In Search Of Excellence - Flex Lewis Unfiltered Interview: Training Motivation, Workouts & Bodybuilding for Mr. Olympia | E107

Episode Date: April 4, 2024

Welcome to another episode of In Search of Excellence! My guest today is the incredible Flex Lewis. Flex is a serial entrepreneur, coach, motivational speaker, and one of the greatest bodybuilders of all time. He has won 7 consecutive Mr. Olympia titles.He's also the co-owner of Arsenal, strength gym equipment, the fastest-growing fitness equipment company in the world and the owner of the famous Dragon's Lair Gym in Las Vegas. Time stamps:00:55 Flex’s family and backgroundGrew up in a loving home in WalesHis father was a steel worker and his mother a nurseDecided to be a millionaire as a kid 03:52 Born with a rugby ball in the mouthHe started playing rugby at the age of 6His full name is Steven James LewisFlex is a nickname he got as a kid 06:27 The pressure to better himselfA pressure to become betterHis first entrepreneurial momentDelivering papers on his bikeLearned responsibility and dealing with money13:22 Investing the money he earnedBought a male and female finchStarted breeding and selling them 15:57 Starting a moving companyPowerlifting and starting a moving companyBought his first truck and developed the businessWent an extra mile to do a good job 22:05 Learning from the QuadfatherSpent weekends at his grandparentsDiscovered a book by Tom Platz at 12The book changed his lifeFound weights and started doing squats 26:23 His parents’ worriesHis parents were afraid it would stunt his growthStayed away from training weights for a number of yearsFunny story about his father catching him squatting 28:30 Steve Naylor and his influenceFlex had a lot of admiration for SteveHe was drawn by his humilityStarted training with SteveBodybuilding is all about mind-muscle connection 32:19 Elbow injury and getting a tattooSpent the whole summer building his motocross bikeHad an accident and broke his elbowAfter removing the plaster cast, his arm was deadHad to make it stronger by himselfA tattoo on the weakened arm 38:53 Working in silence and achieving thingsDidn’t like school but liked PE teachersHe had dyslexia or ADHD, was labeled stupidHow schools were failing kids by discouraging themPracticing a handstand and the first day at school 47:26 The first powerlifting competitionFrom high-level rugby to powerlifting showBodybuilding in Wales is a big thingThe competition was held in the Royal Princess Theatre 51:59 Getting on a bodybuilding stageWas drawn by a free gym membershipChanged his diet and watched a lot of VHS videosThe competition and the alter egoPerformed great and won the showDeciding to prepare for British nationalsA 20-year relationship with his coachThe importance of loyalty 1:01:40 Chasing dreams and making sacrificesWinning the British NationalsGot an invitation from GolSponsors:Sandee | Bliss: BeachesWant to Connect? Reach out to us online!Website | Instagram | LinkedIn

Free gym membership was really what got me onto a bodybuilding stage. There was posters that would go up every single year about the Mr. Wales. I had the interest, don't get me wrong, I just said I loved the muscle. I never see myself on a bodybuilding stage, especially in a speedo. I was like, that's not going to happen. Get a knock on the window and this gentleman standing there. It's like, hey, you're going to do the British Nationals? He gave the whole brave, hard speech of why you need to represent Wales

against England and Scotland and Ireland, because we're the smallest nation in the British nationals. He gave the whole brave, hard speech of why you need to represent Wales against England and Scotland and Ireland, because we're the smallest nation in the British Isles. So he gave that speech and I was like, okay, I look at my parents and they're like, okay, how long? Four weeks. Welcome to In Search of Excellence, where we meet entrepreneurs, CEOs, entertainers, athletes, motivational speakers, and trailblazers of excellence with incredible stories from all walks of life. My name is Randall Kaplan. I'm a serial entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and the host of In Search

of Excellence, which I started to motivate and inspire us to achieve excellence in all areas of our lives. My guest today is the incredible Flex Lewis. Flex is a serial entrepreneur, coach, motivational speaker, and is one of the greatest bodybuilders of all time who has won seven consecutive Mr. Olympia titles. He's also the co-owner of Arsenal Strength Gym Equipment, the fastest-growing fitness equipment company in the world, and the owner of the famous Dragon's Lair workout gym in Las Vegas.

Flex, true pleasure to have you on my show. Welcome to A Search of Excellence. My pleasure. Good to finally pull this off. Super psyched to be here. Yes. So you grew up in a working class town of Linali, Wales. Yes, sir.

One of five children. Your mom was a nurse who had some health problems. Your dad worked in the steel industry for 45 years. Can you tell us about your mom's not being able to work, there's some health issues, and your dad's double shifts as well? Well, you've done the prep for this, I see. Firstly, I came from very humble upbringings. Blue collar town.

As you mentioned, my father was in steel. My grandfather was in coal. My mom was a nurse, unfortunately, disabled at the end of life. So I grew up in a very loving household. But yet from a very young age, I knew that if I wanted something, I really had to go out and earn it myself. And yeah, that's the mentality that's really kind of stuck with me throughout my life. You're motivated as a kid. And at some point you told your parents, you want to be a millionaire.

How did that go down? Again, coming from the small town that I came from, there was not many people that, it was nobody that we knew that was a millionaire. No millionaires? No, I mean, people that were. Did you read about it? Did you read Forbes back then?

Good question. Let me think. I just, American culture was very big in U.K. forbes back in back then blue collar time good question let me think uh i just uh american culture was very big in uk and obviously you get to see everything on tv and that was the allure and obviously there's things on on there that i aspired i wanted as a kid now i never looked at people who had nice things houses cars with cars, with any type of envy. I wanted to know how they'd done it and how I could achieve getting that, whatever it was.

And then, again, success is chased from whatever avenue. So my mentality to going out and putting my heart back to front and going after things, like I said, came from a very young age. But the mentality of wanting to be better myself, I couldn't tell you where that came from, but I knew from a very young age that I knew that I was going to be much bigger than the town that I came from. Was it your dad working double shifts and your mom, after she was able to work, she's home taking care of you and just seeing your dad working by the hour,

tired, sleeping during the day when he comes home home at, what, 6 in the morning? And just exhausted, right? Well, my father was called Continental Chef, so he'd work one week nights, one week mornings, one week afternoons. His body clock was all over the place. But yet he never missed a rugby game, never missed any type of coaching. Probably he was my coach as well for rugby. And my mom was always there, always present. But the mentality of trying to demand like a chase on life,

whether it was monetary, whatever else, was really to change my family. And I'm sure we'll speak about this more later on in the episode. But my goal was, when I got into anything I've ever done, was to not only better myself, but then create the opportunity to better my family. So that was one of my biggest drives, even to this day. Well, Natalie, one of the most famous rugby talents in the world. You grew up in rugby.

