In Search Of Excellence - Matt Barnes: Why Success Is Built on Failure, Resilience, and Hard Work | E152

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Matt Barnes is a former NBA player, entrepreneur, and media personality whose journey from a turbulent childhood to professional basketball stardom is a story of resilience, grit, and determination. Growing up in a racially diverse yet challenging environment, Matt faced adversity both on and off the court, fueling his drive to succeed. After being overlooked in high school and college, his relentless work ethic led him to a 14-year NBA career, where he played for teams like the Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Lakers, and Los Angeles Clippers, ultimately winning an NBA Championship with the Warriors in 2017. Beyond basketball, Matt has become a prominent voice in sports media, co-hosting the popular podcast All the Smoke and advocating for social issues, fatherhood, and personal growth. His journey from underdog to champion offers powerful lessons in perseverance, self-belief, and the importance of staying true to oneself.Timestamps0:00:00 - Introduction and Family Life0:05:38 - Racism in School and Childhood Challenges0:26:00 - Playing with and Learning from Kobe0:33:58 -  Matt's NBA Career1:13:54 - Importance of Being a Team Player1:32:27 -  Matt's Thoughts on Caitlin Clark1:46:08 - Drugs in the NBA1:55:55 - The Truth about the Derek Fisher Fight2:02:47 - Tupac and Fill in the Blank to ExcellenceResourcesAll the Smoke PodcastMatt's InstagramWant to Connect? Reach out to us online!Instagram | 1-on-1 Coaching | YouTube | TikTok | LinkedIn

Principal didn't believe you on the KKK try to burn down your school. My sister comes to me again for the second time crying with a couple of her girlfriends and I can see the spit in her hair and I'm like what happened? She's like you know this boy called me a n***a spit on me and I got my hands on him and I heard him. While I'm suspended um they come to vandalize the school, hang a mannequin from the oak tree with my football jersey on it died, swastikas everywhere. The one thing that I was so thankful for was that she got to see me play. She was on the other end of, you know, for me to get an opportunity. You didn't really tear up when you're back there in your hometown

and you know you got your kids there. It's bittersweet, Randy, to be honest with you, because I've always been someone that nothing was ever handed to me. I didn't necessarily feel like I earned that ring because I got hurt going into the playoff. So I shot the ball three or four seconds left and after I hit it there was 1.1. So actually I technically shot the ball too early but the funny part was and you know I went in and I saw these guys kind of collapsing on me.

Welcome to In Search of Excellence where we meet entrepreneurs, CEOs, entertainers, athletes, motivational speakers, and trailblazers of excellence with incredible stories from all walks of life. My name is Randall Kaplan. I'm a serial entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and the host of Inserts of Excellence, which I started to motivate and inspire us to achieve excellence in all areas of our lives. My guest today is my friend, Matt Barnes. Matt is a former professional basketball player who spent 14 seasons in the NBA.

He's been an NBA analyst for ESPN, Fox, and NBC Sports. He is the cohost of the very popular podcast, All the Smoke, is the subject of the incredible documentary, Revolution, and is the star of the reality TV show, The Barnes Brunch. Matt is also the founder of Athletes vs. Cancer, which he started after losing his mother to the disease 17 years ago. Matt, thanks for being here. Welcome to In Search of Excellence.

Thank you for having me. Long time coming. We've been trying to connect for a while. I'm glad we were able to. I'm super psyched for you to be here. Yes. Let's start with your family. You were born in San Jose, biracial family. Dad Henry was black. Mom Anne was white. You grew up very poor, on food stamps. You grow up very poor on food stamps.

You had holes in your socks and shoes. Talk to us about the night you were seven years old looking out the window and what you saw with these undercover cops and what happened with your family at that point. You guys did your research huh? Yeah I was you know very mixed neighborhood growing up in San Jose. Black father, Italian mom, and my dad was a provider. Mom was a stay at home mom. So my dad would be a butcher by day and in the evenings he would hit the streets and sell drugs and make ends meet for our family.

The particular night you were talking about two guys that, you know, was working for him came to the house and tried to rob us and in the window literally as a child I see my dad beat up two guys and take guns from both of them. And very shortly after that we packed the family up and headed to Sacramento. Let's go back because the two guys that robbed your dad were cops, undercover cops. Uh-huh. And so, I read the story about how he took their gun from them. It's kind of hard if two guys are pointing guns at them to actually take guns from trained police officers.

Both of them. And then I think you beat the shit out of them as well. Yes. My dad, man, grew up tough without love and I didn't realize that until a lot older. My dad and I didn't really see eye to eye until my mom passed and I'm sure we'll get there at some point. So my dad was just one of those guys, obviously in the 80s it was less about guns and more just kind of about fighting and that was something he thrived in. We would go to the flea markets on the weekends and probably three out of the four times we went,

he would get in a fight. So it was something he enjoyed to do, I guess as a pastime. And yeah, I mean, literally I'm sitting in the curtain. So for me to this black stage right here, I'm kind of seeing what's going on. Did you hear the commotion first? No, I went to the window.

You know, I'm following my dad around. So I went to the window and it was an unexpected notch. Your sister's there with you too? My sister, so my sister's maybe three or she's two years older than my brother. So my sister's about five. So just following my dad around and peeking through the window being a nosy kid and just kind of seeing all this happen so fast

and the fact that he was able to do that unscathed was crazy. Did you know at some point your dad was a drug dealer? I didn't really understand. He became a big drug dealer. I mean, not huge. I think when you're younger, everything is bigger than life. He wasn't necessarily, he was kind of a, he was under several people, but when you're

smaller, everything is bigger than life. You know what I mean? So I didn't necessarily know what he was doing, but what I do remember growing up in the 80s, I was born literally in 1980, that we always had the party house, you know what I mean? So there would be, my parents were functioning drug addicts or used drug functioning, yeah, drug addicts may be the word.

So I saw a lot at an early age. or use drug functioning, drug addicts may be the word. So I saw a lot at an early age. I saw obviously it being used and sold, but didn't necessarily understand the magnitude because it was all I know, so I kind of thought it was normal. When you're five years old, what kind of kid are you back then in that day? I'm a kid that's outside all the time.

I have a five, just turned six, and kids don't go outside anymore, which is unfortunate for several reasons. But I'm outside playing from the time I get out of school until, you know, right before it starts to get dark and a bunch of neighborhood kids and just in the mischief. You know, we're playing in the creek and we're hopping the fence over by the freeway.

We're playing football, we're playing tag, we're riding bikes. So just, I think a normal five-year-old kid in the 80s the night of the Beat up the undercover cops. You guys rented a u-haul. Yes, you moved to Sacramento Yeah back then it was basically All white mostly white cow town farm town. Yeah, and you're Eight years old you're in the third grade you get this all-white school and then a lot of racism happens You tell us about a ton of racism first of all when I get to this new school. I don't

Obviously understand that where I was coming from I guess the the education wasn't up to par because I went to this new school and I went from it I think it was second grade or third grade Back to the kindergarten class. So I'm this big old kid with little tiny kids and I'm seeing my classmates go to recess and I'm in there writing my letters. I'm like, what the hell is going on in here? You know what I mean?

So obviously, educationally, I wasn't up to par when I got to Sacramento, but yeah. Racism from the jump, unfortunately, and for me again, being Italian and black, I grew up in a very mixed biracial area in San Jose. So when we came to Sacramento, my neighborhood was still mixed, but the schools that my parents put me in, I went to two elementary schools, Cambridge Heights and Charles Peck, they were predominantly white and I never understood at the time.

I never liked it. I never understood until I got older, I think why they did it but racism from the jump. So eight, nine years old being called nigger and not being allowed to play particular games and I was just like I was I was devastated because I'm just like what like I love sports love being outside but I wasn't able to play these games because of the color of my skin. When was the first time you heard that word? What did you do when you heard it? I didn't really know what to do at first. You know I chased the kids around. I remember the first time it was that. You know what it meant? I didn't really know

what it meant to be honest with you. I mean again it wasn't something that was flying around because I was in my old neighborhood. There was you know Vietnamese, there was blacks, there was Mexicans that you know there was kind of a rainbow of kids. So not necessarily knowing what it means but I knew it was something bad because the kids were laughing and when they said it they would run so I would just chase them and try to catch them and It got so bad that I was fighting often and getting in trouble with this new school and getting suspended and I would you know I finally told my parents what was going on and my mom was a consoler and wanted to love and hug me.

She was a teacher at Alamance High School. It got there because of what I'm about to tell you, but my dad is old school, and disrespect is met with combat. You know what I mean? So my dad would, they call you a nigger, fight him. And my mom would, no, that's not that, but I always looked up to my dad from that standpoint.

So I started getting in fights to kind of just, I guess, demand my respect at a young age. I didn't know I was demanding my respect. But obviously, in hindsight, looking back, that's what I was doing. And I was getting in so many fights that my mom finally started coming to the school. And she would watch me on my breaks.

So we had a little 15 minute break, we'd have lunch and then it'd be a 15 minute break before school got out. So, she would be there during recess and again, you know, charismatic, loving, loved kids. And, you know, I think maybe after a year or two of her just kind of coming to make sure I stay out of mischief, they gave her a job as a yard duty. So, she started off kind of just watching us as a break and at recess and ended up being a special ed teacher before she ended up passing. The first time you had dinner at a seated table was with a white family. Yes. So tell us about that experience and how you were feeling as somebody who had never had

that. Yeah I didn't you know again I didn't know what I was missing or what was going on because to me it was the norm in San Jose. Everyone was pretty similar, but when I started going to these schools and after I kind of had to fight my way to acceptance, I thought I was a pretty cool, fun-loving kid, you know what I mean? So I started hanging out with some of these kids and really becoming close with some of them and, you know, being able to go to their houses and seeing their they have multiple cars and their own room and video games.

Like all this is new to me. Like I didn't grow up with any of this. So yeah, the first time I actually sat down at a family dinner table was with a friend of mine, Jeff and his family. And they had all the food in the middle and past this and past that. I'm just like, oh, okay. Cool.

I have a scholarship student who was raised in foster care and when I gave her the scholarship, for my grandmother who was raised in foster care as well. So it was hard to actually get her to come to the restaurant because she thought I was one of these guys online trying to suck her in, to do the kidnapping or something. But I was working of these guys online trying to suffer re-entering, kidnapping or something. But I was working with the guidance counselor, and again, nothing good had happened to her before, ever. So I call her, you know, get a free ride to Michigan. She was like, you know, you're skeptical, really?

Oh yeah, yeah, she hung up on me. Didn't believe it, so I had to call the principal of the school, and it was a whole thing to get her to have a phone call, and it was a whole thing to get her to have a phone call and it was a whole thing to get her to drive to one hour drive from university, or from high school. She was actually in Lansing at the time, living in her car. And then she brought this guy to dinner, a fancy dinner. She'd never been in a restaurant before. So she's looking around and didn't know how to use the fork or knife and you could tell it was very intimidating for her.

Did you feel intimidated when you were a kid? I just kind of followed the lead. Obviously being a kid, I didn't put that much thought into it as if I was introduced to it maybe as a teenager, but just kind of followed the lead of my friend and his brother and the family was great. They accepted me, you know what I mean? And one thing that was just tough for me

was my parents fought a lot and it was a way for me to kind of escape the noise and escape the violence and the yelling and the abuse. So I often kind of, again, once I kind of found my acceptance, I would find friends that wouldn't mind me staying the whole weekend sometimes. You know, I would come home after school with them Friday and not, you know, go to school with them Monday morning and then go back to school.

Excuse me, then go home after that. So I was kind of always looking for a better opportunity. I guess I got a, you know, a taste at a better life and it was something that kind of really piqued my interest and I enjoy it. We love our parents for better or for worse, most of us. They have flaws, bad flaws. Your dad was very violent towards your mom. He beat your mom, was arrested twice and went to jail twice.

Yeah. Did you ever see your dad beat your mom and what was your reaction when you were physically with her? No, luckily I didn't see. I would hear it because I would be up in my room at night when they would, I would always hear the arguments. Going like this, oh no. Yes, like covering my head or sometimes

even getting under my bed and just kind of hoping that this would just stop, you know what I mean? And the more you grow, the more you just kind of understand the dynamics and it just sucked, you know what I mean? And again, I didn't really get to crack into my dad and to his mental until my mom passed. You know, my mom, it was 17 years ago,

probably like a week ago that she had passed from cancer. And when she had passed, I was in the NBA at the time, right at the beginning of a season. And it was the first time that, you know, I saw my dad cry. It was the first time that he kind of broke down and apologized to me and my brother and sister. And my sister was it was the first time that he kind of broke down and apologized to me my brother and sister and my sister was kind of the first one to kind of dig into you know kind of his his his childhood and and

to understand that you know he was beat by his mom and fed dog food and had to sleep on the floor like he had a terrible upbringing so looking at that situation and being a little bit older, like obviously, you know, you forgive and you forget and then you forgive, you never forget. But, you know, to me, it was never too late to be a father because I felt like at that point when I lost my mom that I was gaining a dad because he was starting to open up to me for the first time in my life at 27 and just kind of understanding the childhood trauma and abuse he had gone through and he had just transferred that to his family. Let's go back to high school and we're,

as males, I'm not being chauvinistic about this, we wanna protect our sisters or our- Family, friends, everybody. Family, I mean male and female, but it's usually not the female beating up the male, it's usually the male protecting the female the male. It's usually the male protecting the female. Your sister had two incidences. Yes. You know, she was riding her bike and someone called her bad word again, and then your senior year someone spit on her. Yeah. And so you took matters into your own hands again. Yeah. Second time you did that. You got suspended for six days. Pitchpole didn't believe you on the KKK.

Tried to burn down your school. Walk us through that whole incident and again as a as a teenager getting a lot of fights. What are you thinking at that point? Well luckily the fights had kind of stopped after elementary school. I mean they were here and there sprinkled in through just kind of what kids do in the neighborhood or at school but I was a senior. I was literally two months away from going to UCLA. A star. Yeah, I was the all-American football player, all-American basketball player. Just really excited about what was next. Being pretty much from a small town in Sacramento, I hadn't seen much.

You know what I mean? So just excited about the opportunity. And my sister comes to me again for the for the second time. The first time she told me, you know, go tell the principal, go tell this. And hopefully they'll handle it. They didn't. So the second time she comes to me, I'm a senior and I have an open fourth. So I'm done after my third period. So she comes and finds me and is crying with a couple of her girlfriends.

And I can see the spit in her hair. And I'm like, what happened? She's like, you know, this boy called me a nigger and spit on me. And I just saw red. I didn't really know. I didn't know how to kind of. And unfortunately for him, he was walking past. And I did what any big brother would do. I mean, I got my hands on him and I heard him.

