IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Put in the Work with Spike Lee

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

On this very special episode of IMO, legendary filmmaker Spike Lee joins the podcast to discuss his new film Highest 2 Lowest. He shares how his childhood shaped his art, behind-the-scenes stories of Do the Right Thing and BlacKkKlansman, and his favoriteNew York sports stories. Plus, Michelle and Craig discover a very small world (and highly influential) connection with Spike.Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I have something called, I don't have this sllexia. I have something else. What is that? The slip it? Should be slipping. Set that up. This episode is brought to you by Colagard and Chase Home Lending. Well, hello.

Craig Robinson. Michelle Obama, how are you? In my opinion, I am delighted to be here. That's cute. I am so happy to see you in your bright yellow. Yeah, we got a little sparkle going on. Yeah. Yeah, I think, yeah, I felt like dressing up for our guests today.

Yeah. But what's been going on with you? Not much. I've been, actually, I've been on the road with the kids for summer hoops. So there's been a little bit more than usual. But loving my time popping in to say hi to you and a couple of guests. So really excited. You know, you're in quickly like I am traveling,

and I'm staying at this Airbnb in Georgetown. And it's really neat. But you know what's really neat other than being able to walk around the neighborhood and get a coffee or get something to eat and everything's in walking distance? even our dinner last night. But the host lives nearby, and he was kind enough to come by and say hello.

Oh, that's nice. And often give me a tour of the spot. It was really neat. And we've been so busy, I haven't been able to take them up on it. But I will do that the next time I'm here, because I think I'll stay here again. Well, that's kind of that experience, when we think about when we had Brian Chesky,

on who's the founder and CEO of Airbnb. It sounds like your experience is more along the lines of how he initially envisioned the Airbnb experience that you would actually stay in the home of someone and kind of get to know them. Yeah. Right. It's more communal. More communal.

I think this is the first time you've met the host. This is. Yeah. is. And so you know what? It feels less transactional. It was really, really nice. And I would encourage owners to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, shout out to the Airbnb host in Georgetown who's looking after my big brother. Thank you for making him feel at home. So we got a good conversation planned for this episode. We do. We do. This is not only going to be a good. It's going to be a fun conversation. I'm really looking forward to it. Spike Lee

is an Academy Award winning director, producer, writer, actor, and author who helped revolutionize modern black filmmaking. He's a graduate of Morehouse College and New York University's Tisch School of Arts, where he is a tenured professor of film and artistic director. His newest film is highest to lowest, streaming now on Apple TV Plus. And you and I both got to preview it.

So I can't wait to talk to him. It's a great project. Yeah. So without any further ado, Mr. Spike Lee. The one, the only, in the flesh. On the Spike. Sis. Love you, sweetie.

Love you. I love you. Brother man. Thank you for this. What's up? No, what happened. So. Thank you.

Well, we concocted this visit just a couple of days ago. Spike and Tanya came over. We were having a little meal. A little something, something like we do in the vineyard. Because I love Spike, but I love Tanya even more. Probably a little, you should. You should understand. Because Tanya is the real star.

She's beautiful, smart. You know, you start wondering, how'd you do that, Spike? Teller, you had some gang back in the day. There's just many of each other in time, stop. Did, okay, all right, that was good. So tell us, okay, tell us the origin story. Well, I wasn't for the Congressional Black Caucus weekend. Okay.

And I was there to show a couple of scenes from Malcolm X. I had a date. Oh. Oh. So as I was going to the restroom and she was going in the restroom, we saw each other. Okay. Where was your date? She's like to go to Minnesota with me, you know.

You left her in the chair. It's like, you wait here. No, I said to go to the restroom. So we paused and looked at each other. And so I got out there and, you know, gave a little speech, and we showed. the clip, people love the film. Denzel's Malcolm, come on now. Yeah, yeah.

And so night went on and I was looking for time at the rest of the night, but it was time to go. So, I'm going down the escalator. My date at night. And she's going up the escalator. So I said, I got to the bottom.

We looked each other. It was like this. Truly ships passing. Yeah, it wasn't no goo-goo eyes, not like that, but it was just a look. So I got to the bottom of the elevator on the escalator. I said, you know what? I forgot my monk-blunk pen. Oh, man.

You lied. No, he acted. He's an actor. He's like, not really, but this is a monblon. You don't have to be monoc? That type of money. And we exchange numbers. And the rest is history of history.

Okay. I never heard that story. I like that story. That's sweet. Now I got to get her version of it. I'm going to do that when we get back to the vineyard. That's beautiful. Spike is my brother.

We've gotten to know each other. Over the years. Over the years. And Rio getting to know, you know. And I like the same behalf of, Ty and I, we're on the island and we get an invitation from our peoples, our folks. We're like, we're going.

Yeah. So we concocted. this episode visit over dinner. We were talking about the new film, which we'll get into. Can I just jump real quick? Please. Can we talk about your first date?

Well, you know. Because who hasn't heard about this person? This is another reason, another thing that connects us. The Obama's deeply to the Lees and to Spike in particular. When I see Barack, I say,

good thing Good thing you made that movie No good thing you'd say we're going to see Drive is Daisy Yeah All right In the wrong move

My son to head Drivers of Daisy That's like excuse me Well as the story goes I wasn't real clear That it was appropriate For me to date my husband Right

Because we worked in the same place Right You know We probably want a a handful of black folks. But he was persistent. And he said, you know, who cares what these folks think? You know, we want to go out.

We should just give it a shot. So I acquiesced. And he planned a beautiful day. Didn't even know. It was sort of one of those dates that go on and on. Started with lovely time spent at the Art Institute. You know, he was showing all his sides, you know, his cultural, artistic side. He was bringing it.

