In Search Of Excellence - Anna Leigh Waters: Mental Toughness, Financial Wisdom, and the Future of Pickleball | E145

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Anna Leigh Waters is the youngest professional pickleball player to achieve world number one status in singles, doubles, and mixed doubles, a feat she accomplished at just 14 years old. As a pioneer in the rapidly growing sport, Anna Leigh has not only dominated on the court but also navigated the complexities of contracts, sponsorships, and the professionalization of pickleball. With accolades like being the top pick in the MLP Draft and endorsements from major brands, she’s become a trailblazer in the sport's evolution. Beyond her athletic achievements, Anna Leigh offers inspiring insights into mental toughness, managing fame, and preparing for the future, all while balancing her role as a role model for young athletes worldwide.Timestamps:00:00 – Introduction and Anna Leigh’s Pickleball IQ and Early Journey06:45 – MLP Draft and Strategies Behind Player Selections13:15 – Professional Sports Contracts: The Evolution in Pickleball20:30 – Mental Toughness and Dealing with High-Pressure Matches28:00 – Growth of Professional Pickleball Teams and Investment Opportunities35:20 – Extreme Preparation: Anna Leigh’s Approach to Practice and Strategy42:10 – The Future of Pickleball: Olympic Dreams and Global Recognition47:35 – Closing Reflections: Passion, Positivity, and GoalsSponsors:Sandee | Bliss: BeachesWant to Connect? Reach out to us online!Website | Instagram | LinkedIn

How are you so much better than everybody else? Many people have asked me if I've played pickleball in another life, so that might be the answer to the question. But I've been playing for a while. I've been playing since I was younger. Like I said, a lot of the people I'm playing against played college tennis. Also, my mom was number one in the world before I was,

so it might be in my genes a little bit, might be a genetic thing. Most people say what makes me really good at pickleball is my IQ. That was also what made me really good in soccer, was my IQ. I was just very smart. I was a good passer, a very good assister.

My best thing wasn't my speed or how hard I could shoot the ball. It was always just, you know, I was very smart. And I think on the pickleball court, it's kind of the same thing. Just my decision-making is my best thing. You're listening to part two of my incredible interview with Anna Lee Waters, the number one pickleball player in the world who became number one in singles, doubles, and mixed doubles at 14 years old. She's the go-to pickleball.

If you haven't yet listened to part one of my awesome interview, please check that one out first. Now, without further ado, here's part two of my incredible interview with Anna Lee. Are men players inherently better than female players? It depends who you ask. Most male players are better than female players, but there are a couple female players who might be better than some of the male players. But it was this big thing this year because we had the MLP draft and there was this thing

like should you draft, is it more important to draft a really good female? Or is it really important to draft a really good male? And you were number one pick in the overall draft? That was two years ago, number one pick. This year, Ben beat me, unfortunately. He's number one pick. Wait a minute. So it's not a permanent team.

It is now. It wasn't then. When I was picked number one, every year they did a draft. And you were on the New Jersey 5s? And I was on number one, every year they did a draft. And you were on the New Jersey 5s? And I was on the New Jersey 5s. Then they redrafted this year. I was the number two pick, still on the New Jersey 5s,

just because they wanted me and they got lucky with their draft position. It's a lottery like the NBA lottery? It was this year. For the first time this year it was. They were given a certain amount of dollars they could spend on the entire draft. So let's just use a million dollars as an example. If they spent $900,000 on their first pick, they only had $100,000 to spend on their next

three. Or if they spent $50,000 on their first pick, they had $950,000 spent on the next three people. So that was also kind of a strategy, is like, how much is first pick, you know, they had $950,000 spent on the next three people. So that was also kind of a strategy, is like how much is it worth to spend up, up, up to get Ben or whoever, versus if you just get like four players who are around the same price type thing. But the New Jersey Fives got the second pick and they chose me.

And then with the rest of our money, we were able to pick the other three players on my team. Okay, so to be perfectly clear what you're saying is, let's say the teams each get a million dollars to spend on players. They're paying you. Not me, they're paying the league. They're paying the league for this.

They're paying the league. All the money that was spent was paid towards the league. Okay, and then what do the teams pay you? So the teams don't individually pay me. I have a contract with the PPA Tour which pays me and in my contract with the Tour I have to play these MLP events. I have to play X amount of MLP events. Do you get paid more as the number one player than the number 10 player?

Yeah, so the contracts, so back a year ago when MLP was trying to take over PPA and they tried to get all these players to come from PPA and go to MLP, all these contracts started going up. Before then we had no contracts, we'd just play the tournaments we wanted to. But then when the split happened, both sides were kind of freaking out and just kind of throwing all this money at people and like, sign this contract for three years, we'll pay X amount of money, etc. So that's when all the contracts kind of happened.

And in the contracts, it would say like you had to play X amount of days. Or in another person's contract, it would say you had to play this many PPA events, but then you had to play this many team events. So all the contracts are kind of different. They're not really the same because of that. So it's just this crazy thing where some players may have gotten more money than somebody who's better than them because they signed

at the right time. Like it was just this crazy thing. Like some players who aren't even in the top 20 are getting more money than somebody in the top 20, which is nuts. Being paid from the PPA. And MLP, because MLP still has some of their contracts as well. But now the MLP is merged with the PPA, so they are owned by the same entity.

