IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson - You Need to Fight for Friendship with Julia Louis Dreyfus

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Legendary actress and comedian Julia Louis-Dreyfus joins the podcast to discuss the importance of building community in adulthood. Michelle talks about how she’s approaching life in her 60s, the surprising strategy she used to maintain her friendships while in the White House, and Julia shares the women who inspire her most. Plus, the group answers a listener's question about finding adult friends at every stage in life. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This stage in life for me, for me personally, is the first time that I've been completely free. Yeah, there's a real release. Where every choice that I make in my life is not about my husband, not about his career, not about what my kids need or where they're going. It's totally about me. This episode is brought to you by Pinesall and Chase Home Lending. Hey, you? Hi, Craig Robinson. And how's it going?

It's going well, Mish. How you doing? I'm doing pretty good. I'm digging that aqua. This is one of my favorite pieces. Yeah, yeah. It looks like, you know, you'd wear that pulling up in some hot shot ride or something. Yeah, well, I've been tooling around in my Rivian R1S here in L.A.

And, well, it's actually not my. Rivian has been kind enough to gift us with vehicles. But when I'm here, I've driven a loner that I'm just falling in love with it every single time I get in it. But listen, we've had a great conversation about friendship. Oh, yeah, today. Today we're going to talk about. But today we're going to talk about friendships as we age. Ah, okay.

And I was finding it hard when I was sort of researching this topic and thinking about it. being a guy in a committed relationship, I never thought that when you're in a committed relationship, there's the potential of still being lonely. Yeah, yeah. Because, of course, I still have little kids at home, so I'm running around chasing them. But, you know, it's a phenomenon.

Yeah, and I think it's particularly true with women. Maybe it's the nature of men and women and how they, you know, sort of, maneuver in the world, but I have a number of female friends in relationships who, you know, but for their outside friendships would perhaps feel lonely within their relationships. And I don't want to generalize, but their men's habits are different. Sometimes they don't want to chit-chat. They don't want to catch up. So I have a lot of friends who, you know, they love their partners, but they, you know, find their friendships and relationships

outside of that unit. But I don't know if you experience that among your friends. You know, I think what I perceive and what's actually happening now is making me think there is a gap there because I'm like most, I'm like a guy. I'm the kind of guy who is assuming everything is going fine until somebody says, oh, you know what? My wife and I are getting divorced or, you know,

my wife's telling me she's lonely and I don't know what to do. I haven't had that happen. But I can... People can be lonely inside of very healthy relationships. If you don't share the same hobbies in common, if you have different temperaments, even different life patterns. And throughout my life, especially now that I'm getting older,

I work very hard to maintain my relationships with my friends, whether we live in the same city or not. maybe living in the White House and being in a position that was pretty isolating, right? You know, not too many people can walk up to my door and knock on it and say just dropping by for a cup of tea, right? So as a result, you know, people couldn't have our phone numbers. They couldn't for security reasons. So there was a wall between me and my friends that was real. And as a result, I got into the habit of making sure that I was continuously reaching out, finding ways to bring people in, planning events, planning trips with my friends because absent me doing that work, it was just really hard for a friend to call me over those eight years and say, hey, girl, want to, you know, go to the movies or you want to go on a trip with me.

But I found that that habit has served me well now that I'm in my 60s, and I can even foresee how beneficial that is as I get even older. Because my friends and I, we just have a routine of how we connect, no matter where we are in the world. We have habits, routines, rituals that we do amongst ourselves. And even with our daughters as they get older, or with our kids as they get older that has helped us sustain our relationships. But a lot of people haven't invested that kind of time.

Yeah. And I've all, I mean, you're so good at keeping your friendships close and inviting people in. Well, we're going to talk a lot about a relatable relationship, friendship, friendship questions today. And we've got a fantastic guest. We have both been excited about this. Yes. I think anybody with a brain would be excited about our next guest. And I'm talking about Julia Louis Dreyfuss and she's an Emmy Award winning actress and comedian known for her roles in Veep and Seinfeld, of course.

But Julia is currently hosting a popular podcast. Very popular podcast. called Wiser than me. And I'm excited to hear about that too. But I have so many a varied number of questions that we might get off topic. But we'll have to rein it back in. Because you're really fan girl in here. I'm really excited about that.

