IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Reach for Greatness with Steven Spielberg

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

 This week, Michelle and Craig are joined by one of the most influential filmmakers in the history of cinema, Steven Spielberg! On only his third-ever podcast appearance, the legendary filmmaker opens up about his childhood, his craft, and his new movie Disclosure Day. Plus, he shares which actor almost played the iconic role of Indiana Jones, and how the moviegoing experience can build community. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I've never really been in psychoanalysis at all in my entire life because I think the camera was my... Well, we're going to do that here. Well, I figured we were going there. I figured we were going there. Don't scare them away. We're going to do that right now, Stephen. And I don't have my security bike, which is my bolex. My bolex camera. This episode is brought to you by Chase Home Lending. Well, hello.

Hi, there's a buzz in the world. I know. It's a full house here. It's a thrum. Yeah, it is a full backpin bench. The bench is full. Everybody is like, I'm sitting in this one. I wonder why, huh? Oh, man, really truly special guests we have today,

Steven Spielberg, the one and only Steven Spielberg. And we're going to talk about his films and his movies. But the truth is, is that I've had the pleasure to get to know him as, Stephen, my friend. You know, I know his work, but I have fallen in love with him and his family because of the man that he is, the person that he is. And, you know, he is really only doing this because he loves me dearly. I know that. He does not like talking about anything but his work.

He has told me that this is only his third podcast that he's ever done. And I'm just thrilled to have him on because I love him. He is one of the best human beings that I know. I've gotten to know him through you. And I have a couple of things to share with him when he comes out. So I'm really excited that he's here too. And when we were talking a little bit before we came on, I was really touched that he was excited to be.

here and that he doesn't do this. And he seemed like he was enjoyed, at least enjoyed the pre part of it. Well, let's introduce him and get him out here. I will. And I almost feel

I shouldn't be the one introducing him. He's so revered and such a an icon. But you must introduce him. So please read the introduction. Stevens Spielberg is one of the most successful and influential filmmakers in history. He has directed major feature films since the mid-1970s and is considered the father of the modern blockbuster. Spielberg, which I realized from reading the research when he was younger, he did, people called him Spielberg and he

was, he didn't want to be called by his last name, you know, so I, I feel honored that I can call him Stephen is one of the few to achieve egot status. Just got that. Just got it. Having won Academy Emmy, Grammy, and Tony Awards across film, television, music, and theater. In 2015, President Barack Obama, who we know, presented him with the nation's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom. And in 2024, President Joe Biden awarded him with the prestigious National Medal of the Arts. So without further ado, please welcome Stephen Spielberg.

Yay! Thank you. I love you. Thanks for being here. Oh, my pleasure. We want you to feel at home because you were at home. You said you're not used to seeing me without, you know, Palm trees or casual clothes or, you know, in a swim cover-up or something.

Because it's interesting because I don't think I've ever, this is only my third, I believe, only my third podcast. And this is my first podcast with a dear friend. I've never done one with a dear friend before. Yeah. Well, we have fun here. As I said, we let the conversation flow. And I want to start by giving you a compliment of how completely cute. you look today. Oh, wow. Well, thank you. Thank you, Kate Captcha.

I'm my wife. See, this is why I bring this up because, you know, I asked you, who dressed you today? Were you allowed to? Yeah, who dressed me today? Because I'm here with you in L.A. And Kate's back in our home in New York City.

And, of course, she's not here. But of course, when I came home last night, the entire outfit for today was already hanging up in the closet with everything laid out. She's very clear. She's very clear. You direct many things, but your look, you do not. You're not allowed to touch your own look. No, no, no, no. I produced my career, but Kate produces my life.

Well, how are you feeling? I'm feeling good. I'm feeling excited. I'm feeling nervous. I'm feeling all those things that a person feels before they have a film come out. Yeah. Yeah, that's the, we talk about this, how nervous you still get when you've got a project coming out, the great Steven Spielberg.

You still feel those jitters to have your piece out there in the world? Yeah, one would think that I would, by this time in my life and career, I'd be standing on a solid cement floor, but it's still pretty liquid. Yeah. It doesn't matter how many movies I've directed or produced each one in a way, especially the directed films, each one in a way feels like an earlier work, not something with a lot of experience to back it up. So every film is a new experience for me. And are you nervous for the reception? Are you nervous for what your friends would think?

What are you nervous about? Oh, no, I'm excited for the reception. I cannot wait to unleash this film on the world. What I'm nervous about is I now have to talk about it for. for the next eight weeks before it comes out. It's the talking part. You do not like to be out in front. Well, I'll tell you why,

because it's really, really hard to make a movie. And when I finish the film, I think the film is over. But today, with the way information is collated and disseminated about stories, films, it's almost like going back to work again and starting the movie from scratch, even though the movie already is there about to speak for itself. My job now is to sort of speak up for the film without giving too much of the film away.

And that's the delicate tightrope. We all have to walk, especially if you've made a movie that's all about mystery. And you don't want to give too much of that mystery up. And you've been pretty good about this movie, keeping it under wraps. I will tell you that my husband is a bully to you when it comes to your movies. You know, I always reprimand him. but what did he, what did he, because you haven't let him see this one. No. And he's very mad about that.

Yeah, he said if he wasn't among the first to see it, he was going to watch it only on an iPhone. Which, which, he said he was only watching. Which he knows would irritate you. And he said he wouldn't watch it horizontally. He'd only watch it vertically. Oh, that's not nice. But he got to come on set for this one. This is the first set Barack ever visited.

Mm-hmm. Even though your daughter is a filmmaker, Malia. Yeah, right. So I feel bad, I scoop Malia and he came on my schedule. She will never invite us to anything that she does. She doesn't want us around her stuff. But he had a ball. Yeah, it was great.

It was great. Of course, for my cast, it was a bit of a religious experience because in walks this iconic president who comes onto our set. To me, he's a friend. To me, he's a good friend. Of course, all of us, we know each other so well. But on the set, the kids didn't know Barack except from, you know, what he's done for the world and who he represents. And they were just absolutely – and I have a very extroverted cast.

You could hear a pin drop when he walked in. They didn't know what to say. Did they know he was coming ahead of time? I didn't tell all of them. I told some of them, but not all of them. And I know you – well, we're talking about your latest project, which is disclosure. Disclosure Day. Disclosure Day.

And why don't you give us the premise of the movie, what we can expect? Well, the movie, you know, I've been sort of on this dance floor before when I was much, much younger. I made a movie in 1976, which came out in 1977 called Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Oh, that one. Oh, that one. I think I remember that. You heard about that. And that was a movie, certainly, about the first time, you know, humankind meets an advanced civilization from off our world from out there.