So here's PPA, MLP owned by the same people. Interesting. Okay. This merger though did make it in the future and now easier for people to understand because they're kind of two different things now. One's not trying to take over the other one. So next year we're gonna have a season of MLP and then we're gonna have PPA tour events. So it's gonna make a lot more sense next year than it has the past couple years. Yeah, my friend Herb Simon bought the Indiana Pacers for $6 million, I don't know, 40 or 50 years ago,

and the Cuban Al is worth $3.5 billion. Good investment. Good investment. Mark Cuban bought the Dallas Mavericks for $400 million. I think he just sold it for a little over $5 billion. Professional pickleball teams, I think they were going for $100,000 or something like that when they got going. We were offered to buy one of the teams, I think they were going for $100,000 or something like that when they got going 25,000.

We were offered to buy one of the teams, I think for 200,000 and we were like, oh, I don't know. And now the teams are selling for like $11 million or something like that. And we're like. Two years later. Two years later.

Yeah, I'm like, should have probably paid the 200,000 for that, but. Crazy. Gotta do, you gotta make decisions based on what you know at the moment. Do you think these eleven million dollar purchase prices are good investment long term given the growth and trajectory I think it just depends on how much are you banking on pickleball like if you think pickleball is gonna explode and become like tennis or basketball or yeah so I guess you're

going back if it's gonna be as big as people yeah yeah as big as basketball or football it's a great investment because like you said, these teams are now worth billions of dollars versus 11 million. But if you're like, I don't really want to gamble, it's definitely a gamble because pickleball right now is going up and I think it's gonna continue to go up personally, but if you don't think so, then it's not a good investment.

Like all professional sports franchises, the value of the teams go up proportionally with the value of the TV contracts and we're still in its infancy today. Exactly. Where it's, we'll see what happens I think. I think the next couple years is probably going to determine kind of what happens with the sport. Like you said, if these TV companies are willing to pay for pickleball to be on TV, then I think you'll see it exponentially grow. But if in the next couple years, the people are like,

oh, well people don't like watching it on TV, then it might not go up. It might say the same, it might go down, nobody really knows. But personally, I feel like now, people like watching it on TV more than they used to, because a lot more people are playing the sport. It's kind of like golf.

When I watch golf, I respect it because I played golf. My dad played golf in college. Like I know how tough that shot that guy just hit was, you know. But if you have never played golf in your life, you're like, this is the easiest sport. Like it's so boring to watch. But people love watching golf because they know how hard it is. So I think the same thing's kind of gonna happen in pickleball, whereas the more people play it and understand how hard the shots are we're actually hitting on TV, the more they'll respect it and want to watch it on TV.

When you play a pro match, it's not like you're playing in a stadium, Arthur Ashe Stadium, there's nothing like that for pickleball. They're basically grandstands that are brought in, and it reminds me of a high school gym. Okay. Right? I mean, so are there 500 to 2000 people watching live and do they all sell out and are people scalping tickets at this point for the best matches? They definitely all sell out especially towards the weekend like

Wednesday and Thursday isn't like a sold-out day but Friday Saturday and Sunday is all sold out. Depending on the tournament like the major some of the majors have like 2000 seats 2500 maybe at Nationals the one we just had or Worlds I guess the one we just had, or Worlds, I guess, the one we just had. A couple weeks ago, that was like 2500 and it was completely sold out. Some other tournaments, maybe it can only seat, like if you're going to a 500 points tournament,

maybe it can only seat closer to a thousand, maybe a little less, but that's always sold out and there's people standing. So I think we're definitely outgrowing what we have now, but we're not to the point where, like you said, we want this huge Arthur Ashe Stadium, especially because the pickleball court is smaller than a tennis court. So there's a certain point where it might look super small if you're on Arthur Ashe, you know what I mean?

People need to be close to the court. And just give people a size on a pickleball court, where it's 20 feet by 44 feet. Yeah, it's a fourth of a tennis court. But you need at least 10 to 12 feet when we were building our court behind what we'll call the baseline, you know, behind the baseline. Because if not, you just don't have room. It's kind of dangerous to be honest because you're running from off the court, you know, into a fence or something. Yeah.

Because there's ATPs, which is around the post, which you're moving to the side. There's huge serves now, you need room. If somebody lobs you, you need room. So I think honestly, when people are building courts, they're doing a better job now, but when they were first starting building courts, they were making them super tight

and not giving people room, and that also might have been creating some injuries because of that. I mean, I think people are limited by the amount of space they have in their home as well. And you mentioned the room. So I am a weekend warrior. And I've pounded myself into rusty fences.

I have a huge scar here on my arm. And I have one here because I went running, running like an idiot into fences. Yeah. But was it just at your house that you were running into fences? No. I mean, I'm very fortunate. We have plenty of room at the house.

It was at Santa Monica Pickleball Center. I just ran into the fence and then we have a place up in... Did you win the point? No. I lost both points. So it wasn't worth running into the fence? And then the second one was in Coeur d'Alene, a place called Gaza Ranch. It's basically a square metal fence of the little squares and it's four feet high so the ball won't go flying onto the next court.

It's nice but at the same time it's kind of dangerous if it's not far enough away from the court. I mean it's far, plenty of room. I'm trying to make the great shot even though I'm not a great player. I'm trying to show that I could do it. Yeah Let's talk about being the goat and I think for the go Wow people call me the baby goat I think this is the first time somebody's calling me the goat So and I want to start with Roger Federer, so let's talk about his stats here. So Roger Federer played in 1,526 singles matches and won nearly 80% of them. But interestingly, he only won 50% of the points within those matches.

