IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

On this special live episode of IMO, Michelle sits down with Tina Knowles to launch her new book Matriarch. Tina goes deep on the values she learned from her childhood, how she shepherded her daughters through their iconic careers, and what she’s learned about being a mother. Learn more about Matriarch here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/729803/matriarch-oprahs-book-club-by-tina-knowles/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, everybody, and welcome back to IMO. Today's episode is a little different than usual, and I think you're going to love it. Recently, I had the privilege of joining my dear friend, Miss Tina Knowles, on the very first stop of her nine-city book tour for her new best-selling memoir, Matriarch. It's a beautiful and brave story of strong women, fierce mothering, and the power of continued evolution. It's a deeply personal reflection on where she's come from, who she's become, and what it means to build a family rooted in love and legacy. Our families have been close for years now, and I've always felt a special connection with the Knowles Carter family.

We've learned from one another and shared lots of memorable moments along the way. And as mothers of strong, brilliant daughters who've grown up in the limelight, Tina and I have had more than a few conversations about what it means to raise grounded girls in a world that doesn't always give you that space to just be. I've always admired Tina's wisdom, her grace, and that undeniable strength she carries. So sitting down with her in Washington, D.C., on stage, with a vibrant live audience was more than an honor. We talked about everything from her childhood in Galveston, Texas,

to how she became the matriarch we all know in love today, and what it means to own your story, especially as a black woman whose journey has inspired so many. There were lots of laughs, and since this is IMO, plenty of life advice along the way. So today I want to share our conversation with all of you, recorded on stage in D.C. So sit back and enjoy.

Here we go. Y'all, aren't we excited? Yes. I don't have to pretend like you are not just freaking out right now. Oh, my goodness. Not just on the bestsellers list, but number one. Number one. Look at this.

If y'all have not. You bought your copy, please do, because this is an amazing read. Tina, how does it feel to be number one? It feels great. Oh, my goodness. And how are you feeling? I mean, you were about to launch a nine-city tour. And I know you're not comfortable in the spotlight.

You are used to being behind the scenes, making everybody else look good. I know this is a little uncomfortable for you, y'all. She doesn't know how to be the center of attention, even though she looks like she knows. How does it feel to share your story with the world? Because let me tell you, when I wrote Becoming, I shared this. It was not about me, but what I'm saying is that, you know,

I was all confident writing the book. Yeah. And then the day it was coming out, I could not sleep because I thought, Oh, my God, I told everybody everything. Everything. That's right. And I couldn't get to sleep, and I was like, what if I made a horrible mistake?

Same here. Same here. I mean, I would call my kids, and I'd be like, I think I talked too much. And, you know, they were like, what did you put in there? Because I sent them their parts, you know, but they didn't. I was like, they're too busy, and plus I was scared. So I just held it from them. but they were like, what did you put in there?

And I said, I tried to just tell my story. But sometimes your story includes other people. So that's the, it was scary. I was, I've been up for days too. I hear you. Between that and Cowboy Carter, I have not asked you. Say, oh, that, oh, that little project, because it's not like you're doing this and that, right?

So you're still leading the wardrobe on a big, a worldwide tour. Yeah. Are you crazy? Well, we didn't plan it that way, but I wanted the book out for Mother's Day. There you go. And, you know, but we have an amazing team. Oh, well. We have an amazing team with Stylist, so they got this.

That's so good. Yeah. That's so good. And so the family is feeling good about the book as we can hear. Nobody is calling you going, Mama, what did you say that for? No. No, not yet. I'm going to get the call, though.

I know it already. Well, to truly understand the Tina Knowles that we've come to love and respect, and now I love it that you say that the reader's got to know your history. And this is a quote. You say, to keep me grounded, she, my mother, told me stories from our family history.

I listened to every single word she told me. These people, my people, my ancestors and parents when they were young were characters in a long drama that I am now part of. Their struggles were not mine, but their lessons could be. This was my inheritance. These stories that people had done their best to erase or degrade to keep us from passing them down so that we wouldn't know our history or ourselves. I want to ask you, Tina, why do you think it's important to know and tell your story, our stories? Well, just because I think in your family, have you ever wondered where you got something from, where you got the strength to get through something, or where you got that feeling of fear?

I mean, there are many things that I connected the dots on just looking at my ancestors and my grandparents, You know, both of my great-grandmothers were enslaved. But they kept their kids with them. So you know that that was a priority, and you know what that had to take back then, but somehow they managed to do that. And I just feel like that's such a strong thing. So I know when times have been so, so rough for me,

and I've been through a lot in my life, that that's what got me through. It's those ancestors, that strength, that we would just, you know, kick-ass women, and that hung in there and dealt with the obstacles. Yeah. And what would you say that we had a lot of folks of all ages, but what would you say here tonight,

what would you say to young people who don't know their stories? I think you should. I think that you should research it. And there are, I mean, think about it for me. I'm 71 years old. Let's just stop there. Y'all, this is what 71 looks like. I mean, you act right.

I'm sorry. But I was just saying that, you know, back in my time, we didn't have ancestry. Yes.com and all these resources that we have now. And I remember starting that process like many years ago, maybe 14 years ago, whenever. You did ancestry. I did ancestry. And I did, but I started first just looking back to say, you know, when mom has told me these stories about my mother's family, she always told me stories about them and I knew their names.

I really didn't know my daddy's people. And so I started being interested in where the name is actually Boyonce. And it's, you know, where he came from. And why is my name spelled B-E-Y-I-N-C? Well, someone did something on Instagram that's a relative of mine. I don't know him.

But there were like 17 spellings of that. And, you know, that happened to a lot of people in here. You might think that was your original spelling, but when you go back and look, it's just changed, especially with people of color, because black people, because we took on these slayed names, and we recalled everything, in my case, we weren't important enough for you to spell it right on my birth certificate. So all of us have different spellings. But it is important for you to know where you came from, and to pass that on to your grandchildren, and your great-grandchildren, because I never got to meet my grandmother.

And my children never got to meet their grandmother. And so I started writing this book, like, when I got a divorce in, like, 19, I mean 19. Look at me, I'm aging yourself. It felt like it was that long. And you're right. I was 59. Let me say that, because I don't know what year it was. We'll get to that later.

Yeah, I felt very disconnected. I felt old. At 59, Lord have mercy. This time it was 69. Can you imagine? But I just felt like my, started thinking about mortality, and I'm like, what if my grandchildren don't get to meet me? Not my great-grandchildren.

