IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Come Back for Greatness with Allyson and Wes Felix

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

On this week’s episode of IMO, Allyson and Wes Felix join Michelle and Craig to share some very exciting news! They also share more about how their sibling dynamic has set them up to work together in their careers, how Allyson’s approach to the Olympics has changed over the years, and what brings them joy in their lives today.Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I started to hide my pregnancy. And so I would train while it was dark. I wanted to be a mother so badly. I wanted all the baby shower, the bump pictures. And my experience was just lonely, isolating. I barely ever left the house. When I did, I was in big baggy clothing. And we were doing this because even when they offered the 70% less,

it wasn't on paper. And so there was- And what was the basis of them lowball? balling you. I think it was really, you know, I was older. You were getting older and they didn't think you could do it. Yeah. And I think they didn't think that they had to pay me to do it. This episode is brought to you by ship. Craig. Michelle. Michelle. What's going on? It's Craig, Craig and Michelle. Michelle and Craig. Michelle and Craig. How about Michelle and Craig? Did we go over that? No, I think, I think Michelle and Craig sounds better, but we grew up. up hearing Craig and Michelle. That's right. I think Michelle and Craig and Craig sounds better.

You like that? But I'm excited about our show today. Because when we started talking about doing IMO and over the first season things, it's the show is becoming what it's going to be. Yeah. Right. And it's beautiful. I love how we're kind of unwinding what it is organically. But we talked about wanting to really get more siblings. Siblings, like situations that we could contrast and compare with our upbringing. Especially siblings who work together. And we did that with Regina and Raina. We've got a couple of people in.

But this pair, everybody will know who the sister of the team is, duo is. I've been a fan of hers for a long time. But we've got brother's sister here. You want to do the introduction? I do. We have Allison and Wes Felix. So I am excited because this is my first time meeting them. Not my first time seeing them, but my first time meeting them.

So I will start with Allison's bio. Allison Felix is the most decorated American track and field Olympian in history, earning 31 global medals across the Olympics and World Championships. Crazy. 31. That's a lot of running. That's a lot of medals and a lot of winning and a lot of placing and competing, along with multiple world records. At her fifth Olympic Games in Tokyo, 2020, she wore spikes from her own brand, Seish, making her the first track and field athlete to come.

complete to compete in her own footwear. So we're going to talk about that. And now Wes has a distinguished athletic and leadership background as well. At USC, he was an all-American and captain of USC's track team. So I can't wait to talk to them about, I mean, we were close in college, but it wasn't like you were playing ball or anything. Yeah, right. That's right. And then Wes founded Evolve Management Agency. shaping the brands of top female athletes, including his sister, Alison Felix. In 2021, he co-founded Seish, a woman-specific performance footwear brand. And in 2024, always Alpha, the first talent management firm dedicated entirely to women's sports.

Amen. So we got so much to talk about. We have so much to talk about. And we can't wait. So why don't you guys come on out. And Alex and Felix, welcome to IMO. Welcome, man. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a seat. Well, get all settled in to our little table. You said to cheer right. Got it ready. Don't have to squeeze you in. Well, you guys, welcome, welcome.

Thank you. You're looking great, big brother, little sister. I love it. Yes. Yeah. I feel like her maturity is maybe surpassed mine now that she's a mom. Yeah. Oh, yes.

Yeah, but he was a dad first, but I still think my maturity surpasses him. Well, I think that's a gender thing. I think it's a gender thing. And Misha's maturity level surpassed me when she was six. So at least she held out. Yeah. At least I held out for a little bit. She was bossing me around at six years old.

So growing up, how did you, when did the competition start? Like, did you guys play? Like, we played everything together because she was my first playmate. Yeah. So whether it was sports or games, boy games, cards, when that started for you and me early. The minute you could get me to do stuff. In the middle I was old enough for him to beat me at something, he would be like, let's play this game that I've been practicing for two years. I like your style.

Right there with you. Yeah, it was the same for us. Really early on, I feel like our family is just competitive. So that was, you know, that was the dynamic always. And then I was just the tag along, you know, whatever Wes was doing, I was trying to keep up. And so if he was playing with the boys in the neighborhood and they were playing basketball, I was, you know, not too far along, but he never let me win in anything. And then I also didn't, I was always Wes's little sister. Like I didn't have a name. So he was doing well. And when I came along,

you know, that kind of was the thing. And so I felt like I was always trying to kind of, you know, keep up with you. Yeah. It was interesting as you guys were doing the open and you were saying, is it Michelle and Craig or is it Craig and Michelle? And it's interesting. And for us, just when it switched. You know, it was always Wes and Allison, and it was, this is Allison, or Wes's little sister. Wes's little sister, yeah. And then all of a sudden, high school, it, like, turned. And it was like Allison and Wes, and it was that's Allison's brother. And it's been that way ever since.

