In Search Of Excellence - Matt Brannigan: Can You Really Break the Patterns Holding You Back? | E195

Starting point is 00:00:00 One of the most powerful things was after Hoffman going to your parents saying, I freak. Hard call to make. I was 44 years old. I had myriaditis. The ICU nearly died. And I had a friend who died the following week. Two months later, I'm just right back at it.

Starting point is 00:00:17 What we look for as success is, are you decreasing the intensity, the frequency, and the duration of those patterns? It's not about freedom from them entirely. How long does the glow? last. My guest today is Matt Branigan, the CEO of the Hoffman Institute, a nonprofit that for more than 50 years has helped over 100,000 people stop suffering in silence, heal the wounds they've carried for a lifetime, and finally find peace with themselves. And Matt knows it from the inside. He went through the Hoffman process himself when he was 20 years old, two weeks before he deployed to an active combat zone in Iraq. At the outset, I want to say this episode is

Starting point is 00:01:10 explicitly different from every other episode I've done since I started my podcast show, years ago. Normally, I'm in search of excellence. I walk through my guest's entire life story, their family, their education, their career, their successes, their challenges, and the lessons they've learned, all of which are designed to motivate and inspire you to make big changes in your business and personal lives, to achieve your dreams, to make positive changes, to grow your business, to advance your career, to get up off your ass and do something you've been thinking about doing for many years and to give you the courage to actually do it. This episode is about none of those things. This episode is about something we all

Starting point is 00:01:45 all carry and almost all neglect our mental health. We ignore it, we push it down, we work harder, achieve more and tell ourselves we're fine until the pain comes too acute or too constant to ignore any longer. This episode is about an institution that over the last 50 years has helped over 150,000 people heal and live better, healthier lives. It's about a method. It's about transformation. It's about something that changes people not on the surface, but from the inside out. And it's here to tell you that there's a way to feel better about yourself, to forgive yourself for your past mistakes, and to stop carrying whatever burdens were never meant to carry.

Starting point is 00:02:20 And now I want to make this personal. For more than five years, I'd heard about the Hoffman process from several people in L.A. and New York, and even from a 30-year-old woman randomly sitting next to me at a wedding in Tuscany last summer who'd had cancer and was in remission. Every single one of them called their experience at Hoffman life-changing. Six months ago, after years of thinking about it and being terrified to go, I finally went.

Starting point is 00:02:41 At that time, I was a complete, mess. I was in the middle of a painful divorce. I had several businesses that weren't going well, and I needed help and guidance to get through one of the hardest periods of my life. But it wasn't just my divorce or businesses. I went to confront things I've been caring since I was a child. My parents divorced when I was two and a half years old. The bullying I'd suffered my entire childhood for a starter that at times left me barely able to speak. The 10 years that I lived in a deeply unhappy, massively dysfunctional household with an asshole stepfather and three stepbrothers who made life very difficult and at times a living head.

Starting point is 00:03:13 When I went to Hoffman, I wasn't sleeping. I was depressed and I was carrying all of it alone. I'm sharing all of this with you for one reason. My goal with this episode is simple. If you are struggling, if you are carrying pain you've never put down, if you've been telling everyone around you that you're fine when you're not. If you feel like shit for a long period of time, I want you to know that help exists and that seeking it is one of the strongest and best things you'll ever do. One important thing before we begin. If you're listening to this and you're in a real crisis right now, please don't wait until the end of this episode. Call or text 988, the suicide and crisis lifeline. It's free, it's confidential, and someone is there 24-7.

Starting point is 00:03:49 We put more resources in the show notes. So, without further ado, Matt, thanks for being here. Welcome to In Search of Excellence. One of the most powerful things also for most people. I mean, we, no matter how great our parents are, we all have negative feelings toward our parents. I mean, there's some, some I know the greatest parents in the role. Somewhere in that comment, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. That's what my mom always said. It's definitely true. have resentments against our parents. There's things about our parents we don't like. You go through the Hoffman pre-checklists and you have all these patterns, you pick your top patterns you want to work on. And again, you're, you know, you receive them from one of your parents in the case, both your parents.

Starting point is 00:04:28 And one of the most powerful things was after Hoffman going to your parents and saying, I forget. Hard call to make. Bruttle. You know, they're like, what? You know, like, forgive me for what? Yeah. Yeah. But it's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we invite people, for those that don't understand that, like, we invite people after the process to explore that with their parents to offer forgiveness.

Starting point is 00:04:58 And many people do. Some people don't. It's not going to make or break. We're in a group text. Like, there was like 40 of us in a WhatsApp group. Hey, you know, hey, you just do it. Yeah. You know, he talked to your mom.

