Imaginary Worlds - Doctor Who?

Episode Date: January 25, 2018

We don't know his real name. We don't know who he was before he stole the TARDIS -- a spaceship/time machine that looks like a police box on the outside, but is really a cavernous ship on the inside. He's thousands of years old, but wears a different face every few years. He calls himself The Doctor, but Doctor who? In the first of my three-part series, I look at how a restless intergalactic time traveller became a global pop culture icon, and why The Doctor's knack for physical regeneration resonates with fans on a more personal level. Featuring Andy Heidel, Nick Randell, Robin Bunce, Mac Rogers, Emily Asher-Perrin, Riley Silverman and Kelsey Jefferson Barrett. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You're listening to Imaginary Worlds, a show about how we create them and why we suspend our disbelief. I'm Eric Malinsky. There's a bar called The Way Station, which is close to my apartment in Brooklyn. And from the outside, it looks like a normal bar. But when you go in, something pops out at you. A blue police box, the kind that you would see all over London in the 1960s. The blue police box, the kind that you would see all over London in the 1960s.

Every day I open up the shutters and I see her sitting in the corner and it's just like, I feel at home. That is the owner of the bar, Andy Heidel, who is a huge Doctor Who fan. And even if you've never watched Doctor Who, you probably know that blue police box has something to do with it. Also, if you walk in the bar, you might notice Doctor Who is playing in the back wall pretty much all the time. Usually an episode for the mid-2000s when David Tennant played the Doctor. Every fan has their favorite actor to play the Doctor, and

Tennant is Andy's favorite. He's actually my favorite, too. And nobody can say I'm sorry like Tennant. If I'm dying, I'm on my deathbed, my Make-A-Wish foundation is for him to come and tell me I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I am so, so sorry. So going back to that police box. On the show, it's a ship called the TARDIS, which looks like a police box on the outside,

but that's an optical illusion meant to disguise the giant cavernous spaceship on the inside. And it's a running gag on the show where every time a new character walks through those blue wooden doors expecting to find themselves in a confined space, and they say something like, But it's huge! It's bigger inside than out. You know, it's actually bigger inside than it is on the outside. I know, I know. Now, the TARDIS at the bar is actually the entrance to a unisex bathroom,

which is not as exciting as a spaceship that can go back in time, but it's still an optical illusion. Oh, my God. So on the inside here, I'm in the bathroom here. I see a painting of Weeping Angels. There are paintings of Doctor Who characters all over the walls. And there's an autograph from Matt Smith, who played the Doctor after David Tennant. Matt Smith actually came to the Waystation bar with the showrunner Stephen Moffat when they were promoting Doctor Who in the U.S.

They were in town doing publicity for his season finale, and the hotel didn't have BBC America. So they went on Twitter and they're like, is anybody showing it? And everybody tweeted, it's like, go to the way station. And they stayed and watched the season finale with everybody. And I look at the TARDIS, then I look at Matt Smith and I watch Matt Smith watch himself on TV as the doctor walking into the TARDIS. And it was just mind blowing. And then did Matt Smith go to the bathroom? And then he did. It was the circle of life. Now in the United States, Doctor Who has

always been a cult show, but it's a whole different story in the UK. In the United Kingdom, Doctor Who is kind of part of our national culture. So there are various things which unite us as a nation, one of which is the National Health Service, I think, and to some extent the Royal Family. But Doctor Who is one of those things. Robin Bunce teaches history and culture at the University of Cambridge. I think the Doctor is essentially he's a modern day Sherlock Holmes. So he's kind of based on a particular type of British male hero type figure. And he's also to some extent the gentleman explorer and that also is hardwired into British culture as well, to some extent. So there's a lot of Britishness bound up in this apparently alien hero. It's the jewel in the BBC's crown. I mean, they will make a point if they're ever talking about

their Christmas offerings for this year. Doctor Who will always be referred to probably first in the list. Nick Randall is a studio manager at the BBC and a massive Doctor Who fan. He's actually going to pop up throughout this miniseries to help give us the UK perspective. And he says the entrance to the BBC also has a prop version of the TARDIS police box. And every night as I walk out and I grab my paper and I walk out of the building, I just look over there thinking, I wish it was real. I wish I could just pop in and just run around that huge room. I feel the was real. I wish I could just pop in and just run around that huge room. I feel the same way.