And after that, we were dragged to the principal's office and as I'm explaining with the spit still in my sister's hair like this kid's been harassing my sister, calling her racial slurs, literally spit on her. No, his dad's a prominent, they didn't believe us, his dad's a prominent lawyer in this city. He wasn't raised that way and I'm just like, so you see the spit, you know that I'm probably

the biggest athlete to ever come out of school outside of Dusty Baker, two months away from going to UCLA and you think I'm just going to beat this kid up for no reason. So pretty much that's how they took it. Absolutely no support from them while I'm suspended. You know, they come and vandalize the school, hang a mannequin from the oak tree with my football jersey on a dyed nigger, swastikas everywhere, burned down a bathroom. And it was crazy.

The NAACP came out from LA to come down and support. And for a while there was Rocky. You know, they threatened to kill me. So we had moved to just a different area and had around the clock security for a little while. And it was really just an eye-opening experience. And I think what was most hurtful about it was that I didn't have the support of a school that I kind of put on my back.

You know what I mean? I did everything for that school and dominated in football and dominated in basketball. And I think the one time I needed them outside of sports I was met with we don't believe you. Be different today. Absolutely, way different. No one could get away with throwing bananas on the basketball court. Tell us about the bananas on the court and what that was even about.

You're at a visiting castle remember I remember the castle Robles is a it was kind of a more heavy populated white cowboy area in in in the city right outside the city in Orangeville and we were at this game and next thing I know I'm shooting free throws and these guys are shaking bananas and then I kind of look around because I obviously locked into the game and there's kids throughout the kind of the place that have bananas and I'm just like what's going on right now? This is 1997 so this is pre phones kind of pre like you had to be there to see it, you know what I mean?

And it was just it hurt but I didn't allow it to be hurt. It was more fire and And actually after that game, my dad and I almost got in a fight with some of the kids that were wearing cowboy boots and cowboy hats that had the bananas. Like they thought that they can continue to talk and that definitely wasn't gonna happen with me, but I got my fire from my dad.

So we were ready to fight these five or six kids at this school until the police kind of intervene. But it was, unfortunately in in certain areas it was normal. People are taught to hate, they're not born to hate. Yeah, absolutely. It's a taught trait just like love is a taught trait and unfortunately, we saw it years before I came around, I saw it as a teenager and unfortunately we still see it to this day. So it's a hard thing to swallow, you know what I mean?

And me, not only did I get it from the white side, I would get it from the black side too because I wasn't white enough for the white kids and I wasn't black enough for the black kids. And I love my dad, his answer was to fight. You want your respect, you gotta go get it. And I had to fight kids for calling me white boy, black kids call me white boy,

or white kids calling me nigger. So it was just a constant until I had fought enough to people to understand, okay, well maybe we could still be racist or mess with people, just don't mess with him. You know what I mean? Because I had to fight often. Growing up, you saw a lot of drugs on a regular basis,

Coke, crack, crank, marijuana, and you tried marijuana for the first time when you were 14 years old. Explain how that happened and how it took off from there. My dad was, again, a provider. So he would work his long days and work his nights, but he was a cigarette smoker. And I remember I hated the smell of cigarettes, but I remember maybe the age of five or six, he was smoking something that didn't,

like it didn't smell like cigarettes. And it would kind of just peak like, what's that smell? As a little kid, obviously, you know, not trying to as a little kid, but I would see it, he would smoke his little joints and I would just be like, I kind of liked that smell. Obviously much more than the cigarette. I hate, to this day, I'm a cannabis advocate, smoke a lot of cannabis, I've never tried

a cigarette one time or any of the heavier drugs. But you know, cannabis piqued my interest at maybe, I hate to even say it, like five, six, seven years old because I like the way it smelled. And then fast forward to 14 years old, you know, took some of my dad's weed and tried it, got a terrible headache but I wasn't... You took it, he didn't give it to you. No, I took it. weed and tried it, got a terrible headache. But I wasn't... You took it. He didn't give it to you.

No, I took it. You just saw it, found a joint in the drawer. Took it, yeah, took it and went and smoked it and got a terrible headache and passed out. By yourself? No friends? No, a friend of mine, a friend of mine, Jesse, was with me, a little white kid that lived down the street from me.

So he had a little rat tail, but rat tails used to be cool back in the day. But you know we dipped off and smoked it and it gave me a headache I wanted to go to sleep but I wasn't a quitter you know what I mean so I tried it a couple more times and kind of found that it kind of just it mellowed me out it silenced the noise it helped me sleep better and it helped me focus so from from right there, I wouldn't say I was hooked because obviously I didn't have the money to be hooked, but I would socially smoke with my friends. I had a lot of, majority of my friends from high school are white, so again with my upbringing,

I saw everything under the sun, so they started dabbling in cocaine and they started popping Norcos and all these other pills. It just didn't interest me, but whenever we would smoke, I'd be like, I'm all for that. Bullying is a problem that now has become a prominent issue in high school. And you look at today, a lot of the mass murderers of these multi-cancel events, most of these people were bullied. Absolutely.

So the stats say that 20% of the students in high school are bullied. I was bullied as a kid. I stuttered. I couldn't order in a restaurant. People made fun are bullied. I was bullied as a kid. I stuttered. I couldn't order in a restaurant. People made fun of me. I couldn't give a speech in class. A lot of people who are bullied become bullies. How did that happen for you?

I wouldn't say I became a bully because I never looked for it, but I was just always ready for it if it happened, which is, I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but I just kinda had a chip on my shoulder. I was an underdog. Obviously, all-American football and basketball, but when you get to the big stage, I come out here to LA, I'm a small fish in a big pond. So what is gonna set me apart? How am I gonna find time when I'm playing

with five all-Americans? What is gonna end? It was just that fire of trauma, abuse, racism. And I just think, you know, my parents raised a little dog, you know what I mean? I was outside from, I was literally, I was thinking about this the other day, like I played outside from like four or five years old until I went to college. You know, I was still, when I get home from school and high school, I would still go out and find somewhere to hoop or, you know, go do something.

So I was just outside and at the, just outside and the streets really raised me. And if you grow up outside, that's where you get your first kisses out there, your first fights are normally in the neighborhood. You're playing the creek and you're building forts and you're climbing trees. So I was just one of those kids that grew up outside. And I think all the stuff that happened to me really hardened me. And it really, to me, it propelled me through college and allowed me to have an opportunity in the NBA

because like I said, I was the one that wasn't supposed to make it. You know, we had the number one, the back-to-back recruiting classes for UCLA. 1997's class was, I think, two All-Americans, but the number one recruiting class, and then my class had four McDonald's All-Americans and then me. So I was an All-American, but these guys were higher ranked. And then my class had four McDonald's All-Americans and then me.

So I was an All-American, but these guys were higher ranked All-Americans. They played in the big McDonald's game. But I was the one out of all those, both teams. The sophomores that were sophomores when I was freshman, like I ended up having a longer career than all those guys. And I think it was just kind of my heart and the fire inside of me. Let's go back to high school, freshman year of high school, Del Campo High School, and you played four sports,

basketball, football, baseball, and track. All-American and football and basketball. Football was your first love. My best sport, yeah. First love and best sport. So and by the way, I've seen you play football. We were over at my house one day for pickleball. That's right. We were playing catch my house one day for pickleball.

That's right. We were playing catch a little bit. I think I'm pretty good throwing the ball around. But man, I remember your first pass. I think came in with like that whiz. Yeah. That key where I'm like, holy shit, this guy hadn't even picked up a ball and boom, there it is. Yeah. God give talent. Yeah. God bless me with football. Football is what I played in the neighborhood early my dad was someone who was kicked out of the

Marines and and and grinded his way to a trial with the 49ers and was one of the last cuts from the 84 team with that's Bill Walsh to the head coach so and then after that that didn't work he played in tackle leagues in the in the weekends and flag football league so basketball didn't work. He played in tackle leagues in the weekends and flag football leagues. So basketball didn't really spark my interest at all. Football was what we played. We played tackle on the grass. And then as we got a little bit older,

we actually started playing tackle in the streets. So it was just, you grew up rough, skinned up knees and elbows and hips and everything. But it was just, I guess, a part of being a kid in the 80s. And as I continued to get bigger, I'm just like, oh, okay. Like, then I started getting stronger and just football was easy to me. Like basketball, I picked up,

started taking basketball serious probably seventh, eighth grade, because I kept getting bigger, but football was always my love and always my passion. Recruited to play both, but just by the time I was done growing, I didn't really see too many 6'8 receivers in the NFL, and I just didn't know if there would be longevity there, so I chose basketball, but basketball was something

I had to really, really, really work at to make. At what point did you realize, hey, I'm pretty good and I'm probably better than everyone else I'm playing with? Well, I mean, I think to be able to get to UCLA, you have to be good. That's great. Yeah, I had to do a lot of learning there, you know, and this is before, like I have obviously kids now

and you know, they're training as young as six years old, you know, but back then we didn't train because in high school, like I went from sport to sport to sport, so there was never time to train. So, you know, just learning and understanding and watching and then obviously going to UCL, I think one of the greatest benefits outside of how amazing the school is and the lifelong connections was every summer all the pros come up to the men's gym. So I'm 17, just turned 18 and I'm out here in the summertime playing with Kobe and Shaq

and Paul Pierce and you name it, all these guys are in the gym on our campus. I'm like holy shit. So that was kind of really like my my crash course to okay if you want to be able to play this next level this is the level of competition. So I think we got a cheat code because every summer we were able to play against the best players in the world because they were on our campus training and playing. You could just kind of walk in and say, hey, I'm Adam on the team, hey, guys. So we always played as a team. No, we played as a team. So we would go in there as a team.

You say I would play as a team. We would play as a group. You got Kobe on the other side, Shaq on the other side. Baron Davis and Earl Watson, they were our point guards and they were our leaders. So it would be us and a couple more guys. And we would go out there and we would hang.

We would definitely be able to hold our own. We were a scrappy young team. And then my first year actually was the 1998 NBA lockout. So as I'm starting, I'm coming from Sacramento small town, I'm in LA now, I get to play a little bit in the summer with these pros and then the NBA goes into a lockout. And next thing I know, it's like, our games are like Laker games. You know what I mean? All the stars are coming to our games.

Shaq and Kobe were coming to our games. Like the whole gym would stop when they would come in. They was just like, whoo. You know what I mean? So it was kind of like a star-studded event. But I'm like, damn, this is what LA is like. You know what I mean? Like my first year of my crash course was, you know,

we were the main center of attention and then the main attraction until the NBA started. We were out in the town whooping it up and doing all the things you shouldn't be doing. I'm not gonna lie, Randy. We were out there. We were having fun. I mean, I'm in Hollywood parties and going to premieres and meeting stars and it was as fun as it was, I was still homesick my first year. So I'm trying to get home twice a month, you know, catch a ride with someone from NorCal, you know, you put on the bulletin board, is anyone going up north, you know, in the dorms and you'd find someone and sometimes I'd ride with a

stranger, you know, a student, but a stranger up north, I'd chip in on gas or, you know, scrounge up enough money to buy a plane ticket, but I was still, as much fun as I was having, I was still homesick because it just wasn't, LA wasn't my lifestyle. You know what I mean? It became my lifestyle, but it wasn't my lifestyle to start. We all have influential people in our life that helped shape our lives when we were younger. Could be mentors, coaches.

Tell us about Steve Kenyon and the influence he had on your life. Coach Kenyon, he's my guy, man. I love Coach Kenyon. I'm my football coach. And he was hard on me too, and that's my guy man. I love Coach Kenye. My football coach. And he was hard on me too, and that's what I appreciate. He actually pissed me off because I should have been playing varsity as a sophomore, but he just wouldn't let me. He just wouldn't let me. But just a really good guy, hard-nosed old-school guy. He reminds me of Bud Kilmer from Varsity Blues. The coach from Varsity Blues, if anyone sees this, go back and watch. That was like my high school coach.

Just The coach from varsity blues, if anyone sees this, go back and watch. That was like my high school coach, just two-way, great coach, great motivator. We always had really good teams and he just took a liking to me. I think because obviously I was so good, he saw something in me. And I was just, to this day, someone I still talk to just golf with them in this past summer. So Coach Kenyon is someone who will be near and dear to my heart. When I actually won a championship with the Warriors, I retired after that year. So I wasn't there for the ring ceremony

at the beginning of the year. So the Warriors planned this ceremony for me to get my ring. And somehow they got a hold of Coach Kenyon. And Coach Kenyon was the one that presented me my ring when I went back to Golden State and got my championship ring. They surprised you that night. Draymond surprised you. Yeah, Draymond called me out, but next thing I know,

I'm like, what the fuck is Coach Kenyon doing out there? And he's the one. And actually, I bought rings for my twins, too. So my twins are seven or eight at the time. And yeah, Coach Kenyon is the one that handed me my ring. So it was perfect. Special night, too. It was a 10-year anniversary of your mom's death that day.

10-year anniversary. Yeah, it was a lot of things fell into place and it wasn't planned which was crazy You know a lot of things fell into place that night. It happened to be the 10 year anniversary of my mom's death My twins were there young young youngsters are 16 now but I think they were seven or eight at the time and You know to get the kind word from Draymond and and just just to be able to be around those guys for a little while. It was dope. We're gonna get to the championship in a minute and the ceremony in a minute.

But one thing that I noticed that I saw that video is you didn't really tear up when you're back there in your hometown and you got your kids there and they're getting the rings. I mean, what were you feeling? You know, you win the championship the year before, you not playing you go back and you sold out you got it's bittersweet Randy to be honest with you because I've always been someone that nothing was ever handed to me and you know I've told this story before but I didn't necessarily feel like I earned that ring because I got hurt going into the playoffs and I didn't really get a chance to play in the playoffs.

