IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - "The Friendship Bubble" with Elizabeth Alexander

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

Legendary poet and teacher Elizabeth Alexander sits down with Michelle to discuss their 30 years of friendship, how they struggled as young mothers, and crucial support their friend group has given to them at the low points in their lives. Elizabeth also draws the curtain back on what really happens when you go on a retreat to Camp David with the First Lady.Find the episode transcript here: audible.com/tlp/episode7See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Light Podcast is presented by Starbucks and Intuit. It is wonderful to be here, and I'm so excited about the evening that we have ahead, and I want to tell you about my beloved sister friend, Michelle Obama. We're here to talk about a long friendship. Michelle and I first met more than 30 years ago in a magical village in Chicago called Hyde Park. President Obama and I were both teaching at the university there, well before he became the president, well before it was even an idea. It was before any of us had children. It was before we moved away to other cities and new adventures. But from that moment on, Michelle and I have been on a life journey together.

We were pregnant with our first children, Malia and Solo, at the same time. and called ourselves comadres. We called ourselves comadres, and we've been at each other's sides through the changes of motherhood as they grew to adulthood, the changing nature of familyhood, the twists in turns of careers,

evolving bodies, growing older, making new dreams. So tonight I am so honored and so very, very happy to introduce to you, my beloved sister of 30 years Michelle Levan Robinson Obama. Hey everyone, this is Michelle Obama and welcome to the Light Podcast.

Now, it won't surprise you to hear me say that Barack is my best friend. It's sort of the standard answered for married people, but it also has the benefit of being true in our case. He is the love of my life, my partner in all things. and someone who has seen me through the good, the bad, and everything in between. But honestly, I don't depend on Barack for everything. As much as I love him, I know that's too much to ask of anyone. And that's why I'm someone who takes her friendships very seriously. Whether I met you three months ago or three decades ago,

If we've built a meaningful friendship, I will work hard to foster our relationship and be there for you when you need me. I've got your back because I know you've got mine. And one of those people I know without a doubt that I can count on is my dear friend, Elizabeth Alexander. It felt like a warm blanket to sit down with her for a long, soulful conversation about friendship, fostering them, nurturing them, the deep humanity that lies within them. Now, I've known Elizabeth for 30 years since long before the presidency was even a glimmer in Barack's eye. She's a distinguished poet and writer and academic, but to me, she's even more than that. She's an authentic and genuine friend, and she'll always have a spot at my kitchen table.

So I hope you enjoy our conversation. Hey, honey, sister, girlfriend, everything. Elizabeth, this woman, you know, we could talk about her for hours. She is brilliant. And thank you. Thank you for sharing this night with me. Well, it is so wonderful to be able to do this and to have so many things to talk about

starting in the zone of friendship, the sacred zone of friendship, and long, long friendship. That 30 years surprised me when I added it up. I know. I was like 30? Really? We don't look it, do we?

We don't look like we've done anything for 30 years. We're not trying to look it. I'm not trying to look it at all. What I want to talk about is what I appreciate about our friendship. I've written some things down and I have some more things to say. Don't make me cry. No, we're not going to cry until later. Maybe we'll build up to it.

So I appreciate its safety. I appreciate its. family dumb. I appreciate its honesty. It's sometimes very bracing honesty, but always true honesty, because that's what is so important. So those are just some of the things. And I wanted to go to the part in the book where you write about the weekends at Camp David that we would have with the girlfriends and what it was like to make new friends when you were first lady. And what your friendships mean to you now as the girls have become adults, and you and the president have moved into new stages of life. Well, you know, I write a whole chapter, which I call my kitchen table.

And this is a book about the tools that I've adopted over the years that help keep me balanced and upright, because that's a lot of what people write to me about, they ask me about, especially in these times. And so this is not all the answers, but these are the answers that have helped me. And as we've said time and time again, the goal is to create a conversation because we all have the tools. It's just that we're often not asked to reflect upon them and realize how we're using them. And one of my biggest tools is my kitchen table. And why I call it a kitchen table is that that's where in a lot of families where all the happenings go on. is at the kitchen table.

