In Good Company with Nicolai Tangen - Bonus: Advice to young people

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

What's the secret to building a fulfilling career? Nicolai Tangen shares some of the most powerful advice he's gathered from his extraordinary guests on In Good Company over the years. Hear from AMD's Lisa Su on running towards problems, Bill Gates on continuous learning, and NVIDIA's Jensen Huang's contrarian take on passion. You'll also get career wisdom from Mary Barra of General Motors, Goldman Sachs' David Solomon's 'two-thirds rule,' and Ferrari CEO Benedetto Vigna's four-pillar success framework. Plus insights from poker champion Annie Duke, Accenture's Julie Sweet on living without regrets, and legendary investor Stan Druckenmiller's unconventional advice. Wondering what personal advice Nicolai has for you? Don’t miss this episode!In Good Company is hosted by Nicolai Tangen, CEO of Norges Bank Investment Management. New full episodes every Wednesday, and don't miss our Highlight episodes every Friday. The production team for this episode includes Isabelle Karlsson and PLAN-B's Niklas Figenschau Johansen, Sebastian Langvik-Hansen and Pål Huuse. Background research was conducted by Isabelle Karlsson. Watch the episode on YouTube: Norges Bank Investment Management - YouTubeWant to learn more about the fund? The fund | Norges Bank Investment Management (nbim.no)Follow Nicolai Tangen on LinkedIn: Nicolai Tangen | LinkedInFollow NBIM on LinkedIn: Norges Bank Investment Management: Administrator for bedriftsside | LinkedIn Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi everybody, I'm Nicola Tangen and today you are listening to In Good Company. Now, today's episode is a bit different and I'm particularly excited about it actually. Because over the last few years, I've had the chance to sit down with some truly extraordinary people, some of the leading leaders in the world who've shaped industries and changed how we think about business, technology and success. At the end of every conversation, I asked them the same question. What advice would you give to young people? I have been struck by how thoughtful, personal and sometimes really surprising their answers have been. For this special episode, I've collected advice from someone of our remarkable guests,

from Lisa Sue at AMD to Bill Gates, from the CEO of Ferrari to the head of Goldman Sachs. Each brings their own perspective on what it takes to build a fulfilling career and a meaningful life. So whether you're a student figuring out your path, someone early in your career, or whether you are just looking for a fresh perspective. There is wisdom here that might resonate with you. These insights come from decades of real world experience, both successes and failures. Let's start with Lisa Su, the CEO of AMD, one of the leading chip companies in the world. She shares why we should all be running towards the problems instead of running away from them.

Well, I got a great piece of advice when I was a very young engineer. And, you know, the piece of advice that I got was, Lisa, you should run towards problems. And, you know, I didn't really understand that piece of advice at the time, frankly. But, you know, what it really means is, look, we all are going to spend, you know, sort of all of our waking hours, you know, working on something. Whatever you work on, make sure that you work on something that's important. And actually, people like it when you volunteer for tough problems. because that's where you need sort of the most, you know, sort of innovation, the most creativity, the most, you know, sort of opportunity.

So I like to tell people to run towards problems, you know, volunteer for that hard problem. You know, don't be afraid to take on something that's really challenging because you're going to learn a ton and people are going to appreciate that you've volunteered for something that was really hard. Next, we'll hear from Annie Duke, a former professional poker player turned decision strategist. Annie has a fascinating perspective on what truly determines our success in life, and which factors we actually have control over. Look, here's the fact of your life.

There are only two things that are going to determine how your life turns out. One is luck, and one is the quality of your decisions. Luck, you have no control over. You can't control the circumstances. of your birth, for example, and we know that people are born into different circumstances that change sort of the distribution of outcomes that are available to them. And you can't do anything about that. So first of all, embrace the luck. It is what it is, right? I can't do anything about it. But what you can do something about is the quality of your decisions. And over time, if you're

making better decisions than you otherwise would have, those gains will accrue over time. And it's going to change. That's the thing that can change the trajectory of your life. So it's this idea of while you can't control luck, you are an agent of your own decisions. And if you can become totally focused on how do I improve the quality of your decisions, that's the thing that can change your life. Because better decisions lead to better outcomes for individuals. And in fact, that also leads to better outcome for society.

the society is a collection of individuals. So really start focusing on your decisions and become an agent in your own decisions. Now, Jensen Huang, the founder and CEO of Envidia and one of the most impressive people I have ever met. He challenges the conventional wisdom about finding your passion. His perspective may surprise you. Well, there are a lot of things to learn.