I had probably the worst in my entire career, the worst sprained ankle ever had a thing ballooned up. I'm like, what is this? Like, in the playoffs with a championship team and my ankle is just a monster, I'm like, god damn. So I didn't even feel good until like the Western Conference. I've played a few minutes here and there. So it really, but instead of, obviously obviously being an NBA vet at that time you know it's not an individual

thing. It's not a time to pout. It was hard for me individually but I would never show that. I would be in practice busting my ass and running trying to get back in shape making my ankle feel better and then just being supportive for the guys you know what I mean. To be there with KD and Steph and Clay and Dre and Iggy and all those guys and Coach Kerr, like it was just such a dope environment to be in. So personally, it was really hard for me to accept that. Obviously, I'm almost eight years removed from that situation now. So obviously now when I look back, obviously my body of work think I deserved it but I just thought in the moment that I didn't necessarily deserve that ring because I kind of felt like I got a free pass you Know I was courtside with with with the rest of the high paying people on the other side watching this incredible

Team night in night out do what they do You know productive career at UCLA you made it to the sweet 16 twice You your coach was Steve Lavin, who you said was a terrible coach. Not, maybe terrible might have been, he just, he was young. You know, Lav was 30 when he got the job at UCLA. And you think about a 30 year old coach

is normally in high school or maybe even below that, but he's at a major institution at 30. And just, he was learning with us, let's say that. We were probably the most in shape. The one thing we didn't have to learn is how to run. He would run our asses to death, 17s and nines and... We were definitely- So 17 is when you line up on one side,

the court long way, but you go sideways. So you go 17 times and probably under a minute. So it's a really, it's a push. And then sometimes you would have to go nine sideways or if you do line drills, people know line drills, full court line drill. So we were probably the most in shape team in the country. Um, I just felt and looking back and obviously talking like we didn't learn a ton from him, but I think again,

what balanced that was being able to play in the summertime with all those pros where it wasn't so much structure, you just got to go out there and hold your own. And I think that's what balanced that was being able to play in the summertime with all those pros where it wasn't so much structure. You just got to go out there and hold your own. And I think that's what really helped our teams. We would have mediocre team. On my freshman year team, I want to say we probably had six or seven pros, but we still never won a conference, say outside of having kids is the best. I put my college experience above my MBA experience to be honest with you because I have lifelong friends. I just loved UCLA to death. Had a blast there.

Let's talk about going from college to the pros and I'm going to start with some statistics now on the difficulty of doing that. There is roughly 500,000 high school basketball players, boys basketball players in the United States at any one given time. Of these, roughly 16,000 will go on to play at college one NBA game. That's a 1 in 3,333% chance,.03% chance of getting there. Wow. So you got all these guys you coach right now, including your kids.

We talked about a friend of our son. What are you telling these kids about the odds of making it and how do you motivate them to keep going to try to make it? You know, my thing is is preparing these these these young men You know, how do you be a productive young man and grow as a man and as an athlete? First and foremost and then the other side I teach is the mental side. I'm so busy I wear multiple hats and and have a house full of kids, but I also love coaching I started coaching as soon as I retired.

So, you know, I tell the parents, they gotta get better on their own time as far as skill set. But when they come to me, I'm gonna teach them the mental side of the game and how hard, because all those crazy numbers you say, not that some of those kids aren't good enough or the odds worked against them,

but it's just a mental game. I've seen so many people better than me and, you know, all stars, all Americans that just never got an opportunity. Most of the time people better than me and you know all-stars, all-Americans that just never got an opportunity and it most of the time it's up here you know whether you you know you think you're a Kobe Bryant level scorer or you think you're bigger than the pro but there's just a lot there's so much shit that goes into it so I say 90% of the game is mental you know once you get to that top level and then when it and whatever profession you're in everyone could

pretty much do everything so what is gonna allow you to either excel as a girl on to be a star or just maintain in that league? And I just think it's your mindset and your approach to everything you do. And obviously when you're younger, I got lucky when I came into the NBA, it was an older league, you know, that there was vets that were,

you know, I'm coming in at 21, 22. I got guys on my team that are 38 you know 38 40 years old so whether they're playing or not they're giving back to guys like me helping me you know avoid pitfalls and and and and some of the horror stories you hear about the women are blowing all your money so I came into a league that you know guys wrapped their arm around me and one guy particularly was Chris Webber. to a league that guys wrapped their arm around me. And one guy in particular was Chris Webber. Huge fan of Chris, big brother, almost a father figure to me in my earlier days in my NBA because I wasn't really

getting a chance to play. So I was debating, all right, I know I was really good at football. I'm going to start. And I would tell my agent, like, hey, I'm going to give this one more try. And I did it, and it didn't work. I'm going to give this one more try.

Because I was in the NBA, I just wasn't getting a chance to play. And luckily, this one more try and I did it and it didn't work I'm gonna give this one more try because I was in the NBA just wouldn't get a chance to play and you know luckily this one time but one summer the summer so I played four years and I didn't I played when I first started at the Clippers and then when I went to the Kings I went back to my hometown team because I was playing there in the summertime with those guys and I wanted to play with them so I signed a deal there but when I signed the deal there Chris ends up getting traded to the 76ers to play with Iverson and I'm a throw in at that point so I'm just I help fill out that trade and when I go to Philly I don't get any opportunity to play so it's two years of cold weather and a lot of cannabis smoking

and I'm kind of doubting myself at that time. Like I'm not getting any minutes. Am I good enough? What do I need to do to get out there? And Chris was someone who continued to just stay in my ear and encouraged me to work and I got a shooting coach and I just put in a ton of work and when I finally got a real opportunity to play that following year, I took advantage of it. Let's go back to draft night. So you're the 46 46 pick in the second round

by the Memphis Grizzlies. Let's freeze frame it there before we go on from there. Was that a dream come true? To be honest with you, that night we had rented, I befriended a guy that had a car dealership out there and he used to give me some cars. He's moved on, rest in peace to Ray so we're at his big old house pool a bunch of people there and I don't really know

I worked out for a lot of teams but I don't really know where I'm gonna get drafted you know I don't really have a sense of what's going on you know my agent says you know late first round second round so I'm like okay cool first round comes cool so you're watching these round. So I'm like, okay, cool. First round comes, cool. So you're watching these picks, huh? I mean, it wasn't like it was on TV today. But I'm watching, but I'm acting like I'm not. Like, you know, I'm just like,

I don't wanna seem like I'm pressed. You know what I mean? So I'm watching, but I'm not. So- But you're hard to beating out of your chest. Yeah, cause I just, the uncertainty. You know, the uncertainty. So I actually, you know, dip off at one point

and smoke a joint, you know? Like, I think it was after like the 33rd pick, 34th pick, and I'm seeing guys that I was better than and outplayed in college, and I'm thinking like, damn, what if I don't get drafted? How embarrassing, like I'm thinking like, if I don't get drafted, how embarrassing is it gonna be that all these people came out to support me?

And lo and behold, the 46th pick to Memphis was a huge exhale but then as soon as I got picked I was traded for a Wesley person and I forgot one other person so I went from Memphis to Cleveland draft night. And then from there you go to the D-League. Explain what the D-League is, and then talk about the glamour and the 10-hour bus rides. No such thing. So I go to Cleveland, and John Lucas,

I still hurt a little bit because I just feel like it didn't give me an opportunity. I felt like I had a solid training camp, and even other guys on the team were super surprised. When I got cut, I got cut maybe 10 days, two weeks in a training camp. And I'm getting hit up by veterans on the team, you know, or super surprised, like show, like when I got cut, I got cut maybe 10 days, two weeks in a training camp. And, you know, I'm getting hit up by veterans on the team, like, girl, I can't believe they let you go. Like you did your thing, man, keep your head up. You know, you'll be back up here one day. So from there, I go back home. And it's, it's a huge embarrassment, you know,

I mean, because I was supposed to be the one that made it, although I wasn't supposed to be the one that made it, I showed that I could make it. So, you know, I mean because I was supposed to be the one that made it although I wasn't supposed to be the one that Made it I showed that I could make it so and then you know, I get drafted and everyone thinks Oh, you're an instant millionaire like it it doesn't work that way. So I get cut maybe two weeks in a training camp and Then I get opportunity to go to the D league. This is before it was the G League It was the second year in existence So it was the NBA Minor League program kind of like a farm system for baseball and it's obviously a lot bigger now But when I got there was the second year So I'm in

Fayetteville, North Carolina Jay Cole from there But I was back there went before anyone knew what Fayetteville, North Carolina was and the funny part about it was it was a it Was a military or an army town or military? I'm not exactly sure what but there was a big I think was an army base there and there was always fights on the weekends. And I'd be like, why are there always fights? And they're just like, well, these guys are coming back home, and their women have been out running the streets, and then the husbands come home. And it's just that when I tell you every single time I went out, I saw two or three fights,

I'm like, damn, this is crazy. So long story short, man, I'm grinding there, playing well. The coach has a son that went to North Carolina that was a highly touted all-american and I beat him out in training camp. I feel like I'm the best player on the team. I'm playing really well but then I get hurt and when I get hurt it opens up the door for his son to come in and start and then once I got healthy I was playing spot minutes. So I was looking at the G League or the D League as a pit stop. But while we're there, we're staying in rundown hotels and bus ride, nasty eight

hour, 10 hour bus rides. If we did fly, it'd be like the La Bamba plane. I'd rather walk than be on some of these planes that they had put us on. So it was just the early inception of the league and it was nasty. But really that was what kind of spark relit the fire in me I guess to be like, I know I'm better than this. I know I can be on that next level. I just have to show it.

So unfortunately I didn't really get a chance to show it there. I showed it the first half of the season and I got hurt and I didn't really play that much in the second half of the season the following summer No teams are really biting. So I have to go to something called the the ABA I think it's called a team in Long Beach. So this is where you know We're going to Juarez Mexico to play games and was it the Long Beach Jam on Beach Jam What an a Long Beach Jam going to Juarez Mexico and just all these oddball little gems terrible gems to play in Actually our gym was cool that we played in the pyramid. Long Beach Gym. Going to Juarez, Mexico and just all these oddball little gyms, terrible gyms to play in. Actually, our gym was cool. We played in the pyramid at Long

Beach State. But all the other gyms were nasty. And this is where Dennis Rodman and I first crossed paths because he's trying to get back in the NBA. So one day, next thing, I'm like, Dennis Rodman walks in and practice. I'm like, what the fuck is Dennis Rodman doing here with his pit bull and his entourage? And the coach is like, hey guys, we got a new player. I'm like, what? Dennis Rodman? So Dennis is there, but unfortunately,

I'm only with Dennis for like probably a week and a half because I'm playing really well. I'm putting up big numbers. And you know, once Dennis got there, I probably played maybe two or three games with Dennis. And then I got called up to the Clippers for a 10 day. And a 10 day contract is pretty much a tryout. you get 10 days to kind of show what you're worth and my first 10 days went really good Played well, then I got a second 10 day played well

And then after the second 10 day they either have to let you go or sign you for the rest of the year and luckily Mike Dunleavy was a head coach at the Clippers at that time Decided to sign me for the rest of the year and then that's when my journey started So you went to the rest of the year and then that's when my journey started. So you went to the Kings the next year. So that was a wrong move to be honest with you. So I played with the Clippers and you know Mike Dunley gave me a huge opportunity and I was playing a lot and I should have stayed there.

They wanted to re-sign me for the minimum but I'm from Sacramento and keep in mind this is the time when the Lakers and the Kings are going at it. So I'm at UCLA, you know, born and raised a Laker fan, inherited the Kings because I moved there. So I'm kind of representing SAC, you know, everyone's talking shit and it's a big thing with Kobe and Webb and all the Shaq and all these guys. So, but every summer when I'm not at UCLA, I'm going home and Chris has me come up to the Kings facility.

So I'm training with these pros, every know strength training and hanging out and you know getting to know him better and Jason Williams at the time they traded Jay Willock. I'm like baby So I'm hanging out with all these guys. So after my first season with the Clippers, I don't spend it in LA Like I'm excited. I made it. I want to go home and blow the money I made and and but while I'm training I'm training at this facility. So Rick Adelman had asked me what was going on. I was like, there's some interest from the Clippers. He's like, I really like what you've done this summer here.

Everyone's been raving about the kind of person you are and how hard you work. He's like, you want an opportunity to play here. And I'm just like, hell yes. I'll get a chance to play for my hometown team. So season comes, I'm backing up Pajar Stojalkovic, one of the greatest shooters of all time, but I'm still getting solid minutes. I'm getting, you know, 15 to 20 minutes a game until they decide to trade Chris. And they try to, they decide to trade Chris, I think right before the All-Star break,

so maybe late January, early February. And I was heartbroken, heartbroken because again I'm playing for my hometown team, my family's coming to the game every night, I'm playing, I'm playing on a good team and then all of a sudden you know I find out I'm a part of the trade that sent me or excuse me that sent Chris to Philly and you know for two years it was tough out there. Your first game playing for the Kings you had 17 points and nine rebounds. How good did that feel? It felt great. You know like I said I put the work in. I genuinely put the work in and had great

mentors and older players around me that were encouraging me and I just felt like man what a dream come true to be able to come home and play for my hometown team but this is when my hometown team is still a really good team. So it was just, you know, I stepped, I remember that game was at Dallas too. And I, you know, Rick trusted me and, you know, I knew what I had to do and I went out there and played well.

He said you had to audition every single day for that role. Don't people in the real world have to do that as well? And aren't we only as good as we were yesterday? Only as good as your last game. So when I said that, what I meant by that was because I was on one-year deals. You know, so every, you know, I had to, every night, not only was I playing for my team, but I was playing for the rest of the league to kind of see what kind of player I was. And again, I think I made a huge mistake by going to the Kings because

it kind of got me on the carousel of you know obviously moving out to Philly and then when you don't play I think the thin line between having a long career obviously is a lot of mental but it's just opportunity and I didn't get any opportunity in Philly. One of the coaches was Mo Cheeks and he was an asshole and kind of made it his goal to kind of fuck with me and that almost ended really bad for him. But you know, I'm so I play with the Clippers on a 10-day half the season and then I take a jump to Sacramento and I'm playing the first half of the season then I don't play at all when I go to Philly. So the next year and a half two seasons I'm just sitting on the bench.

I'm just there and it's just like So, you know after that season I Didn't really have no phones ring. I didn't know really know what I was gonna do. So my UCLA teammate Baron Davis had just got traded to the Warriors and I was at home in Sacramento and he calls me up one morning like hey, we're gonna play some pickup up here Do you want to come up? I'm like shit. All right, I'll drive down. so I take the hour and a half drive from Sacramento to the Bay go out there that that day and play really well not knowing the head coach Don Nelson was watching he was up in his office and he was watching this play that day and we

get done and you know we're shooting some free throws after and I'm literally about to walk out of the gym and he comes down and kind of puts his arm around me he's like where you going to camp at son? I'm just like coach. I don't know. I don't have no nowhere. And he's just like, I really like what I saw today. He's just like, we have a full training camp roster. You know, we have 19 guys, 16 or 14 or guaranteed 13 are guaranteed. I think 16 are partially guaranteed. He's like, I can't promise you anything, but if you come and show what you did today,

day in, day out, I'm gonna give you an opportunity. And to me, that was all I needed because the coaches in Philly didn't even give me that opportunity. So when he kind of instilled that confidence in me, I was a man on a mission. And whether I had to fight you, slap you, or just play basketball,

like I was gonna make that team. So I ended up being the last, and I think I was the 20th guy coming to training camp and beat out the three guys or four guys they invited to camp beat out their partially guaranteed guys and I make that team and to start that season I'm at the end of the bench but I'm happy to be there and I know that this coach believes in me so I know that I'm gonna get an opportunity and as I would get these little minute you know few minutes here a few minutes there I would get these little minutes, you know, a few minutes here, a few minutes there,

I would make the most of it. I'd knock down a few threes, I would play defense, I'd get rebounds, I'd dive on the floor and my leash became to get a lot longer and I went from the last guy invited to camp to one of the last guys on the bench to the first or second guy off the bench to starting all in the same year.

