IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - Trust Your Creativity with Mahershala Ali

Episode Date: October 21, 2026

Academy Award-winning actor Mahershala Ali joins the show to discuss his upbringing in the Bay Area, his conversion to Islam, and how becoming a father has shaped his perspective on life. Plus, he talks about his new film Your Mother Your Mother Your Mother, which is out now. In this episode: Dr. Kathleen Jordan, Chief Medical Officer, of Midi Health.Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You got to turn. I always say you got to turn water into wine, and they don't usually give you a vineyard as a result to turn in water in the wine. They just give you another glass of water. And so... That's a bar. Yeah. Craig Robinson, welcome to IMO. Thank you, Michelle Robinson, Obama. You almost left out the Obama. No, I was going to say Obama Robinson. I was like, in my row.

For a second, I thought I tried to keep Michelle Robinson Obama. when I was practicing right after weekend. It was just too much. It's a mouth full. How you doing? I am doing really, really well. That's good. Really well.

Feeling good, looking good. And excited about our guests. We've got... Mahershala Ali. Did you all hear that? I mean... Did you? And there's been some excitement in the studio.

And needless to say, we don't have to say it because he... Just the way he carries himself. Yeah. Every interview I've seen and the movies I've seen him in, it's just like he's one of those guys. You're like, I wish that was me. You know? I wish that was me.

Well, let's do a proper introduction and get this conversation started. So, Mahershula is a two-time Academy Award-winning actor best known for his performances in Moonlight and Green Book. He can most recently be seen in Jurassic World Rebirth and in Amazon MGM's Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother in theaters nationwide. And we are going to bring him out. You and I got a sneak peek of this movie.

And we're not going to spoil it, but you will love this movie. You will love this movie. So without further ado, Mahershula Ali, come join us. My man. Looking fly. Thanks for being here. Have a seat.

Let's take a fashion moment. Oh, thank you. Gene on Jean. Thank you. You know. Yes. My Canadian tux. Yeah.

Now, that's that, that tux is from somewhere else. That's a little too fly. Thank you. I can't believe this is our first time meeting. Yeah. Well, it's good to meet you. I've been wanting to meet you for a while. We did it.

So thank you. We did. So you all didn't meet each other? Leave the world behind? I wanted to meet you. Yeah, yeah. I hope people, leave the world behind as a...

Another good movie. An apocalyptic movie. It is still one of the top viewed movies on Netflix. Yes. That was a trip. So we were a co-producer on that, but it was during COVID. So we didn't get a chance to come to set or anything like that.

It was a strange time. Strange movie, strange time. Yeah. And feeling a little too close to home right now with all the things going on around the world. It was not. It was funny because when folks found out that we were a part of that, one of the big questions, Barakets, is did you get involved with that movie because you know something? You know, I mean, everyone. It's usually the number one question he gets is, are there, is their life on other planets?

And now it's, were you trying to tell us something in that movie? Do you get that? Do people have that reaction? I haven't gotten that. I haven't gotten that. You know, just my job in general is to deal in fantasy. So, you know, I think I get a pass. You know?

So are you a shelter guy or are you or let's just get to higher ground somewhere guy? Yeah. Boy, you know what? I'm a little bit of a recluse, so I think I would be more of a shelter guy. You would be. Yeah, yeah. Are you prepping? You know, I probably should.

Like stuff that's happening with our food all the time and things that are going on. I feel like I need to find where all the good stuff is at and start growing my own things. And, you know. No joke. Yeah, sometimes things feel a little uncomfortable out there. Yeah, they do. They do. Well, on a brighter note, where is home?

Home is in Los Angeles. Uh-huh. Yeah. So home is Los Angeles, which I love. I'm from the Bay Area originally. And so California speaks to me in some way. I feel very comfortable with sort of the quality of life and the space. The people are very familiar to me.

L.A. and the Bay Area are very different in terms of how the people kind of roll a bit. But there's something in the spirit of California that definitely speaks to me in the West Coast in general. Yeah. We're spending more and more time in L.A. Yeah. Every time we're like, why don't we live out there? Yeah. I think we've lost.

our daughters to California. Are they in California? Yeah, it's the same thing. I mean, you know, they've spent time in New York, a bit, Chicago, D.C., but there's just a real, because they like the outdoors. They like the, you know, just the active nature of life. And, you know, I think that's it. You can make it your own in a way.

That's what there, yeah. Like you can, if you want to be outside, you want to be in it. It's, or just in nature, there's something about California where the sun and the light, the, the trees and the mountains, it just, it just really resonates. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Well, you seem like a peaceful dude anyway. I try to be.

There's a thing. Like, I'm just, you know, your voice is taking me to the ocean and to the mountains. Already, you just have that way. Yeah. Yeah. So you grew up in the Bay. Grew up in the Bay area. Now, how would you describe that childhood?

What was the Bay life like? Oh, man. The Bay was complicated when I was growing up. I grew up right outside of Oakland in a little city called Hayward. So a lot was going on in the 80s when I was coming up in Oakland. A lot was going on in a lot of major cities throughout the country then. And so my mom was very conscious about where she was raising me, because she didn't want me dealing with certain elements.