We had the same. Ours was a little later when she became iconic as the first lady. And it's like, I became. I became Michelle Obama's brother. And I was more than happy to be that, you know, because she had been Craig Robinson's little sister for so long. And it was irritating at times. But you got to meet some of you guys.

Probably like you, Allison. I adored my big brother. I mean, there was never a feeling of competition we'd compete. But, you know, if he got something, knew I was excited for him, you know. So tell us about your parents because I want to, we miss our so much. Tell us how they influenced the people you became. Yeah, so our dad is a pastor.

Yeah. So, yeah, we grew up as PKs and our mom. Oh, is that a thing? P.K. Yeah. Yeah. Masters' kids. I didn't know it was called P.K.

That's because you don't go to church. That's true. That is true. I would not know it. Yeah. And our mom was elementary school teacher. She taught third grade. And so, yeah, they were very much people of service and, you know, invested in people.

And we always grew up here. And, you know, your parents are so amazing. They've done, you know, so much for us. And for us, I think they're really great examples of what heartwork look like and what passion looked like and really gave us, you know, a beautiful upbringing. Yeah, I think I always think of, you know, especially our dad, his dad passed away when he was eight. So he had such a different life than we did. But where he grew up, it was two streets over from where we grew up.

So literally exact same neighborhood, you know, just two streets over. That's similar to us. Yeah, we grew up in the community that our parents grew up in. Yeah, same thing. And then his dad passed when he was eight. So then they had to leave that neighborhood and they had to go out just kind of into L.A. And so to get to experience what it was like to have both parents there and alive, and, you know, I think we got to experience things that for him were his, like, hopes for us, but also he was so protective because I think he knew how fragile all of it was.

And for us growing up in L.A. in the 80s, 90s, like, it was, it was like a war zone there. And, you know, we lived in this beautiful little pocket, this gated little pocket, but it was still right in the middle of all of it. Well, that's all black neighborhoods. If you grow up in a black, I don't care what socioeconomic, at least when we were coming up, black folks all live together. So there might be a block or two or four. but you were surrounded by all of the black community, which I thought was a beautiful way for us to grow up. You know, because you were never too far. You never could get too big for yourself.

And I know growing up in our neighborhood, being kids that studied and spoke proper English, you know, you were living two lives. You know, you had to get to school, you know, clear and know how to act with your neighborhood friends, right? And then come back home. and straighten up and use the right English. It was almost like, you know,

it was a complete code switching. But I treasured that experience. I'm so glad we grew up with that. Both of you, and we'll talk about sports, but what's very clear in your career, Allison, is that you have a very high bar for yourself, period. And you put so much pressure on yourself. I want to know.

And Wes, you're probably the same way. But I'm just wondering where does that come from? Because your parents, you know, they're like, you succeeded when you graduated, right? Good people, not in a gang. You know, the bar becomes, I wouldn't say low, but I know our parents, they didn't put pressure on us to be anything other than good people in the world. You know, there wasn't like you're going to be an Olympic athlete. you're going to be president. You're going to, you know, it was just like, so where does that pressure for you guys come from?

Yeah, it definitely, yeah, it didn't come from our parents. And it's really interesting because they had no athletic dreams for us. So for me, it really, it just felt like who I was. It felt very natural to have these, you know, high expectations. But I think I did see, you know, my parents like work so hard at what they were doing. And so when I did find something that I was passionate about, I wanted to bring that same energy to it. And so I think that's what it was. I wanted to do it the best that I could. And that always looked like setting a goal. And then, you know, if I achieved it, then, okay, there's another one and there's another one. And it just kind of kept going. But it was really kind of internal for me that I, you know, that I kept pushing. You started with, or you played basketball.

Yeah, yeah. Where did the running come in? Because what I found with most basketball players, running is a punishment so you don't like to do it. Yeah. And then you have, so you went from basketball to running. Yeah. And I know you followed him with the running. Yeah. But where did the running come in?

For me, it was really just around school and like making friends. But Wes was at a different school. And so he was already running and he was already doing well. And so it was kind of a natural next step for me to try. I was playing basketball, but still hadn't made the friends that, you know, that I needed. I didn't find my group. And then that's really for me how, yeah, how I got introduced. That was the same.