He won about 25% of tournaments. He played in his best years, he won a little over half. You've won 85% of your events and the gap between you and the second best player is bigger than the gap between the number two player and the second best player is bigger than the gap between the number two player The number ten player you're only five foot six and the the thought in the tennis or the thought You're only five foot six and the thought in the pickleball world is taller places taller players do better What are you doing differently and why can't people come now and kick your butt?

Well Roger Federer I looked up to very much when I was a kid. He's my favorite pro tennis player of all time so I love that you used his stats. As far as my height goes I think there's kind of in pickleball this thing where you can be too tall because you just become this big target and you can't get as low so I think honestly in my opinion this isn't guys I'm talking about women right now I would say the best women pickleball players right now are anywhere from 5'4 to 5'10. But then the women who kind of are above that, maybe even 5'10 is too tall, but like, I think if you're above 5'10 as a woman, it's kind of a disadvantage. And maybe if you're below 5'4, also a disadvantage, so somewhere in that range. I would say probably the best height for a pickleball player is like 5'8".

So I'm a couple inches shorter than that, but it seems to be working. How are you so much better than everybody else? I honestly don't know. Many people have asked me if I've played pickleball in another life, so that might be the answer to the question. But I've been playing for a while. I've been playing since I was younger. Like I said, a lot of the people I'm playing against played college tennis. They didn't play pickleball growing up,

so a lot of their strokes and stuff are very tennis-like, whereas mine are tennis-like, but they're also pickleball-like, so that might be helping me. Also, my mom was number one in the world before I was, so it might be in my genes a little bit, might be a genetic thing. But I don't know, most people say what makes me really good at pickleball is my IQ.

That was also what made me really good in soccer was my IQ. I was just very smart. I was a good passer, a very good assister. My best thing wasn't my speed or how hard I could shoot the ball. It was always just, you know, I was very smart. And I think on the pickleball court, it's kind of the same thing. Just my decision making is my best thing. So maybe it's that.

My mom says, my mom is always right, so my mom might be right on this. My mom says it's my mental health. Mom's always right. We've had people on the show, many of the most successful people in the world on the show have said, never listen to your parents because only you know the best outcome for yourself. Well, my mom, she's complimenting me in this, but she's saying, or she says that my mental toughness

is what makes me the best, because there have been many matches where I've been down a game in seven, one, and come back in one, or I've been down 10, two, and come back and won the game. Like, I never give up, and I'm a fighter, and I think that's what she thinks is what makes me the best so maybe it's a combination of those two things.

You're only, well let's go back for a second. You said in the show maybe 30 minutes ago that you have all these other players now coming up wanting to play and getting in the sport. There are better athletes today. I mean some people who would criticize you and Ben being the number one getting in the sport. There are better athletes today. I mean, some people who would criticize you and Ben being the number one players in the world, you were early, it was much easier to be number one. But you're still kicking everyone's ass today.

And at some point, I mean, are the players getting better and better as the competition in the last five years or two years, even one year, been? I think so. I think it's a combination of many things. I think you're seeing, I mean, there's still not even just Ben and I,

but there are still players who are the best when Ben and I were the best and they're still the best now because those players are still getting better. But you also see players who were great a couple years ago and they haven't gotten any better. So, you know, they're not at the top anymore. So I think it's a combination of that. You've also got new players who are coming in who are getting really good and a couple of them

have made it. More on the men's side than the women's side. I've seen there are more newer guys right now who are doing well on the men's side than there are the women's. There's a couple women. But also I think the fact that the paddles have gotten hotter, more spinny, has given people the opportunity to get better at things. So that's why maybe on TV it looks a lot better as well, because we have better equipment so we're able to do cooler things with the ball, etc., which also might be why players are getting better.

So I don't know, I think it's a combination of a lot of things. But there's definitely more room for newer players to get into the sport. I'm personally excited for when it's not like the college tennis players coming into the sport, when it's like kids who have played their whole life coming into the sport. I think that's when you're going to see some like insane pickleball. Like if you've played pickleball from seven years old to now you're turning pro at 20 or whatever, they're going to be amazing. Whereas if you played college tennis your whole life and you've played pickleball for two years but you're a pro, you or whatever, they're gonna be amazing. Whereas if you played college tennis your whole life

and you've played pickleball for two years but you're a pro, you're not gonna be as good, you know? So I think it's gonna be really cool. Hopefully I'll get to play against some of those people because I am younger in the future, but that would be awesome. Throughout our careers, we all have moments that we're not particularly proud of.

And you're extremely mature for your age and I think, I'm sure, it's because you come from a very mature, successful, educated family, and you're also worldly, right? Because you've been dealing with adults and your whole life. I honestly get more nervous talking to kids my age than I do to adults. But when you were 16 years old,

you had an incident on the court where you lost, and you cheered the opponent who beat you, and you threw your racket and stormed off. Yes. What did you learn from that experience, and how do you deal with losing? I'm not proud of that at all. So a little backstory on that event. So that was my fourth tournament in a row, so like a month.

I had been playing a tournament every week that month. It was the last tournament. And leading up to the event, my trainers told me not to play, my mom told me not to play, they're like, it's too much. But I was going for this record, which was going to be seven triple crowns in a row. And it had never been broken. Or like somebody had set like six or something. But seven would be like to break this record.

And if I didn't play one event, it would reset. So I was like, I felt like in my head that I needed to play this event, I had to play this event. So I put a lot of pressure on myself. I was reading all these social media comments and people were like, oh, is she gonna break this record like this weekend? So I was getting this all in my head, all in my head.