I mean, I didn't start watching Doctor Who until the fall, after friends and listeners had been urging me for years to check it out. And I had never watched it because I was intimidated. I mean, I knew that the Doctor Who mythology is so dense. The show has such a long history, it can be hard for casual viewers to just jump in. But once I got the hang of it, I couldn't believe how quickly I fell in love with the show.

I mean, I felt like my imagination was on fire with these new characters and storylines that I had never imagined before. But if you've never watched the show and you're still totally confused what this is, let's zoom out and look at the big picture. The original run of Doctor Who was on the BBC from 1963 to 1989. There was a made-for-TV movie in 1996 that was supposed to reboot Doctor Who, but it didn't take. Finally, in 2005, Doctor Who returned to the BBC, led by a writer named Russell T. Davies. Now, Davies had been a Doctor Who fan as a kid, but he felt the show needed a modern feel to it. He also really admired the Joss Whedon style of

storytelling, where fantasy tropes are used as metaphors to explore very relatable human experiences. Davies left the show years ago, but it's his version of Doctor Who that is still on the air. And it wasn't a complete reboot. The events that happened going back to 1963 when Doctor Who went on the air are all still part of this character's backstory. You see, the Doctor is an alien who lives for thousands of years. And we don't actually know his real name. He calls himself the Doctor. The title of the show is a question.

Who are you? The Doctor. Doctor who? No, just the Doctor. Actually, sorry, could you just ask me that again? Could I what? Could you just ask me that question again? Doctor who?

Okay, just once more. Doctor who? Oh, yeah. Oh. me that question again. Dr. Who. Okay, just once more. Dr. Who. Oh, yeah. I never realized how much I enjoy hearing that said out loud. Thank you. Okay. We really only know a few facts about the doctor's backstory. We know that he's from a planet called Gallifrey, which is run by time lords that look human, but they have a vastly superior intelligence and they can travel in time and space to bear witness to history. The other thing about the Time Lords is that while they have very long lifespans, their bodies actually don't last that long. So whenever the

Doctor dies trying to save the world, he regenerates into a new human form, and thus a new actor is playing the Doctor. And it's that idea of regeneration which hooked me on the show because it is a brilliant narrative device. And you probably heard the big news that in the season finale last year, the Doctor regenerated for the first time into a woman. Jodie Whittaker will start her first full season as the Doctor in the fall. There's also going to be a new showrunner. So once again, Doctor Who is at a crossroads. After more than 54 years of TV episodes, movies, audio dramas, comic books, novels,

the entire franchise is going to regenerate all over again. And I think regeneration is the key to why Doctor Who has been a global icon for more than half a century. I mean, yes, of course, the show can keep regenerating to keep up with the times, but I think there may be something more personal to this theme of regeneration, something that makes the Doctor resonate with fans no matter when or where they discover the show. So sit back and relax, because we have a long journey ahead through space and time. Before I start, I should say that this mini-series is going to be full of spoilers because some of the best moments in the show's history are just too interesting to ignore. But if you want to do a deep binge before you listen,

the contemporary Doctor Who is streaming on Amazon and the classic series is streaming on BritBox. So let's begin today in 1966. The show is popular. It's a black and white children's show, airing on Saturdays. The Doctor is played by William Hartnell. He was in his late 50s at the time, but he seemed a lot older. And he played the Doctor like a Victorian schoolmaster, clutching his lapels, making pronouncements with a little twinkle in his eye. You see, there's something over there that might be the solution to all this business. Oh, what's that?

A telephone, my dear. But there was a problem. William Hartnell's health was deteriorating. He couldn't keep up with the schedule of modern television, and he was flubbing his lines. Did you, did you, did you? Hmm? One thing after another. So the producers made a tough choice, or at least we hope it was a tough choice.

They decided to fire William Hartnell and bring in another actor to play the doctor. We can imagine what that moment was like because it was actually dramatized in a made-for-TV movie that the BBC produced to celebrate the show's 50th anniversary in 2013. William Hartnell was played by David Bradley, and Brian Cox played the show's first producer, Sidney Newman. We've got great plans for Doctor Who, Bill. Believe you me, great plans. I'm, uh...

We're 100% committed to it. Very glad to hear it. But we're looking at ways of refreshing it. Regenerating it. Well, yes. Quite right. Spice things up a bit. Bill.

