In Search Of Excellence - How Brian Grazer Built a Hollywood Empire Through Curiosity, Courage & Relationships | E185

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

Brian Grazer is an Academy Award–winning producer, #1 New York Times bestselling author, and co-founder of Imagine Entertainment, one of the most successful production companies in Hollywood.Alongside his longtime partner Ron Howard, Grazer has helped create an extraordinary body of work across film and television, with credits including A Beautiful Mind, Apollo 13, 8 Mile, The Da Vinci Code, 24, Friday Night Lights, Arrested Development, and many more.His productions have been nominated for 47 Academy Awards, with 9 wins, along with 296 Emmy nominations with 63 wins, and 71 Golden Globe nominations with 11 wins.Collectively, his films and television series have grossed over $15 billion worldwide.Brian is also the author of the #1 New York Times bestselling book A Curious Mind, a powerful exploration of how curiosity can expand your life, relationships, and success.Brian Grazer joins Randall Kaplan for a deeply personal and insightful conversation about what it really takes to create an exceptional life and career. Far beyond Hollywood success, this episode explores the mindset, emotional resilience, and relationship-building skills that shaped Grazer’s rise from a struggling student to an Academy Award-winning producer behind some of the most iconic films and television shows of the last several decades.The episode also explores:How to become more interesting by feeding your mind with ideasWhy courage matters more than certaintyHow insecurity can either limit you or drive youWhy relationships, curiosity, and timing can change everythingHow Grazer built access by asking for five minutes, not a jobKey Takeaways:One person believing in you can change your life.Opportunity often comes disguised as a small moment requiring immediate action.Curiosity is a superpower in business, storytelling, and life.You do not need a perfect beginning to build an extraordinary future.Want to Work One-on-One with Me?I coach a small group of high achievers on how to elevate their careers, grow their businesses, and reach their full potential both professionally and personally.If you're ready to change your life and achieve your goals, apply here:www.randallkaplan.com Listen to my Extreme Preparation TEDx Talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIvlFpoLfgs Listen to this episode on the go!Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/23q0XIC... For more information about this episode, visit https://www.randallkaplan.com/ Follow Randall!Instagram: @randallkaplan LinkedIn:  @randallkaplan TikTok:  @randall_kaplan Twitter / X: https://x.com/RandallKaplanWebsite:  www.randallkaplan.com1-on-1 Coaching: www.randallkaplan.comCoaching and Staying Connected:1-on-1 Coaching | Instagram | YouTube | TikTok | LinkedIn 

You just need one person, one person that has undying belief in you. She'd look over my shoulder at the report card and she'd say, you're going to be special. You're going all the way. She had all these isms like think big, be big. People make too many steps out of one step. It's only one step. I didn't need to ask anyone's opinion. So what kind of advice can you give people out of because there's thousands of people watching this show who would never do that in a million years.

And I do a lot of professional coaching. You have to be interesting. You have to read, get pieces of information, so that you, in that one action, be interesting. You just have to have the courage. You have to take a breath and just go, I'm doing it right now. Nothing to lose, zero to lose, and everything to gain. Welcome to In Search of Excellence.

My guest today is Brian Grazer. Brian is an Academy Award-winning producer who has produced 130 feature films, including 8 Mile, the Da Vinci Code, How the Grinch Stole, Christmas, Apollo 13, and a beautiful mind for which he won the Oscar for Best Picture. Brian has also produced 45 TV shows, including Empire 24 Arrested Development, Friday Night Lights, and Parenthood.

His productions have been nominated for 47 Oscars. He has nine wins, 296 Emmy nominations with 63 wins, 71 Golden Globe nominations with 11 wins, and he's also won two Grammys. Collectively, his films and TV series have grossed over 15 billion. dollars worldwide. Brian is also the author of the awesome number one New York Times bestselling book, A Curious Mind. Brian, thanks for being here. Welcome to In Search of Excellence. Wow. Thanks for the introduction. Brian, thanks for being here. Welcome to In Search of Excellence. Let's wrap the show. Let's go. So you grew up in Sherman Oaks at North Ridge,

and I want to start with family because family always shapes our childhood and our future. I want to start with your 4'11 Jewish grandmother, Sonia. And I want to ask you about her taking you to Dodger Stadium in Hollywood Park. the influence you had on your life growing up. Okay, so, you know, I had kind of a 1950s, early 60s father, you know, a dad that doesn't necessarily hang out with their kids. Good guy, but that just wasn't the way he went. So I was fortunate enough to have a mentor and best friend and In Sonia Schwartz.