And how would they know? Because my mom's favorite thing was keep a word going. And that meant tell the stories. and keep your messages, keep your stories going generations down. And in order to do that, I had to start writing it. So that's how I started just recording it. And I was able to go back to that, you know, when we started writing it. So it doesn't take deep knowledge.

It just takes, you know, for you all out there, start. It is stories. That's all it is. It's the stuff you hear around the kitchen table. You want to retain that, write that down, especially in a time when they are trying to erase our history. Yes. So it is important to do what Ms. Chairman doing.

And I encourage everybody. You know, people ask me, what do you want people to leave with? And that is what I want you to leave with. I never thought I'd publish a book, and you don't have to publish a book. Leave it for your great-grandchildren so that they can know your history and hear it from you. Because you know your cousins would be like, oh, your mama, you know, she was over there doing this and that.

Tell your own story. Tell your own story. Now, speaking of names, though, you didn't like your name. No. Tell us about you. Tell us your real name. Celestine, you said they called you everything.

Everything. And then I had a last name like, Beyonce. That was a lot of name for a little kid in the 50s. You know, we didn't have these cool, creative names. I wanted my name to be Linda Smith and Judy. You just wanted a Linda. So tell the story about how you finally did change your name.

Well, my mama was in the hospital, and my brothers had to take me to register me for school. So I was like, please don't tell them, my name is Celeste. Please. And they were like, we don't know what to do because they're going to look at your birth certificate. And I said, just don't give it to them. So we went in there, and we just said, our mama is in the hospital. We all look real sad. And we don't have the paperwork, but we promise we'll bring it back.

But it's so important to my mama that we get my little sister in school. They didn't go along with it at first, but I was like begging. And my brother Larry, who was softy, he helped me out. And I literally in fifth grade changed my name to Tina. By the time we brought the paperwork. It was too late. I was Tina. You were saying.

You have so many amazing stories. about your childhood. You will fall in love with the Galveston community that Ms. Tina talks about. But you describe your childhood in Galveston, Texas. You say, this was abundance. And y'all are going to recognize this. A game song with my best friend.

A swing set bought on stamps. Bulk-packed hot dogs. Five-cent sodas. our own boat and bread for the birds. We shared what we had and felt like we had it to give. My family was on pennies, but we were living like millionaires. Now, doesn't that describe a lot of our upbringing, you know? Tell us about your neighborhood,

about that big community of people that you grew up in, that family of cousins and uncles and nephews, and all of that. Well, I grew up in this area that was a working class neighborhood and everybody was poor, so I don't think we knew. And we had this backyard that they would say,

oh, they have a huge backyard. I went to that house with Beyonce, and she was like, Mama, that is a little green backyard. But to us, it was huge, and we had a swing set, because my mama collected S&A screenset. Y'all don't know what that is. Right, they're too young.

The S&H stamps, you lick them, your tongue would get all sticky, but you get the books and buy things. I can't believe you all had enough to buy a swing set. Oh, you know why? All we could get was a toaster. Listen, my mama was serious, and she would take all of us, and my sister had eight children, and we would all go and we would look so pitiful

and say, do y'all want y'all stamps? That's how we get our Christmas presents. which was true, but people would just give us stamps, and we would just collect them, and we had ping pong sets, crowcat sets. Like my mom, that was the playground for everyone. She figured out a way to do everything. But you said all the kids would come to your backyard,

and your mother would, if you were going to go, when you describe having your own boat, explain what that meant. It's the ferry, the free ferry. But my mom would say, y'all want to go on our boat today? And we'd be like, yeah. And then I was sharing in the book that when I became a teenager,

that was part of the Tina game. Because I would take my boyfriends out there and sing to them and say, you want to go on my yacht? Uh-huh. And they get there and it was the free ferry. You know. But you always made room for everyone in the neighborhood, right? So you would gather everybody up.

I love that. Talk about that. because, I mean, I spent a lot of time in the early chapters of your book because I feel like those stories, and I've known you, we've spent time together, but to really now get who you are, that sort of generosity of spirit, all of that, who you are, it really happened under that pecan tree in that backyard. And because it's also when people see folks in the limelight, they make a assumptions about where we're from and what we have.

And I think it's important for people to really know the real Tina. Because y'all were, y'all had to make it through some tough times. We did. We had to make it through some tough times. And it was so, you know, my sister had eight children. My mom had seven but five at home. I remember my daddy getting what they called pennies and that was unemployment. It was $35. Now think about a family with seven people living in a two-bedroom house and getting $35 a week. It was, you know, it was some really tough times, but it was so much fun.

Like, we just had so much fun, and we had so many kids around, and when you fought one, you had to fight everybody. So, you know, we played in that tree, we had all these games, and we really didn't realize how poor we were until somebody told us, you know? Right. Yeah. Do you remember your first fight? because I sure do.

Oh, yeah. Because when you grow up in the neighborhood, at some point you got to fight somebody just to be able to stay outside. There was a girl. Absolutely true. You know? And you had to stay outside because your mama put you outside.

So go outside until they get ready to get dark and then come back in because there's no space. And this girl, Bedina, I used to fight. I mean, she used to fight me. She used to beat the crap out of me. And my brother, I remember, I brought broke my thumb and I had a cast on and he said, you got superpowers, it's superpowers in that cast.

And I went and hit Medina. I started a fight with her and just hit her. Because sometimes you got to do that. But the Medinas of the world, sometimes you've got to go jack her up. So I just make sure you keep her thrown off, right? That's right. Mine was Didi. Dini?

Yeah. So why did Didi want? You know, she was always messing with me. Right. So it was one of those things. and I think I took her off guard because I just decided. I decided in my little soul, I'm gonna go beat Didi up. That's right.

So I went outside. We were just playing jump rope and then I was like, whoa, ww, wab, bha. And see, you have the same story because you didn't even have a reason that day. You're waiting for her to bully you. She gave me reasons many of the days. That's what I'm saying. So that day you just catch him off guard.

But I hit Medina, knock the Bidina down. Yes. And then I said, oh, what did I do? I ran home. I ran home. No, I ran home. I was like, Bedina is going to beat the crop out of me.

But Medina respected me after that. So I tell my grandchildren that story. Same thing. And their parents are like, don't be telling my kids to go fight. Like, you've got to protect yourself. Well, the lesson for the young people today is use your words. That's right.

