IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Learn to Lead with Dawn Staley

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

On this week’s episode, college basketball coach and former player Dawn Staley joins the show to answer a listener question about leadership. She shares her own journey through the fledgling WNBA, her childhood growing up in North Philly, and what helped her to learn how to lead. Plus, Dawn shares her surprising true crime obsession.Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I do watch sports, but I'm a little morbid. I like, I like crying. Oh, yeah. I do. I like crime. Like, if I could go in person to trials, like, the, like, I did, I went to a double murder trial in, in Columbia, South Carolina. Just for fun. Yes.

Like, it's different. Like, TV does it no justice, y'all. It's like, you want the real thing. I want the real thing. This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Chase Home Lindy. How are you today, my brother? I feel really good. You know, I was had one of my colds recently, but I feel great now.

That's good. I just needed a little sleep. That's good. Too much running around, chasing around those boys. Those little boys. You know, it's really fun being an AAU coach, though. You know, our guest today is a big-time coach. I'm excited to talk to her.

But you know, before we bring Dawn out, let me just tell you, I want to, you know, you and I both were gifted Rivians. Yes. And let me tell you, so I've had mine for about, for a couple of months now. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is now my primary car. Of course it is. It's my primary car. You got that blues.

that is like, spectacular blue. It is very noticeable. It should have a different name. It is. Does it draw a lot of attention? What's the blue called? Rivian blue. It's called Rivian blue.

So do your neighbors like see you coming? Oh, everybody sees me coming. And, you know, we've now taken it on some further trips and the kids love it. Mm-hmm. You know, you can, they like to sit in the third row and put the second row down and sort of put their lads out. Yeah, we'll go far places. Well, I'm excited. I've tested it out. I have driven around the driveway. But I'm going to get out on the road this summer and it drives so smooth, so easy. I really love the car.

So I'm glad you're happy with yours. The family is settling in as Rivian owners. We are. We are. Congratulations, my friend. So I am so excited about our guest today. I am too. I really am. First time I'm meeting coach. Well, we were fortunate enough to get coach Dawn Staley on ways to win. Yeah, yeah. And she was fantastic. And she's done a lot for the coaching world. You know, she's done seminars for our National Association of Basketball Coaches,

which is the Men's Basketball Coaches Association. She's done stuff for the Women's Basketball Coaches Association. She's the head coach of the University of South Carolina Game Cox. Yeah. Women's basketball team, a three-time Olympic gold medalist, and a Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame inductee. And her debut book, Uncommon Favor, is out now. Please welcome our good friend now, I guess we can call her Dawn Staley. Welcome, welcome to IMO.

Good to see you again. Oh, wonderful to have you with us. Oh, my goodness. Well, welcome to IMO. Thank you. Congratulations on the new book. It's been a whirlwind. Yeah, I can only imagine.

And let's tell listeners when it came out, came out May the 20th. Yeah, yeah. And when you write a book, you don't know how it's going to be received. Yeah. You're just writing it out of love, out of probably,

not wanting to forget. So you got to put it down somewhere. And then just my mother. My mother was a big, big, big influence of my life. And I just kind of wanted to pay tribute to her. And the things that I say raised me, like basketball raised me. That's right. North Philly raised to me.

And it's a tribute to those three things. but everybody that played a role in it. Yeah, and I can imagine that it's well received because it's a beautifully written book. I was saying that your upbringing, your relationship to your mother, your feeling about your community, Philly, the neighborhood you grew up,

it's so reminiscent of how we grew up. You know, my memoir becoming, I understand that, wanting to pay tribute to the people who brought you where you are. Talk a bit more about what it was like growing up. I actually thought it was great. I never had a care in the world. I mean, my mother was a disciplined mother. So, I mean, I did have a care in the world when it was going against what she wanted.

I did. But I felt like I had everything. Like I felt like I had a desire to compete. I felt like I had a discipline in the household. I felt like I had friends who really, really understood and believed in friendship and camaraderie. I grew up in the neighborhood and the projects. Like you would never know. Like the block that I grew up on, you would never know it was low-income housing.

Yeah. And everything to do. with manicure lawns. Like, adults taking care of the neighborhood. Friends, you can really count on. Like, you can have an argument with one of your friends. And then the next moment, you're playing basketball, baseball, football with them. And it didn't matter.

It doesn't lead to anything besides strengthening your friendship and your trust. I mean, I wouldn't trade it for anywhere else. Or like anywhere else in the country. And I love the way you full-throatantly embrace our communities because a lot of people out there have different views of what it means to grow up in a poor or working class minority area. They think it's all, is it sad? Is it hard? Is it dangerous? But you paint the real picture of what life is like for kids like us growing up.

