IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Stop Chasing The Shiny Things with Jamie Lee Curtis

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

This week, Oscar-winning actress Jamie Lee Curtis comes on IMO to talk about her anti-Hollywood Hollywood upbringing, what she thought of her role in Everything Everywhere All at Once, and her real thoughts on awards season. Plus, she shares a profound personal update.Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I've been waiting patiently to do my thing. Yeah, yeah. Bidding your time. And I have suited up and shown up for lots of different work. I did commercials when no, but I mean, I won an Oscar and I sold yogurt that makes you shit for six years. This episode is brought to you by ship. Hey, you. Craig Robinson.

Michelle Obama, how you doing? Good. Always good to be with you. Oh, it's so nice to be here. It's been raining a bit. You know, it has been. And speaking of rain, so you know we had the kids here, they're all gone. Kelly's gone. I'm now by myself again.

And I was enjoying sitting outside of my Airbnb. Did you sit outside it? No, it's been raining. So you've been trapped alone. I've been inside, but I haven't had zero to do because my Airbnb has a pool table. Oh, yeah. So I've been working on my game. Have you really been?

I've been working on it. Is it a good, solid pool table? Yeah, oh, no, it's a real pool table. It's a real pool table. And I realized that I haven't played pool in forever, so I'm terrible. But it gives me something to do when I'm there by myself. But you also said that this is a famous. place that you're staying

this time. Yeah, it's Orson Wells' home. The former home. Yes, yes. A lot of historical stuff inside. Do you know if it's been passed down? Like, do they, does Airbnb give you a bit of a history? Did you know that? No.

How did you know that it was Orson and Wells? I didn't know until I walked into the place. So when when are the folks at Airbnb give me a couple to choose from And typically I choose the one that's closest to the office. And that's what I did.

I didn't really do much research. And then I walk in and there's memorabilia everywhere. It's really cool. Really cool. For a Turner classic movie guy, it's pretty cool. It's like you're in heaven. Yeah. You are in heaven.

I am in heaven. Well, speaking of the classics, our guest today is a classic beauty, personality, all the above. It's going to be a great episode, y'all, but Craig is going to do the formal introduction. Yeah, I'm going to do the formal introduction for Jamie Lee Curtis, who is an actress known for her roles in many iconic films, including the Halloween franchise, A Fish Called Wanda, Freaky Friday, Knives Out,

and most recently, The Last Showgirl and Freakier Friday. In 2023, she won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress for her role in everything. everywhere all at once. And we got to say hello and I am so looking forward to spending time with Jamie Lee Curtis.

Jamie! Yes, you go to her first. Welcome. So happy you're here. I'm not here before. Welcome to IMO. I like it. Hi. That was a nice introduction.

It's always weird for me. I'm sure it is. No, no, it's weird. You said the Halloween franchise. I was like, it wasn't a franchise. It was a 17-day shoot in Pasadena and Hollywood for $300,000 in 1978. It wasn't a franchise.

It was a gig that was so great because my name was on every page. You know what I mean? That was the thing about it. That's what Halloween was for me at that time. Yeah. 19. I was like, are you kidding? Yeah.

So it's funny that it's, you listen. I'm sure you both have that. Mm-hmm. Where you hear, as we're older now, you hear things and you go, really? That's me. That's my life. I totally agree.

And you want people to, it's like, okay, okay, that's enough. That's enough. Well, yeah, it just doesn't, you know, why? Because I don't relate to it. That's right. That's right. I honestly don't relate to any of it. I only relate to sort of the immediate moment here with you.

I was at Children's Hospital, Los Angeles before I came here. That became an immediate moment. I do not look back. But it speaks to your, it speaks to your character too. Yeah, I was going to say. You're not taking yourself like, that's clear the second

someone meets you. I mean, that was like, oh, she's real. Yeah. You know, I mean, she's a real person, a real woman. But that's so strange to me because it's a, I understand that the industry, that the whole concept is not real.

It's that magical, well, you're talking about Orson Wells. I mean, that idea of you're a Turner, a classic movie nerd. Yeah. That lore of what that is in Hollywood and the speakeasies. And yes, I know some of those houses in Hancock Park that had the speakeasy built into behind the wall. But I live the life of a human being. So I'm a chopwood-carry water kind of gal. So I've never understood that the idea of not being real of having some fake thing, it would make me crazy.

Well, a lot of people would say you are the, you know, you were the daughter of Hollywood, right? Of that image. But that's what people would say, what do you think kept you grounded? Janet Lee. Okay. My mother was from Stockton, California. Her name was Jeanette Helen Morrison. She lived in a garage with her parents.

And she became, you know, it's too long of a story, but she was discovered by Norma Shear, silent film star, who there was a photo, long story. There was a photograph of my mother at a motel where my grandfather was the manager of a ski motel at a ski resort in a ski place. and Norma Shear was married to a skier. And they stayed at this motel and saw the picture when she was checking out and said, who's that? He said, that's my daughter. She said, may I have the picture? Took it to Hollywood.

They called for her. She became an actress, changed her name to Janet Lee and starred in a movie with Van Johnson right away in whatever year it was, 1948, I believe. And that began her career. but she was from a really rough childhood in Stockton, California. She raised me. I feel like I'm watching Turner Classic right now. See, my sister doesn't know that you read, you did this on Turner Classic to introduce the whole story of your mom.

