In Search Of Excellence - Mike Tyson: “I Am Going To Tear His Soul Apart” | E57

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

My guest today is Mike Tyson, a former heavyweight boxing champion of the world and one of the greatest boxers of all time!  At the age of 20, he became the youngest boxer ever to win a heavyweight title.  He was the first heavyweight boxer to simultaneously hold WBA, WBC, and IDF titles and a member of the international boxing Hall of Fame.Mike has appeared in many movies and TV shows.  He is the actor and creator of a one-man Broadway show Undisputed Truth, and the author of the best-selling book of the same name.Mike is also a very successful entrepreneur and a founder of two cannabis companies, including Tyson 2.0.  He is an incredible person and a dedicated philanthropist through his Mike Tyson’s Care foundation, and the support of other charities including The Make a Wish Foundation and The Special Olympics.(00:00) Mike’s childhoodHis dad was a pimp, his mom an alcoholic and a sex industry workerHe was bullied in his childhood ("you can’t run from them, you must confront them")Started robbing people to buy food for his pigeonsA traumatic event with the birds that changed himMike's first fight and from being bullied, to being the bullyWent pick-pocketing and stealing with his friendsStarted with crime at 11, by the age of 13, he was arrested more than 37 timesThe stealing mentality - nobody else mattersHis mom encouraged him to steal (his goal was to be a professional criminal)(18:13) Juvenile facilities and Mike’s first steps in boxingWatched the movie “The Greatest”, the story of Mohammed AliTransferred to Elwood CottageMike was always handcuffed in a dangerous environment Met Bobby Stewart who inspired him to finish school and started training himAt 13, Bobby wanted to take him to the next level - introduced him to Cus D'Amato (21:14) Mike’s first mentor - Cus D'AmatoRelationship with Cus D’Amato (Cus taught him to never give up)Cus became a father figure for himThe time Mike first experienced loveCus saw in him the future world championWorking out for 6 hours a day while going to schoolWanted to get kicked out of school, but Cus didn’t allow thatThere is no progress without struggle (study about rats)(29:32) The beginning of his fighting careerAt 18, a fight with Hector Mercedes - beat him in one roundWasn't afraid of losing, but being a bad loserMike's desire to be the world champion consumed him completelyBecame the youngest boxing champion everHis mother’s reaction - never got affirmed by her(34:57) From millions of dollars to bankruptcyStarted making millions of dollars (became highest paid athlete in the world)Went bankrupt being reckless, didn’t know how to manage money as a street kidBeing rich and going broke multiple timesFame and money won’t make you happyBecome your own alarm systemThe pain is the same at the top and the bottom of the worldSponsors:Sandee | Bliss: BeachesWant to Connect? Reach out to us online!Website | Instagram | LinkedIn

Well, the first thing I'm thinking is, this is my moment, this is my time. They're going to have to carry me out. I'm going to get that belt, and I'm going to get it at any cost. I'm going to, ooh, I'm going to visit them, I'm going to tear their soul apart. That's what goes on in my mind. My guest today is Mike Tyson. Mike is the former heavyweight boxing champion of the world, one of the greatest boxers of all time, and one of the most recognized sports personalities in the world. That's just what I wanted to do. I wanted to be the best in the world. I knew I was going to fight. I wanted to look the best.

Most of my career fighting was just based on my ego. I was thinking nobody was going to pick on me again. I think it was those cold, weak moments when people abused me. I said, it's never going to happen again. When he was 20 years old, four months and 22 days old, he became the youngest boxer ever to win a heavyweight title. And he was the first heavyweight boxer to simultaneously hold the WBA, WBC and IBF titles. I had won the Junior Olympics twice, right? And so it was in a local paper. And take the paper

home, newspaper, and I showed it to my mother. So she said, remember Joe Louis and Max Muller, there's always somebody better. And when she said that, I said, listen, man, the guy that you're talking about right now who's always better than somebody, that's me. I'm always better than that guy. He finished his professional career with a 50-6 record with a knockout-to-win percentage of 88% and is a member of the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

In addition to his incredible boxing career, Mike has appeared in dozens of movies and TV shows and is the creator and actor of the one-man hit Broadway show, The Undisputed Truth, and is the author of a best-selling book of the same name. Mike is also a successful entrepreneur. He's the founder of two cannabis companies, including Tyson 2.0, and he is a dedicated philanthropist through his Mike Tyson Cares Foundation and his support of other charities, including the Make-A-Wish Foundation and the Special Olympics. Mike, it's an incredible pleasure to have you on my show. Welcome to In Search of Excellence.