In Sonia Schwartz was my grandmother that lived on the fancy side of Los Angeles, the other side of the hill. She lived in Beverly Hills. And she would come over at least once a week, at least, and take me to some new place. She's the one that took me into all these different new restaurants that were opening up in Los Angeles. She always knew, she called it the big boss. The big boss would be the chef, the master chef. Then she'd make sure that the big boss was there when we were there and she'd introduce me. She's this tall. She's like, I think it was 410, 411 max, you know. But she thought she was really hot. She was really, really confident. Like, really, really, really confident. Like, she felt very much like she was worthy of talking to every big boss there was. We'd go to different

restaurants. We'd taste the food. We'd see how the food was made. She took me to Hollywood Park, taught me how to bet on the horses. Dodgers Stadium. We called it Chavez Ravine. She had seasoned tickets to the Dodgers. We kind of did everything. Met with the Elliot's, the founders of Mattel. His Mattel was the toy store. factory of the world at that time. So I got to have this mentorship from my grandmother, and she's the one that really felt that my asking questions and being involved with human beings on, you know, on a real, like this kind of a basis where you're talking and genuinely focused and involved was the most valuable commodity that one could have. She believed in you, like my grandmother believed in me.

You know, I stuttered. I was bullied as a kid, and my grandmother, my nana, who was 104 was raised in foster care. It was my hero. And I'd come home from school crying every day. And she would tell me, it's okay, you'd go back. All the bullying kids are not going to be cool when they're adults. Your grandmother served a similar role with you as well. Very similar. And so how important is it to somebody who's feeling not great, insecure to say the four most important words in the English language, which is, I believe in you? Wow. It's everything. You just need to, one person, same what you're saying, one person that has undying belief in you. And were there saying, I mean, I would look at my, I was very, I was acutely dyslexic, so I couldn't read for a very long time.

And I would get straight Fs. And she'd say, she'd look over my shoulder at the report card. It was straight Fs. And she'd say, you're going to be special. You're going all the way. She had all these isms, like think big, be big. She just believed in the, that and believed in me, you know, and I basically said young, I said, Grandma, like, there's like no empirical evidence that I'm going anywhere, you know, like at all, much less going up. So, but she just, you know, had an illogical amount of belief in me. We had a similarity as well. I was sitting class. I'd be petrified the teacher would call on me. I would stutter and everyone would make fun. What were you feeling as a kid?

And, you know, I mean, it really affected me hugely in my life. God, my heart would be beating out of my chest. Wow, it's hard to imagine. You know, I mean, it really was. Okay, now. Well, thank you. But what was your experience like? And did you say to yourself, God, I can't do this?

I need to be better somehow? Yes, I felt like I couldn't do this. Because I had to go see Mr. Polovoil, the teaching, the reading teacher. And I just, like, would fall asleep because of that day, it was this kind of manual device that sort of a line that went down and forced your eyes to go from left to right. And, you know, it's all these different mechanics. And, uh, but it caused a lot of shame, a tremendous amount of shame because the minute it was open to a question and the teacher was going to point, I would try to deflect because I knew I couldn't answer it. So I don't know if you'd do this, but I'd look the other

way or I'd cough and be disruptive to the class or, you know, in the day I'd have these little straws and shoot little spit wads at people and then get in trouble but not have to answer a question and be wrong, you know, blank face. And I kind of did everything to avoid those questions and it was traumatizing. I hope you're enjoying this video so far. But before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach a nice level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google Lift and Seagate. and I also co-founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey, and at this stage of my life, I want to give back.

I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did. In my own journey, I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others. I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can, can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video.

Your parents at some point with your dyslexia and poor graves, thought about holding you back and they called you the let's put him back in. My God, you do do a lot of research. It was that, yes. And so they were always talking about, they didn't talk about it really in front of me, But I could hear them always through my closed door. She'd, you know, we're not putting him back, Tom. We're not putting him, like it was one person, it would be one or the other that's defending me not being put back. But it was like an ongoing, very heated conversation,

a debate between the two of them. But they didn't put me back. I didn't want to be put back. I thought, I'm going to be in the same place being put back. So let's just keep struggling through this. In school, sometimes we do things to get out of certain things. Yeah. We don't want to go to class or we don't like a certain class.

You did something to skip your first class in the morning. So tell us about the city swim meet in the outside lane and then what happened. What were the lessons you learned from that? Okay, so I couldn't really read at all in elementary school. And in junior high, I was, you know, kind of getting through it with like season deep. But in high school, I was, as a freshman, I was getting C's. And I did, as a sophomore, I went out for football. And I was out in Chastworth, California, which is very hot, like, well over 100 degrees in the

summer. And you had to do this thing called Hell Week, which is two weeks of football in the broiling heat, you know, sometimes 110. I was there once. It was 127 degrees. And you were the helmet and all the gear. But I'm not big. There was a time, I mean, I was a very good athlete, but then everybody got big. I mean, all my friends got well over six feet.

But I still carried the confidence like I could still kick your ass. But when it came to this football, I did get through the Hell Week, and then we're all supposed to, we all had to go to an assembled auditorium event. And there was about 250 kids of all the leagues and stuff like that. Coach O'Gow was in the front of the class and he said, okay, name and status. I didn't even know what he meant, really. I only learned by example because my close friend, Chris Parkinson, was first. He'd say, Chris Parkinson, center.