And I've got goosebumps right now listening to you. You have to remember, that was my mother. My mother was Jeanette Helen Morrison from Stockton, California. My father was Bernie Schwartz from New York City. Now, Bernie Schwartz became Tony Curtis. He adopted the fake life. Now, he did it with spirit. He did it with some style.

He bought mansions and art collections and had a kind of grandiosity about him. It was charming. Yeah. If he walked in a room, he would be a little bit like, hello. And he would walk to tell hello, I'm told. And, you know, people would just be like, and he lived a little bit like a prince. Yeah. So he lived this fake reality.

Of course, died a drug addict. My mother lived a very real life and stayed real her whole life. Her book that she wrote was called There Really Was a Hollywood, which tells you everything that for her, that idea of there was something magical that she then entered. I grew up in Los Angeles, California on a dirt road with a donkey and a stable that wasn't ours next door. You know what I mean? I grew up a Southern California kid. Yeah.

Like you're talking about kid. Like I grew up not in a fancy life at all. Right, right. And so my mother is the... Were you aware of who your mother was? You know what? You become aware of it. I'm...

I guarantee you, I don't know about your family life, Craig. I didn't do my homework. Oh, that's okay. That's okay. I was in Chicago yesterday. So I did not do my homework, but I don't... Well, I'm telling you the shows. I hear you, yeah.

I'm sure that your daughters have had to deal with the fact that people know who your parents are before you walk. in a room or as you walk in the room. That's the first thing that is said. I understood that to some degree as I became, you know, a teen. I don't think as a kid I knew anything, but I think as a teen, you, you understand there's something. But remember, there was no internet. There was television. My parents were movie stars, not television stars per se. They weren't coming into your house. And they didn't, their movies didn't show on television.

So it wasn't like I, like they were in the movies and then the movies went away. Oh, sorry. And then the movies left town or whatever their movie was. And then they went on to the next one. So their fame, their, their presence just became attached to me, but not because I had, any clues to really what that meant, what they did. I'm interested because I think, you know, I am fascinated with parenthood and, you know, how people get things right and what, you know, and I'm just, you know, what did your mom do

right in terms of your day to day, the messages that she sent to you that helped keep you grounded? I think it was just the way she lived and just the way she interacted with people. I think she never lost that sense that she was, that it was a miracle that she became Janet Lee. And that impoverished childhood. She had a lot of sadness in her family life. Her father took his life. When she was first married with Tony Curtis, her father took his life.

She had a lot of sadness. I think there was obviously alcoholism. in the family. So she had secrets. I think, I think though, just that that was her, she was the nicest person. She would talk to every person. And I think that just really, it wasn't a specific thing. I mean, we grew up, as I said, in a very normalized life. We had, you know, early, early bedtimes and chores and bikes and, you know, played outside. And neighborhood friends. And, you know, a lot of fantasy play, but that's just what kids do. So I think it was just the normalized life that she didn't.

You know, but I certainly didn't come up with this. Someone way smarter than me came up with it. That being a parent that if you're successful, it's the only thing you're successful at that ends in separation. Like everything else, the whole success is based on the staying and holding it and clutching it. The goal of a parent is to actually separate into separate ideologies, separate physical lives. And hopefully there's nice interactions, but people are allowed to have their own minds. because having your own mind is dangerous.

Or to some it's perceived as dangerous. Well, it's dangerous because you're challenging just through the idea of having your own ideas is going to challenge the status quo. And that to me is the great gift of my evolution. Is that my mother's gift? I don't know. I don't know if my mother would love the mind I have. Do you know what I may have challenged some of the, like I guarantee you, right? And I can tell you right now, if my mother had been alive during everything everywhere all at once,

she would not have liked. I mean, I don't think she would have liked the movie. And I'm not speaking ill of my beautiful mother. I think that would have challenged every norm because in her years as an actress. Being an actress meant a facade. Very much about what you looked like. and how women were perceived in their bodies. And I think my mother would have, it would have been very challenging.

Hey, Mish, you ever notice how even tiny choices can feel really personal? What we buy at the grocery store, the little preferences we don't want to budge on, it's not random. It's how we take care of ourselves and the people we love. You and I both know our family has opinions about everything. And somehow those little choices end up saying a lot about who we are and how we care for people. You know about me and sardines, right? What about you and sardines? You don't remember this.

I was hoping I catch you off guard with this. I love sardines. It's my comfort snack. I remember our dad loves sardines. And that's exactly right. And I enjoy eating them on a club cracker, but you remember him eating them on saltines? Yes. Yes.

With mustard. With mustard, that's exactly right. And I don't do the mustard anymore. You're not following tradition. No, but I am also not following the saltine crackers. Do you remember the fact that we couldn't use ritz crackers because we had to save those for special occasions? Special occasions. Yeah.

Well, now I got all the ritz crackers I want. But it tasted really good. and he let me try it, and I loved it. And now my kids prefer their chips and cookies, but it really feels good when Kelly grocery shops, and she remembers to grab sardines just for me. And they're good for you. Yeah, yeah.