Pleasure to be here, my friend. I always start my podcast with family because our family helps shape our personality, our values, and the preparation for our future. You had a crazy life. Yeah, it could be crazy, yeah. Your dad was a pimp. Yes. And your mother was a drug addict and helped with him in the sex industry.

And when you were one year old, your parents used alcohol and drugs sometimes to put you to sleep. Absolutely. Marijuana. Marijuana at one years old. So take us through the first five years of your life. I think a lot of us remember what we were like in kindergarten. We're going to get into your later childhood right after that. But through five years old, did you realize what

kind of life you were living? I had a really, um, a middle-class life when I was five years old, you know, my, um, my life comes across, like I started in the pits of Brownsville, but that, maybe I let people on the bleed that, but that's really not, that's not what happened. I remember us living in a Brownstone and we had, um, his name was Arthur. He was our landlord. He lived there, Jewish, older man. And I had a really decent life until I guess my mother, she made a bad business decision with a man

and lost all of her money and stuff. And then I think that's when we moved to Brownsville and then life became so much challenging then. It was a high crime neighborhood. Big time, high crime, high drugs, high everything. It's everything. It's just a city in Brooklyn even now, but you just don't want to be there if you don't know anyone. So when you were younger, you were bullied. Big time. Yes. Big time. You had a lisp. Yes. You had bad acne. Yes. You have a high-pitched voice.

And you were chubby. Yeah. So tell us. And I wore glasses. And you wore glasses. Yeah. So an unattractive kid, and that's the kind of kid that people bully. So how did being bullied influence your future?

What were you thinking at the time? A lot of bullies, and this happened to me when I was bullied, I said, I don't want to be bullied anymore, and I'm going to make it in life. It helped motivate me to be successful in life. I never thought that. I used to think that I'm going to try to avoid these guys all my life. I never knew that they don't go anywhere. You can't escape these guys unless you confront them. That's what I learned at a young age.

You can't run from them. You got to confront them. How old were you when at a young age. You can't run from them. You got to confront them. How old were you when you were bullied for the first time? As early as I can be, as conscious as I'm in intermingling with people and going

and seeing people at schools, yeah. Probably eight years old when I started getting involved with school. They always picked on me in school, kicked the shit out of me. It's hard to believe that someone kicked the shit out of you. No, listen, when I see these mean, bad, savage guys in the streets, I understand. I get it. I get something happened.

And returning to those people. And at that point, would you come home crying to your mom? All the time. what would your mom tell you don't worry it's gonna stop you don't have to fight him back now you can do this my mother used to non-violence she didn't believe in fighting and stuff she believed in taking care make sure the kids avoid reality life but it wasn't like that. You had to confront your demons. Right. 13, 20% of kids in high school between the ages of 13 and 18 are bullied. It's a national pandemic. By the time I'm 13, I'm never bullied again.

Everybody's, all the tough guys were my buddies. They were my friends. And by the time I was 13, I knew all the gangstas. Everybody knew me. We all crawled together. That's just how the life was. Right. It was like a bizarro world.

Like all the bad was really good and all the good was really bad. The respectable people were bad and the criminal guys were good. And that's how it was in that world. If you weren't involved with crime, you weren't our friend. You're the enemy. And that's how it was. At some point, you weren't our friend. You're the enemy. And that's how it was. At some point, you're 10 years old. Yeah.

And you love pigeons. You were an unhappy kid. And pigeon was the first thing that you loved in life. 100%. Listen, I've gotten involved with pigeons from being bullied. I'm walking, because, you know, in my school, you have lunch and you have breakfast. So I go and I eat breakfast and then I leave the school, walk

around the school, kill time, until lunchtime comes, which is probably 11 to 12 o'clock. So I go there, I eat lunch and then I wait until school is over and then I can go back home. One time I had eaten lunch and after that process of eating lunch, I was walking around the school as I normally does when I saw three guys.