What a remarkable turnaround. Yes. Must have felt pretty darn good. It was good, I mean, because again, I put the work in, you know what I mean, Randy, like I said, when I was telling you about my championship ring, like nothing has ever been handed to me. Like I had to grind for everything.

I think that's why I played so hard and I appreciated absolutely every game I played in because I knew it could be gone tomorrow, you know? So nothing was ever handed to me. So to be rewarded for my hard work and have a coach that believed in me, and then again, now I'm only an hour and a half away from home, so I'm not too far away from home,

so I still got family coming to all the games, my parents are driving the hour and a half trip from Sac to the Bay to come watch every home game, so I'm in a really good situation. I already talked about your mom a little bit, your fifth year in the league, your mom gets diagnosed with cancer. I think on November 1st, she died 26 days later,

stage four kidney cancer, but it spread all over. She was your best friend. She was my dog, my mom was my best friend. You know, and thinking back on it again, I think last week was the 17 year anniversary. The one thing that I was so thankful for was that she got to see me play. Because she was on some of those tough phone calls at night where mom, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to play.

I don't know if I'm gonna make it. Maybe I should go play football. I don't know what I'm gonna do. She was on the other end of a lot of those conversations. So for me to get an opportunity, And that season that we had before, the season where I, you know, grinded and made the Warriors, we made NBA history that year. You know, that was the year that, you know,

my now co-host, Steven Jackson, he gets traded to our team the end of January, and we're at the bottom of the Western Conference, and we win like 19 out of 23 or 19 out of 24 games to steal the last spot in the playoffs The Clippers lost and we won and we were in And then we were playing against Dirk Nowitzki in the Dallas Mavericks. Dirk is the MVP that season. I think they win 67 games But our coach Don Nelson was the one that was over in Dallas first and him and Mark Cuban had some kind of fallen out Before he left.

So Nelly felt like that first round game or series against Dallas was our championship. I mean, he was on it. We were so well prepared. This is the first time that they ever put smaller players on Dirk. So myself and Steven Jackson were guarding Dirk and we were slowing him down and we were double teaming him and we just frustrated the shit out of that team. So we were able to make NBA history, the first eight seed to be a number one seed in seven games. It happened before, but it never happened in seven games. So that happened,

and then we ended up losing the next round. So my mom is a part of all that. So she's in the crowd and hanging out, and my parents would even come out and sometimes go to the clubs with us after the games. They were just so proud of me and happy that they're around. And I love the fact that she got to see that because again, as you said, that season hit, I'm going back to Golden State for my second season and the season starts. Beginning of November back then she was, I remember we were just got on a plane. We had just got done playing the supersonics and I get a call from her as I'm stepping on the plane and she's crying.

I'm like, what the fuck's going on and she's like Baby I'm sick. I'm like what wrong she's like I have cancer. I'm like what do you mean? You got cancer? It's like yeah, and it's bad like what's bad. She's like it's stage four and it's all over my body I'm like, well, don't worry, you know, like you say like I was one of the best cancer research programs Like I'm gonna get you she's like no, baby. It's not like that. I'm like, what do you't worry. You know, like UCLA has one of the best cancer research programs. Like, I'm going to get you. She's like, no, baby, it's not like that. I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, it's bad.

I'm just like... So we kind of cry a little bit on that phone. And then as soon as I get back to the bay, I drive up there and kind of find out that it's spread all throughout her body. She had two huge softball-sized lumps in her chest. And the scan was so blurry that her whole upper body was just filled with cancer. So, unfortunately, she passed in 26 days of being diagnosed and that was probably one

of the hardest things I've ever had to go through because, again, our family had been through so much to get to that point. My parents, I believe it or not, were still together at that point. And I'd finally made it. And my goal was, my mom was telling me that, okay, because I used to tell my mom once I got a little older, like, Mom, this isn't for you. Why don't you leave? You know what I mean? But women back then were very dependent on whoever brought the money home.

There wasn't independent women back in the 80s and 90s where I came from. So my goal was always to buy my mom a house that was gonna be my first thing to do and when I finally started making the money to be able to do that you know I lost her. We all have proud moments in our lives things that are special when we look back at our parents I think back to my own situation and my mom, when our company went public, she had put a little money in the company and it was a life-changing event for all of us.

For my grandmother who grew up in poverty and foster care and used to sleep in closets because back then people would get paid to have a foster student and they cheered like the hell. I remember her coming out to see my house. He'd been in my house saying thank you. And I remember thinking like, making my grandmother proud was a huge moment

in my life as well. Talk to us about the special memory of your Mohawk and what that meant to you guys. Yeah, to be honest with you, I don't even know where it came from. I don't know where the idea came from, but I just wanted to change up going into that playoff situation

the previous year before she died. And this barber was really dope and he's just like, let's try this. He's like, let's do a mohawk. I'm like, I don't want a whole one like all the way down the back. That's not really my style. He's like, no, just do a half mohawk.

Like, what the hell is a half mohawk? He's like, trust me. And I did this haircut. And when I tell you, again, I wasn't the star on that team. I was definitely a prominent role player on that team. That haircut was so famous in the Bay Area, man. It was crazy. They ended up calling it a faux hawk.

Like, that's just the forward part of my hair was up and it was dope. And I think for maybe like the next two or three years, four years, every time I got to the playoffs, I would do it and kinda honor my mom. So that was cool. That was a fun time, man. That's when I first really, really jumped on the NBA scene and I was known and recognized everywhere where I went

because we had a team of misfits, you know what I mean? We were one of those teams that we were wild. And this is back obviously when cannabis is legal now in the league, but we were smoking weed every night in the clubs every night drinking, having fun, hanging out. But then we would always bust our ass the next day in the games. Like we were a team that hung out and kicked it

and went hard off the court, but went really hard on the court too. So it was just a, it was a special time in my life and kind of really, although it was my fifth year into the NBA, I kind of. So it was just a it was a special time in my life and kind of really although it was my fifth year into the NBA I kind of felt like it was almost like my first year because it was the first year I really got to play and I'd be kind of kind of became a household name after that. If your mom were here today, what would you say to her?

I'd just give her a big hug. The crazy part about it is my mom loved kids. Like I said when she used to come up and have to be the yard duty because I was fighting so much, everyone, all the girls, that's how I kind of started getting girls to like me because they like my mom. So, oh, your mom's so nice. And all the girls would hang around her as she was at the yard duty. And you know, she just had such a great aura and energy about her. But I say all that to say that my mom passed November 27, 2008. And the twins came the following year, almost a year after my mom passed.

So the one thing I wish was she just would have got to see my kids. You know what I mean? That's the one. Not necessarily a regret, but I just wish that, you know, as loving as she was and so motherly that I wish that she would have got a chance to meet, you know, my twins. I grew up in Detroit, as you know. Grew up a Pistons fan. And we won, we were a great team for many years

when I was growing up in high school, the Bad Boys. So we had Bill Ambeer, we had Rodman. I didn't know, he went to school in Palos Verdes. He went to school out here. So Bill Ambeer was the only NBA player. I didn't know, he went to school in Palos Verdes. He went to school out here. Bill Lambeer was the only NBA player whose dad made more money than he did. Crazy, it was funny. So the twins just played at Palos Verdes the other night

and I saw it, I was like, is that Bill Lambeer? He was like, oh yeah, he was the man out here and his family had good money. Lot of money. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, his dad was the CEO of a big company. Okay. Side note here, so at a charity event I

bought a two-on-two with Rick Mahorn. Right, and Rick Mahorn was part of the bad boy team. He'd get in there, he had a big ass, he'd get people out. He was a bruiser. Bruiser. Yeah. Getting in a fight, people hated him. Playing against him. So I was super excited and Rick Moore and I guess was the assistant coach on a WNBA team. For Bill Lambeer. With Bill Lambeer. So I get a note that he can't play but Bill Lambeer can come over. And so I said okay so I scheduled some of my boys from Detroit Country Day where Chris

went. Yeah Chris went there right? Yes he went there. Are you guys the same time? So he was a freshman at Country Day when I was a freshman at Michigan. Okay. Oh, so you guys missed each other by four years. We missed each other, but the interesting thing is as a freshman, he played at Chrysler

Country Day was in the finals. We were in Division C as a small private school. So you went back to support. But he was tomahawking over as a freshman. Staring at everyone as a 14, 14-year-old kid. So Bill Ambir comes over. I call my friends from Detroit. They fly in to see this.

It's now three on three because I'm going to take advantage of Bill and come to the house. Oh, you came to the house. Yeah, I came to my house and played. Oh, shit. That's dope. So it was very cool But you know the guys like six ten and he's not really in shape them But it doesn't matter like I'm six two and a half. All right, and I'm the tallest guy Yeah, so it's like I I'm playing against bill

I don't think people understand though because like you'll see us on TV and we all look the similar size And we all you'll see a guy in the bands like oh he sucks But to get next to us and to see us play with just regular people, like people don't understand how big, strong, fast, and how good NBA players are. It was, he's a monster. And the funny thing is too,

he was staying at the Beverly Hills Hotel, or not Beverly Hills, Beverly Wilshire Hotel before it became a four season, So he needed a ride back. There's no Uber then. No, it's before. So my friend Mark Borman had a Prius. And so the funny thing was Bill Lambeer getting into the Prius like it was getting into like the Ugo. It's an Indian style in the front seat.

Going back there. So you were a bad boy as well. I mean you were a very controversial player. Yeah. People hated you when they played against you. Yeah. But that was a good role for you. You made it as that role player. Well they loved, they hated to play against me and would love to play with me. I just kind of figure when I got, I feel like the chance for Golden State was kind of like my second opportunity, my second chance. And by all means necessary, I wouldn't say that I took my first opportunity for granted because again I had to go through the D League and get to the league, but I think that two

years of not playing really took it out of me. And when I got a chance to play again, it was just, I was on fire. Playing with my hair on fire. So I was just again if I had to play basketball, if I had to protect my teammates, I was taught at an early age to protect your family at all costs. So I had a dad that my brother, sister got in a fight,

no matter what happened, if I didn't get in into it or protect them, I was gonna get my ass whooped. So I've always been a protector, always. So that's how I kind of translated that into the NBA. You know I lost probably close to 600 700 thousand in the league and it was never because... For being fined? For being fined yeah it was never really because the guys were messing with me it was always because I was coming to the defense of my teammates. So I was a guy that you just

you just knew that you had to work that night playing against me. I was going to, you know, constant energy. I'm going to rebound. I'm going to knock down shots. I'm going to play hard physical defense because I grew up watching the bad boys, the Pistons, and I grew up, you know, watching magic and I was a football player at heart, you know what I mean? So I love the physicality. So I was just one of those guys, again, that's just like, you know, again, I wasn't the guy

average in 20 or 30, but I feel like I affected a lot of games just with my energy and my attitude and how hard I played so I was just someone that you know that the teams just you know like damn I got to deal with him tonight that kind of thing. You had notoriety while you were playing as this controversial angry guy and there was an incident when you were playing for the Magic where you fake ball faked in front of Kobe's face Tell us about that moment and then the moment where he called you from the block Yeah, it was uh, it was interesting because you know, I'm gonna back put a little bit

So Kobe I got to UCLA in 97 98 and Kobe got there in 96 and you know it's well documented that you know Shaq was kind of the You know, obviously the man at that point, he gave Kobe a hard time. So we would always see Kobe on campus at UCLA. You would think he would have went there. He was eating there, hanging out there, getting the girls there, chilling there, working out there, playing.

I'm just like, damn. So he used to come in and train in Polly Pavilion after we were done practicing. So I would sometimes go back in Polly and just watch him. I'm just like, damn, this dude's only two years older than me like he's fucking good like I would just watch Cope So it was an admiration at first and and kind of being able to see him and like all LA LA We got to see him grow from like a boy to a man So I was really a huge fan of Kobe at first because I just saw the work

He would put in his motherfucker worked his ass off So, you know fast forward me making the league and I'm finally starting to play. Like I didn't, I missed MJ by a year. So Cope was the man. So he was the one that back in those, those UCLA days when I was playing, he was the kind of the barometer, like, man,

if I'm going to be able to, I got to be able to guard someone like him. So fast forward to 2009, Orlando versus the Lakers, the year before they had played in the finals and the Lakers had got them. So they were expecting these teams to go back and Orlando had reloaded. They got me, Vince Carter, and Jason Williams in the offseason. So we were expected to compete in the finals.

So this is a March game, you know, playoff starting in April. So it was just a chippy early playoff pop up you know, they were dubbing it as a potential final preview and We were just going back and forth and knowing Cove and playing against Cove Cove was a mental giant. I mean, obviously physically skilled and worked his ass off and can score But he has also did a lot of just dirty Cove shit that the refs wouldn't call because he was Covey He would elbow grab Do all kinds of shit.

And I just got he had elbowed me and my sternum and like knocked the wind out of me. And I wanted to like chase him down and beat him up at that point, like literally on the court. But this one particular inbounds play, and it was dope because we had Cove's last interview on All the Smoke and we literally talked. It was the first time we had ever talked about it. And I told him, like, I want to fuck you up. I want to fight you.

And he starts kind of started laughing. But the whole thing was he was just doing shit that had ever talked about it. And I told him, I wanted to fuck you up, I wanted to fight you, and he kind of started laughing. But the whole thing was he was just doing shit that the rest weren't calling, and I was getting called for and I was pissed off, so I was just like, I wanted to fight him. So the ball fake wasn't premeditated, it kind of just happened. We ended up winning, I had a big three down the stretch

to clinch the game. Fast forward, end of the season, we're in the Eastern Conference Finals and we lose to Boston. So Boston and the Lakers play in the finals, Kobe gets his revenge from a previous years of losing to Boston, they win again and then that offseason contracts got a little funny. I was heard I was gonna get a certain amount of money and then when it was my turn to re-up that money wasn't there anymore. So I was a little disappointed that I felt like I had been lied to and let on. So I was open to moving because I didn't really want the money that was being offered at the

time. So I'm talking to Pat Riley. And for context, this is the year that on the low that the Miami Heat are forming their big three. So LeBron's headed there, Chris Bosh is headed there, and I'm talking to Pat Riley, talked to D Wade one time, and Pat's telling me our closing lineup will be Dwayne, you, Mike Miller, or Dwayne, you, Mike Miller, Braun, and Chris Bosh, and I'm thinking,

we could do some damage with that lineup. So I'm thinking that I'm gonna go from Orlando, just up the freeway to Miami. And I get a call from a number I don't know. And people tell you now that even know me, like sometimes I don't answer numbers that I do know. But for some reason, this day I picked up the phone and it was someone was like, what's up, is Matt there?