She was very protective in that way. But I was outside. I was in the streets. I was on my bike. Me and my cousins were BMX racers. So we would be from when I was four to 10 years old, we were on our bikes every single weekend or at a race competing, like an organized BMX sports.

Or then after that I transitioned into playing baseball and basketball. And so it was a lot of sports, a lot of athletics, very healthy, competitive things going on and outside. Well, you know. BMX bikes did you have? I had a mini mongoose to start out with. I don't know what that is.

Then I was on the Schwinn team as a young kid for a while. So you were sponsor. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We were on teams and competitive and ranked and all that kind of stuff. For people who don't know, BMX? Bicycle motorcycle. What is, what is, and what is that? So now it's an Olympic sport, but we were dirt tracks. We were doing a lot of it in Fremont, California, and Sonol, but these dirt tracks with big jumps, jumps, and whoop-ty-whoops.

So growing up, we were, we were, like, racing every weekend for about, I was doing that for the first, like, six years of my, from four to ten. Wow. And then around 10 years old, I started playing basketball and focusing on basketball. And what drew you to basketball? I was probably better in football. But at a certain point, it was two things. My mom didn't love me playing football. And I was also dealing with, I was growing out of asthma at that time.

And so I would deal with it seasonally a bit. And so I just started focusing more on basketball. Okay. And it just worked out for me. You know, it was, I kind of was a kid who could have done anything. I kind of put my focus on in terms of sports. Yeah. But I ended up being more in basketball.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a little bit of a humble brag. I know, right? I like that. I like that. I like that. You were good at a lot of things. Yeah.

So now what AAU team did you play for? So I would play for a coach by the name of Donovan Blythe back in the Bay Area. I think our team was, we were kind of based in San Mateo, which is right over the bridge. But we had a lot of great players on that team who went on to have a lot of success from Jason Kidd to a gentleman by the name of Phil Handy. Yeah, who is also a coach now, works with LeBron, or I think he might be at Philly now. And out of the 13 of us on that team, 11 got Division 1 scholarship. So we had a nice squad. And so you ended up going to St. Mary's?

I ended up going to St. Mary's. Yeah. On scholarship. But I got recruited by a lot of WCC schools. And I didn't start coaching at Oregon State until 2000. Okay. Nine-ish? Six.

Eight, 2008. So you were gone by then. Yeah, yeah. But I'm sure. I saw you play. I'm sure. Yeah. Was your mother, one of your big fans, was she into your...

My mother was very into my spirit. My mother was very into my spiritual well-being and growth. Like basketball was very peripheral to her. Yes. It was, look, she... The most important thing to her was what is my relationship to God? Like... Period.

You know, and I say that with the utmost respect and appreciation, especially now, you know, raising a kid, a daughter and having a nine-year-old. But I'm very appreciative of what her focus was. It wasn't necessarily my focus for you at that time because I just wanted to go play ball, you know? And that was, that's what my priority was. but her focus was always about my spiritual well-being. What did that look like and feel like in the house every day? Church retreats. The full-on church movement.

Long drive to church on Sunday and being there half the day and coming back, it meant, you know, stop. We got to make prayer before you go off and go to school. Her mom was an ordained. minister. And my mother's sister is, my mother started and has a ministry. And so, and I saw, my mother had me young. And I think I saw her essentially, I don't want to say revert, but really grow up in

her own way and embrace her faith and become a fully conscious adult. And so My mom was she when you had her? It was 16 when she had me. And so she's in her late 20s. You know, she is, she's reading different and sitting down and present at home in a different way. You know, because there was a period of time there was just me and my mother. And I was, she was, I remember her graduating from beauty college.

and being a cosmetologist and styling hair for years and sort of being on this grind. And she was great at what she did. Like she was a wonderful hairstylist. I still did hair from home at a certain point after she got remarried. But then I think that also gave her space to sort of take her eyes a little bit off of a certain type of work and begin to dig into what I think she felt her nature was. So yeah, it was interesting to seeing my mother experiencing my mother coming to herself.

And what that means when your parents sort of convert or revert, you do too on some level, you know, because you're impacted by now what those new revealing boundaries are, you know, as they come into their own. Did you bristle against it? 100%. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, I felt because I think you begin to go, I think kids get very familiar with what kids are going to naturally push the boundaries, right? Yeah.

And I think if you feel like you're allowed to do something for a while, then suddenly you're not or gradually you're not. You feel like you're already not allowed to do certain things as you grow up because now you're coming into a certain type of consciousness. And it's like, okay, you're no longer permitted to do X, Y, and Z, just because you're too old to be doing that, right? But then on top of that, there's this other doctrine that is becoming a real part of your home. And so at the same time, you're going through puberty. You want to be like dating the girls now and out there with your buddies. And suddenly your mom is like, oh, no, that ain't happening at all.