He was backing. You know, walking slowly as he, you know, noticed things in the Monet and the this and the that. And then we had lunch in the courtyard in the Art Institute. And if you know, Chicago, it's one magnificent mile. So down Michigan Avenue from the Art Institute is on the South Inn. We strolled all the way north, walking, talking all the way. You know, the evening starts, the day is starting to unfold. I'm starting to see new sides of him.

I'm starting to look at him in a different way. I think we had dinner, Lake Point Tower, which is further down, lovely, sky view, so nice restaurant, good food. And then he says we should take in a movie, do the right thing, had just come out. It was the first weekend. And if anybody knows anything about Spike Lee and his movies, you know, they were a happening. They still are a happening. And so do the right thing was a thing you had to see.

And the fact that this brother was hit to the fact that we needed to see it on its opening night. It was impressive. So we watched the movie. It was phenomenal, you know, controversial. He did. He did the right thing. Don the garbage can't do Sal's famous piece of the window? It's like, right.

But then after, because do the right thing is the kind of movie that after you watch it, you got to talk about it, you know? I mean, now you find out, you know, I found out his character, you know, did he see what I see? Did he have the feelings that I felt? Did he get what I got out of the movie? So we talk for hours after the movie like everyone would tend to do. And I would say that that date probably sealed the deal. Wasn't drama. It wasn't driving as to Daisy.

Was not driving as crazy. A caddy board winner. Yes. Best picture. Yeah. No, that didn't do it. It was Spike Lee's joint. Thank you, Spike for this.

No, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I like it. Spike is like, I want to hear that story. But that's the person I ever heard it from my sister. I read about it. Oh. Yes, we haven't. But wasn't it last summer, the two summers ago, you gave us the sign?

The street sign. You know, which was, we got this is, you know, this is like, you know, fancy friends. Because you gave us a do the right thing street signed from the-street got renamed, do the right thing. We got renamed. We got a sign that is signed by Spike Lee. It's in, it's in the house. Well, you know. Thank you for that.

Spike is a thoughtful person. And now I haven't known him as long as you have. But I will tell our audience that when we had dinner together at your house on the vineyard, Spike found out from my wife that our two youngest kids, Austin and Aaron, were big Knicks fans and Spike Lee fans. And the funny thing is, and everybody who's our age is going to laugh at this, they weren't old enough to watch your movies yet at that time. I don't know. He said, I hope not. But you remember what you said? He was like, they can watch Crooklyn.

That's the one. That's the one. They can watch Crooklyn. That's it. And he was as protective of them as we were, and he made the movies. That was what was funny. But you, I don't know if you remember this, but you, and, well, I'm jumping around here. The funny part is they only know you as a Knicks super fan.

That's your claim to fame. That was your claim to fame to them. So when they heard they were coming over to dinner, they were. excited. So what does Spike do? He takes a stroll with them in your backyard about 75 yards down and back and just talk. And you can see Spite, ones on one side, one's on the other. And who's doing all the talking? Spike. And then you see the guy saying something and you see and we're all wondering. We're all wondering. What are those three talking about? How old were they at that time? So this was how many years ago?

Three years ago? I don't know. So they were probably 12 and 10. Is there 15 and 13 now? Yeah, yeah. They can see Crippler. But they're almost at the point, thanks to Malia, they go, she wants them to see some R-rated stuff.

So. That wasn't me. I know. They're older now. They're older now. They're older now. But my point is, I mean, you haven't known. You are a generous soul.

because And kids are very important to you. I mean, anytime there are young people, you know, in our presence, Spike, you, I know, you will go, you, you, you, you, you, bird's eye to the young people. Mm-hmm. Yeah, now, Tanya says that's because you are a big old kid yourself. Oh, she's, uh. She said more than that. Yeah.

You are crazy. We've been married 30 years We've been married 30 years. We've been doing. Oh, man. I'm going to get you out of trouble. Spike, what is, what's your favorite film that you have made? Or do you have a favorite?

I know you probably get this all the time, but we've never talked about this. I'm going to, if I could turn your question around. Please. This back-to-school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. You know, Mish, I've had such fond memories of our kids' first day of school, and I'm just thinking back to when we would get them ready and go shopping for school supplies and how excited they got over a new T-shirt. I know, right, right.

A new pair of shorts. New pencils, all the excitement over decorating their lockers. One of the things that I used to do in preparation for school, because our summers in the White House got pretty exciting. I mean, it was usually when we did an international trip because the girls were away. So summers were fun. It was camp. And I found that a couple of years, they weren't mentally ready to get back to school because they were having so much fun. Right. Right. So I started employing a strategy that fun had to stop two weeks before school started. Oh, me. So that they would be no fun, no, nothing planned, just bored. So that by the end of the end of the, that two weeks, they would be begging me to go to school. So I learned that strategy because if it's fun

up into the end, they're like, why would we want summer to stop? That's tough. And when we were growing up, we were always ready for school because summers would drag on forever. Yeah, because even when we went to day camp, that ended in the end of July. So August was like, you had dead space. You had to figure out your own playing. Well, I tell you, these kids have really been the spoiled with vacations and all this great stuff. But I really look forward to back to school and the excitement. At our house now, it's more about what day you get your haircut. You've got to get the fresh cut close enough to the start of school so that it's still fresh. And for us this year, it's going to be a tough one because it's the weekend of Labor Day.

So we, those fresh haircuts are going to be like four or five days old. by the time they get to school. And then there was just the back-to-school shopping, which I must say cannot relate to because, as First Lady, it was very hard for me to do the back-to-school shopping with the motorcade and police and all of that. I remember when we used to run around to a million different stores chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes, calculators.