Your grandfather, your dad, was a semi-professional coach. Your mom was the team manager. So how old were you? And did you just get into it? Your brother played as well yeah one of your younger brothers yeah um when you're born in wales you get born with a rugby ball in your mouth in your mouth yeah in your hand so um it was a natural progression for me to to find myself chasing well what i thought was going to be my end cap, my professional sport, which

is rugby. So at a very young age, six, I started playing. I got my nickname Flex from that at a very young age. Your real name is James. I don't think a lot of people know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you speak to TSA, it's Stephen, because my middle name is James. So I go by all names.

Okay. Yeah, I got many different names. Who calls you that? Your mom calls you that before she passed away? You know, she's angry at you? No, my mother's still around. Oh, your mom's still around. Yeah, she's still, yeah, yeah.

But she, the only people that call me James are my family. But if they're at the Olympia, they will call me Flex. Okay. But I, that's kind of something that's personal. Like James to me is, I only hear that when I'm with family. My wife calls me James. But then when she refers to me, it's Flex. So there's a dynamic we play. But Steven is the name that I'll hear when I do any type of government official stuff because it's my, Steven James Lewis is my full name. But yeah,

Flex has been my name and has been throughout school. All the teachers call me Flex. And when I got into bodybuilding, of course, there's another great bodybuilder called Flex. And I had to fight that, too, when I got into bodybuilding. So I feel like I've managed to carve my own path outside of the legacy that the other Flex created. But, again, I didn't come into this sport and call myself Flex. I was already called Flex way before I even put a portion pair of trunks on. It's a Hall of Fame name. You know, I always say to people,

I have a friend named Tony Ferrari. I mean, that's one of the greatest names ever. Great name. He's one of our portfolio companies, co-founder named Shani Darden. So shout out to one of our portfolio companies. It's a women makeup company. Sell one of the number one retinol products

in the United States. So kind of got to plug one of my... You got to plug any? Yeah. I love plugging all my friends and anybody I'm around with. I love putting people on a pedestal, shall I say, more than myself in many cases. So plug away. So you got five kids in your family, two younger brothers, and you're the older one.

A lot of pressure on you growing up. Talk about that. Yeah, I felt that pressure from a very young age. And I think without pressure, you can do one of two things, right? It can make you or break you. On every show or any type of sport I've ever achieved, I've always put a lot of pressure on myself. I'm very competitive, but it also allows me to demand the best version of myself

every time I stepped on a track, every time I stepped on a rugby field, every time I, for the first time I stepped on a bodybuilding show stage. The pressure has always been there, but being the oldest sibling, I felt it was kind of like a, I adopted the role of taking care of my parents from a very young age. So that pressure of trying to chase what I ended up becoming and leaving my family was all driven, again, to better everybody's life back home. And during this, you know, this chase and stuff, I could have come back home many times.

You know, I could have gone back to Wales and lived maybe a different life, but I knew what I was doing in the United States, I was chasing greatness, and I was also opening the doors for me to, you know, change my parents' lives too. Obviously, the double-edged sword to that is I lost all that time. My mom, my dad, all the parties, all the small little things that we kind of take for granted when you live in and around everybody. I had to do it from afar, through Zoom, through Skype.

But again, it was losing out on these milestones, losing out on birthdays, losing out on many kisses, you know, funerals, whatever I couldn't be back home for, was a driving force for me to change my life and change how it would be around me too, as I mentioned. So we'll talk about where you got into bodybuilding at 15 years old in a minute, but you got the drive, you have the entrepreneurial instinct, you know, you were born with it. How's about the paper round 11 and the finches at 13?

Oh man. So the paper round was probably one of my first entrepreneurial experiences. What I'd done, so living in Wales, everything's all hills. And there was two paper routes that would meet. Like San Francisco hills where they're way up or are they 100-foot hills? In some cases, yeah. San Francisco is very impressive. But these are kind of like windy hills with houses on the side. So I lived on top of a hill. And it's where two paper roads met.

So I got to talk into these kids that are older than me and I said, when you're done with these paper rolls, I'll take them. Ended up happening. One of the guys, you know,

when you get to a certain age, you forfeit your round. Right. And the other person forfeited their round pretty much the same time period. I'd take them both. And what I'd done was I started collecting different rounds

and then... Did you pay for them or they just said, hey, I'm retired? You inherit the round. So you do a certain route. But there was a lot of kids that wanted these things. They were very popular, especially when you're young. And I ended up selling them to these other kids and taking a cut of the top every single week. So it was like an entrepreneurial moment. But the finches kind of came... Before the finches, so what kind of dough are we talking about? And you're on a bicycle going up these hills?

Walk. You can't ride that thing. You can't ride it at all. I mean, downhill is cool. What's that? Riding downhill is cool, but it means walk. What did you pay for them, and then what did you sell them for? So these guys who worked at the newsagent, the owner of the newsagent, would drop

off the complete round. All I had to do is put the right papers in the right houses. So you're carrying walking up hills with 30 papers? A bale. There was like a satchel. Okay, what did it weigh? Oh my god, good question.

Probably like 50, 60 pounds full of paper. That's a lot. You're a kid, your back must have been fucking killing you. Oh, my God. Good question. Probably like 50, 60 pounds full of paper. As a young kid, your back must have been fucking killing you. Oh, my legs were huge. Because I was walking up all them hills. Yeah. Yeah, but honestly, there was a job to be done. And having seen my dad walk to work for the most part of his working career,

because it was only one car, my mom had to take us to school. You know, it's like, it's part and parcel of it. It rains for the most part in Wales anyway. So every day you're in that rain you walk in you're really learning a lesson without even knowing learning a lesson you're you're starting to learn like okay i have a duty i have obligation i have to get up when the alarm goes i have to get these papers out because then i have to get ready to go to school. So I do this all before school. And then additionally, once a week after school, you would have to go and pick up the money from these people who are paying for the papers. So it taught me communicative skills. And me being, you know, Jack the Lad, amongst close rugby circles, I was, you know,

Chatty Cathy, whatever else else but then it taught me to talk to a different audience um an older audience so i had to kind of find a lot at the right level so you start building rapport with people you start being you know the face that they all love and obviously tips resemble that every week then you know a lot of older people kind of you know i got a little bit of a cheeky charm, I guess, that people can fall in love with. But that really was, again, dealing with money too. All these little things became lessons that served me later on in life. So at that same time period, I started looking into other things. And Finch's.