So, and I haven't really visited that particular subject matter for close to 50 years. Next year, it'll be 50 years when close encounters was released. But I felt, starting back in, I think, 2003, when the New York Times came out with a. story. It was a story influenced by a whistleblower that released some footage to the New York Times, and it was a story written by, I believe, Helene Cooper and Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Kean. And it was a story about what Navy pilots had photographed on their Fleer systems, their infrared systems, their forward-facing infrared systems, of a UFO, now called a U.S. UAP, which stands for unidentified anomalous phenomenon.

I kind of like unidentified flying optics better. I like UFO better than that. I don't know why it changed. I won't remember that. But in a sense, it brought it more of a serious, more of an acceptable sort of lexicon of terms to a world that even now, 50 years after close encounters, is more likely to believe that something has been happening for decade upon decade upon decades. about our world being visited. And our movie is about what would happen

if all this information was disclosed all at the same time. How would that affect everything? And the story really is about the attempt to stop any disclosure from ever taking place. And that's why a lot of this film is a wild, wild, relentless chase. Yeah, yeah. What is your, I won't say, session, but your your deep interest in what's happening beyond our planet.

I guess it's just because of my curiosity, even more than my imagination, because there's a lot of close encounters that I made up, but there's a lot in Disclosure Day that I don't really feel I needed to make up because it's out there, as they said with the X-Files, the truth is out there, and I think the truth is now here. and who was brave enough to really come forward and tell all of us that we shouldn't be afraid of living with this truth. And that curiosity more than imagination is what drove me to tackle the subject. Yeah, yeah. And you have told me how much you love this cast.

I love this cast. Everybody, Emily Blunt, and Josh O'Connor, Coleman Domingo. It's just like the hits keep hidden. Colin Firth and Eve Houston, Wyatt Russell. I was blessed with a great cast. It's officially patio season, and this year Kelly and I were committed to sprucing up our outdoor space without completely blowing our budget. The idea was to make our patio feel like an extension of the house, and Wayfair made the whole process so much easier. We got new seating, a rug,

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working with people again and again. Is that intentional? I mean, you know, you think of Tom Cruise and you think of Tom Hanks, all the Tom's and Harrison Ford.

Harrison Ford. I love working with, you know, the same actors again. But my main family really is the crew. Yeah. I've had the same composer, John Williams.

I was with him yesterday finishing up our film. Wow. And how many films have you guys done together? John and I, this is our 30th film together as director-composer. And, you know, so many people in my life I've had in my life. Tony Kushner. Tony Kushner has written four, four, five. David Kep, who wrote Disclosure Day, has written five other films for me.

Yeah. It's, you know what it does, Michelle, it creates a shorthand. And also, when you have people that really service the story, as Shakespeare said, the play is the thing. Yeah. And that's the most important thing. And when you get people that know how to service, not my needs, but the actual needs of the story. And they all do their jobs.

And they do their jobs so brilliantly. There's no reason on earth that you shouldn't want to hire those people over and over and over again. So I brought with me, Christy McCasco, has been with me for, 29 years. Christy McCosco already has five Oscar nominations for Best Picture. You know, we have a great family. Yeah. Very lucky.

Yeah. But that, you know, that comes from the head, you know. There are a lot of people doing great movies. They don't want to work with the same director again and again, you know. And that says a lot about you, Stephen. You know, I give good rap gifts. They're always going to want to work with me again. You think that's it.

I don't think that's it. I think it's a little bit more than the rap gets. Yeah. You know, I think it's the, I think it's the way that you are with people and your passion for what you're doing. And you're also a loyal person, you know? Well, you know, loyalty is important, but it's something, loyalty is something that is sort of a natural thing for me. I mean, it's a natural thing for me based on who my mom and dad were and the four kids they raised and the values that they imparted. on all of us.

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you said something about your mom and dad because the last time we were together was at Misha's Place in Martha's Vineyard. Right. And I want our audience to know that Stephen's wife, Kate, did a painting of one of the pictures of Mish and Mom and... You. Yeah, the three of us.

Right, right. And the picture was so moving. The painting was so moving that it brought us all the tears. And the last time I was with you was with mom. That's right. And she was such a huge fan of yours. And you were always so kind to her. And she felt like she had a relationship with you just over the few times that you guys had met.

Oh, yeah. And I want to thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you for telling me that. Well, we had more than a few times together. And she was, as we used to say, I'm a baby boomer, so I'm able to say this, she's a card. Yeah. And she was endlessly delightful and completely forthcoming and brutally honest in the most warm, loving way, and just adored her.

And thank you for mentioning Kate that way because no one knows until now. Oh, my gosh. that Kate painted the picture of you and Michelle and your mom. Yeah. She is a really gifted, gifted woman and, you know, the ultimate true partner. I know, and I know you know, that you couldn't do what you do without somebody as sturdy and talented. And, you know, she's your creative partner in so many ways. Oh, no, in every way, every way.

Yeah, every way. But I was watching you with my mom and I was wondering about your relationship with your mom. It must have been wonderful because given the way you treated our mom. When I grew up with my mom and dad, and this was just to find who they are. And I love them both so tenderly and equally. And I miss them equally as well. But, you know, my dad was a real dad. And my mom was a playmate.

Yeah. So when I was a little kid, I had friends, and I had my mom who was my friend. And that was the way she was with Anne Sue and Nancy, all of us. Your sisters. She really, it wasn't that she had to drop down to our level to relate to us. She kind of pulled us up to hers. And we just got a hell of a kick out of each other. And to be able to be raised by a mom who you so thoroughly enjoy hanging out with.

Yeah. That's where I think I had a very privileged and lovely childhood. What would be some of the best play moments that you had with your mom? Well, my mom, you know, when we were living in Phoenix, I was the oldest of, I'm the oldest in family of four. And we got to Phoenix, Arizona. And the first thing my mom did was I was 12 years old, 11, no, I was 10, 10 and a half years old. We got to Phoenix. And my mom went out and got a Willis Army Jeep from the Korean War.

What? And went running around town with all of us in the back of the Jeep. In those days, by the way, there were no seatbelts or airbags. Oh, yeah. No. Just bouncing around in the back. So we're in an open Jeep with no seatbelts with my mom, who was a, basically, she was a pretty fast driver. And we'd be, and jeeps have no suspension.

So we're just trying to not pop out of the car going down, you know, Black Canyon Highway going 55 miles an hour. And with my mom wearing sort of a kind of a cowboy head. hat and a serapi. Wow. So my mom, my mom had a personality that stood out. Wow. And did that, you know, sometimes that can make a kid feel uncomfortable that you have a mom that's kind of out there, kooky. How did you feel growing up? That was great because all my friends just loved hanging out with her because once again, she was part of my peer group. Yeah. And when I was 10 years old, she was part of our peer group. When I was 16 and driving, She was part of that beer group.

When I was, you know, going to college, 18, 19 years old, she was part of that peer group. And my mom just really was, I think we dressed to her as opposed to her dressing down to us. I think we somehow, we always were. And I admired my mom's style, but I could never myself be that kind of outrageous. Yeah, out there.