Use the words. But sometimes. It's time. See, that's that double. Capricorn energy. That's right. That's right. Because we get it, right? It's like sometimes. It's like, you're not going to have me hiding in my house, in my neighborhood. How did growing up in such a big family shape how you built and defined your family? Because, you know, we all know that you got a lot of kids and then a lot, a lot, a lot of kids. I got a lot of kids. And you were

mothering so many people, but that comes from something. It comes from my mother. It comes from my mother. just mothering everybody. You know, they called me, telling my mama teeny mama. Teeny mama, I love that. My mom just adopted the whole neighborhood. So was it teeny mama or teeny mama? Teeny mama.

Yeah, it was teeny mama. Y'all get that? So, you know, she mothered people and she took people in, and so that's all I've known my whole life. And I know in my heart that we are born to families, but that other people, I mean, it might not be your blood mama, but, you know, sometimes, but you can have a mama. And I just love mothering.

Yeah. Mothering. It's my gift. I think God gave to me, so I love it. But I got it from a mama. And in this day and age when there are more and more people who say that they feel lonely. Yes. You know, especially with social media.

We're still recovering from COVID. It just breaks my heart to know that there are folks out there. One of the reasons we started our podcast was to create a space for people to feel like they had some kind of kitchen table. And I think that what a matriarch shows us is the power of building family wherever you are. And it takes an active engagement. It takes intention because Teeny Mama was intentional about keeping her doors open and inviting people. in. And you've been incredibly intentional about keeping

your kitchen table broad and open. Yes. Yeah, I got it from her. And it's, you know, it's brought me so much joy and I say all the time that, you know, again, I just want to reiterate that

some of us are not blessed enough to have our blood family, but you can still have a family. There is always somebody out there that needs some love too. You just exchange that love. And we don't do this life alone. We were not built

to do this life alone. You know, Barack was telling me we've been talking a lot about how the advent of the nuclear family, just like us, is new. It's new to this generation. And a lot of the

reasons that families and young couples are struggling is because they think they're supposed to do it with just them. And we all grew up with aunts and uncles and cousins. Our mothers were not ever trying to raise us by ourselves. So don't get fooled into thinking that it's just ever supposed to be you. You know, we need play mamas and cousins and uncles and aunties and pretend neighbors. And I want our young people to stop trying to do this life on their own.

And I think Tina is living example that that's the way we're starting. supposed to live. Tina, your parents just sounded amazing, but they, like most people of that generation, they lived hard lives. You say your mother was overprotective, cautious, and yet deeply devoted. You described your father as hardworking, loving, and flawed, a terrible incident in a mind left and blind in one eye, and he never learned to read or write something you didn't even know until later in life. But despite these hardships, they showed up for your family. You want to talk a little bit about some of the lessons that you learned from your parents and some of the lessons you had to unlearn? Yeah, well, some of the, you know, I want to talk about

that too because my mother was a wonderful woman and she was a great mom, but she had a lot of fear. And she put that fear, tried to put it on me, but I was just too wild and stubborn to listen. But she also was so, when I say she's overprotective, I felt like she didn't trust me. Yeah. I went through some teenage years where my mom was, you know, she just, I felt like, you know, I just felt like she was, she didn't trust me, she thought I was fast or I was going to go get pregnant and my friends got pregnant and so then she was like, oh, you know, she just harped on that so much. And sometimes created a little shame about things that I shouldn't even felt shame about. So I'm very honest about that because my mom was flawed. She wasn't perfect.

She was darned perfect in other ways. But in that way, we had a rough teenage year time because I felt like, and when you guys read the book, you'll see that there were times when I felt like she didn't trust me and I have our oldest sister who's here tonight. Flo, I don't know where you are. Flo is here. Oh, yeah.

Huh? Yeah, where is Flo? Where are you, Flo? Right there in the second row. Oh, okay. Hey, Flo. Stand up, Flo. Flo, yeah.

Go, stand up. flow. And she looked real sweet, but let me tell y'all. Oh, we're going to get to Flo. Yeah, okay. Well, I won't spoil it. But anyway, I will call Flo and I would say, you know, I can't stand her because she just said this. So she did that and, you know, Flo would smooth things out. So thank God I had this, this oldest sister. But yeah, my mom, we went through some rough times. And I think if anything, you know, she told me later when we made up that I called her and I said, why didn't you trust me?

And she said, you know, Tini, I trusted you. I just didn't trust the world. And I understood that and I realized my mom was a great mom, you know, at that point. Thank God I learned that. I mean, I saw some other moms and I was like, damn, I better go call my mom. I didn't know what I had, you know? That's right. Yeah.

That's right. That's right. But like you said, it wasn't easy raising a bunch of kids in the deep segregated South. Because, you know, when, you know, if you think times are bad now, you know, being in Galveston, Texas, growing up when stuff was real rough. And even though your folks showered you with an abundance of love, they couldn't or didn't always have the tools to protect you. from the world as you would come to realize. I want you to tell the powerful story of your first encounter with some of that ugliness.

When you were just five years old, and your mother put you in Holy Rosary Catholic School across the street, and you met Sister Fidelis. Yes. Boo, yeah, yeah. And isn't that crazy that I'm 71, and I can remember Sister Fidelis? A lot of teachers I don't remember, but my first five minutes of school, because I was very excited about going to school.

I used to go there all the time because it was right across the street. And the first five minutes, some kid pointed at me, and I pointed back at him, and she said, who's talking, and she came and got me and took me to the front of the class, and she hit us with these sticks, and I had never been spanked before, so I was like, oh, my God, I don't think I want to do this. So I ran home at recess and told my mom, I don't like that. hit me. And I was thinking my mom was going to go over there and get in her case. And my mom brought me back and said, apologize to sister. And I'm like, what? And so that's what I mean about her just being passive. And, you know, my daddy used to drive the nuns. And my brothers

worked in the school yard. All of us went to the school. And what I found out later is that my parents were actually bartering. My mom would make the altar boy uniforms and soul for the church. And I was just like, why y'all let them make us slaves? Like, you know, what's going on? But she was actually bartering, which was very unselfish of my parents. And I really appreciate that now because they just wanted to protect us again, you know. But the nuns were always, because we weren't paying to go to school and we were poor.

And, you know, it was like teachers, kids, and nurses, they were like the elite, and they always said that I didn't belong there, and that if I only knew, and they were just not, they tried to break my spirit. They told me that they wanted to break my spirit. And I was like, no, you're not. In my little five-year-old head, I just became this warrior because I had to protect myself.

Yeah, yeah. And I love that story. because it says so much about children, first of all, that, you know, and I say this all the time, children come here with a certain wisdom and a spirit, you know, and it takes the world to knock it out of us. That's right. And you know when somebody is setting your bar low. You children know when somebody is talking down to them.