What was the dough that you were making for the paper route? Do you remember? I mean, you're 11 years old. I mean, $5 is probably huge, right? Yeah, I think it was probably like what I got paid and then tips. I got more from tips. But it wasn't kind of like a weekday job where you

earn your tips. This was, not many people get tips. I just was in, I mean, I built my database up with all these relationships with these people. So one pound or 50 pence from every house and you're doing X amount of houses, it all adds up per week.

And then I would have a base pay too, maybe 10 pounds or something like that. But I was having more fun, but it was nothing. But again, it was lessons learned. And again, dealing with people, customers, different customers were more approachable than others. And the ones that weren't, I was like, okay, let me figure out a way of how I can get these guys and girls and women to fall in love with a paperboy, you know? So there was definitely, as I said, lessons learned during that period of time. More than anything else, it was getting up and having a purpose in the morning and also having truly, like I said, an obligation that I had to fulfill.

And through that, through reps and sets and over a period of months and years, you start compounding all these lessons learned and you find it transitioning into your day-to-day life. And yes, I was 12, right? 12, 13. But I started looking, because I was making money, I started looking at how I can invest my money into different things.

And like I said, the Finches were the next evolution of that. Okay, so tell us about the Finches. First of all, what is a Finch? Oh, yeah, okay. And then what are we talking about? Because you started with 2, 4, 50, and then what are we talking about because you you started with two four fifty and then a hundred and so yeah yeah it was a domino effect i never went into to get as many as i did but the finches uh were there were zebra finches right zebra

finches they call them you care and i went to the local pet shop bought a male and a female put them in a cage of course they done their thing then that turned into we're talking about birds birds yes yes yes yes finches zebra finches are birds now these things are probably sold for about five pound a pair right and then once i started breeding these i started investing more into the cages and everything else so there was a lot of upfront cost that i put into it yeah and then it turned into a very lucrative business when I was selling the finches back to the pet shop for one pound each. And of course, when you've got many that are going to town in the cages, you know, that turns into

quick residual income. But the finches were the first part. And then it transitioned then into canariesaries then it transitioned into parakeets and then it turned into parrots and then full circle it turned into racing pigeons so you said something that the finches would do your do their thing so i've never thought about finches or birds fucking before? Is that something that you see or are they just touching each other? They're at it.

Yeah, these things are little horn-eared buggers. So is one fish mounting the other finch? I'm just curious how. I've never thought about that before. Have you seen how birds breed? They jump on the back of the bird and then that little tail is literally trying to scoop itself underneath.

So I'm sure there's some sort of smut page out there with bird breeding. I'm sure you can find it. But no, there's different, obviously, birds, different breeding styles. And then some birds take years, years to court, and then they'll end up breeding. So see it as like you go through a honeymoon stage, they get engaged, they get married, they have kids. That's how pirates are.

That's why they're so expensive, because sometimes it takes years to get their first clutch. With finches, I mean, you could put a female and a male in together with the same cage, and they're like at it within an hour. Yeah. They realize that, okay, this is a nest. They go straight into what their DNA is, and that's to breed and nurture and then fledge,

and then they're on to the next clutch. So I think in some businesses that we think about, we start businesses, we sell businesses, but we think about being different. Yep. Right? And you just do the same thing, you're going to have mediocre results. That's the exact definition of mediocre. Absolutely. So you started a moving company. Yep. Right? And you just do the same thing, you're going to have mediocre results. That's the exact definition of mediocre.

Absolutely. So you started a moving company. Yes. And you did things totally different than everybody else. You had these bulky, massive dudes like you. I mean, you were not a thin, thin guy. I mean, when I was younger, I was tall. I was short, thin as a rail,

and didn't have the same physique as I had when I got in my 20s or 30s. But tell us what you did and how important is being different when you start a new business to your success? Absolutely. So, during that time period that I was getting into the birds, I was also now powerlifting. I started training in my first gym. You're 15, but we'll get to that. Yes, yes, yes. And again, I'll answer the question, but kind of give little tidbits.

So I'd already developed a physique. And obviously I was training for the powerlifting, doing a little bit of bodybuilding and stuff. When I started up my first company, which was a moving company, it was in college. And again, the same kind of small-town mentality. It's not going to work. You don't know what you're doing.

People told you that. Absolutely. The haters and the naysayers who don't have the same drive or motivation as you have. It's amazing to me that I've had that so much throughout my life where people have said, oh, do you know what you're doing?

If I didn't, I wouldn't be committing myself. You wouldn't know if I wasn't confident in me doing what I was doing. That's the only reason why you know about what I'm doing, right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So they were like, oh, I don't know. It's too late. Oh, I don't know.

And again, that transitioned into me coming to America. But the same people said, oh, it's big and risky. You don't know what you're doing, and maybe I didn't, but I was willing to take the risk, and what I went through and the diligence that I'd done in my small little town, moving companies, the traditional moving companies, very big, big, the van, I'm sorry.

So you'd have this big van that turns up, and as it's a small blue-collar town, these houses are fitting maybe a quarter of that van. So I seen this, and I was like, this is a business model here. And he was in the United States, you know, FedEx trucks as an example for me. Obviously, I hadn't been to the United States at that point in time, but again, America is so prevalent on all the TVs. I seen the FedEx trucks and the small trucks these guys were in,

plus the uniforms. And I was like, wow, that's where I'm going. So I went completely against the grain. I purchased my first van. I had a grant from Prince Trust. Prince Charles is Prince of Charity.

And then I saved my ass off. I sold all my birds and I done all that stuff, but I put everything into this. And I truly believe when you're all into something, you know, you burn the ships. And that's what my mentality was going into me starting my first business. And it took off tenfold.

Well, first of all, it was just me and a van, one man and a van. And then I realized soon enough then that I needed somebody else. And then by the end of it, I had 11 employees and vans and my mother was my receptionist and I truly built enough then that I needed somebody else. And then by the end of it, I had 11 employees and funds. And my mother was my receptionist. And I truly built a business that mentioned earlier, won three Young Businessmen Awards.

Young Businessmen, the awards, an award of Prince Charles. And I had scholarships for being in business at a young age. But that mentality, I used what I was doing in the gym, physicality, to sell the product off to. So when we would do something with the local community and you get a picture in the paper, it's like all my guys are all, you know, primed, proper, uniform, everybody was big. But what we got our business from was word of mouth.

Small town, again, you go the extra mile, which, again, has transitioned throughout my life to the small things. And that word of mouth got us pretty much 90-something percent of my business. Now, I had ads in the other pages talking about my wins, and I won this business, Young Men Business Award, and XYZ. But it was word of mouth that really got me in. Oh, you move my auntie or you move my cousin or you move whoever, right?