You're like, what? It's like, when are, how do we get here? And so I think that that was a bit of a shot to my system. But again, when I look back, I'm very grateful, though, because I appreciate where I'm at right now. Where I'm at is not perfect. But I appreciate where I'm at and I appreciate my journey to where I'm at. And I think it would be hard to be here if I had.

if I had sort of free reign in the way in which my nature wanted that as a kid. It's funny how you come to that as an adult. But as a kid, you're like, you're not trying to hear it. These dudes on my neck. But I think generationally in some ways,

this youth is very different from my youth. You know, the type of trouble was different. You know, and so you have to give a certain, in my consciousness now, I have to really give a certain type of grace because of I just think what we were coming out of in that time. Just sort of as a generation, but as a people and parents having to navigate a lot of fear. So I do walk with a lot of gratitude for many of the things my mother was specifically trying to emphasize for me and keep me mindful of. Did it make you resentful of religion in any way? It didn't make me resentful of religion.

But I think if anything, my nature is the question. And so I just, if anything, it just made me want even more, if I'm going to be impacted by this, then I need some answers. It's like, let's break it down. Right? I need to be able to break it down. And so for me, well, this is just how it is, was not a good enough answer for me. You know what I mean? Or if there are like bridges that needed to be.

sort of created so that you go from not knowing to knowing, I really needed help with that bridge. And so I can be hardheaded in a way or persistent in a way that upon leaving home, I still felt naturally and very intuitively and instinctively on my journey for some answers for myself beyond what I was just told, you know. And so, so I think in that way I feel very comfortable in my skin in relation to sort of the conversation around religion and my mother or anyone just because of, it's just my own journey. And at least right or wrong, it's what I am, what I believe is a result of my own path,

opposed to one that has been necessarily carved for me and given to me that I needed certain things answered that allowed the world of the scene and the unseen to make sense to me, you know? This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Company. The Duluth Trading Company makes gear for people who work their butts off, and hard work looks different for everyone. For me, over these last few months, it's been hauling around furniture in between rooms for these home renovations we've been doing, which honestly has felt like a full workload. Oh, you were actually? I'm actually doing stuff.

I'm actually doing stuff. You know, what are you doing? I'm building tables. That doesn't count as home construction. That's not renovation. I'm doing a lot of demo work. You know what demo means? I do.

No. Demolition. You have done no, you've done no demo work. I doubt that you've been. You know, when they do demo work, they allow you to come in and swing the hammer and knock some stuff out. That's swing the hammer and knock anything out. That's not the demo work. I can't, I'm going to call, we need to call Kelly for this.

What's hard work look like for you these days? Well, these days hard work is, you know, just having a full schedule. I think in the spring, I went from. Vacation. L.A.? No. I went from L.A. to Toronto, back to L.A. to Philly, to London, back to New York. I mean, Chicago, all in the span of a few weeks. So that's hard work. See, that's the thing. Your hard work looks nothing like mine. And I think the hard work you think you're doing is nothing like the hard work you think you're doing.

You know, see, I've been doing these renovations. I've been doing these little little, little, little, you got your tool belt. I don't even know. You don't even have any tools in your tool belt. I got my tools here. This isn't even, like this is the hammer we had when we were three. I got, look at my screwdriver. I got my screwdriver here.

And it looks so neat. This is an people, an untouched, unused hammer. I got my Duluth. These are brand new. I got my Duluth trading tools. belt here. Take a look at my belt. The belt is clean, y'all. It's untouched. Don't mess with me. It doesn't have any demolition dust on it. You know, but did, were you not wearing that belt during demolition? Well, I wasn't wearing this. It's, it's, it's clean. It's, it's clean because it's relatively

new. It's unused people. It's relatively new people. It's not used because he doesn't use it. You know, I found myself having to hop on a quick video meeting for the podcast. In between all your dirt work. Yeah, and I still want to look put together. So that's why I wear my Duluth shirt. Check this one. This is a nice shirt. And you can wear this when you're doing your renovation work. So this is for your post renovation work because this is clean too. This is new. I have to say this is new. I haven't worn this while I was doing my renovation yet. But you could. You could have that have that dusted off and then you'd undust it. it and you look like you were ready for me. I would. I would. I mean, I would wear this.

No, it's good. That's a good quality. It feels sort of sway. It feels like you shouldn't get this dirty. I know, but it's very rugged and can handle it. But all kidding aside, Mish, that's the beauty of the Duluth trading company. I might not be putting in a full day dealing with heavy machinery like dad used to do. You certainly are not. But I still want clothes that give me comfort no matter what my day throws at me. What I love the most about Duluth is how much they've put into the tiniest details in their gear. Everything has extra pockets or is moisture wicking or layers really well to regulate your temperature. There's a reason I'm always reaching for their stuff in my closet.