I'm glad we're on the same wavelength anyway. Oh, hell, Bill. There's no easy way of saying this. We want Doctor Who to go on. Yes. But not with you. Like you said, things have

got to change. I see. Nick Randall, who works at the BBC today, still can't get over the way they recast The Doctor. Because if I was a TV producer, and my lead actor was forgetting his lines and he wasn't

well and you know he was getting on a bit but the show was proving popular i would either can the show think of another science fiction show that would cover similar bases but would be different or if i was going to recast i would either get somebody who looked as close as as william hartnell did and put the wig on and all the rest of it I mean the thing when we talk about regeneration rejuvenation I would imagine perhaps a younger version of the same actor so somebody who looked like a young William Hartnell I wouldn't try to think of getting an actor who looked like looked nothing like him at all not even pretending to look anything like him and and also to encourage him to play it in such a different way

but that is what happened when patrick trouton became the second actor to play the doctor i was wondering where that had got to so i think that is so outrageously bonkers, but it's brilliant. It is the Doctor I knew it is, I think. It's not only his face that's changed, he doesn't even act like him. And so a pattern emerged. The character actor would be cast as the Doctor. He would take the character in whatever direction he wanted,

unless the showrunner had other ideas. And when the actor got tired of the role, or he was worried that he was being too closely associated with it, he'd move on. In the classic series, a regeneration would typically have the Doctor lying down, and then they'd crossfade to the next actor in the same clothes, in the same position. In the modern series, the regenerations are much more dramatic. But either way, a new Doctor emerges and looks at his face in the mirror. Like here's Tom Baker when he began his run as the fourth Doctor. A new body is like a new house. Takes a little bit of time to settle in.

Have to take the rough with the smooth. Mind you, I think the nose is a definite improvement. That transition can be hard for young fans. When Robin Bunce was a kid, he loved Tom Baker's Doctor. And since Robin's father worked at the BBC, he got them behind-the-scenes access. But as I was leaving the set, Tom Baker strode on and he was in costume. And he looked and sounded every inch of the doctor. And he asked me my name and he asked me if I wanted a jelly baby.

For American listeners, a jelly baby is similar to a Sour Patch Kid. And by the way, that's something that Tom Baker's doctor would do on the show all the time. Offer people jelly babies out of the blue. Would you like a jelly baby? Would you like a jelly baby? Would you like a Jelly Baby? Would you like a Jelly Baby? Shut up! And then Tom Baker left. No more Jelly Babies, no more floppy hat, no more ridiculously long scarf. The next actor to play the doctor, Peter Davison, had wispy blonde hair and dressed like a gentleman about to play cricket.

I wondered if that was traumatic for Robin. Oh, enormously. Yes, enormously. In fact, I didn't watch the show for two years after that. To this day, I've never forgiven Peter Davison for not being Tom Baker. And really, the trauma of my life is that as a young man, I used to look a bit like Peter Davison. So when people discovered I was a Doctor Who fan, they say, oh yeah, and of course you look like Peter Davison,

which is exactly the wrong thing to say to me. But I started wondering what do all these different versions of the character have in common? I mean, other than the fact that they've been mostly white British men,

they look nothing alike. We don't know anything about the Doctor's backstory, so how is this even a single consistent character? Well, there's a famous quote that a lot of writers and actors refer to about how to create the Doctor. And it comes from Terence Dix,

who was one of the most prolific writers in the history of Doctor Who. And he said, quote, The Doctor never gives in and never gives up, however overwhelming the odds against him. The Doctor believes in good and fights evil, The playwright Mac Rogers recaps Doctor Who for the website Slate. And when he was a kid, Mac says that's why the Doctor was an inspiration for him. I hadn't realized how much I was hungering for someone who wasn't an action hero, for someone who was more of like a hero through intellect and through joking. But Mack says that there's an interesting question about the Doctor, a certain ambivalence

towards his heroism, which is baked into the format of the show. Is the Doctor on a quest to fight evil or not? Are his adventures part of a quest or are they just an epic series of failed attempts to go on holiday? The Doctor is fundamentally a troubleshooter. The Doctor comes in and averts crises. The Doctor is never there to build the better system that might need to come after the crisis has been averted. Because he can't. That would destroy the concept of the show, is that you're in a different place. Every single episode, you're in a new world. You're in a new story.

In fact, this issue gets brought up in the 2005 episode, The Christmas Invasion. Aliens invade the Earth. The Doctor, played by David Tennant, convinces them to leave. But as the aliens are flying away, the Prime Minister, Harriet Jones, orders them to be blown out of the sky. The Doctor is horrified. That was murder. That was defense. It's adapted from alien technology. A ship that fell to Earth ten years ago. But they were leaving! You said yourself, Doctor, they'd go back to the stars and tell others about the Earth.