Then it was Perry Schillemeyer, wide receiver. Then it was Richard Cox, quarterback, Brian Grazer, tailback. Incorrect. And basically, I just... I got cut like in front of 250 guys, and it was like horrible. It was just a horrible feeling. But I was able to really granulate the memory of what that felt like. And I felt when I was going down the line, I was a human being.

And then when he cut me, I was no longer a human being. I was just, I thought of it in those terms that I just fell off a cliff of being a human being. It was really traumatizing to me and troubling. And I think of it later that it was probably even somewhat imperceptible to the group because it's not them. They're concerned with themselves. But to me, it was a seismic event. I didn't know what to do. I had to pivot and figure out what I'm going to do in the first period. So I decide I'll go out for swimming. I get, I start going out for swimming. I don't even know how to swim. I'm swimming a little bit, you know, like that. usually holding onto the side and clowning around with guys and laughing and stuff like that.

And then all of a sudden we have a pre-meat and it was like a pre-meat, but it was all city schools were involved in it. So I'm in the pre-meet and they just ran out of people and they threw me in Lane 8, which is the worst lane, literally the worst, because all the water sloshes into your face and everything. And you're on Lane 8 and to the 100-yard butterfly. I'm swimming this butterfly. My body just kind of, it just naturally contourses. in the direct in the way a butterfly stroke went. So it was extremely natural to me. And I went, I moved along, and then I looked ahead,

and I could see I was coming towards touchdown. I looked behind me, I didn't really see any, and then I see this coach Wiley now. He's got this stopwatch when I touched down, and he said, Grazer, you just broke the city record. And I thought, wow, that was like amazing to me. And I realized that I couldn't see people because there was so far behind me.

And I just took a glance, and I thought, and it was, like, magnificent event for me. What did shaving your head have to do with that story? Oh, what happened? Okay. For a while, you know, like, in the school, like, they'd say, I did have to shave my head or the very beginning, head and legs and stuff and body. Because, you know, you go faster with shaved head and shaved hair and everything. People go, hey, what's the great grazer going to do?

It was like this. There were people who said the great grazer? And I thought, who are they talking about? but it was me. And so then it came to the end of the season. I was doing very well. Our coach really wanted to win, of course, this final event that was at, oddly enough, at Beverly Hills High, indoor pool.

I didn't want to shave my body again because I just didn't want to, you know, just somewhat defiant. They elect Ogawa, of all people, to lobby me because they think maybe Ogawa thought I liked him or something for cutting me. I don't know. But Ogawa tries to get me to shave my hair, my head. And I said, no, you shave your head. You know, I'm not doing that.

And I didn't. I won anyway. And that was the story. Like, I just, I wouldn't do it. I thought it was just kind of funny as a postscript that Ogawa was the one that was elected to do it. And I won anyway without shaving my head again. Then I have a later thing. I was at an international press junket.

And some little, some girl came over. I was like, you know, I was at that time a pretty big producer. And she goes, either way, I'm the niece of your coach Ogawa. I swear. And I was really nice, of course. I said, oh, God, I hope he's okay. And oh, yeah, he's still healthy. He's alive and all that.

But that was the story, basically. I was talking about college separately from brief stand in law school. You went to USC on a scholarship. How did you go from an AF to a C student to getting a scholarship at USC? I did learn how to take tests. I would, not cheating, I was able to synthesize information. I could compress information to the point that I could yellow marking pen, yellow line, essential information right before I went to sleep at night.

And I found that really living it by the yellow, you know, my synthesized information, and then falling right to sleep, I was able to wake up with it. And I would have the information and the tools to facilitate, you know, pivots. So I know that have knowledge. And then if the question, the question didn't have to be right on point, it could be any variation of the question. And I was capable of pivoting into the correct answer. And so I got quite good grades. You've talked about something that I feel is very unique in terms of gaming the system.

Yeah. Arguing with your professor. I've never heard of that. So how does a professor, you know, you walk in, you knock on the door and said, hey, Professor Grazer, you know, I've got to be, but it should really be an A. Yeah. How would that work? Oh, yeah. Well, that was helpful.

Like Grandma Sonia was good at that I mean, she didn't show up with me But I was really honed the skills of being Of conversation, you know, debate. So I would debate every single one I challenge every single one of my grades. And the way you challenge is if you get a C or B You know, and you want to advance that.

I mean, I got C's turned into A's By going in and talking to the professor And through a relatively long interaction with that professor they felt I was worthy of a higher grade. Sometimes I did have to take a test, but mostly it was just, you know, an in-depth, a thoughtful conversation. And I was always very persuasive.

And I got, again, I could get Cs turned into A's or often at least one jump, you know, B to an A easily. But all my, I didn't get, I did got very few Cs in college or even in high school. In high school I got C's, but in college, very few Cs. But I was able to really get those grades to, be higher, you know, strong, strong B's or A's always. We talk about moments in our lives that are very important and profound, that we look back and we

say, oh, gosh, you know, that's one that I really, you know, changes our life. And one thing that you did that was really cool, which I think everybody should do, is you want to be a better public speaker. So you took a public speaking class in front of 250 people with Mr. French. Yeah. So. Very good research. Tell us about Mr. French.

