IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Choose Your Creative Path with Erika Alexander and Kim Coles

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

On today’s episode, actresses, activists and fellow podcasters Erika Alexander and Kim Coles join the show! They go deep on their childhoods, share what it was like behind the scenes of Living Single, and discuss how Hollywood has (and hasn’t) changed in recent years. Plus, Erika shares a surprising revelation she had with a psychic.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I got in my car and I sobbed like a baby because I realized I had not accepted my fate. And I cried for 20 minutes straight where I said, you are an actress. Was it tears of joy? Were you happy about it? No. It was tears of recognition and worthy. Yeah. You just maybe suppressed that I couldn't believe. Yeah. That you were you.

Yeah. And maybe my own expectations were. were not to be an actress, to be a scientist, or something much more legitimate. Yeah. And yet this is my life. Yeah. And I have to say, stop running for it, accept it. You're here and you're doing well.

I mean, it's not easy, but I was made for it. This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Colagard. Hi, Craig Robinson. I haven't seen you in a second. I know. I know. We have gotten into a good. cadence with these and then all of a sudden, boom.

Yeah, yeah. Two months go by, I feel like I haven't seen you. Yeah. You are just getting back from more basketball tournaments, the endless slog of AAU. We had our final event down in Orlando. So final meaning. Final for the summer. Final for the summer.

Thank you. Thank you. 15 and 13, we've got another five years of this. So they were at a tournament? They were at the last tournament of the summer. summer and both of their teams played really well. They played well. And you know me. I treat these as business trips, not as vacations. So it's usually no pool, poor Austin and Aaron. No late nights. Why? Why? Because you're just trying to instill some discipline. You're trying to,

you're trying to have them ready for the nine o'clock game. Boo for you. But this time. So they're in Orlando. They can't swim in the pool. This time I acquiesced and I was like, you know what, guys? you've had a good year, you've worked hard. Oh my God, you're crazy. Go ahead, jump in the pool. Jump in the pool, have fun, stay up late. But you know, it was really interesting. What was really interesting is, you remember when I talked a while ago about going on

these trips and staying in an Airbnb? Yeah. There's like four or five families now that are, they were like, oh, that's a good idea because we had them over for ours. Yeah, yeah. So you guys stayed in an Airbnb. you had a whole house? It felt like everybody had a whole.

There we go. Airbnb. Everybody's catching on. It's like go get your Airbnb, B&B, because you had a pool at your Airbnb that you didn't let the kids use except for once. And the convenience of not having to pay for food and beverage everywhere you go. Well, that's good. I'm just glad that you let those boys swim. I am too. I am too. You know what? I'm easing up in my old age. Yeah, you should. You really should. But we need to do a podcast on. You need to ease up.

You know, you got some lives. You got jokes. I thought we had the comedians on as guests. Well, we've got a great, exciting show. Oh, I just can't like, I mean, I mean, you watch Living Single, right? Am I breathing black and of female? It's like, yes, yes. All the crew. Man. And, you know, you and I didn't get to live single like that. We went to college.

We had roommates in college. But then once we got out of college, we both lived on our own. And when that show came out, because that show was out, I was having kids by then, I was so envious of those relationships and the four. fun they were having and hanging with their friends. And I mean, I was, oh, I can't wait to talk to these two. Well, our guests are two of the stars of everybody's favorite, the first real girlfriend comedy for black folks and young folks.

And not just girlfriends because they had guy friends too. We'll get into that because, you know, I saw it while they. the guys were there. You know, the friendships of women, in my view, that was the thing that stood out for me. The brothers upstairs, that was nice. But the show centered around that bond that women had and the very different personalities of all your girlfriends and some people like some folks and other folks get on your nerves, but you still find a way to learn from each other and grow. But anyway, introduce our guests, because we're getting way too into it. We're getting into it, and we need the experts out here.

But first we have Erica Alexander, who is a SAG and Independent Spirit Award nominated actress, known for her iconic acting roles as Maxine Shaw in Living Single, as we've mentioned. She's also starred in American Fiction, which you and I were talking about. recently, Get Out and the Cosby Show. And Kim Coles, with over four decades on stage and on screen, is beloved for her role as Sinclair James Jones. And she's also co-host of the hit podcast, Reliving Single. Erica and Kim are co-hosts. Yes, they are both co-hosts of Reliving Single. So without any further ado, Erica Alexander and Kim,

Come on out. And Kim, you guys, welcome to I am a bring-me to a coach. You can run as fast as she can. Thank you. Hello, sir. How you do? Thank you. Hello.

And hello. And hello. Hello. My sister, my sister. Hello. We can't wait to get into this. All righty. My goodness.

It's good to have you guys. Come on, sit on in. We could barely introduce you because we were getting into the whole. Now my mother can die. So she says, I can't believe that my children, my children have gone places I never thought. Is that how your mother talks to? Yes. She's one of those.

She's a Thespian. She's a Thespian. She's one of those. It's like, is that how your mother talks? I never. My children. I'm like, my. It's static.

And so are we. And so are we. My mother's 95. Just turned 95. Wow. Kim, you're going to meet Michelle. Oh, my mom. Oh, dear.

Like you knows you playing. And Craig. And Craig. It's wonderful. One does never cease. One does never cease. Well, if our mom were alive, she'd be flipping over you two being here. She, you know, is so proud to see two, amazing, smart.

Because it wouldn't just be because you were acting and on. On TV. Bless you. She would be thrilled with the way you present yourself in the world. We had met Mother Mary. Let me tell you something. That would have put me over the top. I would have never served myself at Thanksgiving again.

They would just feel like that's amazing. Thank you for that. Thank you. Well, it's great to see you too. You look great. First of all, this is like, and Craig is probably fan-boing. I am. I am.

I am. You're right. Thank you. You beautiful. Thank you. Bless you. Keeping it. together. Happy from the inside out is my

trick. It shows. Thank you. Happy from the inside. And it's a choice, right? Yeah. Yeah. Mine is gin tonics. It does the same thing. It does it. It starts from the inside. Yes. I should probably speak to someone about it. It does. No, no. I think it's working. I think it's working. So you guys, you guys, reliving single. I mean, what a great idea. You know, so we could live it and relive it. Yeah, yeah. What made you think to, you know, hop back into the conversation?

Shall I tell our origin story? Tell the origin story. My mother does. Well, actually, you know, it was like this. 30 years. It's been 30 years, 32 years, 32 years since we did the original show, living single. And it was 1993, I think, when we came out.

And all these years, I've been walking. around with this face. Uh-huh, yeah. And I realized a lot of people were asking me questions, and, you know, many times I wanted to answer them, and I kept answering the same question, and then after a while, people started talking about reboots and those things. And I was never really for that. So I was doing work with Color Farm Media, that's my company.

