwhelming, but then people aren't sure what kind of language to use to describe what it is they just experienced. It was so handmade. You know, I don't know if you saw Guillermo's comment about I wanted to hear hammers hammering and plastering and, you know, we, like,

that's to me the remarkable takeaway for me is how much artistry and modeling and painting and just the human touch went into that into the making of the film like the furniture like the embroidery like we we actually like people's hands were bleeding making the parts of the movie so for me visually like anything that's that's handcrafted has a certain excellence that you just don't get and you you you you We're getting it less and less with the introduction of AI and, you know, CAD. I mean, we use those things. Don't get me wrong, but everything in the end was so laboriously hand-painted and sculpted

handcrafted, that I hope people see that, and that's a takeaway for them of, you know, the talents of us as a human collective to create. And morally, I think the story of men playing gods and men's egos, interfering with the natural world is those are real you know moral lessons themes now it was written by an 18 year old woman you know this is this story has has punch you know so part of the amazement for me is is just that Mary Shelley created this crafted this legend which is which it was so like it's so lasting the themes and the the science of it so pretty remarkable that way are you do you have any plans to work with Giamma

Toro again soon or is he ever went to the next time he comes up to you and just says at a party like, you know, in an ominous voice, the next project you're working on. I'm waiting for that moment. I know it's coming. It's a partnership. We're very different people, but

somehow we were in sync. So, yeah, I would work with Guillermo again only because he's an artist. You know, there's not a lot. I've worked with a lot of different directors and they like to think they're artists, but, you know, they're just, they're not. They're storytellers. And that's a feat into it in and of itself. But, you know, for somebody who works as a production

design, to have the opportunity to work with somebody who's a director and an artist is a real treat. That is it for this week. Thank you for listening. Special thanks to Tamara Deverell. My assistant producer is Stephanie Billman. We have another podcast called Between Imaginary Worlds. It's a more casual chat show. that's only available to listeners who pledge on Patreon. In the most recent episode, I talked with Jonathan Stark. He writes game books, which are like a combination of role-playing games and choose your own adventure books.

The best writing, you're never truly passive, even if it's not a game book. You are engaging with the ideas. You're engaging with the characters. You're engaging with the notions. You are, I think, all of us kind of do ask that question in a good book. What would I have done? The fact that the game book can take it to, even deeper level, where you truly are in the story, I just think is something that shouldn't go away.

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