Yeah, yeah. She cornered that market. Yeah. What role do you think she played in, you starting picking up, but camera. I mean, was that part of that imagination? Her free-spirited nature,

did that impact your decision to make movies? Because you were making movies so young, you know? I think it, I certainly did. It was sort of my dad's camera that I borrowed, the 8mm Kodak camera I borrowed to start making movies. And my movies were just movies of our camping trips. Because I could hold the camera steadier, my dad did. He didn't have so much patience

with the camera and I did. And it kind of started that way. So in a way, even though in the Fableman's, there's a scene where Mitzie, my mom, her name was Leah, Lee. She gives the character Sammy a camera. In fact,

it was my dad in real life that gave me the camera for the first time. So my dad was pretty instrumental in getting me equipped with something that I could sort of vent everything I was feeling and seeing and being scared of when something scared me, I went off and made a little 8mm movie so I could frighten other people.

It was kind of like, well, that something scared me. I'm going to make a movie about what scared me so I can scare others. And it was a real, I mean, I've never really been in psychoanalysis at all in my entire life because I think the camera was my... Well, we're going to do that here. Well, I figured we were going there. We got about a night. I figured we were going there.

Don't scare them away. We're going to do that right now, Steve. And I don't have my security blanket, which is my bolex, my bolex camera. But you still do that. I mean, this is a beautiful thing. Your gift to us when we're all together in a group, you mean, you're not shy. You know, you're talkative. But when there's a moment, you're filming it.

You know, you pull out your phone and you're sort of like the elf on the shelf. Just kind of. And then you give that gift back to us. You know, at the end of our time together. It's like, oh, Stephen was back there, and he was watching that, and he captured that. And, you know, what is that, what's that about in your personality where that's your comfort spot? I think from my earliest memories of having a camera in my hand, that the great thing about seeing, let's say, the home movies of, I was always aware of time passing. Even when I was like 10, 11 years old, and I was making a movie,

my dad catching a trout and cleaning the fish and then having eggs and fish for breakfast in the White Mountains of Arizona, I would look at that even as a kid to say, I'm marking time. I'm marking this moment. And I'm because someday I'm going to look back on it. If I don't have this, if I don't have this antiquity, I may not remember it.

And I want to be able to remember all the good times and all the bad times. And so I just started being a kind of videographer of our family. Took all the home movies. And then when I was on my own in college, I was taking 8mm movies of my friends in school. And then when I got into the movie business, I continued to take videos when film, you know,

turned out and videos became popular. I switched my equipment. And I've always sort of been a little philosophical. I'm very nostalgic. I've always been very much. nostalgic. So you talk about getting a camera and then trying to make films that affected you, so something scared you, so you made something scary.

What kind of movies were you watching as a kid that sort of piqued your interest in the whole vocation? Well, when I was a kid growing up, there were two ways to see movies. one, your parents had to drive you to a movie theater. So all the movies I saw were not by choice. They were, the films my mom and dad thought was appropriate for them

to take me and maybe Anne and when Sue got old enough and later Nancy to accompany them to the movies. So all the movies we saw were pretty sophisticated films. I love musicals because my parents love musicals and so we went to the movie theater to watch

a big kind of you know, Gene Kelly Frank Sinatra, some kind of a music. So that was the other thing. The other access I had to stories being told to me was on television because we had movies that were shown on television in the 50s called The Late Show. Yeah, yeah.

And so these were movies that came out in the 1940s and some of them in the 50s. And we didn't have color television. So even a color movie you saw in black and white, but it didn't matter because those movies I had more access to than theatrical films. and it's only when I started making money on a paper route or whitewashing citrus trees

as I used to do to raise money to make my 8mm movies and to buy film and processing. I would be able to go out and on my own and see movies on my own. And that's when I became pretty independent and could make my own choices. And so the movies were eclectic. All the films I was interested in. I love westerns.

I saw the searches in a movie theater in New Jersey in 1957, I think it was when I was, I was like 9, 10 years old. You know, I love science fiction. I was crazy about science fiction. I remember seeing a movie that George Powell made called Destination Moon. Oh, yeah. I saw it in a revival house because it had already played out in theaters.

It was being shown years after its initial release, and I went to a theater and saw it for the first time. And it was about humanity's first trip to the moon. And it was crazy. And I'll never forget that film. And I love the music. The music sounded like the kind of classical music my dad and mom would play like Ray von Williams or Bartok or Shostakovich. And suddenly the score of this movie sounded like classical music.

It was a composer named Lath Stevens. And it was the very first soundtrack album I ever purchased and played it until I wore the record out. So that sort of all started with, I think, the Western and the science fiction film. Yeah, yeah. And music for you has always been, the soundtrack has always been something. We've talked about this before. You were very savant-like when it comes to compositions. It's like, name that composition in one note and Stephen can get it.

Did that come from your mom, her love of music? It did. It did because I was raised with, you know, basically my mom, was a keyboard artist, and she pretty much performed Schumann, Schubert, you know, Bach, Brahms, you know, Chopin. And that was the music of my childhood. That's what I grew up with. But my private life, I grew up with the music of, you know, Eric Wolfgang Korngold, Max Steiner,

Franz Wachshman, you know, so many of the, you know, Dimitri Tiamkin and Miklis Rocha, these are the great, most of them, immigrants that came to America to write music, and they would have preferred to write concert pieces, symphonic pieces, or even opera, but they couldn't get jobs doing that, so they started to write music for movies. Max Steiner wrote the score for some of the greatest films,

including, you know, the Western I love so much called The Searchers. And so when my mom was doing forehand with a friend in the living room, I'd be in my bedroom with my record player playing motion picture soundtracks. And every time I heard a movie score, it would make me want to tell a story and write it down on paper. Oh, wow. And storytelling, you know, can you talk a bit about your process for how you choose a story and win? I mean, your stories range from extraterrestrial to the Holocaust to World Wars. you cover it all.

What makes you decide to be interested in a story? And when are you ready to tell it? Because even the Fableman's, I mean, you didn't touch your life. You know, you sort of stayed away from your biography, your entire career. And then all of a sudden, the Fableman's comes out, which, by the way, is one of my favorite films of you. I've told you this before. Thank you, Michelle. Well, the Fableman's was kind of my reaction to the passing of my parents.

I would have told the story while they were alive, but I was a little too nervous to let out too much of that part of my personal life. It wasn't just a metaphor. I was okay about taking my personal life and creating metaphor, but to directly recount things that happened and occurred in our lives and the trauma of the divorce that we all had to experience and live through and recover from, by the way. That was something I wasn't really willing to do.

But when I lost my mom and dad, I kind of made the movie in memory of them, but also in a way, trying to get them back a little bit, back into my life. So I could run the movie and actually, because Michelle Williams became my mom, like I couldn't imagine anybody becoming. I didn't think it was possible.