And the reason I would think that you remember Sister Fidelis is because that was the first time you truly felt unprotected. It was. And you knew you were better than who she thought you were. Right. And that stuck with you. It stuck with me. And there were many kids.

Well, I want to say many because I don't think that my mom, I don't think that they were as, it was me and my brother Skip that they really picked on. Yeah. And we were the last too, I think. And, but there were other kids, too. Like, I remember this guy, Glee. and my kids always saying,

don't say people's last name, they're going to come back and sue you. But I remember Glenn, no, they told me that many times, Mama. It's true. And they're right about that. I shouldn't have said that. Then I shouldn't even say that.

But anyway, don't get no ideas. Don't get no ideas. But Glenn, they would, you know, pick on him too, and his dad was a barber. And so I don't know if they just, had a thing about us not feeling like we were worthy to be there with these professional

people's kids, you know, I don't know. But you knew there was something in you that told you that you did belong, that you were worthy. Well, at that time I think it was more so that I just said, you're not going to break my spirit. That's all I knew, because

I had a mouth on me, and I and you know, I think you know, as a kid talked back. And I just What did they call you? Bad-ass teeny bee. It was really just bad-ass teeny.

And my, you know, I had these older parents. So by the time I came along, they were really tired. And they didn't discipline me like they did my brothers and sisters. They, with me,

they were more lax. So I was always talking stuff, talking back, everything. And so it gave me that spirit to actually stand up to them, I believe. Yeah, and you would need that. Yes. You would need that fighter. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You were always a fighter. In fact, as they say, they called you badass Tina B. And you needed that attitude to make your way in a big family. But you also needed it growing up in the shadows of racism. Your sister Flo, who was...

we just met, Flo, in your lifetime, participated in the early sit-in that led to the desegregation of Woolworth Lunch Counters in Galveston. Yeah. Your parents had to deal with the constant targeting of your brothers by local police. So this fear, this constant fear of needing to protect you all was real. But then you grew up into the miniskirt wearing Afro, mid-drift-bearing shaft-loving team. So you brought in all that environment. You brought all that energy.

I want you to share the tell about the time that you got hauled into the police station for doing absolutely nothing. Nothing. Just being outside of a movie. And this cop came up and said, come here. And I went over, and my friend Vanessa, who was really scary. And we went over, and he was like, what's your name? And I said, why do you need my name? And it was all these kids waiting, and we had just seen Shaft.

So, you know, I was feeling really like, Shaff. Shut your mouth. That's right. So, and he just kept saying, give me your name. And I said, I'm not going to give you my name. I don't know why. And so he's like, well, I'm going to take you down to the state. I said, well, take me, because I want to ask.

And all the kids are saying, she didn't do nothing, she didn't do nothing. And so he puts us in the car and he takes us to the station, and his sergeant chewed him out. I could see him like, what are you doing? But he came out and he said, officer, the officer is going to take you home and not on the corner where he found you. And I was like, the corner, we were in front of the movies. We're high school students. And he said, oh, well, well, you know, y'all, you look like nice girls,

but y'all shouldn't be out there on the street. So he had told him this story, and when we left out, he, like, talked to us so crazy because he said the officers were going to take you home and not take you, you know, leave you on the corner where he found you, whatever. And so when we were walking out, the guy says, is your brother's name, Loomis, Beyonce?

And I said, oh. So he said, yeah, I'm the one that kicked his, and I said, well, from where I was, You kicked your. So, you know, we had this big confrontation, and he actually called us some really bad names. And it was pretty bad. But that was just one of the incidences because he actually wound up taking me to jail. Yeah, I went to jail, y'all.

Which my granddaughter just said to me the other day, she said, you went to jail? And I was like, I didn't think about that. Right. I put that in the book. But just riding motorcycles and racing with my brother Butch, he had a bunch of kids out on the beach. And we were racing. And this guy came up and he took me to jail. And he rolled me through the park where if you come to Galveston, there's a park called Menard Park.

And black people would just line up in their Sunday best and be out on the beach. and we would just walk, you know, people would walk through, showing up their outfits, you wash your car and drive through. It was like a parade, you know, it's a little small town. And, um... And V, y'all know about that. Yeah, y'all know about that. Yeah, y'all got that.

So, uh, he drove me through that. So somebody saw me in the car, and they were like, Tina, Beyonce in the police car, and I'm like, oh, Lord. And they took me to jail and did a cavity search. And I talk about that in the book, and it was the most humiliating, traumatized. thing to me to be like, I think at the time I was like maybe 18. And it was terrible.

And he put me in jail and I wound up having to pay all these fines. And we were outside of the city limits. But this guy was just like a nightmare to us because he just was after your family. My family. Everyone. Just jealous. Just jealous. Just jealous.

But when you talk about the fear that. your mother had, getting back to your mother, and I'm sure your father, that fear was real. Yes. But I think the interesting thing, you know, because I talk a lot about fear, because we're living in times where we see how fear can protect you, but it can also keep you locked and small. And it's so important to be able to distinguish between the fear that you need and the fear that keeps you small.

That's right. you have been able to, you know, sort of evolve past that fear. That even though your mother raised you with that real fear, there was something in you that said, I can't carry that fear because I'll get stuck like they did. Right. And that's important for young people to understand. How do you redefine yourself in an environment that,

is justifiably based in real fear? Well, I think that that was justifiably based in fear, and it was real. But I think that when I was a teenager, I think, well, I just think to survive that you're living in it. You don't have a choice about it, so you just don't let yourself dwell on it. Yeah. But I think that my mother's fears of things gave me a fearlessness, because I didn't want to be that. And I wanted to, if somebody was, you know, messing with my kids, then I become a beast. You know, I'm going to fight.

And when somebody's trying to control me, I'm going to fight. But I got that from, you know, from just not wanting to be fearful. But what I do understand is that my mama was still behind the scenes. She was protecting us in her way. I just didn't see it when I was young. it when I was young. I was like she didn't protect me, but she did the best she could do with all the fear that she had because of the things she had been through. Yeah. Yeah. How could I expect her to be fearless?