These are families. These are people who work every day, right? How did your mother sort of help you find your way as the youngest, as a kid who was, you know, naturally shy? And, you know, you speak about her and her. She sounded a lot like you, that she was a tune. She was a listener in order to raise you all and while she was working. She had to be, you know, busy but keeping an eye out. Talk to us about how she helped you become who you are.

She helped me become who I am by not sparing a ride. Yeah. And that helped shape me. And I feared my mother. Like it was a, you didn't want to, you didn't want to break any rules. You didn't want to, you know, get sent home with a note. You didn't want to get suspended from school. So she shaped the discipline in me.

So how have you taken that? from your upbringing and implemented on your current players who were brought up differently than you were? There's a lot of communication involved in it. And it's a lot of inclusivity. Like young people talk to their parents a lot, like every day. They do. Which is, which is. But they don't talk to each other.

No. But they talk to their parents. So I have to find a way to talk to the parents like me. I forged that relationship with the parents. So if they're talking to their kids every day, I want my message being said to the kid. Like, it is that way. And then I condition our kids to get an understanding of how I like to operate.

Just clearly, it's not like, I don't have team rules. They're just character traits. Yeah. They're not like rules. Like beyond time, that's a character trait. Oh my God. Communicate. Can you say that again?

That's a Robinson character. It is. It is. It's not hard. So when they aren't doing those things, you just, you check them. Hey, you're late today. Because it's their careers. It's not my career.

I got a career like this is what I do. And I try to tell young people that I've been coaching for 25 years. And I have yet, like, they're the same old recycle problems. Yeah, yeah. Like, I want new problems. I want to solve some new problems. And it's just, and they won't say anything until it's too late or it could have been resolved in a five-minute conversation. So I welcome young people to say it, to use their voices because I know what using your voice does.

It prevents you from being taken advantage of. It allows you clarity of what you like and what you don't like. I try to get them where most 50-year-olds are. Because 50-year-old, when I turn 50, life cleared up for me. Like, it's clear. Like, if I don't like something, I'm going to let you know. I don't like that. Like, if I do like it.

If I do like it. Yeah. Yeah. I understand they can start building this muscle earlier than we did. Because I feel the same way. You know, life got a lot better. Peaceful. It's peaceful there.

It really is peace. You're protecting your peace. Yes. I'm listening to you talk, Don, and I'm picturing Little Dawn on the basketball courts, playing with all these boys, right? And, you know, I mean, it is rare for somebody to, and it's a blessing to find out early in life what you love and then be able to do it for the rest of your life and make a career out of it. It is a blessing. I would love to hear more about that. Well, I would say this. When I was growing up, for me, it was genderless. I was just playing. I didn't know I was a girl until they told me, go put a skirt on and go in the kid. I didn't realize that that's what it was.

But I didn't care. Like, they didn't know who my mother was. My mother's got the strength of 10 men and thick skin. So the name calling really didn't bother me after a while. First it does. It's like I'm one of five. I'm the youngest of five. Say something that'll make me cry.

Right? And then you gain the respect of the guys. And then the relationship goes to you're one of us. But now with Title IX and, you know, girls, young girls, because I was a tomboy. You know, growing up as younger with a brother, I did same thing. I was doing everything they were doing. They were boxing. I was boxing. We're playing Piggy, softball. I was out there. I was running track. I was going to beat all of them. But I'm, you know,

almost 10 years older than you. And the opportunities just like for you were even, it wasn't there for a girl who was a jock to be in organized sports. I spent a lot of time on the sidelines watching him play in league. and going to his games because I didn't see girls doing any of that. And now that there are more opportunities for girls, I guess my question is, do you see the difference in female athletes who grew up in all girls' sports? I mean, they've had it, they've been exposed to it, but because they had the opportunities, they didn't get the chance to, you know, play with the boys. Do you see differences now?

I do. I just see there's more opportunity for girls. Like, if I look at my team probably over just my entire career coaching, right? They've only known it to be a WNBA. Yeah. Only know they were born. Right. Mm-hmm.

So that's the carrot that's been dangled in front of. of them for all of their lives. So they play now. They participate. They play AAU. They see a future. They see a future in it, like in a future here in the States. Yeah, I'm always curious, and I've met a number of wonderful WMBA college, female athletes and basketball. And I don't think people really understand how the path is so different. You know, the fact that, you know, paid is so unequal that the life of a professional, a WMBA player is so different. Can you tell us and tell our listeners a little bit about what it was like for you as a professional player, you know, because you could, you know, how did you make ends meet, you know, was that life difficult?

