In Search Of Excellence - Joe Kudla: How Joe Kudla Built Vuori: The Playbook for Category-Defining Athleisure | E173

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

How do you build a category-defining apparel brand from zero? In this episode of In Search of Excellence, host Randall Kaplan sits down with Joe Kudla, Founder & CEO of Vuori, to unpack the real playbook behind scaling a modern athleisure/performance apparel company. We cover building a brand from the ground up, market whitespace, direct-to-consumer vs. retail, product-market fit, storytelling, community, leadership, peak performance habits, and how sobriety, mindfulness, and the FILO (first-in, last-out) work ethic shaped Joe’s journey—from accounting and modeling in Milan to launching one of the most talked-about activewear brands.Chapters:00:00 Intro — fear vs. confidence; the FILO advantage02:04 Early years, sports & learning differences → leadership lessons06:45 Internships that lead to jobs; how to stand out and get hired11:30 From accounting to Milan: rejection, fit modeling & thick skin18:52 First ventures → what failed, what stuck, and why25:40 Building community; why brand is a lived experience, not a logo31:28 Money milestone & “golden handcuffs” → redefining success38:12 Clarity, sobriety, yoga & meditation: founder operating system44:05 Meeting collaborators; the Vuori spark & market whitespace50:10 Product obsession, positioning, and everyday performance56:30 DTC vs. retail: distribution, margins, and scale1:02:18 Hiring, leadership principles, and culture that compounds1:07:59 Rapid-fire advice for students, job seekers, and founders1:11:30 Closing thoughts + Joe’s #1 lessonAbout our guest — Joe KudlaJoe Kudla is the Founder & CEO of Vuori, a California-inspired performance apparel brand known for premium fabrics, everyday versatility, and a community-driven approach to product and retail. Joe’s path spans accounting (EY), entrepreneurship, and the fashion world, culminating in Vuori’s growth as one of the most influential athleisure brands of the last decade.Want to Work One-on-One with Me?I coach a small group of high achievers on how to elevate their careers, grow their businesses, and reach their full potential both professionally and personally.If you're ready to change your life and achieve your goals, apply here: https://www.randallkaplan.com/coaching Listen to my Extreme Preparation TEDx Talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIvlFpoLfgs Listen to this episode on the go!Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-search-of-excellence/id1579184310Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/23q0XICUDIchVrkXBR0i6L For more information about this episode, visit https://www.randallkaplan.com/ Follow Randall!Instagram: @randallkaplan LinkedIn:  @randallkaplan TikTok:  @randall_kaplan Twitter / X: https://x.com/RandallKaplanWebsite: https://www.randallkaplan.com/1-on-1 Coaching: https://www.randallkaplan.com/coachingCoaching and Staying Connected:1-on-1 Coaching | Instagram | YouTube | TikTok | LinkedIn

Let your fear guide you. Like, let it be a power that propels you forward, not something that holds you back. My advice isn't necessarily reflecting back because my experience was so dated. I mean, I was in the college in the late 90s. But when I reflect on, like, today, thinking about the folks that apply for internships here, it's people that are persistent, that show up, you know? The old-fashioned stuff, be the first one in, be the last one out. That stuff still goes a long way with people.

Philo is what I call that. Yeah. First and last out. Yeah. It will succeed every time. If you practice that every day, no matter what the day brings, like you're going to have a great career. You're listening to Part 1 of my incredible interview.

CEO of Viori, one of the most exciting and fastest growing clothing brands in the world. Hope you love the episode. Be sure to check out part two of my episode with Joe next week. Without further ado, here's part one of my amazing interview with Joe. Welcome to In Search of Excellence. My guest today is Joe Kudla, the CEO and founder of the exciting clothing brand Viori, one of my favorites, one of the fastest growing, most successful clothing brands in the world. Joe, welcome to my show. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Randy. Excited to be here. I want to start with your family. Your dad Stas was an engineer turned neuropath. Your mom was into Native American spirituality. She led

wilderness trips. She ultimately became a psychologist. Tell us about your parents and how they influenced your future. You know, I think the first one was I was just so incredibly blessed to have so much love in my household. I had amazing parents. You know, I think that both of my parents never followed a conventional path. My mom, when she was a senior in high school, moved to France to be an exchange student and then, you know, she came back, got her diploma, graduated, and then moved right back to France. And she traveled essentially across land throughout Europe, through Afghanistan, all the way migrated down to Australia and worked in the outback delivering babies out in the bush, you know, when she was 18 years old. So just tell you

a little bit about how she was wired, you know. And my dad was, you know, somebody that was a really analytical mind. He went to Columbia to study engineering. But then I think it was a semester before he graduated. He decided that he was more interested in the body's ability to heal itself. And he quit school. And he ended up learning about naturopathic medicine. This is before there was a diploma to get in the U.S. He started reading books and was really fascinated. And then he ended up being in one of the first graduating classes that Bastille University and studied acupuncture. You know, I was raised in a household where it was all about following your heart and irrespective of whether it was kind of popular culture, it was about just doing what you were interested in,

following your curiosities, irrespective of how much it paid. And that was always the currency and the value in our family. It was about trying new things, following your heart, being adventurous. And I think that that really has served me well and given me permission in a lot of ways to follow a path of entrepreneurship, which is largely about a relationship with the unknown. As a kid, you were shy, but you don't look shy today. Was there a moment where you kind of outgrew your shyness and said, okay, I'm evolving and getting out of my shell a little bit? I think I'm still a bit shy.

You know, I would say I'm more of an introvert than an extrovert. But I definitely have had a unique relationship with confidence. Like, when I was young, I would get really fearful of things. Like, you know, if I had to go somewhere that I didn't know anybody or be thrown into a social circle, like, I didn't know what I didn't know people, that was really hard for me. And my mom would always tell me that, like, let your fear guide you. Like, let it be a power that propels you forward, not something that holds you back. And that was, again, always something that was just ingrained in me.