But Michelle, based on some home videos that I showed her and some 8-millimeter sound movies of my mom, Michelle had some kind of a, I guess, I guess you would call it a transcendental, you know, transference where she, either my mom came to her, and I think my mom did come to her on the movie, but she was her. And that was remarkable, as, you know, as was Paul Dana, was my dad. Yeah, and you shared that moment. You were trying to keep it together to make sure, because you said the cast and crew, they were worried about you through the process. They wanted to make sure that you were okay, and you were trying to settle them down, and then what happened when you came on set? What happened was I told them early on, I said, look, I've gotten all my tears out of the way with Tony Kushner.

Tony wrote this as my writing partner. We wrote this very quickly, and Tony sort of got a lot of this out of me because he himself has some therapeutic skills that opened me up to allow me to be brave enough to put some of this down on paper with him. but I told everybody and I got all my tears out writing the script I was going to be fine and we got to the set of the very first day and I had seen some of the wardrobe tests

with the actors at the studio months before but suddenly there's the set and the set happens to be the house I grew up and that Rick Carter, the production designer, recreated based on all the home movies and home videos I had taken of that house and he went on eBay

and he found things in my bedroom that I forgot were in my bedroom. And he put them in the set of my bedroom, my childhood bedroom. And I walked onto that set and suddenly I'm home. I'm back in Phoenix and I'm home. You can't go home again if you make a movie. Only if you make a movie. And then Christy said the cast is coming out for the first rehearsal. And Paul Dano came around the corner and Michelle Williams came around the corner. And what I really saw was my mom and dad back to life. And back together. And back together. And back together again coming toward me.

And I completely went back on my word and I lost it. And they were great. Michelle hugged me in the front. And Paul came around the back and he hugged me around back. And we're in a bit of a Stephen sandwich. And they kept me, they supported me through the whole process. And I needed the support. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. That's amazing. That's just amazing. And I heard you talk about in other interviews or I read it somewhere doing the research that the thing that you were most worried about was how your sisters felt about this. Can you talk about the pressure of that? Because I can't even imagine doing something and worrying about her. I mean, I can imagine it. Well, you're telling everybody's story.

Yes. But I'm not everybody whose story was told. I'm only me. And I could only tell my story and assume I was getting their stories right. So the first thing I did was send them all the screenplay. And I wanted them to give me notes, tell me where I made it up, tell me what was not accurate, tell me, and they were great. And they had some adjustments and some notes to give me about their characters,

about things that I didn't even know they were doing at the time. These events were taking place, which helped the movie. And then they came onto the set from time to time, not all the time, but once a week they come onto the set to visit and to watch, and to cry and to commune with me. And the biggest nervous thing was when I showed them the film for the first time. And I showed it to Nancy and Sue in New York City and Anne in Los Angeles. And the first screening was for my two sisters who were closer to where I was in New York.

And that was hard. That was hard because it was less about the film and more about what it felt like for them to be taken back in time, not reminded of something, but being given an experience that was very lifelike for them and brought everything up. All the anti-Semitism we experienced growing up, all of the tumult between my mom and my dad,

the affair my mom had with my dad's best friend and business partner that eventually caused their marriage to dissolve. And it was really traumatizing to be in a room with them and experience them experiencing our lives together. Wow. Did it feel healing at all? It did. Eventually.

Yeah. Not at first because at first all the old swords start to hemorrhage a little bit. And then after a while, it's completely healing. Yeah. Yeah. So what made it right to do that? You said to, so it just felt like you were ready for that with Fableman's. Yeah.

I was ready to bring mom and dad back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. And other stories that you decide to tell and win, what's your, you know, is it? It depends because I'm a history buff. I love history. You know, I didn't do good in high school. The only thing I got a good grade in was history.

And I love reading biographies. And so a lot of my films are historically, you know, anchored the Holocaust, World War II. Certainly the Amistad and the Amistad Africans, you know, the story about Lincoln, you know, and the passage of the 13th Amendment. These are films that are very close to my heart because the history is close to me. And so I just love telling stories that actually happened and trying to get it as right as possible. My dad fought in the Second World War. He was with the 490th Bomb Squadron called the Burma Bridgebusters

stationed in Karachi and places in Burma. And my dad was eventually in charge of all the ground-to-air communication when all these B-25s and cargo planes were flying the hump, which was a very dangerous sortie to fly. My dad was coordinating all of these flights. And so I heard stories as a child about two subjects. The Shoah, which they call the Great Murders, the Holocaust. And stories about World War II.

So I had always been looking for a war movie to make. And I had seen a lot of war movies on television growing up. But they were all sort of war movies that are pretty much filled with true. tropes, you know, and yet you think those tropes are accurate until you actually meet the people that fought in that war. And when Stephen Ambrose wrote his book, D-Day and the other book Citizen Soldier and introduced me to some of the veterans that landed on Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944, I suddenly realized that, oh my God, we need to tell the story of what really happened with no tropes, or a few tropes as we could possibly include.

I've lived in quite a few major cities over the years, and I've always loved how. much each one changed whenever a big event came to town. All of a sudden, Chicago would be filled with music lovers or film aficionados or, of course, people dying to see the Cubs win. And in those moments, it can suddenly be quite difficult for visitors to find a place to stay, which is where Airbnb comes in, offering travelers an option with a bit more local charm. So if you've got some travel coming up during a big happening like a music festival or a big sporting event, consider listing your place on Airbnb. It's an excellent way to be part of your city's experience. You're helping someone enjoy the weekend, the game, the whole vibe of your neighborhood,

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What's been the hardest location? I asked maybe leading a little bit, but the first time you came to visit us, it was in Martha's Vineyard. And you hadn't been back to Martha's

Vineyard since filming Jaws because you said that you just couldn't face going back to that island because of the experience. Can you talk a bit about that? Actually, I had gone. You were like when I saw you all in the vineyard, that was maybe my fourth trip back.

Okay. But I didn't go back for years and years and years after making jobs because that was the toughest location of my career. I mean, we were in the 12 miles out to sea past the Cape Hogue lighthouse, and it's tough making a movie on the water, and I won't go through all that. Just around the documentary. entry Jaws at 50.

Yeah. It'll save me a half an hour of telling you on a podcast. Just go watch Jaws at 50. You'll see how hard it was. And thanks for the plug. Needless to say, it was very, very, it was almost an impossible mission, a mission impossible. And if I probably knew how hard it was going to be, I might not have done the movie if somebody had come out and told me by looking at a crystal ball.

And instead of seeing Annie M in the ball saying, Dorothy, where are you? Instead of seeing that, you're saying everybody throwing up over the side of the boat and the ship in six foot waves and not getting our shots and the shark falling apart and coming out of the water tail first when it's attacking. You know, things like that.