So without any further ado, Julia, come join us. Oh, there she is. Hey. So happy you can be here. I'm so happy to be here. I am so delighted to be here. And I'm sure you don't remember this, Michelle, but I went to a soul cycle class with you. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I went through my deep soul cycle phase. You did. You were kind of an addict. I was. I was. Yeah. Yeah. And we went right around the White House. That's right.

So how did you find your soul cycle? And had you been doing soul cycle? No, I had never done it before. I do other things to work out, but I hadn't done soul cycle. Yeah. Didn't care for it. But I was happy to try it. It's an acquired taste. It is, in fact. Yeah, it is. I think she's the only one in our family who liked doing it. Yeah, I went through. I'm like that with activities, you know.

It's like potato chips. I can't just eat one. Once I, you know, link into something, I'm like all in. Do you like to hike? I do, but I don't hike as much as I did just like I don't do Soul Cycle as much. I've had to vary as I've gotten older. Yeah. my workouts because they mess up the body in certain ways.

You really have to differentiate. Yeah. You got to diversify. So tell us about Wiser than Me. Are you having fun? Yeah. It's really, you know, the genesis of it was that I saw this movie, this documentary with Jane Fonda about her life. You guys probably saw that.

I saw that one. And I was so struck by the breadth of her life. profundity if she's been done so many different things. And I got me thinking about, wow, there's so many women out there that are older. Yeah. I mean, at the time she was 85, I believe, that are older that have had these extraordinary lives and we're not hearing from them. That's right. So I wanted, so I was like, I need to, oh, I've got to find a podcast that talks to those women. Of course, there wasn't one. So then I just started to do it. And it's really taken off. So it's nice. And it's an opportunity for talk about friendships. It's an opportunity. I've made some real friends doing this, including Jane, by the way.

So we're doing a lot of sort of political, environmental activism together now as a result of this, which is great. Yeah, I think the concept is beautiful and it's necessary. We talk about this a lot, how women as we age, we get pushed out of the picture. Yeah, it's incredible. Right when we're, you know, now that I'm 60, this is really. the first time in my life where I feel completely me, and I can absolutely embrace my wisdom. Yes. I mean, because I think we as women, we spend most of our lives saying, well, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. We qualify everything.

We apologize. We apologize. We don't want to put our opinions on the table because maybe we're wrong. We're always hedging, you know, because in the back of our minds, we weren't raised with the certainty of maleness that, you know, kind of the confidence that young men in their 30s have, which they haven't earned, they just have it. We don't start feeling that and owning that until our 50s and 60s at a time when we start to be treated as invisible in society. And the notion that you are capturing that wisdom in a systematic way is powerful. Yeah, I think it's critical for.

for both, for the culture generally. It's not just for women, it's for men. Frankly, we're just missing an opportunity. I mean, these women are, I think of them as being on the front lines of life, and they can report back to us what they've seen and what we should or should not be doing. And as people, not as just as female people,

but as people. So I am thrilled to do it. It's a lot of work because I want to come to the table really well-versed in what they've done and who they are. And we're talking to scientists and novelists and, you know, everybody. And I'm learning a lot as I go. Yeah. This may be an unfair question. What's one of the most fascinating things you've learned in this process from one of these women?

or a couple of things that you would say have stuck with you? No is a complete answer is something that stayed with me. I'm sure you've heard that before, but it sure is a meaningful sentence. And particularly as women, we are sort of, our culture indoctrines us to put a caveat onto a no. I know I should, but I can't, you know, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, women, we have so many landmines and barriers and don'ts and limitations. It's, you know, I mean, Craig, you're the guy at the table, but I think it's important for all guys listening, especially men raising daughters,

to realize that difference, you know, and that thing that inadvertently, as you are loving, and raising these beautiful girls. There are so many rules that make us small. Baked in without our knowing it, you know. And I wish I can, I mean, well, I remember people saying, oh, well, she's a female doctor. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

As opposed to just she's a doctor. Mm-hmm. You know. No, this is good. We have to remember this for the next time you're here to talk about that topic. But we're here to talk about friendship and moment. loneliness as older adults. As we get older in life.