And so in some respects, I had to develop a relationship with discomfort. and that ultimately becomes almost like a superpower because like as you become more and more comfortable in discomfort, you're more willing to say yes to things that scare you. And it becomes almost intoxicating because when you rise up in those moments and you face that fear head on and you realize like what the human spirit is capable of, it's like a feeling of like this, we call it the rise, the shine at Viori, but it's essentially like a feeling of like pride comes over you and inspiration. And so I almost got addicted to that relationship with fear. And I think ultimately like, you know, playing sports and doing things like that that teach you about failure

and that it's okay to fail, those things ultimately help build confidence. So I would say today, you know, I'm not exactly an extrovert, but I definitely have a much better understanding of myself. And I think I'm more in control when those feelings come over me. A lot of of things motivate us and we have interesting moments in our life where we look around and say, oh my God, I want that. I want that. When I moved to L.A., I said, oh, my gosh, look at all these rich people. Look at all these mansions. I used to drive around Bel Air. And I look at all these houses. I said, one day, I'm going to have a house like this. You moved to Bellevue in eighth grade, and you have said in the past, you were like hillbillies in a new town. Tell us if there was a

particular moment where you looked around and you saw wealth and said, hey, one day, I want to have a life like this? It almost wasn't a conscious thought, but I think subconsciously it was very motivating for me. I think being somebody who played sports at a really high level, you know, a lot of the kids on the team would show up every year with the brand new equipment, the brand new cleats or the new gear and I would always be playing with hand-me-downs or, you know, my parents would always do their best. It's not like we had nothing. They would try really hard to make sure we had what we needed. But when you compare yourself to these kids that grew up in a completely different economic bracket, it was hard not to feel like you didn't have something. And so I think

deep down that was a motivator for me. I don't think it was until I got to college where that kind of story continued. I went to the University of San Diego where there were a lot of kids that came from privileged families. And I started getting exposure to their families. You know, to their going home at spring break and visiting their families and meeting their fathers or mothers who were entrepreneurs and had built things that I started connecting the dots. And it wasn't even, it wasn't necessarily about, you know, wanting the thing as it was like I became really interested in this idea of building a business or building a company. I likened it a lot to like, wow, this is a way that you can almost like play sports your whole life. You work with a team and set out to

accomplish a goal and enlist everybody behind a vision. It was really fascinating to me. And I also, I think, deep down, wanted to understand what it would be like to have some disposable income and be able to buy some things and, you know, things that I maybe wasn't as exposed to as a kid. So in sports, it's fun to play team sports. You get to know what being a team member is and a good team member. You played football and lacrosse, but you also surfed and water skied as well. And so how did sports influence your future? And what was the... year that you injured your back. We'll talk about kind of how you helped cure your back later. But tell us how sports influenced your life. I mean, I think in such a big way, you, you asked me about,

you know, being shy and confidence. Like when I was a kid, not only was I shy, but I had really bad learning disabilities. Teachers would tell my parents, like, Joe needs to learn a trade, you know, like school is not for him. I mean, I could not sit still. It was like being in a straight jacket for me to sit through class. And I couldn't read. the words would be upside down and, you know, going home and, like, trying to do homework. I mean, it was literally torture. And I just, I always thought I was dumb, you know? Like, I was like, Mom, I'm just dumb.

And my mom would tell me, you know, your Uncle Peter, who's this really, you know, awesome human, great, he's got a great career as a reporter for CBS. But he, she always say, your Uncle Peter was the same way. He couldn't sit still in class. You know, he was always the class clown. He had a really hard time learning. But then something just switched. on when he went to college and he ended up setting the bar and all of his classes and he was a straight

a student and he went on to have this incredible career so my mom would always say like joe you're not done you're a late bloomer it's going to click for you and she would stay the course and she was patient with me and god bless her for that because it was true as i got into my senior year or high school things started to to click for me so i know that's not what you asked me about you asked me about sports but i mentioned this because not only was i shy but i had really bad learning disabilities I had a confidence issue. But sports for me was the one thing I was good at. It gave me incredible confidence.

It gave me a sense of belonging. It gave me a community. Ultimately, like those became my friends, and it gave me confidence. And I learned about working with a team. And, you know, it's funny. Like, when I reflect back on my journey with sports, I wasn't always the team captain

because I was the guy who was there for my team members. I usually was a team captain because I was just good at the sport. But I think I took for granted, like the power of leadership. I didn't even understand that people maybe looked to me as a leader. And it wasn't until later in life that I looked back on that experience. And I reflected on the people on the team that I actually wanted to emulate as a business leader. That maybe I didn't show up that way as a player. But looking back, I was really clear on the type of leader I wanted to be, almost roll

modeled from some of the other people that were on my team back in the day people didn't really label learning disabilities it wasn't really a thing they do today were you diagnosed and were you on medication for some period of time there was a request i think that i get on or i consider medication my parents were you know very holistic and natural and so they chose to not um medicate me um but it came with hours served i mean my mom would be down there with me every night, doing homework, making sure my book reports were completed. I mean, sometimes I think she even aired on the side of doing the book reports for me a little bit, but she got me through. She got, she ushered me through and held my hand until it clicked and I was able to do it on my own.

I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach a nice level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google Lift and Seagate. And I also co-founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey. And at this stage of my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did.

