IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Forgiving Yourself with Mary J. Blige

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

Queen of hip-hop soul, Mary J. Blige, joins IMO for an honest conversation about healing, self-worth, and the journey behind her music. She reflects on navigating the music industry at a young age, learning to forgive herself, and how music became her therapy through difficult moments. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

When you said weren't working, what do you mean? Like, if something didn't happen, you know, if a record didn't sell or this didn't happen or, you know, this didn't get that many, whatever, I would go crazy on people. Yeah, yeah. Cursing people to oblivion and all that stuff. So when my drama album came out,

I was like, I don't want to release this album without apologizing to every single person at this label. Get everybody, anybody that did anything to me. line them up. I'm apologizing. I apologize to every single person. This episode is brought to you by Lily.

Hey. Hey, Craig. Welcome to IMO. It sure is nice to be here. I know. I haven't seen you in a second. I know. Yeah, we have a treat today.

We've got, oh my gosh, one of my favorite people on the planet. Yeah, you guys have met before. See, this was my first time. I'm meeting Mary. I know. You're going to be in for a treat because she's a real one. But this is the first time we've sat down for a conversation. We were talking about the one and only Mary J. Blige is here. But even though we've met and spent a little bit of time together, this is the first time we're going to really be able to talk it out. But I love her in all kinds of ways, just like everybody on the planet loves Mary J. Blige. But let's do a proper introduction. Well, Mary J. Blige is a singer, songwriter, actress, producer, and entrepreneur. Killing it. She is best known as the Queen of Hip Hop Soul with 15 studio albums, nine Grammy Awards, six BETT Awards, 12 N-A-C-P awards.

I want to see her trophy room. And one prime-time Emmy. So she out here acting, too. Is she going e-got it up in a minute? She's a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, received a Lifetime Achievement Award from BET and has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. So after this, I'm going to have to go outside and find that John.

So without further ado, Mary J. Blige. Mary. Hi, honey. That's good to see you. Thank you so much. So good. So good. My big brother. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Welcome to IMO, HoneyBunch. Thank you, beautiful. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. You got some stuff going on, don't you? I got a lot of stuff going on all the time. But you, what brings you to L.A. this, this, this, this.

What brings me to the West Coast? I'm about to do my first ever residency. That's, yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty major. So which arena? I mean, which casino? The MGM will be live.

Oh, my gosh. This is going to be a blowout. How have you been thinking about this show? I mean, is it you? Is it you and other people? Is it going to be a bunch of surprises? It's me. It's all about me. It's called My Life, My Story. So we're kind of, you're going to try to not making it to some theatrical, you know,

because the Mary J. Blige's a show was a Mary J. Blige's show. It's fun. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, we're going to try to, like, tell a story with, you know, pictures and, you know, just, I don't want to give it all away. Yeah, yeah. But the music is going to be up. The music is going to be up. And then we're going to have our moments of I'm going down and all that stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. What's what we doing with the fashion, how we think. thinking about that. Oh, we're going to go phrasing with the fashion.

But we're going to go like elevated. Yeah. Not super ghetto fabulous. Are we talking? We're going fabulous. Are we talking? We're talking moments like, I don't want to give. I know.

Because we're so close. Yeah, we're so close. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. It's going to shock people. Oh, my God. Okay.

And help me understand because, so what's the difference between sort of a residency and doing a tour? The difference for me is, so I've been touring for years. And the only thing that's the beauty about the residency, the gift about it is that you sit still and whatever mansion you're in in Vegas, you know, whatever you decide to do, and you drive 20 minutes to the MGM theater and you do your show. When touring was about, you get on the bus, you drive for 20 hours, you get on a plane. Yeah.

It's so I think the traveling is what created, you know, such a, you know, a bad taste. I got you. But other than that, the performance is what we do it for. But the traveling is the difference. So the performance will be the same each night or similar each night or just like. It'll be the same. Okay. It'll probably be different guests. But the difference is the traveling versus just sitting still and.

join, you know, walking into your living room full of fans. I mean, your music just transcends all kinds of stuff because it's so personal, you know. I mean, and it's reflective of what so many of us have gone through. But I like the fact that you say that you're going to run through your life, you know. Are you starting at the very beginning? Are you thinking about it in terms of your life when you were a child? Are you talking about the beginning of your life in the industry? I mean, how do you think about telling that story?

Well, I think I have to start from childhood because that's when I discovered that music was, you know, my first love. Singing was, you know, everything to me. It made me feel amazing as a child. And so I have to start from childhood. Music was the thing. You know, my mom, you know, was a singer, but, you know, she couldn't pursue her singing dreams

because, you know, she had us and she had a scholarship and um, don't make me nervous. Oh, don't be nervous. You among friends. You're making me.

I'm talking to my yellow palmon. You make him. I'm a little nervous. Give me a second to get my my words right. So anyway, let me get that story correct. My mom had a scholarship

for singing. And she had us you know, at a young age. And she couldn't pursue it because she had to take care of us. Right. So my mom was a woman who sang around the house. Yeah.

She was, I mean, she could sing anything like anybody. Man. So it all started there for me just watching her be a singer. So I discovered that I can sing too. When did you remember finding your voice? I mean, like, Mary, if I could sing, I'd be singing all day. He'd be so sick of me. Wait, hold up.

She sings, even though she can't. Well, of course, you know. All day. But, you know, when does somebody with the talent like yours, how old were you when you were like Dag? I sound pretty good. I was seven. What?