And having staff then who embodied my morals and my integrity and the language that I wanted to have spoken, so much so as to the P's and Q's of, yes, ma'am, no, sir, where would you like this? Absolutely no problem. Go any extra mile, right? Trans like this absolutely no problem go on the extra mile right transition this skyrocket us in the business in the small town so much so that i was turning down

so much work because it was just me and my crew so um when i got into the bodybuilding that's the next transition i don't know if you want to talk about that. Yeah. It was really during my second year of having my company and I started competing whilst moving people. Oh, horrendous. When you're on low carbs and you're basically eating from a Tupperware box in the van and you're digging deep. I won every one of my amateur shows whilst I had my company

and I was moving two to three people a day. And I was exhausted, absolutely exhausted. But when I walked into that house, that alter ego, whatever you want to call it, that switch, I was in mode. If somebody wanted something moved, that originally wanted it downstairs and wanted it back up on the third floor, for example, no problem. And if they decided to put it back down, no problem. The rule of thumb was you only could swear and mourn when you're in the van and we're driving away and suffice to say you know during that period of time I was able to scale not only what I was doing on the amateur stage I was also

able to scale my businesses but also combine both so anytime I had press regarding my Mr. Universe win or European win, whatever it would be, I made sure that the business also had its own love and mention too. Because truly it was part of the element, right? I was able to win these shows whilst basically being a full-time entrepreneur, businessman. Let's back up a little bit. 12 years old. You have an aunt. Yes. She's a nurse and she goes to the UK somewhere. Tell us about your aunt, your grandparents visit and the quad father, not the godfather, the quad father. So I was a very active young kid and that's an understatement.

I was into everything and I would have weekends away at my grandparents I think it was more of a relief for my parents with you know my brothers as well for me to go out the house as a wild child and I'd go to my parents house and I can't at my grandparents house and different environment different atmosphere my grandparents were like extended parents of mine but of course course, I had, you know, the novelty of having them making me cups of tea. You know what I mean? It was the small little things.

So living every weekend at my grandparents' house, I would rummage through the, you know, the bookshelves and see what I could find. My auntie used to live in that house. She was living in London now at the time. But she would come back, bring some of her stuff back. And one of the things that she brought back was a book.

Me being the nosy little 12-year-old kid, I discovered this book. And it was on Tom Platz, who was, as you mentioned, known for his quad development, incredible quad development, one of the 90s guys, 80s, 90s guys,

Arnold era. 30 inch quad. guys. Arnold Era. 30-inch quad. Stupid. 30-inch. So we're talking about... Oh, I could use... You're not this wide, right? It's somebody's waist.

12, 24, 30. It's somebody's waist. Yeah. Think about that, right? Yeah. And this guy, never seen him before. Never knew who he was. But this book blew my mind pulling this out it was my

first true interaction of of any type of bodybuilding or bodybuilder and i would go through this book back and front i'd put it in and i'd pull it back out i'd read it again and i seen tom squatting and i was like okay that's how my that's how you get big legs. So I decided at that age to try to seek out some weights. Now at 12, you can only ask so many people, right? But I found out coincidentally, my dad had some old set of Weeder weights. Remember the old Plastia weights? He had a set in the shed up the garden.

So I ended up waiting for my parents to leave. Now in Wales, your house is, well, I lived anyway. My house was lower up the garden. So I ended up waiting for my parents to leave. Now, in Wales, your house is, well, I lived anyway, my house was lower than my garden. So imagine the house is there, you have to go up the garden, up the stairs, the concrete steps, and then the garden levels off.

So I waited for my parents to leave, and I pulled these old weights out, and again, they were heavy. I rolled them down the steps, through the house, up my set of stairs, into my bedroom, hid them under my bed. And every night I would pull out this Tom Platz book. And I was like, okay, this is how you squat.

So I'd put it on the bed. Horrible form, of course. Thank God I was like young and an injured back then. I'd find the bar on my back and I would start doing reps. One rep turned to two, turned to three, to four, et cetera. And yeah, my little work of regime got caught by my dad later on in life. But it was that book, though, that truly changed my life. And Tom Platz was one of them people

who planted that seed in my head to get into, I say, physique development. And I can't remember the, what would it be? When you're looking for a car and you start seeing that car everywhere, what's it be? When you're looking for a car and you start seeing that car everywhere, what's that term? You know, again, you might not see a, you go and buy a Lamborghini

because you haven't seen it before. Then you're driving down the street and you see three Lamborghinis. That's how I found with, I got my first book on bodybuilding. I started seeing it everywhere. And WWF at the time was massive. So I'd sneak downstairs, young age,

and watch WWF two or three in the morning and see all the greats like Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, who all back in that day had incredible physique. So these things subconsciously planted something in my head where later on in life, obviously we're now here talking about what happened next, right?

But at that time, it was all down to rugby and being the biggest rugby player on the field, on the biggest legs. That's how it started. So many people, so many successful people I know, their parents tell them not to do something, and they do it anyway. It's sort of like every kid's DNA, right?

I mean, you're probably not going to be that. I don't know what percent of the kids just say, hey, okay, my parents tell me I'm never going to do that before. But what's the message there? Should we be listening to our parents? I don't know. I don't want to get any in trouble. But I definitely did listen.

You've got two young kids. What are you going to do as a parent? Yeah, that's true. The shoe is on the other foot now. But obviously I didn't listen to my parents, right? Because at that young age of 15, my parents thought that I was going to stunt my growth. I mean, listen, my parents were both five foot five, five foot six, I had no chance in hell to be six foot, right?

So I know what they were thinking, but needless to say, I listened to the, obviously the threat, I guess it was, of being short for the rest of my life. Nothing ever changed. But I stayed away from training weights for a number of years. In fact, funny story,

I was in my bedroom squatting away and being, you know, 15 years old, testosterone is through the roof at that age. And my father heard along my mother, I'm sure downstairs, you know, all this huffing and puffing. And my dad chatted through the door. I think he was expecting something else

happening in the room. Being a rambunctious 12, 15 year old old i think he was also glad that i wasn't doing what he thought i was sneaking the girl in the ladder oh yeah or maybe solo too i don't know but either way the huffing and the puffing was enough so he came in the door and he was like okay no yes no okay and but again my mother involved being a nurse she's seen the worst of everything right so she was more so concerned about something else happening. And I don't blame her now looking back because, again, she's seen so much issues that came in through casualty when she was a nurse.