It was. I would say this. When I graduated from college, graduated from UVA in 1992, my male counterpart was Shaquille O'Neal. Right? Yeah. Shaquille. Yeah, we know that. Dude. Yeah. 80 million dollar contract. Me? I'm sitting at home. And that mother that clean houses, clean the house for a man that owned the retail store. So I had to ask my mother, I'm a college graduate to use her plug, right? To get me a job at his store. And I did retail for about three weeks. And then I'm like, this is for me. This isn't for me.

Like, once I got that check, that check was like $227. And I'm like, for all that. All that. For three weeks, right? So I was waiting to go overseas to play Because at my height as a guard They don't want guards They want bigs

So I went over to Segovia, Spain In October of 1992 Played for $35,000 which was decent for me I didn't have a job It was more than the retail store Way more So I did that And then 1990, I was playing for being an Olympian

because one of my lifelong dreams was to be an Olympian because I only saw women play on television two times. National championship and gold medal. Yeah. And that's what I wanted. So I had to go overseas and play to get more international experience so I can be ready the next time I trial for an Olympic Games, which was 94.

ended up making the 96 team. And then from our year of practicing together in preparation for the 96 games, we knew halfway through that there was going to be a WNBA. So we were like the guinea pigs to see if women's basketball could stand the test of time during that year. And then not only the WMBA was birth,

so was another league, the ABL. So two women's professional league started in 96 and 97. So from 92 to 97, it was a struggle once I started in the WMBA.

I was coaching at Temple University at the same time. So I could make ends meet because I had a second job. The WMBA job was my second job, but you had to have two jobs. You, I mean, it's not enough for you to, to just take the paycheck and live year-round. 12 months, yeah. So you had to have supplemental income.

In this segment brought to you by Chase Home Lending, we're talking about something that hits close to home, literally, moving, relocating, finding a place to settle, and how those journeys shape who we are. You know, Mish, you know, we've moved around a whole lot in our days from coaching. And what I remember that made home home was it didn't matter where we were as long as we were together. You know, we had to stay in hotels. We had to stay on people's couches. We had to stay all over the place until we found a place to live.

But it didn't matter as long as we were together. I totally agree. You know, our biggest move in our little Obama family was our move from the, the south side of Chicago to the White House. Never thought we feel settled in that place, but what we realize is that as long as we had each other, we were home. Thanks to Chase Home Lending for sponsoring this segment. Having the right support when finding a home is so important, and Chase Home Lending helps people at every stage of the home ownership journey, from first-time buyers to those relocating for new opportunities. They are committed

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is our salaries keeping up with this new requirement? Well, I think the salaries now, and I don't, it's probably anywhere from $75,000 to maybe $250,000, compared to an NBA player. Oh, there's no comparison. Yeah. I just want the number. I want to say the numbers out loud so that we, you know,

because the average NBA players make it. millions. It's millions. Millions if they don't even get playing time, right? Yes. And I would say this. In comparison to whether, like, if we looked at the NBA in this 28th or 29th year,

I think we're okay. Like, I think we're okay. It's on par. Yeah, it's on par. To where, okay. But we want to see the near future of WMBA players

being able to get a Supermax contract like a, you know what I'm saying? I know exactly what you're saying. And it makes me think so, you know, like the NBA has been around for years. And now the WMBA has been around for years, not as many, but it's been around for years. What's made it so popular now? Well, I think it's been popular. I think you have, you know, players like a Caitlin Clark. She brings a lot of eyeballs to our sport, a lot of them.

And so much, so much so much so that now you're seeing the rest of the league and how good and talented our women are that represent the WNBA. Like we played Caitlin Clark's Iowa team on national television in 2024, the highest ever. I think it was it tapped out at 24 million. most watched game ever. And I know a lot of people were tuned in to see Caitlin. But what they saw was a South Carolina team that was super talented. That was on an undefeated run. And I know they walked into something that didn't really know what was about to happen.

So I think it's cool that the new eyes, eyeballs are coming to our sport and they're seeing how very talented. like our players are. And is it somewhat controversy? Yeah. But what sport is it? I like the fact that we do have some controversy. It's a sport.