Now with Amazon, everything you could ever need can be purchased from anywhere you are. You can be on vacation, a sports field, and get all of it delivered fast right to your doorstep. One click, no stress. And with Amazon's low back-to-school prices, you can spend less on your kids. Who could ask for anything more? When people come up, total strangers come up to me, more people say Crook than any other film. Yeah, wow. Wow.

You do right thing. More than Malcolm Max is just that. That family. Yeah. They asked to film people love, and not just black folks. It's just that family. Yeah. And Derway played my father.

I don't know if he would have played my mother. And so my mother had to be the tough cop. Because my father was like, Daddy, can you tell you, go ahead, but just don't hurt yourself. Yeah. So she was forced to be the cop. And so we grew up sometimes, like not liking our mother. Because she lets do nothing. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. I'm older as a five. We were crazy. Yeah. We were just, wow, Brooklyn kids. They were like, and my mother had to be a disciplinarian because otherwise we would,

it would not have been good. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so I feel bad like we saw all the, so our mother's as a bad, yeah, yeah. The sheriff. Yeah. Because she wouldn't let's do nothing.

And so you mad at her. And she's holding it down for everybody. Holding it down. Hold it down. Yeah. So that's why I think people think Crooklyn. These are total strangers just coming to say. Yeah.

They name them all that says, my favorite is Crookane. And not just black folks, too. Did you always know that you wanted to go to be a filmmaker? No, that came late. I just went to the movies. Yeah. Well, I went to the movies. I mean, this is a little screaming.

This is like the early 60s. So, you know what I tell you? What I say? Film chose me. Cinema chose me. It wasn't, I didn't choose cinema. How so? Summer of 1977, one of the most infamous summers of New York's history.

And I had a friend, her name is Vietta Johnson, smart. Do you wait? Did she go to Princeton? Yes. Let me tell the story. Let me tell the story. Okay. So, Vietta and I grew up together.

Okay. And went to Stuyves. The top high school. Yeah, Stuyvesant High School, yeah. Broken Tech was on the block of my officers, Stuyvesant and in science. Yeah. And so she was always smart. And that summer, New York City was broke.

There's a famous front page of Daily News for the city drop dead. That's president of Ford. So I came up for the summer and there were no summer jobs. Because I wanted to make some money so I could have some fresh clothes going back to school in the fall. And that summer, all we would do was play sports, you know, stick balls, stoop ball, stuff like that. And this day changed my life. There's no BS. I went to Civietta.

She lived in a universe house, another side of Fort Green Park. rang the bus, said, come on up. So she's studying for some tests. SA, T, where it was. So we're sitting in the living room, and there's a box. This is a true story. This day changed my life.

I said, what's in that box? He said, oh, it's a Super 8 camera. My father gave me. I don't want it. I said, what's an other box? It's the cartridge for the Super 8. You could have it. Well, your father gave it to you.

He gave it to me, but I'm going to be a doctor. Right. Yeah. She was studying with some L-SAT, whatever it was. And so now I had something to do for the summer. Wow. How old were you? I was a 77.

Oh, yeah, you had to be, she had to be a jury. 20 years old, I was 157. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So now I had something to do. So I spent the whole summer filming. Wow. And that summer was a summer to a blackout. Uh-huh.

So when it happened, my father had to drive me around to see my fellow Bawiquas, Puerto Ricans. Mm-hmm. And my brother and sisters, looting. I had it all driving, cars, catalogs out through the wind. I mean. So you're in the middle of the looting. So you're catching it all. Yes.

So I come back to school for my junior year and I declare my major, mass communications. More than I had that. Clark is across the street. So I'd declare myself Mass medications, mass medications, which is film, TV, print journalism, and radio. And this teacher

helped tell him out, his name is Stilted, Dr. Herb Eicholberger. I told him out this footage I have. He said, you should make a documentary. He encouraged me. On days where he didn't have to work, he would come in

and open up the office, the center for, film. So I made this the film was called Last Hustle in Brooklyn. Hom homage, Last Huston, Paris Brando. Anyway.

No, that's something that brandon. But I made the film worked on a first semester. The spring semester, I showed my class. That got a response. So then and there I said, I'm going to be a filmmaker. Wow.

So I was focused. Yeah. Graduate Morehouse. I want to go to film school. I applied to The three best film schools. USC. Dan, da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

Thank you. You were crazy. A.I. American Film Institute and NYU. Okay. At that time, they get into AFI and USC, you had to get an astronomical score on a GRE. Okay. I did not get the astronomical score. NYU, all you had to do is submit a creative portfolio.

Uh-huh. Oh, and you had your documentary. Wow. And I could, first of all, at that time, I even had my driver's lights. So it would have been crazy being in L. But now I'm Typical New Yorker I know really

That's what I thought It's like what was I thinking I was like Wait a minute Because Tanya said I'm tired of driving you around You know You just barely

You're right right We don't need to drive his license You're Typical New Yorker So we use the USC is out It's out So Came NYU

Mm-hmm Ang Lee and Ernest Dixon from my class. Ernest shot all my stuff. Angley was in your class, yeah. Ernst from Howard, so right away, more than Howard, we were like, yeah, yeah. So Ernest shot all my,

my thesis film was a film called Joe's Best Side Barbers, we cut heads, won a student Academy Award, then later Ernst's shot for me together. She's going to have it, school days, do the right thing, Mo Better Blues, Jungle Fevers, and Malcolm X.

Man. All because Vietta gave you her father's camera. You know. That was not an accident. So wait. That was not some happenstance. That was God, I love, where we want to call it. All right.