Seven. I was seven when I realized I could sound like anybody. Like I could mimic anyone. Really? I mean, like really do it. And I remember I did a talent show in school. And I sang Reunited How were you?

I was seven years old. Seven years old singing Reunited. And I sang the guy. You know, that's a duet. Oh, yeah. Are you saying both parts? I killed it. Now, did you have, you know, were you comfortable?

Were you shy? I mean, you could sing, but you had the performing thing in you then? I just always do, like when it came to singing, I didn't have any fear. Yeah. So I just did it. It just was something that, you know, that was in me to do. And so you go to the talent show, you sing it. Afterwards, tell us what you felt like as a seven-year-old walking off the stage.

Okay, you just killed it, like you said. Reunited, just reunited the auditorium up in here, you know. I felt good because everybody was cheering. Yeah. And the word was, wow, I mean, I can sing. That's what I remember in school. Did that give you a little cred? I mean, did you, were you able to?

You know. I was off from running after that. I was singing, I was singing in the house, singing with brushes, singing in the mirrors. It was on and popping after that. What about your brothers and sisters? You have one sister? I have two younger siblings, two younger siblings. And my oldest sister.

Okay. And so when did you realize, oh, man, I can make a living doing this as opposed to just I'm good at it and I'm singing? I didn't realize I can make a living doing. It was something I always wanted to do. But what happened was in Yonkers, in Westchester, there was a mall when we were teenagers called a gallery a mall. And they built a karaoke machine in the gallery of mall. And everybody was talking about it. One of my friends was like, Mary, you should go and, you know, record in the gallery of mall.

How were you? I think I was probably 14. And I went and I recorded Anita Baker's caught up in the rapture. because that was one of my favorite songs. And my mother's boyfriend at the time, he worked at General Rulers with this artist by the name of Jeff Rade. Jeff Rett was already signed to Uptown Records.

Remember, you called and told me that's... Oh, yeah. That's Jeff Rett. Okay. So he was an artist that was already signed to Uptown Records with Andre Hiro. And my stepfather gave the tape to him. He gave the tape to Andre Horeau,

who was the CEO of Uptown Records. Andri came to Yonkers to Slovon. And I sang the whole Rapture album for him. The album? The whole rap. Because that was my album, the whole rapture album. Where were you when you performed for him a whole album? In my living room in the projects.

So he came to, wow. He came. We heard the court up in the rapture tape that my stepfather gave him. He came to the projects. So you all are sitting around. Is everybody there, your brothers and sisters? is it like Christmas morning and Andre Harrell shows up at your house? Well, these guys that were trying to like, you know, manage me at the time,

they were the reason why I was even able to, you know, get this tape. So Reggie Johnson was someone that my stepfather, that Jeff Redd knew. And they told Andre Harrell, you know, about, you know, I guess how to get to me and everything. And they called my stepfather and they said, well, Andre's coming. So I had to meet him downstairs. And he pulled up in his BNW and he had a- Was it just him? It was just him by himself.

He from the polar grounds. Of course he's going to come to Slow Pond. He had a black and white polka dot shirt on and a sash and his glasses, you know, Andre. And he came upstairs and I sang Acapella. almost every song from the Rapture album. And the rest is... So what was his reaction? Did he play cool?

Well, he sat and listened to the third... You know, it must have been good by the time you got to the third record. He was just sitting there because Andre was always like cool. So he was just watching. And I didn't know what that look was. I guess that look was, wow, you know,

we got something here. We got something. Yeah. And my mom. mom was just looking all proud. You know, we didn't know, you know. And I wasn't, like, excited because, you know, being famous was just really far-fetched. It was something that we didn't think could happen to us.

But it happened. But I wasn't like, oh, yeah, I'm going to get a deal. This is like, yeah, this is what I do. I sing. This is what I do. No big deal. And you weren't nervous and nothing. Nope.

See, that's a skill to be able to be under that pressure. That's a capricorn. Oh, here we go. Under pressure. Right, under pressure, it's not a game. Capricorn. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. Mish, thinking back to when you picked up your first home, what was the biggest priority for you?

For me, I was just laser focused on location. I needed to make sure I was central and close to family. Yeah, that was the same thing. for us as well. I think when Barack and I bought our first home, we really only looked in one neighborhood. And that was Hyde Park on the south side of Chicago. It was down the street from where you and Janice and the kids lived, and that met the world. So we didn't even look in

neighborhoods that weren't close to family, where the girls would go to school, where we were working. So for us, location was key. I'm curious. If you were back in that position today, do you think your priorities would stay the same or has your perspective shifted a bit? That's a good question.

Barack and I talk about this a lot. And we've come to learn that community and family support matters much more than I think we give it credit for. You know, sometimes, you know, we see young professionals. They, you know, prioritize. living close to their job or taking the promotion. But as you grow your family, we found that just having people around that you can count on is worth a lot more than you think it does. So I think we probably would still prioritize location, community over a lot of other things.

I agree. I think young Craig would be very happy with the house I'm in now. But he he'd be even happier to see all the ways my family have made it our home. Also, the backyard. He'd love that. So, oh my God, you know I love my backyard. You know, when you do finally achieve that homeowning goal, it feels amazing. But getting to that point, that's where things tend to get complicated for a lot of people. Buying a home today is not easy with rising cost and a lack of clear guidance, leaving many feeling unsure where to start. That's why Progressive is here to help homebuyers get off the sidelines through their Open the House initiative. Right now, Progressive is expanding its up payment program, offering up to $13,500 each endown payment assistance to at least

200 eligible first-time buyers. That could be a game changer for home buyers who need a little help to close that last gap. They also offer practical tools. educational resources, and guidance to help people navigate the home buying process with more confidence. Learn more about the uppayment program and Progressive's commitment to first-time homebuyers at progressive.com slash open the house where homebuyers can access home buying resources and support to empower them in their housing journey. What was home like? What was your family like?