I've always said that I watch sports not just for the reality of it, but I watch sports to root against the people who I don't like. And if there's no drama, there's no fun. And I love the fact that the WMBA has some drama now. And I think I've always said that it needed more drama. But I was getting to the fact that it feels like to me, college basketball has made the WBA more popular. Now with this new house settlement having come through, this is some very recent stuff. So I want to get your take.

And just quickly, just explain for those who may not know what NIL is, just quickly. For those who don't understand name image and likeness, was that. the only way student athletes could get paid. And now with this new house settlement as a result of some lawsuits, it is passed now that schools can actually pay a portion of the revenues they earn to the student athletes. Yes. Well, first it'll be the NCAA got sued for over $2 billion. So for the next 10 years, the athletes that opt into this, and you don't have to, have to opt in, but if you opt in, you can get some of the, some of the money, the settlement money,

which is probably $20 million per school. But that doesn't, you know, that's football and men's basketball. And maybe sprinkling a little women's basketball and other Olympic sports. How is it a change recruitment? I mean, it's, that's, that's the, that's the. difficult part because, you know, the market, the market says that if you're, if you're a non-contributor and you go into the portal. And what, so what does it mean to be a non-contributor? Like, you don't play. Okay.

No playing time. Uh-huh. You're leaving a school because you're not playing. You average two points, one rebound, right? Mm-hmm. They can go ask a school like us. for $100,000. Wait, how?

What? Yeah. Yes, easy. And it won't blink. And won't blink. Now, if I entertain that, they're going to take it to another school. Hey, South Carolina's offered me $100 grand.

You got $150? And it's just that. It's just that. So for us at South Carolina, I mean, we got a certain amount of money. that we have to work with. And I don't over-promise.

I stay within the budget, the revenue-share budget that we have. And I do some innovative things as well to help our players out in this space. Like we play games for money, and that money goes directly to our players. Things like that. Now, we have to go away from our home games.

We have to give up home games and play a lot of games on neutral sites in order for us to do that. But to stay in this space, And to be competitive, you have to do some out-the-box things. Now, understand, we lead the nation in attendance for the past 10 years. So to give up a home game might mean you're giving up some wins that you would have had at home. Some wins and some revenue.

Yes. And revenue, yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. But revenue for action is not really, we probably lose money hosting. Home games? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the concession people make out, you know, but to put the turn the lights on.

Mm-hmm. How are the fans receiving it, the Gamecock fans, are they feeling about the NIL switch and players' attitudes? Is there any pushback? Are fans supportive of athletes getting paid? Yeah, I'm supportive of us. Yeah, I really am. I think it's long overdue. Yeah. I do think it's out of control as well. So we got to find a way to balance. They keep it an amateur sport while allowing young people to go out there and benefit from their name, image, like us. Because five years ago, it was all the NC2A benefiting from.

And it didn't trickle down to the players. And now it's a waterfall down to the players. players. Yeah. Has it affected the locker room? No, not, knock on wood. I hope it doesn't. I think I'm clear.

Again, I'm clear. I think I do all my talking to the agents. And this is what it is. And I tell our players, too, like, I do make them sign in DAs about what they get. Yeah. Yeah. I do. Now, whether they can stick with that or not, some of them get disgrunt to and maybe

transfer and just say what I was making. And then it can stir up the pot. But I'm very honest. And I'll tell them, there's a reason why you get paid this and you get paid that, right? And I'll explain that to them. But the players don't need to be in the business of knowing what each other makes. But they'll find out. They'll find out.

Some of them are represented by the same agent as well. That's helpful too in that way. They can help explain it because I'll give my message to the agent. and the agent usually does a really good job because they have the same issue. Like, if they get player X a deal for this amount, player B, who's their client, they get them for this amount,

and they find out they have the same issue, so they know how to handle that dynamic. Yeah. Well, Don, we typically have a question from a listener that we want to answer, but before we get to that question, have one more thing that you probably don't know this, that Michanai's relatives are from South Carolina.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Our father's side of the family. Our grandfather was born and raised. Yeah. And knowing that your mom was from South Carolina.

And dad. Yeah. And dad. I mean, you know, I mean, we might be related. Hello. Hold on. I think perhaps. But I.

We got the hype. Oh. You do. Excuse me. That was good. That was good. You maybe lose my train of thought. But no, given the fact that they were from South Carolina,

immigrated to Philly, and now you're back in South Carolina. Talk about the feelings. The feelings you have being a successful coach in the state. where your folks were from, and your folks during a time when it wasn't cool to be down in that state if you were us. It wasn't. And I think in the book, I mentioned that about my mother and why she left South Carolina. It was because the butcher, the butcher was giving my mother some food that looked spoiled and he wanted her to have that.