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That's s-h-ipt.com. Thanks to ship for sponsoring this segment. I think we're probably the first, the beginning of the first generation of women who is pushing against the norm, the standard, the way women were raised to, and conditioned to think about themselves, think about themselves in connection with the rest of the world. Their place is women in the family. Because it was all orchestrated by men.

Yes, exactly. So as soon as women started to understand that they could have their own mind, they could challenge job equality, pay equality. There's people who don't like that. Billy Jean effing king. That's right. I mean, just the way she challenged. Yeah. And it's a scary proposition to some of the men that are used to being in complete. power. Of course. Yeah. It's like, don't have your own mind. Have mine. Well, that's, so what happens is we become

our own people because I'm not Tony Curtis. That's right. I don't walk around, oh. Yes. I'm shaming. How are you? You know, but I'm flirty. Mm-hmm. Like he was. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm a wicked flirt. Yes. So you, you know, I have not. You develop pieces of Yes, you make your own life through the trial and error and experience of others and a lot of error. So I don't think, I think getting sober gave me a lot of that. I've been married, gave me a lot of it, being a parent gave me a lot of it. Obviously, big time having, I hate this word. It's just awful.

The word I don't like is accomplishment. It's like it's hard for me. So I am having a lot of external accomplishments at a very late age. And when you asked what was the sort of causation, what were the factors, I've been waiting patiently to do my thing. Yeah, yeah. Biding your time. And I have suited up and shown up for lots of different work. I did commercials when no, I mean, I won an Oscar and I sold yogurt that makes you shit for six years. And it's a good laugh line. I use it a lot. But you have to remember, I did commercials. I was 20,

six, 27, maybe 28, I had done a fish called Wanda. One day my phone rang and they said, hey, Hertz rent a car. Somebody called me and said, hey, they're looking for a female business executive to run through airports. You've been asked to do it. What? Why did they understand that I can sell something? I don't know. I was an actress. I wasn't Jamie. I wasn't, I hadn't established my jamiedom. Do you know what I mean? I just was a young mom, a young act, married person, and I had been in a couple of movies.

Now, you can imagine when I was offered to do commercials for a probiotic yogurt that helps regulate your digestive system with bifidus regularis. You remember. Dude, I remember every word I've ever said in any movie, ever anywhere. Wow. Every word. Wow. Really? Everything.

But my point is, I guarantee you someone was like, really? You're going to do yogurt commercials that helps you poop? And then it became parodied on SNL. Yes, I remember. And then Kristen Wigg did the parody. That's when you kind of go, oh, okay. that's interesting. Now we're talking.

Because like now you're in the mix. You know what I mean? When you do a commercial and someone parody is on television? You become a part of the culture. You're now part of a cultural thing. So all of a sudden, that has never been a problem for me. But that wasn't your plan. I had, I've never had a plan, Michelle Obama.

Did you have, well, maybe you did. I kind of did. I did up until. You're a total effing G. I mean, you're just like, G with a capital, big-ass G, man. So, yeah, I'm sure you had a plan. I didn't have a plan. I can spell plan.

Well, since you didn't have a plan, when you were younger, I read you wanted to be a cop. Well, I, by the way, Craig. Yeah. I got into college because my mother was the most famous person that had ever gone to the college. They're like, let her in. My application. that had an 840 combined SAT score, and I believe a C-minus was probably graded on a curve to give me a C-minus GPA. I don't know what it was.

Somebody who's a brainiac will tell me what a C-minus GPA is. It is not good. Somehow, the University of Pacific and Stockton, California, thought, I'm your girl. Yeah, right? We want her. They could see past the ice. I had no business. They could see past the application.

I had no business in higher education. I should have gone to a trade school. I'm not joking. I really, I am not an intellectual and I don't pretend to be one. And I had no business in college. I, you know, majored in criminology and minored in being a little sister at a frat. I mean, I mean, seriously. So when did you think, all right, then I'll go in the family business?

But I would never think that, Craig. Look at this. I'm telling you right now. This is not the girl. You have to remember, my mother was the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Tony Curtis? I know. Holy moly me.

They were beautiful. Yeah, but. I was cute. You know what? I'm just telling you, Michelle. So the idea that I would go into the movie business where this is your life, I had no discernible talent. I don't do accents.

I'm not that girl. Right. I never went to drama school. I'm just a living creature who's developed over these low many years. And my point is it was the last thing I thought I would do is be in show business. And it was an accident and it's boring and it's a long story. But it's not boring. But let me ask you this because they.

There are a lot of young people listening out there in the world. God bless you. Who believe the same thing about themselves. Like there is nothing obviously that I have. And I want to ask, what was it that you tapped into in the midst of all that that kept you going? Because right now there are a lot of kids who are like, I don't see my future. There's nothing. I'm not pretty enough.

I'm not this enough. I'm not really talented enough. So they quit or they don't put. I, what, what, what was your, what was your driver? What was the thing in your head that said, I'm, I'm going to figure this out? I'm going to, I'm going to not tell you the story of how I became an actor, which was boring and literally was an accident. And you've told this story. Right.