What was your mother like? My mother was beautiful. She worked two jobs. It was just me, my mom, and my sister. So it was just before my two siblings came, my mom raised us by herself and, you know, some, you know, the projects. Need I say more? No. Not a great environment.

But, you know, she was this little woman who had to be a man and a woman. So we were raised like that, my sister and I. But she was also this kind woman that would take in the whole projects if she needed to. She was just, she was a giver. She helped, you know, and she wasn't scary. She just, my mother was a thug. Like, she had to make sure her little girls was okay. So that's what I, the environment wasn't good, but my mom was, my mom was good.

Home was a, yeah, a safe space. Yes. Yeah. And then, you know, I know for us growing up, now we didn't grow up in the projects, but we grew up in a black, neighborhood where, you know, you see a lot. I mean, Craig saw more than me because he was a basketball player playing at the courts. And just they're just a way you've got to carry yourself just to get to and from, just to, you know, just to be able to exist and survive. And I was reading somewhere where you said, you said something to the effect that, you know, you didn't smile a lot because you didn't feel like people, people would take advantage of that.

smile. Like if you showed your vulnerability that that made you too much of a target, I might be misphrasing that. What a thing is this, we didn't smile too much and we didn't brag too much because nobody had anything to smile about and nobody had anything to brag about. But my mom worked, so we had a little bit teeny bit more than what everybody else had. So we would try not to brag about new sneakers and smile too much about, you know, anything because that was the environment. but you had to have a game facing order not to get hurt. So you go to the store, you get a bag of candy. If you don't share it, you got to fight two girls.

That's right. You know, so you guys are from Chicago, like south side of Chicago. You know, you're just bringing back some memories telling us the same thing. Because my dad worked and we had it just a little bit nicer than our friends. But sort of not, you know. But we didn't know it. We didn't know it, right? Yeah.

But what our parents did exactly what you're, mom did. You don't show when you got something nice. You have to have, you, you started learning at an early age how to code switch in your own environment. Home versus school versus the streets. Well, it depends on, it depends on where you. It's socioeconomic. On where you live and stuff. But I'm just, I'm thinking back on how your, your mom was showing you humility, but it was not out of courtesy, it was out of survival. Yeah, it was just something we learned to. We really learned

that because when you have to fight every other day, even my mom, come home from work, she got to fight the, you know, the biggest chicken, you know, on the planet. My mom is this big. So, we learned early, like, we got to chill. Like, we can't, you know,

even if someone said we was pretty, we can't act like you, no. Whatever it. We had to wipe that, you know, unless you wanted to be doing that, you know. So we learned early. And I think that that helped me a lot with this music business. How is it gone. Yeah, just not counting my chickens before they hatch and not sharing everything with people because everybody's not for you.

Something came to me today. And I know you heard this before. Favor is not fair. So everybody's not going to be happy. And that's the wisdom from how we was, you know, running up, you know. Yeah. Well, a lot of people want to be like you. They want to be, but they also want to be famous.

They want to be wealthy or they think they want to be it. A lot of people want to go into the music industry. It's a tough business. Can you talk about, you know, so you go from your living room. Yes. To signing. Yeah, so this is funny, but it's not. We signed a contract in the kitchen on the washing machine.

My mom didn't know anything. Of course. She didn't know anything about reading a contract. Nor did we care. We just, oh, we're getting out of here. Yeah. That's what was on my mind. Whatever was on that contract was better than what you had.

It was better than what we had. Not a lot of anything. Yep. And it was a way out. It was a way out, but it was a safe way out. Yeah. So my mom signed a contract. And this is what I would say in the music business.

I didn't finish high school, I didn't go to college. I would say this to anybody. Finish high school, go to college, take some kind of class because, I mean, by the grace of God, I'm here. Yeah. Because I didn't know anything about any contracts. I didn't know how much money I had.

I didn't know when I was broke or whatever. I was just living. You know what I mean? And trusting people that, Ended up, you know, couldn't be trusted. Ended up not being able to be trusted. Yeah. So get your education.

Take some accountant classes, some business school. Do something. You know, because it's everyone doesn't get a chance to survive. Right. What I survived. And. And what was that first contract like? I mean, I mean, because I want people to understand what a bad first deal looks like.

Well, you know, to be. be quite honest with you, Michelle, I don't know. Yeah. You know, the lawyers who ever had it at that point had it. And all I know was that everyone that was in my life, you know, including the lawyers, were people that were looking out for themselves. Yeah. You know, I don't want to start labeling things.

But everybody was looking out for themselves. And, you know, they were benefiting off of the fact that I was unaware. And that happened for a long time. So when I woke up and realized. you know, Mary, you have to get educated. You have to stay on your business. Because you're not going to go anywhere else if you keep this up. So I got blessed with some people that could help me to read contracts or read what I could read because contracts are this.

They sure. Who's doing that? That's right. That's right. But if someone, I'm not afraid to say, I've never been afraid. to say I need help and I've never been afraid to say I don't know. And I've been getting help and whatever I can't read or understand, I get my lawyers to help me read it and understand it.