And my mother wasn't taking that home. I mean, my mother had that in her at her very young. age and he said some things to her, which meant you got to get out of town. So my mother got out of town. And then, you know, my mother was in Philly for over 50 years. And then I left to take the South Carolina job. And I'm like, you're coming with me? And she was like, no, I'm not going back down there. But all of her siblings, like a mother had like 16 siblings. So most of her siblings were still in South Carolina. Eventually, she said yes.

But now to be in South Carolina where, you know, I mean, South Carolina does not have a, they have a traditionally rich racist history, right? Right. And you feel that. Like, when I first got there, coaches were recruit to that. Like, I really had something to do with that. Yeah. But now where I sit, you know, as a. a black woman that makes a lot of money in that state.

And some people agree with it and some people they don't agree with it. I've ingrained myself into the community. Like the community and I are one. And I do think I say some things that maybe some of them don't like. But I do think the people in South Carolina, they judge me off of my life, not my resume. it's what I've been to the community. Right. Because it's easy to fall in love with the success

and you get blinded by the success. But it's more of what I've given to the community and what the community is given back to me. And to be in that community, to have a statue, right? To have a street named after me. It means a great deal because I meet some black people that said they couldn't walk on the campus. Yeah.

And they wouldn't. Yeah. Until I got there. And they come to the games. And it's a mirro of people who, I mean, it looks like it, I mean, if you look at the people that come to our games, it's a variety of people of all ethnic backgrounds just in unisonance on one accord that believe in one thing. It's the best of this country. Exactly. And I feel good about that.

I know my purpose. I understand my purpose, right? And it happened with my passion first, and then my purpose came after the passion. And then now the two are intertwining to create something that it's a model for other states, like South Carolina, just kind of get behind and understand. It's bigger than the basketball, is actually bigger than the racism. It's bigger than the history.

It's become something that I truly love about South Carolina. That's great. We can be as one. And it's a reminder of what is possible, you know. I mean, who we are really as people, you know, if we break through a lot of that history. You know, you are living through the. fact that communities do want to be unified. It feels better not to have a segregated campus, to have, to be in the gym together all rooting for the same thing. And what you and your team and your

games remind not just folks in South Carolina, but the country of this, it's what's possible. And so I applaud your tenacity and also your courage, right, because it takes some courage to You know, I mean, you weren't always the statue named street. You know, you came there as an unknown, and you had to build that from the ground up. And I got to say that you could have gotten jobs anywhere. Yeah. You could have gotten jobs anywhere. You took the South Carolina job.

I did. I took the South Carolina job really not know. Well, I did know, meaning I used to visit, yeah, family trips. not in Colombia, more so in the country, like in the deep country. We need to... We know the deep country down there.

When you described it in your book, it was like, yep, that was summer. That was summer. Going down there getting eaten by mosquitoes and all kinds of bugs. Meeting the cousins. Yeah. By now, viewers of this show

know that I used to be a hotel guy, and I mean, I collected the points, the whole gamut. But now I'm an Airbnb guy. One of the biggest reasons I'm an Airbnb guy is because I have four kids now, two of them have partners. So we're talking at least three rooms if we go to a hotel. I can get a four-room Airbnb and everybody can fit in the same place. We've got a family room we can get together in.

We have a kitchen. You know, one of the best parts about it is we do a lot of laundry. And it's great because you have a laundry room in these places. And what we've taken to now is ordering a place that has a pool. So if we are stuck at home, we have something to do. So when the Robinsons are hitting the road, especially with all of us, we're staying at an Airbnb. We've done it in Chicago. We've done it in Martha's Vineyard.

We have done it in Washington, D.C. we are done with hotels. We are Airbnb folks. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Financial Security isn't just about the here and now. It's about the future. That's why we love what Progressive is doing to help people attain, maintain, and build wealth through home ownership.

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house. So thank you, Progressive, for helping families plan ahead and for sponsoring our show. Visit progressive.com slash open the house to learn more. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Colagard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American and Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know that colon cancer can be treatable in nine out of 10 people. But the key here is that it has to be caught early. With the Coligard test,

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or family history of colorectal cancer. The coligard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Colerate test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Coligard is available by prescription only. Which is a good way to enter into the question from our listeners. We have been so, you talk about being blessed. Our listeners give us some really good questions.