They're here for people who work their butts off. Unlike my brother. Just like they do. Duluth trading company, shop online or visit one of their 60 plus or is nationwide today. Do you approach spirituality differently with your daughter? Or how do you and your wife approach it? I think in some way, forgive the word, but I do think that it is our responsibility. If you feel that you have discovered a truth

in the same way that my mother has felt that way, that I think on some level is your job to sort of indoctrinate your children in that same thing. To give them a foundation of something. With the opening of the reality is, though, this has to be your choice at a certain point. This is what I know and believe to be true. But at some point, you're going to have to make this your own. So I'm doing that with being fully aware of the reality.

that she may or may not grow up to agree with how I see the world. But that can't be the difference between us being close and not being close. You know? You're modeling a way to be on this journey. Yeah. Yeah. And at the end of the day, I just hope the creator is happy with her and the choices that she makes. Are you close with your mom?

We are much closer now and I'm so I'm so grateful for it. Like we are, we have, we had our moments where because of many of those things and me needing to make my life my own. Yeah. I think that there was definitely a break there. But I think over time we just have come together closer and closer and closer. And I couldn't be more grateful for that. Like I can get emotional about it. I could just feel she's like a magnet.

Can you tell us about your father? Yeah, my father, so my parents were together for three years. Okay. And they met at church and in high school. My father, they couldn't be more different, especially as they like the age, you know. My father was in musical theater. And so he ended up getting into New York because he won this national dance contest on Soul Tron. in 1970, October.

I bet we were watching. We were watching. Yeah. Actually, we just watching for sure. I might have been outside, but she was watching for sure. So I think it was October, 1976. I have his letter from Johnson and Johnson. And so he passed when I was 20 before I really started acting.

And at this point in time, sorry to cut you off, but at this point in time, at all, were you thinking about acting or performing or? Well, I did. to play my sophomore year in that first semester. And I told my dad about it. And I was really excited. And I remember him telling all his friends, he got the bug. He got the acting bug.

And that sort of aligned with, at that time, I was writing a lot of poetry. And I was dealing with insomnia and some stuff. So I'd stay up really late writing poems. Sort of like, that just felt like the time. thing to do. And it just gave me so much joy that self-expression like that and finding the words for what I was experiencing and feeling at that time. And those, funny enough, were like my first monologues. And I didn't know that at the time, but they ended up. I even auditioned for grad school with my poems.

And so my father, when I would, right at the end of his life, when I'd go visit him, he would have me, like, perform my poetry for his handful of friends that were coming by and visiting him or not. And so as he passed away, it was like that's when I shortly thereafter found myself doing theater not too long after taking an acting class and then my senior year I did a play called Spunk that was

originally done by George C. Wolf from Broadway and whatnot but we were doing it on our campus. And the first black play that had ever done at St. Mary's College and people freaked out because there wasn't a lot of black students on campus. It was like a moment. But we tore it down. That play was a huge success. And from that play, I got to do California Shakespeare Festival immediately upon graduating. And that's when I ended up auditioning for grad school and got into NYU. So it kind of like unfolded in a really sort of serendipitous. Yeah. The way like it just kind of happened.

And I think, you know, I learned a lot. My father did Dreamgirls, for instance, and traveled for years. He was with Alvin Ailey? He was, I think he studied at Alvin Aley for a while. He studied at Dance Theater of Harlem. He did a handful of musicals, five guys named Mo. I remember like omnibus, American dance machine. Like there's plays and parts I remember from like a young kid. But so I'd always known him to be working or working on working.

And I saw a really sort of almost blue collar approach to, like people think It's very, like, glamorous. And once you start going, it's very easy. But I always saw my father hustling and doing workshops and picking up extra work and then being in swing and, like, backing up people in big shows. And then having his moment as James Thunder early traveling, you know, the states and the national tour of Dreamgirls or whatnot. But I always saw him working to really put it together and looking for this, like, larger moment. And so I had such a respect growing up for that grind that I saw him sort of on. At any point, like most basketball players, were you thinking about, well, when I get done with this, I'm going to go overseas and play.

Or you never thought about that because you had already tasted a little bit of this and thought, okay, this is the path. If I be really honest with you, I think I was an athlete. who had an artist's heart. And so while I was, and I think I'd sort of, I played all four years, I was on scholarship all four years, but I think part of me gave up early.

I didn't feel like I was in a situation where I was necessarily being coached up. And how I am, I sort of saw behind the curtain. And I think I got disheartened by the business of college sports. I kind of started seeing the stepping stone element of it that if this coach does well here, they're really just trying to take off and go to another school, which is not anyone's fault.

Cool. But I think if you didn't kind of come ready made, it was you could kind of get shuffled off in the corner and other kids would be invested in that felt like they were coming ready to play. I'm not saying that was the case for every coach. Yeah, yeah. But that's fair. That's fair. I felt like what I was seeing and sort of experiencing and some of the other guys were sort of experiencing that like, oh, you're not what I thought you were, put you over here. Let's get this. Let's replace you. Okay. And so I was like, oh, nah, I'm going to invest in this thing that's given back to me. This got me where I wanted to go. I'm in college. I'm in college. I got to show up. I got to do my job. But the reality is this is going to be it from.

me. And so the thing that gave me so much joy, though, were things in the creative space. It was like I was discovering the arts, you know, from, from, it was, it was that poetry slam movement and moment in like an era, you know, where I was seeing these extraordinary poets like Saul Williams and, you know, that were just on television, on deaf jazz. Poultry or whatever who was starting to like do extraordinary things and had really profound thoughts and a view on the world, you know? Yeah. And so that type of path, like something in the arts, I was doing music a lot then. I was writing rhymes.