I would just, I would advise be a, be a, a learner um but um probably the best advice that that i can imagine is is um think from first principles i don't worry about anybody else's advice you know i i've been given a lot of advice over the years some of it have been very good most of it has been irrelevant and the reason for that is because it was either the advice was either an opinion um it was perspective of the time it was based on on wrong assumptions um and and my advice would be you know think for yourself think from first principles and and and a lot of people say you know find something you love i i don't know about that i guess i guess i've fallen in love um in many things that i do

I loved it when I was a dishwasher. I loved it when I was a busboy. I loved it when I was delivering papers. I loved it when I was waiting tables. I've loved every single job that I've ever had. And I loved every single day at Nvidia that I've ever had. And I just learned to love what I'm doing. And so I guess it's probably harder to find something that you love,

but it's easier to fall in love. with what you're doing. And once you fall in love with what you're doing because you just desperately want to do a good job at it, it's easier to do it hard. It's easier to do it well and do it hard. Next up is Bill Gates, the Microsoft co-founder who believes that in today's world,

one skill stands about all others, the ability to keep learning, and I could not agree more. Let's hear what he has to say. Well, what's worked for me is to be a reader and a learner and be pretty tough on myself about do I understand something or not. And try and be pretty broad. You know, I learn a lot of things by studying the history of, okay, you know, what happened

in the history of chemistry, what happened in the history of physics, you know, because everybody was completely confused if you go back far enough and then, you know, various people come along or, you know, like Newton and come up with some general principles. You know, being, you know, having a good background in. math and software, I think is a very helpful thing, no matter what area you go into. I had great teachers, you know, who gave me a sense, okay, you know, if you just try hard enough, you can figure these things out. So, you know, being a constant learner, particularly in an age where the technology is going to be constantly changing.

Next, Benedetto Vena, the very cool CEO of Ferrari. He offers a structure framework with four key principles that have guided his impressive carrier across both technology and automotive industries. There are four things, all important. Number one, you have to work hard because nothing comes for free. If something comes for free, it's not long-lasting because you have to fill it. And this is the experience I was gaining that usually you gain with life. It's important. two is about do things with passion. Don't fall the money. If you select a job because they

pay you more, but you don't have passion, you are losing the most important asset of your life. That is the time, the life. Number three, and I think this is very important nowadays, and I keep talking always with my daughter, she's 17 years old, is a people relation. Today, with the web two with the social network, all this, you know, texting. I mean, spend the time with the people. You cannot live into digital world. You need

time good, quality time with people. So third is relation with people. And then last but not the list keeps, keep learning. And I keep learning from everyone, everywhere and always. There is

nothing wrong because our brain never get the learning. So it's hard work, it's continuous learning, it's passion, and it's people relations. Stay with others. Mary Barra, the CEO of General Motors and the first

woman to lead a major automaker. She shares practical advice on how to stand out and advance your career. Well, I think first is, you know, find what you really are interested about and passionate about from an industry perspective. And that's not to say that there is, you know, every job

has parts of it that you love to do and parts that you need to do. So you've got to, you know, be realistic. But find something you really are interested in love doing. And then work really hard. You know, hard work will distinguish you from your peers. And if people know you're owning your job, you know, we talk about it, especially being in the vehicle interest, you know, who washes a rental car? No one.

But if you approach your current assignment, like you're going to do it for the rest of your life and you make you know you improve the processes you remove bureaucracy you build a network people see how hard you're working to do the work you're responsible for today better and i think that's what distinguishes you and you'll get more and more opportunities uh and then the last thing i would say um and this is primarily directed at women but it's a generalization but have a point of you speak up when you're in forums and people are brainstorming topics and you have either a different perspective or you have a new idea, find your voice, have your voice. Even if, you know, I think so many times people, especially as they enter a new business

are worried, well, you know, maybe I'm going to sound stupid. Don't worry about it. Have a point of view. And, you know, I think often you'll find many people were thinking about the same thing you were. David Salleman, Chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs brings a valuable long-term perspective to career development, including his very, very interesting personal story of persistence, And what he calls, the two-thirds rule for job satisfaction.

As a young person, it's important to do a couple of, you know, really, really-based things. You know, find a place where you can go work with great people, where you can learn, where you can grow, where you can build a personal and professional network, and kind of put your head down and don't be in a hurry. It's a long journey, and you don't know where it's going to take. you and certainly I never I never aspired to be the CEO of Goldman Sachs in fact when I was coming out of school I interviewed for Goldman Sachs and I didn't get a job where I was out of school for a year and a half I interviewed at Goldman Sachs to get a job laterally and I didn't get a job so you know I wasn't

offered a job at Goldman Sachs until I was in my late 30s so that's what you're called grit well I mean it's I found a path into the business um I found that I really enjoyed the business I enjoyed the people interaction. I enjoyed the intellectual stimulation. I enjoyed the fact that every day was different. I enjoyed the fact that I was learning and growing and meeting people. And so whatever you choose to pursue, you know, find something that interests you, take a long-term view. Don't be in a hurry.