So crazy connection. Vietta Johnson was one of my brother's first girlfriends at Princeton. Did she run track then? She ran track. He's at them. I've never since publicly. Uh-huh. Ever.

Hey, Vietta, by the way. I've never even told Vietta that. Uh-huh. Oh, she doesn't know? She never knew I liked her. You liked Vietta? Everybody likes it. Everybody liked it.

I didn't like her. I liked it to her. You liked it. You liked it. You liked it. Well, that was Craig's girlfriend. See, that's why y'all liked each other. The black photos in Puerto Rico.

That's crazy. That's crazy. I liked that. I liked that. That's crazy. And then what happened? With Vietta? You tried to get in your business.

It didn't work out. Didn't work out. She dropped me. But that's okay. He was young. He was a younger. Kendra's spirits. I was too young for her.

He was a freshman. You know where she's from, right? Yeah. Where? Brooklyn. The people's Republican. Well, the people's Republican broke. That might have been a little,

a little, that would have reached you. Well, I'm glad we shared that because Vietta should know. I should know that. I should know that story. Yeah. But I think about that, you know, life go this way. That's right. If you knocked on her door.

That day. Not rang the bell, sorry. Yes. If her father did not give her that Super A camera, I wouldn't be here. You wouldn't be here. Or if she was interested in the camera herself. And she, Vietta, did. become a doctor.

So she was very clear. Yes. Yeah. I mean, life, I think about it. Yeah. That's crazy. That's like, God, dad. That's crazy.

Well, it's a good thing you were good at it. So you've had a pretty, you know, steady team throughout your film career. I mean, you see the credits, you know, you see your same crew. your photographer, you know, is that your good luck charm? Do you, you know, is that, is that normal in filmmaking? I would say. People have those long, long relationships.

Film after film. You know that this, it's relationships. That can provide film. Sport teams. Yeah. You know, so it's people you're comfortable with and that you go flow with. And people that, here's an important thing, that you could, you trust their opinions.

Yeah. Am I right or wrong? You're right. Because if some, you work with some Mama Luke's. You know, okay, Mama Luke. Let's explain that for the people. It's a tiny American. My family's the first family to move in the Kabul Hole because I was born in Atlanta.

Yeah, yeah. When we moved in the Cobble Hill, Brooklyn, it was stone. We were the first black family. Yeah. And so I began to think about Duderian thing in jungle fever came from being a child. And a predominantly Italian-American name.

So Mama Luke. Mama Luke. It's not good. You don't want to be a mama luke. So when you trust someone, you know they have one one of the best for you. So they're not going to tell you some crazy stuff.

Now, you don't, somebody's repent you don't respect. you know, I can listen because you don't know where that's coming from. Right, right. And we all know in this room.

In the room. We've taken, in the world, you're taking some advice or something and then say, God, yeah, I don't know, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But when you're surrounded by people want you to be the best you can be, you can trust me. Yeah. And we've all seen teams, guys are getting along and this or that and like it comes on

the court. Yeah. Now, how was that game seven? May of 1970. Which game is this? Fill me in. The next first world championship. Okay.

That's the Los Angeles. It's like, which game is this? I'm sorry. I'm talking about this team. Coach Red Holshman. Yes. Starting five. Okay.

Willis Reed, Dave DeBusher, Bill Bradley, Dick Barnett, recently passed away. This was before. I even knew basketball existed, but thank you. That's the team. Off the bench, Cassie Russell. Dave Stoll. Mike Reardon. I was at that game.

Okay. My father's lawyer had season tickets and he promised me there was a game seven. You can go. And it's the Willis Reed game. Willis Reed, game five, got hurt. He didn't play game six. And I've been to Super Bowls, World Cups, World Series. I've never heard a noise.

Crawled noise as loud when Willis, when he dragged his leg out, that noise. The teams, both teams were doing that layup line. The entire Laker team froze. Turned around. So Willis Reed drag his leg. What happened to his leg? Well, he had hurt his leg in game five and didn't come out to warm up with the rest of the team.

So the Lakers were thinking, okay, great. Willis Reed's not playing game seven. We're in good shape. But he came out late. Okay. And I can't even imagine the sound of the credit. The garden is. Yeah.

I mean, you know, when it's packed, it's one of the three to all-time greatest. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So this is one of your famous sports analogies. that gets us back to team. Yes. See what I have to deal with here? This is what I got to deal with.

Sports is in every. You don't know that your sister? I know that's what you think, Spike and Craig. Mahatma Ali, Jackie Robinson. We go on and on. But then you got to know the game. It's like, nah, it took me five minutes to figure out, well, what happened to his leg? I want to say the listeners, please forgive me because I have something called

I don't have this sluxia. That's something else. What is that? The slip it. Should be slipping. You've been setting that up. That was, hey, yeah, yeah, that was, that was. It's also called broken names too.

Just slipia. I'm generally good. I can keep us on course, you know, but the zero. I'm not turning my best way. I had some sleep last night. I mean, shoot. But let's talk about highest. lowest. Yes.

Mm-hmm. Please. When I was in film school, NYU graded at film school, I was introduced to Japanese cinema. Mm-hmm. The giant of Japanese cinema. Our producer, Dan, is losing his mind

that you even brought this up. He's a cinephile nerdy. He's a centipile and Spike Lee. We were just talking about, well, you do know that this was a... Kurosawa. Curisawa. And I'm like, no, I did not. So he's so.

happy. Please continue. In film school, in graduate film school, you introduced a lot of international cinema. And Rashamon really made an effect on me. In this film,

there's a murder and rape in characters. It'd speak on it. In fact, that's where the term comes to Roshamone effect, where the same, different people see the same thing. So that gave you. So that gave, that was a colonel for she's got to add. Where Noel's three boyfriend and her address, speak to the camera and say what their stories are left to the audience.