I'm sorry, Doctor, but you're not here all the time. You come and go. It happened today. Mr. Llewellyn and the Major. They were murdered. They died right in front of me while you were sleeping. In which case, we have to defend ourselves. The Doctor's relationship with the human race is sometimes like a step-parent who really wants to impress us. I mean, we're his favorite species. But then he can flip around and deliver these really harsh lectures about why we're not living up to our potential.

And Mack thinks this aspect of the doctor's personality also emerged from the format of the show because Doctor Who was originally a children's show. I think at a certain point, the doctor very often needs to spell out the moral of the story because where adult critical faculties might tease out that moral from the actions of the story, children don't always necessarily bring that same from the actions of the story. Children don't always necessarily bring that same level of analysis to a story. I think very often in children's books, you see like a literal verbal explaining of the message of the story. So I sometimes think that's an external consideration. And sometimes I think the doctor is just genuinely really arrogant because he spends almost his entire life around less smart people.

He very rarely bumps into someone who shares his intellect. I do think that there is a little bit of a smart guy's power fantasy there. There's the aspect of like, you know, we always talk about the male power fantasy. It's like, you know, big guys. This is the beta male power fantasy? Right, exactly. It kind of is, especially, I mean, if you talk about the male power fantasy. It's like, you know, big guys. This is the beta male power fantasy? Right, exactly. It kind of is, especially, I mean, if you're like a nerdy lady, you've had guys do, I mean, I've had guys come up and try to explain Doctor Who at me, which is hilarious because I'm

like, you're doing, you're just sort of aping your favorite character. You're doing what he does. Emily Asher Perrin works for the website Tor, and she wrote a really interesting essay where she argued that if you look at the whole arc of the series, the regenerations aren't random based on whatever actor was available at the time. She thinks the character of the doctor has taken on a life of his own, and his regenerations are part of a long process in which he's been trying to improve himself, to change not randomly, but for the better. And since we have a time machine here, let's go back to that moment in 1966, when Patrick Troughton took over the role of the doctor from the first actor who played him, William Hartnell. You sort of get the impression that William Hartnell's doctor was a little fusty and he had very specific ideas of how things needed to be done.

And maybe he thought, you know, I could stand to be a little bit looser. He changes it up. And very interestingly, you get this sort of weird, goofy guy with a haircut that's supposed to be reminiscent of the Beatles, which is strange. But you get someone with a bigger sense of humor. The doctor was a great collector, wasn't he? But you're the doctor. Why don't you look back again?

Who are we? Don't you know? But the second doctor, played by Patrick Troughton, is too much of a rebel. He is forced to regenerate as a punishment by his superiors on the planet Gallifrey. So the third Doctor, played by John Pertwee, is all business. Sort of, maybe you need to be a little bit more of a leader and stop messing around, you know, behind the scenes, like actually take some responsibility. Thing is, Doctor, is there anything I can do?

Yes, pass me a silicon, Robbie. Yes, what I meant was, is there anything that UNIT can do about this space lightning business? Lightning? But this brings up another question that all the doctors are wrestling with. I mean, the character is lonely. He's an alien. He never stays in one place very long. So he likes to have people travel with him on the TARDIS. But how close should he get to these people?

Should he hide things from them for their own safety? And if they get killed, is that his fault? Emily says this question came to a crisis with the fifth doctor, played by Peter Davison, who had a gaggle of companions. The fifth doctor had so much tragedy before he regenerated. He had all of these companions on the TARDIS, and he clearly liked having a big crew. And then they all left him, usually in traumatizing circumstances. A lot of good people have died today.

I think I'm sick of it. You think I wanted it this way? No, no, don't leave. Not like this. I must. I'm sorry. And so he regenerates in this position of really feeling like he's not a good person to be around. Like he's kind of a really unlucky penny. And so he regenerates into the much maligned sixth doctor, played by Colin Baker. And the sixth doctor is incredibly pompous and he seems sort of arrogant.