You probably, I probably might have had second thoughts about it. But it's a movie that also, because of what followed, because of the film was so successful, it gave me freedom to make close encounters. So I never had to really go to a studio again and say, will you let me direct this movie because the studios after draws were coming to me, as they do to any successful filmmaker to say, what do you want to make the phone book?

We'll finance the phone book. And so it gave me a lot of freedom after that. And Meach said she just watched Saving Private Ryan. I just recently re-watched Sugar Land Express. Oh, that was one of my best experiences. It was my first movie. I know. Can you talk about that whole process?

Because I had, so I saw it a long time ago, and then I watched it again. I have it. And then I want to talk to you about movies that get people to rewatch all the over and over again. But that's another question. But I was watching Sugar Land Express, and the way you make the... antagonists feel like a protagonist is my favorite thing in that movie. I was rooting for them the whole way

and like everybody was, but can you talk about making that? And you talk about extras. How many police cars were in that movie? Oh, my God, there were like 50 or something. There were a lot of police cars. It felt like more, yeah. I don't remember. I just know that I was making TV.

I had made Duel, which sort of was considered my first feature because it was released in theaters internationally, not domestically. It was on ABC movie of the week here in this country, but overseas it was released theatrically. So most people that do the filmographies sort of list that as my first film,

but Sugarlight was my first real theatrical American film. And I got the idea from reading a newspaper that came to my house when I was living in an apartment off Lancasham Avenue and right across from Universal Studios. And it was a newspaper called The Citizen News, and there was a story about a Texas couple.

They were trying to get their baby back from foster care. And the guy was in pre-release, in a pre-release farm. And they basically kidnapped a highway patrol officer and got in, or they stole a car. And they led this riotous chase, a caravan of police cars, until a very tragic ending occurred. And I went to my friends, Halbarwood, Matthew Robbins, who were friends who I was, who were the guys that introduced me to George Lucas in the 60s. And they wrote a brilliant script based on the story that I sketched out. And I went and tried to sell it in the studio like the script.

And they said, if you can get a movie star, we'll make this movie and let you direct it. And then I went through the business of being said no to by many movie stars. Many, many people turned me down. But the one person who didn't say no was Goldie Hawn. And Goldie Haan loved the script, loved the character. of Lou Jean Poplin. Uh-huh. And she said yes.

And had she said yes, that would not have been made that movie. She got that movie made. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we were talking the other day about casting, right? And you said something like, you know, the right, the right cast member always kind of shows up because there's always, there's the timing issue, you know. You have an idea.

You have somebody that you. you write for, you think it's that, that actor, and then they're not available. That's right. So you, what, do you remember we talked about this? I do. And I think one of the things I was saying is the actor you thought you wanted, who was the only actor you could imagine playing that role, was not the actor you eventually found out you were wrong about in the first place

because the person you wound up was the only person destined to play that character. Right. And I really truly believe that because I've had many experiences with actors saying no to me, but the person that eventually said, yes, I cannot imagine anybody else playing that role. And I just think that's a little bit of determinism versus free will. We can get into those conversations. I'm not sure we should. But that's the whole thing where I sometimes believe that there are strings connecting everything. And the strings have already been laid out before we get to that juncture right in the road where we think we're making a

decision when, in fact, the decision's already been made for. What's been the biggest casting karma that happened that you can remember? Oh, my, there's been, there's been a number of them. Harrison Ford was, did you think of him? Thank you, Chris. Okay, Craig. So was Harrison, he wasn't the first? What happened was George and I had interviewed a lot of people to play Indiana Jones.

And we tested them. And they came to George's, he had a small office in Los Angeles across, Universal, and we tested a lot of actresses for Marion Raven, and a lot of actors, especially for Indiana Jones. That was going to be whether we made the movie or not. And we both discovered and decided that Tom Selleck should play Indiana Jones. He came in, and he read for the part. No disc to Tom Selleck, but just can't.

Oh, he was good. His test was good. I loved it. Would he have had a mustache? No, he wouldn't have. I wouldn't have let him have a mustache. Maybe if the films were as successful. he could have demanded the mustache later, and then George and I would have given it either time.

But there's where the strings of destiny didn't cross with Tom. We wanted Tom. We gave Tom the part. And then he had, which we didn't realize, an outstanding contract with CBS Network, to do Magnum PI. And Bob Daly, a very close friend of mine, but I didn't know Bob at the time,

when they heard we wanted Tom, they immediately put Magnum P.I. into production, preempting Tom from being in Indiana Jones. And now Tom is mad at everyone. Tom's a great guy. I adore him. And so what happened was George at the same time asked me to come look at a rough cut of the second Star Wars movie Empire Strikes Back. So I went up to Northern California, went to the screening room, sat in a room, saw Empire Strikes Back, which I adored. Yeah.

And when the screening was over, we were talking about the movie with about 30 or 40 people. And I pulled George aside. And I said, George, what about that guy who plays Han Solo to play Indiana Jones? And George looked at me funny and said, well, he's Hans Solo. I said, I know, but, but, you know, John Wayne might have been in the same Western forever, but he played different characters. I said, you know, he could do more than one role. And George said, okay, but I got my mind another thing. He was making, he was working with Irvin Kershner to make this movie.

So about a week later, he called me up and said, I've sent the script to Harrison. So on his own, he had a few days to think about it without telling me, he sends the script to Harrison. And Harrison reads the script and he wants to do it. That was how it all began. Man. Yes. Man, oh man. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card.

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based on creditworthiness. Rates as of January 1st, 2026, existing customers can view their variable APR in the wallet app or at card. apple.com. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch, terms and more at apple card.com. I love having a well-balanced, satisfying snack on hand, but with protein bars, it can sometimes be a trade-off. If it tastes good, you flip it over to the back, and there's a whole paragraph of ingredients

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ingredients or fillers. So check out any of Aloa's protein bars. Like my personal fave, the pa Akai. It's got rich chocolate, macadamia nuts, and a sprinkle of sea salt. Hmm, too good. Grab one at your local grocery store. or head to Aloha.com. I wanted to ask you about working with kids. I mean, you know, probably because of your childhood. You know, there's always, you know, a child and innocent in the midst of it all who's trying to work their way through.

But that means that, you know, you have worked with a long list of child actors throughout your career. And, you know, I watched War the World's, a couple of weeks ago. And Dakota Fanning in that movie, I mean, she was, she helped to make that movie, you know? And I just keep wondering with like a Drew Baramoid.

They're so little. You know, how do you get these amazing performances consistently out of these little people? Well, a child actor is like an adult actor without all the bad habits. Now you sound like Marion Roberts. Now you sound like my mom. She's with me now, probably.