I'm like, this is Matt. I was like, who's this? He's like, it's Cove. Like, get the fuck out of here. Like, who's this? He's like, nah, man, it's Cove. And then once he said it again, I was like, what's up, is Matt there? I was like, is Matt? I was like, who's this? He's like, it's Cove. Like, get the fuck out of here. Like, who's this? He's like, no, man, it's Cove. And then once he said it again, I was like, oh, it really is Cove.

I was like, what's up, man? He says, oh, man, what's going on? I was like, I don't know. I was like, congratulations on the championship. He's like, oh, I appreciate it. And we kind of start talking. And he's like, anyone crazy enough to fuck with me is crazy enough to play with me.

Like, what are you going to do this season? So I kind of tell him, I might be going to Miami. He's like, well, do you want to be a Laker tell him I might be going to Miami he's like what do you want to be a Laker you know and I told you I was raised a Magic Johnson Laker fan I'm like hell yeah I want to be a Laker and literally like three or four days later I was a Laker like I had signed flew out to LA signed the contract and you know that kind of began and it was weird too because even up to this day like some people like oh you you know Kobe didn't fuck with you or

you guys weren't this it was just like if they knew how close we really were like he literally recruited me to the team he recruited Ron Artesta season before he was I guess he was just tired of dealing with us assholes he's just like I'm gonna get these two assholes on my team so me and Ron are Lakers now but we really got a chance to just bond you know we went from you know an admiration I had for him because I saw his come up and then obviously the respect I had because he was the best player in the league at the time.

But just day to day seeing his work ethic and hanging out with him off the court and going out and everyone used to say like, yo, Cove never went out, how'd you used to get, Cove would want to go out with me. You know what I mean? I had a tradition every time we'd go on the road, like as soon as I'd land, I'd go in the bathroom

and put all the towels down and smoke because I would smoke every go on the road like I as soon as I land I'd go in the bathroom and and and put all the towels down To smoke I would because I was smoked every time we landed so Cove it would hit me like oh, what are you about to do? Well, you know, I'm about to smoke. It's like when you're done smoking. Let me know. Let's go do Let's go get some food or let's go out this way. He's small No, he wouldn't he told me we won a championship together. We would smoke and we unfortunately we didn't But for some reason he took to me and and think, you know, obviously we were super close teammates but I think we became closer post-career because he started coaching Gigi and I was coaching the twins so we would always go out to Orange County and play and you know, one thing else

Yeah, it wasn't a mamba then, it was just OGP out there. Mamba facility came later but I remember, backtrack a little bit, I remember right when I got to the Lakers, you know, Cove took the twins and like they were his like it was always uncle Cove I'd probably say the twins were maybe four years old when they started getting cut every time Coby released a shoe boys Austin And no, this is Carter and Isaiah Four-year-old or four-month-old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So every time Cove released a shoe, the twins would get it. And then when they started playing basketball teams,

he was in the whole team shoe. So fast forward me being retired now, and as soon as I retired, I want to start coaching my kids. So he'd be out in North County. We'd connect like, yo, what time did Gigi play tomorrow? What time do you guys play tomorrow? And it would be sometimes where we'd play two hours before. We'd play the 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock game.

Gigi might not play until 11 or 12. Kobe would be there at eight o'clock in the morning watching these fucking eight-year-olds play like eight-year-olds is not too much fun to watch but the fact that he would come and watch my kids play it just it spoke volumes and then obviously you know I'd go and watch Gigi play and I surprised the twins for their tenth birthday with the with the surprise workout from Kobe I kept them home from school and they were just, what are we doing? Super excited. They didn't know where we were going, hour drive.

They passed out on the way there. I tell them to wake up and they get out and we go into this gym and it's Cove. And they just, oh my God, dad. And he gave a, when I tell you he worked them so hard, he made one of the twins cry. And I loved it. Like I didn't step in as a dad at all. I'm just like, take this shit. You know what I mean? This is one of the greatest greatest ever do it. Like listen to what he's doing.

And he just kind of really became obviously he was uncle Cove to the boys, but just the way he loved my sons and supported them and always sent to this day, you know, Vanessa's kind of stepped up to where Cove left off. Vanessa still sends the boy shoes all the time. She just sent their whole high school shoes. So Cove and I were really close and it broke my whole heart. Obviously, the world felt it, but to be as close as we were and then to hear how it went down and they were traveling to a game and all that kind of stuff, it really to this and

it still gives me chills to think about it's just like, you never think superheroes are gonna die. And we all lost Cove much too soon. How are his kids doing today? To be honest with you, I don't talk to the kids a ton. Vanessa and I, I'll text and reach out. Maybe text once or twice a month. Just I'll check in, hey, how are you and the girls doing?

And kinda seeing the progress because they're kinda starting to build up Cove. Continue to build Cove's legacy on the Nike side and doing stuff with Nike and stuff. So I'm always just kind of checking in and sending my love to her and the girls. And from the outside looking in, they look like they're doing great.

Played 15 years in the league, the average player plays 4.8 years in the league. You outlasted lottery picks. And you said that it's because you know what your role is How important is it for anyone to be successful to know what their role is? I think that applies to life to business and then obviously to the game I just think you know, there's there's there's there's special players on all folks that on our game There's just some guys that are

God-given monsters, you know, you look at Steph and you look at Kobe and Michael Jordan, those guys are Kevin Durant because scored 30 points in their sleep. That wasn't necessarily my game. And I think that's where a lot of guys lose it is they have an idea of what they want to be or what they think they can do. But sometimes the skill don't add up to that. So I just found out early on with that Golden State team what my role was. Would I have liked to score more points and took more shots. Absolutely, but I just wasn't my calling

You know, I used to once I had bounced around those first four years Every time I got on the team, I would you know coach. What are you looking for me to do? You would tell me and I would go out and do that shit and play defense You know be tough nose to be a deaf nose defender rebound get loose balls Give us 50-50 balls and knock down your shots, you know so there was sometimes two shots five, rebound, get loose balls, give us 50-50 balls, and knock down your shots. So there was sometimes two shots, five shots, sometimes I get 15 shots, but whatever it was, just be efficient with your shots and play my role.

So I just knew every time what my role was when I was out there, and that's why I played until I didn't wanna play anymore. Again, I was never, I was a role player, I was a journeyman, but not too often do you get to go out on your own terms in professional sports. Sometimes it's you know you play until you're too old and you're a good player and it's just time to go or sometimes the mental gets into it or just sometimes they just don't

want you in the league no more but I was someone who was a bad boy and I got to go out on my own accord. I was able to actually go out with two years left on my deal so when I retired in 2017 I still had two years of being paid NBA money and that's when you kind of figuring out what was next you know kind of kicked in. We'll talk about that in a minute but I still want to go back I want to talk about the We Believe team. Yeah. In 2007 we were elected captain of the team that year and I think we all see the C, the letter C on the jerseys and I don't think we know how that happens.

So what's the process of becoming captain? Is it, you know, you put your vote in a hat, no one looks at it, raise your hand. Normally it's the best players. That's it. Normally it's the best players or just who the leaders are. But if you think back on how... Who decides though? The coach. The coach picks the captain.

But the crazy part is if you think about how significant me having a C on my, you know, being a captain was, I was the last invitee to training camp that year. I'm the 20th guy coming into training camp and I even forgot I was a captain on that team. It's crazy you said that like when it was all said and done, like I was a captain on a team that I wasn't even supposed to be on. You know what I mean? So it was just, and what was funny about that,

and I don't ever want to seem like I'm more than what I was, but wherever I went, I was always a voice that can talk to the star, but also was able to get guys to rally around me because I led by example. I wasn't someone that was going to talk your face off or try to over talk because I knew what my role was, but I would play hard as fuck and I would do anything for my team. So I just think I always gained, like you said, guys hated to play against me, but they

loved to play with me because I was a teammate that you wanted to go on the foxhole with because I was going to be if they mess with you, they mess with me. We know we're going to war today And I just think I led by example. That's why I had a prominent voice. And I played with a lot of stars but I was one of those few role players that had the respect from the stars as well. I think everyone thinks to be successful in life, you got to be a superstar. But talk to all the non-scores people.

How important is it to just be a team player and be a part and contributor to the team? I was even in business now. I like to be a small part of something big and then a big part of nothing. You know what I mean? I just played my role and that's important. That's very important. I felt like I was a blue collar worker in the NBA.

I was one of those hard hat lunch pail type guys. And I was able to carry that obviously through the league, but into business. Being able to just understand and being a good person. I think one thing that gets overlooked, especially for professional athletes, is understanding how powerful being a good person is. I was someone that always shook hands, always took pictures, always signed autographs.

Because as I started going through the NBA, I realized like all these people sitting around court side are people like you and the owners of Disney and big corporation people. So I just started realizing that, my future could be sitting court side tonight. So I was someone who, I would let kids come out and rebound for me

while I was warming up. I passed the ball to people and especially too, because everyone thought I was a thug or a bad guy. So I kind of got to, and this is, I think most of this is pre-social media. I mean, I caught social media like my last three or four years in the league. So what ESPN said about me or what the LA Times wrote about me was kind of like law because I didn't have a voice at that time. You know what I mean?

So to be able to show people the other side or the softer side or just the Articulate side or the gentle side. I knew how to kind of play that game early on and and I think Aspirational because you know most of the you know guys like Steph and LeBron and and and even Cove like when the when the ball starts dribbling like their stardom will Lead them into whatever their next venture is and they'll have a ton of success. And not because they don't deserve it, but they're gonna get an opportunity because they're a star. I was able to get those same opportunities

being a role player by doing everything I just told you, doing shit the right way and being respectable and showing respect and giving love and taking that extra moment to take a picture maybe if I don't want to or sign an autograph when I'm tired. I just kind of went out of my way to show the world that pre social media that I wasn't this villain that I kind of took on a villain persona.

And just to show the person that it was almost like, it's funny, I'll backtrack a little bit. So after I ballfaked Cove, I got death threats. People don't come to LA, we're going to kill you, like all this kind of wild shit. And towards the end of my career, like I let the twins start traveling with me and they were huge wrestling fans. They love they were always, they're always wrestling each other and doing wrestling tricks and shit. So I would take them on road trips and they would be like, dad, why do

the fans boo you when they announced your name in the starting lineup? And I'm like, damn, like, what do I tell them? And it just hit me because they love wrestling. I'm just like, well, daddy always has to guard the best player. So daddy every night has to, he has to, I'm like the Undertaker that takes on Hulk Hogan. You know what I mean? Like the best players, the stars, they're like Hulk Hogan, but daddy's like the Undertaker. So, oh yeah, you were black and you go out there. And then I just kind of gave him that, like,

I'm the guy that you don't want to see coming. I'm the guy that you boo for because you know, I'm going to go out there and try to, you know, make it, make it tough for the best player every night. So just them kind of seeing that, that, and understanding that, but I was given that villain role and at first it kind of hurt because I didn't feel like I was a bad person,

but then I was just like, shit, if this is what it's going to take for me to last in this league, like let me be a bad motherfucker then. So that's when I kind of started not caring as much. Again, like I would, this is when I would now slap refs on the off-season. I had to slap a coach one time in a summer league game in San Francisco because he was cussing at me from the sidelines and people were like, what the hell? Like I went over and literally slapped him.

Like I just kind of started being like, you want to be a bad guy, I'm gonna show you how to be a bad guy. So I kind of embraced that role, but at the same time it was in me, but it wasn't who I was. So I really tried to, at times, as I was just saying,

show people the full repertoire of who Matt Barnes was. Was your kids fly on the team plane? When you said they traveled? Yeah, they got to the, what team was that? repertoire of who Matt Barnes was. Were their kids fly on the team plane? They got to the, what team was that? Yeah, so the team that was the dopest about it was the Golden State Warriors at the very end. They were on the team plane, they were sitting up by the players.

Coach Kerr would let them come and practice. I remember in the Western Conference Finals, I'm still getting treatment because I'm not healthy, we're playing against Houston. And next thing I know, I look out there and the twins are shooting with Steph and KD, like on the court. I'm like, what the fuck are you?

Like I was about to call them back over, but Coach Kerr, like just let them do it. So they're over here shooting in the Western Conference Finals. I remember there was one game they traveled before the playoffs came and I was coming off the bench for that team and we were in San Antonio

and I guess they wanted to start me on Kawhi that night. So we were at team breakfast and that team breakfast after team breakfast the team normally watches film. So we're going through it and Coach Curry even actually tells a story when he comes on my podcast because I forgot about it but the twins are in there were eating and they're eating their pancakes and everything and we start watching film and Coach Curry goes tonight Matt you got Kawhi you're starting and you know I'm 15 years and I'm alright coach I'm ready.

The fucking twins lost their mind. Like they put their forks down, jump up and down, smiling like, you know, daddy had won a championship already, so, you know, that was one of those times when you say to the kids, that was the best part of my career was the last three or four years that the twins were around everything. They were in the locker room with Kobe.

They were in the locker room with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin and that that that Lob City team. They were in the locker room with Kobe. They were in the locker room with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin and that that that Lob City team. They were in the locker room with Steph, Katie and Clay. I remember we're in the, was it Western finals or second round of the Western finals against San Antonio and we had just clinched I think the Western finals and I got out of the shower and I'm looking for the twins and they're over in Clay Thompson's locker and Clay is teaching them how to make paper airplanes. And I'm just like, these kids don't know how fucking lucky they are, man. They're sitting here with one of the greatest shooters of all time and Clay is folding paper airplanes out of

the box scores and they're throwing paper airplanes all over the locker room. I'm like, yeah, these kids don't know how good they got it. You talked about playing for the Warriors, one of the best organizations in the NBA. How important is the quality of the organization in terms of contributing to being a winning organization? It's everything because I got to see two sides of it. When I went to the Warriors the first time, you know, I wouldn't want to say bad if you're an owner but just not very good owners and they didn't, they paid the wrong people and ran through coaches and always would sign the wrong free agents.