And we were doing some really great work with Kevin Hart's company and Charlemagne and Kevin Hart Heart Heart Beat. They have a really great audio team, and Eric Eddings, who was there, said, hey, would you ever do a rewatch podcast of living single? And I said, no, hell no, thanks. So what was the first instinct? Did it feel like that would be too? Would it feel like you were pulling yourself back to a place? Yeah. Was it, was it annoying you guys having your faces and having people remember you primarily? Not me. She's speaking for herself. Okay. I should, because, well, it's, it was difficult. And it wasn't difficult because I had any issues with it. It's just that I'm a person that likes to look forward.

I love new things. And then I thought about the opportunity of being able to talk about the industry, all the things that I've experienced Eric Alexander in this world and sort of showing up as myself as opposed to a proxy for Maxine Shaw, attorney at law, who I love and we've done work with her. You know, Maxine Shaw effect, the thing that she's, you know, kind of set off with, you know, lawyers, who felt inspired by her. But I said, I don't know if they really know who Erica is. Because as well-known as we are, especially back in the day, they didn't really interview a lot of black actors about their lives.

So I said, well, this is it. Like, take your shot. And then it was just like, well, who will you do it with? And, you know, I happen to be invite one of my best friends in life and the perfect partner for this. And that's Kim Kohl's. Take it from here, Kim. Kim.

I'll say that, you know, we do hear often, where's the reboot? We love that show. There aren't any shows like this on the air. And I think that there's a real, you know, it's missing. People want to connect with those kinds of upwardly mobile, you know, trying to figure it out, girlfriend relationships, friends with guys and figuring out relationships. And people are hungry for that. And so when this rewatch show experience, when you called me about that, all along, I

I was like, let's do a reboot, because I think we still look good. Let's get it on camera while we can. Let's get that check. So I was in. I was like, let's do it. So, yes, we're having fun. We're reviewing every episode from the start. Like we started with episode before zero, before zero.

The origin of how the show got started. And as inspired by you, Michelle Obama, because we said, you know what? We were in a state of becoming. So they need to know not just about these shows. They need to show, we need to show how we became who we are. That's Yeah That's beautiful

Yeah That's beautiful You know In my opinion I want to give people a sense Because we have a crop of new listeners Who before we get into the In

Living Single Concept For people to know what that was Like what was the plot Why did it have so much But before we do that I do want to hear more about You all Yeah

Thank you As people and your friendship. It's like, how did you all manage to, how did you two become the two? And, you know, did it continue from the show? Did you all find each other, reconnect with each other?

Was there ever a time where you were like that? I don't even know. Yes. You had all the stages. Oh, five minutes ago. But that's part of friendships, right? And growing and reassessing and rejiggering how things

become. I always say, I admit that immediately when I met Erica, so we met at Living Single. I always say for the record, I like to get it on the record, that I knew immediately that this show was going to be a hit. I felt like it would be a hit because the six of us had incredible chemistry. The fun that you feel and see really was very real. And so table read, which you know is the first time you sit down as a cast and you read the first script, I immediately just was drawn to Erica's and she's, you know, Erica. All your erikaisms, Ericaisms. And I was immediately like, oh, in love with who I thought that you were would be

because you were funny and you were bold. And I immediately was like, yes, that's going to be my friend. Well, Kim's the glue. She has a gift that she can in any room make people feel immediately at ease. I can feel that here. Oh, absolutely. But both of you all, but yeah. Thank you.

No, she would really make a clown. of herself. You're far apart. So people laugh. And that invites everybody to talk to each other and that type of thing. And it is a gift. I mean, it's, yeah.

So she did that for us because, you know, I was coming into the space. Now, truth is, the show was developed for her and Queen Latifah. So they're coming in with a different type of agency and authority than somebody like me or TC when we're like hired guns and we get, we have to audition.

You know, we're sort of, you know, still proving ourselves. They don't have to. And so I was the fourth lead. And I was also the character that Yvetteley Bowser, that's lift her name up, she was the creator of the show, had created to represent her. She was wanting to be a lawyer. She wanted to do all of that.

She went to Stanford, ended up becoming a writer. And she had in her eye, in her thing, this, you know, really gung-ho, a woman who was a world-beater and that type of thing. But she was so strong that the network didn't like. like it. And they put, they said, you have to get rid of it. And she said, no, I can't. You'll get rid of me. And so she put that character across the street. Uh-huh. So I was given separating. You couldn't live in the house. Couldn't live in the house. Couldn't live in the house. Couldn't live in the house. She couldn't live in the house. It felt like you all, you were all together. That was, she was one. Of course. But it's, it, that just reminds me of the, it's just amazing. What a powerful character that was.

And I want to get to that team aspect of it that you're talking about. Can I say something? Yes, about that and about the friendship. So even though you were put across the street and even though the show was created around the two of us, what I'm speaking to, what I really want to call to that you asked about the friendship. Yes. Is that there was no hierarchy amongst us. So it's not like we walked in,

going, hello, we have arrived, and you and you and you, good luck to all of you. I think this camaraderie, and I've always said that I came from a show that was highly competitive, so I came from In Living Color. And sketch comedy shows are notorious for being competitive environments, and that's what makes them work. And here I was in an environment that was collaborative and cooperative, and that happened very quickly. And we learned each other's strengths, and we learned each other's, you know, I won't even say, It's just like if I throw the ball to her, she's going to catch it, do something different, and throw it that way.

Like, okay, so we learned that quickly. And I think that helps shape the friendship, that helps shape how we fell in love with each other and how we've worked together so, so beautifully. So did that your friendship continue past the show? Did. Are you guys always been each other's people? It's tough. Okay.

Yeah, let's hear about that. Well, look, you know, you make these family and really hard, friendships because you're like in a crucible. And you're in a brutal schedule and everybody's feeling the love and all of that. And you know this. I mean, you go away and you go, we're all going to keep in touch. And then we go along our ways and that's kind of it. We did that to some extent because that's the life that you choose. That's the life of an artist. You have to keep making a living. Everybody's always all over the place, all the time. But we did our best to keep in touch because we were just very naturally a fit on set. And our mothers are both educators.

Our fathers are both pastors, preachers, you know, Church of God and Christ, Lutheran, yours, what, Methodist? It became Episcopal priest at age 60 something. Yeah, really wild. And we got along maybe partly because we argued on set and made up and did some reparative work. So we were kind of more like sisters. In that, I just have to say that we did our best to stay in touch and there was always love. But the truth is the unspoken thing about this business is that it does break up and make up families all. the time. And whatever your best intentions are, you just don't have time. And I've heard you speak

about that even with the show and why you got together to do it so you could spend time with your brother and spend time with you. I can't do that with my family. Can you imagine the craziness that that would happen? I think it's smart. You guys break the stereotype. There's also this view that women in the business, black women in the business, don't get along. I have not found that. That's crazy. Really? I have found that So I want to add a little, if I may, I love telling the world that she was made of honor at one of my weddings. I love that.

One of my. You were made of honor. I was made of honor at your wedding. For sure. And neither one of us are married to either of those men. Yes. So I want to make sure I add that a little dose of the love rule will remain. That's true.