And this question is from Crystal from Dallas. Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Crystal, and I love your show. My question is about and for black people, especially black women, who are navigating leadership roles in business, community, or family. What advice would you give for staying grounded and leading with purpose, especially when facing self-doubt or dealing with external pressures? I'm currently in the process of launching my own coaching and consulting business

after being laid off for the first time for my corporate job. And I want to ensure I'm showing up authentically and confidently as an expert for my clients. So any insights you have would mean so much. Thank you. Okay. So the first thing I want to pull from that question is, you know, she lost her job. That's a big, I mean, you know, I've been fired and it's a big hit to your ego. And what are some things, Dawn, that you could give her.

to sort of pull herself out of that and sort of head back in the right direction? I would say sometimes, whether you get fired or laid off or you leave, right? I believe sometimes there's a blessing beyond that. And it helps you figure out what your worth is, like what you're worth. It makes you sit with yourself.

And when you sit with yourself, you, everybody has doubts. Every single person has doubts, right? Especially if you lose your job. And once you get past that, because when you're dealing with any kind of problem, there's an emotional part to it and there's a factual part to it.

Right? So once we deal with the emotions, the facts still sit right there with you, right? And the fact is, you build some great habits. Like you build some great life habits. You build some habits. a leader. You built some habits of being disciplined. You built some networking and friendship habits

with people who you can call on to help you. You got some mentors. You got some sponsors in your life. It allows you to revert back to those habits. And a lot of times once we get past the emotional part of it and we lock into the facts, and those are the facts. You're worth more than that. Understand, unveil your worth. And sometimes you've got to utilize people to see that. And sometimes you've got to utilize your habits that got

you to that place. Yeah. And I hear, Crystal, I hear the remnants of you know, imposter syndrome in the question too, which I think we as women, particularly women of color,

you know, deal with because a lot of times you grow up, with more what you can't do than what you can do. And I think, Don, you and I were blessed with having parents who saw what we could do. And at least that voice was a founding part of our growth. So with Crystal, I would, you know, remind her, it's sort of like understanding the facts, is that the facts are that, you know, she has to go into this endeavor understanding that she is capable and deserving of the blessings that are coming, you know, and that there are people with less talent, with less skill, less ability, who expect and achieve more just because their bar is higher for themselves. So, you know, it's that it's the mental part of starting something new. It's the mental part to leadership.

you got to stand in your strength, you know, and own it. And you can't start a new thing if you're questioning whether you deserve it. And so breaking that habit, you know, especially at a point where maybe she's feeling a little down, maybe she's feeling unsure of herself. It's like there is a mental component to success and leadership is that you got to believe your hype. You know, and it ties into understanding the facts of your skills and owning that. Yeah. Now, you both are wonderful leaders and you've developed into leaders.

Are there any leadership skills that you can share with Crystal that you've developed along the way that could possibly help her as she moves into this new endeavor? Don, I heard you throw out a bunch of them just in this conversation. And, you know, just the first few chapters of Uncom in favor, you've thrown, you know. So. Yeah, I mean, I think one is, Crystal has to find out who she is. And she knows. She knows she has to direct it back to who she is. is because, you know, obviously she had a job, right, with the skill set.

And I don't know how long she had that job, but I'm sure the fact that she got the job, her skill set spoke to that, right? And things change from one reason or another. Again, the blessing part of it, just stay to who she is. Like, let that guide her. Crystal, let it guide you. Let it guide you. You can't go wrong when it's you.

You can't go wrong when you think you're doing it because somebody wants it done that way. So your way is your way. If that's the wrong way, fall on the sword knowing it was the way that you wanted to go. A lot of times, though, your way won't let you down. So be authentic. Be authentic. Oh, please be authentic. And that brings me back to something else you talk about. See, my sister's always telling me that the men can't look inward as well as women can.

So I'm working on myself every day. Look inside, my brother. And I'm thinking about, you know, the times that I can admit where I've had self-doubt. And it happens even in coaching because you're responsible for the 15 players you have, but you can't control them. And when it doesn't work out, the first thing we do as coaches is, what have we done wrong? And I just want Crystal to understand that having a good team around you combats the self-doubt. Because if you have the right team around you, your assistant coaches,

your parents, the captain of your team sometimes comes back and says, hey, coach, I don't think we should run points green away. I think we should run chin and, you know, I don't think you're on the right track. Whatever that means. I got you. I'm right there. I'm right there. I did that on purpose.

But I'll say this. In my 20, and I just finished my 25th year of coach. Yeah. The best decisions that I've made. was to hire somebody, somebodies that are much smarter than I am. Like seriously, much smarter than I am, more experienced than I am as a coach.