Yeah. Well, you say something that when I think of my mom, who you guys know, passed a year ago, but I write about her in the light. And she was very determined to not parent the way. way her parents parented her. And I think that that's, you know, and I knew all my grandparents, but I also knew their weaknesses. They believed in things that kids should be seen and not heard, that, you know, the old-fashioned kind of stuff like that. And the thing I always say about my mother's parenting brilliance was that a lot of times we just emulate what we see. But Tina, you're an example that you can change, you can be from one place, be taught a set of things, but you don't have to be of it if it doesn't serve you. Right. And so when you approached becoming a mother,

because I want to talk a little bit about mothering, you made a concerted effort to be a very different mother. Yes. Can you talk about that? The things that, you know, I took the good for my mom, which were so many great things. But I also learned from the things that I felt like she didn't do such a great job on, and that was to protect my children. I think, you know, I would speak up. I would fight with people. I remember traveling with them, especially the business that they went into entertainment.

It was very scary for me. And I remember having to go and fight with light people, fight with, you know, the music people. And here I was this country woman from Texas with this big hair and this thick, thick accent, and people didn't really respect me because they were like, who is she to come in here and start telling us about light?

And I'd say, well, you know, I don't know about light, but I do know that they look gray and they're some black girls, and you better get that blue light off of me. And I wouldn't leave until they, I wasn't aggressive, I wasn't loud. I would just stand there and they say,

okay, well can you move? No. When you change the light, I can move. And I protected them. I didn't let people, you know, do certain things around them. They couldn't smoke weed in the studio around them. They couldn't curse.

Can you imagine my country self in there telling these producers? I'm sorry, but can y'all not smoke in here? You know, and I remember just being having to be a little gangster sometimes, you know. I remember one time we were in one of the first things that we went to in Florida, and there was this group, and I'm not going to say their name, but they were behind us,

and they said, oh, I'm going to take a picture with these and called the girls, and they were like 16, 17, and they said it one time, and I was like, Tina. So you could feel yourself, right? I feel myself, so I turned and they said it again, and I said, I don't see your mama out here. Oh, no. No, but let me tell you.

What was that girl's name? You had a jack. What was their name again? Medina. Medina. Like, I'm going to be made you up in there. So the record people came and they were like, oh my God, this Tina, you cannot do that.

We've got to get you to the car. And they said, they told me the name of the group, and they were like, they will shoot you. And I was like, well, that's going to have to shoot me because they can't talk to my girls like that. And so I did a lot of things out of just being naive, you know, because that just came out of my mouth. You have raised, the other thing about your mothering that was interesting to read about, that people don't, maybe not know, your girls are like night and day. Yeah, they're very different.

Two different people. And, you know, I always say about mothering, you know, you have your first child, and they turn out they're so sweet and they sleep through the night. And you start thinking, I'm such a good mother. And I know what I'm doing. And then the second one shows up. And you're like, oh, no. What did I do?

Can you talk about how you approach sort of seeing both of your daughters for who they were? Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things is just that when somebody asked me what's the best advice I can give to them, it is always that if you have more than one child to see that child for who they are, to try to find out what makes their clock tick or whatever, what excites them, what are their best qualities and not compare. You know, when you grow up, that was another thing that I think my mother, she liked her boys. Oh, she liked her boys. My mother, I tell people, Craig. Yeah. I was like, what do I have to do, lady? I know, that's right.

I'm the first lady of the United States. That's right. She's like, you live in the world. So good. I was like, oh, lady, please. I'm so glad to hear. This is why we are the way we are. That's right.

That's right. Oh, my. But my mom, my brother Larry, that was just her heart and soul. So she'd be like, can you go in there and fix Larry bed? And I'm like, no. Fix his bed? They can fix his own bed. There you go.

But I think I learned from that too because I feel like you can't, you know, you know, you love your kids the same. And then there are qualities about one that you like better maybe than the other. but it's so important to make them feel just as important. And especially when you have a five-year gap like my girls. And so one of the things is, you know, when Beyonce just wanted a little sister so bad and she just loved Solange and adored her. So she got one.

She was ready to send her back. But by the time she got to be 10, she was in that group. And all of a sudden I just started noticing that the girls in the group would say, shut up Solange because Solange being there trying to run things, trying to teach up choreography. Trying to keep up. Trying to keep up with her sister. And Beyonce started letting them say,

shut up, Solange, be quiet, Solange. Mama, come get Salonge, you know. And I was like, this is Salang's house. Y'all in her house. And so I... Don't you love Tina? Yes. No, I'm like, this is that.

Y'all visiting. So, you know, but... And I took them to therapy because I saw a division. She took these people to therapy. I did. I loved that. I did. And, you know, I remember some of my relatives saying,

you're going to make them kids crazy. But I wanted them to be close. And I didn't want there to be this rivalry. And I didn't want it to be that Beyonce was not ride or die for her sister first. You don't let somebody do your sister like that. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

Yeah. And so I took them to therapy, and I found this young man that was amazing, and he explained it all of Beyonce, because I had been explaining to him, but she wasn't listening. That's what they do. That's what they do. These children. Yeah. So things got immediately better with them.

Beyonce hated therapy. Solange love therapy. therapy. And so Solange kept going and eventually her therapist passed away and but and so she stopped going as a kid but it was just great for them and and you know I used to have to have a Salon's day for her because when the kids are not really close together it's I think it's way harder. You know when they're really close together it's different but I just didn't want that rivalry and they have been close ever since. Yeah, I used to have to tell Malia, I still kind of do, is, you know,

I would make the point to her because they're three years apart. And, you know, the big sister knows everything. So you got the little sister at the dinner table, and of course the big sister's like, well, that's not how you say that. And why don't you know this? Right. I would have to pull her aside and be like, don't step on my child. Right.

You know, no one stepped on you. Yeah. When you were her age and you sat at the table. not knowing anything, me and your father were like, oh, every word you utter is so brilliant. And now here you come, you know, making your little sister feel like, not realizing that you're three years older, you know. And they look up to them so much that that is very hurtful to the younger kid,

you know, and a blow to their self-esteem. But I'm the same way about not making comparisons. We got to the point at our dinner table where we just didn't talk about school at all. You know, it would be like, you know, okay, you passed. I didn't want to hear about grades. I didn't want to get into that. Because that's how the comparisons come. Exactly, because I didn't know what kind of student Sasha would be, you know.

So to this day, Malia still feels like, I don't give her enough credit, but she does. She's good. Well, they are both so brilliant. The other thing. I had lunch with them and I was just like, whoa. I mean, so confident and smart and talented. Well, see, the thing is. when we get together, it's like, we don't talk,

because you didn't tell me you were writing a book the last time we had lunch because we were so busy talking to these girls who all talk so much. They do, but it was just fascinating to hear them because it was. Those girls are, oh, I don't know what y'all are all for. Oh, they did. Oh, okay.