I was just trying to do, I was just being creative. And so even if it meant I ended up at an advertising firm or or in a creative writing program at Berkeley after St. Mary's. Like, I was going to go in a more creative space. And then I was, I did think about law school, though, because. There's a formative nature to it. And there's something in advocating. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. You know, there's something in seeing another side, seeing a point of view, and being an advocate for somebody, right? So that's, I was beginning to, like, get into that space. And so I could see the finite nature of sports. Like it was clear as day to me. And that scared me in a really healthy way, I think. And so I started like really urgently looking for other ways to find fulfillment and therefore working and beginning to sort of draft the future for myself.

And so I'm really grateful for. that incubator of college. Yeah. And all the the realities around someone, something look in a certain way

and learning that like, oh, this is not what it is. Like, that's the world. It's the best education you can actually get. It breaks people, unfortunately. Yeah, a lot of times it does. You know, it can break people, unfortunately.

But if you can survive it and navigate it, and be okay coming out of it, it can kind of give you sort of the necessary calluses to be able to handle the weight of the world moving forward. And so I don't think,

I wouldn't really change anything about that experience. You know, I'm very grateful of getting that really honest reality checks. This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Company. I've realized there are two kinds of clothes in my closet. There are the ones that feel good until you actually have to do something with your hands, and the clothes you end up reaching for over and over because they can handle whatever the day throws at you.

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And I talked to my doctor about it. It's like, oh, you're in. That's what's going on. And I wasn't sure, you know, I didn't feel like I needed to start taking hormones. I wanted to feel it out and see what it felt like. But these hot flashes were happening every 15 minutes, you know, and it's this rush of a feeling. I mean, the minute I started. replacing hormones. It was like back to my old self. And you know, you think it's magic,

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That's joinMIDI.com. And really the website helps you navigate. You can book an appointment right there. Do you start your journey there? What was the apprenticeship like at the Shakespeare Theater? My former professor and teacher who had directed me in Spunk came to me and said, hey, some people saw you from the California Shakespeare Festival. And they want you to come go an audition. I was like, I don't have no pieces to audition with it. Shakespeare?

Yeah. Was it all? Was it Shakespeare? Oh, Shakespeare. It was all of it? Yeah, it was Shakespeare. So I remember doing two poems that I had written. And I remember the program was $2,000.

And they gave me a scholarship, so I got to go for free. And they gave me a part on the main stage in Henry 5. So I got to play a character by the name of Montjoy. And I didn't know what I was doing Because again, I've been acting all the five minutes Right But they gave me a lot of love And I got to be with the

Sort of in the apprentice group in the day Then I got to be on the main stage With the professional actors at night I remember a gentleman by the name I think his name was Martin Kildare Who had gone to NYU And between him And a really important professor I had

from undergrad by the name of Victoria Trussell, I'd gotten a card from her that told me that I needed to go to grad school for actors she'd saw me in Spunk. And she said, you should, you need to seek essentially higher education in this. I was like, huh? I have that card literally with me to adhere.

Wow. Because I have my scripts for the show that I'm working on right now. So that card is 30 years old. So between Victoria's card And again, I believe in the name was Martin Kildare. Martin telling me like, yo, you need to go to grad school. I was like, okay, I did cow shakes through that summer.

They'd offered me a part for the next season in the professional company. So I was getting a lot of really positive signs for, again, I was just coming out of playing basketball. So this is new information to me. And so I'm getting my life signs. Yeah. But my experience there gave me a lot of hope and a lot of confidence. And it just, it was like a lot, like I said, life signs and sort of telling me like, yo, you're in the right space. How did you feel doing Shakespeare?

I mean, how did you learn that? And what did you learn from that different from the, what you even learned at Tish or what you learned, you know, in college? I had a teacher in high school by the name of Sherry Louise. And that was my senior. year, I'll never forget this. And we had, it was a Shakespeare class, actually. This is high school. This is high school.

Okay. And we started like, so there's this like, sort of general belief around Shakespeare that it's all this. Yeah. You know, really elevated language and it's very hard to understand. And part of her class was just like breaking down what it all meant. Right. This is the language they're speaking. Yeah.

Right. And that class. is even what really got me into writing my own poetry. But I'll never forget. I've never actually really talked about this. But that class excited me so much that it impacted how I got I got straight A's that semester and a D. And the reason I got the D was there was some like overview of history or something like that. We had the part of it was like the states. We had to go through all the states and I was so excited. I was doing so well that semester. I swear to God,

I was before the class, I was in class early and I'm so excited and I'll get back to the poetry thing. But I was so excited I'd written down all the states on the desk. Because I'd have my whole system like, okay, because it was just a larger general exam or something. And then next thing you know, she's passing the tests out. And I see her get to my aisle and I realized what that looked like. Oh, yeah. I was like, oh, God.