She's gone from you to you to me now. Yeah. You know, there is such an innocence and there is such an ability, and especially if you don't talk down to kids. You don't talk down to children who are acting in your movie, but you treat them the way my mom raised me and my three sisters. she treated us like peers. My mom is more a peer than a parent.

And I want to be a peer to a young person, not a parent slash director to that young person. You treat them like little adults. And you let them tell you what they'd like to do in a real life situation. Because young people are able to imagine better than older veteran actors. They're able to really teleport themselves into a real situation, even though it's all made up by writers and the lighting and the special effects. To them it's reality. And sometimes they've got the best ideas of where to take their little personalities. And so I've just been really open with young actors,

and I rely on them to help form their own characters without me giving a lot of direction. With Drew Baramore, I took some of her improvisations because she would just talk to E.T. all time. She'd stand around as a six-year-old talking to the E.T. when he wasn't being operated by the puppeteers, and she'd just be talking to them and telling E.T. about her punk band that she had and the rock and rock and roll tour she wanted to be on when the movie was over and her other aspirations. And she'd make up stuff that I would use in the movie.

You know, there was a scene around a dinner table where Elliot and Michael are kind of not getting along. And Michael's teasing Elliot about because Elliot says, I really saw this creature. He was really in the woodshed up on. behind the house and and Michael says, well, maybe it was alligators in the sores. And I saw that every time he said it in the rehearsal, Drew was mouthing, Alligators in the So after a while, I said, Drew, everything he says, just repeat what he says, because you know you want to do that, don't you?

You're doing it right now. So every time she repeated what Michael was saying, that's true. And you kept that in. I kept all that stuff there. She walked over to E.T. one day in a scene, and she said, I don't like his feet. And she meant it. And so I left that in the movie. So with young people sometimes,

and also with actors, with adult actors, you let them help you find their characters because we can't do it all. I'm not an actor. I know what I think I want. But when an actor lands on something, it convinces me that, oh, I want that instead. You got to collaborate.

It's a business, this, it's a collaborative medium. Well, that gets us to the industry. And we've talked about this a lot. I mean, you're, you know, we said earlier, Barack threatened to watch your movie on his iPhone. I know you have deep beliefs about what movies mean, what they should be. You believe in theaters. You believe in the entire experience. Yet the industry feels like it's moving slowly away from that view of movies.

what are your thoughts and feelings on this? What do you think the industry is going? Well, I think certainly the industry, I was born in the age of TV. So when I was born television sets were being sold for the first time, I was born at the end of 46. There were going to be a lot of listeners going, wow.

Oh, yeah, long time ago. Long time ago. But there were a lot of, you know, Solvania and GE, black and white TV sets were being made then. And so I was the first, my, the greatest, not too, great it. My dad was the greatest generation. We're the baby boomers. And we were born in front of a black and white television screen.

Yet, we went out to the movies because they were in color. And the screens were super duper big. And we got it. And it was exciting and it's kind of dangerous. You go to a room and you sit in the dark and you're watching a movie. And I fell in love with movies. not by watching movies on television. I fell in love with the movies by being at the movies.

The old term movie going. That was something that we just took for granted. And then, but there's always been this competition, this kind of, I guess you called a sport between those that produce television series and those that make motion pictures. And then along came something back in the 60s. called Saturday Night at the Movies.

Oh, yeah. And they would take recent movies that had only been out of circulation maybe five to seven years and they put them on TV. And the networks are trying to lure people away from weekend

going to the movies on weekends, which are big. You know, Friday and Saturday are the biggest movie days or movie nights. So they were already starting to chip away at moviegoers

by putting on Saturday night at the movies. which was successful, got a lot of ratings points. Men, people were not watching movies. They were watching some old film on television because it was unique to be sold a semi-curend film to be viewed in your homes. And all of a sudden, there was competition for filling seats.

The seats that I was interested in watching movies at were seats in the mezzanine or the orchestra or even the balcony. That's where I wanted to watch my movies, not sitting on the divan or in the beanbag or in bed. But I wanted to go out, the adventures and movie going. And that was something that was very important. And my generation grew up that way, and my generation loves it. But my kids have it the opposite view. My kids want the convenience of being able to see a story being told on any platform that's available, including an iPhone.

They don't care. But when a certain movie does come out, where the iPhone experience or the streaming experience is denied to them because the studios believe this film should be seen in movie theaters. And when these studios are brave enough to say, we're not going to go back to the three-week or 17-day window like Donald Langley at Universal just did, all Universal films now have a 45-day window before they go on, you know,

the pay channels. and eventually to their streaming platform. And this is very, very important that studios give an audience an opportunity to find these films. Not by saying it's only going to be in a theater for two weeks because then we get to qualify for awards later in the year,

but it's going to be in a theater as long as people attend that movie. And that's the battle we're fighting. And COVID really hurt us, really hurt movie going because people who couldn't go out to the movies got very accustomed to watching movies at home. And the studios

started taking movies away from their release dates and putting them directly on HBO or directly on, you know, pay-per-view. How does that affect the viewers, do you think? Do you think we're missing out on something, the experience of watching something as a community? When you watch a movie at home, there's nothing wrong with it. I watch a lot of movies at home, but it's not an event to stay home and watch a movie in your living room or in your family room and your bedroom. It's an event to make a night of it or a day of it, an afternoon of it,

even a morning of it and go out to the movies. That's an event. And it makes it more exciting. And when you see a movie in a theater, you're also being surrounded by people who are strangers. And there are people in that theater that you know do not believe what you believe. You know, there are people in that theater who actually believe in the opposite of You are core beliefs about democracy, about this country, about the world, about our needs, about what we need. But in a movie theater, everybody is tuned in to the story being told to them from the screen.

And for one moment, we are in communion and we are in agreement and we are a community. We're a community of strangers watching something that makes us laugh and cry and sing out and want to share those feelings. And often, you go into a lobby and you're still buzzing. about the movie and you talk to strangers. You're not talking about the stuff that divides you. You're talking about what just united you. And that is the great thing that movies build community. And we need community now more than ever.

Desperately do. And movies can do that if studios will continue to allow movies to play for longer periods of time before they go on television. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I miss? What's that? I was thinking about when you're talking about community and going to the movies

because we didn't go to the movies like you did. We went to the drive-in because it was more economical. Me too. Wasn't that great? I love Arizona. Arizona's full of drive-ins. Oh, my God. I was hoping that with COVID drive-ins would make a comeback.

Like ventriloquisms? Yes, like ventriloquism. This is a big joke because I think ventriloquism is an underutilized art form. And now I haven't seen. see Steven Spielberg laugh this hard in all of the times that we have been together. He has a ventriloquist dummy that the team gave him. They gave his name is Woodrow. His name is Woodrow.