Starting point is 00:05:09 And the range is everywhere. It's like, okay. Like, thank you for that. Thank you, you know, for sharing that. One of the parents, you know, negative and you're jealous again and so one said, stop being that way. You taught me this. You know, never say it again. And, you know, the parents said, holy shit.

Starting point is 00:05:25 Like, what? Like, you got hit by a truck. It said, you know, I really have some work to do on myself. You know, some parents are like, oh, you know, you're saying that all your problems are because of me. I mean, like the range is everywhere. But at least you've checked the list. Like, like you've released the pain. Release the pain.

Starting point is 00:05:40 And I actually know many parents who, from their child coming back and sharing, hey, I worked on this. And a lot of the times it's not like right to that state of forgiveness. It's like, oh, dad, I learned that I was holding on some real resentment. And I got into way. And I just want to tell you what I learned. Are you open to that? It creates this dialogue.

Starting point is 00:05:59 And actually, many parents have come to do the process after their children. And they've kind of stated, like, seeing my kid come to me after having done this work and, you know, revealing from their heart about the experience and extending whether it be compassion, forgiveness, or even gratitude to me to what made me want to come here. And I think that's a beautiful thing. Like we've now, you know, and I've been here teaching the process and involved in the organization for 20 years. And it's like I've now seen like generations of families for great-grandparent to grandparent to child, you know, like all the way down. And I think it can create beautiful healing across generations for family.

Starting point is 00:06:39 I hope you're enjoying this video so far. But before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach a nice level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google Lift and Seagate. And I also co-founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey. And at this stage of my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did. In my own journey, I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others. I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs or excited to take

Starting point is 00:07:17 action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions. And if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video. Yeah, I mean, again, the conversation with my parents terrified and have it. It has helped, I'd say, immensely. And with my mom in particular, so, you know, there's things I need to change and work on. And she has, you know, for the better of herself and our relationship as well. Can I just laugh about it with my own mom? So I went up and had the conversations. I went and visited my parents.

Starting point is 00:07:52 They lived about five, six hours away. And a couple weeks after I had done the process, I came down to see them. And, you know, I tried to have this conversation with my mom. And I, you know, I said something. I don't know if I said, I forgive you. But, you know, it's like, I really recognize, you know, all that you gave me in my childhood. And I was kind of getting to the forgiveness part. And she said, oh, honey, that's great. Can I make you a sandwich? I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach a nice level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google Lift and Seagate, and I also co-founded a company

Starting point is 00:08:32 that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey, and at this stage of my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did. In my own journey, I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others. I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me.

Starting point is 00:09:01 All you need to do is answer a few simple questions, and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video. Yeah, well, I've heard that. I've heard, like in the WhatsApp group, I mean, I heard everything. What I actually said to my parents is, I forgive you and I love you. Yeah. And I just kind of like, got to come around and say, a lot of people don't say, I love you your parents.

Starting point is 00:09:26 A lot of parents don't say, I love you. I mean, there are people in the class who said, my parents never told me, I loved you. Like, that's painful. It doesn't make you feel safe as a kid. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. Heart heartbreaking. So let's talk about, you go seven days, you get your phone back. Let's talk about integration.

Starting point is 00:09:44 And what that is, how seemingly. easy it is and how incredibly difficult it is. Well, and it's very, again, very unique to each individual. So one of the things is, you know, our courses run from Saturday morning to Friday afternoon. So it ends on Friday afternoon. You get your phone somewhere during that kind of lunchtime saying goodbye to your classmates. You get your phone. And then we encourage people to take about the next two days primarily to themselves. We encourage, you know, find a space, maybe some nature, something quiet, try and kind of ease back into life. And I think that's the first part of the integration. And that actually occurred because of the suggestion of graduates many years ago who said,

Starting point is 00:10:23 hey, it can be a little abrupt of a re-entry. So what do you think about suggesting some space? So it's like it's the easing into life. And I really value that. We give some encouragement on assignments for that weekend, nothing too rigorous, but ways of checking in with your quadrinity, a few visualizations to listen to some kind of journaling or writing to do as a way to kind of keep the momentum going, but mostly we're suggesting to people take some time, get some rest. You're probably more tired than you knew. You just worked really hard across these seven days. And then following that, like there's a lot that the Institute offers to support integration. So there's, you already have a check-in scheduled with your teacher. So there's kind of a post-process call with your teacher