Yeah. To feel like what do you want to believe. And this film is not a remake. It's an interpretation of the great film by the great Japanese film at Kirikosawa. and low. So we flipped it. So it's, our title is called highest to lowest. But as a nod to Prince, we used the number two instead of... Ah, right. I did know that when I was watching. And I'm blessed to have work with my brother Denzel Washington. Yeah, yeah. He gives a performance. We are blessed that you're working with your

brother Denzel. You know, as some of our listeners may have seen, my brother-in-law, your husband, joined us on the show a few weeks back and had a interesting opinion that ketchup is just for kids. But here at IMO, our opinion is that ketchup is for everyone. And honestly, it has to be Heinz. Mish, I would say that IMO is a pro ketchup podcast. Without a doubt, we believe in ketchup here. at IMO and in life in general. Yeah.

But despite what my husband said, ketchup exists in our household everywhere. Yeah. What are some of the ways you guys use ketchup? Well, you know, there's the basic potato, french fry ketchup dip thing. I mean, it's always there. The girls, you know, before they eat, can even start their meal. The question is always, where's the ketchup?

Yeah. Especially with fries. because it's a rare fry that you can get away with just salt and pepper. Yeah, and having a little bit of that tomato-wee rich flavor. Vine ripen. You know, and, you know, it gives it a little substance, you know. It's not dripping down your fry. And then barbecues.

Yes, I was going to say grilling, you have to have ketchup for your burger. And I'm not even offended if I'm grilling and people put ketchup on their burger. You can dip it or you can have it on there. I'm not offended. I'm not offended. And I'm from Chicago. I'm not offended if you put it on your hot dog. And that's a question.

Are you a poor or are you a dipper? Because people have a certain opinion about ketchup. Some people want one application. Yeah. Other people want a bite, a dip, a dip, a bite. Do you have a preference? My preference, it depends on what I'm eating. So if I'm eating a hamburger, I like to dip my hamburger.

into the ketchup. Got it. I love, because I want to a bite of ketchup with my hamburger. But if I have a brat or a Polish or I want to have it along the length of the broth. I can picture that. Oh, and that just reminds me, even though my kids aren't young, as a mother of little kids, ketchup was an important source of vegetable intake, especially when it came to broccoli. I mean, you know, look, you want your kids to get their vegetables in. And let me tell you,

ketchup is an excellent vegetable delivery system. Absolutely. We got a lot of broccoli down just with a little Heinz ketchup dip, made the girls happy. I was happy. Genius. Kids were happy. Veggies were eaten. Life goes on. And at the end of the day, it has to be Heinz. It's kind of sad because this might be the last film that we're doing. He's talked about retiring. Every time I read the article, he's retiring, he's doing another movie. So who knows? So I said today, I'm going to say, I'm going to stop saying that this is my last film.

Right, right. I thought I got to stop saying that. Yeah, you don't know. Because you keep saying that, it's going to make that happen. Yeah, that's right. And Denzel, you know, it's all that was Spike. You know, I said it was, but you think it's so, so. Yeah, yeah.

Denzel, I'm going to stop saying that. Okay. In order. Moe better blues. Yeah. Malcolm X. He got game, Inside Man. And here's the crazy thing.

Both Denzel and I did not know eight years had gone past between Inside Man and Highs-Loss. We both. Just, time just went. Yeah. I wouldn't have thought that either. We didn't know. We were shot. We had like 18 years?

But because, you know, inside man's feels fresh, you know. I mean, it did, you know, it's a standout. I mean, it's on the top of everyone's favorite spike movies. So it feels like it just happened, you know. And you haven't aged, not a second. My, mine right. Except for your slipology or whatever it is. But it has been, all jokes aside, it's been a gift to work with Denzel.

And added, plus, he has season tickets for the Lakers. You are so silly. So when his schedule comes out, I look over the next. I'm deep. I got this way. And then the way it is now, a lot of times what they're doing now is like, the stop teams during travel. The Knicks are playing the clippers like

So I know the owner. Well, it sounds like you made the movie schedule around the basketball schedule, Spike, and I wouldn't be surprised. Let me tell you this. When we were rolling with... Mm-hmm. We had a game. Mm-hmm.

And the night was shooting People know where they go home at 5 o'clock. It's like early call time. They're cold. They're saying, I'll be home with dinner. They know. If we're shooting out of the game game. You are crazy.

You are crazy. What's it like to direct Denzel? What makes that partnership special to you? He knows what he's doing. He knows what he wants. He doesn't need 20 takes. Yeah. Wow.

but also he listens to notes. Look, he's not too big for that. When you're great, I'm not going to tell Denzel, well, can you move a little, I mean, look, if there's a note, I tell him. Yeah. But I'm not in this year like, blah, blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. Let's do his thing.

Yeah. Now, actors aren't that level. And not doing what I want to do. Yeah. That's a different story. Mm-hmm. And Denzel, people understand, his improvisation is so great.

You think that stuff is written. Mm-hmm. And it's not, it's like right there. Yeah. And it's the perfect thing you needed. But it's not in the script. Mm-hmm. And when he gets an actor on his,

like on the level and they start going back on improv Yeah Yeah It's just How was It was ASAP Rocky Also

You know Asa I keep telling people Yeah Yeah His performance No no He showed up Yeah

Asap and Denzel That's like a heavyweight fight Right Right It's not a heavyweight lightweight Mm-hmm To toe to toe

Yeah And his And it Yeah Had ASAP He's been in several films. He's been in several films. So it's not his first film.