And I started like erasing them. She seized me and she flunked me for that final. And I wasn't cheating, but she thought I was cheating. So, but my larger point was that I was so excited through experiencing

like something opened up in my mind from, and really inspired me from taking this Shakespeare class. that it ended up impacting all my other classes. And then what I was doing to sort of deal with my own stuff was I started writing. Yeah. Well, it's like with dancers, when they learn the movement and the movement, it's no longer a routine.

Right. It, they embody it. Yes. You know, you forget about the steps. Yes. It becomes part of your muscle memory. Exactly. And Shakespeare, it sounds like that's.

It absolutely. But there's something about, you know, you as an athlete, you know, you as a, as the son of an entertainer. Yeah. Even your mother as an ordained Baptist minister, you know, there is performance and movement and all of that, you know, to give a sermon. And growing up seeing that in churches, you know, I think, I'm glad you said that. Like, I hadn't really put that together, but there is something to being in the audience. and your attention being on someone who is telling a story. Yeah.

Like every week over and over again. And to the point where you walk in there with an expectation of being told a story that day and going, how was it today? How did that impact me today? Did that message resonate with me today? What did he or she do to, like, arc that out and get to this climactic point where people are, like, stomping and, like, out of their seats and maybe crying or whatever that might be, that there's.

There is a tie there between Shakespeare and the pulpit, you know, and that I definitely grew up experiencing that. So it felt, I felt like I was at home, you know. I really did. I felt like I was at home in a way that. You were ironically built for it, you know, in a dealing way. Yeah. Yeah.

And you were converting at this time? So I converted once I got to, I was in my third year grad school. It was at the end of the first semester. And I had just gotten to the point where I was just asking myself a lot of tough questions. And I was really trying to investigate why I believed what I believed. What was causing it? Was there something? Grad school.

Okay. Grad school. Especially in acting program. Uh-huh. Yeah. They like, their job. they feel is to break you down and like make you start over.

Yeah. Because they're looking for anything that is getting in your way or all these preconceived beliefs and notions about yourself and who you think you are. And you could just, you can see it. You can see it in other people, you know,

the things that are blocking them. And so they are like poking and prodding to help you build yourself back up and to give you your own language to help you learn how you learn. And I think in that process, I just started asking myself, you know, why I believed what I believed

and I began to go on my own sort of exploration as to what I'm supposed to be doing and how I'm supposed to be moving in the world and relating to what I see and what I don't see. And, you know, that led me to a moment. a mosque in Philadelphia, and then I was in one in New York. And in both experiences, I was, I go to make prayer. And I'm just in the role with everybody else.

And they start praying, I just start crying. I'm like, this is weird. Why am I crying? Because I didn't, I wasn't sad or anything. I was actually extraordinarily happy at that time of my life. You know, I felt like I was in my purpose in terms of, I, felt good in terms of how I was beginning to define myself and my relationship to how I was feeling and what I was beginning to call my work and everything. So I was like, why? This is weird.

And the next week, I woke up. It just happened to be December 31st, 1999. And I was like, I woke up. I said, I got to go to the mosque. And it was a Friday. And I was back in Brooklyn. And so I go to the corner store. I know those dudes were Muslim. And I go, I was like, hey, peace, brother, peace, peace. Hey, I go, I want to go to the mosque. Where's the mosque? He looked at me crazy.

He's like, the mosque. I was like, yeah. He goes, Omar's going. There's a brother right behind him, like, you know, the New York bodega. There's always like some random dude there reading the newspaper or something. And he goes, Omar's going, but I knew it was like close to time. So anyway, I went back. I knew you had to be clean.

I didn't know how to make what's called Wooloo or your abolition at that time. But I just knew you had to be clean, so I went and showered. And I was like, I'll be right back. I borrowed my roommate's car who was out of town at that time. And I drove Omar to the mosque and off of Atlantic Avenue. And we go in there and it's packed to the nines because it's holidays. Everybody's out of school and whatnot. It is packed.

And I ended up in the back somewhere near the radiator or something, and I'm just like squish. And they start the prayer again, and suddenly immediately, I'm like, just crying. I'm like, dang, what is going on? And I was just thinking, I didn't know enough about the faith at that time. I knew some real basics. But I remember thinking about how I grew up and they would open the doors to the church. And I was like, I don't think they do that in Islam. And they don't.

And I remember making the prayer. I finished. And this guy, who's probably around my age, he turns to me. And I'm separated from Omar. It was so packed, we couldn't even stand together. Like, I don't know where Omar is. And this brother turns to me, and he goes, are you Muslim? I said, no.

He goes, do you want to be? I was like, yeah. A long story short, he stops me and he goes up to the imam and he whispers something in his ear and everyone just stops and, you know, brings me up. And, you know, asked me, was that true? And I was like, yeah. And he, you know, all praise do to God and God is the greatest. And, like, you know, there's people like, you know, kind of celebrating a moment.