And the girl I lost who I actually warmed up with that morning which I never do I was from up with my mom but I warmed up with this girl Tyra this morning who's actually a friend of mine now looking back on it it's funny because she was new she was like a new up-and-comer so going into the match I was feeling pressure everybody was saying this girl was really good you know was she gonna be better than me I was feeling a ton of pressure going into the match. Also, like, sitting in the crowd was this guy on social media who had, like, hounded me.

Like, said bad things about me on social media. So I was, like, paying attention to that. I was freaking out in the court. The court was kind of weird. Like, I was...these are not excuses, by the way. I'm just telling you, this could have not happened, but it's all going through my head. When I'm playing the match. So I'm literally, like, going crazy.. Like I'm going on the sidelines talking to my mom during the match. I'm rambling, I'm screaming, I'm like I don't know what's going on, I don't want to be here. Like I was basically like telling her that I want to lose, like I was, which I never do.

Like I said, I'm a fighter, I always fight on the court. And this time I was just completely giving up. And the girl I was playing was playing extremely well. And we get to the third game, I won the second game, we get to the third game, and I have a chance to win this match, and I really just have a total mental breakdown on the court. And this has never really happened to me before. But I think it was just all the pressure I was feeling from all these outside things that was kind of weighing

on me, and this girl was playing really well, so I was doubting myself, the pressure I was feeling from all these outside things that was kind of weighing on me and this girl was playing really well so I was doubting myself and then I ended up losing the match. In my head I was very psychotic at the moment. I was so happy. That's why I cheered. I wasn't cheering to her like congrats you beat me. I was cheering to myself like yay finally I lost I lost, which is so psychotic, looking back on it.

And I tapped your paddle, I tossed my paddle at my mom, looking back on it, terrible decision as well, run off the court to my dad, go into the bathroom, still freaking out. That day was one of the worst days of my pickleball career, just everything that happened. I felt so bad. The next morning I texted Tyra, I was like, you played amazing, great job. I'm so sorry. Like I was feeling so much pressure that I just kind of like exploded at the end. And she had played professional tennis, so she kind of understood. And she like texted me this really nice text back, like I get it, you were under a lot of pressure. Like thank you for texting me back, whatever. And we're friends now, so it's okay.

But looking back on it, it was not great. But I did, like you said, learned a lot from it. Now when I lose, I don't sprint off the court. I, you know, at least walk off. Sometimes, a lot of times I don't bring my bag onto the court, I just bring my paddle and my water. So if I do lose, I just kinda like take my water and my paddle, like walk off the court.

I always shake my opponent's hand. I don't do anything crazy. Sometimes even if I'm about to... This one time, I was getting ready to lose. I was down 7-1 in the third. I was in my mind. This was like kind of right after I had just lost a tire. I was like, Annalee, if you lose this match, I was like going through what I was going

to do in my head. I'm like, you're going to shake this person's hand. You're going to say good match. You're going to walk to your bag. You're going to like slowly walk up to the court. I was going good match, you're going to walk to your bag, you're going to slowly walk off the court. I was going through everything and then I ended up winning the match, which is crazy. So I think now just kind of saying it's okay to lose, you're going to lose every now and then, that's a big thing my mom told me because in my head, at that period, I hadn't lost

in months, a long time. I felt like everybody on social media was like, Pickleball's boring to watch, Annalise winning everything, it's so dumb, somebody needs to beat her, and I was letting everybody get to me. And I was thinking about stats, which is why I don't think about stats anymore, because they do get in my head.

So I just think looking back on it, it reminded me there are more things in life to pickleball, number one. Number two, you're gonna lose and you can't act like an idiot when you lose. Number three is be respectful to your opponents, especially when they beat you, because not only is it like a big moment in their career,

but it's also a big moment in yours because I'm not necessarily losing all the time so people don't really get to see how I lose. So if every time I lose, I act like an, people are going to say I'm a terrible loser, etc. But Gary Vee actually, I was reading something that he posted the other day and it was like you can't live your life worrying about what other people think about you. I saw that post.

You did see the post? Yeah. And I think that's something that, you know, I've been in the limelight. I'm so young. I'm still learning. I think my mom posted something like, I'm going to make mistakes, but I'm also going to learn from them, like after I did that. Which I did.

I learned from it. So I think just kind of focusing on myself and not what other people are saying about me on social media has been a big thing. Like now, if I ever lose a match, I delete Instagram for a couple days and like I don't want to see anything. So I've kind of learned a couple of things like after that, like on what to do to not let it get so big in your head. But of course, I'm sure I'm going to make another mistake and I'll hopefully learn from that one.

Something I've learned in my own career and that I teach all my mentees and the people I coach is, we learn so much more from our failures than our successes. How much has losing contributed to your success? 100%. I think sometimes too in the past, I've gotten complacent with like winning a lot of things and then, you know, being like, oh, like pickleball

and then I lose and I'm like, Emily, what were you thinking? Like get back out there, you know, start training harder. And a couple of weeks ago, I lost this women's doubles match and it was, you know, in my head. And a couple weeks ago I lost this women's doubles match and it was, you know, in my head about it. I got super in my head about it. I was like calling my mental coach, I was talking to my mom like, I need to work on this, I'm so bad at this, like whatever, whatever. And my mom was like, you know, Lee, you lost three times in women's doubles this year. Like you need to like, like take things,

you know, like don't just think about the last match you played. Like you need to think about this whole year and what you've done and stop doubting yourself and believe in yourself. So I'm still learning things to this day when I lose. So I definitely think in the future, most of the things I learn in life will be from my losses. You're a role model to a lot of young women, teenagers and adults, frankly. And you're, you're a goddess in the pickleball world for lack of and you are the

GOAT. Do you feel the daily pressure of losing and how much, how do you deal with that pressure? And then as a second part of that, what's your advice to all the other young women who look up to and feel the pressure and need to win? How do you best cope with that? For sure. I haven't 100% figured out the best way to deal with it. I still think I'm trying to figure that out.