Okay. He was fun to work with. He has a thing. Denzel is such a powerful actor. I've seen actors like wilt. Yeah, yeah.

It's a lot to work against besides. I mean, you've seen his work. You know what he is. Then you're like, I'm going to see when Denzel was. Yeah. It's like being at

practice with Jordan. Come on now. You know what I'm saying? Oh, Lord, here we go. More basketball. This is not sports talk radio, man. Like, oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, it's just, it's been for Brooklyn. What's the Yankees now?

Yeah, they stay. What else is no? Hey, we've got 27 rings, so don't, don't, don't start. Okay, back to ASAP. Oh, my gosh. Not my sister. You too. I'm going to be it.

Exhausting. I was just getting into hearing about ASAP. No, we're back to that. Oh, good. ASAP. Mm-hmm. He was like... Something else.

He was like, you know, it was like, I got testicles, too. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that scene with him in the... Corn Studio? In the recording studio. Yeah. I know. Don't want to give it away for the listeners.

And you know what's great about the... that. Denzel wants because if he's in the scene and he's killing the other person like that's killing the scene. Yeah, yeah. So he wants.

Yeah. And then here's a thing. Even before I was asked through this film, people have always said ASEP looks like Denzel's son. Have you ever? I've heard that. I've heard people say that.

You see the film again? Now I have to. look for it because I didn't notice it when we were watching the film. People saying that to me for years. And so that adds another layer. Thank you for that word. Yeah, yeah. Another layer.

Because then on a subconscious level, it's a father of sun thing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a fall of sun. Yeah. So you add a layer upon layer. That just makes, that list a whole film out.

Now, in addition to Denzel, I mean, you have given so many black actors and so many actors, period, because of that team. Can't leave out Rosie Perez. Can't leave out Rosie. It's just been amazing how you've been so conscious about, you know, especially with Ozzie Davis, Ruby D. I mean, you. You kept a lot of really amazing actors in the zeitgeist, you know, so that generation. You just made me think of something. What's that? Harry Belafonte. My father played with Harry Belafonte. And every time he would see me Spike, do you have to use Ozzy Erison?

Can't you can't Ozzy just let me get one? And Ozies, excuse me. And Mr. Belafonte. You had to call him Mr. Belpont. His last film was Black Clansmer. You know, his health was not good. So I didn't know until that morning when he's come to the set.

So I had a backup. We had stashed away. Wow, really? I'm not to see it was, but at a hotel. I did not. I told the cast. This day before, I said, you come to work?

Dress your Sunday best. And have you ever been a film set, man? Like this? We're bumming. You know, you're having comfortable. Much like here. No, I'm just kidding. Anyway.

When the car rolled up, when everybody said, all right, he's coming. Everybody was out there. And when he got out of the car, people lost their minds. Wow, I can only imagine. Wow. Wow.

That was a great greatest. Wow. For years, he was saying, Spike, you had that. Mm-hmm. And you've got it. Can Ozzy get arrest for him? Get in there. And you did it.

And we got a man for his last film. Oh, that's great. You did it. But your latest film, you know, it, while there may not be a direct message, that last scene with Denzel and ASAP, there is a statement about the industry, the music industry, and sort of, you know, I don't want to give away a twist, but there's a cynicism about the way young people today use social media, how that affects the creative process.

Can you speak a little bit about how you feel about sort of where things are, how film making is change, how the creative process is being impacted. The thing that scares me, AI with arts. No, all right, you want to be AI for this and that, but when it comes being writing scripts, TV shows, I'm not with that.

Yeah. Because I don't think, in my opinion, you cannot duplicate human beings. My opinion. Yeah. You know what comes? A machine, writing. I'm thinking about AI music.

Yeah. Plays, books. It's... Call me on fashion. Yeah, no. I don't know. I'm out. Just for the audience.

Yeah, okay. Sorry, my bad. I just think that there's some things that are sacred as human beings. That the arts, I have a problem with that. How is it, how do you see it in the classroom? Because you're still, you're teaching. Yeah, but they don't have to write papers for them. Okay.

But scripts? Yeah, I read the scripts, but I can tell they're not. You can tell. Yeah, I can tell. Yeah. But, like, I don't have exams. Yeah, yeah, got it. But people, it's the students who are losing out.

Mm-hmm. Because they're not. And we know, look, at this table, we all know. And we learned this many, many times. Because we didn't get to where we are if it wasn't for that. You got to put the work in. That's right. W-E-R-K.

Mm-hmm. See, just when I think. I love this solo. Just when I think, you know. It's just like. the work in. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

You're right. You think you're getting over. But you're cheating yourself. That's right. And as parents, we've told our children. No, you can't. There's another one. You can't fake the funk.

Yeah. Yeah. So Spike, hold. I'm sorry. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Yes, my sister. Oh, yeah. I like that.

All right. Why you bogart? Yeah. Why you violate it? Oh. It might as well be the same It might as well be the same here As it is everywhere

Go ahead, Your Highness Oh now I forgot what I was going to ask Or what are you going to ask? I was just going to ask What is it take now To get thoughtful, Original Brave Films made in Hollywood?

Oh, okay, that was close to what I was going to ask Oh, well, what do you know? All right. So it worked out. Worked out for me anyway. It's getting harder and harder. Yeah. Because the powers to be, they're just looking at the bottom line.

I know this personally, there are fewer people in those positions, the gatekeepers that are willing to produce. different type of material, more challenging type of material, and not what they think is a guaranteed thing, but there's initiatives, there's nothing that's guaranteed. And it's just tougher. I mean, I have some friends that are in the music industry, these labels are dropping people or foreign people left and right.