And I'm going to be practicing with him because I'm going to learn how to be a ventriloquist. I'm not too old. Okay. I'm still, I'll video it. I'm going to hold you to it. So how do you balance, you know, all that you have to be to make these films. and the, you know, the level of yourself that you have to pour into each project and not just the project as a whole, but the cast and the kids and the, with your real life. Yeah, yeah. Because you got a big real life. You all got a bunch of kids. Seven kids, six grandkids.

It's a lot. It's a lot. It requires a big boat. Well, they keep me relevant. I'll tell you. They keep me current to the times, my kids do. Yeah. How, what have been some of the challenges for you as a dad, being you? Getting home for dinner. Yeah.

You know, one of the biggest challenges is just running out of excuses why I can't get home for dinner because it's my loss. It's their loss, but it's also my loss. When we formed DreamWorks, Kate said the only way I'm really going to say this is okay with me is if you get home every night by six, 5.45 is better and have dinner with the family. And don't go to work at 6 or 7. Unless you're shooting, you can get up at 5.30, which we usually do.

When you're running a studio, you've got to have like a 9 to 5 job. And I made that a condition of my involvement with David and Jeffrey. And I said, I'm not doing this company unless this for me is going to be a 9 to 5 job because it's going to be a real time drain for me. And I need to be with my family. They understand and can understand when I'm making a movie, that goes out the window.

I don't have control over that schedule anymore. So what Kate did was take all the kids whenever I went abroad to make a film and we live abroad. We lived in Hungary for four months making Munich. We lived five months in Krak off Poland making Schindler's List. We lived in London making saving private Ryan and Ireland. And with all the kids went to school there. They were homeschooled there. And then at the end of the movie, they'd all get back to their schools in Los Angeles.

And so if Kate hadn't been, hadn't agreed to a mobile home life while I was in the physical, with the whole family. And it wasn't, yours weren't spread out. I mean, they sort of were and then they weren't. Yes. Because she had a bunch of little kids in diapers doing this stuff. Look, McKell & Destry, only eight months apart, you know. I mean, it's crazy. And it wasn't diapers, and it was really hard for her, and it was not easy for her.

And I'm off doing what I love. And she's home doing what she loves too, but kind of wishes I was there doing it with her. That's the thing, that's the compromise we make. Look, I read your book and Barack's book, so I know all about what it was like for eight years as first lady in that White House. It's hard. Yeah. Is there an idea or a movie that you'd still like to make that you haven't made yet? I really, and I've said this ad nauseum, I want to make a western.

I've never really made a Western since I was in night. I made it an 8mm and there's a little Western I shot in, but I want to make a Western. And I love them. I've seen them all and I'm working on one right now. I don't know when it's going to go, but I have I have something going right now. Nice. Is it John Wayne like? Is it Giant, which you introduced me to?

Oh, I love. I showed you Giant for the first time. I'm surprised you got her to watch something that old. That's good. I loved it. I'm glad. You loved it. You loved it.

At first I was like, okay, we're watching Giant, you know. But it was great. It was really great. Because it stands the test of time. It sure does. As old George Stevens films do. But the Western, the premise, it hasn't been decided yet. So it is just not going to be filled with Western tropes and stereotypes.

It's not going to be that at all. It's got to be something new. I've seen so many Westerns, and, you know, the great thing about the Western genre, it was supplanted by science fiction. So when Stanley Kubrick made 2001 a Space Odyssey, that was really the death of the Western. Really? Yeah, that was the turning point. That was the turning point.

The Western went away, stayed on television for a number of years. But when it left movie theaters, it started coming out on television. Yeah, right. Raw high. That's what I was. You know, and the riflemen, you know, and I mean, high chaparral, I mean, the Virginian, one after the other. And that, when science fiction supplanted the Western,

so every time I see a Marvel movie or I see a fantasy film, I say, and there's a dearth of that, I mean, there's a plethora of that right now, everywhere. When I see those series, those brands, those big IPs, I say, well, that's where the Western went. It basically, dinosaurs turned into birds, and Westerns turned into a supery, and fantasy films.

And that's where we're at right now. So I kind of want to make a Western that isn't a bird, but is something a little different. A bird of a different feather. Not quite sure what that is yet, but I'm working with a really good partner on this right now trying to concoct one.

Well... Oh, the listener question, we better... Oh, yeah, but we've got to leave a little time for the listener question. One of the things on IMO we like to do, Stephen, is help out. people and give some good advice. So we take questions from our listener viewers. And this one's from Anna, who's in Colorado.

Dear Michelle and Craig, I'm 24 years old, and I am a struggling, aspiring writer in the entertainment industry. I have a low-paying job that pays my rent, but not much else. I worked hard to go to film school and try to get a foot in. I'm from a small town and have no connection, so I try to make all of the right choices. But I haven't gone anywhere. It feels like every door slam shut before I can even knock. There's nothing I've wanted more than to be a famous writer, but I don't have the means to take the financial risk to support those dreams. I'm also incredibly worried that AI will take over the entry-level positions

that could help me get my foot in the door, or will mean that fewer shows and films will all get made, period. It feels like the latter was pulled up before my generation could make it to the party. At what point do I stop dreaming and pivot career pass or even career dreams? Thanks. Wow. Well, Anna, here's the thing. The big test for you is will you persevere? That's the key word is perseverance, not ever giving up, continuing to do what has not worked for you so far, continuing to write, keep writing. And the other thing you can do, which is great, is you can post some of your ideas. You can go on Instagram, you can go on YouTube, you can post some of your things. If you're a writer, you're not talking about being a director, but you may take something you've written in short form,

find somebody you went to school with who wants to be a director, and put a little film together and use your device. Use your camera on your phone. Take advantage of the technology. Take advantage of the technology and to get your voice. Because where there's a, it's a terrible cliche to say this, but where there is a will, there's a way. And where there is a passion, there is an even better way.

And if you have that passion through perseverance, you'll get to where you need to be. Yeah. Yeah. What about the economic piece, too? I mean, the starving writer, the starving artist. It's, you know, expensive to be in this town, L.A. Or to be in New York or to be where the industry is. Well, you have to hold a job that's going to, you know, meet your immediate needs.

And especially you have a family. You have a responsibility. to doing the work that's going to provide for your family. But at the same time, your passion can still be on that second track. We talked about the different compartmentalize. You can have it all, but you have to be able to have one to be able just to subsist, and then while you're working on the other, the impossible dream. Yeah.

I've had this conversation with my eldest daughter, Stephen, as you know, is an aspiring director. filmmaker. And in these times, she has wondered aloud, you know, when there's so much going on in the world, so many problems that we face, whether it's the environment or saving our democracy, you know, sometimes she feels like, you know, should I be writing stories and, you know, thinking about making movies? I mean, should I be out on protest line? Should I be doing more? is this the same thing, is this the right field? The thing I tell her is, oh my God, these are the times that we need stories. You know, we need storytellers. And we need storytellers of all backgrounds. So what I would say to Anna is definitely don't give up. Because we can't seed the arena to the wealthy few who can afford to persevere. Because we need all these. perspectives. You know, I mean, I tell my daughter, we need to hear from young black writers, you know. So it's like,

you know, the voices have to be diverse or else we lose the full story. We don't get the full truth if we're only hearing one person's perspective. And as a woman, as a young woman in this art, in this art form, it's like I desperately want Anna to to stay the course. The one thing I like when you talk to young people about careers, first of all, you went to film school. Oh, did you? No, I didn't go. I didn't.