I've been, you know, I became an actress because somebody I knew randomly said they were looking for Nancy Drew. at Universal. It was home at Christmas. And I was like, okay, I was lucky. So a lot of it has to do with luck, Michelle Obama. I had no clue. I didn't have a clue. I just followed the next thing. I didn't. I, but I have a very strong work ethic. Yeah. And I'm curious enough to ask questions. I want to know. Things I don't know. I can say I don't know. And how do you do that? I have no training. And yet. Did you ever have any training? training? No. So what did you, what were you learning as you, you know, you went about your acting ability? Like what light bulbs were clicking for you as you went along or were you just fully like, it's just what comes up. It's like read this and go do that.

Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. I'm an emotional person and I would like to say I'm an empathetic person. And if there's anything in me, it's that I have an understanding that life is hard for people. And a deep level of empathy, which why I tear up in it is that it's so, it's so absent these days. Because our leadership isn't showing it, you know.

I know. So it's really nice to see it in action because it's out there. It's out there. It's out there everywhere. Yes. And there are people, there are beautiful people. There are just, I mean, I had a colonoscopy recently. Please tell us more, Jamie.

Heidi's, Heidi right now. Heidi's like, I swear to God, this is what just happened in the back room with Heidi Schaefer. She literally just went like this. Well, we at the table have all had colonoscis. I had a colonoscis. And it's that the Twilight thing is pretty good. Just so you know. First of all, I write notes to my doctor that I somehow can twist around and write them in

eyebrow pen, you know, eyeliner pencil on my butt. You don't. I do. And I write arrows pointing and I say this side up. I write thank you. doctor, I won't name him, thank you Dr. M for going to medical school. I, you get that all on your butt. But then I also bring a $100 bill and I say, listen, if the anesthesiologist wants to dial the propofal up just a little bit and the hundies gone when I wake up, just pull it out the

because, yes, sorry, but that's not why I've brought up my colonoscopy. But I do. Once again, we digress. But for those of us who have had it, it's like that's hilarious. I do draw diagrams and arrows to remind them. Never thought of that. And I still go to Walter Reed to the military doctors. I think that might be a good one for my next colonoscopy. I'll send you a picture. I took a picture the last time.

Please do that. I'm not going to show it to anybody. The reason I brought my colonoscopy was the general. Okay, was that the nurse who greeted me at 6 a.m. to put her in the IV and to, you know, get me prepped before the team comes in, I'm talking to her. And she's young, beautiful, Hispanic, young girl. And I said, you know, as we do, you have kids. She said, yeah, I have three. And I said, you have three kids. I said, where are they right now? She said, they're at my sisters. I said, She said, I dropped them there before I come to work. It was 6 a.m. Yeah. She's waking up three little kids.

Every day? She said five days a week. Yeah. She says, I said, what time did you get them up? She said, 4.15. Every day at 4.15, she wakes up her three kids. And she's put their school clothes in the backpack, in each of their backpacks. And she takes them to her sisters in their pajamas.

And then they go back to sleep at her sisters. and then her sister takes them to school. Every day, five days a week. You see, I didn't have that. I don't work that hard, and I don't have that life. That wasn't my life with my children. But I'm aware that that's really the life going on around me. That's right.

I was just at Children's Hospital, Los Angeles. You want to spend a day and understand how hard people work. Everyone should. Go to a children's hospital. volunteer to Children's Hospital and see how dedicated those teams are to those. So for me, not to belabor the point. I think it's just simply, I'm aware that life is hard. My favorite quote is from the Princess Bride. Life is pain, highness, and anyone who says differently is selling something. And it's really... Well, and it's something to be mindful of. You don't get something for nothing

in this world. And anybody tells you, I don't care if he's the president or not, you don't get something for nothing. You know, there's a cost to life. Of course. You know, there's a cost to making sure everybody has health insurance. And there's a cost to all of us to make sure that that nurse could possibly have some more reasonable, affordable child care while she's serving other people. There's a cost to all of us to have a clean environment. You don't get to do it without paying taxes or shorting your taxes. That's the fundamental idea of being human. Oh, well. Of any religion. Oh, well. Any religion. That is the cornerstone of it. Yes, it is. Help each other. Yes, it is. Love thy neighbor. Yes, it is. Welcome someone. Be open. Put your hand out. Reach back. Help somebody up.

Reach back. Pull them up. It's the nature of for me. And that's not, I mean, my parents, were, you know, good people. But it wasn't, it's just the experience of being alive this long. And I mean, I don't have any other way of doing it. I am a worker amongst workers. That's not just a recovery phrase. Yeah. That's been my vibe for a long time.

I would have required our crew here wear name tags so that when I walk in the room, you know my name. I don't know yours. That there's an imbalance. Oh, that's a good idea. No, but that's an imbalance. And right away, it puts me, I mean, I'm the one sitting here at the table with y'all. But like, I don't know your name. Like, that feels imbalance to me. And on work that I do as a, as the leader of a show, that's a requirement. So, I mean, I have some, I have a lot of opinions. I'm just opinionated. Well, it's a good thing you're on IMO because it's all about opinions. So this summer, the FIFA World Cup is bringing fans from all over the world into cities across the U.S.