And then I go back 10 years later, right before I retire and it's a new ownership group. Pierre Goober and Jason Blackham. When I tell you at Lakeham, everything was taken care of. When I tell you all they wanted you to just focus on basketball, they took care of your ticket requests, no matter how many tickets you need, they'll take care of like when I tell you all they wanted you to just focus on basketball like they took care of your ticket requests no matter how many tickets you need they'll take care of it food all the treatment like anything you can ever

mad like when they think that when people think professional athletes and luxury like some of it is not like when I first played for the Clippers that we practiced at Southwest College out here we had to keep the back doors open so people didn't rob our cars like when I first played with the Cubs with Donald Sterling it was trash. But fast-forward back to Guber and these guys like they just took care of everything. Even when it came to the playoffs they chartered a whole entire private plane for our families and took care of their hotels and flights and all this and it was just like it was such an amazing energy like it. That warrior team it was

fun to go in on off days, our entire team would be in there. I'd be on off day or I'd have off days with other teams where no one would show up. Not even me. You know what I mean? Like, but with this Golden State team, they really caught lightning in a bottle for those three or four years where it was just you wanted to be around the team. The energy was great. They laid out the ultimate red carpet for you. But to answer your question, it all starts at the top. If you have faulty leadership, you won't go anywhere because I think it trickles down. And you know, especially being in business, you know, you're only as strong as your weakest

piece, but I really think it starts at the top. And these guys just did absolutely everything to make sure that all we had to do was focus on basketball. Well, let's put down one level now. How important is a coach actually contributes your success? It's important. And I think there's different levels to it, because I've had guys that have been very hands on, like a Stan Van Gundy, super huge X and O's guys. And whenever he talks, he starts fumbling out of his mouth

with the white shit. And you have to kind of do this. But he's really hands on. He wants to call every single play every single time. And I've had guys like Phil Jackson that kind of sit back and let shit go you know I mean if you're on the court he trusts you he's implemented his system and he'll do his whistle if he needs to get your attention. Let's go to December 10th 1995 you're playing the Pistons you're with the Grizzlies my Pistons 1.1 second to go and you drain swish a three-pointer half-court 47 feet away was that the highlight of your career? 1.1 second to go, and you drain swish a three pointer,

half court, 47 feet away. Was that the highlight of your career? No, it was probably the wildest. So it was actually, so I shot, I wanna say, I shot the ball with like three or four seconds left. And after I hit it, there was 1.1. So I actually, I technically shot the ball too early, but the funny part was, like I, looking back,

I didn't know, cause I was, you know, I grabbed the rebound and our coaches are like screaming, call timeout, but I just took off dribbling. I didn't hear them, I didn't care to hear them. I was just ready to get out of Detroit. And I went in there and I saw these guys kind of collapsing on me, so I pulled up from half court,

ended up draining it, and then look at the clock, after the team calls timeout, I'm like, oh shit, there's still like 1.1 seconds. I shot the ball too early, but it was a cool moment, you know what I mean, to be able to, you know, obviously anytime you hit a buzzer beater to win a game is dope, but you know, my buzzer beater was a little bit too early. One of the most notorious and worst moments, I think, in the history of professional sports was something called the mouse at the palace of Auburn Hills crazy so during that

event that's your home town yeah my hometown the Pacers were playing the Pistons yes and fans were getting all over some guy that Ron Artest was there and Ron Artest went up in the fan went up in the stands I mean 12 rows deep and he started beating on a fan. Crazy moment. Met as a great guy, by the way, I know he's a friend of yours, he's a friend of mine, you know, he lost a salary, a whole year's salary, which is huge money then, three million dollars.

Today you see a lot of fan involvement and drawing of fans on the court. You see it at football games, people throwing beer. You saw it at a football game this past weekend, a Detroit Lions fan, best team in, you know, Go Lions, I'm a Detroiter, saying something to the Green Bay coach. How far is too far?

Can people who are sitting courtside be trash-talking the players? And at what point does it get too much? I think it's that there's no line there anymore. And I'm all for fan interaction. I think it makes the game better but I think last five seven years obviously the situation at the end the palace was crazy but I think people feel like I'm paying all this money for this ticket I can do whatever I want here and obviously you add alcohol to that kind of mindset and you

see unfortunate situations. Fans saying whatever. I mean you could talk trash all day but I think now it's personal shots and obviously they're recording when they say it so if they get a reaction they can go viral. So I just you know I feel like athlete or excuse me I feel like fans some this is not a blanket statement but some fans look at us like they try to poke us like caged animals at the zoo like let me see if I can say some wild shit to make him respond and I'll film him and I'll go viral let me throw something and see if I can hit him and I can tell this story to everybody so it's a scary line

because obviously you never want to see something like the malice in the palace but you know what fans are crazy these days and I think and a majority of fans are just good fans. And if you wanna scream and yell and cuss at us, as an away team coming into your home gym or home field, I love it. But when it starts getting personal and you're taking personal shots

and saying just the most disrespectful stuff and then when you're throwing stuff, hopefully, fingers crossed, it doesn't happen, but that's how people get hurt. You can say, hey man, you fucking suck, but you can't talk about your family. Yeah, your family, kids, exes, all that kind of, you should have saw how much shit was talked after the Derek Fitcher situation initially. You know what I mean?

So it's just like, you gotta, there has to be some rhyme or reason to it, but I mean, what kind of rules do you implement if you're a you know if you're a owner of a team or if you're owner of a stadium or an arena like it's hard to kind of where's the line to draw so I mean you hope just you know that the morals of a person would understand or the character of a person but like you said I mean Sporting which are supposed to be fun and then you go and you add a little bit of alcohol to that and enhances the experience And you a little bit more braver than you normally are and you say some wild shit. So and enhances the experience and you a little bit more braver than you normally are and you say some wild shit so unfortunately it kind of is what it is I

don't see a solution for it to be honest with you I know people who do get caught throwing stuff or you know doing some stuff get banned or kicked out but I had a couple situations you know during my career where if I would have got my hands on someone that would have said something or through some it would it would have been problems so obviously you don't want to see that. You want to come out and cheer for your team or cheer for your players and everyone make it home safely. But that definitely is a problem and to be honest with you, Randy, I don't know how to

fix it or if there's actually even a solution for it. Let's talk about money. And I'm going to go through some numbers here as well on the money. You made a little over $35 million over the course of your career. At the beginning, you made $300,000 to $500,000 in your first few seasons. Pre-tax, you blew a lot of that, you said, at the end of each summer. The money today is crazy in the NBA. You got $76 billion new contract for the NBA over 11 years.

The players get by collective bargaining 51% of all basketball revenues. So that's an increase this year to last year. And every season, 160% more revenues. We're going to see the first $100 million salaries by the 2032, 2033 season. Luka Donsik is going to be the first salaried NBA billionaire. If you look back to your career 22 years ago when you started, would you ever would have

thought you're going to see players making $100 million a year in salary? No, no. But I credit that to obviously David Stern's vision of being able to highlight individual players in a team sport. His goal was to always make this game global and if to do that he needed to ride the back of stars and you know Magic and Larry kind of started it and then MJ came and then Kobe came and Bron came and and and all the young great players today and Adam Silver's done a great job of kind of continuing his vision to grow the game globally. You see a huge European influx you know I think European players are one of the last four or five MVP's of

Unamused taken. I think it's beautiful you know I'm not one of those older guys like oh you know fuck these younger kids they're not like I love it because partly because I have five sons you know what I mean so excuse me six sons now you know so hopefully one of them will catch lightning in a bottle and be able to kind of tap into that but if you think you know I made a little bit you know 35 million like guys are getting paid more than that in one year now you know I mean it like you said and in the next five years the guys are gonna be making a hundred million dollars a year which is insane but I just think it shows the growth of the game and you know

it's really a global sport now and and the odds to make it are crazy you know I just I feel like we live in obviously this social media driven era where negativity unfortunately outweighs the positivity but you just hear so much negativity about professional athletes it but if you understood how hard it was to especially basketball, like literally every kid in the world now dreams to play in the NBA. And you know, you gave some statistics earlier, but it's just like you're better off getting struck by lightning than making it in the NBA.

So you know, my hats off to all these guys that play this game and who continue to grow the game. Would I like to see a little bit more defense? Absolutely. But you know, these guys are super skilled and super talented and the money is reflecting that. I think people have a tremendous misconception of what comes down to the bottom line of an NBA player. Jason Tatum just signed the biggest deal in NBA history five years, $350 million contract, $62.8 million a year. So let's go through what comes out of that.

You've got $23.2 million in federal taxes. You've got $4.7 million in a jock tax. You got extra tax for the privilege of being a professional athlete. You've got $8.1 million escrow and agent fees. You've got $1.4 million in FICA and Medicare deductions. Your take home of that $63.8 million is $25.2 million. The players get 40% of the contract value.

Insane. And people don't understand that. And I think it's dropped a little bit. It used to be half. They say we used to get half, but any you see you chop it in half and then now it's chopping in half and take 10 more percent It's great, especially living in California to California. It's nasty out here with with tax, but It just is what it is it's crazy, but also I don't you know There was a stigma not necessarily a stigma, but

you know, guys back before me and even guys I played with like going broke was a big thing with professional athletes. But I think financial literacy is a huge part of professional sports now. And it's almost cool to be aware and invest in what are you in? Like when I was in the league and there, you know, when I came in the early 2000s, we were talking about women, cars, rims, and jewelry you know with that Golden State team by the time I was leaving they were talking about Silicon Valley and investments and opportunity and who's coming to the game tonight and what fund is gonna be there

I'm like holy shit I wish this would have started a little bit earlier you know I mean like to be financially aware is really cool now which I think is great because these kids are making a ton of money and a ton of opportunity and understanding that, you know, they're their own business. They're a walking business every day. So you know, one of your producers asked about NILs and all this kind of stuff. These kids are getting crazy money starting at a very early age now. So I'm glad that there's some guidance and some education coming with that because it's a ton of money.

Let's talk about female WNBA basketball players. Kaitlyn Clark has completely changed the nature and popularity of women's basketball. The NCAA women's finals last year, 18.9 million viewers. Men's final, 14.3 million viewers. It was the most watched finals of any men or women's game, professional game, since 2019. Wow, I love it. I think it's great. The growth of the women's game has been huge

and there's a handful of women, but I think Caitlin Clark is leading the charge. They said she was responsible for like 32% of the revenue boost in the women's game this year which is incredible. Very humble, very hard-working girl who took a lot of shit at the beginning of the season. I think there's a lot of jealousy and people say what they want, no it's not this. You can see it. You don't have to say stuff sometimes, you can see it. And I remember I made a

comment, she was just getting beat up and it just disgusted me that her teammates didn't have her back because I was one of those guys, you touch Cope, you touch CP, like I'm on your head, you know what I mean? And the fact that this girl night in night out was getting beat up and her teammates

weren't even helping her off the court, like they were just kinda, and I made a comment, it went super viral, this guy said it got almost over a billion impressions. That how do you not have your teammates back? You know, how do you not? And, you know, I think as the season wore along, they kind of started, you know, having her back more and then she started coming into her own.

You know, you hear all these, she can't do this on this level. This is a whole different level. This girl is special. She can shoot the ball like Steph. She can pass the ball and she's a competitor. And she really just came out, I think she won an award the other day and she came out and said, you know, that all this is coming off the backs of black women in this sport. I don't remember the exact quote. I don't want to butcher the quote.

You can look it up. But she pays homage to who deserves to be paid homage. I think she does everything right and that alone will bother people. You know what I mean? They want to kind of try to find a flaw in somebody. And I think Kathan Clark has been a huge, huge instrumental key to just shining a light on a game that needed more light shined on it. These girls are extremely talented, but I think they get knocked because they're not athletic.

But I would argue that some of these women are more skilled than the men because we get away with athleticism and strength in our game. These women don't get it. These women have to be skilled to be able to succeed in their game. So my hat's off to not only Kaitlyn, but this entire league.

I think it's beautiful. It gives my daughter something to aspire to. She's a basketball player, and it just gives hope to a lot of young girls now that you know that professional sports and particularly basketball is an option and you know if they're fortunate enough. A lot of controversy should she be on the US Olympic team. I think people are just waiting to destroy her if she opened her mouth. I think we all wanted to see her on the team because we all wanted to see her play. I think all the fans wanted to see her if she opened her mouth. I think we all wanted to see her on the team because we all wanted to see her play.

I think all the fans wanted to see her play. Then there's all, she's not one of the best 12 players in the US. And they asked her, they asked her, and she said whatever they decide, they decide basically I don't deserve to be there, I'll get my chance in four years. Class act.

Mm-hmm. And again, that, the fact that, and I hope for no blunders at all, but she just handled everything so well. You know, whether that's her or her PR team or just being raised the right way. She answered every question the right way. She didn't give nothing, but nobody no click bait or a reason to hate on her. Like she just, she was a humble star in the making. And I definitely think they made a mistake not putting her on the team, cause she's much watched. And then she just brings so many eyeballs to the sport.

And it was just, you know, you see, you see there was a lot of jealousy from women, whether they be hall of famers that are still playing or vets or even young people. And it's just like, you know, they wanted to kind of show what the deal was, but she showed through hard work and dedication and being a good person, man, that, you know, that she is and she's gotten all the credit that she deserves.

I mean, that's not to say that, you know, I'm a big fan of Angela Reese, too, and the lane she's been able to carve out for herself. And then like the Asia Wilsons and the women that have been carrying this league for years, I just think that people needed to understand that, you know, Kaitlyn was the vehicle that brought more eyeballs. You know what I mean? Because of her, things will change in this game. And you hear changes like private plans for some teams now, and she's selling out arenas wherever she goes.

So I mean, I'm all for the growth. The NBA has gone through extreme growth over the last 30-plus years. And the fact that I think the WNBA is coming into their 28th and 29th year, and they have pretty much a new logo. She is the face of the league. I'm not saying she's the best player.

I think one day she could possibly be the best player, but she's definitely probably the face of the league and one of the most popular athletes in the world. And I'm just happy for her and the rest of these women that they're starting to get the eyeballs and attention and at the end of the day that's going to drive up revenue. 338,000 over four years, 78,000 per year, the average salary in WNBA is 147,000. Yeah, that's crazy.

Average in the NBA, 14.3 million this year. Are we ever going to see salaries, I mean, it can be I'm not saying it this way I'm gonna say it's back in the day would say he's a scrub, right? I mean But average players making 14.3 million dollars a year Unbelievable. So are we ever gonna see women's salaries get into the millions of dollars a year? I think millions. I think low millions, I think so. I think the game has continued to grow and you just have to get more eyeballs on the game.