Our dad was, we were out in new school and he was like, sports are a great way to meet people. Just trying to meet people. Just trying to make friends. Stumbled into it. Yeah. And then I think we were. Stumbled in. You know, you know, that's.

It worked out. Then we fell in love with it. And I think it was a huge part of our bond, too. It was like, yeah, like it was like the family business. So what was it like Allison going to the Olympics at 18? Do you remember that? Is that still fresh? Yes, very fresh.

It was everything was new for me because I had only really seriously joined the track team at my high school a little over four years before. And so everything happened so quickly. And so for me, it was like the, you know, the biggest competition that I've raced in. It was away from home. It was all the things. I didn't grow up wanting to be an Olympian. So it was something, you know, that I found much later. So I was really, everything that they had to offer, I was doing walking and opening ceremonies, trading pins, living in the Olympic Village. It was just so exciting. But when it came to the competition, I was still very much so that competitive, you know, athlete. And so I ended up getting a silver medal on that first. We saw the documentary. And I was, yeah, not happy. But just in terms of

context, because, you know, everybody should know you, but we are, we want to make sure that every listener understands. Because you, you, you were the, you, you were the, you, you, one of the youngest Olympians to run in your meet, to make that jump that quickly. Yeah. And I want to hear a bit about that experience because people didn't think, they thought you were going after the Olympics too soon. Yeah.

Yeah. You were a phenom too. So there was all this attention. Yeah. Can you talk a bit about that, the journey to the Olympics? Yeah. So I silver medal feels like failure. Yeah. It did. I was, I had done really well in high school. And so I do it justice. Do it justice. Was just a good thing because she's not going to do it. That's why the brother. That's why Big Brother's here. So Allison was state champion in California, which is a huge track state. One was your first state championship? Sophomore year.

So sophomore year was her first state championship, which just doesn't. That's insanely rare in California. And then she's on the cover of Sports Illustrated by the time she's 17 as a track athlete, which again, that doesn't just doesn't happen. When it was her senior year, she went to Mexico City. She went to a private school and she had a coach who was so dedicated. I think like it's such an amazing part of your story, just the way that your coach, like, believed in you and wanted you to have all the opportunities. But he said, hey, there's this pro meet you can go compete in.

We should go down there. It's in Mexico City. They ask you to come. They're going to pay, you know. And so our parents go down there and she runs in this meet against women who this is their job. This is how they put food on the table. This isn't fun anymore. This is their job.

They're not going back, going to the prom. No, no. She goes down there and she runs and she beats an entire field of professionals. Not takes third and beats most of the pros. She beats all of the pros. And she runs the fastest time in the world for any woman that year and then decided that she wanted to go pro. And so she became the first high school athlete to go directly pro. So I was talking with a friend the other day about how the FIFA World Cup is coming to the U.S.

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locally or globally, Shopify takes the guesswork out of starting a business. They save you so much time running your operations, putting everything you need in one place. They operate as your back office and so much more. So if you're ready to build your own empire, whether it's merch, products, or the next best idea, get on Shopify.com slash IMO and make it happen today. What made you decide to go pro? Yeah. It was a really big decision because, yeah, that wasn't happening in track and field. And the biggest factor was that the Olympic Games were going to be the next year.

And Wes was already at USC. And so I had this front row seat watching him compete and seeing what it actually looked like. And he had, you know, it was all about the NCAAs. And so he was all about the point system. And so he would have a lot of events. And, you know, if you wanted to do well at the Olympics, that was fine, but that was not going to be the primary goal. And so in really getting to talk to him and his experience, it was like if I really wanted to take it seriously to try to make the Olympic team, my best bet was going to be able to just solely focus on that and not run for the team. And I know, you know, I would have wanted to be a team player and have done all the things.

And so that is really what it came down to was could I focus? solely on trying to make the Olympic team. And it was a really, it was a decision that was really criticized a lot. And of course, we didn't have social media like we have now. Yeah. But, you know, I heard it and it was really hard. But I, my family, you know, they supported me. And, and yeah, I think I made the right decision for what my goals were. I still had feelings of missing out on the true college experience and, you know, being on the team and all of those things. But I, yeah, I went for, you know, I went for trying to make the team. Do you remember the first time you said to yourself, I want to be an Olympian?

It was really late. It was in, it was probably around the time a little bit before that race in Mexico City. Because for me, I had always looked at it as like, this is going to be college. You know, this is my ticket to. college and to get it paid for. And so I always had that mindset. And also because we found it late, I don't think I really knew it was like a career path. It's like he just run. You run in the neighborhood. Yeah. You compete in school. Yeah. And it's just so different than like the NBA or the NFL where you're hearing these like contracts and all this stuff. I didn't know it. No, we knew no one who was a professional track athlete. And so I think it was just, you know, even the possibility.