And my kitchen table on Euclid Avenue was that safe space for me. It was a little bitty house, a little bitty table, but my brother and I, we could come there, we could throw the worries off our backs from the day. We could sit and share, be ourselves, be seen. So that table from a very early age was important to me. And as I grew, I just added to it.

And when I got to the White House, it became even more important to have a strong kitchen table. People around me who had my back, you know, who were a safe haven for me, who could see me beyond what the world was trying to pin on me. And girlfriends at the table were critical. And our friendships started way back in Chicago, as you said. And seeing the pictures of Solo and Malia, I mean, What was beautiful about our friendship then and what I learned from it was that that was the first time I realized that you really cannot do this life alone. That's right. And we would get together at friends' houses.

We had an elder group of individuals who would cook a couple of nights a week, and they would invite us over with our kids. And there was just a beauty as a young mother of being able to kind of come to a space where there was a community of people who would people who would people. pick up your baby, just give you a second, you know. A lot of mothers are shaking their head where you just needed a, just needed a minute so that you could get a breather so that you could then show up well for them. We had that space together. You know, we got fed at that table. You know, we were loved at that table.

We were unconditionally loved, and our sisterhood grew from there. Yes. Solo and Malia were playing on the floor together, you know. or sitting next to each other where we'd say like, they're friends, aren't they? They're friends. It's like certainly they're friends.

And they're going to be married. They're going to love each other and they're going to be married. Yes. And I remember also, you know, what you learn from people who have done it before, simple stuff, that one night solo was fussing.

And so one of our group of friends, and I got upset because it was new mother, new baby. Baby's crying. And said, like, he had just given two wooden spoons. Yeah, two wooden spoons. And he just started click, click, clacking away, and he was fine for the next hour. But, you know, I think that idea also that our children were welcome because children are welcome.

Yeah. Which I think is something that's also really important in this idea of family, not just the children who happen to live in your home. Yep. All of the children were welcome. Yeah, yeah. And I think also, and, you know, you talk about this in the book, when you, you, became first lady, things became very different. And you couldn't roam the land freely. Yeah, I was, in the friendship bubble at the time. In the friendship bubble. So, you know, some, you had to be the one to get us

together. Well, and it was, and also I knew the importance of having friends, even as first lady, you know, I had a crop of what I call in the book, my barnacles, people like Elizabeth, those stalwart friends who were with you throughout the years, they are sturdy and hard, and they're crusty and they last. Kind of. And they're cute. They're cute and crusty. So I had my barnacles, but when we came to the White House, Malia and Sasha were still young. They were fifth grade and second graders.

And we were trying to make sure that their life was as normal as possible. And in order for their lives to be possible, I had to be. a normal mother, which meant that I had to have mom friends. I had to know what was going on in the school. And you know all the parents, you know what's going on from the other parents. That's right. So I could, yes. And you also know which parents not to be bothered with, too. That's right. Yes. Everybody knows that. I'm Laura and I'm from Oakland, California. This is my best friend, Amanda.

We're all from a mom's group. So we all had babies together. Our babies were born the year that he was inaugurated. And we all came together at the hospitals. And so we all had never met each other before and ended up spending every Tuesday and Thursday together trying to navigate the newness of motherhood and what that meant for all of us. this dates back 14 years, right?

So we didn't have the benefit of like the instant communication, but we would email each other at all hours because you're navigating how to breastfeed and, oh, my baby's not sleeping. And there was always somebody that was available. So we had a group email, and it would be three in the morning, and there would be somebody else,

and you didn't feel quite so alone. Take care of you, take care of the baby. You eat, baby eats, you sleep, baby sleeps. Like those were the ground rules. And you're killing it, even though you're, If you can do those four things, you win. Here we are, 14 years later at Michelle Obama speaking tour. We'll be right back with more of my discussion with Elizabeth.

Oh, I just loved hearing those stories. And when we left off, Elizabeth and I were talking about friendship too. Now, I'll be honest, when our family first moved into the White House, making friends felt pretty daunting. but nonetheless, I knew I couldn't make it through four or hopefully eight years living in isolation. So it was critical that I get in there and meet some people. But how do you meet people when you're surrounded by armed guards where people literally cannot touch you? They can't come up and shake your hand because it'll be a down, ma'am.