In my own journey, I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others. I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions,

and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video. There's people listening to the show, and it's a common thing. People are embarrassed, and people do call them stupid. What's your advice to all those people out there who have not received help or afraid to go to a doctor and are being essentially bullied for being called stupid

and not really getting it like most of the other kids do. Look, my heart goes out to you because I've been there. I've been in that position. I can still literally at a cellular level feel what it was like to feel dumb. But my advice would just be that we all learn and develop and grow at different paces. You know, for me, I was a late bloomer. I see it in one of my kids today. I can tell she's going to develop.

up a little bit slower. But I know there's a brilliant mind in there. It just clicks for different people in different ways and we all have different learning styles. And so for some of us, the way that we are taught is just not the way that we learn. And that's totally okay. As a matter of fact, when I look at my social group, you know, I naturally gravitated towards a lot of other guys that were wired like me in college. You know, maybe not the best students, but had a lot of energy and just wanted to move very, very much in their physical bodies when they were young. And they just didn't have the patience to sit and learn in the same way. But a lot of those guys are brilliant entrepreneurs. They have thriving careers. They're great leaders. They have

incredible passion and determination. And so sometimes what's perceived at one moment in our life as a setback or a challenge and obstacle turns out to be your biggest asset a little bit later in life? A million percent. Despite the learning difficulties, you, as you said, you went to San Diego for school on a partial scholarship. So how did you get a scholarship having learning disabilities? Well, like I said, you know, my mom helped me maintain pretty average grades. She pushed you every day. Like, she'd sit there and she'd read with you and Joe, you got to do your homework because you were all over the place. Yeah, every day. I mean, all I wanted to do is be outside, running around, playing sports. I mean, I was the type of guy that would sit there and throw my

lacrosse ball against the wall for three hours after school, if you let me. I was, I was just a very active, very devoted to sport. But yeah, my mom would always make sure my homework was done that, you know, it was done right. She was incredibly patient. And, you know, she was a single mom. My parents split. And so I was raised prominently by a single mom. And she worked as a therapist until, you know, sometimes eight, nine o'clock at night and then would come home and sit with me and do my homework until I was essentially falling asleep at the table. But she just had such an incredible devotion to us kids. It was really inspiring. I went to the University of San Diego. I was recruited out of high school to play football at a variety of different levels.

Didn't want to play football in college, but the University of San Diego doesn't give football scholarships, but they connect athletes with student aid. Through the football program, they recruited me and offered me an opportunity to come down and play football for the school. What position? I would have played safety. I was a running back and a safety, but I was probably higher probability of playing in college as a safety. I came down and visited the school, ultimately decided I'd rather play lacrosse, not football, but they offered me the same package to come down. Accounting is not something that excites most people. In fact, only one to 1.2% of all college graduates major in accounting. You have a great personality. Why accounting? And would you recommend it today to someone over,

computers, AI, software programming, business, where would it rank? So to answer the first part of the question, I was good at account. I was good at numbers. So one of the first things that clicked for me was math. And I quickly started being, you know, I always set the curve in our math classes. And then I took an introduction to accounting class and I just naturally understood it, how debits and credits have to balance out, how the accounting cycle works. And so a teacher actually that I really loved asked me after class,

to stay back and he was like, have you ever thought about accounting as a career? And he walked me through it. And he walked me through that, like, you can essentially get an internship with these big firms and then you can get a job going into your senior year. You can already have your job established, you know, really great starting salary, great benefits, and that it can set you up for a great career. And that was really motivating for me because, again, like, I didn't grow up with a lot of money in the house. The idea of having a great paying job with a big, you know, global accounting firm was really exciting for me. I did an internship with Ernst & Young, decided to take a job with them for when I graduated. Let's freeze it there for one second before

we get into the next story, which is fascinating. What was it like as an intern and what's your advice to all the college graduates today where internships are harder to get because of AI ruining a lot of or taking away a lot of these jobs? Students today are very struggling big time to get internships. Yeah, getting an internship was transformational for me because I got exposure to what the corporate world was like, what having a job was like as a junior in college. And I was fortunate to have a program at USD where they made those introductions and connected you with those firms. In today's world, I recognize it's a lot more challenging. There aren't as many of those opportunities if you're not in a highly specialized major. Accounting is great because

it provides you a structure into these CPA firms, which is a really good way to start your career. It's almost like getting your MBA straight out of school in the real world. My advice isn't necessarily reflecting back because my experience was so dated. I mean, I was in the college in the late 90s. But when I reflect on like today, thinking about the folks that apply for internships here, it's people that are persistent, that show up, you know, that establish a relationship in the physical world and come in with an opportunity. offering to really do anything in the organization. I find that though that type of approach is typically the one that gets people in the door. When you're an intern, it's not about what you're

doing. It doesn't matter if you're like opening mail. It's just getting exposure to an industry that you're interested in and building relationships. That's your goal. It's not about the actual work and what you're going to learn. It's about the people you meet and getting exposure because it might spark something within you. 100%. I've had a program for many, many years. Passion life is for me to mentor people, hired, I think, six or seven full-time former interns, even though we didn't have a job when they started. But as an intern, if you absolutely kill it, you can get a job anywhere.

By the way, it doesn't matter if a company is laid off 10,000 people. If you're that person and you do the work and you work hardest and come up with something great. And it's also been very fun as a mentor where, thankfully, I'm in a position today where I've made a lot of friends and connections throughout the years. So if I can send an email to the CEO of Goldman Sacks, David Solomon, that this intern killed it here, it could sometimes break the tie. Yeah. And it's just very, very rewarding. Yeah, absolutely. It's amazing how a willingness to work hard, having a great attitude, showing up, kind of the good old fashion stuff. It really makes a huge

difference. What's one story of an intern that you've heard in the past, either here or somewhere else where you said that intern did something so amazing so crazy that they were hired. I think you're putting me on the spot here. I don't know if I have a great example that I would point to. I have people in mind that like I don't have like a story like that but again it's just doubling down on people that have shown up with a smile and they just do the work with a smile, you know? And they just are always present. They're there. You're working hard. Those are the people that always end up finding the roles in the organization. The generation today is a lot different than when I was growing up. I mean, I'm 56. You're younger than me. But attitude is everything. And a lot of internships,

you're doing shit work. Right. Everyone wants to excitement. Everyone wants a company to go public or, you know, craziness and be on the forefront of everything. But it's all about blocking and tackling and showing up, even if you're just doing shit work, great attitude every day, walking with a smile. How are you? I'm phenomenal. Even though you may not. be phenomenal. You know, you're in a work environment and that's how it goes. One of the biggest things that I think people fall into, the biggest traps that people fall into is thinking too much about the end result. I think it's great to have a North Star and be working towards something, but it can't overpower you. Sometimes you don't know

where the course of life is going to take you. When I reflect on my own journey, it didn't matter if I was folding T-shirts, my first job ever when I was in high school, or it was my first job at Ernst and Young, showing up, working hard, like being committed to the work that's in front of you that day and making it your priority to do an excellent job, show up with a great attitude. You know, the old-fashioned stuff, be the first one in, be the last one out, that stuff still goes a long way with people. Philo is what I call that. Yeah.