And then they started to sell me and say, hey, you have any money? I said, no. And they said, if I find any money, I'm going to kick your, you know what, and let them check me. And they said, yo, you want to fly with us? And I had no idea what flying meant. And so he said i said yeah because i was scared and so i climbed this fence they said give me those milk crates

i'm throwing a milk crate i don't know why he wants these milk crates this tough kind of street guy and um we're taking these um milk crates in this abandoned building i'm getting really nervous i don't know these guys and they're trying to get me in this abandoned building. I'm getting really nervous. I don't know these guys, and they're trying to get me in this abandoned building. They said, get up there. And I was scared. I went up this stairs, second, third floor, and I climbed to the roof. And they went up first,

and then I started passing the crate. Then I went up there, and I saw this little couple box, a little fence, net fence. I saw birds. I was like, wow, these guys like birds? I thought these guys, well, they were horrible, but I thought these guys was like, wow, these guys like birds? I thought these guys, well, they were horrible, but I thought these guys like birds.

These kind of guys like birds? And I was impressed with those kind of guys because nobody messed with those guys. Their brothers were tough, and they always got respect in the street. And so I was there. I don't know, they go to the store for me, give me some tea, give me some food,

give me some cake, milk, this. The birds were, I didn't know at the time, but the birds they had was really out of condition. So they fly for like 10 minutes. Then they land on somebody. Go over there, shoot them, scare the birds off. I'm going to fly the birds. If they come to move, just scare them off.

And so that's the stuff I did for them. And so after they kept me captured and the school was over, they let me go home. And I definitely, you know, that whole day, I was just thinking about these birds and these guys. And so the next day come, I go eat breakfast and I go to the coop that they had me at. And as soon as I come to the coop,

they see me from the roof and they start throwing bricks at me. Trump's still our bird mother, effing this and that. And I said, no, I just came by to know if any of you guys need me to do anything, go to the store for you or something. And from that day on I was stuck with birds I think you had a neighbor and a bully

and he did something really bad to the bird no no once I started getting involved this is a year now a year has passed now I am robbing people for the money to buy birds and bird feed and I had my birds hidden in a abandoned building

that happened, my family happened to live in. And I showed somebody the birds I bought with the monies that I had stolen. And he went back and told those guys I had a bunch of birds and they came, he set me up to get robbed by the birds. And so those guys came in the room and tried to snatch my birds. And my mother came came in the room and tried to stash my birds.

And my mother came up, hey, Austin, what y'all doing? And they ran. But one guy ran. Before he ran, he took a bird and put it under his shirt and took off, ran between my mother. And I was chasing him. I don't know why I was chasing him. I don't know why. He starts, hey, please give me my bird.

And he stopped and said, oh, the words he said, I can't tell you what he said to me. But he said, you want this bird? You're fat. Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma. And he took the bird. He hit me with the bird's body. He hit me with the head. And one of the guys that used to bully me, too, he always bullied me, too.

But he said, you better fight. He was mad, even though that was his friend that did that. He felt a little bit of being assaulted by me whipping the bird. They love birds, too. He took the bird, hit me with the body, hit me with the head, called me fat and stupid and all that stuff. And I fought him. There's blood on your shirt?

On my face. And your face. Just splattered all over the place. Yeah. When he took the head, the blood was shooting him, you know what I mean? And he hit me with the bird. It's traumatic even to see it. And then it pisses you off.

That's the first time I ever saw that. And then suddenly I snatched the bird head off. It was my first time. And so my friend told me to fight him. And it was sloppy. I started fighting him. And I kind of dropped him. And then he fell on the floor.

Not necessarily in the face, but it looked like I hit him. And the guys that came there to rob my birthday all started applauding, clapping, laughing. The guy was bigger than you? Yeah. He was like 14, 13. And you were 10? Probably 10, 11, yeah. And what was the feeling when you hit a guy for the first time?

I couldn't wait to go home and tell people that I had a fight. But they knew. They'd seen the fight. People started coming around. And everybody started talking, wow, man, you did this. You did that. You kicked such and such. And then I used to start watching my friend box, playing around.