But something that always makes me feel better is sometimes, or this last time when I went and played an MLP and this girl came up to me, I think she was probably early 20s, she gave me this card and she was like, here, read this. We took a photo. She's like, read this later tonight or whatever. And I was like, okay. So I took the card and then I was in my hotel room and I read the card and it was like, here, read this. We took a photo. She's like, read this later tonight or whatever. I was like, OK. So I took the card. And then I was in my hotel room.

And I read the card. And it was like, you're so inspirational to so many girls and to myself. Keep being you. You have so much more to do in the pickleball world. It was just this amazing message. And it was so sweet. And it made me feel so good.

Because on Instagram, I feel like even if somebody says 10 nice things about you, but somebody says one bad thing, you but somebody says one bad thing you focus on the one bad thing which is why I've tried to stay off social media and stay off like I'll go on social media for like my friends and stuff but if it's a pickleball post like I don't read the comments stuff like that so it's really nice when somebody like gives you like a letter or tells you something in person and it's not just behind like somebody typing something online. So it really means a lot to me

when I get to talk to my fans. Because I try to do that when I go to tournaments. I know some pros don't like to, they feel bothered by people asking them for autographs or talking to them. But I really like talking to my fans, especially when my mom and I used to play together, mother and daughters used to come up to us crying,

like, oh my gosh, you've inspired our relationship so much like we've grown so much closer together by playing pickleball so all those stories I have to remind myself of on the daily because like I said you see one negative comment or somebody says one negative thing to you and you just think about that so as far as like dealing with the losses goes I think I probably have a talk with my mom at least once a week about it because I still haven't quite figured out how to deal with it. But I think I do a pretty good job with it. I also talk to my mental coach, and sometimes we'll talk for two hours,

and it'll make me feel better. I don't know, there's just little things. I think one thing, too, is just being around people who love you. Like, I travel with my parents, and after a couple months... Your grandparents come half the time, too. after- Your grandparents come half the time too. My grandparents come half the time. They're getting older, so they don't come quite as much anymore.

But just kind of like playing your match and then getting to reset and just talk with your family. Like, if I were to travel by myself after I played a match, I'd probably just be thinking about pickleball like all night. But whereas we'll go to dinner and we'll have fun and you know, maybe we'll go sightsee before the tournament or after the tournament or something like that to kind of get my mind off of it. So I think it's just having a good balance of like pickleball and life stuff.

My favorite is life stuff so I'm looking forward to this break I'm about to have after this tournament taking a couple days off pickleball but then I'll get the bug and like want to play for six hours every day again. Let's talk about money. Okay. And when pickleball first got going you win $500 for a tournament. When you look at tennis, if you're lucky, right? You get free paddles and maybe some very small tokens like that. In men's tennis and women's tennis, if you win the US Open, you earn $3.6 million each.

Is pickleball going there? I think eventually. Like I said right now, with all the contracts going on, a lot of the money is tied up in these contracts and is like guaranteed money, so the prize pool at these tournaments isn't as big as it would be. If you didn't have these contracts, it honestly might be, it's not 3.6 million dollars if you win a major, but it'd probably be a lot of money and kind of would shock the world that like how much money pickleball players are actually making like overall so I think once these contracts kind of run out that's when they'll start putting that money towards

prize money and like a major will be millions of dollars if you win down the road. So Ben Johns is the highest paid men's pickleball player in the world 2.5 million. Kelly Wolf, your awesome manager, came out publicly this year and said you're gonna make over 3 million dollars which made you the highest paid athlete in the sport. You have sponsors like Carvana, Selkirk and some of these other companies. Paddle Tech. Sorry. Okay. All right. We'll redo that whole one. When you look at professional golf, you've got Scottie Scheffler, this year alone and just prize money

Not sponsors made sixty six point four million in the top golfer in the world Nelly Korda makes three point seven million dollars a year What do you think the top pickleball players will be making five ten years from now? I really I can't answer that question But I can make a comment on how much more money Scottie's making than how much money she's making whereas in pickleball It's much more money Scotty's making than how much money she's making, whereas in Pickleball it's much more even. Like, to what Ben's saying, I'm making more money than he is. So it's kind of cool, and it's kind of always been this way where men and women in Pickleball get paid the exact same. So I think in the future it's honestly going to be like that because the women's match,

doubles matches are sometimes watched more than the men's doubles matches are just because we have more fast hands exchanges so they consider it more fun to watch. Yeah. Which is kind of cool especially because growing up as a female athlete when I was playing pickleball I was like oh everybody gets paid the same and then you look at all these other sports and you're like that's not necessarily the case. So let's talk about money for a minute and when I I started I co-founded a public company a technology company and at some point, our valuation was worth $35 billion, which at the time

was more than the value of Chrysler, Ford, and GM combined. I was a kid from Detroit that made news. Did you start the company? I was a co-founder, one of four co-founders. So I was very wealthy on paper. And when I went to meet all these money management firms, they all courted me. And I remember being with the president of Goldman Sachs Okay, who and I considered myself financially sophisticated, but he gave me this