First and last out. Yeah. It will succeed every time. It always succeeds. You know, people just love, they're drawn to that energy of devotion. And so, like, you don't always know where things are going to go in your career, but if you practice that every day, no matter what the day brings, like, you're going to have a great career. It might be in a different industry. It might be doing something that you didn't even see coming. You didn't understand that doorway was going to open to you. But, like, when you show up every day with a great attitude and work hard, ultimately, the world, the universe will conspire to, like, help you on your path. It sounds hokey, but I believe it wholeheartedly to be true. So talking about a different path, you pull any magazine cover today of female magazines like Vogue or Harper's Bazaar, whatever it may be, and supermodels were discovered by typically someone going up to them in a shopping mall when they were younger, 14, come do a photo shoot. You had a strange turn and the research here conflicts. Either some woman saw you walking out of the ocean with your shirt off in La Jolla saying, hey man, you should be a model, or you went to.

a casting call and did that. What's the story there and how did you become a model? Yeah, so both of them are true. It was my senior of high school and, or excuse me, my senior of college. And I was surfing in La Jolla and sure enough, I was walking to my car. And a woman approached me and asked me if I'd ever considered modeling. And I kind of chuckled because wasn't interested in it. But she told me that her son was working with this local talent manager in La Jolla. He spent the last year just traveling around Europe. And she's like, even if you did it for three months, it was like, it's been transformational for my son. He loved it. She's like, can I just introduce you to his manager? And so I said, sure, I'll, you know, I'll take a meeting.

Because, you know, here I was a senior. I had already gotten my job, which started in the fall. I graduated in May, but I had until October. So I had five months off. And I was either going to wait tables or figure something out to do. But I was like, well, if I could go to Europe, I'd never traveled. I'd never been overseas. And so this sounded like an intriguing opportunity. So anyway, I took a meeting with this guy and he just said, look, I'll pay for everything. We're going to take some photos. I'd love to share them with this agency. We have this group coming from Milan in a couple months. They're going to do a casting. They're going to meet a lot of kids from San Diego. And they're going to pick a handful of them to go back and work for their agency in Milan for the summer fashion

shows. So he was like, it can't hurt. So anyway, I took some photos. I went to the casting. I met this agency. I think I made some little jokes and we hit it off and they liked me. And so they selected me as one of the folks from San Diego to go to Milan. And so yeah, that was the start of this whole new chapter and like that was a moment in my life. I never would have thought would have completely changed the course of my life. So we need to get some of those photos when we post a clip for the show for sure. So I'm going to, you still have some photos. I'm sure you have the photos. I'm sure there's some in a in a dusty box in my garage. We got to dust off the box. A lot of people think modeling is so sexy.

My wife grew up in Fresno. People came up to when she was 14. You should model and her parents owned a clothing store. So she modeled for the clothing store. But she went to business school at USC. And her parents said, we want you to get that degree first. And then you can model if that's what you choose to do afterwards.

She ended up working on Wall Street. And then she modeled on the side. But modeling is not all sexy. You're sitting there staying in shitty motels. You're going in front of, of people, Joe, look like this or look like this, turn this way. People are inspecting you and maybe one person, maybe five people looking at your body or your face, and you're getting rejected. The rejection rate sometimes is 99%. So tell us your experience as a model. Was that what

it was like? And then how rejection influenced your future. Yeah. I mean, you said it spot on. I think just to hit the rejection point first, you know, it really teed me up for a career of rejection. And I think, you know, it's like baseball, you know, you bat 300. You're an all-star, you know. It's like kind of the same type of theme with like modeling or sales or entrepreneurship. Like, you're going to fail 90% of the time, but that 10% can create a lot of value. Modeling was the first time it was just like constant rejection. And it was a bit of an ego bruise, but like ultimately you develop a thick skin. And that set me up for a career ultimately where I tried out sales for a while, and we can talk about that at another time. But I do think it was incredibly

empowering for that reason. Modeling was definitely not glamorous. I got my diploma. I took a red eye to Milan. I went to the agency. I still had all my bags. And they were like, you need to be at these castings today. Go. Here's a map. This is like before you had smartphone. So I'm wandering around Milan. It's 100 degrees. I'm pouring sweat. And I have to go and find these like addresses. And you'd show up and there'd be a line of a hundred people out of door and you'd sit in the blazing sun just waiting for somebody. You'd go up, you'd present your portfolio,

they'd flip through it, and they'd say, thank you for coming, and you'd leave. And you'd go to the next one. And you would do that five, sometimes ten times a day, and then your agent would call randomly out of nowhere and be like, hey, you're confirmed for this job tomorrow.

You wouldn't even know which casting it was, but you'd book some job, and then, you know, you'd travel somewhere, or whatever the job entailed, you do the job. Oftentimes, very little pay. You're living in a little model apartment with 15 other guys from all around the world. They're all different ages and backgrounds. And, you know, it's no luxury lifestyle. But it was like, you know, I was 21 years old at the time. I was meeting people from around the world. I was traveling on the weekends. It was an incredible experience.

What I didn't realize at the time is that I was being exposed to an industry that was very intriguing to me that would stay with me. After I quit the modeling, it was a part of me now that I couldn't shake and ultimately led me to my career. What was your first job? What was your best job? And what was the lowest paying job to the highest paying job? As a model. As a model. There weren't a lot of high paying jobs, you know. But I would say the first job that I booked was working as a fit model for Dolce and Gabana. All of the underwear for Dolce and Gabana. All of the underwear for Dolce and Gabana that they were going to release in that future season, I was the fit model for. So I was doing all that. And then that led- So tell people, people don't know what that is.