As we get older in life. And we have a really good question today talking about sort of being an adult and having this very vibrant friend life that all of a sudden is not there anymore. And I found this topic really interesting. And I think now is a good time to have Natalie, our producer, read the question. And then we can dive in. Yeah. Natalie. This episode of IMO is sponsored by Chase Home Lending, committed to supporting you all the way home with smart digital home buying tools and resources. Chase Home Lending is dedicated to helping individuals and families achieve their dream of home ownership.

They offer expert guidance throughout the home buying journey, helping customers navigate the process with confidence. This brings me back to a time when we grew up living upstairs from my aunt in a two-family home that she owned and we rented. And it was a wonderful time, but being a renter, we had to be extremely careful of what we did. For example, we had to be quiet at a certain time. We couldn't play on the front lawn. My sister couldn't have a dog. And we didn't realize the importance of being a homeowner until, we got late in life. We always would talk to our dad about why we don't own a home, and he talked about

being house poor. Little did we know that homeownership was a great way to build equity. My sister and I ended up buying our own homes later in life, and we used that to help pay for our kids college. And that is a way where home ownership can lead to future success. Chase Home Lend, offers personalized support, expert knowledge, and access to valuable resources, helping home buyers navigate the complexities of getting a mortgage. Their guidance ensures buyers find a financial fit and make informed decisions. Visit chase.com slash start to see how Chase can support your homeownership journey. Member FDIC, Equal Housing Opportunity.

This episode of IMO is brought to you by KolaGard, a national. non-invasive colon cancer screening tests. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know that colon cancer can be treatable in nine out of 10 people. But the key here is that it has to be caught early. With the Kologar test, you can take control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription-based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. Not only is the Kolargarde test effective

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bowel disease, and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Kolargardeau. test is not a replacement for colonoscopy and high-risk patients. Coligard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Coligard is available by prescription only. We're so thrilled that Pinesaw is a partner of IMO. Pinesaw has been connected to our family forever. To this day, whenever my sister and I catch the scent of Pine Saul, we automatically feel better about life. The smell of Pine Saul has always taken us back to our

childhood home. It is amazing how smells can transport you to a place or a moment in time. Another smell that takes me back is Cherry Blossoms, which always remind me of visiting Michelle in D.C. That's why I'm excited for Pine Soll's newest scent, Cherry Blossom. The cleaning power you know and love from Pinesaw is available in a new scent this spring. Cherry Blossom, which is light and fresh and leaves a lasting floral scent while eliminating tough dirt, grease, and grind. You can use Pinesaw Cherry Blossom, multi-surface cleaner to help deodorize and clean hard, non-porous surfaces, including floors, sinks, counters, stoves, bathtubs, shower stalls, and more. Visit pinesaw.com to find where to shop pine sailsol multi-surface cleaner in the new fresh cherry blossom scent. Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Andrea and I'm 40 years old. My mom Sharon is 68 years old and has always had a

meaningful and wide circle of friends, friends from high school and college and friends she made while she and my dad raised my sister and me. She also had an extensive social network through my dad. colleagues. He was a college professor at a university in Texas, and the campus brought them many close friendships. Friends they'd shared dinner parties with, join on weekend trips, and seen nearly every morning for the run club on campus. My mom was also fortunate to be close with her own co-workers at her job in the college admissions office. But a little over a year ago, my dad retired, and they moved back to North Carolina, where they both grew up. My sister and I stayed in Texas, I think I saw this coming, but when I talked to my mom recently, she admitted she felt like

she'd lost nearly every friend she'd ever made. I know she'd already experienced some strain on her friendships in Texas, whether due to retirements or illness or divorce, but this big move means all the social structures that once supported her friendships have vanished, and with them her connection to her cherished communities. So my question. question is, how can my mom reframe her thinking around friendship during this pretty radically new chapter in her own life? Whether that be gaining enthusiasm for making new friends in North Carolina, or maintaining connections to her old friends without the help of built-in community and networks. As her daughter, I am especially concerned with helping her to answer this question because of a fear

she revealed to me that I really hadn't seen coming. She told me she's actually feeling a brand new resistance to connecting with people because she knows that eventually more life change will just lead to more friendship loss. How can I help my mom in her new feelings of loneliness and maybe reinvigorate her desire to make new friends in this brand new stage of life? Thanks for your thoughts, Andrea. There's a lot to unpack in that question. And can I dive in? Please, please. I mean, there is so much going on there. She's obviously, this is a woman who wrote that, right? Her daughter.