And people who really have my best interest at heart, they'll explain everything to me. And it's still now. Yeah. I still need help because it's a lot now that I have something to protect. Right. Yes. Now I need more help.

Exactly. And more people I can trust himself. What point in your career, what age did you start to say, oh, man, I got to get, I got to figure this out on my own because I'm being taken advantage of. Let me see. I want to say it was around no more drama time when I was like, I'm still here. But my life is a mess. Yeah. And I need.

And for some reason, certain people was coming into my life to help while certain people was still there that was trying to destroy. So I had to keep those people in my life and take responsibility. My responsibility was I was ignorant to a lot of things and blame it on everybody else. So I took full responsibility. and I remember when we first put the No More Drama album out. I used to get upset and curse everybody out because my, you know, things weren't working. Yeah.

You know? And it wasn't their fault. It was my fault. When you said weren't working, what do you mean? Like, if something didn't happen, you know, if a record didn't sell or if this didn't happen or, you know, this didn't get that many, whatever, I would go crazy on people.

cursing people to oblivion and all that stuff. So when my drama album came out, I was like, I don't want to release this album without apologizing to every single person at this label. Get everybody. Anybody that did anything to me. Line them up. I'm apologizing. I apologize to every single person.

Where did you get the wherewithal to do that? To say it was time. It's time and here's what I have to do. I have to hold myself accountable. Do you know there are people who are 70 years old who haven't figured out that part of it yet? And you were doing it. You still must have been a kid then. I was, but it's the spiritual side of things.

And I started listening to a lot of like TV pastors and people that had information. And pride and arrogance and all that stuff. A proud and haughty person won't go further. You know, so it was a lot, I was getting a lot of information that caused me to pause and look at myself, you know? And so I realized that I was being, um, prideful and, um, disrespectful to people and just different things that made me be like, freeze. Just pump the brakes. I'm doing something wrong here. And I need to speak to people. I need to, I need to apologize to these people for my mistakes.

So that's, I just got a good look at myself. I think I prayed the prayer, Lord, show me myself. You know, and I still pray that prayer. I got to see me. We don't want to see ourselves because that hard look at who you truly are, good, bad, ugly, you got to be ready for that. Yeah. And I'm ready now. I look at myself all the time.

I'm like, it's okay. Yeah, yeah. At least you can see yourself. I mean, your rise was beyond meteoric. I mean, you went from your living room singing in the projects in front of your mother and the people that you love to dealing with a whole bunch of strangers and having your name being a household word. I mean, you have to be able to forgive yourself.

The little bitty Mary Jay, who was trying to navigate all that. And did no much at the time. Yeah, I do. I forgive myself. That's why I'm like happy with myself now because I forgive myself for not knowing. And whatever I don't know, I'm not ashamed. I'm not ashamed to say, I don't know. I don't know. Help me. So I'm interested in understanding how with all of the stuff that you've been through and you're learning yourself, the one consistent thing was your music. You all, you kept pumping out hits. and being good. How did you do that? Well, the music was my therapy.

It was the only way I can get everything out on me. So if you go back to what's the 4-1-1 album, that was me breaking fresh out of the projects. My Life album was when I spoke and said, I need help, I'm damaged, I'm messed up, and everybody else said, so away. Share My World was when I went and started doing my own thing and left some people behind.

That was another chapter. You know? I'm speaking from there. Mary album, same thing. I'm speaking from there. No more drama. My life was... I'm speaking from there.

The breakthrough album. It was a whole other level. I broke through. I'm here. And it keeps going, going, going, going. So it was just a way for me to get it out and talk to the people and have them talk back to me.

Did you know you were creating a whole new genre of music when you were doing it? Or were you just doing it? We had no idea. We didn't know. I was singing for my life. You know, hip-hop soul singing over hip-hop loops and being this little, you know. We didn't know we were doing. We didn't know it was going to even explode the way it did.

And to this day, everybody still wants to sing, you know, it's still doing it. it. It's still doing it. Yeah. It's still doing it. Our colleagues wanted me to tell you that when I was... No, he wanted to tell you. No, I was going to keep this to myself.

Now you see how he did he. Just blame what everyone wanted to do it. I was going to keep this to myself, but I had a mixtape when I was in college. He used to DJ. I used to DJ. He was Craigie Craig. Yes.

But I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I was a I would make myself a tapes for when I had company. What kind of company? Women. Craigie Craig? Women come over. And we were just talking about your music. And I was like, yeah, I think I had a Mary song on every fifth song like I had.

Yes. So he wants to thank you. Thank you. I wasn't going to say it. But then everybody said, oh, you should tell Mary that. I was all embarrassed. And now, I'm glad I told you. Thank you.

Thank you. That means a lot. The spins. Thanks for the spins. It's true. I'm Craigie Craig. One of my favorite parts of traveling is seeing how locals actually live. You can hit all the famous touristy spots, but I always remember the little neighborhood

coffee shops or restaurants or parks even more. That's the stuff that sticks with me long after you get home. I was back in one. one of my old neighborhoods for a visit, I was able to take my family to some of my favorite spots. We went by a couple of restaurants I love and the bookstore I frequented. And that's why I want to tell you about listing your space on Airbnb. If you're traveling at all this year, listing your home on Airbnb is not just a practical option for your space. It can also be a fun opportunity to show off your neighborhood. You can earn a bit of extra

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You talk about love, you know, the ups and the downs, the highs, the lows. What have you learned about life through the loves through the loves that you've had or the mistakes that you made? The most important lesson I learned is that you're not going to be able to give away anything you don't have. So if I didn't love myself. I didn't know how to love myself and need those relationships. So how could they ever work? Yeah.