And I think that's what they're starting to do. I think the more sponsors are interested in these women now. And I do think that the salaries will grow. I don't think we'll ever see, and I hope, I would love to be proved wrong, but I don't ever see us getting, I don't think, off straight basketball, I don't think there'll ever be like a $10 million a year salary in the WNBA,

but I can definitely see it getting to, you know, three, four, possibly five million a year. And again, I hope I'm wrong with the 10 thing, I hope these women continue to climb the ladder and make as much money as you possibly can, but I just think you know they're definitely on the right track now. If you look back in your 20 at EMBA where they were and your 20 at the WMA were there where there's a lot of similarities and you

know you see how much this game has grown in the last 30 years and again I think Caitlin Clark and Andrea Reese and this this young crew that have come are gonna spark the minds of a lot of young women around the world and they're gonna continue to grow the game. You've talked about life after basketball. Tell us about meeting with Brian Daly and that aspect of your career and how basically you didn't think it was gonna happen, something just kind of came to you. I didn't know what was gonna happen. You know, when I first retired, I was a huge cannabis advocate.

So I was flying back and forth to New York to talk to the NBA and the Players Association about just studying the plant more and understanding the benefits from the plant. Lo and behold, in 2020, they finally stopped testing. So I like to say that maybe my visits did pay off a little bit. But then I didn't really know what I really wanted to do. I made a few small investments that were kind of starting to turn, but I knew that I wanted to do something. Someone nudged me into getting into media.

You're always so well-spoken in your interviews. You should try doing sports media. Yeah, I think back when I played, there was a line in the sand like, we didn't really fuck with, excuse my language, we didn't really mess with the media because we didn't have a rebuttal to whatever they would change. They could take our words and do whatever with it and what they said was it. Fast forward, social media is in the play now.

And so I just wasn't really quick to jump in the media space, but someone was really persistent and pushed me into doing it. And once I did it, it opened up my eyes and really changed my life. It changed my post-career trajectory. I did a little bit of Fox. I was with ESPN for almost three and a half, four years.

I learned a lot about the business of media. So Brian Daly comes into my life in 2000. I retire in 2017. I meet Brian Daly and it was random because again, I was doing ESPN at the time and I did a documentary for Showtime. I was speaking for DeMarcus Cousins documentary and the producer after he's like, hey, I heard you wanna start a podcast.

I'm like, how did you hear that? But yeah, I do. He's like, he needed to meet with my friend Brian daily over at Showtime. I'm like, like Showtime, like the network, they're like, yeah, they just started a digital component called Showtime basketball. I think you'd be a great fit. I'm like, well, shit, I'm, I'm all for it. So he connects the dots.

He flies out, out here. We meet at the Lowe's hotels in Santa Monica. We took two or three shots of tequila. I pitched him a man cave barbershop conversation with cameras on it. And I had to smoke. I wanted to be able to smoke. I wanted to be the first athlete on TV really smoking.

And he was all for it. And next thing you know, we're shooting a pilot and we're off to the races. So at the time, we really didn't know what we had. All the podcasts weren't new at the time, but sports podcasts were fairly new at the time. I want to say like we were the second one to maybe kind of jump in the space. And I always show love to the knuckleheads because I think they were a little bit before us.

But I really feel like we came in this space and kicked open and started a whole new wave of sports media not just basketball but sports media. Like when I came in to the podcast space you could probably count in the whole entire world you could probably count the sports podcasts on your hand on one hand there may have been two three four five at the most and if you look at it now who doesn't have a podcast in the sports space? You know what I mean? So we were one of the originators.

You know, they like to call us the OGs of the space, but I just love the fact that we're here. Again, because, and people say, you know, the space is watered down, but I don't necessarily look at it as it being watered down because I feel like every player in this space has their own unique journey, their own unique story and their own unique way of telling it. And if I'm a fan, although I love the Stephen A and shout out to Stephen A, I think he's

about to get a record breaking 121 million dollars. That's my guy. Let me borrow some, but you know. I'll take some of that too. Right. Seriously, like as much as I love these guys, like they didn't play it at this level, you know. So if I'm a fan, I'm thinking like, I want to hear it from a guy that actually did it.

Now although there's a place for these guys that didn't and that are well spoken and versed in the subject, but if I'm a down hardcore fan, I love the fact that I can listen to me and Stack. I can listen to Draymond. I can listen to Paul George. I can listen to Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett. I can listen to Pat Bev. And the list goes on of JJ Reddick was great know, jumped on and took the Lakers coaching job.

So you're just getting a unique perspective. You're allowing the players to create our own narratives and we're giving opportunities to all our brothers and sisters to tell their own stories. So you know, we were able to turn all the smoke podcasts, you know, our first year award-winning podcast four years after that, we were able to turn it into a whole company. So we launched all the smoke productions in January 1 of 2024 and signed a nice healthy deal with Draft Kings and we've been on the move since. So we've created about four or five shows. I have a slate of former NBA stars. We've gone vertical in the NFL space. We just launched our boxing space with Andre Ward and Roy Jones,

so they're heading that side. We're going to get into golf in 2025. So we've just, you know, we want to be in the next three to five years, one of the most authentic, real brands that are telling these stories. And I think we're off to a great start. But yeah, really, it all started with, you know, obviously me jumping into sports media with ESPN and Fox, but Brian Daly taking a chance on me. And when Paramount came in about a year and a half ago, they were coming in and you're hearing, no, they're gonna take over Showtime,

but we're not really sure. So we're thinking like, damn, we started something good. Are we gonna be done? So when you start hearing the uncertainty, I'm like, well, no, I'm gonna start my own company. And regardless, we're gonna be straight. So when you start hearing the uncertainty, I'm like, well, now I'm gonna start my own company, and regardless, we're gonna be straight. So I started with myself and Jelani McCoy, all the smoke productions,

and then when Showtime went under, I got Brian Daly, the guy that gave me the opportunity to come and be the third co-founder with us, and we launched all the smoke productions. What's your advice to everybody who wants someone to take a chance on them? What should they be wants to want to take a chance on that? What should they be doing? You've got to take a chance on yourself first.

You've got to believe in yourself. Particularly if we're talking this pod in multimedia space, I mean, there's a ton of talking heads now. Any subject, you can find a podcast on it now. But to me, I don't think it's over saturated because if you can talk and you have a unique story, they're going to, you story, your voice will be heard. So study, prepare for this. This is a real, people think, oh a podcast,

you know podcasts are work. You gotta do a lot of research, you gotta get a building, you gotta have all kinds of different cameras, you gotta have great producers. But again, I was someone who learned the front and back side. I learned this side of it and I learned your side of it, but I also learned the business

side of it and understanding what our worth was and being able to be the first one to got, I got our podcast paid for the digital and audio that hadn't been done in the space before. So I got an I heart deal and a showtime deal to double up our revenue. So there's just, you know, being a student of the game, you know, humbling yourself and understanding, man, you've got to put the work in in this space if you want to make it. Back in the 80s, 40% of NBA players were doing cocaine. And the statistics say as high as 70% were doing cocaine, according to the Washington Post. Are drugs still a problem in the NBA? No. And that's not to say some of these recreational drugs that aren't allowed in the game aren't

happening because we don't know what everyone does with their own time. But I just know, again, I was an advocate for this plant. You know, obviously, I always tip my hat to Ricky Williams because I think he was before his time. You know, he pretty much lost his career with the Miami Alphans for kind of standing up for cannabis and the benefits of it. But I just think this plan is tremendous. And again, there's several different ways to use it.

I think this plan has something for our children all the way to our grandparents. And I love that the professional sports league, if I'm not mistaken, none of the three major sports in the United States test for it anymore. Football, baseball, and basketball, I think it's not a banned substance anymore. So I just think it's a great alternative because we all know the biggest epidemic we have is the opioid epidemic. And I'm firsthand can tell you that, and I didn't even play football, football guys said

that it was worse than what we have, but they will give you absolutely anything to get you back on that court. Whether it be Toradol, Vicodin, anything you can imagine. Oxycontin, the Viotrex that they used to tear it, like they will give you anything to get you back out there, but then at the same time if you smoke weed Back when I was playing you risked your career you risked to find you risked being suspended

So I think the game has come a long way in that space. I would say now from that 80s statistic I'd probably say like yeah 75 80 percent of guys Do use it now It was really high when I was playing but it was kind of like an unspoken word like you kind of just knew who Smoked on each team and if you would kick it with them you guys would rally up but it was kind of like an unspoken word. Like you kind of just knew who smoked on each team and if you would kick it with them, you guys would rally up. But it was kind of like you really had to be prepared because you get four random drug tests.

So, you know, me and you go out tonight after a game and we go grab dinner. And then after we go back to the room and smoke a joint, we could get tested the next morning and be like, oh shit. So it was a full-time job. I used to have to keep a drink from GNC on me that would flush my system, and I would pay my trainers at the beginning of the season like, you know, tell me if I'm gonna be up. So the drug program got hip to that,

so they wouldn't give us the players, and they wouldn't give the players names, so they would just say, hey, like, hey, you know, we're coming to test your team today. So I had to prepare every time the drug people came to our team, I had to prepare like I was being tested. So it was a whole process of downing this drink that made you wanna throw up

and then drinking a bunch of water and then you'd pee a bunch of times. And then for like six hours, you had a window of clean pee. And that got me through my entire career. We talked about Kobe, did the last interview before he passed on your show. Who are your favorite podcast guests? Top three. Cove, Snoop, who else had me rolling?

Probably Jamie Foxx. He just had a new Netflix special shout out. What had happened was, you know, obviously Kobe for several different reasons and the fact that it was supposed to be a two part show. The first part we shot with them was like 40 minutes, so we were supposed to actually do a part two. And you know obviously his untimely death, we weren't able to do that. So that's something I was holding near and dear to my heart. Snoop was the one that kicked the door open. So although I told Brian Daley at the beginning, we have to be able to smoke.

He said it was cool, but Showtime, you know, Showtime Legal said get out of here. Like you guys aren't smoking. So we couldn't smoke on our show for the longest time until Snoop came and smoked like eight blunts on our show and we're like, fuck it, if Snoop's doing it, we're gonna do it. And that was the first time we smoked on camera and we haven't looked back since. So Snoop kind of opened the door, shout out, he opened the door for us to be able to smoke on the show and then we caught Jamie Foxx during the pandemic and I think that's where all the smoke really took off. We started airing two shows a week when everyone was looking for content and we got Jamie on a remote interview, but he just had us laughing the entire time.

So those are three that come to mind quickly. But if I think back to more, I just feel around in in this space I'm so lucky because I'm a fan of almost all the people on the show and I just get an in-depth look at their lives more than I would. And that's what I was so proud about the Kobe interview is because I knew the world got to know fans knew Black Mamba. They didn't really get to know Kobe, the dad, the businessman, the locker room teammate. And I always, you know, we pride ourselves

on humanizing our guests and being able to show our fans the side that they don't always get to see. So, you know, I'm so lucky that I get to sit here and interview people and get paid good money for it and just get to learn more about interesting people. That's one of the benefits of my show as well. I mean, I get to meet amazing people. Absolutely. You get to know you better

and be able to get to know Mike Tyson and Kiki Tyson and some of these other people. Mark Cuban has been incredible. I'm gonna flip it on you. What would have been your favorite interviews? Because I know I saw your list is pretty cool too. Yeah, I mean you asked me, right? When I met you for the first time

and I said it's like trying to pick your favorite among your kids, right? And when I say to people is I have different people from all walks of life. So I've got the corporate guys, the big CEO of Goldman Sachs. I got the private equity guys, David Rubenstein. I've got venture capitalists like Tim Draper. I have athletes on my show, actors.

I have the world's greatest bowler. I had the number one and number two, number one male and female pickleball players on my show. And it's I don't have a favorite and what's interesting to me Matt is some of what I think are my worst shows that I really didn't like at all when I asked people oh that was my favorite show that you did and I'm not gonna mention one in particular but I was just knocking my head against the wall.

Like this is the most boring show in the world. This guy has no personality in the world and I'm just trying to get him to laugh and I've got people who love that show. And I thought I did a terrible job and I thought he was terrible. So it's never know. But I have a wish list too, I'm sure you have one too.

Who are some of the people you hope to get? Like I wanna get, Alonque would be my number one. The Rock would be way up there. Yeah. I mean, Tom Brady is up there obviously as well. Yeah. That's fine. Steph Curry is on the list as well.

My list is very long. That's fine. I mean, I... Steph Curry is on the list as well. You know, it's... My list is very long. I have people in the medical field, Huberman in the field, Jordan Peterson, Tony Robbins is top five for me. I like him. And I will nail him this year. I've got a list. I'm very motivated.

The hit list, the 2025 hit list. I've got the 2025 hit list. We're getting near the end of the show. I want to talk about some of the things that make us successful. One of the things that's contributed most to my success is something called Extreme Preparation, where someone may prepare for a podcast one hour.

I'm 14 on average for my show. How has Extreme Preparation contributed to your success? And can you give some examples? I mean I thought you did great today. I mean you were probably one of the most prepared people that I've sat down with. For you to know from birth to current Matt Barnes like that and I'm sure you're like this with all your guests. It's very impressive and it's appreciated because again you've asked me questions that I haven't been asked before so I always appreciate Readiness and people that really put the work in preparation. I think eliminates fear, you know when you put the work in

I feel like you could take on anything and I think that the discipline I learned as an athlete has Transitioned to so many different walks of life, but particularly life after basketball. I Think and that was one thing Coby and I talked about too, was just like, you know, we take the discipline to get up at five in the morning and jump on the track or get in the rate room, and now we get up at five and we're jumping on emails and making sure we, you know,

we reach back out to people and, you know, stay on top of that. So I've been able to take the discipline that took me to the top of one professional space and applied it to this next space, which is media. And for me to be the bad guy, the NBA or the role player, the journeyman, to be one of the most trusted and top voices in sports media, I don't take that for granted, but I owe that to preparation and dedication

and really just trying to apply myself and challenge myself. I want to be one of the best in this space. I don't have to be the best, but I just want to be one of the best and I think more important is being one of the trusted, to be able to have a wide range of voices from Kobe to Kamala Harris to Rock is on my hit list too. I just think the range of people we had speaks to how well we've done and how we've continued to elevate and grow our show in a very saturated market. So preparation is key to life, to being a father, to business, to being an athlete. I mean, the last thing you want to do is to be underprepared and that shows

when you are underprepared, but it also shows when you're prepared. So it's not something I take lightly. It's something I'm saying, I'm not going to lie, I don't give you 14 hours, but I definitely will put the work in to help create the rundowns and change what I don't like and add stuff that I do like and really make sure that I'm prepared for each and every interview we sit down and do. One of the things that I think makes us successful

and really a lot of people don't talk about is one of the challenges that you have gone through in your life, you had an incident with Tarek Fisher. That was very unpleasant. It's highly publicized, so I'm going to talk about it. I'm not the first one where he was dating your ex-wife and you didn't know about it. He was a former teammate.