Right. She is obviously a very devoted daughter. So to begin with, it brings up the idea of getting older and starting to parent your own parents. Oh, yes. Which I've certainly been through and am going through, and I know you guys have as well. And that's an amazing flipperoo that you never anticipate. When you're younger, it doesn't even occur to you that all of a sudden, you know, she's worried about her mom making friends. Isn't it usually your mom's worried about you making friends?

Exactly. So that's an incredible thing. But I see it as very surmountable. You know, we recently lost our home in this horrible L.A. fire. And so our community is gone. Yeah. Ghana, where we raised our children. And so I'm sort of wrestling with the same thing.

Yeah. And what I'm finding is that if the focus is not necessarily meeting a friend, which has kind of a, I'm not saying it's a bad focus. But it's a different stressor. It feels a little oppressive, right? Yeah, it's like you're, yeah, it's you're putting pressure on yourself. And maybe if the focus is, and this is what I'm trying to do, getting involved in community where you are, you will find your people. That's what I think. Certainly that's what I'm trying to do as we kind of work I worry through this moment.

And my own parents recently went through the same thing that this woman's parents went through. That is to say they moved into a new community. And it was hard for them. But particularly my mom became involved in this garden community. And, I mean, there's something about taking action that can open up doors, I think. You're absolutely right. One of the other things I hear in this question is, that makes me kind of sad. But something to tie into is that the listener's mother has expressed a fear and a hesitation around the possibility of building new community because of the potential for loss.

And I think that's worth her daughter, their family, trying to unpack a little bit, right? Because it is completely right that building community is the focus. But if you're afraid of that, if the very thought of, you know, doing that work and taking that kind of action makes you afraid because you could lose something. Yes. Oh, it's like, well, then you're, you could be stuck. Yeah. And, you know, it's part of friendship is taking that risk of loss.

And it doesn't change because we're older. In fact, that's always the case with friendship, you know? It's always the case with friendship, but I think specific to, aging, you will lose folks as you are going to lose them. Naturally. That's just. That's a part of it. It's a part of it.

And it stinks. I know. And I'm not quite there yet, but we're headed there. Yeah. God willing, in a weird way. Yeah, yeah. Maybe doing a deep dive into that fear is probably worth it for her mom to do. I had to, probably in my position as first lady.

just as an object point for the listener mother. I mean, one could have argued that there was every reason in the world for me in that position, me and my husband, to be afraid of making new friends, right? Yeah, very good point. You sort of think about it. In fact, I know one of the things that Craig said when Barack ran and won, you may want to share that was... No new friends.

Right. You said don't make new friends? I said that to Mish and Barack. I was like, watch out, and I couldn't have been more wrong. Right. Oh, but that's fascinating. Yes. Because the automatic feeling, which would be natural, is you got to watch who you associate with in this position.

And you don't know what their intentions are. Precisely. You know, so I understood the sentiment of the warning and as my big brother, you know. And we came from a already big established community. So it wasn't like we were going into this thing. Without a support, right? Yeah. But the difference for me was that I still had little kids, right?

I mean, my girls were 10 and 7 moving into a new neighborhood, a new community. And my whole goal was to normalize their experience to not make them feel like these odd little kids with secret service that were outsiders, which meant that I couldn't. I didn't have the luxury of saying, no. new friends, right? Because when you're raising your kids, you have to be a part of a bigger community that they're in. Yeah, otherwise you're screwed. Otherwise, you're screwed. Right. Exactly the way it was. So that push, that necessity was the absolute best thing, you know, leaning into that fear, into that caution. It was the best thing that I did for myself and for my family. And my point to the listener that I learned is that it was absolutely worth it. And it was

probably a very scary experience because it was not only, we not only faced the risk of loss disappointment, but we could have met people who were men us no good, who we couldn't trust, who, you know, gossiped about us, who, you know, sold stories. There were many things that could have gone wrong. Right. But the truth is, is that most people are really good folks. Yeah. You know, even when you're in a high-powered position, most people, you know, most people are open to the new. And I would say, too, in that circumstance, you're there, you're sort of looking at the community where your children are going to school.

You need to get to know these parents as a parent. You must. And so your goal is not necessarily going in it to make friends. Your goal is to understand where they are. And then out of that comes relationships that you could count on. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty interesting, actually. It's like fame on steroids.