You know, so now that I have this love for myself, it's wonderful. This relationship with me is the relationship that I work on the most. And so this relationship brings in other good relationships. You know, it makes other people happy because I'm happy. But if I'm miserable in a relationship, the relationship is going to be miserable. That's what I learned.

I learned that, you know, you can't give away what you don't have. Yeah, self-love is really a key thing. Our parents were big on making sure that we loved ourselves, saying exactly what you did. You can't love anybody else until you love yourself. Well, there's just so much focus on for women, finding a man, you know.

Yeah, females. It's our dream, you know, to be rescued. Or to be chosen. Yeah, to be chosen. To be chosen. Be chosen. You know? And so we're always working on us, not for us, but to be chosen.

And that's what we mess up at. So many years, you're working on yourself to be chosen by someone else. I'm working on myself to be chosen. by me. Like, it's all about me right now. Yeah. And it's going to continue to be. And this is work every single day.

I got to make sure that I can sleep at night before I can, you know. Sleep with somebody. Exactly. You've talked openly about experiencing abuse. And, you know, I mean, that's part of your story. It's sadly a part of too many girls' story. I mean, I heard you say, which I have said. this time and time again because I work on issues with young girls around the world,

girls education, trying to make sure young girls have some level of self-esteem because you've said this and I've said this, this world just not a safe place for girls. I mean, it is, the entire world is not a safe space for girls. It is a shame. I say it out loud because I want the men in this world, the leaders in this world to understand that we've created a place where most girls are, they have to fear for their safety every day. 100%. I mean, no little girl. And you know what?

No little boy is safe either. It's true. It's true. It's true. Children. You know, mostly women, we, you know, we've been through it. We've been through it, you know, five years old. why?

Why? What do you want to do with a five-year-old? Yeah. So, yeah. But, you know, we're here. Yeah. And with, you know, we've forgiven. We've moved past.

And it's still hurt sometimes, you know. But it's a blessing in that lesson. You know, it strengthened me. How do you find that? I mean, right now we're talking for other people who are listening who have experienced that level of abuse, but they haven't found a way through. I think the shame and the guilt is what has people in so much pain. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. But the forgiveness, the self-forgiveness. Yeah. is where when the guilt and shame starts to fade away. You know, you still see it. You still like, wow, why did that happen to me?

What did I do? Nothing. It's happening to everybody. So forgive yourself because it's not your fault. No matter what you think, it's not your fault. Forgive yourself. And don't feel any guilt or condemnation about it. And that's in a word, too.

But, yeah, like, God says no guilt, no guilt. No guilt, no shame. No, I'm not ashamed. I'm not going to let you this world make me feel bad anymore about something I can't do anything about. Period. And so much of it is here, you know. It's here.

I mean, I think we've come to a place in this world where we know better than to condemn the victim, right? But it's like that the conversations that we have when we're alone in our own hearts and heads that are coming from no other place, it's coming from within. It's like the call is coming from within the house, right? Yes. You know, you got to speak to the call. You got to know, that's a lie. I mean, you got to talk to it like you're talking to, like we're talking.

No, shut up. Stop. No. You're a liar. Like, for real. Here you go again. I'm hanging up. I'm hanging up. Exactly.

Like some people be casually, like, who are you like, who you talking to? Me. I'm talking to me. Ooh, I've got a bunch of people who are listening. I'm like, are you talking to me? It's like, no, I'm talking to me. But it's real talk. It's real live talk.

And I think saying things out loud, too. I know it's like making the pain real and putting it on the table. You know, because if you keep that pain in here, you know, all you are just carrying it. You know, other people need to see it and hold it and share and carry that pain. I think your music does that for, I mean, I mean, just watching any audience reaction. Yeah. It is you putting your pain on the table and you watch the power of what happens when other people pick it up. And they will.

You see it every time you perform. Yeah, that's what happened when I released in My Life album. Everybody said, wow, Mary too? Yeah. Wow, we love her so we can speak freely too. Yes, you can. You don't have to carry the secrets that's going to kill you. Why carry a secret that's going to kill you?

Talk to somebody about it. Anybody, it doesn't have to be somebody you trust. Yeah. You know? That's how you get it out. That's how you know. I'm just wondering, how do you think about alone time and loneliness? Do you ever feel alone?

Do you ever feel lonely? Sometimes I'm lonely, but I'm alone a lot. Like, I'm in my home a lot, but we have a good time, though. Mary and Mary, together, we are happy. We have a good time. I make sure we're. We have a good time. We buy ourselves.

We eat. I love to eat, by the way. I love snacking. I love watching movies. I love laughing. I love talking to myself. I be trying on clothes. I be playing music.

You know, I talk to, you know, some friends or something on the phone. My sister or somebody, you know. And it is what it is. I accept it is what it is. I'm not trying to have company and friends. I'm just taking it as it is. I'm just picturing you on your couch talking to Mary, Mary and Mary. Girl, what we're going to eat next?

But Mish talks about, she talks a lot about having a core group of friends, though, that you can rely on so that when you are feeling whatever, alone, lonely, or you need some feedback, some true friend, some truth. Yeah. And I always, I listen to her because I have, you know, guys do have a cadre of friends, but we don't talk. Well, no, they all do. We just don't talk as much. Do you have a group like that to fall back on or are you falling back on Mary all the time? I have a small crew of fabulous women that are my friends. I'm fabulous.