Problem and he said if you have if you have a 31 day month and you have a penny on your first day How much money do you and it doubles every day? How much money do you have at the end of 31 days? And I was just at some point you can no longer do the math Yeah in my head and if we talk about the value of compounding to creating great wealth saving in a company and and And the answer to that question is 10.7 million dollars and I've won a lot of dinners on that on that question Just doing some simple math if you make

on that question. Just doing some simple math, if you make $3.6 million this year, and let's say 50% goes to taxes and coaches and travel and living, you're probably saving a million dollars if you're being conservative. And let's say today at, I think you'll be 18 years old next month,

but let's say you put a million dollars in the bank today, and let's say every year thereafter, you put away $750,000 per year, and let's say every year thereafter, you put away $750,000 per year, which you should do with all your sponsor money. Money is going to go up and up and up. After 13 years, when you'll be 30 years old, you'll have $21 million. And if you invest in the market, S&P 500, and just put it away. It's tax efficient, the S&P 500. When you're 30 years old, you'll have $21 million. In 23 years from now, when you're 40 years old, you'll have $68.6 million.

And 33 years from now, when you're 50 years old, you'll have $190 million. And let's just go a little more than that. If you put away a million dollars in the $750,000 in 50 years, when you're 50 years old, you'll have $245 million. Wow. Are you getting good financial advice at this point? And are everyone coming after you to say,

hey, Annali, let me manage your money for you? Funny enough, let me ask my mom one question. Mom, where's the, with Marshall? What's Rockefeller? Okay. So, we live in a community in Florida, and there are a lot of wealthy people live in this community. It's like their second and third homes.

So a lot of them have offered to help me to invest my money. We ended up with Rockefeller, so they're managing a lot of my money. My grandfather also was a business owner. In Allentown, he owned cold storage businesses, and he distributed all of Godiva chocolate for the entire country. So he just sold his company five years ago, and he's been investing it and one thing he likes to do is real estate so he'll like buy a house, flip it and then sell it. So he, and I'm turning 18 like you said so I'm wanting to move out of the house, so he suggested to me, obviously I do have money with Rockefeller but he suggested to me to

buy this house in Delray and flip it and live in it for a couple years and then sell it and I'd make some money on it, especially because South Florida real estate is booming right now. So currently I have a house that is completely gutted in Delray. My grandfather's helping doing all the construction and renovating. So hopefully by March I'll be in my first house. That's very exciting. So I've, you know, when you make money and you're financially sophisticated and you've

done well, I've had a lot of people come to me for financial advice and just as a disclaimer, I'm not giving financial advice on the show. Okay. But nobody beats the S&P 500 over the long term. No one after 30 years. I think Warren Buffett is the only person. And if you had met Warren Buffett in 1965 in Nebraska, you know, you were lucky, but no one is going to do that today. Your your advantage to people coming to money later

is that you're making money at such a young age and the compounding. Really, when I talk about the one penny a month doubling, you have a chance to create enormous wealth. So I would advise you as a new friend, S&P 500, put it away, no one's gonna beat it over 30 years, nobody. And you're not gonna be charged fees. And when we're done with the show, I can show you a spreadsheet that someone charging fees

that you think is 1% is a great deal. Over 30 years, you're gonna be paying tens of millions of dollars of fees that you don't really know about. Yeah, I'll take all the advice I can get. Yeah, I'm going to send you a spreadsheet that is going to blow your mind, by the way. Okay, do you have a personal financial goal? Kind of when I first started playing pickleball, I obviously knew I wasn't going to be number one in the world through my entire career because I was so young and I was number one.

I probably won't be number one in 15 years from now. I mean, I hope I am, but that's a very tough goal to set for yourself. So I always thought, like you said, I'm making the money now. And I have for the past couple of years. I wasn't making what I'm making now, but I was making a decent amount of money in the past couple of years. And like you said, I save money, so I've been saving it all. And I've always kind of wanted to be like a business woman in the future, like figure out, especially

since Pickleball is so new, what I can do in the space that nobody has done before or because I'm number one in the world could help build or a specific company like taking equity instead of taking money right away and trying to build that company. So I have a couple things in the works next year that I'm excited about as far as products go and things like that. But hopefully in the future, like when I'm done with Pickleball, I can figure out something in the Pickleball space to like continue working and staying in it, but maybe not playing professionally. So let's talk about what makes people successful.

And one of the things that's contributed to my success is something called extreme preparation. I'm writing a book by the same title, and that means when someone's preparing for a podcast, maybe one hour researching a guest, I've done 14 for this show, and that's my average. How has extreme preparation contributed to your success of being the go-to pickleball? I just think a lot of people say this, but when you're practicing, like practicing how you would play a ball? I just think, a lot of people say this, but when you're practicing, practicing how you would play a match

is I think a really big thing. Some people maybe practice, maybe they're putting in six hours on the court and I'm only putting in two and a half, but the two and a half hours I'm playing, I'm working extremely hard. I'm not hitting any shots that I wouldn't hit in a match. So I think preparing on the court

is something that's really helped me, but I also think preparing mentally, I think one of my biggest strengths on the court is strategy, and that's one reason because my mom, my mom's like the best strategist in the game, and we have a really solid game plan before I go out on the court. Whereas I feel like some players just go out

and they're like, all right, let's just play, but they didn't know that person's backhand sucks. If you hit the ball three times to their backhand, they're gonna eventually miss it or do something stupid there So I think a big thing is not only like training really hard and practicing really hard But also being smart when you're on the court About where to hit certain balls and if something's not working changing that and not continuing to do the same thing over again But having those like you said preparation like in your head before you step on the match

So you have plan a plan B plan C plan D if things aren't working. They talk about Michael Jordan being the best professional player ever in the NBA some people may say as LeBron but what really made Michael Jordan great was his mental attitude of winning he was so competitive you said you have a mental coach yes how much of your success has contributed to mental preparation and having that coach? For sure. My mental coach is Jack Llewellyn. He used to be the mental coach for the Braves.