Exactly. It really is. Yeah. Because I had a, I've had that, on a much smaller scale, same kind. You know, when you're a famous person, it's weird getting out there sometimes. And people approach you and you're not sure what their intentions are about. So if there's a way to, I don't know what, through an action, through a community, where there's sort of common ground as there was at school, for example.

I mean, I don't know how your husband did it. Well, he was dragged into it along with me because he also had the barrier of no time, right? I mean, but in the face of that because of my focus and determination and his interest. It was like, no, you've got to go to parent-teacher conference. And he wanted to go. It's like, even if you don't have to go, you have to go. Right. You know, you have to get the school normalized to you being the type of engaged parent that you were before election night.

That's right. And you were the father that went to parent-teacher conference. Right. You were the father that would coach your girls' basketball game league. Right. And he did. I know he did. But all of this is to say.

to our listener for her mother is it's worth the risk. People will be waiting out there with open arms. People are kinder, even though it doesn't feel that way these days. I've been in our country, and I've been in every angle of it, and it doesn't change overnight. And the vast majority of American people are good people. Yeah, and they want to connect. They want to connect. And connection. It is the answer. Yeah. It is the answer. Yeah.

I love that. I love that. Yeah. I also want to address a little bit because Andrea is trying to help Sharon navigate this. To your point, the daughter becoming the mother. Tell me about it. But the husband is still there. And I think.

Yeah, totally lost him. I know. I know. Oopsie. I know. Sorry. That's why I'm here. Sorry, sir.

She's not a widow. She's not a widow. Although it sort of sounds like she is. But that's my point. That's my point. I mean, this community shouldn't just be her community. Tell me about it. He should be trying to help out.

Way to bring the male voice. And I'm just saying this because when we were talking about this, this was such a foreign concept to me. As a man. Just the kind of guy that I am that I would want, first I would want to know. know that my wife is suffering from this loneliness. Because if we up and moved to North Carolina, I'd be trying to find somebody to play hoops with or golf with or go to the cigar store with or, you know, whatever. Yeah.

I wouldn't be trying to help her get inserted in the community. But I think that should be a team effort as opposed to just an individual. Yeah. And she has a partner. So it's time for her partner to step up. Yeah. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Indeed. Are you starting to think about the next step in your career?

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and for sponsoring our show. Visit progressive.com slash open the house to learn more. So that's some advice that we could give, Andrea, is talk to your dad. Talk to your dad. Talk to your dad. Get your dad involved in this too. It's like, where is he? Where's dad?

Yeah. Is he, you know, is he? sitting in the chair doing the same thing over and over and over again? Or is he trying to think of ways for them to creatively connect together and then in their community? Great, great point. Yeah. Craig. I appreciate it.

Robinson. So do you think that you, in your marriage, have you focused on... We're not at a point. But think ahead. But think ahead. Well, I'm thinking, all right, I'll think ahead because we're not at a point now. We're so busy. Around the corner, there, those two are going to be gone.

But when the kids get old enough to go to college. How old are the youngest ones again? 15 and 13. So we got six years, six years. And six years will be empty nesters. And our plan is to figure out the most optimal place to be where we can enjoy them the most. Yep, that's smart. But we're not going to, we're not planning on jettising our friends because we're empty nesters.

And I, I've always thought you all do a great job of that with your friends because your girls are grown and you intentionally get together with your friends on a regular basis. Yeah, you have to be intentional. Yes. Yeah. I do the same thing. But I have advice for you from when your kids, when the younger kids leave in five years, not six, by the way. Yeah, five and a half. Yeah, you're right.

But anyway, what I want to tell you is you just make sure that after they leave, all the sheets on their bed are high-quality sheets. And that bed is the most comfortable bed they ever slept in their life. And they'll always come back. I'm actually not kidding you. That's true. No, no. Barack and I, we are all about creating what we call the attractive nuisance. Thank you.

We just, we want to make it so that you want to be back. here. And we're starting, they're old enough now, right? Because there's that period when they just leave in their early 20s and they're just like, bye. See you. We're living our lives and we're so happy to be sleeping on a dirty mattress and in college. And they're just now getting to the point where they hang around just a little, a couple of days longer because the tub is clean, right? Yeah, that's right. And they're bath salts. Their bath salts, they smell good and There's a lot of stuff in their fridge. That's right. That's what they say.