This was troubling. Okay. So I've always had somebody that's challenging. me, actually. I've always felt like an underdog story, and still even to this day, you know, I'm always me against a man. Today still? I mean, it's little, because even if you're successful, I mean, Spielberg got E.T. put into turnaround after Jaws. I mean, there's always somebody judging you. There's always that, and it's not always data-driven. It's just to be subjective. And so anyway, yes, I always just feel it. You know,

when you're, when you're been it so long, you feel it, that's all. And that's largely why I make a lot of movies that are racial alger stories, that are underdog stories, the common man that six, the sixth triumphs on a high level. The French thing was, yeah, I wanted to be better at, because I was very uncomfortable public speaking. I take a public speaking class. It's a very big cat class. He takes me aside and he says, I really have to talk to you. And I said, okay, and he said, look, I encourage you to drop out of this school, out of the university and to go to occupational school because you are not going to make it. And I kind of thought, you know, F you know, like I couldn't change him, but I changed myself, you know, that was it. But I thought

it was kind of a snap judgment on Mr. French's part. It was a little unfair. I think you should quit college and go into occupational school. He was very, very, very discouraging of my further, you know, interaction with college. I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach a nice level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google Lift and Seagate. And I also co-founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey.

And at this stage in my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did. In my own journey, I've learned that having the right mentor is a more. massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others. I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions, and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back

to the video. You know, there's times in our life where someone will put you down or do something very negative in your life. Yeah. Aspen's a place where we met a few times now. Yeah. And I dated a girl in law school that was very wealthy, and I wasn't. And so I remember going to this party at Red Mountain and just being insecure. And there were no phones in.

I called them and said, hey, I just don't feel good. I don't have the right clothes. These people are not, you know, my kind of people. Yeah. And at one point, my girlfriend's mom said, let's take a walk. And it was snowing. And we went around the little now. She lived on Hyman Street.

And so we're taking this walk around. she said, what's it going to take for you to stop dating my daughter? Oh, my God. And I thought, fuck the fuck. That's so brutal. And I was 23 years old. Of course, I could use the money, but I'm like, fuck you. And I'm not for sale.

You know, when my company went public years later, you know, I, you want to be humble, right? When you're successful, right? You never. Always. But, you know, I thought about all the kids that made fun of me when I was younger, I called me retarded. And if there was anybody who I wanted to call me. and just, hey, hey, you know, look at what I did.

It was my girlfriend's mom. Because, you know, here I wasn't good enough. She wanted a Rockefeller or wanted someone in Aspen with two homes. They had a home in the South of France as well. Jeez. But 30 years later, you win the Oscar and you called Mr. French again. Yeah. So tell us about that conversation.

I guess it worked out, Mr. French. Yeah, I have some version of that. So what, so. He was like, you know, he couldn't really, he couldn't associate, he couldn't, he couldn't comprehend the impact he had, the negative impact he had. He, you know, and so I didn't get tremendous amount of gratification out of it. I mean, he was just like, wow, you're doing great. He just focused on how great I was doing. Yeah. Not the counterpoint of where he left me last. But it was, it was fine. I'm not a person that takes revenge on people. I have no ability to hold

negativity. Yeah. I mean, I get mad. If I get mad, it kind of goes away maybe in an hour. Maybe a minute. It doesn't stick with me. I can't wake up every morning. I have a friend that can wake up every morning like hating the same person or several people. I can't, huh? Not healthy. Not healthy. You're killing yourself. Let's talk about insecurity, which we hit a little bit before the show, and I want to talk about it as well. So you bought yourself a porous 914 at some point when you were 9-11 T-targa. 9-11 T-targa, which means it a little pop top, so the top comes up you can be convertible too. when you were at USC and you created this fake persona because you were insecure. So talk about that.

And then what's your advice to people who are feeling the same thing? When I moved to Los Angeles, by the way, I had nothing. I had $3,000 in the bank. I lost my job. I was a lawyer. I got fired. And I remember driving around and seeing all these people in these fancy cars, right? They had Ferraris and Rolls Royces and everything was so fancy.

Of course. And I thought, and then people told me, yeah, you have a Ferrari, but you live in a one-bedroom apartment and paying, you know, $900 a month. It was very intimidating to me. Yeah. So you're a USC with all these wealthy kids. You're not a wealthy kid. So why did you create a fake persona? Well, because I realized I was surrounded by really rich people, sons and daughters of the biggest titans of an industry. And I became popular very quickly because I took 26 units one semester. The required amount is like 12. And sometimes people are ambitious that did 16.

But I had to kind of catch up and everything. So I all of a sudden took 26 units. A girl I was dating was really good friends with football players. And so all the most popular football players, this one named Lynn Swan, who played for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hall of Fame wide receiver for those people who don't know. Yeah. And he just liked me. And so he started this thing of me calling me 26.