But I will say that, you know, there's this stereotype or this rule that women don't get along. And of course there's competition. in theory. There's only one role for that particular character. But every... Right? But every audition I've ever been on. And we don't go those on auditions in person

as much as we did before COVID. I always felt an energy in the room of like, oh, look who's here, oh, looks it. It was the time that you could see people and run. I would always go see you all at the table read, even though only one of us will make it there. And there's a respect that you have for others that I don't...

It's either my job or it's yours and made the best woman win. May the best man win. Yeah, but Kim, that's a level of self-awareness and self-security that a lot of people, not just actors, but all of us, all of us listening, don't have. Where does that come from? Does that come from parenting? Parents, good parents.

Tell us about it. My dad was, I would call him the king of positive expectations. He walked into a room expecting that he was going to get great. A black man, educated, chosen to educate himself, walked into a room expecting that good things were going to happen. He was charming. He was wise. He was, you know, beloved. But not in an entitlement, just like, I'm going to be here and we're going to have a good time.

And I'm going to, hello, how are you today? That, you know, handshake. That's what you have. He's a natural optimist. Yes. And my mother also has that same energy of expecting and seeing the good in everyone. I see you. I love you.

Woo-woo is. Woo-woo, Sinclair's cat phrase, comes from Bernie's Coles. It means I see you, I love you, I acknowledge you, I'm here for you.

Is your mom, she was woo-woo-woo-woo? She's the woo-woo-woo. Is she woo-woo-woo? Yes. I love that. It's going to be all right. Yes.

I love that. Yes. So there's that. My mother talks weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And your mother has woo-wooed my mother. Your mother's no one another. They do. They do. Yes. You know, my mother calls her

my precious, How's my precious Erica? And Sammy. And how is Sammy? So anyway, so that's where that comes from. It's a choice. I can go in there on the audition like, good luck, sucker. Yeah.

Or go, may the best woman. Right, right. It's a choice. This segment is brought to you by Colagard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. Mish, what's one simple way that you put your health first in your everyday life? One simple way. There are many ways. Yeah, I guess you're right.

One thing that I do is I prioritize my health. So the first thing that I do on any day is I get my workout in. What does that entail? Some days it's tennis. What about you? So mine, thanks to you now, my sister sent me some wonderful yoga mats and bolsters that I can do some everyday. I stretch every day before I get my day going. And then I try to make sure that I get a walk two to four miles every day.

Yeah, flexibility. I've been hammering with you with that as we get older, we got to keep our ligaments very pliable. So I'm so glad you're doing yoga. I do yoga twice a week. Yen yoga, which is a long, deep stretch. So I prioritize that. But I prioritize sleep. Ooh, smart.

I am an early to bed, early to rise person and probably you as well. I am too. And as I've gotten older, I've realized that when I get a good night's sleep, I have a wonderful next day. So I'm usually in bed by 10.30, maybe 11. Yeah. And then for me, it's diet. You know, we eat pretty healthy.

You know, we're not too avid about it. But whenever we're at home, our meals are clean, simple, a meat, veggie for me, throwing a carb for Barack. But diet is everything, especially as I've found that I've gotten older, you know, making sure that it's just clean. Yeah, yeah. And then, of course, you know, I'm coaching two basketball teams. So that gives me some exercise at least four times a week. So I'm really excited about that. And another great way to put your health first is to prioritize getting screened for colon cancer.

The American Cancer Society recommends you begin screening at 45, and that's why we're proud to partner with Colagard. It's an easy-to-use prescription-based colon cancer screening test that's delivered right to your door. So you can collect a sample comfortably at home, all on your own schedule. There's no prep, no invasive procedure, and no more reasons to put off your screening. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with the Coligard test. You can also request a Coligard prescription today at colagard.com slash podcast. And Erica, your background, a little different. A little different. Yes, I was born in Arizona.

Arizona of Highway 66. And were there seven black people there? There were seven black people there. And that's my soul. And five more than that's true. And I've been the first, my father was a preacher, Church of God and Christ. He later changed to Lutheran. My mother was the ministry of music.

They were like a tag team. They go around. Church of God and Christ, you know how that is. It's like past the plate. He's itinerant. He has no home, no home church. So he has to go. and do revivals.

And so I spent the first 11 years of my life in a hotel called Starlight of Route 66, and I'm one of six. Yeah. Yeah, so there we were doing our thing, and that's where everything comes from. That's my whole point of view in life, that we depended on the kindness of strangers.

And so my family, out of survival, and my mother taught us that if we spoke well and that we had good manners, that people would take care of us. So that's how I came up. He, eventually, my father was recruited by the Lutheran Church. They sent him to the Lutheran Theological Seminary in Philadelphia.

I was going to a summer program at Freedom Theater. Freedom Theater was like a place where it was like the new Motown. They were looking to bring up these city kids and give them a theater background. And you'd appreciate this because we were basically coached our mind into like being, telling us that we were young, gifted in black. And we did not have the right not to be good. to, you know, and to be the best. And you haven't earned your tiredness.

I mean, they worked us out. And we also got a little performing arts. Shut along the side. And then the movie came to town. And they needed black girls to audition. And so they... How old were you? I was 14.

I was 14. And my mother always said, you take an opportunity where you can. And so that was an opportunity. And boom, shock a lock, I go in. I'm second in line. And after many auditions and several screen tests, the dust cleared. And it was me.

Wow. It was me. To have parents who, you know, have sort of the vision and the courage, right, to allow their kids to be creatives, right? Because if your parents were making sure you weren't ashy and could speak good English, right, just to survive, which there's so much that is said in that truth, right? Because as black kids, as kids who are other, you would be in danger if you couldn't carry yourself well. Absolutely.

You know, and that's not because you live in a motel. Yes. But education and the way you present is an armor because they're assuming the worst of us. Exactly. Usually. Like if you don't speak right, then you probably stole that, you know. I was harassing my hotel today. Yeah.

I was getting, I won't say the name of it. Yeah, I was getting my makeup done. They said, are you here? You know, and I said, why would I be in a room? and my partner, Ben Arnon. But they questioned whether the hotel room was yours? No, it was the space that we were using. I asked permission last night to get in that space.

And the next thing you know, one person comes, and I said, I did get permission. And then the person comes. I said, I asked you for permission. Or are you, you know, do you have a room here? And I said, why would I be here if I wasn't? And then when I went back, you know, Ben, my partner said, you know, why didn't you tell you were going to see Michelle Obama? I said, because how dare they?

You shouldn't have to. I said they should treat everybody with decency. And I wouldn't give them the satisfaction. And he said, but they would have, and I said, no, it's not about that. I did everything right. But the point is, that happens all the time. And you have to just pick yourself up and say, I do belong here. And I have the right to be here and explain yourself.