And the doctor's still in there and he's still wonderful. But also, he's very clearly scarred by what happened previously. Your former self was polite enough. At such a cost, I was on the verge of becoming neurotic. We all have to repress our feelings from time to time. I suggest you get back into the habit. And I would suggest, Perry, that you wait a little before criticizing my new persona. Whatever else happens, I am the Doctor, whether you like it or not. A lot of people didn't like it, and looking back, that really was the beginning of the end for the classic series. When the show came back in 2005

with Christopher Eccleston playing the Doctor. The writers gave him a surprisingly dark backstory, which plays into these two questions as to whether he wants to be a hero or just a traveler and how close he should get to people. We learn that while the show was off the air, the Doctor's home planet, Gallifrey, went to war with their arch-nemesis, an alien species called the Daleks. To save the universe from being sucked into this all-consuming war, the doctor ignited a doomsday device that killed the Daleks and his own people.

And then the ninth doctor is born out of PTSD. And he is very broken and very wounded and very hurt, and he doesn't know how to handle any of his emotions because he regenerated out of you know what he thinks was genocide double genocide what about your people i'm a time lord i'm the last of the time lords they're all gone i'm the only survivor the doctor takes on a new companion a working working class girl named Rose, played by Billy Piper. But when he goes to find a companion, the first thing that he does is take her to see the destruction of her planet.

He wants to know if she can really shoulder the burden the way that he's having to shoulder it. And if she can, then she's probably the perfect companion. And what happens? He takes her out of the TARDIS after showing her all that, and he wants to know how she's going to react. And her first reaction is, I want to eat chips. And that's it. It's perfect. She's exactly what he needs at that point in time. Right then, before you get me back in that box, chips it is, and you can pay. No money. What sort of date are you?

And then the doctor does something very unusual, probably because he's feeling more emotionally vulnerable than ever. He falls in love with his companion. But what happens all the time, people keep saying, he's a little bit older for you. He's a little bit too much. This is not really a good idea. He looks like he's in his 40s and you're 20. And he regenerates into the perfect person for her.

No one will ever say he's too old again. They look like a pair. He also apes her accent, which I think is precious. Oh, my God. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Because I was wondering why Tennant picked that accent. Yes.

I was dying to save my own life. I changed my body. Every single cell cell but still me you can't be then how could i remember this very first word i ever said to you i said one word just one word i said run Run. Doctor. Hello. The Doctor and Rose end up separated for reasons that I won't go into, but he never really gets over that loss.

The next Doctor, the 11th Doctor, played by Matt Smith, is quirky and fun, but he's very much repressing his emotions. And after he loses companions that he cares about, we finally get the 12th Doctor, played by Peter Capaldi, who is really grumpy because he feels everything that he's been repressing for the last three incarnations. I'm not trying to win. I'm not doing this because I want to beat someone. It's not because it's fun. God knows it's not because it's easy. It's not even because it works, because it hardly ever does. I do what I do because it's right.

Because it's decent. And above all, it's kind. The doctor finally comes to peace with himself, and you can feel the show sort of come full circle again. But he also senses that his mansplaining or alien-splaining is getting kind of tiresome. And with that thought, he regenerates into a woman. And Jodie Whittaker's reaction when she sees her reflection for the first time is priceless. Oh, brilliant.

In case you didn't catch that, she said in a Yorkshire accent, Ah, brilliant. In case you didn't catch that, she said in a Yorkshire accent, Ah, brilliant. Now, the symbolism of the Doctor's gender change has not been lost on transgender fans, like Riley Silverman, who's a stand-up comedian in Los Angeles. Back in 2013, when Riley was just beginning her transition, still not sure if she should ask her friends to call her by female pronouns. At the time, it was kind of like, hey, it'd be cool if you did this, but I was like still timid about asking for it, like as a thing that I demanded to have happen.

But she had an epiphany when she was watching Matt Smith's doctor grapple with his identity as he faced his final minutes in that body. We all change when you think about it. We are all different people all through our lives. And that's okay. That's good. You've got to keep moving so long as you remember all the people that you used to be. And that line really stuck out to me as this idea of like, oh, we change as life goes on. And like, I can transition. And it doesn't mean that I wasn't myself before. It just means like I'm putting on this new face

that better reflects who I am inside. But in the next episode, the new doctor, played by Peter Capaldi, is having a rough time, which spoke to all of Riley's fears about how her friends would react to her changing. The doctor has been traveling with a companion named Clara, but not for that long. And Clara is having a lot of trouble accepting that this new doctor is the same person she'd been traveling with before. And she almost leaves him because of it.