So between he and Anthony David. and Pat Hayden and John McKay and Obradovich, all these, the in-crowd that lived at Twin Palms, which was on the row, but not in a fraternity. They were too cool. They were like the Delt House and the Animal House. They were all going, hey, 26, come on over. Like, we're partying.

And so I became, like, a popular person. And so with that group, I was just like a popular object. But outside of that, it was all these, it was all rich people. And I had to, my dad was a criminal lawyer. And criminal lawyers kind of lived the life of a criminal. But he did probably on a higher order, actually. Because, but I did. Better call Saul?

Yeah, kind of like that. Because he, I mean, I later learned because I got to know F. Lee Bailey. I knew the biggest trial lawyers in the world because I thought, are they all like my dad? And they kind of were. I mean, F. Lee Bailey, famous. I did a thing called F. Lee Bailey's Casebook of American Crime and I was 24 years old as a producer. I was like shagging Johnny Walker black label for him in Arizona, I remember.

Can you grab me another Johnny Walker in the middle of the day? So they all were variations of that. That was much later. Sorry, to the moment. So I thought, I'm enough to change. I can't say my dad's like, we're middle class and I can't do it. I got a job at night at the Howard Johnson's. Hojo's, right on.

Rosco Boulevard, adjacent to Bush Gardens. I'd go there and work at night and got enough money that I could buy this car, this 9-11 T. Targa. And I would start telling everybody that my dad was like, you know, really on the level of F. Lee Bailey or Jerry Spence or Johnny Cochran or something like that. You know, I just exaggerated everything to do with my family's, you know, the level of wealth. and I'd go to this fancy place called La Dome, and I'd sit mimoses at the bar, and I remember telling people, yeah, I was going to stud, and I didn't even know where it was.

I guess it's in Switzerland or something, but I would just be that person, and I pulled it off. I was just sort of faking it until I could make it. Probably that was an extension of what Gramasone you would have told me to do. You went on Joe Rogan, talking about insecurity,

which we just talked about, and there was a bunch of penis talks. Yeah. So what did people have, are people insecure when they have small penises? I think they, well, not people. Dudes are, yeah. Dudes are. I think they are, yeah. I think it's, it's hard to wait. It's, you know, it's like the angry inch. I think it's, I can't, I just think, I've seen some guy, my, like, it started off my son, my kids, there in a sauna with a guy that I know that's very wealthy and, owns a football team, he owns stuff.

It's very small dick. And they're like going, oh my God, I couldn't believe. I go, what do you mean? You couldn't believe? They're telling me. They're like nine years old. We're in Hawaii. And they tell me about it.

And I think, wow. And that's why the guy, it's a problem why he's hooked on prostitution. He's got all these other issues, you know, like insecurity issues. So I do think, you know, I think there's that song, like the big dick song, you know, that chick sings. I mean, there's a thing to it. Guys that have big dicks have more swagger. They just do. When I was single for you...

This is going to get me in so much trouble. When I was single... I don't know. I'm not an expert on this thing. When I was single for years, and I had three young kids. I have five kids. You have five kids now. Yeah. So we actually met. You don't remember this, but your youngest, who's 21.

My son just turned 22. We're on the same basketball team. Oh, at the White. No, at Pally, the rec center. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? And I sat next to you at a game. Gigi was there as well.

You were married at the time. Oh, yeah, sure was. And we just had a conversation, random conversation about basketball. We're going to talk a little later in the show about how we got reacquainted again, which I think is a really good story. Sean O'Malley was on my show, you know, the UFC fighter. And the people that have small penises now, there is you can get stem cell injections in your penis. Really? Which is a thing, apparently.

to get because to have more girth. So Sean was explaining how. It's thicker. It could be a little longer. He went down to Mexico and I said to Sean, he's got to hurt. And he went like this. Yeah, man, the shit hurts.

Jug hurts. And I said that Sean did it work. He said, no, it didn't work. Did he even work? It didn't even work. Yeah, I've never heard of one working, yeah. So I want to take what happened next, step by step. Okay.

So you graduate USC. Yeah. And then you went to law school for a year. and you asked yourself, you were reflective and said, what did I really learn in college? And then law school was, you thought you'd get more respect and ultimately you didn't like it. Well, because I would have failed out of law school. For sure. USC law school, which is a very good law school.

Yeah, I would have failed. I would 100% failed. But, you know, today there's so much talk about do you need to go to college, you need to go to grad school. So, you know, we live in a world today where the average student graduates, college with over $50,000 in student. debt, it takes at least 21 years on average to pay it off. And you know, you can learn so much online today. What's your advice to go to college are all four of your kids going to college? All four of my kids have gone to college and graduated college. Youngest goes to West Point. Amazing. He's 21. He's got two more months left. He's out. He's going to be a ranger.