There's so many ways to jack up your, you know, your adrenaline and all of that. And I have to say that being educated and calm, I'm doing my best to not, you know, be provoked. That's a defense. And it's a skill that you have to learn. So your parents, a lot of those parents would say, and you need to be a lawyer or a doctor or this or that, because you also need that armor as you grow.

But both of your parents said, me try this acting thing, you know. Reverend Dr. Clifford Coles said. Not really. Reverend Dr. Cleverickleckle, I call Reverend Dr. Daddy. Until he left this earth, was still expecting me to matriculate at some point. So I was going to speak at a college and he would go, Kimberly, this would be a wonderful. They would give you an opportunity to come back and say.

So we, you know, my situation is that I was the first generation that didn't finish college. My grandmother went back to get her master's in the 50s, in her 50s. So my mother almost has her master's. My dad has this doctorate and all the things. So, you know, they were like, this entertainment business is really cute. We're going to support you. Oh, you're so funny on TV. We love telling our neighbors.

However, when are we going back to school? So always, I think, the dad is the school of life. You're so proud. And never made me feel as if I was not still loved and appreciated and you're doing a great job. But we're going to go back and get that degree. My dad kept trying to send me from computer classes from DeVry. Wow. I just sold that commercial.

That question. You wish you'd have some those skills now? Are you kidding? Of course. I wish, are you kidding? I did not end up going to. I got into NYU and I dropped out, you know, legitimately to go to the Royal Shakespeare Company tour. My mother said, you know what, if you travel around the world, that's its own education, going to do that.

And I asked her permission because I knew it would matter to her. But I have to say, just recently, not too long ago, Benet College, the smallest HBCU in North Carolina gave me a doctorate. And my mother was there. And she cried and I cried like a baby. Because I knew that she was proud of me. Yeah. You know how that is. And I'm walking there and I didn't know how much it meant to me.

It's not only satisfy her expectations for me, but what it meant was like, oh, I belong here. Excuse me. I can't call it up. And I'll always be grateful. Thank you. I'll always be grateful. Bless you.

So when did you both know I want to be an actor? That's what I want to figure out. It was in my 40s. I got hypnotized. Really? I'm not even lying to you. I got hypnotized. I remember I was in Venice.

And I went to some hypnotist. I said, let me go. And, you know, I'm trying out new things. I'm always interested. And they put me under, and I thought this, or the woman did. And I thought, this is not working. I'm totally not under. But I told her, you know, something that was in my mind about going in a basement.

And there was water. And then I went to a closet and all this other stuff. And then I came out. out of it and I was sitting there and she said something about being an actress and I go yeah okay she said well haven't you been doing it for a long time and I said yeah I guess so she said well you're an actress and I have to say I hadn't heard it like that I got out of there well what did you think you were doing all these years Erica I think I will tell you I was always writing my comeback piece yes she was saying I'm going to my trailer right my comeback piece like what do you got to come back

But I got in my car and I sobbed like a baby because I realized I had not accepted my fate. Wow. And it needed her. And whatever happened in this hypnotism had unlocked this door. And I cried for 20 minutes straight where I said, you are an actress. Was it tears of joy? Were you happy about it? No.

It was tears of recognition and worthy. Yeah. You just maybe suppressed that I couldn't believe. Yeah. That you were you. Yeah. And maybe my own expectations were not to be an actress. Yeah.

To be a scientist or something much more legitimate. Yeah. And yet this is my life. Yes. And I have to say, stop running for it, accept it. You're here and you're doing well. I mean, it's not easy. But I was made for it.

I just thought, here's the thing. you ever see people and they come in and they can play and they can do their thing. Yeah, sure. And they have an innate thing for it. And then they're either nurtured or they take it on or they don't. So I had an innate thing for it. But I didn't think that it was my thing. I just thought, oh, I can do that. I realize now that fate serves you up to destiny. And you have to accept that. But I had not accepted it. And I needed to. And so I'm grateful. So that's when I found out when I was 40-7 years old. grateful that you have because, like, this is the thing we do. Like, there are these certain roles in positions. There's a certain way to live life. Like, you know, you can have these positions and that means you're important, you're worthy. But you both have impacted so many

people's lives. There is a ministry and a deep power that has raised. resonated through decades from the work that you've done and to not, like, feel the pride and the importance of that. I'm like, I want that for you because you've done that for so many people. I mean, you're sitting here, both of you, and I feel like I know you. I've known you, right? I mean, little old me. I mean, you know. Can I fall out? But watching through the work that you do, the acting thing that you've done, the shows you've created, the roles you put out there, you've changed lives. You know? Erica needed a little bit of mom because my mom would have said to you that all of the kids in our neighborhood could have done all of the stuff that we did.

We were all talented. We were all talented. She would have told you, you would have, she wouldn't have hypnotized you. Oh, but she would have told you how talented you are not just as an actor and actress, but as a person. And it comes out of you in your generosity of your talent. And that's what I can see looking back at living single. and then what you've done since and then what you're doing now

sort of for the industry and for young folks and you just need my mom would have your mother didn't just tell me that yeah yeah yeah yeah all four of us will be here right is that what was happening in your household

thank you it's the good enough piece of it right I mean we touched on it but the shoot the hotel incident this morning, right? Come on. Is the constant reminder to us as people of color, as women, you know, it's the thing your parents taught us that we have to prove that we're good enough.

You were in Ivy League schools and you talk about proving yourself. I had to prove to people that, you know, my husband and I are still proving that we were legitimate people to run the country, you know, that we were good enough to be the president and the First Lady. I mean, that psychological thing, that's not, that's not in our heads. It's happened. And it continues to happen for sure. How did you ground into that?

How did you, you know, well, like you guys said, it's like you're sort of in the school of believing in yourself. You know, it's like we, our communities, our families, the people who know better, right, they indoctrinate us into this, you are black and proud, you are good enough. And then it's almost, you have to replace all those other daily messages, daily slights, daily micro-acgressions with these positive messages. And somewhere in there is your raw talent, is the rawness of whom you in that motel running around speaking proper English, the Erica and the Kim's, the essence of you is always there.

And you know that when you're a kid. And we were fortunate to have parents who poured into us that we could do whatever we wanted to do. And it's still hard. You're still out. But it's funny, there's this level of, and people use the term imposter syndrome. And I don't think it's imposter syndrome. that's not what I'm feeling. It's more of a, you just got to prove myself.

Always, every day. You never know. Year after year. And my mom would be like, you shouldn't be worried about what people think. Right. But you worry about what people think. I'm glad you said it's not imposter syndrome because I always felt like I don't feel like an imposter, but I just don't know if people who've shaped what that is.

Yeah. Yeah, we may have to do another show. You've got to. You've got to. There's a lot of people talking about that now. And I've always said that real impostors don't have that syndrome. We all know a whole lot of impostors who don't have any doubt whatsoever. They got it going on.