He also did a couple of NASCAR, famous NASCAR drivers, so he definitely knows what he's doing. I think the main thing with him is not focusing too much on like, oh, I have this mental problem or this mental block, but just kind of talking things through. Like we could be on the phone for two hours and I'll tell him my problem and we'll go here and then we'll finally get back to here. Like it's just this crazy thing where you don't really think you're talking about your problems but by the end of the call you're like, man he just made me feel so much better.

You know, about whatever it is I was calling him about. But I also think something that a mental coach can kind of tell you to do but you have to do yourself and even before I had this mental coach I think I was pretty good at it was just being positive. Always you know even if you're down like I said 10-2 thinking you can come back and win trusting yourself. If you miss a shot okay it was the right idea like don't worry about it Annali like next point like you know never being super negative on yourself like smashing your paddle like a shot. Okay, it was the right idea. Don't worry about it, Annali. Next point. Never

being super negative on yourself, smashing your paddle in the middle of a match or yelling at yourself, telling yourself you're stupid, you hit a stupid shot. I try when I'm on the court. I actually talk to myself a lot, but it's always positive. It's like, fight or be you, or come on, Annali, you got this. You know what I mean? I'm never like Annali you suck you should stop playing pickleball on the court so I think being positive is something really big that you can kind of prepare for before the match starts but once you get in the match you kind of have to keep reminding yourself of that. You get to do some cool things and one cool thing and it's been hugely positive for you as you met Ben Johns at a tournament.

You guys have played mixed doubles together. You're the best team in the world. You just crush everybody. Did Ben Johns really beat your mom in U11, nothing, and ping pong when he was playing with a phone and a spoon? I don't think he played us together, but he probably played us a 1v1. When he played me 1v1 that happened. With a phone. I yeah but I

don't feel too bad about it because he's beaten people way better than me and ping-pong with the same thing. He played ping-pong like he can hit with like professional ping-pong players it's like crazy like he can be on a table he's like hitting these crazy ping-pong shots like me and ping-pong I have like a two in a backhand like I I fool around, but he is like, I think he could be like a pro ping pong player if he really tried to, he's really good. A lot of people don't realize this.

I mean, you watch professional football, you watch professional basketball, and there's a lot of trash talking on the court. There's also trash talking on the pickleball court, isn't there? There is, a lot more on the men's side. The women don't really trash talk, but the men can get into it sometimes.

What are they saying, man? You can't get me, kick your ass. Like if the guy's like maybe like a little shorter, he'll be like, you're too small or like too short to get that or maybe it'll be like no hands or that's a spot or way out or that's a bag, which is like when you hit somebody, it's called a body bag, so it'd be like, that's a bag. I don't know, things like that. Anything they get in their heads.

Women mainly yell when they win a point, they just scream really loud and that's kind of their trash talk, I guess. You're a very attractive 17 year old millionaire, very mature. Are you dating and how are you meeting guys these days or you're not doing it at all? I don't really have time for it at the moment. Not to say that I'm not looking for one.

If there's the right guy who comes up, I'd be interested, but I'm not going to go out of my way to find somebody. Comes up to you at a tournament and says, hi, I'm a fan. I don't know. That might be a little weird. That might, says, hi, I'm a fan. I don't know, that might be a little weird. That might be a little weird if it's a fan. I tend to find people who are very athletic attractive, but that's not always the best because my mom likes to tell me

that professional male athletes might not be the best people to marry in the future. I agree with you. And you've heard all the stories, and I have too. And I have friends that are professional athletes So yeah actors or musicians. Okay, so Yeah, fame fame fame brings a lot of it's nice to be famous I guess because you're successful, but there is a huge downside to fame as well

Personally, I always said the best thing was like in life Like if I could just restart life and snap my fingers would be to be super wealthy, but nobody knew who I was. Do you know how many times I said that exact word? I tell my team that, and it's just when you're doing something public and you're winning, everyone knows exactly what you're making. They don't know on the sponsor side what you're getting,

but they do know prize money, and it's being part of a public company. No, it's true, and it's scary sometimes too, because some people don't like you. Some people really like you. So I've had a stalker at one event. I had this one guy hug me and squeeze me and mess up my sternum. I've just had weird things happen to me.

But at the same time, it's kind of cool, because I feel like I might have an impact on some people's lives by what I'm doing in pickleball, maybe giving somebody an outlet or something like that. So that's awesome. But at the same time, I feel like I'd feel much safer if, you know, a lot of people didn't know who I was. But as far as dating goes, I guess we'll see. Maybe you know somebody you can set me up with. I mean, my son... My son would kill me for saying this by the way. But I mean, Charlie, he's a nice kid, he's 20 years old, he's very motivated and I like to think he comes from a good family and he's humble.

But he's gonna crucify me for saying this. That's funny. Funny story though, one of my MLP teammates, he's 26 and he tries to set me up with all of his friends. Every time we go to a tournament and his friends come, he's like, you know, lead this one. I'm like, Will, stop trying to set me up with all your friends.