Starting point is 00:11:09 to help aid you in your integration. There's graduate groups in different locations. You're There's weekly several times a week. We have web classes that people can, you know, log on and participate in. And I would say right now, our biggest endeavor is really expanding that kind of alumni connection to get more offerings and like a clearer path of integration. Because in some ways, it's like there's many options to choose from and that can be overwhelming for people. So we're hearing from our graduates, our alumni, that they want more direction. And so we're trying to have more direction. And in fact, in just a few months, we're going to be launching what I think is going to be a really spectacular kind of graduate portal and program to help people stay connected. And I'll say this, like Bob Hoffman developed this at a time where what most personal development was, like kind of programmatic personal development, it was they were often offered in these kind of three level. Like you do the first level and then we upsell you to the second level and then to the third level. you know, Bob and the people he was collaborating with wanted to do it different. You know, his idea was like, you're going to put our best foot forward. You come, you do this process and then go live your life. Like, don't create dependence or reliance upon an organization to deliver your growth. And so everything that we offer now is ancillary to the process. Like we haven't held something back and you're not going to hear from us. Like, you know, you did the process, but wait for the process too. You know, it's like we have some courses. We have some programs. We have some things for people to choose into. We have, you know, things to support couples that have done the process together. But when you do the process, that's our gold standard.

Starting point is 00:12:47 That's what we're known for. That's what we're putting our focus in. And everything else is just there to support you if you choose into it on your path after the process. Everyone told me, take two days, don't go home. I knew I was going into this exaggeration, but that's how I thought about it, kind of a war zone. And I just want to get back to my kids. I mean, I miss them. I'm very hands.

Starting point is 00:13:08 I really never been away from them. maybe once for a week. I was hoping to go back to peace and stay to San Francisco Airport because I was going to give it one night and went back. It was not good. And it was a massive mistake.

Starting point is 00:13:21 So for everyone out there who's going to do the process after this podcast, definitely take the days. Yeah. Yeah. I think often people need to replenish. And one of the things I hear,

Starting point is 00:13:32 like, and I think this is... Replenish and reflect. And reflect, yeah. But yeah, a lot of times it's like, you know, if you're going home to see the kids, well, your partner was just there with the kids alone, you know, potentially for those seven days. So a lot of the times it's like, thank goodness you're back after your retreat. Here's the kids. And, you know, it's not like commonly felt like the retreat was something that left me with a lot of energy. Yeah. Immediately to come back home and then, you know, just step right into doing everything. So I appreciate your suggestion. People, we really do encourage that space after the process. How long does the glow last? It's like, I was 44 years old. I had myocarditis. The ICU nearly died. Then I had a friend who died the following week, got out of the hospital, went to her funeral. I'm like, holy shit, this could be me. You have a chance to kind of rethink your life. I'm not going to let all this bullshit go. I'm not going to let it affect me. Two months later, I'm just right back at it. It's like you forget kind of where you were. With the Hoffman process, for me, at least, as I said, I made a massive mistake going home because a lot of the patterns that I was thought I was going to work on and be like, all right, I got this. I'm going to be way better manifested itself just because

Starting point is 00:14:45 my soon-to-be ex-wife was there. She wasn't supposed to be there. I didn't want her there. I just wanted to hang with my kids and have time. And then as I reflected on it afterward, I said, how much did Hoffman really affect? Was there a declining effect ratio, if that's the right word, you know, throughout time? The answer is there was. But our group, I have a great group of eight people. Danny Kim, I have an amazing coach. He's the best. And my group is the best. You know, it's interesting. there's eight people. And I don't know if we ever would meet on the street, whether we would have lunch with one another, just like we're all so different from all walks of life. And it's now like the second that I had a millisecond, how long as with any of them, I would just do it in a heartbeat.

Starting point is 00:15:25 So we do meet regularly, and it does remind me. And I do meet with my coach. You can have your coach when you're finished with the process. But for most people, what is it? I think there's some research behind this as well. Yeah, not necessarily on the glow. But, you know, there was a, you C. Davis research study that followed a group of people a year after the process. And at that time, it was pretty, it's over 20 years old now, but it was pretty groundbreaking research because they tracked both kind of improvement on things that you would say as positive affect, like compassion, emotional intelligence, and they tracked whether there was decrease in negative effect. So anxiety, depression, things like that. And so it did show increase in the positive, decrease in the negative,

Starting point is 00:16:05 you know, and creating a chasm between the two. I think that's kind of the experience. that we see consistently, like that still bears out. If that study were to be completed today or done over a longer longitudinal kind of study, I think we'd see the same results. Razz, Ingrossi, who was the long-time CEO of the Institute, Chairman of Hoffman International, he used to say when talking about it, he's like, it wasn't always a straight line. You know, there's often crags in it as in any kind of line or chart. There's, you know, dips and, you know, goes back up. And what he always says, as a joke is like those crags are important because they'll catch you if you start to slide too far down. And I love that idea. It's like it's not life has too many variables to think that I did this process. I'm feeling bright. And now I will consistently feel that way and build upon it over time. Right. Things as simple as going home and the people that you didn't expect to be there are there and there's energy there. Like that can bring about patterns. What we look for as success is are you decreasing the intensity? the frequency and the duration of those patterns. And it's hard for us to personally quantify that for ourselves.