I tried to go to film school, but USC wouldn't let me end. Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to bring that up, Stephen. My grades were so bad for making my little 8-millimeter or 16-millimeter movies that I got accepted at Long Beach. I was only there for two years, but I wanted to go to SC. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. But you tell young people, or what you've shown in your career is that you just love making stuff. And it was like you weren't precious or particular about what you made. Can you talk a bit about that? You know, I started by writing as well. Writing is one of the best ways to break into the business. One of the hardest things to do is get somebody to read what you've written. Because there's all kinds of, you know, there's all kinds of lawsuits called copy.

write infringement and producers say, well, if it's not registered, it doesn't come from an agent that I know I can't read it, it's unsolicited material. And that's the struggle that young writers have in getting their stuff read. But the thing that I did, I remember watching TV and watching an episode of combat

and writing my own combat episode and sending it to Norman Felton, who was the producer of combat. And he was so impressed by the script, he actually read it. He probably shouldn't have. But he read the script, and he had me come into his office,

and I got a chance to meet this big producer of a television series. And he told me that he took one look at me. I looked like I was 13 when I was maybe 18, 19. He said, well, we're not going to buy this, but it's really really well written and keep writing. He just gave me about a five-minute, a really good pep talk, which was wonderful of him. But most of the scripts that I wrote on spec were television shows.

I wrote two Mission Impossible episodes because I love Mission Impossible. I'm not Mission Impossible. I'm sorry, the Man for Mono. I wrote two episodes. Oh, I watched that. I love that. I love that series. Napoleon Solo.

Yeah, Ilya Kriyakin. Oh, my God. David McCallum. I wanted to be in Uncle. When I was younger, I wanted to be in that group. And I wanted to be Robert Vaughn. But I also wrote that. So sometimes it may seem futile to write something you're not going to sell,

but that's the greatest way to understand how. to structure a story. First of all, if you want to structure a story, it's got to be about something. So your first stop is, what do I want to say? What in this world do I want to say that somebody might listen to? Do I have anything to say? And if I have something to say, it's important to me, maybe I can say it on paper first. You can't write anything until you have something to say. It doesn't have to be the word according to blank, blank, blank, it simply has to be important to you. And then you become somebody that comes from a place of passion, a place of a place of, because you want to communicate something that's important to you.

How are you thinking about AI in this? I mean, you've done every... I made a movie called AI a while ago. I watched that last month. That was, I hadn't seen AI before. I mean, it's like how, what crystal ball do you have, Stephen? What scary crystal ball are you living in? I mean, how do you foresee this stuff?

Well, I'm kind of withholding judgment on AI until I see really how it is being used. I think it's even being used more frequently and better currently. I'm reading in China. The China is ahead of where we are right now in its use of AI. But how it's been used, I'm not certain about that.

But what I do know about AI is that I'm sure it's a tool that can create and find solutions to medical issues. Yeah. You know, in finding solutions to how to put together a curriculum and how to get young people really more stimulated and interested in the lessons that they're being taught in elementary and junior in high school and and so on. Where I don't love

AI is where it takes a position or there's an empty chair at a writer's table and there's six writers and there's an empty chair and there's a computer in front of the empty chair and it is the seventh writer at the

I'm not willing to substitute you know because I don't really believe insentient insentience. I don't believe that there's any substitute

there's any substitute for the soul. I don't think that is an algorithm that is inventable if there is such a word. And I think that the difference between a computer that's smarter than people, but a computer

that thinks it feels more than we feel is anathimate to the way I was raised. and how I'll practice my own trade of producing and directing in the future. I don't want AI involved in that way. If AI wants to help me find locations, that's great. It saves us all a lot of legwork. But don't tell me that I don't have the right antagonist in this movie.

Don't tell me how to write my dialogue for this character. Don't tell me where the camera has got to go. And also, don't tell me what the set should look like unless AI is simply a tool in a large tool chest of the production designer. And just one of many tools the production designer uses. So their own impulses are what is going to determine how good my sets look. Use AI as a tool, but do not use AI as the final word on anything creative. That's where I draw the line.

I know that you have a house full of creatives. I do. I have filmmakers and actresses and... What do you tell your kids? I'll tell my kids to find. follow their hearts because their hearts are going to tell them, their hearts are going to pave the roads for them more than anything else. Just follow your hearts.

I have kids that do more than one thing, which is great. I have kids that act and paint and they write and they perform and they sing and they have imaginations. They've all got great imaginations. And I just say, you know, hey, you know, if you have the urge, you, you know, if you have the urge, You have to follow that urge. You have to let it lead you. And who knows where it's going to take you? Well, your kids are amazing, and I've had the privilege and the honor to spend time with them.

They are creative and interesting and humble, charismatic, all of that. And that's a tribute to both you and Kate. My kids are making their own names. I'm proud of them for that. They are making their own names. They are. They are. It's great. They are. Well, Anna, Craig, did you have anything to add, too? No, I don't, I think we've covered enough for Anna, but this has been really me, Steve. Thank you.

Yeah. Anna gets some advice from Stephen Spielberg. It's like, whoa. How about that? Yeah. Stephen, I love you to death. I love you to death, too. Yeah. And I'm not trying to suck up so I can see Disclosure Day before it. I've got to show it to you sooner than later. That would really start something if you saw it before Barack saw it. Oh, yeah. Not that I'm trying to start stuff, but that would really start something. Yeah, he may never let me back in the high round again. Well, I know it's going to be an amazing movie.

The Buzz has been good. You've got an amazing cast, and it is so timely. You know, everybody's asking. And the question's already been answered, but Barack Obama, he, what, you know, is like, what's the answer? Is there, is there life out there? Well, Barack was right when he said that he believes there is life out there. I think it's mathematically and scientifically impossible that there isn't life out there where there aren't advanced civilizations out there. the big question remains, have they ever come here? Or the other question is, are they here now? And that's the question that my movie tries to answer.

Stay tuned. Can't wait. Can't wait. This one I may go to the theater for. Oh, you better. This is for a big audience. This is for big audiences. You hear that, people.

Don't watch it on your iPhones. No, this one's for big audiences. Barack Obama is just being petty. Go to the theaters right away. Stephen, thank you again for being here. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you, Craig. Oh, thank you.

This was a pleasure. This was almost like sitting around the living room. Yay. It was. Good, good. That's what we hate for.