Like this type of conversation, fabulous. I mean, beautiful. They really have my best interest. They're my family. We all live in the same neighborhood. You know, we're not sitting at the table and wondering who's going to pay. We're fighting over the check.

You know what I mean? Like, it's not, you know, it's that type of thing. They don't want me to pay for anything. They don't want me to do nothing. And I'm trying to pay for everything. Like, oh, sit down. You always pay and sit down. And if I need, I use,

each one of them for different things because they're all built different. But we all share what we want to share. But they're there for me when I need them. Yeah. We have fun. And are these folks over time,

childhood, have you picked up friends? I, you know. These are my adult friendships. I've known them for about 30 years, though. Uh-huh. I barely have any of my childhood, you know, friends. Two of them, one of them passed away.

So I have one left. And yeah, it's just, I've known for 30 years. They've been there and we're still here. Yeah, yeah. Good group of women. You know, in the research that I was doing, I found that you were very intentional on not having children of your own, which I think is a pressure that a lot of women

feel that they have, we talk about pressure on women, they feel like they have to have children. Can you talk about why you chose not to? Well, I don't want to say, I said a lot of things when I was younger because I didn't want to have kids. You know, I saw a lot of people struggling. I saw a lot of, you know, my family members

needing babysitters and, you know, them not having a choice, you know, no freedom. So when you're younger, that's the choice. Those are the words you make. Those are the choices you made. I don't want any kids. But then when you get older, you start to see how valuable their teenagers are to them. Their kids are to them.

You know? So now it's like, oh, man. But at the same time, it's like, oh. But I think you give, I think more and more women who are making choices for themselves, period, whatever those choices are, you know. I think more men need this. Young men need to have more options of what it means to be human. You know, I mean, I think the options for young boys are very narrowed. What does it mean to be a man, right? I mean, there are pressures. It's like you've got to be a competitor.

You got to be a winner. You have to have a certain kind of job, right? You have to not cry. You have to be athletic. It's like still a narrow definition, even though I think more and more parents are raising kids, young men to think broadly. Same is true for young girls. I mean, we've done more work in society today to help give girls.

more options of who they can be. You can be a leader. You can be a mommy. You can be a wife. You can be a, you know, you can be a professional. You don't have to be a mother. That doesn't make you whole. You know, because just like with everything else, if you're not a whole person, a child will not do that for you. It won't complete you. You will just now be disappointed that this other human being didn't fulfill the holes that were in you. And now you've got a child that feels burdened by filling your holes. You know, you got to be a whole person. You should want that even more than wanting to be a parent.

You should, again, want to figure yourself out. You got to get to that. Got to get to that. Yeah. And don't make yourself miserable trying to have what someone else has. That's their life. You have yours. Grammy, Emmy Award winning, an Oscar-nominated superstar.

Mary J. Blige presents My Life, My Story, the Las Vegas residency. Mary J. Blige, performing Adobe Live at Park MGM. From October 23rd to 31st at February 12th to 20th. Get tickets now at Ticketmaster.com. Mary J. Blige, bringing New York to Las Vegas. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. When you move to your new place, whether it was in New Jersey or D.C., was there anything that you immediately did to make you feel settled or comfortable? I think it's, for me, it's when routines are.

in place. Kids are settled, although our kids are grown now, but when we were moving, they were little, you know, when they felt settled in a new school, and they started making friends, and life started to feel more routine. That's when it starts to feel like home. Going through the home buying process with no experience can be quite daunting, but Progressive is here to help make it all a bit more approachable. As part of their Open the House initiative, Progressive offers practical tools, educational resources, and guidance through their website to help people navigate the home buying process with more confidence. What's more, Progressive is also offering up to $13,500 each in down payment assistance to at least 200 eligible first-time

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therapy for me. But just to be clear, I am a firm believer in actual therapy as well. Therapy isn't only for moments of crisis. It's for anyone who wants more support, clarity, or tools for navigating whatever life throws at them. Grow Therapy can connect you with thousands of licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, including nights and weekends. You can search for what matters to you, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and get started in as little as two days.

One thing I really like is that there are no subscriptions or long-term commitments. You simply pay per session, making it easier to find care that fits your life. If there's something in your life you'd like to change, Grow therapy can help you start. The therapist you want takes your insurance on Grow. Grow accepts over 125 insurance plans. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0, depending on their plan. Visit growth therapy.com slash IMO today to get started. That's growth therapy.com slash IMO.

Growth therapy.com slash IMO. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. And see what Shopify can help you accomplish. Well, I want to shift to fashion. Okay. Who you loving? Who you, who, like, okay, you can't tell us what you're going to wear. for the residency, which I understand.

But are you working with any designers that you're excited about? Who are you loving? What kind of, what, what, how would you describe your look these days? Me, I'm moving away from first lady dresses and A-lines to just kind of like, looking fly, period. You know, just kind of like, whatever. But I know that at this age, I feel like, let me, let me, let me. Let me play with all facets of myself.

You know, I'm not saying that who I was as First Lady was not a part of me. I enjoy the dresses and the gowns and this and of that. But I also enjoy a nice pair of jeans, you know, a cute little top, you know. What are you into these days? Well, I can go from chains this big to change this big. Yes. And dainty. So this is dainty.