Starting point is 00:17:16 But I imagine if we could, if it tracked on your watch or my watch, to say, are you in that pattern as long as you were before you did the process? I bet time and time again, you'd see that the shelf life of those patterns is decreasing or the half-life is decreasing and that you're moving through them more quickly. It's not about freedom from them entirely. I wish that were the case. But I think, you know, our wait list would be much longer if we could. find that. It is very much about, like, are you moving through these things and returning to your spirit or your best self more regularly? I will also offer, like, the kind of double-edged sword, if you will, is that we increase awareness so much that sometimes people are like, they come home so aware that they go, oh, I have more patterns than ever. And I don't think that's actually ever true. I can't verify that. But I think it's often that the awareness is so heightened that people can

Starting point is 00:18:08 get at times overwhelmed by that. So a lot of my work with people after the process is about kind of level setting their new awareness and saying, okay, you have this new awareness. How do you want to use it? You know, how do you want to be in the face of now you see the patterns? You're not just kind of drifting along with the patterns creating a wake of chaos behind you that you're not aware of. Now you're aware of it. You have a responsibility to yourself doing something about that. There is a folder you get with all of the days and all your work in it. I don't know anyone who goes back and look at the folder. But what I did is you identify your 10 worst. I don't know that's right words. Patterns that you don't like about myself. And I have a 4x6 lusite frame in there. And I put it

Starting point is 00:18:49 right in there. It's nicely tied. It's one through 10. It's on my desk at work. It's on my desk at home. And it's just a great, great reminder things that I need to work on because out of sight, out of mind sometimes you get in your daily life. But let's talk about the qualifications of people at Hoffman. They are not therapists. So how can somebody who's not a therapist, change your emotional, mental well-being in such a way that nearly everybody who's been through the program calls it life-changing. And I've never heard of anybody calling this therapist really, I mean, saying it in the same level of enthusiasm and recommending to someone in Tuscany, sitting next to me at some wedding, you got to go to my therapist.

Starting point is 00:19:31 It does never happen. My wife would disagree. She really loves her therapist. I love my therapist too, but I'm not going to her on. It's a great question, and it is something we get a lot. So some of our teachers are therapists, but what we're doing is not therapy. Like, we're leading people through a methodology. And so we have people from different walks of life that are doing it. A lot of our teachers were coaches or facilitators beforehand. So they've, you know, we look for people that have a balance being able to lead in front of our group and also sit one-on-one and connect deeply with people. So therapists are trained for the one-on-one, but they're not often trained for

Starting point is 00:20:07 the group. Other people, that are out there doing kind of motivational work or energy work and leading programs may be really phenomenal in front of a room, but they're not necessarily able to drop in and check in and support somebody one-on-one. So we've found that some therapists make great teachers, many coaches make great teachers, some facilitators make great teachers. We have people that used to be an advocacy work, some of them lawyers that are leaders of the process. And we train them on the methodology. It takes about 18 months from selection to becoming a certified Hoffman teacher. It's not 40-hour weeks doing that, but it's consistent training over a prolonged period of time

Starting point is 00:20:46 before we let somebody be a teacher in front of the room or alone with clientele. So we really hold the safety of that in such a meaningful way. And I would say, like, if you really think about it, like therapy is a fairly recent advent, right? Like people have been relying upon others to support them in their growth and healing throughout time. And we only had regulated therapy in the last, what, 150 years. And so like whether it's Bob Hoffman, your neighborhood Taylor and all around good guy who's willing to sit down and listen to you and talk with you and come to your kitchen table and work through the issues or whether it's your pastor or your rabbi or your best friend. Like we've all relied on people that maybe just in their

Starting point is 00:21:29 ability to open their heart to other humans have a particular way of supporting them. And so that's what we look for. I mean, I think we just have open-hearted humans who are supporting other humans opening their hearts. And then we put the structure in place to create the safety and the team that supports one another so that this environment is just rich for learning. And I would bet, given the way you're talking about your group, you sure got a lot out of Danny and probably the other teachers that were present that week. But you also got a significant amount of your and learning and healing through the relationship that you created with the other classmates there. And so, you know, that's not typical of therapy.