One of our many. Yeah, we, you know, they were so smart and they just grew up so fast, I guess because I wasn't around them all the time. Everybody feels that way. But you know what I remember is how they are so patient and, well, I don't know about Malia. No, and I only say that because I've had, yeah. But we.

No, I don't mean it like that. I had more experience. Yeah. But I remember keeping those kids. And how patient she was with the kids. They're wonderful girls. Yeah, yeah. But the thing I like about your mothering is,

and my kids say that this is the phrase they hate for me to say, I'm not one of your little friends. I know that's right. We talked about that. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I don't want to be your little friends. We can be friends later in life.

And so many people are trying to be their kids' friends, and they think that that makes you closer. Cool, yeah. But let me tell you, I was not my children's friend. I loved them deeply. There was respect. And, you know, for those of you who are trying to be friends with your kids, our kids love us just as much as adults.

In fact, the relationship, I think, is even closer, because now they've earned my friendship. Right, right? Exactly. And now you can be friends. Now we can be friends. Now maybe you know something. One thing I wanted to touch on before we move on too

is just mothering in the age of social media and this whole quest for fame and likes in being out there and as a mother who's had to mother people through fame, can you talk a bit about the misperceptions of people who are chasing fame? and how hard it is. Yeah. And whether they're thinking about what they're chasing.

Yeah. Because it's not all fun and games. And the other thing that sets you up for is for people to lie on you and create their own narrative about your life. I have to see it every day on social media. My girls didn't want me on social media for that reason. Tina be acting up on social media.

I did in trouble all times. You know, I read something, and it just makes me so angry, and my fingers just start twitching, and I can't control them. I got to get your thumbs. That's right. Yeah, it's true. But, you know, it's something to want fame, and that's the one thing with young people. They don't, you know, the lights and the glitz.

It's not all that. But there's a lot of sacrifice and a lot of loss. You wind up, you know, you have kids and people who have to grow up really fast, and privacy is over. It's over. And the ability to protect your kids is nothing worse than somebody lying on your kids and saying all this horrible, crazy stuff about them. And it's nothing you could do because as a, you know, a private citizen,

you get to go on a rant on Instagram and clap back. But for me, it makes the news. And then I get the phone call. It's like, can you just be quiet? Well, let's jump ahead to the career, Tina, right? Because, you know, in addition to being a ruthless mother and behind the scene, ruthless and loving, from one ruthless mother to another. No, but you, I love hearing about headliners

because that was the hair salon you started, the beauty center you started, and it sounded so much like the hair salon I went to from the time in Chicago, the time I was old enough to have money to get my own hair done and my mother stopped pressing my hair by the stove. I got babysitting money so I could go to a real hair salon. And it was a real professional hair salon where almost all the professional black women in the city of Chicago went to. And it was called Van Cleef and Ronnie was he was my hairdresser until the time I went to the White House.

Really? Yes, yes. But headliners reminds me of the Houston version of Van Cleef. Can you talk about why you started it, what that was like for you, what it did for you to have your own business, what it made. for you in terms of your self-esteem? Oh, God. It did wonders for my self-esteem because I actually started my salon when I realized that I was totally dependent on my husband financially.

And I felt like... That part, y'all. Yeah. And I felt like I wanted to get out of the marriage, and I was like, what am I going to do? Like, what am... I just felt so dependent, and it really did work on my self-esteem. so I started making this plan to open my business. Now, I have to say that my ex-husband was the person who pushed me to go to beauty school.

He was like, Tina, you're so talented and you can have your own business. And so it wasn't a thing like I just snuck and did it. And he actually helped me, gave me the seed money for it and was like, you know, the marketing mind behind it a lot of times. But that salon allowed me the freedom to feel I was a boss. You know, that was not, it would have been great if I wasn't the boss, but that made it even better. And it was, I wanted it to be a very professional place. And my friend, one of my best friends, Cheryl, is here tonight, too, Cruzo, who was always encouraging me to start the business as well.

Yeah. And she and I used to go to the salon, and we loved it, but they were, you know, selling chicken dinners and hot stuff. And it was all this gossip going on, and people will go, the stylists will go sit down and eat the chicken dinner. And I'm like, I got to get home to my kid. I'm being in there for four hours. I'm being in there for five hours. I was like, I can't do this. And people liked the experience, but I didn't like the experience.

I hated it. She hated it because she was a successful business woman. And so I started the salon, and I wanted it to be, we didn't allow any gossip. If you've got gossip, you've got fired immediately. We were professional. We dressed professional. And we got people in and out. We educated the stylist on technology, and we mixed it with those old-fashioned,

heating up some olive oil and putting egg whites in and, you know, all of the things that I knew the hair needed. But the main thing that happened in that place was just pure love, like camaraderie between women. Because when you provide a space that is positive without that negativity, it flourishes. And people love it. And women flourish.

So it was more than a salon. It was a place of healing. And not looking down, not judging anybody. It was church. That's what it was. We know about that. I mean, how many people here, where your hair salon is like your first.

favorite place to do. Yes. Where all the, I know, I know. And so you provided that space, but I love the way you talk about the need to get your independence because your marriage wasn't always what it should have been. Can you talk a bit about that first marriage? Because I love the way you talk about Matthew. I mean, you, y'all, you are not together.

Right. There's a long breakup. It's a long, long, long. It's a long. I was just like, I'm reading like Tina. Yeah, you're like again? Oh no, he's back. Yes, he's back.

He's back. Many times, that's what Oprah said. She was like, girl, I was like, again. Uh-huh. Yes. But it was love there. It was love there. But it just didn't work.

It didn't work. Tell us about that. Well, I just think that people have, not that I was, not flawed, but, you know, I just think people have their demons. And Matthew has some demons, but I never doubted for one minute that he didn't love me and those girls. And that he didn't take care of me. He protected me.

And I think in my life, when I look back on it, I realized that I stayed so long because he protected me and I didn't have that protection so much when I was coming up. I didn't feel protected. I didn't feel fought for. Oh, they've seen the picture. Oh, okay. I know. I'm like, is that funny?