The other one's 25 named Thomas. The younger one's named Patrick, for the record. And Thomas is in commercial real estate went to SMU. My daughter went to Tish, NYU. She's a shrink. Then I have a son Riley who went to college, but he is a disabled and he lives in a, I mean, he's a very happy kid and high functioning in many ways, but he needs, he can't be driving cars and stuff like that. And so, but they all went to college. Do you have to go to college? I don't think you do have to go to college. I think college for me was, it's how to cope in a larger population of people. So coping in society, connecting with human beings, I mean, the only way you can get money if you're raising money is by communication through active communication, being able to sell your product. And we're

all selling a product all the time. You have to be good at that. And so college is good for, So it's a version of that. By the way, I have an antidote to that. Antichote to that is that I just made a movie about, it's called How to Raab a Bank, that is about all the kids in America that go to college, they graduate, hoping for the American dream. Instead, they've got the American debt. And they're bummed because the American dream doesn't just exist there as you depart college. And you're in debt, and you have to scramble and hustle like you would have had you not gone to college. You've had four huge breaks in your career the way that I kind of see them, and I really want to talk about the first one. So you are in law school at some point during your first year. You're living in an apartment. Well, I didn't even get through law school. I mean, even the year. I didn't even get through a year.

Okay, but you're, I think enrolled in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I got, yes, all that stuff. Yes. And you're living in a small apartment on Ocean Boulevard in Santa Monica. Yeah. And you have these law grads talking below the window. And you hear one of them.

Yeah. And, you know, you hear one of them basically. saying, I just quit my cushy job at Warner Brothers for $5 per hour. So talk to us about Peter Neck and what happened next. Oh, okay. So I hear this guy, three guys are talking about their easiest job. And this guy uses this term of, oh, I had the cushiest job of all that caught my attention. And one says, what was it? Well, I was a law clerk at Warner Brothers for Peter Connect, who was ran the department. So I really listened in and I immediately called 8 for 3, 6,000, said, I understand you're looking for a law clerk. I asked for Kinex office

and spoke to the assistant. And they said, come on in today. I came in today and got the job day. At 4 p.m. At 4 p.m. Exactly in the afternoon. And it was everything that guy said. It was the easiest job you could have because there was literally nothing to do. I was in a tiny little office like this little, if you broke this off, and no windows. I just had nothing to do. I was getting quite bored. So one week passes. I get to the end of the second week. Let's hold off on that story because I really want to focus on something that you did. I think it's very important for people to know. Okay. Which is many people would have heard that and done nothing, right? You took advantage of a moment in time. On my desk upstairs, I have a clock, which is black. No numbers on it,

but it says now, now, now, now. So how important is it to take advantage of opportunities that are there like this. That could be gone tomorrow in a second. Essential. Critical. Critical. You have to do it right away. I'm going to write a book. I wrote two books. I'm thinking of writing a book. Well, I've started writing a book called One Step. Because people make too many steps out of one step. It's only one step. I don't have to think through. I don't have to ask friends. I knew to call 8 for 3,000.

4-1-8-3-6,000. Peter Kinex office, legal department. I didn't need to ask anyone's opinion. Most people would be terrified to do that. Yes. So what kind of advice can you give people out there? Because there's thousands of people watching this show, maybe 10 to 1,000, who would never do that in a million years.

And I do a lot of professional coaching. I do a lot of professional coaching. I tell people all the time, just go for it. Because you've got absolutely nothing to lose by making that call. Okay. First, I would say this. You have to be interesting.

How do you be interesting? You have to read, get pieces of information so that you can, in that one action, be interesting. Because you have to be interesting. So, you know, like have personality, have, you know, you just want to inform yourself a little bit. Be ready. Be loose. And then when you have that moment, you act on it right away. So you just have to have the courage.

You have to take a breath and just go, I'm doing it right now. nothing to lose, zero to lose, zero, and everything to gain. But there are, I've seen people blow that so many times. I've seen people come up to like my partner Ron Howard and go, oh my God, Ron Howard. All they want to do is have contact to hit. They want to meet with him again. But then they start talking and talking and then they say, how do I get your contacts? Don't ask people how you get your contacts. You get the contacts. The minute you say to somebody, can I have your contacts, they might just check right out. They don't want to give you your contacts.

You'll get them. I know that's a little too much, but it's true. You're at Warner Brothers now. Yeah. Small, tiny office, no window. You get a corporate car. Pontiac Bonneville. And you're delivering documents to people.

There's something in social psychology called the foot in the door technique. Okay. Which means you just get a little opening. Yes. And you fucking blow it open. Yes. So I want you to tell everybody

about Warren Beatty, who was the biggest movie star in the world at some point. It was then. Yeah, then. And then you delivering documents that the Beverly Will Shure Hotel to him. Okay. So the first documents I had to deliver after my two weeks was to Warren Beatty. Big stack of, I don't really know the gravity of Warren Beatty. I just know he's a big deal.