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Maybe you live in a FIFA World Cup host city. If you've ever thought about hosting, this summer is a great time as we well-weller. welcome FIFA World Cup fans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. April is the make or break month for momentum. That beginning of the year push is in the rear view. And it's up to us right now to decide if we'll keep grinding, or if we're coasting until summer. Take this show, for example. There is so much that goes into running a podcast. And if there's one thing I could tweak this month to make the rest of 2026 easier for me, it would be finding tech that actually works for us instead of slowing us down.

That's why so many businesses start with Shopify. It's built to take the guesswork out of running and growing a business. With everything from your storefront to payments to marketing, all managed in one place. I'll say this. When we're ready for IMO merch, and I know we want it as badly as you do, we definitely will be checking out Shopify. Whether you're just wanting to test an idea out or you're getting serious about launching your own brand, it's never been easier to get started. And you can do that on Shopify.com slash IMO right now. I try to always have a protein bar on me whenever I'm on the go, something quick and easy that will still keep me satisfied. But with protein bars, it can often feel like you're choosing between taste and nutrition.

If it tastes good, you flip the package over and suddenly there's a full paragraph of ingredients you can't pronounce. Artificial sweeteners, low-quality protein, fillers, I might as well just eat a proper dessert. I didn't want to have to choose between tasty and nutritious, so I kept searching until I found Aloha Protein bars. Aloha bars are USDA organic and made with ingredients that are actually grown somewhere. That's part of their whole taste that grows philosophy. They use plant-based ingredients grown in the ground, thoughtfully sourced, and built to keep you satisfied. For example, their peanut butter cup bar has 14 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber, and only 5 grams of sugar, which is wild considering how delicious it is. It's made with absolutely zero artificial ingredients or fillers, and it has become my go-to snack when Kelly isn't stealing them from my bag, that is.

So if you're in the mood for something truly craveable and nutritious, try any of Aloha's protein bars. grab one at your local grocery store or head to aloha.com. So, Jamie, you recently... I get into that very late-night DJ voice. What Craig. At what point in your career did you start sort of aiming for stuff that you were... Like, you're talking about I'm doing things now that are for me. Accident. Same way I'm an actor. Accident. I'm telling you now, I was sent everything everywhere all at once. It was the weirdest thing I'd ever read. I didn't understand a word of it.

I still don't. I need to watch it two more times. I didn't understand a word of it. And my agent sent it to me. I had made the Halloween movies in, in Charleston, Wilmington, and Savannah. Okay. So all of those movies were made away from my family. I have two children. I have a dog who loves me more than any human on the earth. And I have a husband and family and friends. And all I do is leave town to work.

Okay. And I was sent to script. And it, first thing, it was shot in Los Angeles. So it was shot in Seamy Valley, Los Angeles, which is not, it's outside the TMZ. So it's far enough away that they could get away with making it. But it was still Los Angeles. I was still going to sleep in my bed. Two, it was starring Michelle Yo, who's getting her star today, even though I know this is months later.

She is actually right now getting a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Michelle Yo. And three, they gave me enough money to pay cash. cash flow. And I said, yes. Those were the three reasons. I didn't understand it. You weren't angling. I wasn't. I didn't know nothing. I just said, okay, but I knew her. You understood. Deirdre's. Deirdre. I know her. This is someone who's unloved, untouched. I understand the power of your job that when someone has a job like that, all of the slights of humanity, that has come your way as an unattractive, um,

unlovable human being, all of the slights that come with the, those two descriptions. And my job is to say, fuck you. Yeah. No, you're going to have to do all that again. Oh no.

Oh, no. This is my payback. I'm, and so that was her life. Mm-hmm. And the key to Deirdrebao Bo Beardra, was, if you see the movie again, she has beautifully manicured hands because I realized

that was the only time she ever was touched. My point is, that was made in 38 days in Seamy Valley in January of 2020. We wrapped the movie the day COVID started. So whatever Monday, March 16th, was the last day of the shoot, 2020. And the movie didn't come out for two years.

The movie came out in March of 2022. And then it won nine Oscars or seven Oscars in March of 2023. Now, if you think for one second that you had a plan, driving to Scini Valley at five o'clock in the morning to go to an empty office building that used to be the countrywide savings and loan camping. sexy and not have trailers because we used offices in the building as our dressing rooms. And you're making a movie about the multiverse. And you think, oh, yeah.

This is my chance. This is the one, man. This is going to. This is, whoa. So what goes through your mind when this season is in, it's in, it. And you're like, what? I remember exactly where I was sitting. I remember what I was wearing when Heidi and Rick, the assistant,

called and said, I have Rick and Heidi for you. And I was like, oh, okay. Hello? And you go, hi. I was like, hi, what's up? He said, hey, listen, we wanted to talk to you. We had a conversation today with A24, releasing company. I was like, yeah?

And I said, I said about what? And they said about the campaign. I was like, the campaign for what? And they said, well, you know, we want to make sure that they're including you in the campaign. I was like, I can't say what I said. Yeah, I can. It's right. Yes, you can.

CBS isn't going to fire me. No. Well, isn't that what they do? That's what they do. Yeah, apparently. But not here. Not here. You know, I said, fuck you to both of them.

I was like, stop it. Stop it right now. There is no campaign. They said, well, we just want to make sure that, you know, they're going to do a big push for the movie. I was like, okay, whatever, look it. Just back off. Anyway, that became insane. And it's really a thing.