It's like it's not the impostors who have that problem. And so why should we doubt or why should we, you know, because life does what life does, it's just a little reminder of maybe you don't really belong here. Maybe you're not good enough. Well, we also don't give our sales permission to have, joy, you know. I mean, you start with my mom. Now, she had a rough, right? Come on. You know, because that's also where we are, you know, as hard as we may have it. Come on. You know, as rough side of the amount. Black folks, you know, we have it better.

And the generations have always improved, even though we still have a long way to go. But it makes it difficult to enjoy it, right? You feel like have we earned the claim. Is it now enough? Is it now enough? Is it enough? My gosh. And this is part of what I've been trying to unravel. When is it enough? When can I sort of rest a little bit at, you know, not just as me, but as a 60-year-old woman? When can I finally look and go? I have done a lot and I've done enough. I mean, that doesn't mean I'm stopping, but I have really done enough. And when, if not now, going to be able to look on my accomplishments and say, good job. And maybe those are the tears. The tears are like, Erica, good freaking job. Good job. Good job. And you didn't need the PhD to do it.

But there's no ceremony for that. Like there's no walking across the aisle of congratulations. Right. You are a wonderful human being. Right. A woman in the world who's done something powerful. Thank you. Thank you. And I think that brings tears. The tears of relief that maybe I'm, maybe, maybe it's enough. It's enough. The pride of it too, because we're always told. Be humble.

That's what I hear in you. Humble into the ground. That's right. You know? Yeah. And yet we come from also people from Muhammad Ali on that had to say who they were and tell the world that they were great. You know, the rappers, they come out with, you know, you coach, you got to, your mind

That is everything. You better be the first one. Confidence. His black women, and often we're not told that. Oh, and when we do it, then we're being uppity. Who should think she is? We're being bossy. We're being a problem.

Yeah. We're being, we're complicated. Yes. Yes. Difficult. Difficult. I've been told that several times. And I always, it hurts my heart.

I'm like, really? I said, well, after a while I was like, well, I guess I am. Right. Is it difficult or is it commanding respect? Is it difficult? or is it having boundaries, or I like to call them peaceful perimeters. A peaceful perimeter. Because boundaries sounds like war.

Sounds like a new underwear. I'm keeping everything out. Peaceful perimeter says this is what I will allow in. And you may, you're not welcome here. Off you go. That's your girdle. Yeah. Your girdle is a peaceful perimeter.

Sometimes it is not peaceful at all. It is not peaceful at all. It is evil. You all know how much I love. staying in Airbnb's. I just got to D.C. and I found yet another one. It's right smack dab in the middle of Georgetown. And the best feature about this place is the rooftop patio.

I mean, you get fantastic views of Georgetown. And what else I like about this location? It is walkable to a bunch of places. I ate dinner in Georgetown, was able to walk home. I can walk and get coffee first thing in the morning. and it's really close to where we're recording. And like most Airbnb's, it has all of the comforts of home. Kitchen, laundry, and especially during these hot days, it's got air conditioning.

Don't tell anybody, but I've made use of the hot tub. Airbnb makes it super easy to find what I'm looking for. So next time you're booking a trip, be like me and book at Airbnb. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progress. Progressive Insurance, who help people move forward and live fully. Owning a home can be one of the most powerful ways to build financial security. But for many, especially first-generation buyers, it can feel out of reach. That's why I appreciate what Progressive is doing.

In 2024, they contributed over $7 million to help individuals and families break the cycle of renting by providing support, offering educational resource, and developing tools to build long-term financial stability through home ownership. Their work goes beyond just insurance. Their opening doors. Through their newly created uppayment program, Progressive is helping first-generation homebuyers move closer to the dream of home ownership by offering eligible applicants a chance to receive a down payment assistance grant. You know, owning a home for me made me feel grounded and also set me up for the future. And as a coach, when your life is dependent on wins and losses, it's really important to have the comfort of a really nice home to come home to, especially for your family.

Home ownership is one of the biggest investments you'll ever make, and Progressive wants to help more people take that life-changing step. Learn more today at progressive.com slash open the house. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Coligard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. Currently, the American Cancer Society recommends that if you are at average risk, you should begin screening for colon cancer at age 45. There are an estimated 60 million adults age 45 plus in America who are not up to date with their colon cancer screening. So we need to change that by spreading the word about another option. The Kola Guard test can help you put your health first and feel more in control of your colon cancer screening process.

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So, but I want to hear from Kim. What now? I want to hear when did you feel like you were going to be an entertainer? Because, you know, stand-up comedy, it's hard. Yeah, but like, what makes you say, I'm going to get on stage and I'm going to be funny to all y'all? Because I know I'm funny. I think I'm funny. We all think we're funny, but we all think we're funny, but we all think we're funny,

but we don't all think we could stand up in front of people and be funny. Right. Really, it started for me in high school. Okay. I didn't know what I was building, but I was building. So I was the chubby girl. And going into high school, I was, you know, 14, I was clear. I was like the fat girl in high school doesn't always fare so well. You get teased and you, you know, you're weird, you know, chubby, whatever that is.

And so I thought, I know what I'll do. If I make them laugh with me instead of at me, then nobody will ever call me fat because I've already told the jokes. I've already made them laugh. And I've already deflected, now I call it a peaceful perimeter. I've already said, don't look at this, look at this. And comedy is actually a connector.

Yes. And I know that now from standing on stage and watching an audience, there's nothing more thrilling for me. And I don't do stand-up as much as I used to. I've now morphed into being a speaker, and I still use some of those same things as a speaker. There's a connection that happens.

The audience is connecting to you because they're laughing or listening. And often audience members turn to each other, and laugh and there's a way of connection. And so I was avoiding being called the chubby girl, but what I was really doing was creating a connection. So years later, when I dropped in and out of college about three times, 1985 was the first time I stepped on a stage and tried this thing.

I would write my little jokes and perform because I felt that connection. You guys picked a hard industry. Yeah, for sure. And I want to talk a little bit about that because, You showed your Shakespearean abilities. You showed the ability to work in a team and an ensemble. You showed the comedy. You showed the drama.

You showed the, and you lasted. Tell us, and then what? And then what? Tell us about the investigation of television. Yeah. Officially. We were number one. You were about to say.

We're number one in African American households for all five seasons. You always remind me that we, We were number one in Latino households. Not to mention, I always tell the story of the little Jewish man in the bank who grabbed my arm. Like, I love you, girls. You girls are so beautiful. I love you, girls. I love the queen.

Give the queen my best. I love you girls. And so lots of people loved us, although we were relegated and segregated. Yeah, and yet something happened that I think was intentional or not. It happened. Everything changed. And they started to create different cable network. networks that had to build their audience.

We were already on one, which was the Fox Channel, and we helped build that network, literally. Tisha Campbell, Sheena, all of them, Martin. A living color. Living single. All of that. Was a Jamie Fox show? Was he on? Jamie Fox was on the CW.