And the doctor says to Clara, like, I'm standing right in front of you and you can't see me. Do you know how hard that is? Just see me. You can't see me, can you? You look at me and you can't see me. Do you have any idea what that's like? And that line made me sob. Like, it is just, it was like right to the heart of how I felt. Of like, oh, you, people look at me and they don't see me.

And I still think about that a lot. Because, you know, I'm transitioning, but it's not perfect and it's not exact. You know, it's a process. But the idea that at the end of this cycle that I've had, we actually have a female doctor. So the doctor has transitioned with me. Whoever gets a chance to have their favorite show go through a major life event with you, completely separate from you. Here is another example of the show being an inspiration to a transgender fan. Again, here's Emily Asher Perrin.

I fell in love with my husband who is trans based on our love of watching the show while we were in college. Emily and her husband, Kelsey, were roommates at Sarah Lawrence College. Back then, Kelsey was identifying as a woman. They fell in love with Dr. Who together, but it took them years to admit that they were falling in love with each other too. We were one of those people who we were always really annoyed. Everyone's like, you're just dating, right? Here's Kelsey.

And all of our friends were just like, why would you hide it? Why are you lying to us? This is the most liberal, welcoming school you could possibly be in. And we're like, no, no, we're just friends. But they were right and we were wrong. Now, the big romance of the modern series is between the 10th Doctor, played by David Tennant, and his companion, Rose.

Now, from the start, Emily felt a very strong identification with Rose. And Kelsey wanted to emulate David Tennant's doctor, who had these really dashing pinstripe suits, long swishy coats, and spiked hair. I definitely was sporting that same haircut for a while. You kind of still are. Yeah, I kind of still am. In 2010, Emily and Kelsey cosplayed as the doctor and Rose at San Diego Comic-Con. It was one of the first times that Kelsey felt comfortable occupying a male identity in public. And one of the reasons why is because his costume was a huge hit. And it was all over the internet for a while. And I remember seeing comments on a picture of me. And the comment was, I don't know if this is a guy or a girl,

but I'm really into it. And I was just like, hey, yeah, like, yes, like, I can be the doctor, like not as a costume, not as, but as, you know, someone who is a man and sort of has a right to the space and to identifying in that manner. And did you tell what did Emily say when you told her that this is, you know, this is how I felt from this experience? When I when I just showed her the picture, I was like, isn't this great? And she was like, that is great. That's kind of something you want, isn't it? And I was like, yeah, I think it is. That conversation can be really hard for some couples.

I mean, Emily would have reacted the same way whether she was a Doctor Who fan or not. But Doctor Who gave them a language to explore what was going to happen next in their relationship. She was like, well, you know, it's kind of like regeneration. You know, it's kind of like you were nine and now you're going to become ten. And I'm going to miss nine, but ten is sort of who you were always supposed to be. And I was like, yeah, and someone I could only be because of you. I mean, none of us get to live as long as the doctor or get that many second chances at life.

But we try our best as we go through time and space at our own speed, in one direction, forward. And the doctor is always happiest when he or she is accepting change instead of fighting it. And I feel that way too, as I keep trying to be a better version of myself. And so does Emily. I think that the doctor is very much,

is a perfect cipher for what it means to get older and to constantly have shifting ideas. And that I also think is a really useful thing that the doctor provides people, the ability to understand that it's okay to shift and change, which I think a lot of people think of as a scary or a bad thing. He's sort of advocating the idea that change is good and that you should want to be different

people in your life because that means that you're evolving. Now, the doctor's companions go through their own regeneration traveling with him. And it may not be a literal transformation, but the change is no less profound. In other words, next time on Imaginary World's Doctor Who. Travel does broaden the mind. Yes. You know, if I felt he could definitely get me back for tea. You just want two mates.

I just want a mate. And I'm still to this day heartbroken about what happened to her at the end. I think it's the worst thing I've done to a companion on that show. And I've seen companions die.

Don't forget me. Sarah, don't you forget me. That is it for this week. Thank you for listening. Special thanks to Nick Randall, Emily Asher Perrin, Robin Bunce, Kelsey Jefferson Barrett, Mac Rogers, Riley Bunce, Kelsey Jefferson-Barratt,

Mac Rogers, Riley Silverman, and Stephanie Billman. Imaginary Worlds is part of the Panoply Network, and if you're excited about this mini-series, please share it online. You can like Imaginary Worlds on Facebook, I tweet at emalinski, and my website is imaginaryworldspodcast.org.