Starting point is 00:22:07 Therapy is often one-on-one or in a very well-structured group format. There's something rich about the retreat environment that allows us to experience growth from, you know, a full room of people rather than one therapist. The camaraderie of these 40 people is incredible. They're just from all walks of life. I set a record while I was there for the most crime. in the history of Hoffman. I couldn't speak, and I mean that sincerely. And I think at some point people were annoyed. I mean, no, not really, but I remember the first day, you know, you get up there,

Starting point is 00:22:39 you explain why you're here. It was very hard to do. Everyone's shaking their boots. And I was hyperventilating. I could hardly talk. And at the end of Hoffman, you know, you have a chance to go one on one with people. And they said, you know, your vulnerability allowed me to be vulnerable. And it changed the whole group. It's great. You know, and people really do get so raw there and you know everyone's afraid to to really let loose and and i was very happy at the end of it that so many people came up to me and told me that because we all were very vulnerable with one another you know all the bad shit we've done to tell people in a group of 40 is is a hard thing to do but everyone did feel comfortable the confidentiality is tantamount no one ever breaks that and

Starting point is 00:23:26 you know no one ever will yeah they're really you know a community forms in that And I will say, like, you talk quite a bit, and it sounds like you were really open in your sharing in the process. Like, people can go through the process. Most of the sharing we do is by invitation, right? Sharing with your teacher is one thing. Sharing with each other. Yeah. So for people that are hearing it and they're kind of daunted by the idea, it's not like a, there's not a lot of moments where you stand in front of the group and you're sharing your story. Yeah. There's little moments where you're invited to. But you could also do the process and keep your story pretty contained. For sure. For sure.

Starting point is 00:24:00 most people have the experience of once they recognize the safety in that environment, they experience the freedom to actually share more fully. And so it's, it's by invitation, not by, you know, requirement. And I think that's an important thing for people, almost to a person. People, I would say, share more than they ever thought they would in that environment. And to your point, it's held with safety. Like, and it's what, you know, that part of me that started in sociology that loves group dynamics, it's like the way that group forms there and the way that they hold each other with, like, grace and safety and, you know, commitment to that confidentiality is extraordinary to me. And I'm really, like, I get proud what that occurs without

Starting point is 00:24:41 us having to remind it and remind it and drill at home. It's like, it's that natural instinct to, oh, I feel affection for these people. I want to protect them. Like, we need so much more of that in the world. In my own experience, just talking about therapy and Hoffman, do you do them both together? The answer is almost everybody there in my group of had been to some type of therapy. A lot of people had stopped and wanted to go to Hoffman and see where they were. Some people were doing both at the same time in my own situation. I had stopped seeing my individual therapists for a while.

Starting point is 00:25:16 I didn't think it was really helping. And then I was going to couples therapy and love my therapist. She's amazing. And then saw her one-on-one for a while. But I needed a new kind of therapist. And I waited until post-Hoffman. to get the therapist. I just didn't want there to be. It was too new. I would have to go through, you know, being a new patient. I wanted to wait. And it was very, very helpful. And it was very

Starting point is 00:25:39 interesting because I was with my therapist yesterday and I had a bit of a crisis last week. I met with Danny, okay? He steers me straight every single time. Then I met with my therapist the next day. And he said, you know, so what did, he, he gave me the same advice as Danny, but just in a different way. So it just, I, I'm, see my therapist on a weekly basis. and Danny on a situational basis. We talk about the qualifications, the coaches there. There have been 150,000 people go through the program in the last 60 years. How important has extreme preparation been in the success of Hoffman? I think on our end, right, like we hold the process in a way that a phrase that was taught

Starting point is 00:26:21 to me is like impeccability creates safety. And we look for impeccability in how we deliver the process. And that requires a significant amount of kind of. a preparation. So, you know, our teachers are extraordinarily well trained by us, but we also look for people that, you know, we're not training from scratch. These are people who have already indicated and that they can work with people with deep and deep emotional states before that. And you have to be really prepared to do that. I would also say, you know, you talked about the, and I don't know if you'd call this extreme preparation, but like that pre-work, it's a rigorous preparation in order

Starting point is 00:26:56 to do a week-long program. And so it's like you have the ethos, that we have as an organization to create the container that supports that work and all the preparation and the intricacies that go into that. And then you have, you know, the people coming into the process that are really fully committing themselves to do that work. And those two things together, I think, leave us with a really weekend and week out, a really highly prepared group that's ready to get deeply into the work. There might be a little bit of some day one jitters, but, you know, the depth that we're exploring by that first evening, that first evening, that first Saturday night is, in some ways, it's incredible. And if I describe this to like therapists or other

Starting point is 00:27:36 people in the kind of mental health or healing professions and they say, wait, you're getting into what, on what day? Like how quickly? Like, they're often astounded. And yet it works and it's worked consistently for a long time. I was talking more about the extreme preparation that the coaches do. Yeah. Before we go there, I found it amazing. Yeah. If you're talking about like on a week, on an individual week basis or just to become a teacher overall, I mean, I think we hold, you know, both as really important. Tell us about the actual physical location. Everyone wants to know what the accommodations are like. Sure, sure. Well, we have a few, but the one that I think is most exciting right now is we just opened a new retreat site in San Rafael, California. So it's been around since 1939. It was actually the home of the Dominican Sisters. It's in the Dominican University area of San Rafael.