But no, I was, you know, and he protected me, and he was, and, and, you know, people say, God, you stay with him for 31 years. Well, all 31 years wasn't bad, John. That's right. It was a lot of really great times, and we built things together, and we were very dedicated parents, and so we had a lot of good things, too, and I don't have anything bad to say about him. I mean, I don't. I've forgiven him. And, you know, he's forgiven me for some times, because I'm bad-ass teeny beef, so I'm not trying to act like I was an angel. I wasn't

an angel. What were some of the lessons you learned about yourself in your marriage or in the exiting of your marriage? Well, what I learned about me in my exiting is that, again, that message keeps reoccurring to me that I am enough. Because I realized that I probably would not have stayed if I had just taken the time to really look at myself and give myself credit for all the things that I had accomplished. I was just trying to survive from day to day. It was always some, you know, in therapy, they tell you,

and I've been in therapy forever, that if someone slaps you in the face, and you're trying to recover for it and you get slapped again, you never can recover and get your strength because you're just slapped. I'm not saying he was slapping me, no, that wasn't happening. Don't start no rumors, but no, but I'm just saying, like, it wasn't only my marriage, it was like my parents dying. I lost my parents at my mom at 26 years old.

Six months after I got married, then I lost my dad two years later. And, you know, it was just, Just one thing after another, it was always something that was happening, that I was fighting, and I realized that my whole life has just been filled with challenges. And when you take the time to stop and convince yourself that you are enough and that, you know, you're going to be just fine whether you're with someone or not. Say that part. One more time slowly.

You are. You know, you will be just fine and you will get this call getting through it because you ain't going to get stuck there. There's light at the end of the tunnel and you're going to go through it and you're going to come out on the other side. And whether you are, you know, young or old, I wish I would have learned that lesson a lot earlier, you know. I mean, I'm trying my best because I know that when it comes to raising daughters and women, you know, we're socialized to think that we, aren't good enough. We're socialized to think that we need somebody else to make us whole. And that starts so young.

I mean, it starts with Barbie dolls and kin and the wedding dress and the questions that we ask our daughters. You know, my grandmother, when I'm in law school at Harvard, y'all, my grandmother, I would call her to check in and she'd be like, what'd you make for dinner? And I was like, nothing, Grandma, I'm in law school. school. I don't even have a kitchen in my dorm. Right. You know, but it was the message. There was a message. So I'm trying to figure out how to not program that in my girls and the girls in my life.

Because, you know, if you ask somebody, are you dating somebody? You know, they might be happy, but then you're asking them, well, you're happy, but are you dating somebody? And then they're dating somebody and then it's like, oh, you're dating somebody when you're getting married. Right. And then it's on and on and on. So when you're going to have a baby. And that's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. That's true. So

what would you tell young people out there about marriage and how they should think about it. Well, I think that marriage is wonderful and I hope that it is in everyone's future because I think it's a beautiful way to build a life together.

But that the person that choose to build it has to be on the same page. There you go. They can't be on a different page, you know. But I think that love is wonderful, and I hope that everyone finds it. But if you are not with a partner, I think you can have just as fulfilled full of a life. And that is better to be by yourself than to be with somebody who don't get it. Yes.

Yeah. Or that's not so excited when you walk into the room that you're going to the room that you're they understand that you are a prize, you know? I want to talk a bit about Uncle Johnny because, you know, through it all, right? Because you were managing a salon, two creative girls who had careers skyrocketing and trying to travel, trying to keep a marriage together.

And it sounded like Johnny was a huge part of health. helping you keep your life together? You want to talk about? Yeah, well, Johnny was, you know, by the time the girls got going really well, he was, you know, he was really sick. But just in my life, since I was born, that was the person that I trusted more than anybody in the world

that I felt like never judged me. And didn't judge anybody else. And that was just the most creative, free person. Because think about being born. in that time. Yes. If I was born in 54, he was born in, what, 50, 1950, and he knew he was gay from probably three or four years old,

and how hard it was. But Johnny was my light. You know, my mama used to say, when Johnny fought, you got to be there to catch it. And it was true, because I just was there. You know, every day, he was my best friend. and I could just be really, really free with him. Yeah, he was amazing.

He could cook. He could so better than anybody. He was the sharpest. He would make these beautiful clothes. And he would be genuinely himself in the front of anybody, you know, and not hide any part of him. I was so in awe of that, you know, how free he was. Yes, yeah.

And he, you know, he came to work for me at the high. house and, you know, it was the, even that gave me so much freedom because I knew that he was taking such good care of my girls and they loved him, they adored him. He's the reason why, you know, there is a renaissance. And he's a big reason why there, that I was able to do those costumes and all of that. He affected my life more than anybody else in my life. You have spent your life taking care of everybody else. You're doing it to this day. I mean, in the midst of your book tour,

your mind, I know, is back there. And, you know, I can see your brain working up here. And sometimes that can take a toll. And for you, at one point, you know, you weren't focusing on your health. Yeah. And you share in the book that you almost missed a life-changing, diagnosis. You want to talk a bit about that? Yeah, just, you know, I struggle. I have two endings

to the book, and if you guys, when you read the book, you'll see that it's like an ending of the book, and then I go back and talk about my cancer journey. And the reason why I did that is because in 2022, I made my mammogram appointment, and right before it was to happen, COVID came. And they called me and told me, you know, we're not doing them in person, but we'll call. And we'll call. you when we start again. So in my mind, I just got so busy with everything else that I did not go in 23. When it came back, you know, around that time, I thought I had gone in 22 and then 24 came and I was like, I got to go have my mammogram. I got to get all of my health things. So I did them and they actually found like some spot on my cervix. And so

I went back and had that biopsy, and it was fine. So I was like, I'm fine. I don't need to rush to have the mammogram. But I waited and waited. It was like five or six months before I went back, not the mammogram, but the biopsy. And then when I went and they said, oh, you have cancer, I was like, not me. Like, it was so shocking to me. And even though it was early stages, I went, I flew to Houston to tell my sister Flo.

And I said, well, I have the first, you know, I have the lowest stage. I have stage one, and she said, no, actually it's a stage zero. And it just hit me that I could have got this at stage zero. Yeah. And I am so blessed because they still got it very early and I didn't have to go to radiation or chemotherapy. Thank you, Jesus. But the point is that I could have kept going and not going.

And it could have been stage four by the time I went. So I wanted people to think about that for a second. And I can tell you that one of the best things to come of this is on my Instagram, I can't tell you how many people said I'm going to go get my mammogram. I've been putting it off for three years. You know, we have to, as women, take the time to take care of ourselves and go get our exams and not just put it off

because there's so much going on all the time and you want to take care of everybody else. Please, y'all listen to this. It's the truth. Because this is so prevalent. in our community. It's not just men, women, but it's men. Man too.

And, you know, breast cancer is not a death sentence in the way that it was. It is if we aren't checking. It is if we get too busy and life gets in the way. But with regular screening, and really, you know, people should be going to the doctor. And I know in a time when people don't have health care, it's expensive.