And just remember that it's not a straight line. It's a journey with its ups and downs. And you never know what's going to come your way. but there'll be lots of interesting choices, you know, along the road. Be patient, work hard, be persistent, have grit. I've heard you say once that if you are happy two-thirds of the time, that's good enough. I really believe this, you know, professionally. I tell a story, it's an anecdotal story about a woman who I knew who came into my office,

who had been at the firm for a couple of years, and she came into my office. I happen to know her, I knew her growing up as a child, so she came to, you know, she came to see me. And she said to me, I want to talk about, you know, what I'm going to do next. And I said to her, okay, that's great, but let me ask you a little bit about what you're doing. You know, how do you like your job? Oh, I love it. The work's so interesting, super interesting. I find it really motivating. I like what I'm doing. I really like the work. I'm like, that's great. How do you like your boss? And this was a young woman. Oh, my God, she's amazing. I feel so lucky that I, you know, I'm being mentored by a senior woman who's experienced and

she really watches out for me and she's teaching me and I really like working for her. I was like, that's great. How do you like the people you're working with? Oh, my goodness, I've made so many new friends. You know, we go out at night, on the weekends, and we work really hard together and we go have fun. I mean, I really feel so lucky. It's such an amazing group of people. My advice was go back to work.

You know, if all those things are working, you know, keep going and see what comes. Why would you take yourself off a track where you're enjoying it, you're learning, you like who you work for, you like who you're working with, you know, let it play out a little bit, be a little bit more patient and stay with it. Because generally speaking in a career, there are lots of times when you don't have those things. You don't like some of the people you're working with. You don't like your boss. I think one of the great lessons that everyone has to work through in a career is when you're working for someone and you don't like working for them. And the easy thing to do is to just quit or walk away from it. The better thing to do is to figure out how to make it work

and to try to see what you can learn from that dynamic. And so I think if you've got it kind of working, if you feel good about it, you know, most of the time, two-thirds of the time, as you say, 75% of the time, you're probably in a pretty good place. Julie Sweet, the CEO of Accenture, shares a deeply personal philosophy shaped by her father's wisdom and her own experience,

facing a serious health challenge. Two things. One of them is to live by this idea of lead your life with excellence, confidence, and humility. And I think it's so important. You know, I learned that from my dad. And my dad painted cars for a living. And he always believed that, you know, we could do anything that we set our mind to do. And at the same time, he was always very frank when, you know, we weren't really leading with excellence, where we weren't performing with excellence.

And so I think it's important to balance those two things and to have the humility, to know what you don't know, to learn from others and to build great teams. I think that's just super important. The second piece is to think about your life in a way to not have any regrets. You know, I had breast cancer when I was 47, and I had two young kids at the time. And one of the things it taught me was that, you know, life can change very quickly. And I have this, like, barometer in the way I live my life where I'll stop and I'll say, if tomorrow, you know, I was diagnosed again with cancer or I faced some kind of life-threatening illness, would I have regrets about how I'm living my life right now? And sometimes the answer is yes. Like, you know, know, I've committed to too much travel. I'm away from my family. And other times it's no, like I've got the right balance. But it's important to ask the question, right? Now, I'm always cautious to say, like, if you're a young person, you're going to have to work really hard. Okay? Like, so yes, you know, it's not about like not working hard, but it's about making sure

that you're kind of looking at your life in the whole. And, you know, it's something that I've learned and I'd like to share. Next, we'll hear from the legendary investor Stan Jirkenmiller, who shares contrarian career advice for those considering finance and investment management. First of all, if they're going in it for the money, they should go elsewhere. There's too many people in the business like me that just love the game and the passion for reasons I just articulated, and they're not going to be able to outwork the people that are passionate in the game.

and it's not a fun game if you're losing. It's horrible. I just told you and how I respond to drawdowns. But if they have a passion for it, if I was a young person, I would not get an MBA. I'd go find a mentor.

And if they didn't want me, I would just relentlessly bug the hell out of them, which a couple of have done with me until they finally accepted me to go and work for it. them, learn what I could from them. If they still like the business, just keep trying to grow your knowledge base. I would say an analyst skill set in our business is completely different than a portfolio manager's skill set.

Once in a while, you'll get an overlap, but I would be careful if they really love the analyst part, which is where we all start, of thinking they have to become a portfolio manager. I've seen it ruin people's lives who weren't built for trigger points, so they should be open-minded. I got in the business because I wanted intellectual stimulation, and you're going to get plenty in either one. But that would be my advice to them and be open-minded. Lastly, what is my advice to you? Well, key for me is to be curious. Ask questions, listen, try to learn as much as you can, have as many different friends as you can, and just be interested in lots of stuff. Then you need to work hard. I think you can outwork others if you put in

more hours and more thinking. And then you need to be resilient. You need to deal with setbacks as temporary and never take no for an answer. Now, I also think it's important to define your own success because it should not be money, it should be to do something meaningful and something fulfilling where you apply yourself and so that when Friday night comes, you feel that you have really done your best.

Last, a few things that perhaps you have not thought about. The first of these is spend more time in nature. Walk in the forests. Get away from digitalization and screens because nature does something to your thinking, which I think is really, really important. Secondly, say thank you to everybody who helps you. Be grateful and be a giver. Lastly, be nice. Now, to be nice, this may not be so important when you're 18, but later on in life, in my mind, it's the only thing that counts. Be nice to your mother, be nice to your family and be nice to your friends. Good luck.