So explain what a fit model is. So a fit model, I'm proud to say I'm still the fit model here of Viori today. So a job that stayed with me all these years. But essentially a fit model, it's like when you go to a tailor to get fitted for a suit, you are the person wearing the suit. The tailor adjusts the fit of the garment to fit your body. You know, if you have certain types of measurement, you make a good fit model because you represent, you know, a certain fit that the designer is going for. And so they fit the garment to you and then they commercialize it and sell it. So what was the craziest moment you had at a mom? My wife was a model. She still did some modeling. We know a lot of friends. When I was single, I learned a little bit about

the modeling industry, including from one supermodel who has crazy stories. Do you have any crazy stories of when you were modeling? I don't have anything that, like, is probably, you know, I don't have a story that you're probably looking for that's earth-shattering. But I do remember the first big fashion show that I booked. I was walking down the runway, and there was this really popular rapper at the time named J'Rul. I don't know if you remember J'Rul.

Yeah. But Jarl Rul was rapping on the stage as we're walking up and down, and there's champagne everywhere and it was just this huge party environment and I just remember like thinking to myself like how did I get here you know like where am I so I had a lot of moments like that but nothing yeah nothing too dramatic I hope you're enjoying this video so far but before we jump back in I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach a nice level of success in your life over the last 25 years I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies I've invested nearly 100 including Google Lift and Seagate and I also co-founded a company that

that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey, and at this stage of my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did. In my own journey, I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others,

and I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions. And if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together.

All right, now let's get back to the video. What lesson or lessons did you learn from modeling that no business degree would have taught you? Well, I think it's the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Like, you know, you can take a marketing class and understand that brands tell stories and that you have to have like a communications framework for your brand. But then when you actually work as part of the system, you actually see the camera. the photographers, the environments, so you understand the work that went into creating the image of a brand. And then when you see it come together with copy and the story around it, you were a part

of bringing this marketing message or this marketing asset to life. And so you can be taught that in a textbook, but for me being actually a part of it was incredibly empowering because I started to understand like, oh, this photographer you could actually hire. for this amount of money and like you just need an environment like this and this is how the clothes get brought on to set and this is how the hair and makeup work and it's nothing transformational but it was just this idea of embodied wisdom you you were a part of it so you have a familiarity with it and then it becomes more empowering that you think to yourself like i could do this i think that was like the biggest thing that that chapter of my life gave me was i didn't love being in front of the

camera i was not a natural model but I got exposure to designers and how they worked with textiles to create garments and how they would adjust and pin the garments to make them fit right. And then how those garments would be used to create, used in a photo shoot to create an image for a brand and how they would promote the product. And I think all of that was just fascinating to me. I was like, I always had loved textiles. I loved the feeling of product. And I loved how, you know, my mother was a psychologist. For me, it was like there was a bit of psychology in there and like how you can connect with an audience through a product. That was fascinating to me. And so those were the things that I took with

me and ultimately became an itch that I had to scratch in my career. A lot of us take jobs just for a stepping stone. You do two years modeling, come back, EY, earn a CPA. Ultimately, you left, you said you weren't passionate about what you were doing. How important should passion be a motivation as we start our career or continue our career. And what if you're not passionate about what you're doing? Look, I think it's a double-edged sword. I think in a lot of respects, sometimes just getting in and getting great experience is a great way to start. And there should be no shame in that. You know, everybody today wants to be living out the tip of the sphere, most aspirational, like perfect, aligned thing that they're doing every day. And sometimes that's

not a reality, but that can be something that maybe you don't see how that leads to the next thing. But again, if you show up with devotion, it's not about what you do, it's about how you do it. And that's something we talk about at Viori all the time. It's like leading with that craftsman's mentality, like doing meaningful work, making a great product, whether it's a jacket that we're making, or it's like you manage a process or you reconcile accounts. Whatever you do, bringing passion and dedication and devotion and a positive attitude to your work. It can be incredibly rewarding when you look at your work as a devotion to something bigger than just that one thing. For me, that was always the highest value. When I got into my career,

I wasn't incredibly passionate about being an accountant, but it was an incredible learning opportunity that led me to my next thing. And I actually didn't find my passion in my career until, gosh, I was in my 30s. So, you know, about 10 years in is when I really started to find a role in a rhythm where I knew that my passion could become a career. So let's talk about the start of your career in the clothing business. While you were at E, Y, like so many of us who want to go into a different field, sometimes it's not great to leave your job until you have a new job, so you experiment

things. You started a women's apparel business with an ex-girlfriend. It's called Sammy Joe. Joe, your first name, Sammy, her middle name. What was the experience like? Yeah. Why did you stop? So I had come back from Milan and got my job, begged for my job back with Ernst & Young.

And so they took me a couple years late. But I started in their audit practice. You know, I started identifying more as like a creative. Like, I had this experience in Milan. And I'm not just an accountant. Like, there's a creative in there. But I didn't know how to connect with that creative. I'd never taken an art class or never been a designer or never, you know, I just, I was

always a jock or an athlete. I met a woman who was graduating from design school. We were getting serious. And instead of her going and taking a job in L.A. and us being a part, I just said, I just had this experience modeling. Like, I would love to start a line. Why don't you design the clothes? I'll help you with the business side. You know, I'll use my $45,000 a year salary at Ernst & Young to fund the business very naively. So we decided that we would start our first line together. And we called it Sammy Joe, and it was an incredible experience. You know, we were very ignorant. We didn't really understand the ins and outs of the business at the time. But, you know, we would go to LA on the weekends and we would work with jobbers that had excess fabric laying around. Right. So we would

buy that excess fabric. And then we would work with local pattern makers here in San Diego to make a pattern. She would sketch a skirt or a dress or a top. We would take it to the pattern maker. They would help us make a pattern. Then we would take it down to a, a cutter on our lunch break, make it into panels, and take all these cut panels of fabric down to a sewer. And the sewer would make it up. And then we would have a sample. We would do a fitting with that. You know, we learned how to adjust the pattern. And then we got a collection put together. And then we would drive up and down the coast. And this is before you could sell on the internet. And we would sell to these little boutiques up and down the coast. And those boutiques were like