But I knew that the bug was in my body. So I rejoined the gym later on. And at that time, it was really focused on powerlifting, which was really home towards the rugby sort of things. The first gym you went in, you were 15 years old for the first time. So talk about Steve Naylor, and then you can talk about the progression of what happened. You bring back some memories. So Steve Naylor was an incredible athlete, very amateur.

I'm sorry, very Arnold-esque. Arnold Schwarzenegger, one of your idols. Yes, one of them. Big arms, small waist, just classic physique. If you looked at him, he was tall, also like Arnold. Very quiet guy. And me being, you know, loud and being a rugby boy, it was truly something that I had a lot of admiration for Steve

because there this guy looked like a Greek god. And yet he didn't front it. He didn't show off. He was always hidden away. But when he peeled that top off and you seen him in the gym in a tank top, you were like, oh, my gosh. And that draw of having that humility and having such a world class physique drew me towards Steve. And how we ended up connecting in the gym, I was powerlifting at the time.

Started powerlifting, like I said, to help with the rugby because we don't have pads, we don't have any type of helmets or anything like that. So you really have to build your structure up to take the impact. But I was always, I always caught myself wanting to do the bodybuilding move once. And I did, just away from the courts of powerlifting. But it was Steve that couldn't keep any training apart. There's a leg day.

And leg day is half your body. That's the hardest workout you can do. But everybody was there for chest. Everybody was there for arms. But when it came to legs, they were running late or they had to do something. So I said, hey, hey you know if there's ever an opportunity let's go now so and i've used this rule of thumb throughout my career if you

want to train with me turn up on leg day and then we discuss part two and that's the test that was put through and steve um invited me to train with him and then we trained with each other for a number of years. I also started thinking outside the box at that age. Steve was an old school bodybuilder. I bought his food, never weighed anything out, got in great shape to win the Mr. Wales and the overalls, but then there's another level to go to Mr. Britain. At a young age, as soon as I started committing myself to bodybuilding, I was like, I need to really start looking into the nutrition element of things, you know.

So what I ended up doing later on, and I will fill in the gaps, is connect Steve with my then nutritionist, and that guy just found a whole new stride. So what I done was, and I also found myself being this guy too, surrounding whole new stride. So what I'd done was, and I also found myself being this guy too, surrounding myself with young athletes. Steve at the time I think was close to 40, if not 40, and here I was this 19

year old with a snapper, young bull, needed to be put in the right direction of things, that came in with an energy and a vibe that put fire under his tail too that he not had from any other training partner. And in turn, he put it in me. But also I got the experience of learning reps and sets

and truly learning the biomechanics of the body. Body powerlifting is all A to B. Strongman, same thing. Bodybuilding is all about mind-to-muscle connection, segregating the muscle that you're training on. And that's what I learned with Steve, was truly learning how to train for bodybuilding. And again, turning up every day,

being committed to our training partnership. And also, again, the loyalty of bringing my A game every single day as he did brought to mind so we truly grew together where we went on the road

and started scooping up all these trophies and I'm sure we'll speak about that later on but Steve was an incredible incredible training

partner and I'm very blessed to have had him as my first training partner back in Wales Tell us about the tattoo you got when you were 15 years old. What did it mean and what was the meaning? What made you get it?

Let's get a photo of the tattoo. I don't know if you guys can see this. Here, pull it all the way up. This is almost like well lopsided. But that's my country's flag, Wales. Okay. And this was there way back around my bicep and so I broke my elbow and this was prior to meeting Steve and all this right so I broke my

elbow me being you know kid right don't don't tell me dad mom I I shouldn't do this because I will this time it didn't serve me well. I had Welsh trials coming up in two or three weeks' time during this day. And all summer, I'd built this motocross bike. My mother hated bikes again. It goes back to what I said about her seeing the worst cases and casualty of these people coming in. Yeah.

And built this bike, you know the bells and whistles on it to my financial mobility and then the boys brought this bike up first day of summer holiday and my mother was like don't go on this bike don't go on this bike and it was way too powerful for me i mean i was only about 100 and something pounds of that back then and we took it down to this area where most of the kids were would their bikes. And always the last jump. And the last jump, I came around this corner. I was creating new tracks. The grass was a bit this high next to the derrick field.

There was a building being built. I think it was an extension of a school. And any type of off-shape brick, they were throwing them over the fence. So when I cleared this grass, I see this mound of bricks looking at me about four feet. And I just was coming around like Speedway racing. My back end was coming around and I just hit this on sight, went up in the air. My motocross top got stuck in the handlebars. The bike fell on top of me, full throttle, ripping the inside of my leg apart. And of course, I fell looking at all my friends who were standing on top of this mount that I was doing jumps over.

And they all just run, stopped. So me being the young kid, younger than them two, a little embarrassed, I was like, I'm good. Threw the bike off me. As soon as I give them the all clear as if I was okay I didn't realize that I'd already dislocated my my elbow but in straightening it I did I broke it too so we went to the hospital of course I had to make that call to my mom I was like I told you so kind of thing right um but she was snapped straight into nurse mom mode and she kind of gave me a quick little told you not to do this kind of thing I can't believe you've done this and then straight into caring okay we're going to take care of this and during that time

period i was in a in a band-aid you know like a plaster cast in this position for about eight weeks summer holidays all my friends are doing stuff they're going to you know hanging out doing things at the lake doing all kinds of things all these things that I excitingly planned in my head that were taken off the table I had my moments um where I was like I can't believe I've done this yada yada but then I started putting more confidence into what I was going to do when I got out of this and that mentality as I said it's been served me in many different chapters but during this time, again, I was young. For me, I was chasing girls. All this stuff was taken off the table.

I said, okay, when I get out to this plaster cast, this is what I want to do. And I started listing these way above the bar kind of stuff that I hadn't even achieved, probably being in a plaster cast. And they were doing a backflip walking on my hands and many other different things so fast forward i get the plaster cast cut off of course when you're in this movement and you've got tiny little movement else when i get out to this i'm healed thinking i'm wolverine right they cut the plaster cast off my arm just flopped and that was the

reality i faced back then it was like wow my arm is completely dead like it was there was very little movement so I had to strengthen it back up fast and there was no rehab therapy or any type of therapist telling me this is where you need to start first day I went to the kitchen I pulled a can of beans out I was like this is what's going to strengthen my arm up started off with a can of beans out. I was like, this is what's going to strengthen my arm up. Started off with a can of beans. Then I progressed a little bit heavier, probably a bag of sugar. And yeah, it just progressed fast. I started getting my strength back slowly, but surely. And during that time period, tell you where the tattoo comes in, because I wanted to give more context. There was a tattoo artist that lived up the street to me and i was so conscious about my arm being

much smaller than this arm i had my nickel and flex at that point in time as well so this arm was pre-developed this one was thin being in a plastic cast so i went to the tattoo artist and i was like hey knocked his door this guy answers the door food all over his shirt and shit i was like uh i'm here for a tattoo of Of course, I lowered my voice, right? Because you have to be 18. And he's like, hold you. 18? You're not 18.