And then, you know, once I had done really well and I started to like look and see, oh, you know, there are these people who, you know, who do this for a living. It's like, oh, wow, that sounds amazing. So not too long after that race, it was like, okay, this is what I want to do and I really want to take it all the way. Well, speaking of kids just doing stuff, so you start managing Allison. That is a true kid's just doing something. Yeah, I just, how, you know. Yeah. Because you, how were you when you started managing?

I was young. I think I was like 24, maybe 25. So how did the, what was the conversation? It's so funny because I was kind of at this place in my career where I was looking for new management. I was going to a new sponsor. And so there was a lot of change happening. And I never felt like I had really been got the sponsors and the deals that I should have.

And so I was really on the hunt for that. And Wes was also in this moment in his career at a transition as well. He had a liver virus where it was clear that he was not going to be able to continue. And so I think everything was... Not in life. Yes, okay. Continue on in the sports. They're putting death on.

But it was kind of this moment that it just aligned. and you actually made a proposal. I think he put a proposal together to our parents like around representing me. And to you. And I called her Miss Felix. Are you still in college then? I just out.

I was a couple of years out of college. I had just been running for a few years. I was sponsored by Nike and yeah. And have the injury. And then she got her Miss Felix letter. So I guess the proposal was really great. But it was. But it was like this kind of natural next step.

And I had all the confidence. Like for me it was great because I felt like for the first time, like in my entire career, I could solely focus on the competition and the training and just say like, okay, you've got this other side. You know, I looked at her business and at the time she had like this sponsorship with Adidas and that was where like her income came from. But she had these outside sponsors and there were two of them. And one was Visa and one was Power Bar. And together, it was a combined $35,000 a year. And so I looked at that and was like, that sounds crazy to me. Like my sister just won an Olympic silver medal. She's 18 years old. She's like the youngest Olympian on the team. She's the youngest sprint world champion in history. $35,000 doesn't. I didn't know what a lot was, but I knew $35,000 wasn't a lot. What do you think it was that, why do you think you were underpaid at that time? Because it is true. You were a phenom, but you were making $35,000 a year. I think probably a combination of things, but I was at a large agency. And I think I, well, I felt like I was lost in the cracks. I didn't feel like anybody was really fighting for me. I think in especially being a female, a black woman, someone has to be out there. really going hard for you. And I don't think I was showing up in rooms. I don't think that,

I don't think I was really a factor in so much. I don't think anyone was really pushing for me. And so I think that all shifted when the person representing me also cared about me, you know, and cared about my well-being. And yeah, when that, that really shifted when we started working together and it's hard because, you know, everything is about the Olympic Games for us. That is our championship. That's the biggest thing. But it happens every four years. And the world only pays attention for, you know, those two weeks. And so all of your earning potential is really right there. But it's also the most, you know, it's the event you have to be ready for. And so there's so much that goes into, you know, the training, the day in and day out. And we do have a professional circuit that

we participate every year, but it's nothing like the Olympic Games. And so just the weight of that. And, you know, the opportunity is small. The window is small of your earning potential. And so a lot goes into it. And I always say it's, you know, for me, my race was a 221 seconds. And if you mess it up, you've got to wait another four years. And so it's not only the athletic pursuit of it. But the business side of it as well is like, how do we maximize this time that you don't know if you're going to go once or you'll have multiple opportunities. So I think it's really difficult for Olympians. And then when you start to even get smaller for, you know, for Olympians of color, for women, you know, the opportunities are smaller. So it's been challenging through the years to really be able to get out there.

And I always feel like for female athletes as well, is not only do you have to be extraordinary in what you do, but there's also this other thing where it feels like there's like the standard of beauty or there's, you know, you have to also be, you know, appealing in this certain way. And it, I think after a while just becomes exhausting. You know, it's like you're constantly fighting to make it. And, you know, sometimes you feel like you are not yourself when you're trying to, to fit this version of like, you know, what are they looking for? How can I be that when it's not

really who I am? And so I think it's really, you know, been a struggle. But I think definitely it was a turning point when we started working together. I felt like I could lean into more of myself and be able to honor that. I also want to just pitch, she runs the world, which is an amazing documentary that, and I want to talk more about that, that really, gives the audience a clear sense of who you both are. And, you know, character-wise as an athlete, so I want people to, because that's, it's, I know it's done, I've seen it.