Because it is, it is, I don't know everything. But I want somebody in the room to know about it. Yeah. To know. We have to cover ourselves. So, you know, when I was the Olympic coach, head coach, we lost our first two games, exhibition games.

One of Australia and the other one was the WMBA All-Stars. I'm the black coach. First time I'm black coach, right? So I experienced something I've never experienced in my life. Like, I was paralyzed. Like, what? I can't do this. And you feel the pressure because you got to perform.

You can't be the one that dethrones, you know, the success that USA has. had, right? So I lost sleep. I'm like, but also in the same breath, I just kind of exhaled and said, I have to do it my way. Like, I can't try to play all the players, even though this is the first time that the entire team was together. I tried to figure out who we had, what the substitution patterns are. And it's a lonely place because the assistant coaches are trying to help and suggesting all of that. But the onus is on me.

When it's all said and done, it's going to be me that failed or got the job done. So I just exhaled and I'm saying, I'm going to do it my way. Like if Asia Wilson is the player that I'm most comfortable with, well, I'm going to put her in the starting line up, and we're just going to pivot and go from there. And that was just kind of my safe house.

And everything around that, I just said, okay, this is the decision I'm going to make. But in making that decision, I actually talked to the players that I was taking out of the starting line up to put Asia in the starting lineup. She probably didn't like the conversation, but I was truthful and honest. Because ultimately, I just wanted her to be okay or be in a position where she can help us win a gold medal. And then the second thing I did was some of the players that younger players, it was their first time being an Olympian, I actually went to them individually and I said, hey, you may not play a whole lot at this Olympic Games.

I said, but I hope you use this opportunity to learn. And if you ever want to have this experience again of being a two-time Olympian or three-time Olympian, then you have to learn this part of it. Don't let this be an opportunity that you get, you're mad and you're in your emotions. You got to learn. So I set them up to know that they may play or may not play, but I wanted them to be okay with it because I didn't want them to be the ones that were pulling somebody else that wasn't playing and say, you know, because in teams.

To start that little, that, nine, yes. So just be clear, be unafraid, Crystal, to surround yourself with people, you know, are smarter than you that know a little bit more in different areas. and you just be the conductor and you're just, you know, directing them as to what you need. Well, and Don, as you talked about communicating to the team members that weren't playing and realizing that that was as important as communicating to the starters, that makes me think of another piece of advice, which is, you know, as a business leader, as a leader, how you treat people, you know, how you treat your team, your client base, how you show up, you know, with truth, compassion, empathy, honesty, all of that absolutely matters. You are the leader, so you are modeling the mentality of the team, the project, the endeavor, you set that tone.

So, Crystal, that means that you have to understand that, you know, as the leader, you can't show up. you know, half-baked, you know, when you're the team member, you can be a little raggedy sometimes. You can have a down day. You can come in slow, right? But when you're the leader, you know, every day you kind of got to be on your toes. And that's the, that, you know, that's what makes leaders great. That's what sets them apart. But it is a burden. And especially in business, you know, she is setting the tone for, for the direction and the way her company. her company is going to move. So Crystal, this has been great.

Really, this has been great. So some takeaways from Crystal for Crystal. Because my brother is the good, he's the good summation expert of it all. Because we just talk. And it's like, oh yeah, what did we say to Crystal? I'm still coaching. I'm still coaching.

I'm still coaching. Even though I'm sitting here, they're still coaching. So the first thing that Coach Daly talked about Crystal was habits. And I don't remember the number of the chapter, but respect the habits was my favorite chapter. That's a chapter in uncommon favor, and that's Don Staley's books.

So develop habits and stick to them. My sister chimed in with, know that you're capable. You both talked about this, know that you're capable and deserving. So that builds up your confidence. Be authentic. That's another one.

One of my favorites, surround yourself with great people. And even some who might be better than you are, because we all need to be coached. Yes. We all need to be coached. Forever and ever. And Don came back with, you've got to communicate as a leader. and this goes in to what Mish summed it up with was, you can't be raggedy.

You can't be raggedy. You're the leader. You're the leader. You can't be raggedy. And I mean, and this is for Crystal, but this is for everybody out there listening. These are leadership qualities and traits that everybody can take something away from. And that can be powerful.

be powerful. Chris was set straight. Yeah. She's set straight. This back to school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. I remember when my wife Kelly and I would be running around to a million different stores, chasing down spiral notebooks, lunch boxes, and that one specific calculator that somehow every math teacher requires. And look, I love my kids, but I do not love fighting over the last.