I was like, well, that could have been a friend, you know. They don't care about my friends. So in order for me to make that happen, I had to extend myself. And I tell the story in the book of one of those first friends who was now a lifelong friend. Her name is Danielle. I tell the story of, because I kind of picked her. You know, I picked her because, to tell the truth, the kids went to Sidwell. It was not that many black kids in the school.

And so I saw little Olivia, who was a little black girl. and I was like, you're going to have a play date, Sasha, with Olivia. That's Olivia. Now, at the time, Olivia and Sasha hated each other. So Sasha was like, I don't like Olivia. She did something to me. And I was like, well, you're going to have a play date with her because I need a friend. They are now the best of friends, and we make them thank us for that.

But I saw Danielle, and she was. I liked her because she wasn't all up on me, you know? She wasn't thirsty, you know? And there were those that were always right here. Let me tell you something. And she would always fade into the back. And I was like, I want to, you know, I want to invite Olivia over to a playdate. But the experience of having a playdate with the daughter of the first lady is an experience.

So I didn't realize until afterwards she told me the story of what that experience was like. for her picking up her child from the play date at the White House. She told me she got, first she got her hair and nails done. Of course, of course. Got her car washed. Because as a black woman, she was thinking about her mother going, you are not going to show up in that house with a dirty car and messed up nails. It was a Saturday.

Nothing was going on. But she got a car washed and nails done. She wasn't even supposed to be getting out of the car. That wasn't the plan. She was just, but just in case. She wasn't even going to dry it up on that driveway looking messy. You have to leave your Social Security number. You have to, you know, you have to give all of your personal information

just to pick your child up from my house. So the play date is over. I know Danielle is downstairs to pick up Olivia. And usually the procedure is that the president, first lady, do not leave the residence. that guests are escorted up and down by what are called ushers. And I thought, well, I can't let this child be walked out of a play date by some ban, right? That's not normal. And I know her mother's going to want to know what happened.

It's like, did Olivia act a fool up in here? So I thought the least I could do normally was just go down and look her in the eye and go, girl, she was good, everything was fine. That was the normal thing to do. That's what you would do. And I was like, I am normal. I was just normal just the other day, so I'm not going to act brand new now. So I, unbeknownst to all the security guards, walk down the stairs, down the elevator,

with Olivia, through the dip room out into the South Lawn. And when the principals walk out, all the security pops into action. So cat team, black vests, machine guns, sniper. Yeah, all of it. Slowly start descending on the lawn toward her car. And what they had told her was under no circumstances

are you to leave the car, ma'am. So I walk out and I'm like, hey, Daniel, come on, get out. She's like, come on, get out. She's looking at me, she's looking at them. I'm looking at them.

I was like, let her out. She slowly gets out, and I like the way she played it cool, you know. She didn't look like she was shaking in her boots. She wasn't sweating. She's very cool. We had a brief conversation, and from then on, another Daisy in my life was born, and we are good friends now.

We are all good friends. All good friends. Well, you gave your friends friends. Yes, yes. You gave your friends friends. And, I mean, just to say, I want to talk about... Camp David and the exercise. Yes.

So, yeah, this is, I'm surprised I still have friends after this. But this is the importance of the intentionality of friendship, which is one of the points I make in here, that even before the White House, my friendships are important, but you have to plan it, you have to be intentional about it. You have to schedule it, as Elizabeth said. So being as busy as I was, I needed to black out time. And so what I decided, because I was trying to multitask, I need to exercise, be with my friends, all of that all at once. So I thought, what better way to do that than have a boot camp weekend at Camp David?

Oh, my God. Ooh, PTSD. So I gathered all my friends. And of course they were like, ooh, we're going to Camp David. Little did they know that what that meant was three workouts a day. With Marines. With Marines. Yeah.

Actually leading us through the exercise. Like we were, they would take us through boxing lessons. This is when we were playing dodgeball one, one time. And it got vicious. You know, we would climb Bertha, which was a hill on Camp David. We would do calisthenics. We would meditate. It was a bit of a mountain, actually, as I recall.