Starting point is 00:28:25 And I think we've done a wonderful job. We spent a year renovating it to capture the kind of essence of the old and the new. It has some beautiful nature around it. It's really primed for this work. And the accommodations for the students, you know, they're simple. Like you don't spend much time in your room. So what people might not know is our days are long. They're, you know, good 12 to 14 hour days.

Starting point is 00:28:47 We don't have a lot of homework during the week. So it's when you're not doing the work of the process, we're encouraging you to get a good night's sleep. But it's, you know, single bedrooms. Many of them have shared bathrooms. So you have to go down the hall to use the bathroom. But this new site for the first time for us is a site that is like it is essentially new, new equipment, new furniture, you know, low maintenance so we can focus on the process. But in any location that you do the process, whether in our California site that we own or the sites that we partner with, it's this nice balance of one having a great classroom. so that, you know, setting that is conducive to doing the work, we want some nature around us,

Starting point is 00:29:26 whether it's expansive or contained, that just ability to get outside, touch the grass, you know, hug a tree, like really be able to kind of experience the sounds of the birds and the joys of nature. And we want people to have a good rest and hearty meals. And so all of our sites provide that. This recent site that we're about a month and a half into operation has been getting, you know, rave reviews from the participants. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of talk about where we're staying and what the combinations are like.

Starting point is 00:29:58 And obviously, we're not talking about the four seasons here. And so there are a lot of people there who are well to do. And, you know, going and sharing a room, the combinations where I went, I'm on a scale of one to a hundred, I call them maybe like a 35. But I liked it. And, like, brought me back to back in the day where I was either a camp or had no money, it's humbling. The whole week is humbling.

Starting point is 00:30:19 The room was perfectly fine. The bed was comfortable. I did share a bathroom with two people, so there were three guys in the bathroom, and that was, you know, a new thing. But I actually liked it. And I also love the food. The food out of 100 is like a 98. I mean, everyone loved the food. So I don't remember the chef's name, but, you know, hats off to that guy.

Starting point is 00:30:38 You did it in California. I did it in California. Yeah. So our previous site, the one that you, I believe, went to, yeah, that was more of kind of mobile trailers that were the dormitories and the lodging. that was our primary thing. You know, this new site, I think, is, is upgraded from that, but it's still the same essence of it's simple. You know, a room is a bed and a desk and somewhere to hang in store your clothing. And it's like a distraction-free environment, which I think is what people appreciate. And even some of the, like, the most well-to-do or the people that would,

Starting point is 00:31:11 prior to the process are calling in and asking about the thread count of our sheets and, you know, whether our, what kind of materials our pillows are made of, and we do get that quite a bit. You know, once they get into the environment and they're engaged in the activity, they recognize those things become kind of less important. And sometimes, again, that's like when we go back to like B-Doo have, it's like they're so focused on what they have or what that is that they're actually missing the essence of what they need to be doing to work on themselves. And so we like, you know, an environment that is supportive of the work, not necessarily supportive of kind of people's patterns. It's so interesting because we talked about no phone, no email, no computer,

Starting point is 00:31:51 no TV. I mean, I'm scrolling at night, Instagram, Instagram University I call sometimes. I know how to cut a watermelon in a different way. And I got all these now AI things that people are teaching me. But it's really, you know, sitting there at night in your room is different. You know, holy cow, it's so quiet. I have to think. I have to think about my life when I'm learning, my kids, my future, what I've learned here. And again, that was very cathartic. That was a huge part of the program for me. And like you said, some days you start at 7 in the morning.

Starting point is 00:32:20 You're going to breakfast and then 10 o'clock at night. And you are exhausted. Mentally, like, oh, God, I need to hit the bed. People go to bed. You know, as soon as they hit the room. You know, no one's like hanging out. Well, some people actually hang out. A little bit. But yeah, but we're encouraging people to focus on their

Starting point is 00:32:36 sleep outside of the work of the classroom. And we, I think we do provide a comfortable bed and pillow. And, and And we, you know, we give people what they need. But, yeah, it's not about, you know, I think we sometimes get described in media that doesn't talk to us as like a luxury retreat. I think we are not that. We don't see ourselves as a luxury retreat.