Yeah. And it's played at the Martha's Vineyard African-American Film Festival. Yeah. But I hope more people are going to get to see it. But be on the lookout for she runs the world, and we'll talk more about that story. But you guys did something different to keep the light shining. Yeah.

Because we know Allison Felix. You know, we know you inside and out. So what did you all, what do you think the difference was for you in sort of maintaining kind of a high level of presence and building an economic model that could sustain you? I think it really was eventually doing things like outside of the traditional sense. You know, for I think a lot of stuff shifted for us when, you know, we started speaking out once we, you know, created our company and I was sponsored by, you know, Seish, our own company. It was like breaking outside of the mold of the way that things had always been done and understanding that that's okay and that's good. And I think it was also just being ourselves instead of trying to fit into this mold of what you think that they're looking for. Can we talk about what we're talking?

Yeah. Because you're killing it, winning medals, got big Nike sponsorship. You are the female athlete at Nike. And they are making money off of you. And you are, you're killing it. And then this wonderful thing happens that turns out to not. be a wonderful thing in sports. Can you talk a bit about? Yeah, I started a family, and I had, I was really scared to do that. You know, well, I waited first because I felt like I couldn't.

I had seen, you know, my friends, and I had seen my teammates struggle. And so I felt like, okay, well, if I do enough, if I have enough medals, then that won't be me. And I waited. I had gone to four games. I had six gold medals, and I felt like I'm in the safe zone. And I start my family. And even before I disclosed my pregnancy to them, our negotiations began at an offer of 70% less than what I was making before. And that just like, that just shook me because it was like, wow, they don't even know. And already this is in such a bad place. And so my fear amplified. And I started to train, I started to hide my pregnancy. And so I would train, while it was dark. I wanted to be a mother so badly. I wanted all the baby shower, the bump

pictures. And my experience was just lonely, isolating. I barely ever left the house. When I did, I was in big baggy clothing. And we were doing this because even when they offered the 70% less, it wasn't on paper. And so there was- And what was the basis of them low ball balling you? I think it was really, you know, I was old. You were getting older and they didn't think you could do it. Yeah. Right. And I think they didn't think that they had to pay me to do it.

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Visit applegiftcard. Apple.com to find the perfect graduation gift today. I found in representing Allison that people are afraid because I'm her brother. They dance around things and I'll try to just tell them. I was like, you know, I understand that's my sister. And also I'm not here as her brother. I'm here as her manager. And so like, I need to understand what you're talking.

So say what you need to say, you know. And something that they said was it's just business. And also, you know, she is getting older. And how were you at the time? Was I? Like 32. Yeah. Yeah, 32.

Yeah. She's getting older. And, you know, and as conversations went on and it got a bit more heated and truth came out a little bit more. Something else they said that I found like unbelievably. just offensive was, well, we've paid her a lot of money over the years. And when I remember, when the comment came out, you know, and you're kind of looking at a white man telling you, his exact words were, well, she's made a lot of money with us. I hope she's saved some. And, you know, and my comment was, and you've made much more money off of her than she's made off of you. And,

And as we went through the negotiations, you know, what became really, really clear to me was that this was just because they believed they could. It was because they could. And, you know, there's the parts of that that are ugly and horrible. There's parts of that that are just business. And you don't have to be amazing, great people to do business. It would obviously be better if you were, but you don't have to be. And I think what they never thought could happen is what did happen.

Which is. They never thought that we would actually stand up to them and that Allison would sit down. Yeah, I wrote a New York Times op-ed sharing what was going on. We had turned our attention away from the financial part of it and asked for maternal protections, which simply met the contracts are performance-based. And so they're created so that if you go to the Olympics or World Championships, you get a bonus. And if you don't, you get a reduction.

But if you have a baby or if you've just given birth, there was nothing to protect you. So I was simply asking for time to be able to recover after childbirth and not be further financially penalized. And at first, they said yes. And I was like, okay, then we can move forward. And when the contract came back, there was no mention of maternity, no pregnancy. And what we learned was that they were not willing to set that precedent for everyone.

They were willing to give it to me, but not for everyone. And so for me, this happened over a course of time. I ended up giving birth to my daughter. And there was just, to me, it just felt like unacceptable. You know, it just felt like I couldn't stand by on that. So wrote that New York Times op-ed. what so many women before me had also, who were under NDAs, had gone through. And, yeah, shared my truth.