feeding grounds into like the next tier of distribution, which would be like a Barneys. And then if you got into a Barney's, you could then get the attention of Nordstrom. And it was kind of like the path that you would go down to build a clothing brand. And so we were on that path. And it was an incredible learning experience, but we quickly learned after a couple of years that while it was really cute stuff, we were just like running on fumes. And we didn't have the investment. I don't think we were actually set up to really scale with the way that we were managing production. But I learned a lot about like, okay, if I was to do this again, these are the things. things I would do differently. And so I ended up taking a lot of those lessons into my next

venture. We have two kids, eight and five, and my wife, as I mentioned, her parents owned a clothing store, so she would help pick the designs for the next season. You know, she's cool and has good fashion style. And so a year and a half after we met, she started clothing on called Madtown Collection. It was simple, silk, blouses, skirts, and I'm going to get it all wrong. She's going to yell at me for not explaining it properly. But like you, we went to, Went downtown to buy remnant fabric, I guess it's what it was called. And we go to these warehouses and, you know, just to give people a sense of what we're talking about, these are large cavernous warehouses.

And she was buying silk. So there's silk rolls. Yeah. And we're basically going through 500 silk rolls to figure out what fabric to use. Hiring a pattern maker, you have to go and figure out who do you recommend, who do you recommend, they charge you by pattern for those people who don't recommend it. And then, in all of my brilliance and toughness is a good businessman. I get on the phone with one of the pattern makers and, you know, you pay for each pattern they make, right?

And so you can have a package of five. And I'm just talking about this because most people don't know what's involved when you start a clothing brand. And so I get on the phone with this woman who it's hard to find the right person, right? At each stage, there's a different person who's right for where you are in your production cycle. So there's not a lot of people who want to work with somebody new. maybe there's three or four that we got recommendations for you go you meet with them in person so medicine does all this work and then i get involved i'm the business person so i call the woman up on the phone and say hey you know why does this cost so much money we do it for i don't know i made it up

30% less and she basically called my wife and said hey man i don't want to work with you like this is this is not business i said okay i'm out of the business man i said okay you're not part of this anymore but it's it's tough you know it was a a solo project that she did she did all the labels herself and it was hard to get into stores you basically find influencer people who send things to celebrities hoping that they wear

your product the way it works is most people keep them for themselves and don't get them to the celebrities you know that's a whole thing it's expensive to pay for these people ultimately she got into Planet Blue which is a great store based in Los Angeles they expanded

into seven stores they ultimately went bankrupt sold their private equity firm. And then we had kids. So it's kind of on hold right now and we'll see what happens. But I've lived that experience and it's fun. She'd be up to one in the morning doing the barcodes and to get into a store. There's a 20 page questionnaire. And it's crazy. I mean, I don't know how she was able to figure that at the sounder site. She built her own website and this was 10 years ago. Today you can build a website on chat GPT in one hour. Right. So you leave EY to then go to a staffing firm called Vaco. You opened the San Diego office and went from zero to $18 million in a period of two or three years. And ultimately, we're satisfied with that

even though you had made good money. How much money had you made at that point? How much money were you making? And what's your advice to everyone out there today who feels they have golden handcuffs and say, gosh, I'm making this much money? Does it depend on where you are in your career, family? What other factors? Ernst & Young, and I wanted to work as a consultant in accounting because I could make $45 an hour. I was making $45,000 a year. I could make $90,000 a year as a consultant because of Sarbanes-Oxley at the time, right? So I met with this firm, Robert Half, and the folks that I met there, they were going to be

the people that helped me get consulting work. They were like brokers that had relationships with companies, and then they would recruit people like me, and I would go out and do consulting work, and I would make some money. and then they would make some money and they would build a company, right? When I met them, they were like, you have a personality for this. You know, you understand our space. This is a booming industry. Why don't you come in and work with us doing sales?

And this is the first time I was like sales, like frightening by sales. The idea of picking up the phone and making cold calls was like definitely not how I was wired. But again, I was like, well, they kind of told me, hey, you can make like over $100,000 a year doing this and have like a pretty flexible schedule. And here I was thinking, well, flexibility, more money. I can put more money into Sammy Joe. And at this time, I'm thinking about my next clothing project. It was always about how much time and how much money so that I can go build a clothing company out of the garage.

That was my criteria. I met them. I went to work for them. And not shortly after I started, we were all working together. We had really good harmony between the three of us. And we decided, let's leave and start our own company doing this. And so we ended up finding Vaco. They had a few offices in the southeast.

But we went to them and said, we would like to open an office here in San Diego, and we worked out the economics. We leveraged their brand and their marketing collateral, but we essentially had to build the business from scratch. That's what we did. We built an awesome company, and we had a ton of fun. And we went, we were in a space, like the recruiting and consulting industry was a bit like a commodity at the time. There was a lot of firms doing this. There was a lot of like need for Sarbanes-Oxley consultants. But we did other things too. We helped companies with SEC reporting and systems implementations and all kinds of stuff.

But it was really competitive. And what we did, what we learned from the folks in the Southeast that had started Vaco out of Tennessee was we learned like what building a true community was in business. They had so much fun with their clients. Like they built an environment where the CFO from this company would go to an event and they would connect and see the CFO and this old CEO. And they just, they created environments for people to. come together and share in meaningful experiences. And so we brought that ethos to San Diego,

and we came into a competitive market, and we built the leader in our category. We built an awesome company. We had a couple hundred employees, and this is the first time in my life where I was, you know, making pretty good money. What does that mean? How much we told me? You know, I was probably making, like, on a good year, $500,000 a year as a kid who was, what was like 26, you know, something like that, back then. So inflation, yeah, crushing it. I'm doing great. And I've got an equity in the company that's building as well. You know, I was taking vacations. I was playing golf with clients. I was building this. It was like intoxicating, building this company. We had a few hundred employees,