But he was, in fact, the biggest star in the world as a producer. He produced shampoo as a star as an entity, literally the biggest. Okay. So now I have these papers I'm delivering to Mr. Beatty, and Mr. Beatty lives at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in a penthouse. I get there with a stack of papers. Bady's assistant comes down, hand me the papers. And I just thought in that moment to say, no, I can't hand the papers to you. I have to hand them directly to Mr. Bady, otherwise the papers are unauthorized. It's not true, but I said it because I wanted to go further. So I had to go further. So I

say that and the guy is like says to me give me the fucking papers I said okay let me say this I'm taking the papers and I'm going back to Burbank and we're going to have to start this whole cycle all over again unless I could hand the directly to Mr. Beatty and he said okay so we go upstairs we take the elevator up as I hand the papers to Mr. Beatty to Warren Beatty I shake hands and I start a conversation I go oh my God, what a great living. I forgot what I said. But I said something that caused him to feel like, yeah, I can talk to this kid. So then all of a sudden, I was in an hour-long conversation, and that assistant was getting me an espresso. So, and that I thought I could just do every day. And then I did. So then I told my boss, Peter Connect, I'm going to stay for another year. I'm going to

go back to law school. You know, I just said that anyway. I'm going to go back to law school, and I'm going to stay here and work for you. And, and I'm going to stay for you. And he said, sure. And then every single day, I created a discipline where I would call a new person that was principally important in the media business. Could be television, but more likely it was movies. So it was the top 25 movie directors in the world where all in Los Angeles, basically. Same with the writers.

Same with the stars. Same with the directors. I remember Richard Brooks was like, he had like, the first time I've ever seen security in a building. like in the day it was in the mid-70s you know and he had these it was called packs his company was he was a guy he was involved in the wild bunch and he did these great movies and in any event i would call their assist i'd target them i do research and every day i would call and i'd say hi my name is brian grazer i work in warner brothers business affairs this is not associated with studio business but I have tremendous admiration for your boss.

I want only five minutes, and I promise you I will not ask for a job. And I adhered to that truth of that. I didn't ask for a job. I came in. I'd take five minutes. It was their choice. They could extend it, which they always did, until at least an hour. And I met everybody, and pretty soon I had kind of learned a tremendous amount of information

on how creative leverage operates. in Hollywood. Because it's a very obtuse kind of form. It's almost like a gas, it's like a gas that gets turned into a solid if you get it. Thank you for watching part one of my incredible interview with Brian Grazer, one of the

most successful producers in Hollywood history. It's an incredible interview. Be sure to tune in next week for part two of my awesome interview with Brian. So I did something similar. I came out here and as I mentioned before, I lost my job after five and a half weeks. I $3,000 in the bank. The legal market was very bad then, so no one was hiring, and I got a job in

Orange County, 52.5 miles down to Costa Mesa every day. That's far. I leave my house, my apartment, on veteran in Westwood at 5.30 in the morning when the bagel store opened. Shug Knight would be there two mornings a week. Really? With his, he's massive and his bodyguard and, you know, Fort Bronco with no one blasting the music. You know, we had a nodding relationship, you know, after, after a while. That's funny. Then they asked me to move down there and I said, no, I'm not doing that. And so I had three jobs in eight months. And then I said, okay, I hated law school like you did. But for me, it was a means to an end. You know, I made $70,000 a year when I graduated. I'm rich. And then I said, you know what? I want to go into business. I always want to go into business.

I want to go to business school, but they make you wait two years. Right. And I tested very poorly. Northwestern was my backup school. I graduated five bad. It's a good school. Yeah, it's great. It was also, but I graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Michigan. And my friends all went to Harvard. So, you know, Northwestern was my backup school, which is a great school. Yeah. But I wasn't going to test well for the GMAT. So I said, you know what?

I want a professional MBA. I'm going to do it on my own. I made a list of 300 CEOs in Los Angeles to meet. Wow. I wrote individual letters asking for informational interviews, similar to you. Because if you ask for a job, it goes in the shredder. Amazing. So there was Nexus Lexus at the time.

There was no Google, right? Nothing like that. firm had an all-you-can-eat payment, which was a profit center for them, right? They'd build a client, you know, let's say they paid $40,000 a month and they'd charge a client, you know, $2,000 in search or whatever. So I started doing all this research, biz-dev research. I charged it to biz-dev, you know, you've got to put something in the computer where you're charging it to. Yeah. Each letter took five hours to write. It was three-paid single-spaced letter, about every job they'd ever had. Steve Bolandbach's first job, CEO of Marriott. You would write them.

Type them. Type them. Yeah, cellophane cover. Oh, no, no, no, a electric tech printer. No, no, no, no. A computer. Laser printer. Oh, laser printer. But it would have a cellophane cover.

A quote the CEO had given at some point in a career. Michael Eisner, the key to Disney is how we hire. Time magazine, something, you know, November 22nd, 191, something like that. And so, and then it was tabs, single space, had my transcripts from Michigan, from Northwestern, a letter of recommendation from, that someone had written me from law school. And then I did this TV. show at Michigan. I hosted a dating segment. It was one and done, by the way. But it was, the Michigan Daily wrote about it. And everyone said, this is a stupid idea. No one's ever going to

meet with you. This was dumb. Michael Eisner. Perel Path. Sumner Redstone. Mark Platt, Stacey Snyder, who I know, we'll talk about her in a second from a beautiful mind. But Eli Brod hired me from that letter. Wow. And the lesson there is... I smoked pot with Eli Brod. You did? About a year before he died.