It was a mountain named, named for a serious black lady. It was called Bertha. And we would go up. It was a mountain. We would go up and down and up and down. Well, these are pictures in different places because what happened is that Camp David, the exercise extended beyond because I wanted my girlfriends to be healthy. You know, and I knew that we were all busy women, doctors, business people, professionals, mothers, that we needed to teach each other how to take care of ourselves. We needed to challenge ourselves.

We needed to learn how to sweat together and to bond together. Now, I didn't allow wine. First time, the first time. The first time. And then nobody was going to come back if I didn't pull wine back in. We were so busy. We got so busy because we just, you know, there was no wine. We needed just relax our muscles after we used them.

I added wine back in. So we would do our boot camps at least three times a year. And that's how all my friends became friends with each other. other. Yes. And that, you know, I guess the point I'm making is that we need friends, we have to be intentional about it. There are too many people who are reporting a level of loneliness and isolation in record numbers. And we have, and for the young people, you know, Elizabeth and I were talking about this, a lot of young professionals have gotten used to over quarantine wanting to work from home, you know and it feels like that's a good thing because the thing about isolating yourself is that

you don't have to compromise you don't have to adapt but when you are isolated and don't get into the practice of regular engagement with people looking people in the eye sitting across the table and not across the zoom with a person you don't build up the kind of trust and familiarity and connection that we need as humans. And I think that's one of the reasons why we're all acting a little crazy right now. You know, that we have been isolated away from each other. So with young people, you know, I would encourage you,

even if you can work from home, to find time to connect and learn how to do that. Because if you can't do it at work, you miss being able to do it among your friends. And that's where isolation and loneliness comes in. And when that happens, you start to not trust anyone. You only trust yourself, what you hear, your world gets small. And that's something that, you know, we have to work against.

And my point is that if I can do it as First Lady of the United States, anybody can make a friend. Anybody can push themselves out of their comfort zone. And it's a critical thing to do. No, that's right. I will never forget the first invitation I got to Camp David. Dr. Sharon Malone is a very dear friend of mine, an important member of my kitchen table. I'll never forget the first time I invited her to Camp David with some of my girlfriends.

I told her to come for a nice, relaxing weekend. She was surprised by what happened next. I have to tell you, I had no idea what to expect. I'd never been there before, but it was going to be a retreat. I said, well, okay. And my idea of a retreat was, well, see, we'll be getting massages, we'll have, cocktails and we'll sit by the pool. And I have to tell you, nothing was farther from the truth. Our retreats were really based on health and wellness and eating well and exercising.

And, I mean, exercising to a level that I don't think many of us who were there had ever exercised like that before. We would start the day with meditation. We'd have three workouts a day. But the fun part of the whole event was our kitchen table, our dining, table, actually, at the end of the day. We had worked out, we felt good, a little bit of fatigue, but this was the opportunity that we got to really hash out what was going on with us. And imagine a table with 10 women around it where no topic was off limits. We talked about our children, our family, our jobs, what was going on with us personally. And, you know, even our parents and families. It was a supportive environment.

where we could get advice, seek counsel from our friends, and get honest responses. And I have to tell you, of all the things that we did in Camp David, I think that was the most nourishing for our souls. We exercised our bodies in ways that we thought we could never do, and we did, and we ended our day always with the love and support and care of the women around us. We'll be right back with more of my discussion. with Elizabeth. We have some fantastic questions. Questions?

Yes, questions. Questions from the audience? From the audience. In fact, let's start out with Nikki from Creswood, D.C. Nikki. Is Nikki in the house? Nikki from C.C. says, you speak often about the wonderful gift of girlfriends

and women friendships, as we have been discussing. Which role do you play in your girl group? The jokester, the mother, the therapist, the one who keeps the piece? Which role do you play? Yeah, I said this, sir. I think I'm the therapist jokester. That's my role.

We're all funny, I think. I think so. I think I'm funnier than you all are. She's the funniest of them all. And I think also you are the, I think you're the anchor. I think you are the anchor. You are... Well, I've got, I had the biggest house for the longest.