Yeah. And it's really mind-swimming. And I did everything I could the whole time to go, la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. This isn't me. Yeah. Like just not, I didn't want to read anything. thing. I didn't want to have people whisper things in my ear. I hated it. Yeah. And I, the last, I never in my life, you have to remember, I, the last thing in my life I ever thought would ever happen

would be that I would be nominated for an Academy Award. That just was never in the cards. That was never anywhere in the work I did. It was just, that was what other people had happened to them not me. And I am telling you that morning, that morning. And this, I got COVID at the Golden Globe. Thank you, Colin Farrell. And we've worked it out. Anyway, he, um, uh, uh, gave me COVID at the golden globe. So I, I had been homesick with COVID and it was the day of the nominations. And I'm telling you, I'd had like a lot of people texting like, he's so excited. I was like, sure. I was like, Shut up, go away, stop. And then I woke up that morning and I went downstairs.

Now, my husband of a long time makes really funny movies. And one of the movies he made was a movie called For Your Consideration, which is a parody of the season of shiny things. It's the whole idea of this weird little movie, somebody whispering in somebody's ear that they're going to get an Oscar nomination. And then what happens, Catherine O'Hara, that great, weird thing? She can do that with her face, sweet girl. We just lost her what? A week ago, two weeks ago. Anyway, I know this is later.

But that wasn't tape or anything. She had this weird ability to make her face look like that. And so, but, you know, and what happens to people, the mind game that goes on. That's what the movie is about. My husband made that movie. So that morning of the Oscar nominations, you know, my husband said, what are you doing? I said, well, I'm going to get up and watch the thing. He said, why? I said, you know why, honey? A, I have to exorcise you in your movie. Like, I can't, this is, this is my life.

That was a movie. I said, I'm not a character in a movie. I'm a person. I said, I'm aware that there's enough chatter that there is a chance that that would happen. I don't think it's going to happen, but I'm telling you that's a possibility that it could happen. And here's the story. This will delight you. I've been an actress for a long time. The only person I know who won an Oscar is Deborah Oppenheimer. And on the morning of the Oscar nominations,

I was like, I get up really early. So I was up at four. And then, you know, I made coffee or whatever. And then at like five, the thing starts at 5.30. So like at 5.10, I looked at my 5.10. I looked at my phone. And there was a text from Deb. And it said, I'm sitting outside your house.

I have my computer with me. If you don't want me to be there with you, I'm fine where I am. But I'm here. But I'm sitting outside your house. And I opened my gate. And there she was. And she was sitting in her car with a pillow. and her computer

and she came in and sat with me. And when my name came up on that screen, I didn't know she was doing this. My friend Deborah Oppenheimer was taking pictures secretly. She kind of held her phone

because I could not believe it. And the real moment of disbelief was when they called my name and then they called Stephanie Shoe. Because, you know, she was my, she wasn't my daughter in the movie, but she was the other actress in the movie. And it would have felt wrong to me. Right, right.

Because she has fantastic, she's fantastic in the movie. Anyway, that was the moment of real exuberation. But I have it all on film. Oh, my gosh. And that's the, like, the last thing I ever thought. what would happen in my life was that moment. Right. The rest of it was not like, like the rest of it, the night of it, I went with my husband.

We sat, I literally this happened. We were sitting in the front row at the frickin Oscars. And there was Michelle and Key and Steph. And then the Daniels were over there. And I kneeled down, we were in the front row. on the left side. And I kneeled down in front of Michelle Yo and I looked at her and I said, Michelle, where are we right now? She said, what do you mean?

I said, Michelle, where are we right now? She said, at the Oscars. I said, uh-huh. And why are we at the Oscars? She said, because we made a movie that people liked. I said, uh-huh. And where are we sitting? And she said, in the front row, I said, okay, great.

Just checking and make sure, I'm awake. Like aware. And then I went down the line, sat, kneeled in front of Key, key, same thing. Steph, same thing. Be aware. So when I say, there we were in the front row. It was literally you had already won. It was like, Michelle, Key, Steph, all of us were like, wow.

How did we get here? How did we get here? Yeah. And then, of course, the miracle of all of them. miracles is that we won. You are so the anti-superstar. I mean, I just don't understand it. Yeah. And I think it's beautiful. I think that's why people love you. That's why I am in love with you. Now you're flirting, Michelle. You are one of one. I'm a flirt. I can do it too. I can do it too. But you've changed the notion of what it means to age in the public eye. And I'd love for you to

talk about that. Sure. Because I'm hoping that we are ushering in all of us because I'm 62, you are 67. We are in our 60s, which I think is the best time of life. Without question. And I want to talk about that journey for yourself, how you feel. It's like, you know, you're not, you know, you believe in aging. Well, aging happens. Like shit happens. aging happens. I mean, it's coming for all of us. But that's not what Hollywood is all about. You know, here's the problem. It's not just Hollywood. It's also technology. It's also social media. It's also filtering. It's also, it's what we used to call airbrushing is now just filtering. It's all fakery. It's just the fakery. It's the cosmaceutical industrial complex, which is as insidious in many ways as the military

industrial complex is about money. Yeah. So it's just about freaking money. Right? And it's the idea that you're going to tell someone that this is going to change you and make you better and therefore better means you'll be more loved, you'll be more successful. So it's this cycle of bullshit. But it preys on our base insecurities. You know, and for many people it's what they look like.