So I think there's something that's not just the industry of film, but across the board, people are just less. Everybody wants the same type, you know, they want a category. They want to guarantee. But the audience is there, but they're not. The audience, that's the frustrating thing.

I mean, it's like, you know, you have conversations with some of the decision makers and they swear that the audiences don't exist, you know, that the numbers bear it out. But that, that can't be. possible, you know, that some of the, one could argue that some of the drop in box office is because there's just not enough variety. It's the same thing.

Yeah, it's the same thing. I mean, if I don't like action, if I don't like Marvel, if that just doesn't happen to be my thing, right, well, what am I going to the movie for? And then if you get out of the habit of going to the movie because you just assume, you know, there's nothing there for you. You're going to stream. Yeah, that's the pattern. But I want to see a little bit of everything, you know.

I want to see love stories. I want to see all kinds of faces. I want to see women leads. I want to see stories about coming of age, all of that. And that's why the pressing universe of pictures when I did do the right thing, Tom Pollock, When we were talking about oh Hollywood doesn't take the chance they used to,

Tom Pollack is a hero to me. He was, everybody in Hollywood told him not to make do the right things that black folks would come out of theater riding. There was tremendous,

tremendous pressure on him. He just did a film called Last Temptation of Christ that Martin where his face he directed, he had death threats after that film. Yeah.

He had to have armed guards with him and his family. And on top of that comes do the right thing. Right. Yeah. It was courageous for him to go ahead and make do the right thing

at the last temptation of Christ where him and his family was a potential potential danger. And we had the world, we had the world premier, the work of the do the right thing was in Cannes. And right then, this was caused riots, I mean,

but he stood behind the film. And I don't think there are too many people who were ahead of studios today. That would do that. That would do that. So I'm going to love my brother Tom. Because he people within Universal's boss the industry

the press they said this film would make black folks run amok and he thought otherwise but those

very few of those few and far between yeah in the industry now like that they exist But, you know, the algorithm sometimes it plays too big of a role. Well, speaking of helping folks and generational assistance, we have a thing here on IMO where we get a question from one of our listeners. And this happens to be from one of our listeners in D.C.

Okay, right. Tori from D.C. That question for us. This episode of IMO is sponsored by Chase Home Lending, committed to supporting you all the way home with smart digital home buying tools and resources. Chase Home Lending is dedicated to helping individuals and families achieve their dream of home ownership. They offer expert guidance throughout the home buying journey, helping customers navigate the process with confidence. This brings me back to the business. time when we grew up living upstairs from my aunt in a two-family home that she owned and we rented.

And it was a wonderful time, but being a renter, we had to be extremely careful of what we did. For example, we had to be quiet at a certain time. We couldn't play on the front lawn. My sister couldn't have a dog. And we didn't realize the importance of being a homeowner until we got late in life. We always would talk to our dad about why we don't own a home, and he talked about being house poor. Little did we know that homeownership was a great way to build equity. My sister and I ended up buying our own homes later in life, and we used that to help pay for our kids' college.

And that is a way where home ownership can lead to future success. Chase Home Lending offers personalized support, expert knowledge, and access to valuable resources, helping home buyers navigate the complexities of getting a mortgage. Their guidance ensures buyers find a financial fit and make informed decisions. Visit chase.com slash start to see how Chase can support your homeownership journey. Member FDIC, Equal Housing Opportunity. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Colagard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. Currently, the American Cancer Society recommends that if you are at average risk, you should begin screening for colon cancer at age 45.

There are an estimated 60 million adults age 45 plus in America who are not up to date with their colon cancer screening. So we need to change that by spreading the word about another option. The Kola Guard test can help you put your health first and feel more in control of your colon cancer screening process. This easy-to-use screening test is delivered right to your door and allows you to collect a sample comfortably at home on your own schedule. The sample is shipped back to the lab for testing and results are available within 8 to 10 days.

It's simple, but the best part about the Kola Guard test is that it allows you to start screening for colon cancer without all the hassle. of preparing for a colonoscopy. So you don't have to prep the day before. And by prep, you know I mean fasting and drinking all that liquid. You get to skip the stress of having to request off work, go under anesthesia, get a ride home, and all the other hassles that come with an invasive procedure. And in addition to its convenience, coliagard is also affordable.

Most insured patients find they pay nothing. out of pocket. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, let's start prioritizing our health. So, if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with the Colergard test. You can also request a Colergard prescription today at colagard.com slash podcast. The The Coligard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a coligard test if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Colerogard test is not a replacement for a colonoscopy in high-risk patients.

Coligard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Colagard is available by prescription only. The older I get, the more I respect anything that removes one unnecessary errand for my life. But that's hard when you also like things done right, right? Take grocery shopping. Look, if you're someone who can just run into the store and not test the avocados and be in and out in 10 minutes, I'm happy for you. That's not me.

With Instacart, you don't have to compromise on quality for conveniences sake. It's an app that helps you order delivery on your schedule, giving you a seamless grocery experience. What I like is that through Instacart, I can actually be successful. specific. I can choose what I want, make notes, swap if I need to, and feel like the order is being handled with care. Whether it's a regular grocery run, stuff for dinner, snacks, household essentials, whatever. Delivery through Instacart can show up in as fast as 30 minutes, which is huge when your day is as packed as mine. Instacart brings convenience, quality, and ease right to your door so you can focus on what matters most. Download the Instacart app now and get groceries just how you like.

This back-to-school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. I remember when my wife Kelly and I would be running around to a million different stores chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes, and that one specific calculator that somehow every math teacher requires. And look, I love my kids, but I do not love fighting over the last pack of highlighters in a crowded store at 7 p.m. on a Tuesday. That's why I love Amazon. Amazon has everything for back to school. Backpacks, pencils, clothes, snacks, and even those dry erase markers the teachers secretly hoard. All delivered fast right to my doorstep. One click, no stress, boom.