This is where Mary is right now. Mary is on some really soft, beautiful. You see my nails. They're not even long with all kinds of. I'm just in this, wow. Yeah. Exploring this woman. This woman is soft and peaceful.

But still, you know, she got a little something. Classy. Yeah. It's comfortable. Comfortable. That's the key word. Comfort, you know, just playing around with whatever I want to do.

Now, I've done, you know, rings on every finger, bracelets up to hair, chains down. And I can still go there. But I'm also her, which I've never really got into her. Yeah. This her. I like this her. Yeah. She cute.

She cute, girl, with your little dainty pink nail. I like that. Craig's like, I don't have anything to say about fashion. No, I was going to say that I'm built by dress for comfort today. But I wanted to look a little fly. Unlike what other day. I wanted to look a little fly. This is him looking a little fly.

This is for you. Your jacket is nice. Thank you. Mary Jay said your jacket is nice. My jacket is nice. That's because you're a nice boy. But what's you watching on TV? Are you a TV?

Yeah. What's you watching? I just finished the second season of Paradise. Oh, yes. We had Sterling and his wife on. They are great people, great people. But that's second season, it's crazy. It's so good, man.

I can't wait. So you like the drama types? You like the suspense? kind of things. I like drama and horror. Oh, horror. Oh, I can't. I'm too scared of horror.

I can't believe my fellow Capricorn. Really? That's all the Capricorns. I know we watch horror movies. I'm watching it like this. And Barack, he's really, he just like, he has to warn me ahead of time.

He's like, no, you're not going to like this. And I'm watching it looking down. It's probably gory. It's bloody. I don't like Gora. Okay. But I like horror, like ghosts and demons. I like the conjuring, you know, like stuff like that.

Okay. I'll see. I can't do the conjuring. Yeah, that's spooky. How are you thinking about your acting? Are you producing more? You've got parts coming up. You got projects that you're in that you're excited about.

Or can talk about. Yes, projects that are coming up. Projects that are coming. Mm-hmm. And am I doing someone acting? I am. Yay. I am.

How has that transition been like for you? I mean, do you feel about acting like you do about singing? Like, I know what I'm doing. I know what a good song sounds like, I know. But you're like, no. But you're so good. Yeah, but I'm still not sure. You know what I mean?

Okay. You're in that, the insecure phase of your acting. Okay. Yeah, I'm not like, I'm not Angela Bassett or Merrill Street. Yes, yeah. Mary, trying to figure it out. People are like, oh, you're so great, you're so good. In my mind, I'm like, not yet.

Do you like watching yourself? No, I don't. Yeah. I don't like looking at myself. But I do it because I have to. It's work. I don't. He's looking at me because I don't.

Yeah. I still hate it, but I have to. And I see it, I'm cringing like, oh, man, I got to fix that. I have to fix this, I have to fix that. But I have to look at it. Yeah. Yeah. And then sometimes you'll look at it and be like, damn, it's not that bad.

Right. That's right. I'm pretty good, right? Yeah, you start to see what you need and what you don't need. Yeah. Michelle is like me when I was younger. I hated the sound of my voice. Did you?

Oh, my God. I hate my. Speaking voice. I sing everything. I just hated everything about me. Now I've listened to Mary J. Blige. Everybody else is. I listen to my stuff.

I'm like, wow. Oh, man. I'm really good. It's like, listen to another artist. Look what I missed out on. I miss it. Do you have a favorite album? Oh, man.

My life album is one of my favorite. Yeah. Well, that's a good, good. You have good taste. You've got good taste in Mary. I do. Who else are you loving these days, artists? So many people right now.

I love her. Oh, yeah. And she's a sweetheart. Yes, she's beautiful. You haven't on a show yet? No, no, I've just got. Yeah, we got to get. Okay, Gab, we got to get you.

I'm going to work her, but she's a sweetheart. But she's shy, too. Yes, yes, she's very, very, very quiet. Yeah. I love her. Alex Isley, Jasmine Sullivan. I was trying to get to her concert. Miss that.

Miss that. That's what I still love. I love going to concerts. Now I will. Oh, well, see, now I'm going to be. I'm just like you. I was thinking, yeah, if I had to answer this question, who am I listening to?

Grandfires. I like Teddy Swims. I'm like in Thames. I love Tim's. Oh, yeah. Love Dolce. Summer Walker. I mean, I just love raw talent.

Somebody that can, you know, without a band, they can move you like you. Well, thank you. And thank you. I was so honored to perform at the inauguration. I was going to ask you. That was like. Wow.

It was so nice. At the state dinner. But the actual inauguration. You did. Right. That's right. That was. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, no, that's how we felt too. One of the greatest moments in my career and seeing you guys, you know, before he goes up and, you know, that was big. And thank you. And I'm sitting here with you. This is crazy. I know. It's good. It's like the first time, you know, the time I remember most because the inaugurations are just, you know, and I'm nervous. But at the state dinner when you performed with. the French president.

Oh, yes. I remember that. See there? You like me. It's like, oh, yeah, I did do that. I did do that. You performed all. We were sitting right there.

Right in the front. Like right here. Yeah. It's like, I was nervous. I was like, go, girl. Go. Did you feel me cheering you on? I saw you.

I saw both y'all. I was like, ooh. Do you still get nervous? I do, but not like that. Yeah. You guys would have. President, First Lady, y'all right here. In my mind, all I could think of what a train wreck I was.