Now, I've never been pretty, and I'm saying it out loud. I'm not been, I wouldn't. Oh, you've never thought you were pretty. I wasn't pretty like that. I wasn't pretty the way girls are pretty. I was cute. I was cute. I can look good.

I'm not, I can fully look good. But that was not my. You weren't the traditional notion of pretty. That was not my ticket. Yeah. And that's very important for me, because that was never the thing I relied on. I have succumbed and have talked about. at many times to trying all the things. I've sucked the fat. I've cut the fat. I've tried to do the

things that people do that everybody's doing. And it doesn't work. There are many things that happen. When you say it doesn't work. It doesn't work, first of all, because the self-esteem issue, because you ultimately are looking in the mirror and realizing you've used something outside of yourself to change something to make you, quote, better. But you're not, not better because you're still the same person before as you were before. I think it actually makes you feel fraudulent, and I think it creates self-hatred. And for me, accepting that I look the way I look is part of self-love. Now, P, I did that magazine, as you know, years ago, more magazine where I took off my clothes. And the reason I did that is because I was a cover girl

of magazines. And again, people were comparing themselves to me the same way I would compare myself to someone else. And I know what it feels like to look at a picture of a beautiful woman and go, oh, oh, I'm, why is it? What's wrong with me? Yeah. I've got like, really? I'm never going to look like that. And so I, in the one thing we haven't brought up at all is that I also write books for children. And the books I write for children are about things. It's they're not just nothing. They're about issues and topics that plague children as much as they plague adults. I'd written a book about self-esteem. It was called I'm going to like me letting off a little self-esteem. It was about self-love. How do you get it? Esteemable acts is how you get self-esteem.

It's back to your question of young people. They don't feel. feel like I don't know what to do. Do something for someone else. Boom. There you go. Mm-hmm. The dopamine hits. You're like, you're filling up with goodness. It changes the way you do. So I'm promoting a book for children about self-esteem and I was doing the cover of more magazine and I realized I was a liar. Because if I was paying attention to what I wrote, I wouldn't have done plastic surgery. I wouldn't have done liposuction. So I said, you know what?

I'm going to take a picture of me in my undies with no good light, no makeup, no hair. I'm going to stand there on natural and you're going to take my picture. And then you're going to let me get all dolled up. But you're going to have to print those two pictures side by side. And you're going to have to say how long it took, how much money it took, how many people were involved. and then I'll do that. And that was something, that was in 2001. We're in 2026.

That was unheard of. But that was even then me understanding that what we're selling is fraudulent. It has only gotten crazier. And by the way, I'm not proselytizing. I know that some people take, have, like, I know there's a lot of weight loss questions out there right now. If it actually helps people be healthier, God bless them. Well, Jamie, we have a listener question.

As Jennifer Lewis said, I talk too much. Way too much. I do. You're in between two opinionated women, which is... We have a listener question. A G. A G. A G. G. I'm telling you right now. Sorry.

That's okay. Craig. What do you want? I would start saying that one. Craig. You'd hear our listener question from Madeline and maybe offer some opinions. Okay. We have a question from Madeline in Boston.

Okay. I am entering my senior year of college and it feels like my generation is unsure what the point is in a time and world that is full of greed, unfairness, and loneliness. How do you find purpose and drive to work towards your interests and goals when it often feels like there are only certain routes to be successful and sustain a happy lifestyle from Madeline in Boston. Well, I mean, that's the question, right? Purpose.

That's right. Purpose. Ultimately, it's fine purpose. That when you say or are feeling that you can't find your path to the purpose, my experience with people over and over again is put yourself in the path of anything, put yourself in the path of love. Put yourself in the path of work. Put yourself in the path of purpose. Like, again, volunteer. You want to feel purpose? Go to a children's hospital and offer to volunteer to be one of the, you know, the helpers that work in hospitals. The need is great out there in the world. I think finding your purpose is putting yourself in the path of it. You may not know what it is. It may not, as I've, as I've,

I am a living example of that nothing in my life represents what I thought or had even a fantasy what my life would be. I had no idea. I didn't have a purpose. Keep your mind open. So for me, you find your purpose by putting yourself in the path of it. I just feel like people keep thinking purpose is going to come to them. That's right. Love is going to come to them.

Work is going to come to them. Success is going to come to them. And it is not. You have to go to it for it. You have to go for it. I love that. I'd want, what's our question? Madeline.