You did? Two years before it. Wow. I didn't know. Lagergogian's house. I was shocked. I was the assistant to the chairman. I would have never guessed in a million years.

Nor would I. You know, I was sitting there and everyone was smoking pot. I don't really like to smoke pot. Yeah. But then he took a couple of big wax, this guy. And I thought, I'll try it. Because I'm sort of scared a pot for, some reason. I don't know. I mean, I'm not like a prude. I just, but I, he did it like too big

wax and he was like this stiffy guy was like a different person. I would have never never, never, right? I know. I know. I mean, I remember going into the office one day. It's kind of a complicate compliment to him. Yeah, I mean, I just, I mean, I knew very well, obviously. I worked there for three years. That's why I thought you liked this little piece. I mean, I, I, I love the story. I mean, I would go in. I remember my parents coming to town. My dad coming to town. I was proud. I was 27 years old when I got that job. And we're going to dinner. I'm stopping by the office. It's like, oh my God, look at his office. And he's in there, Brian, with a suit and tie at 8 o'clock at night. Wow. And, you know, we got in the car and my dad said, and I'm just going to show him the office, right?

It's a beautiful office in Century City, the Sun America Tower. You know, I've told people the story. And he was, I don't know, at the time worth $5 billion, it was a $4,400 guy. And people would ask me. And that day was almost like $75,000 million. I mean, he at that point, he had $5 billion. Yeah, $5 billion. Oh, that was his start. That was his net worth at that time. We were a public company, so you could see what he owned.

And, you know, people would say to me, I don't understand. Why does he need to do this? I said, if you don't understand, you don't understand the lesson in terms of the drive that never goes away. Yeah. So opportunistic, someone at Warner Brothers gets. It's fired. And there's a big office there, executive office, and you're near Frank Wells, who's the vice chairman of Warner Brothers.

Tell us about the pictures of the Marlins and the yacht on the wall. And then what kind of influence that had on you? You have good details. So basically, I had the little sliver of an office, and I'm now like six months into my new one-year term, maybe three months into it, three months into it. And there's somebody that gets fired, head of business affairs gets fired. I see this office, has two union secretaries. It's right outside the president of Warner Brothers, Frank Wells, the vice chairman of the board,

was John Callie, who was the creative visionary, and then Ted Ashley was the boss, but he lived in New York. So basically, my office was like right next door, basically. It's just ironic. So it wasn't my office, but I said to Peter Connect, can I have this office down the hall? He said, sure, I'll help you get it. I said, fantastic. Because he didn't care. He started with Jack Warner.

He was like 80 years old, Peter Connect. And so I now have this great office right next to those guys. And I could see in the circular drive out my window when they were getting in in the morning. The minute any one of them drove up to the circular drive, they would have to walk up the stairs. And I would pretend like I had to go down the stairs. So then I'd bump into Mr. Frank Wells and I'd say, oh, Frank, how are you today? I mean, geez, and I make up some sports story or I do something like that, or I heard you climbed Everest, which he did. And, you know, I would just come up with something to chit-chat about.

But one of them was named John Callie, who was really the guy. And he said, you belong on my couch, you know, and watching, and you should watch me work every day. That's how you're going to learn. So I'm sitting on this guy's plush couch. He had no desk in his office. It was a beautiful living room. A giant Marlin on the wall and pictures of his boats. you know, that he had, and pictures of him fishing and being like Ernest Hemingway, you know,

and he had pictured himself with Ali McGraw, who he was dating, and he was just living this movie star life as a creative executive. I said, do you see movies? You must study them. He goes, he was really funny. He was very intelligent, we're very well read. But he said, no, I have to see him. I know what I'm talking about. And I said, you don't even see them? No, no. Like he was above seeing the movies, but he was picking all the movies. And he picked the best ones. He made The Exorcist, which was made at Warner Brothers. He made so many of the biggest best movies.

Stanley Kubrick's films. No one talked to Stanley Kubrick except John Callie. He was amazing. And so I did sit on his couch often and watch him operate. And that had quite an impact on me as well. And by the way, post-script of that was he then became decades later, became chairman of Sony and I was chasing the Da Vinci Code and Sony owned it and I had already produced the series 24 and it operates on the same serial principle as 24 operates on the same serialized

narrative principle as the Da Vinci Code and I said can I produce the Da Vinci Code which was the most coveted work that could be turned into a movie because it was a literary aberration it was sold as much as the Bible almost. So he gave it to me and I got to produce it and it made billions and billions of dollars. And I did very well with that. So he was saying they'd all paid off. Relationships matter at the end of the day. They do. They're huge. Yeah. You have to have a yeah and you have to keep the integrity of the relationship solid.