Very big house. You had the best snacks. That's right. I had better snacks. Francine from Baltimore wants to know how you spend a perfect rainy Saturday. What are you doing all day? Watching TV. Yup.

Music on. What are you eating? Who is around? How is that day spent perfectly for you? Well, it's a great day if I'm all by myself. Why, I love my husband. Sometimes he peeks in and go, why are you watching that? And it's like, get out here.

I want to watch Real Housewives. and don't judge me. Get. Real housewives with like french fries, a glass of wine. Popcorn. And a blanket. Popcorn. But if it's a real special day, it would be French fries, not popcorn.

You wanted my ideal day. Popcorn is like, yeah. French fries. And what else might make that day perfect? Rainy Saturday. And then I go to bed early. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And then last audience question is, so this is Jenna from Lexington, Kentucky. If I could be a fly at all on the White House wall, what would I be most surprised about?

I imagine it all feels fancy and your every move is taken care of. What is the reality? You know, and I probably will regret saying this. Take a beat, baby. It is definitely fancy by all standards. butlers, florists, ushers that usher people up and down your house as I, you know, there's gardens and things like that. But it's also an old building. And it is, because politically, it is hard for a sitting president to make the decision to spend the money to do repairs because the other party will criticize the president and say, oh, look, he's taking taxpayer money.

So I will just say this to the people in here. The White House needs to be cared for, and it is an old house, and it needs new wiring, and, you know, one day we were in our bed on a Sunday, and is across from the dining room. And this was the first term, and Sasha comes in, she's little, and we're sort of sleeping in. So she comes in, and she's like, Mom, it's raining in the dining room. and Barack and I are like, what? She said, it's raining in the dining room and we said, okay, go to bed. Get out of here.

Get out of here. Because we thought she was just trying to get us up. And then it got quiet and I heard rain. So I get up, put on my robe, I cross the hall, and it is raining. Literally, a pipe that was so old had burst and it was pouring down rain. And luckily the staff was there and they moved the priceless art away, but it ruined the ceiling. But I say that to say that there are old pipes that burst and could destroy that house. It could catch fire.

So if a president, regardless of party, decides to renovate, do not, don't get mad. Don't get mad. It needs it. It needs it. Thank you. You all thank you so much. Thank you. Elizabeth Alexander, thank you.

Oh, I just love Elizabeth. We talked a lot about friendship in this discussion, but one thing I wanted to emphasize is this. Friendship really is a two-way street. You don't just want to have good friends. You've got to be a good friend too. That means taking the time to check in on your kitchen table. dropping in when you're in the area, even just a text when you think about them.

In fact, is there someone in your life that you haven't been in touch with for a while? Why don't you give them a call or shoot them a message right now? I bet you'll be glad you did. All I know is that I'm so glad I had a chance to have this conversation with one of my best friends in the world. Elizabeth is really just incredible. and I hope you got a glimpse of that as you listened. And as always, thank you for listening. Talk soon.

This has been a Higher Ground and Audible Original. Produced by Higher Ground and Little Everywhere. Executive produced by Dan Fehrman and Mukta Mohan for Higher Ground and Jane Marie for Little Everywhere. Audible executive producers Zola Masheriki and Nick DeAngelo. Audible co-producers Keith Wooten and Glenn Pogue. Produced by Mike Richter, with additional production by Joy Sanford, Dan Galucci, Nancy Golumbiski, and Lisa Polack. With production support from Andrew Eepin, Jen 11, and Julia Murray.

Location recording by Jody Elf. Special thanks to Melissa Winter, Jill Van Lokerin, Crystal Carson, Alex Maseley, Haley, Haley Ewing, Morone, Highley-Meskel, Sierra Tyler, Carl Ray, and Jerry Radway, Meredith Coup, Sarah Corbett, Tyler Leckinberg, and Usra Najam. The theme song is Unstoppable by Sia. The closing song is Lovely Day by Bill Withers. Audible head of U.S. content, Rachel Giazza, head of Audible Studios, Zola Masheriki. Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC.

Sound recording copyright, 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC. Voiceover by Novena Carmel. This episode was recorded live at the Warner Theater in Washington, D.C.