I was like, yes, I am. Get your mother's consent. I was like, okay. So I already prepared. I went up the street, sat on the wall for a second. I already wrote the note. The so-and-so. Yeah.

My son has the consent signed. You know, I was used to doing it in school. Right. You only had a cell phone back then. No, no, no,

there was nothing. It was good. It was a dial up. Yeah, it was a dial up. Yeah, I would have been calling. But yeah,

went back to the house. Of course, I made it seem as I went home, when I came back, you knew what I was doing, I'm sure. But legality wise, I'm sure he was out of jail there,

you know. So went back in, he'd done this tattoo and I looked at it, I was like, oh, that's cool. Went back to school.

And what I wanted to do was take the attention off the fact that I had hurt my arm. I didn't want to repeat myself and, you know, boo-hoo me. And I am missed out in the summer holidays. People are talking about doing this, doing that. I had a tattoo on my arm. How cool is that? What I didn't realize is when my arms started getting bigger, this tattoo was

going to slide back more um but going back to what the things that i manifested in my head and i started telling myself at a very young age first week back in school um every started changing exchanging stories and stuff i had already started during that time period of time to do handstands and when you left school there was only a few people that could truly do a handstand nobody could walk on their hands

now the goal was for a PE teacher which I love massive mentor to me when I was a young kid both of them what are their names just to give a shout out

yeah Mr. Owens and Mr. Jones respectfully I could tell them their first name, but I still call them sir, and I still call them mister, even though they tell me all the time. Are they still alive? Absolutely.

All right. Massive. You've got to get them to watch the show. I think it's so important to call out your mentors. Yes. John Corwin, I was in high school. I said, man, that guy's an amazing teacher. Yes, on that note, I want to thank my PE teachers

because they played a massive pivotal part. They knew that I hated school, but they always accepted me during the periods that I bunked off. They opened up. They could have gotten in trouble, too, but they opened up the gymnasium for me. They opened up the weight hall for me. They knew, again, I was a very coachable kid. But I also, I came from a school that was tough and rough so i fell into the into the distracted kids group not knowing later on that i had dyslexia or adhd you know that was

what i was told first week in college but i was labeled stupid and they used them terms in the uk you're stupid bro you're stupid kid get to the back don't be stupid you're acting stupid um you know you're going to be in jail all the army that that's that's what they brain train you for in in them public public schools when i was in school by the way that's so fucked up it's it's no nothing nothing can be worse as a young kid i mean the four more the four most important words i think in our language are, I believe in you. And here they're saying, I don't believe in you. Yeah.

I mean, and you're young. Yeah. It's hard not to believe it. And you'd be conditioned not to believe it. Because once you have many setbacks and it keeps repeating itself, you then say, well, this is my path. My brother, helping my brother you know just you know just speaking hypothetically you know we have my brother my brother ended up you know working in

the local steel factory or went to the army or whatever else and there's nothing wrong with that but when you don't speak big as a teacher you're not teaching yeah you're already creating the parameters for them kids by saying like your your only opportunity is this and this. And for me, I added in the element of, well, I'm going to be a professional, I thought rugby player, right? But again, you start talking, playing this guy back then, and they bring you back to reality.

It's a crazy, crazy, crazy belief system these teachers have back then. I can't attest to the school that I went to right now and who's in crazy, crazy, crazy belief system these teachers have. Back then, I can't attest to the school that I went to right now and who's in there right now, but also the teachers that were there when I was there were also at the tail end of the cane. So they were whipping people back then, and then they had to get rid of the cane, so they had nothing but words to humbly on.

Back then, it was an apparatus. Talked out of line, whap, give me your hands, whatever else they used to hit you with. It's crazy to think about, by the way, in today's world. I mean. Wild, I know. Some of these guys, obviously they play God, right? So they love just, they have the ability to do it.

But anyway, but them teachers were there and their mentalities were so skewed, whether it's because they never made it, but they spoke it into existence through these kids.

And I was one of them kids. But the PE teachers, along with my English teacher, Miss Hughes, she'd totally seen something in me which I probably didn't see in myself

at that time. And then when you just start getting muddied with all this stuff that's going on, to have somebody who was like, hey, come to the PE hall. Instead of bunking off, come to the PE hall. I know you're not doing what you should be doing.

Get in here before you get in trouble by the headmistress or whoever sees you. I see you. You're under my control and you're working. You're not doing anything bad. You're actually being progressive with your time. So I would do gymnastics stuff. Gymnastics, rugby, whatever, and a little bit of weights later on but these teachers truly showed me um skills that I never had and put time into me they were giving up their lunch times to help a lot of

these kids out and I thought that was so commendable because these guys don't get paid much money as teachers back then and I'm sure they don't now. But talking about one of my first week back in school, the class then kind of in the P department said, OK, what do you guys been working on throughout the summer? And nobody works on anything. Nobody's been working on speed drills. Nobody's been doing anything. They've just been messing around. So I was coming, obviously, off the injury.

But during that time period, I said, I'm going to do a handstand. And to tell you that story, I was so adamant I was going to do this handstand. But this is where my mentality comes in, right? And the analogies of life. The first time I'd done it, failed. Hurt my arm. My mother was like, what are you doing? You're going to be back in hospital?

Mom, I'm going to be fine. Handstand against the wall. Fail. Handstand against the wall. Fail. Fail. Fail. Caught it.

Half a second. Glimmer of hope. Back in again. Handstand against the wall. Caught it. One second. And then I kept doing that over and over again until I caught it against the wall for a time period of time. It's just a small period of time.

It's like, then the next thing is you take the training wheels off, take the wall away. And I started handstanding on my own. Again, this was a little sore, but I knew that through reps and sets, it was strengthening up. But again, to the dismay of my mother and father, they were like, you are crazy. You are going to be back in this now you've got to be training for the the second rerun of the Welsh trials that were coming back up I said don't worry I'll be good of course I was doing this out out of out of mind you know out of sight out of mind as the saying is but when I got back to that school that first week they said okay we can do handstands you see all these guys kind of like trying to

pick up where they left off and obviously progressed worse because they just don't have the agility that they had once or the dexterity. And I walked the entire gymnasium floor up and back. And everybody was like, bro, you're in a plaster cast. I was like, yeah, bro, I was working in silence. And again, these things that I started doing as a very young age I didn't realize that these were lessons that I would teach myself working in silence is what I've done a lot of the time until it gets seen and that day it was seen by my class and um and it also assured me that

when you're prepared to work when you have every excuse not to, you can achieve such incredible things. And my goal was to do what I'd done and achieve it so then I can tick that off and move on to the next. How great did that feel when everyone's sitting there watching? Well, I think it made up for all the lost stories of all, like what I missed out on on the summer holidays. Definitely. Yeah, I think everybody was like, what the heck? What have you been doing?