So that's what happened. Everything started to shift and place shows with black cast. Now, Kim, you'll say black shows, and I don't say that. I say shows with black cast in those spaces. Not for nothing. You could solely see everything sort of bleed off the page. And there's a problem with that because that means that we're not getting in the mainstream anymore. We're not giving the opportunity of marketing and sponsorship that that can afford.

And so you're also, the value goes down. So when I was growing up, when we're all growing up, the Jefferson's, what's happening, all of that was run. You'd see MASH. You'd see the Jeffersons. You'd see blah, blah, blah. No one ever called the Jefferson's a black show. You just called it. Jefferson.

You certainly didn't call the Cosby Show, a black show. It was a show. Suddenly, we were black shows. And that went away. And I think it messed up everything in terms of momentum. Because we had the huge form of momentum, again, with Fresh Prince, family matters, all of these things. So what happened was everything changed.

And if you don't have anybody funding these things, things. But when you say everything changed, usually when their success begets success, especially in Hollywood, well, what exactly changed? Was it the executives? Was it cultural? Was it political? Was it too much success? There you go. Too much success. It's not the first time that that's happened. That there's too much success and then suddenly somebody pulls the rug out underneath. So just around 2000, things shifted. And, you know, I remember somebody telling me a memo, but they wanted things lighter and brighter.

And that meant the end of us. Was it the money? I mean, with the more success were you negotiating as a cast for more? No, we didn't even know to do that. And there's no way. We were always in the black. There was no way that we could be too much money for the budgets they gave us. Right, right.

We were always operating the black. and we were very successful in syndication from the get-go. It was just- I don't understand because we had a new network president come in and then decided to just change the complexion of the network. And it didn't work. It didn't work. You've now lost the audience.

You've lost this audience that you've built up, that's built trust. Like, this is where I come if I want this kind of show. And it just, and, you know, we didn't go away altogether, but the rug was pulled out. Mish and I talked about, We talked about this a little bit beforehand because right after you all show Friends comes out. Oh, yeah, the year after us.

It's like, come on. Yes. This is it's. And what we talked about is the opportunities for another successful show like that, for the folks who ended that one. Oh, they went on to do a great. They're very different. And I just. And their salaries.

Just, yeah. Through the roof. Yeah. Yeah. So I think our, it would be nice for our listeners to hear your thoughts on that because I think I know what they are. But it's noticeable for me from the outside looking in, right? Noticable for everyone. And as good as friends could have been, I had like a, you know, I felt a certain way.

So I didn't watch it because of your all show. Oh, wow. Craig is true to this. He's true to this. new to this. Thank you. You're welcome. It's true that often black people in performing arts start things, whether it's from Elvis Presley on, that are imitations of other things. And that's certainly what happened there. It just happened to be that we were at the same, you know, production company. Warner Brothers, right? And so it was quite obvious.

it's what happens all the time. The problem is that you could also see the type of investment they were making versus what they were making with us. And that, to me, is the frustrating thing that is systemic and we fight all over. People think, because you're in showbiz, that you are spoiled and you're getting all of these things. And one of the things that we did the podcast for is we wanted people to know us as people to sort of see us as people who were inside of a corporate structure. And if that corporate structure exists in America, it is probably built on the same, you know, flawed foundation that all these structures, I mean, industries are built on. You know, we talk about people not funding black women. Less than 1% of venture capitalism goes into, capital goes into black women's business. Well, Yvette Lee Bowser, a black woman's business. We are black. I mean, we, you have an agent and a manager and you have things.

you're a small business, so am I. That's what we're getting in a way. Sure, we're the lucky ones, and it looks fortunate, but we have the same. Yeah, and it's hard to talk about, when I say it's hard to talk about, because what happens is people end up going, hey, you're lucky, and this and this and that. I said, I didn't say that we weren't fortunate.

I'm saying that the downward pressure of wages is real, everywhere. And so if you want to talk about it, you know, outside of being famous, then you can. But just because I'm famous, don't make it less true. And so we do have an issue. It's true. Well, Hollywood is, it's a subjective business, right? You know, we now have a production company. We're getting a taste of it. But there are decision makers, right? And people tend to make decisions around whether they think they're expert or not, it's based on their taste. Oh, for sure. And it's hard to convince some of these heads and the green lighters to understand that they have an inherent bias to pick things that they like, you know, which is why

you want diversity in these seats of power because, yes, you're a white guy, you like sports, and you like women that look a certain way, or maybe you think this is funny, that's just one perspective. But I, as a black woman, as a woman who's seen this or that, I can tell you that this is interesting. And there's a whole pool of people that will pay money. You can make money off of these people. But in the end, who's going to, who makes the decision? The person in charge, who decides ultimately, am I going to go with your opinion or with

mine. And if when you're in charge, you'd go with your opinion. And I see that happening time and time again at all, you know, in all industries, in all sectors. And their opinion is going to bankrupt the industry. Because you're the future. There's no doubt about it. Yeah, they don't speak to a whole market. I had that challenge even with my book, writing, becoming. Great publishers, supportive, my book tour was my idea. It wasn't like the publisher said, you know what, you could go on a 32 city book tour. I was like, well, you know, there are a lot of people out there who are interested in the story and the conversation. I said, I bet we could do something bigger than that, right?

And so we had this huge book tour that nobody had ever done before. Because guess what? I don't know that a lot of people in the industry realized there were that many women and women of color who had that kind of disposable income. There you go. There were people, I was in Denmark,

and there was a group of sisters from Detroit in the VIP line. Yes. My first thing was like, Danish, Danish, Danish sisters. And my own thing was like, what are y'all doing here? And they were like, girl, we wanted to meet you. the tickets in Detroit were sold out. Wow.

We saved up. We bought money. They came to Denmark. Detroit to Denmark. To be in the city. I said, well, what else are you doing in Denmark? They were like, we don't know. Right.

But we came to see you and then we'll see some of Denmark. And I was like, you all go. Right? But if that's happening for Michelle Obama, then imagine what's not being invested in. Yeah, but after that. That's nuts. Then what was the next big,

book tour. What was the next? The audience is there. And this is what you try to convince the decision makers. It's like, wow, you don't know me. You don't know my audience. But if you're the decision maker and it's not your data. And that means they don't have the vision. No. It's not their experience. They don't even believe, like, it's the same thing that makes you cry. Because sometimes you just feel like you just don't see me. Right. You, you don't. see me no matter what I do. Right. You still don't see me.

And it's because, and I'm not, it's not because you don't want to. And you can't say that to folks because they feel like, no, that's not who I am. And it's like, it's not who you are. But it's not who you are in your heart. But it's who you've become. Have made it impossible for you to understand that you really are only seeing the things that you believe in. You want to see. So I'm asking you.

I'm asking us. what happens to get visionaries in those, visionaries or people who will take the risk, because it's not going to risk, you've proven it, you know, Wakanda proved it, Homeboy sinners. Sinners proved it. Like we prove it over and over and over again.