And there's food we can actually eat. I like the Sheets idea, though. That's a tricky one because they wouldn't necessarily figure that out. They get used to the foulness. That's right. Julia, I want to ask you a question. What are some of the strategies that you use to keep your friends? Who are your friends?

Well, I've got friends from different sections of my life, right? We travel a lot together. Yeah, yeah. And my group of friends from elementary school, we try to have a reunion once a year, somewhere. We all get together. And it's so funny, you become, it's like you're 12 again. We start howling, laughing over the dumbest things you ever heard of in your life.

And so I make, particularly nowadays, I'm making a real effort to have adventures with these people. Yeah, travel is a great. good thing. We do a lot of that stuff. You know, joining crafts, taking up hobbies with your friends, trying some, you know, so you don't, not anybody. What hobbies have you taken up? What crafts? Well, you know, we've had, I've had girlfriends who have organized some Zumba classes, some hip-hop classes that we've said to do more of, you know. So I'm saying to our listeners, Sharon, you know, some of the ideas, it's like, you know, you can get your girls together for, from around the country to try a new thing.

You know, they can come and visit you and you set up a cooking class. Uh-huh. Or you learn how to knit or you take up tennis. Right now, several of my girlfriends have gotten into playing tennis. And we don't always get to play together. But when we are together, now that there are many who are taking lessons and taken up the sport, we'll go find a court, we'll hit, you know, and that has become a, a bonding opportunity. By the way, you know, tennis I heard is supposed to be so good for aging. Did you

hear that? I've heard, yeah, I've heard it. It has something to do with the, it's the mind eye coordination. I'm not sure exactly. And also the lateral movement as well as the pounding. Yep. But, and I can't say anything more than that, but anyway, do it. Yeah, yeah. Just do it. Well, the, the advice is that, you know, learning something new. Correct. Your friends or with The new group of people, that's another, if we're talking about ideas that we have for building community, new community, or sustaining old community. That's, you know, I mean, a lot of my friends, we just figure out something new. We want to learn. We want to try and we do it together.

It's more fun to do it together. But intentionality is, as you mentioned, Julia, is a word for the day. And if Sharon goes to her new place and she sits in her fear and her lonely, and she says, and she bemoans what she lost. Yeah. And doesn't think about ways of viewing this as a new opportunity to stay open and to meet new people and not to focus on the possibility of loss. There are so many ways to break out and not be alone.

That's right. I think we live in a culture nowadays, and it's not just older people, but unfortunately, younger folks who have, you know, know, live through COVID. They've gotten too attached to their phones. They live online. I mean, this is why studies are showing that we're seeing unprecedented levels of loneliness and anxiety because we've gotten out of the habit of building friends, building community, or the understanding that as humans, that's something that we need.

We need each other. Yeah, it is not a luxury. Yeah, right, exactly. It's a necessity. Right. Our phones are not a necessity. Our phones are a luxury. Right. And they cannot replace the thing that community and friendship provides to us, regardless of the age, but especially as we get older. You know, and because we know that we're going to experience loss, that that's the end of the story, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I would want Sharon to keep that muscle of community building. active. Yes. Because it is a muscle. You know, if you get out of the habit of starting a new, learning something new, you know, that's what's ahead of me. I'm 61. And all I'm thinking about in the future is what new things am I going to learn. What are you going to learn? You know, right now I'm focused on tennis. Yes. You know, I don't know. Maybe I'll go back to the piano one day. It was an instrument that I started to play as a little girl, haven't touched it

since then. But maybe, maybe I'll find the time to start taking lessons, you know. I'm doing tennis, too. My husband gave me tennis lessons for my birthday, so I'm going to do, I'm going to do that. And I'm taking French lessons now. Okay. Yeah. From scratch had you ever I know. I do know some French, but I'm trying to like take it up a level now. That's my goal. Oh, I hope I can do it. Yeah. But all these new activities for Sharon are an opportunity, especially if you do them in groups. If you sign up for a tennis clinic, you're going to meet somebody. Totally. I would just say, don't do things in isolation. In solo. Yeah. You know, take some classes, go into community. Yes. Join a gym. And as we get older, we should embrace the fact that we have more time. I mean, we aren't parenting our kids anymore. They are parenting us. We're not worrying about whether they're getting home on time or whether they did their homework.