Been rehabbing? Again, my goal was to get back on the rugby field. The handstand and the walking on my hands, along with the backflip, by the way, I mentioned, didn't forget that part, was something that I had to prove to myself that I could do. I already told the people that I wanted to know what I was doing it, same thing in life. Anytime I do something, I tell my smallest,

smallest of circles, so I have accountability. But the accountability wasn't there. The accountability, telling my parents, like, don't. But then it goes back to that mentality of like okay i'm doing it anyway so i did um to answer your question it was um a great feeling to to know that where i started off with a can of beans committing myself to this this path of doing a handstand and then being able to walk up and back.

I wonder if it can be like a little bit of an inspiration to the class. Not showing off, because that's not me. I have always stayed humble and driven. But I was just like, guys, come on. You can work on things when you're not being asked to do it. Because back then, you have coaches for everything.

And the coaches say, okay, I want you to run a lap. But when the rugby sessions are done, you're not going to run the hills. You're not going to do all the extra stuff. But when I started surrounding myself with people who started thinking more like me, who would do more of what was asked of them,

and then it was seen on the rugby field, on the track, that's when I started putting that into my day-to-day step and demanding more for much more was asked of me. My daughter Carter, I have five kids, as you know, four girls, one boy. She's seven. She's in the first grade. Loves being a gymnast.

She loves dancing, does ballet. And we have a bar inside the house. Oh, wow. We have a bar inside the house. And working on the handstand now for six months. You know, she leans, she does the wall, she does the couch, and the couch is a little tougher than the wall because it's 36 inches, and probably up to 500 tries now. You can see her inching away a little bit now, so like you said, it's a half a second,

it's one second, or max, it's two seconds. It's going to be so amazing for her as a proud seven-year-old to be able to do that. And it's fun as a dad watching your kid progress. Maybe it'll take her 800 times, but she's going to get it. And as parents, even on the ones that she fails immediately, you want to give them positive reinforcement. Absolutely. That's amazing. She'll keep going.

She'll go 20 times in a row. Dad, will you hold my feet? Will you hold my feet? It's great. You talk a lot about your parents. A lot of our parents want us to go into certain professions. I'm Jewish and they're just saying,

oh, you know, Jewish parents want to be a doctor or a lawyer. Tell us about your parents' super excitement about you being a bodybuilder. Tell us about the bacon and sausage of your first competition. That was powerlifting. So when I did my first powerlifting competition, yeah, my mother and father were like, why are you putting so much focus into the powerlifting um more than the rugby now granted at that one at one point in time it had this this transitional period where i um was doing both but then how the season it was just focusing on the powerlifting

to get strong to get stronger and you know it's a lot of different things but the first powerlifting meet I ever done I told my parents about it again I didn't even think it was going to look like it did but they were cooking bacon and eggs and sausage right behind the lifters in a in a cafeteria that on most occasions during that day, the smoke was coming into the lifting platform. So my parents went from watching me play in high-level rugby to then coming to see this powerlifting show with kind of like mixed-matched chairs and everybody's huddled in there and bacon and eggs are being cooked behind the lifters.

I'm not going to lie, it wasn't the proudest of moments to tell my parents, I was like, yeah, I might do this, but I don't know. But when I'd done the bodybuilding, which was shortly after, and I committed myself to that, they came to the first show with the same mentality. Potentially, I didn't think, well, I know this, they didn't expect it to be what it was.

Now, bodybuilding in South Wales is pretty big. In Wales in general. I don't know what it is about bodybuilding, but we'll always have the local guy, every new, the local guy. You know, he's normally promoting the door, right, however, but he was always strong, built. And these guys always would turn up at the Mr. Wales every single year. Whether they won the show was another thing.

But every new who Mr. wales was all top three so me committing myself to this show and obviously going through the the details just sticking to the show element i think my parents came and they were like oh my gosh wow this is this is crazy this is in an auditorium air horns you know it was done it was actually in the royal princess theater in a place called port talbot so it was a royal theater which had balconies you know so it was um packed out couldn't get tickets people were outside trying to get tickets and ask for tickets to come in you know when the people were leaving they were reselling the tickets to get uh you know people in to see the event and i just remember competing in that show. My parents were like, wow, it's crazy.

But this is it, dude. One and done. You promised us. Because I'd done my own diet. It was living hell. It was horrible. So they were just like, oh, let's just wait for this to end. He goes back into his rugby and he can start eating chocolates again.

He's going to be nice. But it wasn't. And I don't know if you want me to continue with that from from there on in but it was yeah quite the story sometimes we do stop we say free oh my god it's free everything's free so we do crazy stuff because free is not free so tell us about this gym membership yes neil hill so the free gym membership was really what got me onto a bodybuilding stage the i trained in the the powerlifters gym. There was posters that would go up every single year about the Mr.

Wales. Again, there's people that we knew. I'd been up to see a couple of these shows. I had the interest. Don't get me wrong. I just said I loved the muscle. But I never see myself on a bodybuilding stage, especially in a Speedo.

Let's be honest, you know, I was like, that's not going to happen. I'd get ridiculed. Like the Speedo speedo you know you're up there on stage it's way speed up no no no you can't the white is like yeah the tan would be all over it it would look like you have pooped your pants okay it's bad as it is okay you got a, okay? You got a gold medal for the biggest pro Yeah, yeah, yeah. Turn around, you got this weird-looking tan stain running coincidentally around your butt crack. No, none of that. White is always out. But, yeah, the...

I'm trying to pull myself back into the timeline, but the question was... I'm sorry, talk to me. The Free Gym membership that Neil... who's had a huge role in your life. Absolutely. So the free gym membership was really me saying to myself, you know what, I don't have no money.

This would be a massive aid to me to have this free gym membership. I train here every day. And how hard can this bodybuilding thing be? Again, I didn't conceptualize the fact that I was going to be on stage in the speed or i allowed that not to manifest until the tail end otherwise if that was there in the forefront it probably would have ruined my my prep right because that for me was that was that was another hurdle in itself so i try to break things up the diet i got from a from a flex magazine. I found this guy's diet and I was like, okay, if he's eating all this food, I'll dissect this and I'll just diet on bare minimum.