And that's when I wanted to be that kind of tough guy, know how to fight kind of guy in the streets, nobody mess with me. I could wear my jewelry, my fancy clothes, no one would take them from me. Did the bullying stop after that first fight? Because everyone knew you could. Absolutely.

But then the bullying started with me. I started bullying people. Because that was the norm. You were bullied, and then you became a bully. That's what happened to bullied people. Hurt people hurt people. And so at that point, you started getting in more fights and beating people up? Tons of fights, man people up more fights tons of fights

man I must have had three fights a day you would start them huh you would start the fight well if I'm on the bus and I'm trying to

pickpocket you and you see and I don't know you have a friend with you on the bus or a family member and the family member sees me

but you don't and the family member just comes up and hits you boom he's in your pocket and he explains to his partner

he's in your pocket and so I'm to his partner, he's in your pocket. And so I'm fighting on the bus. I get my butt kicked on the bus because they jumped me. And they kicked my, I'm only like 12, 13, but I'm a big kid. I look like this at 13. And I'm fighting both of them. And so I get off the bus, but I snatch his chain before I get off the bus, stuff like that.

And we were just very notorious. So we would get on a bus or something, a train, and the conductor would say at a bus driver, hey, everyone, some young people got on the bus and they're jostled, they're pickpockets, watch your pockets. When we get on the bus, we're so,

wow, he said that, so we get off the bus. And it was just a struggle every day. Sometimes I go out with three friends, four friends, early in the morning start robbing and stealing. Some of them might get killed. We all don't come home together. That's just our life.

We're really poor kids in New York City. What was the first time you committed a crime? You said you were pickpocketing people. And what made you do it? Because that was the norm for everyone I was hanging around. These kids, they live in these low-income houses, but they dress. You'd think these guys are from prep school.

They got the glasses. They got the collars. They got the diamond watches. It was up on all the fashion designs of the day. They wore clothes, Jordache and all that stuff. They were just into the dressing scene and i wanted to be like that because one day i went hanging out with them because i'm flying the birds i'm on the roof of the bird and you get you get birds you know you can be cleaning the bird coop

you get tar on you because you're trying to tar the cool free no rain a snow would get involved and you look like a mess you look you know shit on your face and and they say come on we're going to the center of the jam and i never i was too young i didn't understand you had to wash first go home and wash and do a lot of stuff didn't come out i used to we stayed dirty and funky all day because everybody liked them when we was on the roof and we're looking dirty people come by all hug me hey we're going out tonight i didn't know you had to go home change get fly and that's i went to the center i went to the center where they were jamming and they saw me and they all started laughing. And I started crying. I didn't know, but I had to take a shower and dress and get the feathers

out my hair. And I had no idea about that kind of lifestyle hygiene. And after that, that never happened again. I always went shopping, bought the best clothes. I was just so, what was that? I was so self-conscious about my appearance. So how old were you the first time you robbed somebody? And then did the crimes keep? Probably 11. 11? I got arrested a lot, but I got away a lot too.

A lot of people say, hey, the kid let him go. Right. So by the time you were 13 years old, you were arrested 37 times. Probably more. I just put 37 out there and then I was looking probably more. So I would get arrested a lot, but they would let me go, the cops, too. Why?

Huh? Why would they let you go? I was a kid, you know what I mean? First, they thought I was a tough guy because I was big, and then they saw my age, I'm saying 12 or something, and they would let me go. It's not like it is now. Then you can get 10 years old. The cops will lock you up, might kill you.

And it's just a whole different story. And sometimes they bring me to my mother. My mother would just assault me right in front of them. And they would just laugh. The cops would just laugh until my mother kicked my butt. I mean, I was wondering about your mom. What would she say when you came home with the jewelry that she knows you didn't earn or pay for? Yeah, she wanted some too.