Starting point is 00:32:56 There's a price point that maybe feels luxurious to some people. But that's generally about the low student to teacher ratio. Like, you know, that's putting the money into the program rather than into the secondary elements that can be important. but I think we hold them as less important than can we deliver an extraordinary program to you, good food and good nurturance, but, you know, kind of separate up some of the frills that might be there elsewhere. There are a few rules. I want to talk about one in particular. No smoking, no drugs. A lot of people there do drugs, recreational drugs, or some people who have been in rehab more than a few. And then there's a no-sex rule.

Starting point is 00:33:34 There, you know, the ratio was pretty much 50 to 50, and it's you're so vulnerable. And it's easy. I mean, they talk about, about it during the class, I think on day three or four. I know some of you may feel the attraction and the need to be with somebody emotionally and physically. I think that's a very interesting rule. I do know of multiple people who after the session are over is time. Yeah. So a couple things. One is people are actually allowed to smoke. We just have designated smoking areas. So we don't, we don't ask people to not do that. And when it comes to drugs, like if people have prescribed medications that they use, we're not asking them. I just want to be clear on that way. Not asking them to like drop your anti-depressant or anti-anxiety. But we're asking people to use their prescribed meds as

Starting point is 00:34:15 necessary, but not do recreational drugs that are mind-altering, like, so that you can be really present to the experience. Your point about the sex, I think, is really about the kind of container of safety that we're always looking for. And so that, you know, you're right, we do remind it partway through the week. You know, people sign all of these things when they do their pre-work. They also are reinforced on day one. And then on day four, we give a reminder on that. And it's not necessarily And the interesting part, and hopefully this resonates with some people, it's not necessarily because about the attraction to another, what we actually have, you know, kind of found is that when people are feeling more alive in themselves, they're actually recognizing their own attractiveness.

Starting point is 00:34:54 And if you've not really learned how to healthfully display that to others, you can get a little kind of convoluted in your boundaries. And I think people really appreciate that part of it, like the ability for relationships to occur with depth and vulnerable. without sexualization of them is really important. And it's for a lot of adults, it's missing, actually. It's a missing component to them having greater sense of community and connection. And I think these are things that are for the week, right? We're not saying, you know, we're not giving people rules for their life after the week. We're giving some guidelines and agreements that support the kind of container that allows people to do their best, most safe work in a vulnerable

Starting point is 00:35:37 setting. At the end of the process, we basically write, I wish for me. And in my case, I wrote, I wish a life of happiness, peace, and love. And when we talk about in my own self-reflection, what did I get out of Hoffman? Because I think it's important to share, it's be calmer, be more thoughtful, be more present, although, man, I struggle with that one, with a lot of work and kids in a full life, be less confrontational, be a better listener, and make better. better decisions. And for me, that was huge. All those things were huge. So peace, happiness and love. They give you a photo. You take a picture of yourself and then you write on it. And so that's sitting on my desk at home. It's a reminder when I'm at my computer every day and just where I was and before I got there

Starting point is 00:36:24 and where I am today. So I'm going to read a letter to myself in a minute, which is difficult to write and say aloud. But before I do that, is there anything that I didn't touch upon regarding Hoffman or anything else that you want to share with everyone today? Well, I really appreciate the thought that went into kind of just the questions and the conversation that you had. So I really appreciate the work that you've done and the way that you've shared about your experience. And I just, first want to just acknowledge my gratitude for that and for this invitation. Thank you. You know, what I would say to anybody listening to this is that give us a call if this resonates with you. And if you're interested in

Starting point is 00:37:03 finding out more about it. Like I said, our folks in the enrollment department at our office are, you know, they're there to just give people the information that they need for the process. And it's not that we're going to share what we do, right? We are. We tell you, and even this kind of podcast, we talked a lot about the core elements. There's some things that we might hold back a little because we like the surprise or the mystery, but they're all in safety and good fun for those things. But people can talk about what they've done at the process. They just can't talk about what you've done. We do hold that confidentiality to be a tenant of our work. But if anybody, you know, people can contact me. They can call the office and ask for Matt. And I'm happy to answer people's questions. I knew 30 people that did the process before I came. And I had snooped around all of their houses. And I pretty well pieced together what I was getting into. And yet it came as a huge, still as a huge surprise when I did the process. Because the depth of engagement, it just can't be easily explained in a conversation on a podcast, read in a book, it is very much an experiential offering. And so for folks that want to come experience it, we want to welcome you to do this work with us

Starting point is 00:38:12 or help you find the path that does work for you. We as an organization are just about seeing good people do good work in the world so that we can have, as Bob Hoffman would say, a creation of peace on earth one person at a time. There are local groups that people get together. If you're from Los Angeles, you know, there's a few groups. They'll send you something if you want to participate. They meet, it seems like every two or three months. I get emails, like I said. Our group was very tight.