Madeline to also think very carefully about how she's defining purpose, right? Because I think that's some of the confusion these days. because purpose in this day and age, right now, this moment in time, is fame, money, you know, more. It's all stuff. It's acquiring. It's superficial. So when we talk about purpose, I think, we are talking about something much more altruistic. You know, the dopamine, hit that comes with engaging with other people, you know. So I want her to think beyond stuff, even, you know, yeah, go to school, get your degree, if you can afford it, you know, have a good career, you know, be able to support yourself. But I know too many people who have all of that and more,

the billionaires in the world, the millionaires, the people who are famous, the people who have it all, the people that you look at and think, well, I want their purpose. And what they're doing isn't making them happy or whole. It's not giving them self-esteem. In fact, it's doing the opposite. So I want Madeline to think about working outside of herself. And by the way, Madeline, tough name to have after Lily Allen's album. Oh, yeah. Craig doesn't understand that one. You know what? I'm going to play the whole thing for you. It's going to blow your mind. It's so genius. Talk about it. G, it's a G. Anyway, but before we began this, you know, I've talked a lot about like my life, but the truth is I'm also a mom. I'm a mother of two. I've raised two children from birth through uncharted waters because I had no role model to show me how to do it. And every human being is different. And there's been different. And there's been different. in our path with our children and our children were born through adoption and our family was built

through adoption. And we were talking at the beginning of the podcast. And the truth is, all of this emotionality that I have is really rooted in being their mother. Yes. Oh, my God. Don't make me cry. But the truth is that the, The greatest lessons, the hardest days ever in my life, ever have been being a parent. And now a grandparent. And we were talking before. And I needed to call my daughter and her husband to ask if it was okay. But the idea that I would be this person at this age,

Excuse my friend, forget the movies, forget the things, forget the shiny things. The shiniest thing is a child. Yes. Oh my God. The greatest gift is a child. Yeah. And getting the privilege of raising them and learning how to help someone through their life. And My husband and I became grandparents to our eldest daughter and her husband. And their baby boy was born in December. And it was a week after Robin Michelle. And Robin Michelle are her godparents. And they died on her birthday.

And my beautiful daughter, who loved them, as we all did, managed to be able to metabolize that grief and sadness, as we all have had to do, obviously, nothing greater than their children. But as close friends and I know colleagues and friends and people we all admired. And then my daughter and her husband brought their son to this world a week later. And life on life's harshest terms and life on life's most beautiful, perfect terms. And the reason I brought it up is I remember where I was the day your husband was elected president because my daughter called me from a party that she and her friends were at. My daughter was in college. And I remember where I was sitting in a hotel talking on the phone with my daughter

about the possibility that the world was going to change because of the election and because of you and your husband stepping up saying, we're here to help you. And I remember where I was that day, and now that daughter has brought a little grandson into our lives and the joy. Talk about. And I never thought, I never thought I would have children. I never thought in my wildest dreams. I would be a grandma. Yeah.

A granny. Granny. I want to be granny. Granny. But so it has just been an extraordinary connection. And when I called my daughter today to say, hey, I'm about to do this. We have never talked about it.

It's been a private matter. But we live in a world. Many people know in our circle. Many, many people know that, you know, we're grandparents. One of these days, somebody's going to say something. And I am getting to say it. And when I called my daughter and said, you know, I'm about to do this thing,

I think it's going to come up. How would you feel about me talking about it? And she said, tell her, I love her. My daughter, Annie, said, tell her, I love her. You are loved and so respected that she would say, yes, Mom, you can talk about it to Michelle Obama. Because she's a G. Because she loves you. Because you represented love in the world and you brought love to the White House and

and beyond. And so it's really thrilling to me that the first time I'm going to say to the universe that I became a granny is here. is here with you and that it was and that she said that I could do it because it was you, because of what you've represented to her and her generation of young women and how much respect we have for you and your husband. And well that's, you too. Yes, you too. You too, Craig.

Thank you. But that's for Madeline. Your aura is very strong. Because we know from the ring. And I just, I'm, I, I, that's, anyway, that's the truth. That, that is the truth. For, that's what she said to me. For Madeline.

And Madeline, I'm so sorry. No, but this is, the point being that, like, so many wonderful things have happened to all of us in the world, so many tangible things. but knowing that you can impact people's lives in that way, like, that's purpose. And that's a purpose that sustained you through ugly stuff and name calling and lies. And it fills you up fully. And I want young people to understand that, right? Like, you don't, like money doesn't buy that impact, you know. Titles don't give it to you.

it's how you show up in the world. That matters. And the only thing people are going to remember at the end. That's right. And that's the shiny thing. That's to me. That's what Madeline should be working towards. That's what we all should be working toward.

For sure. And that's what you and your husband work toward. And that's the gift that you guys gave us. And that was the hope that you offered us. And I believe that, well, I know you've changed the world. for the better, and I believe that the times are going to change. And I think our better minds

are going to start paying attention to the corruption, the greed, the avarice, the hatred, the misogyny, the homophobia, the violence, the violence perpetrated by this administration in the name of America. I believe that will change. And I believe the example that we will lead toward is the example you and your husband give us.

So if I get to say nothing else on this, I got to say that to your face. Thank you. Thank you very much for everything that you have done for all of us. Thank you. Thank you. What, Craig? Thank you. Thank you.

What, Craig? Hey, sometimes you just have to give you. rebounds. You don't score. You don't have to score. Sometimes you just play D. And by the way, there's your gift to Madeline. That's your answer to Madeline. That's right. Sometimes you're just the, you are, you are just the teammate. Yeah. Well, and you can be a good teammate. You are a good teammate. But Jamie, thank you. I digress. Thank you. Thank you for this. This was powerful, beautiful. Ah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.