I think, at our height. We were the fast, third fastest growing private company in San Diego. It was an amazing journey. But again, like, I just had this part. There was this thing inside me that was like, I think you're a creative, actually. You understand the business and that's been really valuable, but I think there's a creative in there. And if you don't express yourself creatively, I'm not sure you're ever going to be fully fulfilled in your career. And so it was incredibly empowering because for the first time I had made some money, I had bought a house, and I realized, as soon as I didn't have to think about money anymore, I was like, oh, this actually isn't all that it's cracked up to be, you know? Like this, for me,

me for me personally it was like the values of my family and like everything just flooded back and was like this isn't ultimately what your life is supposed to be about and it's it's not about showing up every day for a paycheck it's about you know what is your contribution to the world like what is it that you're really here to do and so i went through a really tough chapter of my life where i was asking myself some really hard questions i was kind of down and out i had gone through a divorce the woman that I started that first clothing company with, her and I got married. We ended up getting a divorce. I just was like feeling a little flat in my life. I felt like I wasn't attracting the right partner, but really it wasn't about the partner. It was really about me and how I was feeling

inside. And so that was during the time that I asked myself a lot of tough questions. I started practicing yoga. I developed a mindfulness practice and started meditating. I was reading. I was in a period of self-discovery. And that led me into this. whole new chapter of my life right so let's go a step back i think i have a creative sense as well so in college i'd walk in the university of michigan go blue these stores and i heard you just signed colston lovelin is one of your ambassadors amazing yeah huge fan and i walk into the bookstore and i say you know i don't know i can make something better so i created just do it copies with just do it on it with better logos tilted rode to the final four and i sold these door to door got

kicked out of every dorm, one floor, and the next floor. And I sold a lot of T-shirts making money that way. You started a T-shirt company called Viori. We'll call it V1 Vori with a designer named Chad. Talk to us about that experience and how you got into your first store. Do you remember what your first T-shirt was? Oh, man. Well, I have some of them here on the wall. So these are all reminders of, like, where we've been as a brand and, you know, where, like, this journey began for me. But, yeah, Chad was a really talented artist, and, you know, again, I was like, I can take this money that I'm making and I'll fund the business. We'll take your designs and, you know, your creative eye and let's build premium graphic t-shirts. And this is at the time when brands like Ed Hardy and Affliction were really popular, you know, early kind of 2005 time frame.

And people were selling T-shirts for $70 in these high-end boutique. Crazy. Yeah, crazy. Special cotton. Yeah, special cotton, unique art, you know, big graphics were really popular. And so we decided to launch a business that would be a platform for humanitarians and environmentalists and people doing really cool work in the world. So every shirt that we made was a collaboration with a different humanitarian or environmentalist or musician that had a cool, compelling message that we wanted to platform. And so, yeah, we jumped in and I took all those lessons that I had learned from Sammy Joe and said, I'm not going to make 15 panel chiffon dresses, but I'm going to do really simple men's t-shirts and hoodies and sweatshirts. And yeah, so we did the

same thing. We managed all the production ourselves. We made it all in Los Angeles and San Diego. I think the first meaningful store that we got into was Lisa Klein in West Hollywood. And Lisa Klein, there was a, there was kits in, there was Lisa Klein, and there were Fred Siegel. And these were like the boutiques. They were like the cool boutiques. And if you got into them, it meant something. And then perhaps a Nordstrom would pay attention. And eventually you'd get picked up by a bigger, bigger account. It was an incredible chapter, but we fell on very difficult times with the financial crisis. And my business at Vaco was going through a tough time during that financial crisis and my partner ultimately decided that he wanted to travel and he left the company and so I was

sitting there with a lot of t-shirts and a lot of money my pretty much my life savings at the time put into this business and really all that was there of any value was potentially like the name vori and so ultimately we decided to part ways and close the business I would continue on just selling t-shirts to friends and you know kind of out of the back of the car style, but it was the second, you know, quote unquote failure in the clothing business. And that one really left me heartbroken because it was at a time where I was going through a lot personally. I really wanted it to work. It was a beautiful intention for a business. And that was the one where I really started asking myself, like maybe, maybe this is just a dream and it's not

supposed to be my reality. I like to take what happened next step by step. We'll talk about going to a party and that being life-changing in a minute. But you've mentioned before and you've talked about this and different podcasts that you went through. You broke up in a toxic relationship. You've touched upon that a little bit, but you were partying and drinking way too much. Can you go into the details there? How bad was it? Did you go to AA and have a real problem? And did you ever show up to work one day, just totally drunk or hung over? No, there was none of that. I've always been very functional. I would just say that, you know, it's just that, that same spirit, you know, we graduate from these universities and a lot of times that you're just

learning how to party and get through class, you know? And then it was kind of a continuation of that where I just was like going out all the time, drinking on the weekends, takes you a couple days during the week to feel better again. And then before you know it, it's Friday again and you're going out and partying. I mean, this is pretty typical. A lot of young people live this lifestyle. So it's not that I was doing anything ultimately super destructive. Yeah. It was more just like inside I didn't feel good. Like I didn't feel like I was on a path to building something or creating something or like attracting the right partner. There was always this like, I don't know, it's like a depth. And I think this goes back to like the way that we're raised. You know, I was raised

with a very spiritual mother. Everything had meaning. Everything had depth. I felt like I was living a little a bit of a superficial existence, you know? And it's nothing, I wasn't doing anything ultimately wrong or destructive or I wasn't developing a drug habit or everything was under control, but I just felt in the subtle that like the way I was living my life wasn't aligned with the path that I was supposed to be on and it was eating at my soul. We all have life-changing moments. You went to a party that changed your life forever. Can you tell us about the person you met and what happened that night? Yeah. So again, it was. like the 4th of July, I'm at a party in Laguna Beach. You know, I'm with my best friends. We're

having a great time partying. And this woman, her name's Lynette. And she's never mentioned her name before ever in any show. Yeah. So her name's Lynette. Her name's Lynette. She came up to me and she just said, hey, can I tell you, can I talk to you for a second? I said, sure. You know, and she said, you know, I just see something very clearly and I just need to tell you. This is before I knew she was an intuitive or, you know, I didn't even really. believe in that kind of stuff. But she, she said, you know, you were raised by a very special mother and she ingrained these really deep values in you. And that, that, your upbringing was very unique. But you've, you've gotten away from your values. And you're doing something in your