And I think it was about two and a half weeks after that op-ed came out, that Nike changed their policy along with many other companies today offering 18 months of maternal protection. And, yeah, but terrifying. I bet. Terrifying. Really, really scary. I'm thinking back to something you said earlier about your parents being of service to everyone. That was your opportunity to be of service to everyone.

Because you could have taken your money in. You could have just said, okay, I'm hooked up like a lot of people do. And so kudos to you. At any point in time during that whole process, did your passion for the sport change? Like, did you feel like, oh, I'll show, I'm not. I'm through with this. I feel like I felt like I had a lot to prove after that. You know, it was almost like in going through that,

I knew I wasn't done. And I hated that, you know, I felt like they thought I was through. That now I was a mother. You know, I needed to be on to something else. I hated that I felt like I was being forced in this narrative that I did not connect with. You know, I knew that I still could make it back to the Olympics. I knew that I could still be the present mother that I wanted to be. And so the idea that I could not, I felt like I couldn't make my own decision, that motivated

me to say, like, well, I want to show, you know, the world that this is a possibility. And also, I want to show my daughter that, you know, when it's her time to do whatever, that you can absolutely do the things that the convictions of your heart and that you can do it fully, you know, in all the ways. And so that was the big shift that I felt. Instead of walking away from the sport, you walked away from Nike. I walked away from Nike and knew that I wasn't done. And Wes and I, you know, always figuring it out, figuring out what was next. We thought, you know, okay, we've got to find a new sponsor. And that was the task. But as we did a really deep dive in the industry, And Wes, I think really going into Big Brother mode, he was like, I just think that we should do this ourselves.

And I'm like, well, what exactly does that mean? You know, I had just had a baby, you know, all these things are happening in the world. And he said, you know, I think that we should, you know, build a shoe company. And that just felt also so big just coming from where we come from. Like, I didn't see the path to that. But the more that I sat with it, I understood what he was saying. It was like instead of begging these big brands to do the right thing, to build the thing differently, we could do it. And even though it was very ambitious, we did that and we learned that, you know, shoes were not being made for women.

And that took time to figure out what that meant because, you know, we've all been to the shoe store and the women's side. And I'm like, no, there's shoes. But as we unpacked it, we learned, you know, a shoe is just made off of a lass, which is a mold of. of a foot. And it's the mold of a man's foot used to make women's sneakers. And I had no idea of being a runner that I was running literally in men's shoes. And when we figured that out, it was like, wow, you know, we have this opportunity. We're absolutely where we're supposed to be and we can do things differently. And we can also see and celebrate women in a holistic way that we didn't feel like was being done. And I think, you know, when you've really given your life to something for so long

and to feel so discarded, it was very painful. And so it was picking up the pieces. And to me, to be able to make it back to the Olympics, to do it, you know, wearing our shoes was incredible and also in front of my daughter, you know, and really getting to, you know, one day fully be able to tell her, you know, what all of that means. I think it was really a full circle experience.

Also, it was COVID year. Yeah, it was a COVID year. So you also, it was so different, too. Like, first games, we were not. Yeah. Well, you skipped over the part that your pregnancy was not uneventful. Yeah. You know, which is, you know, the other powerful thing to watch in She Runs the World is just your physical stamina and your comeback.

Because you had preeclampsia. I did. And you had a C-section. Yeah. You gave birth early. So Cammy was premature in those days watching you and your husband go back and forth to that Nicky and that New Year's Eve when you could bring her home. Yeah.

I just, ugh. Yeah. It was heartbreaking. And I think even more so, like, I wasn't, I didn't realize that that was not an uncommon experience that so many black women have gone through that. and so many don't get to have that experience of walking out of the hospital with their family. And so that shifted my life. I just felt like we have to be doing more. There's no way that we can continue down this path, you know, for it to be more dangerous for me to give birth than it was for my

mother. I mean, that just doesn't make sense. And something like 80% of deaths and complications of women of color are preventable. And so that whole experience, you know, I think, think it gave me just that push that I needed to be able to speak out and to be able to do things I never would have imagined because that's so far from what makes me feel comfortable. But it's necessary because, you know, black women are dying, giving birth today in our country. Well, you were living out the full experience of the devaluation of women and black women through the sport and through in the world. I mean, West, like you said,

women are a lot of women we feel beaten down because there's so little investment in a woman's life. Yeah. And to see it in this contract negotiation where they essentially say, you're done, you know, we're through with you. You know, there are a lot of male athletes

that get legacy deals. Yeah. Where they're, you know, they are done. But, you know, the men around the table still see the value that they bring, which is how, that's the other reason how I think. They're making more money. You know, so the shoe situation is like, it's like our health. Yeah. You know, we're not even told about the dangers of giving birth.