Starting point is 00:38:39 Our group of eight, we made on Zoom. There was a party in celebration, I guess, in L.A. maybe four months ago, my former intern, that was actually her house. That was her first boss. She has a spectacular house. And there must have been 350 people there. That's where you and I had met. And, man, I saw 30 to 40 people.

Starting point is 00:38:58 there that I didn't know had gone through the Hoffman program. I mean, it's not a secret. People who have been through it like to talk about it. Like me, I want to share. I want to help people. But it's like, wow, you know, I was blown away by how many people I knew, even good friends who have been a Hoffman that I didn't know. It's, it's out there, right? It's like, there's a lot of people that are, that have done it or are adjacent to it. You know, I get on a, you know, flights and I'll pull out something with our logo on it. And somebody next to me will be like, did you do the Hoffman process? And I'll, I'll say, yeah, I sometimes find stuff left around that is our Hoffman Institute stuff. So we're just really excited as an organization that it's continuing to reach and support more people.

Starting point is 00:39:39 And we're doing the work to reasonably scale so that we can reach more people so that the wait list isn't nine months, but that we do so without ever diminishing the quality and the safety of the program that we provide. I'm about to read my letter to myself, which is very difficult to write. but before we do, we're at the end of our show, where I'm going to conclude it with the letter. But are there any questions you want to ask me? Would you do it again? I would do it again.

Starting point is 00:40:08 I would. You know, so helpful to me. I'm so grateful to Danny, my group, the 40 people that were there, yeah, made a huge difference in my life. And I recommend it to everybody, which is why we're here. You can see that. You know, mental health. We all go to the doctor when we break an arm,

Starting point is 00:40:27 when we tear a muscle, God forbid you get sick with cancer, but yet so many people are living with mental cancer. And I often say our mental health is more important than our physical health because our physical health, it's acute, right? It happens at a specific time, mental health. I mean, people are just suffering for long periods of time. So super happy we're here. I'm happy we did this.

Starting point is 00:40:49 I'm happy for you to give your time. And I hope it will change lives out there. And I hope all the people suffering will either get help through Hoffman or get health somewhere else. thing I didn't mention, and I want to talk about this, how much does it cost and are there scholarships available for people who don't have money to come? Sure. Yeah. So right now we've just instituted a tiered pricing. So kind of the low rate is in the mid-6,000s, you know, and that's for people that can pay that. We have actually indicated like a supporter rate so people can actually pay more upfront to support our scholarship fund. But we issue about $600,000 in

Starting point is 00:41:26 scholarships annually. You know, we really want to make the process accessible and affordable and not just something that is, you know, only to those with those assets. And we have more and more people coming forward to put together special grants or scholarship funds for different populations, including right now we have a wonderful program that is supporting indigenous Americans and being able to do the process. We've had other ones for veterans like myself that I'm really appreciative of for educators, you know, K through 12 educators, which is an often kind of underpaid but extremely important resource. So we want to find a way to help people do the process. And so, you know, my encouragement for anyone who's listening that wants to do it that thinks, you know, money is the

Starting point is 00:42:09 barrier is call us, contact us, let us see what we can do to help make it work for you. Because, you know, the money is there to make sure that we can operate a retreat site and pay our teachers and staff and all the people who put care into it. We like to spend every dollar wisely, but we never want it to be the thing that gets in the way of people getting the support that they need. You're a nonprofit organization. Nonprofit 501C3, and we're really grateful to the generous donors who enable us to operate and continue to support people, you know, even throughout the pandemic when things, you know, retreat business loses 85% of its income when the world shuts down.

Starting point is 00:42:49 But, you know, our graduates who love the, program just as you're describing yourself, they step forward and we were able to continue to give support to people. And it's through the generosity of that community that we're able to do that. That's awesome. Matt, again, thank you for being here. Thanks for your time. Thanks for doing the great work and making Hoffman available to all the people who both can afford it and can't afford it. Keep doing it. It's one of the best things I've ever done in every person that I've known been to the program said the exact same thing. So thank you. I appreciate your time. Likewise. Okay. You're listening to Part two.

Starting point is 00:43:21 of my incredible interview with Matt Branigan, the CEO of the Hoffman Institute, a nonprofit that for nearly the last 60 years has helped over 150,000 people heal and live better, healthier lives. I went through the Hoffman process six months ago. It changed my life. I wasn't doing well mentally. Every single person I know who's gone through the program said it was life-changing for them, just like it was like for me. This episode is devoted to our mental health and feeling better about ourselves. If you haven't listened to Part 1 yet, be sure to check that one out first. Now, without Further ado, here's part two of my awesome interview with Matt.

In Search Of Excellence - Matt Brannigan: Can You Really Break the Patterns Holding You Back? | E195

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