And then I took what's called my shahada. just my declaration of faith. And he's like, you're Muslim now. He's like, okay. I was like, okay. I mean, that's where the work starts. But like, and then Omar, he was just crying his eyes out. He was like, oh, you have so many chances.

You have so many chances. And so, yeah, so now I'm here playing a Muslim in a movie. You know, with a sword. People, we're talking about. Your Mother, Your Mother, Your Mother, which Craig and I, we started talking about at the top of the podcast, how it impacted us. You know, a beautiful story. The young actress who plays your daughter. Adia.

From D.C. Talk a bit about it. Describe what the movie is. The film is, bear with me, but it's about a man who recently widowed. who is on the urgent search for breast milk for his daughter. And while he's on the search for this breast milk for his daughter, he is being hunted. And my character happens to be a hitman.

And so the way that the film moves, the way that he's trying to protect his children, his three children, because he has two, he has a teenage daughter, or a young son around 10 or 11 and an infant. But he's trying to protect his children and get his infant daughter what she needs

while he's also essentially under duress and under attack throughout the film and trying to sort of get them all to a place of safety. Yeah, there is nothing like it because the depth of story, the complexity of this situation, You know, the questioning of religion and faith. Of his own faith.

Period. Yes. Right? Is deeper than just an action movie. You know, not to, as you was, no dis to action movies. No dis to action movies. But, you know, there is depth and story here. I started watching it and I was not prepared for how much, how complex it was.

Right. I was not ready for that. Or the butt-whoopery. Right. The butt-wop-wop-weree was excellent. See, we're just the opposite. I usually do not like butt-wop-wop-wop-wop-wop-wop-wop-wop-wopery. I do not like seeing people get hit in the face.

Yes. You know, I just don't enjoy it. When Craig was like, you're not going to like this, but you went. I told her. You're not going to like it, but you're going to like it. And he was absolutely correct. Is there a reason you chose to do this particular film? I think the breadth of that character and what he is asked to do with that family experiences,

I think the heart and point of that story. And to go back to the action element, I've been like really, really, really deeply wanting to do something that, yeah. I've got to be in a few films that had the action element to it. If we put Jurassic aside, because I almost don't count that, it's more of an adventure story. And you're like some old man in that, that is not you. It's like, you look like somebody's uncle. There you go.

But like with that aside, I'm not, I didn't get to, everything I've been in that's had the action element to it, my characters honestly have died before the action started. Or it just to the action. Right, right. I died now. I'm mocking Jason. Right. Or like, you know, one of the old job.

The first person dies, the black guy. That happened to predators almost. Right. So, you know, I hadn't got to do it yet. So being, I guess, a former athlete, there was this element where I almost assumed at some point that is just, that's going to happen. So that would just be part of my journey as well. I felt I would probably have to fight against that. Yes.

You know, because quickly once you do something in the business, then so often it can be like that's, what you do, right? Pigeonhole, yeah. And so I almost assume that that would naturally be something that I would end up probably doing and I just have never done it. You know, I have to ask you about the toughness of black actors finding things like your mother, your mother, your mother that are, that this was written for you. Yeah.

Aside from this, but how hard is it for you to find stuff to do prior to you? prior to you hitting it big and now that you've sort of won a couple of Academy Awards. My sister hates when I ask those pre-step questions. No, that's a good question. I think it would almost be like, it's very challenging, finding,

being a coach, finding the systems that support your talents. It's a difficult balance to strike because I also have a family, you know, and I also have a child and I have... Got to eat. Responsibility.

You know, and so I think it's, we're not, we're not the first who they think of. It's just not. We're not centered in the business in that way. I mean, ask an actor like Viola Davis. Come on. There's not a lot of people better than her, you know? And it's taken her a very long time to get certain opportunities. And I still don't know if she gets the opportunities that she's really worthy of.

But she had to dunk on you from the free throw line. and eight minutes in doubt to give like a shot, you know? Like, you got to turn, I always say you got to turn water in the wine and they don't usually give you a vineyard as a result to turn in water in the wine. They just give you another glass of water. And so... That's a bar.

Yeah. And so I, I'm grateful for knowing what it is, though. I know what it is now. And I just do the best I can to be patient. One place I would go back to tomorrow is Paris. I loved how you could spend the morning walking around these quiet little side streets, have an incredible savory crepe for lunch, and then suddenly you're in the middle of this huge, bright, bustling city at night.

And being a big food person when I travel, I want to try whatever that city does best. Find that out-of-the-way neighborhood spot, maybe order something I've never had before. Paris is the ideal place for that. I could spend a month there and still feel like I barely scratched the surface. Trips like that always make me think about how much of the world I still want to see. Of course, the only problem with having a long travel wish list is eventually somebody has to pay for it,

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Even with the sun coming up later, I'm not dragging by the time I'm out the door. Go to drinkag1.com slash IMO, and for a limited time, get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3K2, with your first subscription order of AG1 NextGen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com slash IMO. I feel like every year I tell myself, I'll get ahead of the holidays. I'm going to have the gifts figured out, the decorations up, everything handled nice and early. and then somehow the holidays still sneak up on me.