And the best part, I can shop from my couch. With my now 15-year-old and 13-year-old, I grab their school supply list and I'm all set. Now, instead of running around town stressed out, I get to actually spend the last days of summer with my kids. We're doing movie nights, bike rides, and even, dare I say, back-to-school fashion shows in the living room. Parents, do yourself a favor. Go to Amazon. Get your back-to-school checklist done in like five minutes while saving a few bucks. So remember, with Amazon's low back-to-school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them. Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Tori, and I'm a 41-year-old paralegal. in D.C. While I'm not able to have children, I've built a life focused on service, purpose,

and growth. From 2019 to 2020, my husband and I fostered refugee children, which deeply shaped how I view my role in the world. I'm currently considering law school while also thinking about how to mentor and uplift others in the paralegal field. My questions are, how do you decide which path will allow you to have the greatest impact, especially when you're torn between multiple good ones? How do you cope with the feeling that you're not fully living up to your potential, even when you're doing meaningful work? I get another work. That's a humdinger. That's a humdinger.

We've gotten. That's deep. It is. It's a humdinger. We've talked about this before in other conversations. But I don't know when you talk to your kids, because our kids are all in their late 20s, early 30s-ish. Seems like a lot of young people in that age group are struggling in that way. They're wondering, you know, should they be doing more?

Have they chosen the right path? I find myself having conversations with young people about having the patience to sit with where you are and find the meaning with what you're doing at the moment. You know, all impact isn't big, you know, all meaningful impact isn't big. You know, Tori is fostering refugee kids. And, you know, it sounds like there's a lot of stuff going on in Tori's life right now where she's having a lot of impact. Being a good neighbor, you know, have an impact with the people who are right in your midst. the people you have responsibility for, that is big impact, you know? And that, to me, is enough.

What is bigger than that? What is bigger than that? What is bigger than that? It feels like she's trying to figure out how to build a legacy. And I just, you know, I like what you're saying about being patient, but I think she needs some direction. And if I were to give her some direction, I would say to her, try different things, the right idea will eventually come to you. But in the meantime, you're doing

some wonderful things by fostering refugee kids. And maybe the how to is how does, maybe Tori is trying to figure out how does she explore different paths? You know, I mean, you know, a lot of kids don't have networks, a lot of young people. You know, you get into one profession and it's hard to figure out how to get to another or even explore. I know when I was, came out of law school, thought I wanted to be a lawyer, worked at a big firm, did all those things, only to find out after two years, my feeling was like, no, this ain't it. So how would I, how do I pivot? How did I figure out how to pivot? And it was something as simple as, you know, I had to think about who I might want to be. So there's some work that Tori has to do on her own. I mean, she's got to

kind of dig deep and ask herself questions. I'd like to ask this question. I'm glad I was born when I was born. To be a kid today, all this is just. Seems like there are too many choices. Not just choices, but we get choices. You got 500 channels to go once.

Yeah. It's just, I mean, I'm just. No, it's true. March 21st day of spring, 1957. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Because I don't know if you say it was simpler back then, but it was just like bananas. Yeah, yeah.

And Spike, I don't know if you find this with the students you teach, but I hear this in young athletes. I hear it in young artists too. Everybody wants to be impactful right away. And that's unrealistic. It's unrealistic. It's unrealistic. And it gets back to what you were saying. when we were talking a little bit about filmmaking is

you got to put in the W-E-R-K. That was too good. That was too good. You leave me with the stuff that's messed up. Don't do you say we want. Stayed me wrong. But what are you telling your students when they come to you

and they want to be Spike Lee right now rather than You know They don't say they want to be me You know Spillo boys gracesy But What I

What I do Is that If this is what you want to do You got to be serious about it And you may read that stuff But there's no things Overnight success Because a lot of people

They say that But they want to leave out that, you know, they were giving blood to eat, donate blood to eat. Yeah, right, right. They leave that out. They'll tell you the backstory, the dark side. The backstory. And this is even more important. I tell my students, first day of class, I hope you were here because this is what you want to do the rest of your life.

because you want to because this this makes you happy. Because if you have a job, occupation that you love, that's a home run. That's a three-pointe.

That's an 80-yard field goal. Oh, good Lord. That's of our America. Yeah. Because when you have occupation that you love, you don't need to hit the alarm four times to get up.

You do that. You get a job you hate. When I'm shooting a film, I don't have an alarm. Yeah, yeah. I know I got to be on this at 6 a.m. I know when I need to put my skinny black ass to bed, so I get sleep. Yeah. So I go wake up and do the job I love.

Like we can tell Spike loves what he does. The minute he walks in. You know. Yeah, but you ain't seen me in a nick game, no. Actually, I have. I have. It's rough. You know what?

Yeah. Will you be my guest? I will. I will. Don't waste that on her. Oh, don't even. Take me. Bitch back a little.

I would be honored to be your guest at the garden. Have me back, please. I would. Love it. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, give a last plug for the film. What do you want to tell the people? The new joint. The new joint is highest to the lowest, starring Denzel Washington, Jeffrey Wright. A cast. A-Sat, Rocky. Yeah, it is a cast. Wendell Pierce. Stream on Apple, September 5th. Apple TV Plus. Yes.

You see how the slippage doesn't happen when it comes to, you know, it's like to pull up beats and whatnot. I'd be like, Spike, and he's not going to know when the film drops. It's like, nope, not when it comes to the thing he loves. There is no slippage. I love you, Spike. Thanks for this. We'll see you back at the ranch.