So what does it take to find the visionaries in those places who will say yes, who will greenlight something, who will keep taking that. And it ain't a risk and it ain't a chance. You need diversity. Yeah. You know, the bad word

of the decade. We call it DEI. It's been castigated. It's been demonized. But it's essentially just saying that you just need a lot of different people in rooms, in decision-making rooms, not out of some favor. But as a business strategy. It's just, it's just, you would rather miss money.

Right. That part. That part. Like that part. Everybody used to always say, oh, never. they'll always get their money, their money. I said, that's actually not true. Not necessarily true.

If you leave billions of dollars on the table, that can do good for people. Or believing that a movie won't play overseas. Of course it will. We've proven it. The data is there. But that's why diversity matters. It just, we just all have different experiences. That's all.

That's all it is. It's just, we have different tastes. And there's money to be made in all of it. But if the tastemakers look a certain way, then the shows tend that get promoted, that get marketed, that get the opportunity. You know, that's where the money goes. To me, this is Jurassic Age. It's falling apart. It's meant to.

It can't go on. I mean, I love Reverend Barbara. I quote him all the time. Your friend Reverend Barbara calls this the Third Reconstruction. And so if it is, that means these foundations have to be redone. And we are architects of the Third Reconstruction. They're already palimcess. There's new investors and new people.

There's Core Jefferson, American Fiction. There's Jordan Pill who's doing Get Out. There's Alicia Harris. Amazing. I just did a film with her. Is God is. They are not playing. I needed them to come and find me and say, invite me to play.

Not even have me auditions say, I know what she can do. I know she can do this role. And then come on, let's do it. Tell us about the lives you've created for your in the midst of rejection and waiting and all of this because you both are standing up, back straight, looking good. So you figured something out. Yes, we are.

And they would lie here. A lot of good hair. We said you started it. Why don't you keep going? Yeah, I am. After Living Single ended and I went into a depression because there wasn't work. Wasn't working. hadn't quite figured out what else I could do.

I audition here and there, not getting anything. And sometimes you reach a certain level and they go, well, she wouldn't take this job. I might have. Or whatever that is. And so going into this space of what else can I do? What else? Because I don't know how to type.

I can't cook. I can't sing. Didn't go to DeVry. I didn't go to DeVry. Take the computer classes. I dropped out of college a hundred times. I don't know that I can make a living doing this. And so I, I, I,

I moved over. It's like taking your gifts and talents and skills and going like, where else can they be placed? So if I'm a stand-up comedian, I can be a speaker. And so I immersed myself into what it means to become a speaker on stage or an impactful speaker, deciding what type of speaking I would do, taking some of my comedy bits and working them into inspiration so that I'm inspiring. And then, you know, eventually learning that I really wanted to help. help people transform their lives. So not just rah-rah, which is nothing wrong with that, or being encouraging or engaging,

but to also go like, what can we do to transform our thinking, our mindset, our soul, our soul and the work. So you're an educator. I became, my mother wanted me to be a teacher. I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. And then I became a teacher. So that's what I've been doing. And that's why there's a, hopefully you feel a groundedness. I go like, I'm sorry that these other things.

while I can fight the powers that be, I can also be the power of my own choosing, right? So that's what I'm doing, what I'm doing for now. Color Farm Media, that's my company. I started it 10 years ago with my partner, Ben Arnon.

We met at the 2008 D&C Convention Night. Oh. He was a delegate. for your husband, Mr. Obama. And I was a delegate for Hillary. I was Hillary Clinton's most traveled surrogate. The other side. The other side.

I was wondering if you were to come out and tell. It's how we like that. You know, the fun thing, it made me a better voter all over to understand it, you know, how it happens. And up until that point, I hadn't. What made you get involved in politics? I mean, a lot of people run, okay. Poverty. Say that a little bit more. Poverty. Poverty, you talk about hard times and it's real.

Anyway, we started the company. We get a call from John Lewis's office. We heard that you have a production company. Would you like to do a documentary on the congressman? I said, I'd sweep his floors. I don't care what he needs me to do. And through that avenue came our first opportunity as a company. Okay. John Lewis could trouble. And then after that, we did a,

documentary about reparations, Evidence in Illinois, but Alderwoman Robin Ruth Simmons and Sheila Jackson Lee with HR 40 and all these things. And it just kept pushing us in places where I thought, look, this is not only opportunity, but we're telling history. We're getting an opportunity to do that.

But I think ultimately we're starting to realize that this world may not change as fast as we need to and we need to find a different avenue. And we're seeking other borders. Well, and, you know, I listen to that and I think, well, maybe that's also where the tears are coming from. Because it's like to go from the power that your characters and living single had in the world, right? And I remember I heard in an interview that you were like, well, I was Maxine Shaw, but I wasn't a lawyer. I didn't go to law school.

You know. But you were, you all were. were showing so many of us, because I was a lawyer at the time. By the time, I don't know it. We're very much so. And living single was out. I was like a first, second year associate at a corporate law firm. So I was living that.

You were also a dean too. I was an associate dean at the University of Chicago when that was going on. So there were, you know. We didn't need to lift your sights. You know, for others. But making us visible. Yeah, because that character hadn't existed before. We had Felicia Vosha.

But not in a comedy and this kind of, you know. And it was a different strength. Yeah. It was definitely a different strength. Yeah. I mean, you were single. You were sexual. Come on.

You were, you know, you were brash. You were annoying. Yes. You were, you know. All of that. Right. No. She was.

You know. Unapologetic. Black women had to be nice. or kind, you know, Maxine was like an unapologizing, you know, which was reflective of what a lot of us

had to be in order to be in those spaces. And you were changing lives then and both of you all are still doing that today and have managed to maintain yourselves and your presence and still think creatively and powerfully about how to be impactful in the world. This episode of IMO is brought to you in part by Acorns.

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advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash IMO. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Indeed. And you know, one skill that has helped me over my years is a adaptability. You know, I started out as a college basketball player and was fortunate enough to get drafted. And I went to try out, got cut, had to make a pivot. I went from being at an NBA camp to an overseas camp. And I played over there for a couple of years and then came back to the United States and made another pivot. And I got into the investment business, which was a brand new experience for me. So I had to be adaptable. And I went from there back to business school,

and I had to be adaptable yet again and be back into learning mode. And subsequently, after spending 14 years in the investment industry, I came back to basketball as a coach. And it's really important that I let myself learn, continue to learn, be adaptable, and be willing to pivot. Being open to change helped me explore roles I hadn't really originally planned for, which made my career richer and more fulfilling. Indeed helps people do the same by identifying their existing skills

and connecting them to new opportunities. Through Indeed, people can find better work that fits their skills, even if it means shifting career paths or trying something new. Just like my own adaptability has opened doors for me, Indeed's mission is to empower everyone to leverage their skills for better work. Whether adaptability is a skill you have or not, Indeed can help connect the skills you have to new opportunities. When people feel confident in their skills and open to change,

the world truly can work better. Well, speaking of being impactful, IMO is all about having our listeners submit a question. and we have a question from a listener that I think would be ideal for the two of you to help us answer. And it comes from Amanda in Tucson, Arizona. She's from AZ. Hey, Lava. Home State.