I mean, this stage in life for me, for me personally, is the first time that I've been completely free. Yeah, there's a real release. Where every choice that I make in my life is not about my husband, not about his career, not about what my kids. need or where they're going, it's totally about me. And Sharon, you know, if she thinks about it like that, wow, she's got a new freedom. She's starting over in a new city. There's so much to learn and to see and to do. It's like this is when we start living ladies. Yeah. This is the age when we're free. Yeah. Well, you both have talked about maintaining. have either of you, Julia, have you or Mish, have you lost any friends at the stage?

Have you, and if so, what are some strategies on how to bounce back from that? Well, it sort of depends on what the circumstances are. I mean, I've lost friends, I've had a couple friends die, and that has been devastating because it was just truly unfair of the universe. So I'd like to lodge a complaint. So that's just a lot of grief to reconcile. And grief is sort of a separate, I mean, grief from actual loss of life is its own thing.

But then I've also lost friends because, we sort of moved on. Yeah. And there's something kind of freeing about that. You know, a couple of relationships that were a little bit toxic had me doubting myself too much and head games and stuff. And there was a moment in which it was like, oh, yeah, right, I don't have to do this anymore. Yeah, yeah.

And how about you? Oh, for sure, for sure, both, both and. You know, and I've experienced loss of friends throughout my life. I mean, one of my best friends from college died suddenly of lymphoma, you know, at the tender age of 20 in our 20s, you know. And, you know, that's a, like you said, that's a different kind of loss than losing your grandmother or losing, you know, someone in their natural order. Yeah.

And I think for me, that loss woke me up at a time in life when I was just starting to define myself as a young adult and a young professional. That was the time in my life where I thought, well, what am I doing with my life, right? Right. She lost hers, and there was no reason she was one of the sweetest, kindest people that I ever knew. So it made me think, well, do I really want to finish out this life on the 47th floor? as an associate in a big corporate law firm. Sounds fabulous. Is that my fate?

Is that why I'm left here and she? And the answer to that was, nah, there's got to be something more, you know. And what am I afraid of? And that decision as a result of that loss opened my eyes to not the nonprofit world, city government, public service, you know. So that loss turned out to be one of the things that provided me with the foundation of who I am.

Yes. But there are definitely the friendships that, like you said, Julia, just sort of ran their course. That's okay. And as I age, I am more grateful every day of the friendships that I've invested in and maintained. Yeah. They are my lifeblood. And I love my husband and we are dear friends. But we don't do the same things all the time.

We have different interests. And I think that's healthy. It is completely healthy. You know, and we have wonderful times apart, and we travel differently, and he'll go off with his friends in golf, and I'll hike a mountain, which he's not going to do. You know, definitely not. So I would hope that for Sharon and her husband, that it becomes even more important. with him alive, that they continue to build together and separately.

By the way, they're still young. 68? 68. Yeah, really. Come on. Not even 70. It's like, that's not the time to tap out. No, do not tap out.

Too much. This is just the beginning, you know? It only gets better. Well, just for clarity, for Andrea. Yes, yes. Let's give Andrea some strategies to take back to Sharon. And the biggest one I'm hearing is your community, right? I actually think she should start by talking to her dad.

Okay. That was on my list too, but that was down further. Bring that into the conversation. Bring dad into this situation. This is not her burden alone. Yeah. But community, community, community. Surely she has some interests that they can cultivate.

She was a professor, correct? Do I get that right? I think her husband was. The husband is the professor. But she was a professional. She was a professional and she worked at the university. So she's got interest. The second thing I would say is intentionality.

It's like friendship and community doesn't happen on its own. I don't care who you are or how wonderful a person you are, whether you're shy or outgoing. Friendship requires intentionality. That's right. Planning, scheduling, prioritizing. All of it has to be a part of it. It is, it does take work. Say yes. Say yes. Say yes.

Well, you know, this has been really helpful for me. And I hope it's helpful for Andrea and Sharon. Yeah. Thank you, Julia. It's great spending time with you. It's so nice to spend time. You are a wise woman. Wysish. Wiseish. Wiser than most. Thank you guys. All right. Thank you.

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