Yeah. You know, studies aren't being done. You know, outrage isn't happening. Yeah. We're just, we're doing the most important thing, which is bringing life into the world. and nobody tells us about preeclampsia or morning sickness or what it does to our bodies. And now companies want to penalize female athletes in a pro-life world where we care so much about life. But we don't care about the mother who's giving birth. That's the full power of your story because there's so many.

You've lived out the complete disparity in health among women, black women, the economic disparity that we face as being a world-class athlete, an American hero. Thank you. I mean so much. Well, you know, we have a listener question. But before we get to the listener question, I understand that you have, you. you may have some news for us? I don't know if it's news, but I think one thing,

there's a thought that keeps coming back to me. And I've been thinking about honoring it. And it's just really the idea, a lot of what we've been talking about as far as women and I think when we get to a certain age, that sometimes we are told that our life should look a certain way. And so I've had this feeling. of do I want to come to L.A.?

Do I want to try one more time to make an Olympic team? And I keep having the scary feeling of it feels like something I want to do and the push to honor that. And not because I feel like I need to or that it's something around performance. But the feeling that I have is really around the narrative for women. And, you know, this idea of can we have ambition after achievement? Can we, what if there is more? And I think I'm deeply curious if I could do it.

I think it's really big and, you know, it's super, it's a big goal. And but it excites me and it scares me. And I think my first thought was, okay, this is something that I really want to hold on to and do in private. But I think that that also makes me feel like it's probably the right thing because it's a little scary. It's a little scary. And I think maybe it's something that other women can relate to. If there's anybody who should feel like when it comes to her profession, her sport, her life, who has nothing to prove, it's you. You don't have anything to prove. You don't need this. But if it's something you want, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because it isn't, it's not for them. Yeah. You know, it's for this, it's for Cammy. Yeah. It's for all the camis that come after. All the women who were told no, who stopped when they were told no. All the women who will continue to be told no. And how old are you now?

I'm 40. You're 40. You're a baby. I'm 62. And you're absolutely right. Those bars were false, you know. Those boxes that they put us in aren't true. They've never been true.

But because the world is designed for men, they create the boxes. They put us in. You know, even though there's something in you that says, I might be able to do. I have it. I have it in me. I am not who you say I am. I am not the box that you put me in. We all need a little bit of that.

I think it would be a powerful statement. And that's what hard things are. Yeah. You know, hard things are, and I learned this from my husband because I'm probably, I'm not as shy as you, but I'm inclined to step back from a thing and go, why would you do that? It seems like, you know, but I've got this partner who's like, why not? You know, if not us, then who, you know? So that's all it is. It's just saying yes.

And then turning your back to what everybody else has to say. Because the journey is going to require a lot of work and a lot of focus that you already know how to do. And I would just narrow in on the beauty of that process. And let it be whatever it's going to be. I just think the process of the effort is powerful. You know. And you're going to, you want the goal. You don't want to lose.

And that's great. Now she's getting into my lane. She's getting into my lane. As the coach at the table. Go put a coach. I would, I suspect there's a little competition a hall like still left over in you. And I would just be, okay, when does this train and start? Yeah.

I mean, LeBron is still playing. That's right. Yeah, you know. Let's put the team together to make this successful. Yeah. Who's coaching, who's training, who's setting the schedule? I mean, I've got goosebumps. I'm excited for you.

Well, I think it's also knowing that I'm okay if this ends with me not making it. It's the question of, is it possible? Well, I'm not sure. But I'm deeply curious. And I think just knowing that you can go for something, even at a certain age, that that doesn't have to be a limit. It doesn't have to be something that turns you away.

And not to poo-poo all of the warm stuff we're talking about. A lot of athletes don't take it to the next level because they're afraid that they might not make it. I'm trying to teach our high school kids that I'm coaching right now. The beauty of the journey is in the process and the journey itself. And that never goes away. Yeah. It's so true.

Yeah. I think failure or failure, you know, it's a part of it. I feel like I've learned so much more from the things that didn't go the way that I had thought they were supposed to go. And there's so much to be learned. And so there is something that excites me of what will I learn in this process, you know, and what is there, what is for me? You know, it may not look maybe like the goal that I have set before, but I think that there is something powerful there. It's officially patio season. And this year, Kelly and I were committed to sprucing up our outdoor space without completely blowing our budget. The idea was to make our patio feel like an extension of the house. and Wayfair made the whole process so much easier. We got new seating, a rug, some lanterns, and suddenly we're out there all the time.