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Go to Amazon. get your back-to-school checklist done in like five minutes while saving a few bucks. So remember, with Amazon's low back-to-school prices, just spend less on your kids. Because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them. Now, before we go, Dawn, tell me the story behind your necklaces and bracelets. Oh, okay. Cool stories. Three years ago, when we won a national championship in 2022.

I love the fact that you won so many that you just got to make, which one was it? I met this young girl with pediatric cancer. Okay. And I was with a company that I have a partnership with, and they took me to just meet this young lady. They give her this duck that does some incredible things. And then they took them through a scavenger hunt. And at the end of the scavenger hunt, they gave her her duck. And then they could make necklaces for their ducks.

So I sat with her and I used her color coordination of what she was making a necklace for her duck. And I wore it ever since. Because of strength. Like she was sitting. We were sitting together. She has cancer. You would never know. Like you would never know the strength that she sat with that cancer,

what her parents were just a little bit away from her. So I've worn this like for three years. Wow. Like it later on, like I did this in May. We were trying to win a national championship that year, the next year. and she actually sent another one because this was getting real, you know, beat down.

She saw. She's like, she needs another one. Let me help her out. And then, you know, and then young people give me, you know, racist with grit, with uncommon favor, and I wear it until it pops. Yeah. My husband has the same thing.

Baraki has, over the course of his first campaign, people will come and give them their lucky charms, you know, and it could be a rabbit's foot. a little, you know, Buddha or whatever it was, but so many people were praying for him and would give something precious to him. And he kept all those things. You know, he has a drawer full of them.

And even to this day now, he takes a few of them every day and puts them in his pocket, you know, just a mix, you know, just in the same way. It's perspective and it's a blessing. I want to ask one thing. What do you do for, for fun.

Are you, do you, do you, do you like reality TV? Are you, and you don't say that because my, my brother, but, you know, what's you watching? She watches sports, that's reality TV. Well, I do watch sports, but I'm a little morbid. I like, okay. I like crying. Oh, yeah. You know, I do.

I like crime. Like, if I could go in person to trials, like, like, I, like, I, I went to a double murder trial and, and, and, and, you know, I do, I mean, I do a double murder trial and, and, and, and, and. In Columbia, South Carolina. Just for fun. Yes. Like, it's different. Like, TV does it. No justice, y'all.

It's like, you want the real thing. I want the real thing. That is a morbid. Like, in the courtroom was set up as such that, you know, it was the guy that was on trial. Like, his section. Not even his section, because the courtroom was set up that way. And then the people who were actually. experts were sitting on this side.

So I went in and sat on just what I perceive as the defense side, right? And then the guy looked back at me. And I didn't know what to do. So I was just like, like I just said, what's up? And I'm like, because I knew the judge. Your judge told me. Yeah, I'm wondering, like, how do you pick your trials? It was actually the judge that did the Murdoch case.

Wow. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. He was a real good friend of him. mind. So he told me he got a double murder case and come on down. And I did it for four days.

I did. And you're not like sunglasses or anything. You just sat in there. No, I just showed up. I just showed up like that regular person. I did. And then I stayed. Like I stayed until Thursday.

It went four days. The jury were, they were deliberating. And then I, I mean, I sat for a couple hours like. Okay, Don. And I was like, I got to leave because it's not, they're not going to. And then it was like. you know, verdict's in. So you, you, I mean, your heart is,

I did. Wow. I did. Wow. It didn't work out. Was that the first of many, uh, criminal trials that, you know, I don't know how you have time. It's like, that's why you don't have any days off on your time off.

You're sitting in a week long courtroom. But that, I mean, I walk. Like, I'll try to walk every day. Yeah. It is a clear to air just a spit. Well, after a murder trial, you're, You need to clear your mind. Are you a date line person?

Oh, yes. I'm an unsolved. Yeah. You saw the Murdoch case, all of that. Yes, I did too. Like, I mean, it had me captivated. Yeah. All right.

Well, you know, I mean, respect. I like that, don't thank you. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, we didn't expect that one. Thanks for sharing. That's my next book. Right. Okay.

Basketball murder mystery. There you go. There you go. Best selling. Well, we know you, we've got a production company so we could get the right to turn it into a movie. Okay. All right. It's a deal.

You heard it here first. Don, thank you so much. It has been a pleasure. Congratulations on all your success. And, you know, listeners pick up uncommon favor. It is an important read. It's a beautiful story about an amazing life and all the lessons you've learned from it. Worth, worth a read for sure.

And good luck on your. your book tour next season. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for leading up front. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Craig. You are welcome.