No, really? What do you mean train wreck? Child, please don't make me talk about it. If only you knew what my life was at that very moment. Okay. Just notice, I'm here, I'm better, and I'm here again with you. Yes, you are. And a better mind frame and a better,

everything is better. Yes, all better. But see, the thing is, it's like in that mind frame, you were still amazing. I mean, and that's the thing. Thank you. That's the work.

Thank you. Because it's like, I've been rooting for you forever, you know? Thank you. I know through your story, through your songs, what you've been through,

what you've been caring and what you've been trying to grow from. But all the while, you were always enough. you were always more than enough. I'm just blessed that you are at the point now. And sometimes it takes time. It takes age to own this wisdom.

That I can see it. That you can see what we all saw. She knows what she's doing, and you know that now. And you were offering that to so many people, you know, that insight, that, you know, that acceptance, you know, that growth. and doing it through music, oh, just it stays with you. You can carry it. We can carry it with us.

Thank you, Michelle. Oh, my good. Thank you so much. You may be blush. There we are. We'll shift because now we'll shift to somebody else because we like to take time on IMO to help some other people. Okay.

And we have a listener question. From your neck of the woods in New York. Maria from New York. Right, Maria. I have a good friend who is recently engaged to her boyfriend, who I unfortunately cannot stand. I feel like my friend is a different person around him, and I worry our relationship won't survive if she stays with this guy. He's so emotionally immature, and every time I see her with him, she's basically having to appease all his moods. He gets annoyed by practically everything. As her friend, do you think I can say something to her and how?

or do I have to let things just take their course. Maria from New York and she's in her mid-30s. Okay. Does it sound like she's in any type of danger? It doesn't sound like. I think she just doesn't like this guy. I think she should, I think she should just chill. Don't say anything.

Let life take his course because she can end up without a friend. Mm-hmm. Don't say anything. Just love her through it. be with her, walk with her, talk with her. If she asks you something, then you speak to her about it. Don't give you two cents if she don't ask you.

I completely agree. Completely. No, in thinking about this, I think about, I was thinking about it from a guy's standpoint, obviously. And I've always felt like you have to be really careful when you give people advice about a loved one. Because what happens is they will forgive the person before you forgive the person

and they will forgive the person before they will forgive you. And to your point, you could lose a very good friend if you don't hold your tongue. It's the truth. If your friend wanted your help, she would ask for it. She didn't. So just love her through it. I like what you asked first is, is she in danger?

Right. Because that's an important caveat, you know. I mean, because sometimes, you know, if this were a more urgent situation, you know, I don't think we can, I wouldn't want to see my friend in harm's way. Right. You know, I think I would risk the friendship if it were a situation where he just wasn't a jerk, but he was a dangerous jerk, you know. But if he was just a jerk, what would

you do? I probably would not, unless asked. I mean... Please, she would say something. Why would I lie? No, I'm just saying, I think you would say something. Why would I lie right now? I'm not saying you're lying. I just say you

you, I think you would say something. I'm in situations like this all the time. You know, we're friends. Tell us more. I have to be, I have to be, I, more importantly, have to be careful about what I say about people. Now, if somebody ask me, which people do, what do you think of blah, blah, blah. People ask me all the time. I don't know whether,

maybe nobody's asking you what you think, but people ask me what I think all the time. Now, if you ask me, I will say, tell the truth. I'm not going to, I'm not going to be like, he's great, you know, if it's a serious question, if They're showing doubt and, you know, but no, if somebody seems happy in their situation and I don't particularly like them, you know. Yeah, leave it alone. They might see it because I'm not going to be around you, you know. They might get the hint. You know, I might limit my amount of time being around that person, which might mean that I'm limiting my time being around my friend.

because, you know, your friend can make a choice and you can make a choice too. You know, I mean, you can love somebody from a distance. You know, if this person is toxic to your space and she loves them, doesn't have to be toxic to my space. Right, yeah. Because I also have to protect my energy, too, you know. It's like, and, you know, nine tons of ten people do what they want to do when it comes to love. You know, you do learn that. You know, you can't talk people out of anything. When it comes to how they feel, people make some oftentimes make up their minds. Their minds are already made up,

and you can see it, you know? I mean, if the, if the guy is an obvious jerk nine times out of 10, she knows it. Yep. She knows it. It's like, unless she's blind, you know, it's like, well, you see it, you know. So if you like it, I love it, you know. If it's not hurting you, but don't ask me. Maria, I hope that was helpful. Oh, yeah. Say, oh, yeah, there was a person behind that question. Sorry, Maria, yeah, that was for you.

Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you. Babe, thank you for taking the time to be with us. It is, you know, you are just, you're a blessing. You're a gift. Thank you, Michelle and Craigie Craig. Craigie Craig. That's how you remember.

Craigie Craig. Thank you both for having me. This was a blessing. Thank you so much. Yeah. And you were going to kill it on the residency. I'm going to do my best to get out there. We'll get the dates to make sure we share the right dates with the listeners.

But I know it's going to be the bomb. Yes, it is. So it's like, it's Jordan speaking. Jordan going. Yeah, this is the Jordan. Going out on the court. But thanks for taking the time, babe. And we will see you out there for sure.

Break a leg. No. We're not breaking no legs. I thought that was what. No, we're not breaking legs. We just say the power words. Okay. No.

Okay. All right. Don't break the legs. There you go. Kill it. Kill it. Yeah. That's what you do.

Thank you. Jerry J. Blyde. Thank you. Love you, babe. Obama. Craig. This was great. I had fun.

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