career that you want deeply to be your full-time job. It's a, it's a project or a side hustle. it's something and she's like and I just want you to know that like this thing that you're working on is going to be huge and she goes I don't know why I just am seeing this for you but like it's going to be she's like you're going to be speaking in front of thousands of people telling the story of this thing that you built and I was like I'm thinking in my head like Viori you know because this is like I'm still at this point in my career trying to make Viori work she said but here's the thing she goes it's not with your partner. She's like, there's going to be a completely change in the way that this is

organized. And she goes, and the only way that this is going to happen is she's like, you need to get connected back with your values and the way that you were raised. At this point, like, I'm bawling. You know, I'm at this party. My friends are looking at. They're like, why, what is going on? Like, who is this woman talking to Joan? Why is he crying? It was like she just spoke truth to me that I knew and I was feeling deeply, but I didn't fully connect the dots. And so she goes on to tell me that, you know, she is an intuitive, that she works with executives and people to help them, help guide them, whether it's a big decision or it's their career, whatever it is. And she was like, I don't even need, I don't want you as a client,

but I just, I feel like for whatever reason I've been sent here and I'm my, like, I'm in service to helping you. And I just was like so incredibly moved by this experience. And the next day, I got out of a toxic relationship. And I went to my first yoga class. And I said, I'm not going to drink for a while. And I just said, like, I don't know what the, I don't know what the future holds for me. But I am going to focus on clarity. Clarity being the ultimate currency at that point in my life. I just wanted to get clear. And I knew I couldn't do it if I was going out on the weekends and parting and staying in this vicious cycle. I was like, I'm going to break the cycle. So I started going to yoga. I started reading books. I stayed in on the weekends. I didn't have

a girlfriend. I didn't date anybody for a year. I just was like, I just want to get clear. And it was that period of my life that everything started to fall into into pictures. Like I started to see a path for me. And I saw a path for Viori to bring it back as a different company. And so, yeah, it was incredibly transformational. It was a, I mean, I don't know what I would be doing if it wasn't for that meeting on that night. You stole a question that was coming at the end, but we'll come back to it at the end so you can think about the answer to that question. But we'll go back to, you're working on Viori. You want to make it work. We'll go back to 2012, 2013.

Tell us about Chris Miller and was there a moment where you said yourself where you guys had the aha moment, that's it. Yeah. So Chris was, he became a good friend through yoga. So I started practicing yoga. Tell people who Chris Miller was. Yeah. So Chris Miller is one of the best pool skaters of all time. He's still, like if you talk to people that know the history of skateboarding, Chris Miller's name will come up as, you know, up there with Tony Hawk is kind of one of the best to ever do it. While he was a pro skater, he started a footwear brand. Well, he started a company called Planet Earth, which did clothing. And it was a small company. But then he ended up starting a, he got, I think Planet Earth was acquired by K2 sports.

With K2, he started audio footwear, which became one of the most popular skateboarding shoes. They sponsored Tony Hawk and a bunch of people. And so Chris kind of, while he was a pro, was also building brands in the sport of skateboarding and surf skate culture. But Chris got into yoga because he was dealing with a lot of injuries as well. Through a mutual friend of ours, this woman Lauren Duke who was a great yoga teacher, I would go to her classes, Chris would go to her classes. After about a year of practicing yoga, I started thinking about this idea for a brand. And we can talk about all the reasons why,

but these thoughts are percolating and I'm starting to have conversations with people like Lauren and my friends about this idea. And she said, you need to meet Chris. because Chris is actually having similar ideas. And so Chris and I met and we became instant friends. We just started surfing together. We were a part of this really cool community of people that were, you know, also building brands or they were yoga teachers or health and wellness experts or creatives and artists. And it was this awesome time in our hometown here in Encinitas.

It was just a thriving time of people that were building things. And we were all in that phase of life of creation, and we all became friends with one another. And Chris and I would talk. We would just sit around and talk about our life in Encinitas and this aspirational place that we get to call home and how people are in and out of the water and into yoga studios and prioritizing health and wellness and mindfulness. And the culture of the town was oriented around this growth mindset. And we felt to ourselves like this little area, this place, it's such rich inspiration.

for a brand and we talked about the fact that there wasn't a brand authentically speaking to men in this like as fitness and wellness was becoming more of a lifestyle not just something you did there wasn't a brand that really spoke to this this this this this culture and so ultimately Chris and I decided at that point like we let's pursue this and and we decided at that time we were going to do it together so as an entrepreneur there's a saying that you want to fill a need need. There were 30 million people practicing yoga at the time, and 30% of those were men. Yeah. Did you do your market research at the time before you actually went ahead? Because so many people today just say, hey, man, I'm just going to wing this and I'm just going to start it and

whatever happens, happens. Yeah, absolutely. We did research. And, you know, Chris, because he was from the action sports industry, would always quote that, you know, there were four million people that surfed in the United States. And I just thought that was insane because you're like, well, There's four million people that surf, but I was thinking about the brands that we all wore Quicksilver and Billabong and O'Neill and Ruka and Volcom. I mean, the list goes on. There were so many of them, but there were only four million people that surfed. And inherently, just like in yoga participation, there were 30 million people and men's,

30% of them were men, and it was the fastest growing demo in participation. So men were growing faster in participation than women were. But there were no brands for men. And it wasn't just about yoga. We knew that Viore would always be a little bit broader than a yoga brand, but just jumping off, we felt like there were a lot of opportunity to build products that would support men and that were interested in doing yoga that didn't necessarily identify you as like a hippie or a Buddhist or a monk or somebody that like, you know, maybe like the association with yoga

was that it was this like spiritual practice in the far east, you know? And we were like, no, there's normal guys, doctors, CPAs, executives that are doing yoga. And they don't have a brand that resonates with their lifestyle. And so we felt like that was a great jumping off point to start. Thank you.