Hi, I'm Amanda. Thank you so much for taking my question. As a woman in my mid-40s, okay, I'm 45. I'm struggling with the concept of time. I want to do so much in this world, but it feels like time. is flying by. And unfortunately, you can't just snap your fingers and have all your dreams come true. So how do you handle this nagging feeling that you're running out of time and that your life might not mean as much as you wanted to? Similarly, how do you know that you're doing enough,

that you're making enough of a difference while you're here? Thank you. I love you both. It's almost as if she was sitting right here. It's true. We're going to need a cocktail. Rewind this episode and existential dread. It has throughout your life. You're going to have it, I believe. And I also believe that as a story in my, as a character in my own story, I keep feeling that I am coming of age all the time. I hear you waiting to grow up. Yeah. Like, yeah, this is, this is it. They make story after story after people who come to this thing and realize, wait a minute. I got to get it. I can feel that tick, tick, tick, tick. And if I don't, I won't be able, I mean, I won't be able, I'll regret too much.

And I think that for me, I see that in every, in so many stories like everything all at once, everything everywhere at once. You see that in, shoot, death of a salesman. He's sitting up there and wondering what did I do with my life. So I'd like to say to Amanda. you're right where you need to be if you're there, because that means that if you're thinking that way, that you must be making an impact. People who don't make impact don't think that way.

And so I'm hoping that you're looking at the ways that you might have made impact. And I do believe that in a way you are right, times passing by, you're probably doing better than you think. Ditto. No question. I'm used to you. So many things that you touched on, the same things I would say. First of all, I think it's a note.

question. I think there's a nobility and a courage in even asking that. How do I know? I think she says she has a nagging feeling. How do you know that this is enough? And I think also because she's asking that question means that there is more to be experienced. She's willing and allowing something to come through. And I always say that everything you want wants you back. Everything you want wants you back. And because she wants it, it wants her to fulfill to step into it. And I think a lot of times the things that we want, we're so busy, like living life and trying to keep up and looking at other folks that we don't even stop to notice those things that have already mattered to us, already been meaningful, already been impactful. So instead of looking all out there to look within, so slow down and look in and get quiet and go, like, like, what do I really want to do?

What happens when I show up and do this and this and this? What is the impact on people and how can I just keep doing more of that? It may not even be something new. It's something that she's obviously already doing. And be, I always call it the sort of the pebble in the pond. You know, we think it has to be a big impact. The pebble creates all those ripples. So allow yourself to be that pebble in the pond.

And the impact sometimes, you know, you talked about fame and being famous and people think that they want that. But I think what people really want is to be significant and to be meaningful. And sometimes it's your kids that are watching. It's your nieces and nephews that are watching. And the impact that you've created for them is enough to create more of the ripple. And so she may not stand on stages like we all have. But she's created an impact knowing that I said a word to someone and that made them think. think differently and then they went and changed their life.

And just to allow that to, um, allow is my word. Just allow it to unfold. You want to add a brief thing in there because I, I'm just, you got something to bring it on home. No, no, no, I'm summing it up. So know that you're enough. Yeah. Right. You know that you're enough.

That's, that's one thing. And this one's really good that I'm going to take away is slow down to speed up because that, we use that on the court. Oh, yes. We use that on the. court. Slow down to speed up. Don't you have to train and stretch the muscle and get it ready so that then you can sprint or go fast to go slow and go slow to go fast. It's just change your pace and realize that there's some positivity there. And then the final thing you said Kim was a little is really a lot. A little can be a lot. It can be a lot. If you're fortunate enough to be able to do something great,

beautiful. But that doesn't mean that if you do something little, it's insignificant. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel. Thank you. Some of the moments I remember most as first lady, it wasn't the cover of magazine or the speech that I gave. It was usually a conversation that I had in a photo line with a kid that was shy that nobody saw. And that you could, with a hug and a couple of words and a, like, I see you. you see them walk to you one way and walk away a totally different person. You could see it.

And it would be like, if I could do that every day and nobody's looking, you know. That's when I felt like I had an impact, you know. Sounds too like you're talking about doing less but being more. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what's been impactful? Having the two of you here. Hey.

All right now. Wait, but before we, before my, you know, Brother's in always wrap-up mode. But I do want to, I do want to find out what are y'all doing? See, this is, this is. What is your birthday? I know she's a Capricorn. What are you?

It's April 21st. Oh, you're a Torres. He's a, Torres. It's the, I'm with the tourist. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Like, come on, all right, all this talking.

I know, right. And there's a time limit. And we have other things to do. We don't want to use your time. But I do want to know, what do you are, you know. You know, what do you all, what are you reading watching now? Reality TV, is sci-fi a thing for you guys? What, what's your guilty cultural pleasure? I'm not trying to kiss the ring, but later dator. I love that show.

Aspirational. Right, aspirational. The women are beautiful. The guys got their, you know, got their hookups. And I love that show. So I don't watch a lot of the more, what I would call more of the negative. Because I also, I've done enough reality shows to know that it's nothing real about it. It's, you know, orchestrated and structured a way for you to have certain reactions. I know. He's looking at me. I've done a few.

I was like, you know, you live in a house for two weeks with Dennis Rodman. The Surreal Life. Also a tourist, by the way. Wow. He's the sweetest man. Oh, he's darling. He's a doll baby. But anyway, so not that.

But later daters, love it. Are you doing more seasons since I'm here? We're working on one. It's up to the powers that be. It's got to come through it. Actually, I just work so much. I wish I could say. I've gotten a chance to see sinners four, five times.

Oh, that. Yeah. And I'm like that. Like, I went to go see MJ eight times. Like, I'll see something over and over again as if you could digest it and become it. But, no, I have to do more to, like, just pay attention. I'd like to read more. This has been a real treat.

What a delight. A real treat. A dream of a lifetime and frankly, so grateful for all the work that you do in the world. And more importantly, putting something like this out so we can meet you in this way is huge. It kind of lifts the veil. Yeah. It's been an honor, a delight, revealing, easy. Yeah.

And just kind of what I expect it would happen. So siblings can get along and also discover things about each other. they didn't know, which is freaky. You know? Yeah. You know. Well, so proud. And that you can get along well enough to want to play in the same.

Can you imagine? Good enough. I could do this with my brother. But just show it. It can happen. I can't. You know, goals. Right.

It's just the pebble of us. It's happening right now. It's happening right now. Well, we're proud of you all. You two. Thank you. And the entire cast. So please send everyone.

Our love. Congratulations on all the ways that you both are becoming. continuing to become. It has been a treat. Y'all, there's some funny, smart women. And more to come. Just keep doing some stuff. We'll do this again.

Let's, let's, let's. With different hair next time. That's right. I want to get a different hair. Yeah.