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what signals tell you it's time to pivot and what criteria help you decide what to say yes to and what to lovingly release when your time and energy are finite? For those of us with many callings and limited capacity, how do we pursue the next thing without sacrificing impact or our well-being? It's a good question because I feel like it's what I've been

grappling with as well. I know one place I like to start with is asking myself, like, is there an impact here? Like, do I have purpose here? Do I have something to give instead of, you know, just thinking purely about, you know, things that are practical? And so I think that if there is something that's bigger than yourself also there, that, you know, that's a good indication that you're where you're supposed to be. So that's my first kind of thoughts. Well, and I, especially Ashley as a woman, like, guess what, we don't, we can do stuff just for us. Yeah. You know, I mean, because I'm just listening and it's like, guess what, you don't have to have a bigger purpose.

LeBron doesn't have a bigger purpose. Tom Brady didn't have, didn't have a bigger purpose. I mean, men decide they want to do it. They do it regardless of whether their family wants it or anybody wants it. You know, sometimes it's grounded. And what do you, what does your heart tell you you want? And I think as women, it's okay for us to look at what we want and to start from that place of how does this make me feel? what am I getting out of it?

And it's okay to start there as a woman. You know, we don't have to have a bigger purpose. Your goal, that's a lot of things that we will do around the table will impact other people. And that's for all of us as people who grew up with service in our minds, that's always going to be there. So it's not even like you've got to put that in your head or, you know, if Ashley doesn't have to put that in her head because it's already there. But I think it's okay to be driven by the thing that you care about. You know, I tell young people, if you don't know what you want to be, then start thinking about what you like, you know, what you enjoy. What, if you're going to do something really well, you've got to have some level of excitement to get up every day and train for the next several years to qualify for the Olympics.

You, Allison, have to want to get up every day. Because nobody's going to be watching the process. Just like you said, that's the curse of the Olympic athlete. You train in the dark. You leave in the dark. And there's one meet. There's one chance. That's all it is.

It's how many seconds? Yeah. 21 and 21 seconds. And then everything else, you know, people may not care. you may not get anything afterwards. So it's all about what you want. And I think for Ashley, and for anyone out there making choices, I think it's perfectly fine to start with what will bring me joy.

What will get me out of bed? And if the thing I'm doing right now isn't doing that, then let me take some time to figure that out. And I think young people have to understand that. In life, you know, you don't pick a one thing, oftentimes and do it forever. The world isn't even design like that anymore. You know, gone are the days when our grandparents retired from 35 years and got the gold

watch. You know, companies don't show that kind of loyalty to people as we saw with Nike. You know, so you have to be wired to have some level of flexibility to analyze where I'm now. Is it time for me to move on? And some of that's going to come from what's happening day to day. Are you lose, is there no longer a path way for you that makes you excited in what you're doing? You know, there may not be the support in your current activity that gives you the signal that maybe it's time for you to do something else.

So there are many cues in life, but the ability to remain flexible, you know, and to be nimble. You know, just even having a nimble mind in constantly thinking about your situation and what's coming next. I think that also helps to prepare you and to give you the clues to whether it's time to do something else. This has been great. You know, it has been, it's like talking to a mirror image. Yes, it's really wild. Without the medals, but. And the shoe company.

A few other ways. I think you're doing okay. But this is exciting. You know, I hope you document the journey. I know you might want to do it in quiet. But I think, you know, the way you train, the way you mentally prepare, you know, how you move through life.

You know, just as in she runs the world, that is a powerful way to tell a story. Yeah. It is a story that I hope people can connect with and I hope go through it with me. Yeah. So, yeah, I will definitely want to bring everyone in. Well, we're going to be there with you. We support you, cheer you both on. Please keep us in mind.

And if you want to come back on to talk about the journey as you're going through it. If you want to, you know, if you want to scream, yell, shout, you know, we would, we welcome you back any, any time. Thank you so much. And I, I know nothing about track, but I am a good cheerleader. So strong coach. Yeah. Strong coach and all. So, yeah. You get that early morning and you just don't feel it. Just just give us a call. I appreciate that. I will. How does it feel like telling someone outside of, you say that? You say that. She just told her mom yesterday. Oh, wow.

This is like, this is really working through it with you. It feels like, it feels good. It feels like it's something I'm supposed to do. Yeah. Like, no matter how it ends up. I think, you know, Craig, what you said, it's the journey. And it's one I'm excited to take. I'm a little scared.

But I think that, well, I hope that it's one that other people also can understand that, you know, we might be doing different things, but it's the same. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.