So this year, I'm starting early, and it's so, so easy to do it with Amazon. All year, I've been making little notes for myself about what I think each of my friends and family might want. And that's trickier for some than others. Like, I have maybe 10 ideas written down for Kelly, but only one or two for my sister. I think she'd like a Kendall,

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stands about the Muslim religion. Because I think your mother, your mother, your mother also seeks to give people a broader understanding. I mean, the movie is, it's a meshing, you know, it points to the commonalities of our faith. I think films like this help, but I just, you know, want to know your thoughts on helping people understand what they get wrong about the religion. Your mother, your mother, your mother is essentially, you could say like a Muslim gospel, a hadith, a saying of the Prophet Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him,

where someone had come to him and asked them who we should hold dearest to our heart, who should we love the most? And his response was your mother. and then the brother says well then who and he says again your mother he says well then who he says your mother he goes oh wow he goes and then your father the love and respect we are to have for women is paramount to the point where it could be the difference between you go into heaven or not going to heaven one of the other sayings in Islam is heaven is at the feet of your mother.

So you've got to be good to your mother. You have to be good to women. You have to uphold and protect women. And people don't always uphold that. That would be dishonest if I said that. But what the faith actually teaches, what the Holy Prophet actually teaches, peace be upon them, is the utmost respect for women.

How is your partnership a part of your, strength and your faith. How do you think about your partnership with the mother of your beautiful daughter? One of the first things that I just remember about her. I just had a vibe and a sense and a feeling when I saw her. I just developed such a respect

for how she moved through the world and what she was about as a person, human being, an artist, her tastes, her likes and dislikes, her boundaries, the things that she loved, the things that she was attracted to, that there is all like an education to me. And I think she, like, deepened me in a certain way, just being in proximity to somebody like that

and exposed me to so much that I think allowed me to grow. Well, we usually try to make IMO about helping people. And we, this is probably a good time to go to the listener question because that also elicits some more conversations and insights. So if you ready, we'll take the listener question now. How do I balance a creative life against all the demands of everyday reality? I recently graduated college and am struggling with the fact that it's hard for me to find the time for creative outlets in particular, but also just my social life and all the things that. that make me feel like me. I'm juggling two jobs and an internship

and feel like there's no way for me to find time for more fulfilling things. How do you find fulfillment, especially artistically, but really in any way when it feels like you can hardly catch a breath from one day to the next. This is Riley, who's 21 in New Jersey.

Thank you for the question, Riley. If I could speak to specifically to finding fulfillment creatively, I would encourage you to allow your relationship, at least for this period of time, to creativity, and maybe even to all things to change a bit. But let me speak specifically to creativity. That I think we all aspirationally or all aspire

to be able to in some ways do exactly what we want when we want to do it. And I think the realities around life or that it rarely permits that in some way. So a different sort of discipline has to, a muscle has to sort of develop where you have to look at your own life and look at the time allotted to you and the time that you can create for your creativity, speaking specifically to that, to have time to breathe.

So say you want an hour, but you're only permitted 10 minutes. So if you were a screenwriter, let's say, and you know you need an hour or two a day to work on your writing, you don't have an hour or two a day. But I bet you got 10 minutes. And in that 10 minutes, you make it about writing a moment in a scene, opposed to finishing an entire scene that day. you might only have time to work a moment or to get another line out. And it becomes like putting pennies in the bank where you're just putting a little bit of time in and a little bit of time in. And the most important thing is that you're consistent about that. And over time, over a month, you'll see that, wow, I've written 10 scenes.

In that 10 minutes a day that I gave myself to work on this script, to work on this story, I was able to write 10 scenes. And you'll be able to read those 10 scenes. And then if you keep going, you'll have 20 scenes at a certain point. And if you keep going eventually within a year, you have written a full script by only having 10 minutes a day. And what I would say to Riley is if you're a creative, be a creative. You're young. You don't have to be a pharmaceutical salesperson. You don't have to be any.

You have time. to do what you want to do now before you have all these responsibilities. We used to call it, my friends and I used to call it, being on the treadmill. You get on that treadmill, it's hard to get off. Use this time now and spend all your time on being creative and get your internship somewhere else so you can do this full time. And in five years, you'll be working somewhere, in the industry.

So hopefully. Hopefully that helps Riley. Well, we, I can't tell you how much we appreciate you being here. Thank you for having me. Great getting to speak with you. I know. This is so, real honor. Thank you so much.

So good. Big fans and big fans of you as a human being, you know, making me cry. People got to go see your mother, your mother, your mother, though. Oh, they, they will. Yeah, absolutely. We agree. It was a joy to work on that show.

Yeah, and you were amazing. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And on all the things. Thank you. Thank you for being here, baby. I'm Molly Graham, host of work life, a podcast from TED. The most important lessons about work usually aren't the ones anyone teaches you.

They come from experience, from uncertainty, from figuring things out as you go. On this show, my expert guests, and I explore how careers really unfold. Through change, through doubt, through the decisions that shape who we become over time. Because those moments aren't the exception. They are the work. Listen to work life wherever you get your podcasts.