It's like so funny. He's trying to set me up on the weekly basis. I think so. 10 years from now, when you're still going to be considered as a goat of pickleball, what if you could go back and tell yourself something, 10 years, what would you say to yourself,

10 years in the future from today? Probably just going back, watching this. Probably I would tell myself to just enjoy it. I feel like especially the last couple years, like I haven't really like enjoyed it that much. Like I've had fun in what I'm doing but it's like I never really like sit back and like think about what I'm really doing and like Annali this is really cool like all the things you're getting to do and everything.

Like I feel like right now I'm just like I need to get better, I need to work which I also have to do that but probably in 10 years I'm gonna be Annali, you probably should have enjoyed it a little bit more. Because right now, it feels like my life's crazy, and I'm always doing stuff. And sometimes I'm like, I just kind of want to be home. But I feel like in 10 years from now, it'll be like, Annali, what you did was awesome, and you should enjoy it.

We're getting to the end of our show now. I always conclude the end of the show with a game I call Fill in the Blank to Excellence. Are you ready to play? Yeah, let's play. The number one goal in my life is to be the best my number one personal goal is To be kind the biggest lesson I've learned in my life is losing isn't the end of the world my biggest regret is Going crazy after some matches probably

my biggest fear is? Not reaching my potential. The craziest thing that's happened in my career is? A college soccer coach asking me to come play soccer at their university. How much money was the professional soccer team in Germany going to pay you? Nothing. Nothing? I think we were actually going to have to pay to go through the program.

Also, when I first started playing pickleball, we weighed how much money I could be making if I was the best soccer player ever, like Alex Morgan. And then we weighed what I was going to be making the first year of my pickleball career. We were like people in professional women's soccer making like $30,000 on average to play in the soccer team. And in pickleball, I was going to be making that my first year. So we were like, that's probably the better option. Jessica Berman was on my show.

She's the CEO, president of Women's Major League Soccer. We're a team just sold by Willow Bay, leading the team, just sold for $250 million. Wow, that's awesome. Where I think a professional women's team years ago would have been a few million dollars. Wow, where I think a professional women's team years ago would have been a few million dollars again, it's commensurate with TD revenues that are coming to come into sport and the explosion of popularity and

Women's female soccer. Yeah, that's all I love soccer. So I love seeing it do well, especially on the women's side So that's really cool to hear the funniest thing that's happened in my career is It's really cool to hear. The funniest thing that's happened in my career is? Funniest thing that's happened in my career. I played in an exhibition once and I played really bad and I don't know, I thought it was pretty funny because I was like missing like really easy shots and the people thought I was gonna be good

and I was like terrible that day. I don't know what was going through my mind, but that was pretty funny. The best advice I've ever received is? Just be you. The best advice I could give to any 17 year old is? Just be you. The best advice I could give to any 17 year old is? Just be you. 10 years from now I'm going to be doing?

Something in pickleball or having a family. Both? One or the other. I don't know. I don't know that I could play professional pickleball and like be a mother and like have a family. So I think probably the latter. I'll probably be retired by then, but that's kind of's I'd only be 27. So I don't know that's I haven't figured it out yet

20 years from now. I'm going to be doing Something business related in pickleball if you could pick one trait that's contributed to your success. It is my positivity The one thing I've dreamed about doing for a long time, but haven't is playing in the Olympics Do you think Olympics is coming to take a ball? I do I don't pick a ball I'll probably the next like eight years I would say like maybe Australia the single grade it the single greatest athlete of all time is Oh, this is tough because what I'm gonna pick might not be the single greatest athlete of all time But I love Roger Federer, so I'm gonna have to say him. Have you met Roger? I have not. Do you want to meet Roger? I do.

So how are you gonna do that? Well my agent Kelly Wolf knows a lot of people in tennis, so maybe one day... I've actually hit with Martina Hingis, who is number one in the world in women's tennis, because she knew her, but she doesn't know anybody close enough to Roger, so I don't know. I need somebody who knows Roger pretty well. I actually don't think you do. I think, you know, I've made my career cold calling people, doing outrageous things, and I bet if Kelly calls Roger's agent and she obviously can get the name and just say that you wanted to meet Roger, Roger is definitely going to meet with you.

I would even fly to Switzerland. We went to Switzerland last year for our vacation. It was like the best vacation ever. So I would go back to Switzerland to meet Roger. The one question you wish I'd asked you but didn't is why I started playing professional pickleball. Why did you start playing professional pickleball? Because I loved it. How much is passion important to our success? Passion is very important to our success, especially my success because if I didn't love pickleball, I definitely wouldn't have continued to do it. I played tennis for four years and decided to stop because I didn't love it anymore.

So that probably would have happened to pickleball, but I still love pickleball, so I keep playing it. This has been a great interview. I'm so happy that you're here. Thank you so much. I loved it. Been a fan for a while. Gonna continue to be a fan.

Now that I know you, I hope I'm gonna be able to get good tickets to my first pickleball event that I've never been to. For sure. Only if you bring your son though. Okay, I'll bring my son. By the way, I'll say this, I'll say this as well on camera. Charlie is a very good pickleball player for the amount of times that he plays. He's played. And he loves to taunt me on this and he can pickle me which is which means you lose 11 nothing. I've done that in a pro tournament. I've actually super pickled someone which is where you start serving and you continue out the entire game serving like you didn't even side out. Love it. Love it. I appreciate you coming. I know you're very busy you're going down a

tournament. Hope you crush it. Hope you continue to follow your career.