Not knowing, no, that what I dieted on for 12 weeks was pretty much known as depression, which is next to nothing. I would live in hell. I was tired. I was hungry. I refused to not follow or go off the plan that i had in front of me that mentality has always been there but when somebody would suggest like hey when's the last time you had uh carbs oh two days ago oh i'm a big potato tomorrow i'd say okay and i'd have

that big potato just random guys in the gym giving their own advice I got there I got to the Mr. Wales again I started watching a lot of VHS videos to prepare me for the pause in and I really put my time into that but really that first show and I'll kind of tell a story within a story I still are nervous young kid I still had to walk on stage no matter what I'd done, how I prepared. When I got to that show and seen all them people in the audience, man, I came, I succumbed with nerves. So I'm backstage nervous and this older gentleman comes up to me. He's like, you all right, kid? It's like, yeah, I'm okay.

Of course, put the front down. He's like, it's okay to be nervous. I get nervous too. But you know what I do? I kind of channel into, again, okay. Of course, put the front down. He's like, it's okay to be nervous. I get nervous too. But you know what I do? I kind of channel into, again, not exactly the words, but I channel into something and the word alter ego came out. And I heard that.

And again, everything else was just context, right? The alter ego element of things. So it was literally 10, 15 minutes before I walked on stage, I heard this advice and it's been advice that I use to this day. When I walked on stage, I heard this advice, and it's been advice that I use to this day. When I walked on stage, I was like, yeah, alter ego. Nobody knows me up there. Outside of the people, obviously, that come to support, but forget them. Everybody doesn't know me, so I went out there.

And when you go out and do your, when they bring you out the first time, it's normally a routine that brings you out. So I've done my routine to, I remember Jamiroquai, Deeper Underground. It was the Godzilla song. Yeah. Like, don't run deep around the ground. But there's a buildup to that.

So I walked out to this, and then Jamiroquai opens up the song. Ow! And I hit the shot on that. My training partner, Steve Naylor, who's been training me at this point in time for like a year and a half, comes backstage, he's like,

Flex, some kid just went out there. You've got to go all out, leave it all out there. And I'm like, what do you mean, what kid? Before me, he's like, no, he just came off stage. I said, that was me, Steve. Everybody couldn't, I've heard the goosebumps. People couldn't believe that I turned

into that guy on stage and I left it all out there. No, I'd done the show. I won the show. I'm walking back to the car with my parents, big bag of chocolates. My college friends came and they knew I loved chocolates. I hadn't eaten it for 12 weeks. So they put this huge sack, like a Christmas sack together. All I wanted to do was drink. All I wanted to do was like drink glucose aid or Gatorade. Last thing I wanted to do was eat chocolate.

So I was trying to force myself to eat chocolate. Obviously the next day is different, but he just so dehydrated, he's so tired. Got a knock on the window and this gentleman standing there, head judge. And I said, he went down the window. this gentleman standing there head judge and i said he's he went down the window my parents are in the front seat he's like hey you're going to do the british nationals i was like yeah respectfully i said i know who you are thank you you know for all you've

done and thank you for the judging today and i don't know i don't think so i said it's been a tough prep i've done my own diet you ask asked some questions and he offered to help me. So I took that into consideration and he gave the whole brave heart speech of why you need to represent Wales against England and Scotland and Ireland because we're the smallest nation in the British Isles.

So he gave that speech and I was like, okay, I look at my parents and they're like, okay, how long? Four weeks. So myself and this gentleman spoke. We agreed. That Tuesday I drove down to this gentleman's house

and this is Neil Hill. And he's been with me ever since that day, 20 years later. He's still my coach to this day. So I'm a very loyal person to those who are loyal to me. I don't think grass is greener. I had many opportunities to work with many different coaches when I came to the to those who are loyal to me i don't think grass is greener um i had many opportunities to work with many different coaches when i came to the united states in fact i was told you're not going to win anything unless you work with these coaches and i was like i won everything as an amateur with this guy we've always been in shape that's my calling card i'm

never going to be the biggest guy on stage i suffered to be in condition and here we are now many years later you're telling me that I need to work with somebody else. It's not going to happen. We came here together, we'll end here together. And that does a 20-year relationship with myself and my coach to this day. You go with the people who got you there. And so many times

in life, we see it. I'm from Los Angeles, you're an actor, and it's a stepping stone process, right? You've got to get an agent. You're dying to get an agent. You finally get a part, and the small agent can't get you the bigger part. So then you're going to the little agent, and you're a CAA endeavor, and it sucks for the little person.

But sometimes the smaller agent does carry the client, and that helps make that first agent, uh, uh, bigger. But I think it's a lost, I think it's loyalty is underrated in terms of our success in life. They entreat,

they entreat. I preach about that more than you would know. Um, more roles. Again, I have a clothing company called culture. Culture is CLTR. That's what we spell it.

Culture, loyalty, trust, respect. And then the morals that I live by. And to your point, loyalty is a word. It's not the mentality. And there's so many people who have, again, got to a certain level and then jumped ship selfishly when that person has been there for you through you know things that let's just keep it in the bodybuilding world outside of the gym you know

coaches are psychologists that that's that they're all that they have to play to us like my you know with myself and neil you know the majority of times we're talking in depth about different things that have nothing to do with the training we're not talking about reps and sets we're talking in depth about different things that have nothing to do with the training we're not talking about reps and sets we're talking about mentality but we're talking about tapping into that how i can get into that gym and and garner something that wasn't seen in the last session but again when you have the opportunity then to to go with a coach that might have a couple more wins underneath his umbrella maybe maybe a couple of Olympia wins, they jump and they lose everything that they built up with somebody else.

Because now you're with a coach and you're a ticket number. And the attention that you had with that other person, that was gone. You expected with this other person, maybe now you're paying somebody a lot of money to be a coach. But now you're sharing the role with other athletes who may be standing on stage against you and then there's the other element of like oh man he's giving this person more attention because he's winning there's all these other different variables that i've seen at first hand sitting in the seat that i've been in for all these years there's nothing better than having the faith in the person that believed in you way back when when maybe you didn't believe

in yourself and doubling down on that. And if you make mistakes, that's part of the course, just like entrepreneurship. I love talking about my failures, because it's made me who I am to this day, and a lot of people just don't want to fail. They don't want to even put themselves out there to fail, and even if they do it, they don't talk about it

when really the lessons are learned in the times of despair. When you're looking at the ceiling stressed out or there's pressure on you. That's when you can use that to get out in the world and chase whatever it is that you're trying to chase down. you