He drove 90 minutes to go see him. Kanye West made that an urban legend, but go ahead. I'll tell you. OK, then you drive 90 minutes. you're gonna crack me on that. And you go, there's a barbecue in the backyard, you go beat the shit out of them, basically. And here you are years later, where he is a second father to your kid and a coach. So my question to you is, how important is letting bygones be bygones and having forgiveness in our success and our mental health. Huge, huge growth. I mean you know hate is a heavy

burden to carry for anybody. It's an added weight, it's an added stress, it's not needed. But forgiveness, I don't hate anybody. You know I think we're all here for a small amount of time and then trying to figure it out the best way we can. You know the Derrick situation was unfortunate. You know I only drove 15 minutes. Kanye rapped that I drove 90 minutes or 90 miles and turned it into an urban legend. But you know, what I'm very proud to say is, you know,

that incident happened at the beginning of one season and by the following summer, it was water under the bridge, you know what I mean? And I think the key to that was, you know, I'm always my most important. I didn't like the fact that he dated my ex-wife, but I was willing to forget that. But the fact that he was around my kids and didn't tell me was what really bothered me. So you know, when that first happened, I'm always, you know, I'm talking, how's everything?

And everything's good. And you know, and it got to a point where, you know, the boys are just like, how do you feel about Derek? He's like, Dad, we love Derek. He's great. And I was just like, amazing. And that's all I needed to hear to go and squash the beef. Because it wasn't about how him and my ex-wife are now married and it was never about that.

It was about my kids and them being the priority and the pride and joy. They were my only two kids at the time. So the fact that my boys loved them, it gave me, to me, a path to go mend the bridge. And I was the first one to kind of reach out to him. And we both set our pieces and shook hands. And we're going on 10 years now since that happened. And it's still talked about like it happened yesterday. But he is my kid's stepfather.

He's their head high school basketball coach. I coached them in the summer. And he's one of their dads. And I was so real when we squashed the beef. was still playing I'm just like bro you see my kids more than I do like you have to be that guiding light that father figure teach them discipline manners morals and it's gonna take a village to raise these boys and it's you know your job and my ex-wife's job and my job at the time I was single and now I have a fiance to kind of raise these and be productive good young men in this world and

you know that is to be honest with that's probably one of the proudest things that I think I've accomplished was to be able to turn that into a good situation because people died over shit like that for less you know what I mean so for us to be able to have the issue we had, to be able to squash it, and to him to be such an integral part of my kid's life, and him treat them so well that they love him now, and I have no issue with that.

I encourage it. I just say, especially for me, because like I said, I was the one that was ready to go at all times, you know what I mean? But for me to kinda exhale and understand the bigger picture and it was always for my kids and the kids saying that they love him

and they like him kind of gave me the okay to, okay, well, as long as he's good to my kids, I'm good with them. As parents, the only thing we care about really is the emotional, which is not often talked about as much as it should be, and physical well-being of our kids. And anybody who does anything nice for our kids is something that we appreciate

as parents. Absolutely. And then I feel like there's no nothing better than you can do as a favor to a friend of making some cool special moments, you know, for your kids. Could you remember for so long, you know, I remember the first autograph I got from a professional athlete was a Juwan Howard. I think I was 16. I went to a Kings game and he was nice enough to pick me out of the crowd. So I just think these small gestures, and I think I mentioned it earlier in this, all these people sitting around the court. I mean, they're kids.

If they're kids, I'm messing with them and letting them come rebound for me or letting them take a shot. And it's just, this is stuff that they they're gonna remember for the rest of life and you never know how small that small gesture could come full circle you know at an unexpected time. We see nepotism in the real world all the time. At our companies there's no such thing as nepotism, it's a complete meritocracy. Is Brawny really the product of nepotism after throwing down 4.1 points a game in an unremarkable single season at USC where there were five players at least on the team better than he

is? If he is, I'm okay with it because we live in a world filled with it. And if anyone deserves to have that kind of carpet rolled out for their kids, it's LeBron. What he's been able to pour into this game the last 20 years to be a star who over exceeded the hype to be a high school sensation and still, again, knock on wood, I hope there is no slip up. How do you with the face of a league for so long and there's no bad dirt on him? He's always done things above board, the right way, he's looked out for his friends, he's

done everything, given this game everything, he's leading the score, top five in the C way, he's looked out for his friends, he's done everything, given this game everything, he's the leading scorer, top five in the CIS, he's just been so great to this game. I love the fact that he has given it, but what I will say is he's given his son this opportunity, but I think his son knows that daddy's not gonna be around for too much longer, you know what I mean? So he's gonna have to put that work in,

and I think he will to be able to be a night in night out guy. I think people are looking at it wrong if you think Brownie is going to be the next coming LeBron. He's not. I think Brownie can be a very solid and have a good long career being a solid role player. He's got a high basketball IQ. He shoots the ball.

He plays defense. He plays hard. He can find a space in this league, but he's going to have to work his butt off. But if it is nepotism, I love it because we've always seen it at all different levels. We see owners handing the teams down to their kids all the time and other opportunities in business that happen, but you never had the chance to see it in the NBA. And we got a chance to see it in the NBA. As a father, I love it.

I started playing pickup basketball game maybe two summers ago and I started having my twins play with grown men because I wanted them to get prepared for high school and I remember there was one day just this past summer where we were on the court and the twins were with me we were kicking everybody's ass and I just imagined like this is so dope and I'm playing in a small pickup gym in Chatsworth I couldn't imagine doing this on the biggest level and it just really made my admiration grow for what Braum was able to do And have a chance to play with his son

So tell us about the documentary about Tupac that you co-produced and tell us about The poem the rose that grew from concrete and why that made you so emotional Man Tupac is just one of those I wish I got him on my hand here is one is one of my favorite people huge Tupac fan and just The ups and downs the ups and downs, the trials and tribulations he had been through, you know, with the way he was raised and what he stood for. I feel like the world would be different if he was still here. I think he was that powerful. I think he was a leader of men and women. He was before his time.

And he made great music. I think Tupac made a, he had a song for every human emotion we have. I mean, he can have you ready to shoot somebody, ready to fight someone, but he also has you, you know, caring for single mothers and your mom and again, everything in between that. So he was just so, his range was crazy. Not to mention a great actor. I think he would have been a star in Hollywood had he had more time. So I just think he was a well-rounded black man

that I looked up to and a lot of people looked up to. And again, obviously I think caught up in this LA street gang life, which is absolutely no joke. If you're not in it, stay out of it. it if you're in it try to get out of it It's it's it you know it's taking too many people But I think he got caught up in the in the LA Street life in the LA Street politics And and you know he was taken from us too soon, so Great man, I wish he was still here got a chance to work with his

or his Estate and a couple projects that I've done and made friends with the people, Tom Walley and the whole crew that runs that, shout out to them. They're great and yeah, I'll just always be a fan of Tupac. Talk to us about the poem, The Rose That Grew. Yeah, I mean, it's just, you never think that a rose can grow through concrete.

I think it's just it's, you know, you never think that, you know, a rose can grow through concrete and I think it's just a metaphor for kids that grow, you know, to be able to flourish through a lot of bullshit. And I was someone who was able to flourish through violence, drugs, abuse, poverty and make it. And I think that's a, you know, a symbol of, you know, roses are supposed to grow in dirt and be watered and then have the right amount of Sun and you know for a rose to grow through concrete you know it means you were you know you were meant to be here and you know again Tupac had you know sayings and poems

and songs for every emotion. You're a great dad we've talked about our families before we've had several. We've talked about our families before. We've had several conversations, lots of texts about our kids. You've called your family the black Brady Bunch. You've got athletes in your family. And what's interesting, you've got two twins who wanna play pro basketball, and you've got another son who wants to play football

and wants to buy you a bunch of Lamborghinis if he makes it. Yes, asked him. So how good are your kids and and are they going to make it? And what's your advice to parents who push their kids and really shouldn't be doing it? I wasn't one who pushed my kids at all. I think today that everything is so sport-specific, and you're in one lane, and you have to make it.

And if you don't train in that sport, you get behind. I was someone, as you said, I played all four sports growing up. And I think every sport contributed to the one I was blessed to be able to play professionally. So I never pushed my kids. You know, the twins, they were around the game a lot. So they had a good high IQ.

They could shoot the ball, but they didn't want to, they just turned 16 about two weeks ago, three weeks ago. They didn't start working out until they're almost 13 years old because that's not, they didn't want to. And I wasn't going to, you better go go do like and I started coaching them when they were about eight years old and I'd have parents tell me, oh yeah, my kid works out six days a week. I'm like, that's more than I worked out as a professional.

Like you're making this you're making it a job too early. I think a lot of times parents are trying to vicariously live through their kids and sports and I just think it's it's nasty. This whole American sports system is crazy. It's year-round now, it's too many games, kids don't learn enough. And I think that's why I said earlier, like you see this European influx

and these European players coming over to have a success because we live in a country where a kid will play six basketball games, three on Saturday, three on Sunday. Overseas, these kids will practice five days a week and play one game on the weekend. So these kids really understand the game coming over here. Our kids are very talented and skilled,

but they lack IQ and an understanding of the game. So I just feel like, you know, the system is crazy to get to your point. Will my kids make it? I hope so, if that's what they wanna do. Regardless, I'm gonna be supportive, but it takes a lot of hard work. And now that they are, they, you know, they have the dedication and the want to do, regardless, I'm going to be supportive. But it takes a lot of hard work. And now that they are, you know, they have the dedication and the drive to want to do

it, I'm putting them in a position, you know, not only do I work with them, but I find them, you know, the best trainers around to, you know, help hopefully fulfill their dreams. And it's dope because although my dad was there, he wasn't there. Like, I never played catch with my dad or shot hoops with my dad when I was little so that shit didn't exist for me. So every opportunity I get now I'm with them. I'll take them to train. I'll watch them train. I'll train them. You know the little Ashton, he just turned six. You know if he wants to go out in you know in the side yard and shoot some hoops I'll do it. You know my stepkids all play sports so I just want to really want to

be a present father. I think you you know, fatherhood has been the greatest thing to ever happen to me and I learned a lot of things not to do, you know, from my childhood and I just tried to apply and be the best father I possibly can to be present, you know. Money is great but time is more important and, you know, again, not only teaching my kids how to be solid athletes but be solid citizens and good people. There's no better investment I think that we can make in ourselves than in our kids if you have kids and someone told this to me before I had kids and they said you'll really understand the meaning of life once you have kids and for all the people out

there who are listening and watching the show who don't have kids, I'm telling you there's no truer statement than anyone has ever said to me in my life. I think not only life but true love. You know, obviously you can love your spouse and then, but when you see your child being born and start to see them grow, like I've never experienced that type of love. Like I'm obviously in love with my fiancee and we're going to get married. I love her to death. She puts up with my crazy ass, but to have a child, like I feel like you never know true

love until you have a child. It's the best. Amazing. All right we're at the end of our show now. I always finish my show with a game I call fill in the blank to excellence. Are you ready to play? Yes. The biggest lesson I've learned in my life is... Believe in myself. My number one personal goal is... Continue to be a great father. My number one professional goal is... To be the best production multimedia agency in the game. My financial goal is... To be able to have my kids and grandkids comfortable when I leave.

My biggest regret is... Not signing a prenup in my first marriage. Ha ha ha ha. Oh, I love that one. My biggest fear is? I don't have a biggest fear, to be honest with you. I think that God has prepared me for whatever is thawing my way and I gotta handle it

the best of my abilities. The proudest moment of my career is? Proudest moment of my life is becoming a father. The craziest thing that happened in my career is? Man, a girl was in my closet when I got to Phoenix. In a hotel room? In a hotel room. She got in?

She got in my room, she was in the closet. Was she naked? No, but she was attractive and I had to kick her out initially but I ended up messing with her a couple months later. I don't think I've ever told that story. The stalker becomes the dater. Yeah. All right.

That's a... You have to put a disclaimer out there to all the women watching this, so probably not a good idea. Man, oh yeah, that's bad business. The funniest thing that's happened in my career is... Oh, we're in Miami and I wasn't playing a lot and I got in at the end of the game and it was a blowout and I was pissed I was even in there. And I went to close out on someone kind of half-assed and they shot fake and the three

point line had jumped up and tripped me and I fell into the stands. I was pissed, I was embarrassed, my teammates were making fun of me. But now I look back and it was funny. The best advice I've ever received is... Man, if you don't believe in yourself, who's gonna believe in you? Ten years from now I'm going to be doing... Ten years from now I'm going to be coaching my kids and making great content. Twenty years from now I'm going to be doing...

Twenty years from now I'm gonna be on a big lake house drinking lemonade, smoking joints and watching my grandkids run around. If you could pick one trait that contributes to somebody's success, what would it be? Discipline. If you could pick one trait that contributed to your success, what would it be? Belief. The one thing I've dreamed about doing for a long time but haven't is? Just continuing to win financially.

I want to continue just to make a bunch of money. The best player currently in the NBA is... Jokic. The best player of all time is... I'm gonna leave it up to you guys. I throw LeBron, Michael Jordan, Kobe, however they land is up to you. If you could go back and give your 21-year-old self one piece of advice, what would it be? You can't take care of everybody.

If you could meet one person in the world, who would it be? To be honest with you, I want to have a conversation with President Trump. My next question was going to be, if you were President Trump today, what's the first thing you would do when you got into office? In racism. I don't even know if that's even possible. That's what I try to do. The one question you wish I'd ask you but didn't is? I think you did a great job today, man. You're prepared. You asked me everything. Are there any questions that you want to ask me on my own show? That's a new thing

I'm doing on the show here. I want to learn how to make as much money as you, so you don't have to talk about it now, but I need a mentor, man. Let me get under your wing and learn from you. I appreciate that. I love mentoring. I love coaching. You're an amazing guy.

Appreciate that. I'm excited to play pickleball together. Yeah, man, we got to do that. We got to do that. I'm definitely excited. I mean, it's been a pleasure, man, for us to kind of meet through a mutual friend and us to kind of hit it off the way we did without knowing each other at all before.

It's something I really value and definitely looking forward to learning some more from you. Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting the families together too. Yeah, let's do it. Appreciate you, man. Appreciate it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Love doubt.