You know, this is why we need to have health care, which is why it matters who is in the White House. Why you should be voting on and on and on, because having access to regular care will save your life. Right. And me, you know, I was in the Hamptons. I was just having a good time. And my, no, and I say that because I planned,

I was there and I was like, I'm just going to stay another. few weeks and then something just hit me one day that Tina you better go back and get that that my opposite you are being very irresponsible right now so I went home you know I went home I think two days later and my kids were like stay don't go back and and you know I went and thank God I went because I would have came back and got busy and then it would have been another year and that's what happens to us so please please do that We're coming to a close, but I want to, I know, I know, I know, I'm looking at the clock going, you lie, you clock, you're a lie.

But I have, but I've got some fun rapid fire closing things I want to do. But Tina, I want you to talk a little bit about sort of finding your wisdom or acknowledging your wisdom. Because there's, you know, there's so much wisdom in this book. But I know you're like me, and I've said this before, but at 61, I am just now willing to recognize that maybe, just maybe, I know something about something. I know. It's true. And I'm just wondering how you feel about why does it take women so, why does it take us so long

as women to own our wisdom. I think, you know, it's funny because I said people approached me about a book before, and even when they approached me this time, which was different, I kept saying, I'm not telling y'all my kids' business. So if that's why they want to do a book deal, then I don't want to do it because I'm not going to share other people's stories. I'm not going to tell their business. but just the fact that I didn't feel like my story was worthy

that anybody wanted to hear about my story, it's crazy. And I had to, you know, go in. And when I first talked to them, I was like, I'll do a book on behind-the-scenes things that happened, but I'm not going to do a memoir. And, you know, Kevin O'Leary is somewhere in the audience, too, and I would love for him to stand up. He is my collaboration.

of him. Collaborator. And you know, when you write a book, your collaborator is so important because he's the person that went and found all this history on Weeks Island and Galveston and, you know, he taught me some things and he fact-checked things because, you know, in your brain, I'm like, oh, but I was 19 so-and-so, and he's like, no, that didn't happen then. Really? Because he's fact-checked.

And then you argue with him like, no, I don't. Right, right. You don't know. But in talking to him at first, he was the one that encouraged me to just be more open. He's like, Miss Tina, people would love to hear about that. And I was like, you think so? And he's like, yes. And we, you know, this book was 1,000 pages.

We had to take 500 pages out. Can you imagine? So, so many more stories. And, um... Part two. Part two. That's old. They're part, too.

By the publishers in the house? But yeah, so I didn't even think that people would want to hear. I was like, they're just going to want to hear about my kids. But it's so much of the book that you go through before you even hear about my kids. That's why you're number one on that. Oh, that's Stella's list. Well, I am grateful that you have shared your story with us. But before we close, let's do something fun.

Okay. I would love that. We're going to have some fun in the spirit of the IMO podcast. We are going to do a special, in my opinion, rapid fire segment. I'm going to call out a few prompts, and I want you to tell all of us the first things that come to mind. Okay. The ultimate style icon is...

Oh, God, it's too many to... I mean, I have so many style icons back from the 40s. You know, just, I don't know, Diana Ross. Well, I think that's a good one. Yeah. I don't know. Okay. I don't know.

Too many. Diana Ross, share. I take those. I think we, I think those are good. A good date must include. Good music. Oh. Yeah.

Some dancing. Do you have a song that just gets you like, hmm? You know, my favorite song is for the, love of you. Oh, yeah. The eyes leaves. Oh, yeah. That's just the best.

Oh, yes. The best soul food dish is? Well, it's not your IMO. Just sold food, some good old cabbage and mac and cheese and greens. Yeah. You know, this is like true. There is no sold food dish. Soul food is an experience.

It is an experience. It's many dishes. Yes, it's love. All right. The best show on TV right now is. Oh, God, the best... I know, that's hard. Do you even have time to watch TV these days?

Not a lot. I have to be honest. I haven't watched it a lot. But I love sisters. Oh, yeah. I love sisters because it is just... It's some real stuff on there. Tyler just gets it, you know?

Tyler tends to do that. He does that. It's real. And, you know, people can talk all that stuff, but I'm like, I know somebody just like every one of those girls. The best movie ever made. Ooh, a bit. Cooney High.

You know, when he gets beat up and up under the L. Don't you cry? I cry every time. I'm like I've seen this 75 times, but I still cry. Do the young people even know what we're talking about? No. Listen, you have to give up your black card if you haven't seen Cooney High. Hand it over, put it on the stage.

Hand it on. Your black card. And the five heartbeats. Okay, a green flag, a green flag in dating that's often overlooked. A green flag. Oh, God, a green flag. I think just someone being, for me, being a gentleman. Yeah.

Just being kind. Yeah, being kind. Forget how much you make. Just be kind. Right, exactly. One thing that's changing in your life right now, now for the better is I am really feeling myself right now. Woo!

Woo! I like that. An underrated beauty hack? Probably this ice thing. Have y'all trying the ice? Would you put your face in ice? Yes, put your face in the ice or either get an ice cube. Blue taught me this.

Okay. You take an ice cube. It's the baby. And it tightens up your, yeah, they get all the hacks off of YouTube. So how long do you have to put the ice on your face? Well, you can take an ice cube. Well, actually, Jules taught me that. He was like, Grandma, you don't have to put your face in it.

Okay. Because that's really hard, but just use the ice cube and it kind of lifts up stuff. You know, at my age, you got to try everything. I'm going to. First of all, Tina, you are beautiful. You have not aged one iota. I mean, you are looking so good. So tell us as we close, what does it truly mean to be a patriarch?

To be a patriarch? To be a patriarch. Oh, I think to love unconditionally your children, your grandchildren, the people that you have in your life and to be respectful and just, you know, a father figure to people that is not all about being about yourself, like an unselfishness. Yeah. That's what a page. I mean, you know, handling things. Handling, handling things. And Tina

Noles is handling some things, y'all. I just want to say, thank you for inviting me to open your book tour. You know, there's so much about you that I knew, but I learned so, so much more about you in these pages that makes me just love you so much more. Y'all, we didn't even, we just barely scratched the surface. There are so many good stories in this book. There's so much wisdom that you spit out.

And with this level of humor and honesty, you will be cracking up, you will be crying. you will feel renewed, and you will walk away learning something, which is what IMO is all about. Thank you. Thank you for your honesty, your candor. And I'll see you on tour, right? I see you out there. I love you, everyone.

Everyone, big hand for Tina Knows. Thank you.