And I would come with their money. I would give money because I would steal money from my friends too in the house. I used to be a really, I don't know, incorrigible young kid. I had no respect for anybody. I was stealing anybody's money. Nobody's pain meant anything to me because that's what I've learned on the streets. Everybody else means nothing

if it doesn't have anything to do with your survival. So most parents, when they come home, they know their kid's a crime. Say we cut off welfare, we have no way of getting any kind of money. Right. You know what I mean? If you sell your body to somebody,

maybe you get too old to do that too. So you have no money, you're not on welfare because you got men in your house and everybody's watching these men coming in and out of your house. And your son, he's 12 years old, but he comes home with $5,000 or $1,500,

something like that. And you're not going to take any money when he says5,000 or $1,500, something like that. And you're not going to take any money when he says, hey, mom, look at this or something like this. And when my mother took some of the money, and I would come back later and say, hey, mom, you owe me what? $500, $200, whatever like that. She said, you owe me your life. You're not going to get nothing back.

And I understood that back then. That's just the way it is. I never understood family. I never understood anybody was just criminals. That's the world I come from. Everybody is trying to hustle. No one had a nice family that you said, one day I want to be like that or emulate.

I wish I had what they had. Yeah, but they had received everything they had from crying. So how was I going to get that? By the only means I'm known by watching the people that have what I want receive that. Does that make sense? Yes. And so that's what I wanted to do. How they get in.

They knew they were criminals, but people always loved them, hugged them. And the bigger criminal you were, the more respected you were. And that's what we wanted, too, in the neighborhood, respect. And if you weren't wearing these fancy clothes and fancy shoes and driving your moped or your motorbike or your car even, you're not going to get any respect. So what were your goals at that point? Was it to become a professional criminal and just be a kingpin?

Yeah, that's all I wanted to do was rob and steal. That was it. And did you ever think that at some point it was going to come to an end and you may spend your life in prison or you didn't care? Well, that's what my friends were doing. We were all doing it. That's what we were doing, spending all my life. I had friends just recently come out of jail, 40 years, 38 years.

They'd been locked up when they were locked up with me. When I was 12, 13 years old, they were locked up with me, but they stayed on the path of crime and I went on the path of sports and redeemed myself in that perspective. So you were sent to a juvie home when you're 13? No, no. This is when it gets interesting. I'm in the holding facility in the Bronx called Spoffit Juvenile Facility. And so one day we come to the auditorium.

The auditorium is bigger than this. So we come here and they turn the lights on. They play the movie The Greatest, the story of Muhammad Ali. So the movie was over. They turned off the light and Muhammad Ali comes in. Everybody goes berserk. I say, right off the bat, I want Ali comes in. Everybody goes berserk. I say, right off the bat, I want to be like him. In my mind, subconsciously.

So a month or so go by, I get transferred to Triumph School for Boys. And so I get transferred there, and I get in trouble. And I don't know, probably a month or two months while I'm there, I get in trouble, fights. I don't know, I don't want to say stabbing, but just fights. And so I went from that dorm, which was a nice dorm, and then I go to Blairwood, I guess. Elwood, I go to Elwood College. Elwood College is for the guys that have to be escorted all the time. They're really violent, and they may be're for murder, you know, juveniles.

And so they call it the lockup cottage, because when you leave the cottage, you always have to have your handcuffs. It wasn't like the other ones. You can go free, go walk around. We always had to have supervision and handcuffs. And so I went there, and I met this gentleman named Bobby Stewart. So I was saying, wow, I hear Bobby Stewart, the boxer.

Everybody talks about him. And then he came to my door and knocked on the door. You heard you want to see me. What do you want? How do you know who I am? And he was just a rough guy, you know? I'm like, wow, I thought he was going to be nice because I'm one of the kids. But he wasn't nice.

He wasn't nice. I said, I want to be a fighter. He said, everybody wants to be a fighter. Show me you want to be a fighter. Show some respect to people because I wasn't that kind. I was disrespectful to everyone. And I went to school. And I took my reading level from like a fourth grade reading level to like a seventh grade reading level within a couple of months or so.

And so he thought that was great. And I went on this stage from school, graduation or whatever it was. And I received this diploma and certificates and all that stuff. And he was impressed with that. And it wasn't like he was a big jumper to come from fourth to seventh in a couple months. He thought that was great. And so he started training me. And he taught me how to fight.

He kicked the crap out of me most of the times. Then you broke his nose. Yes, I did that. How long was it before he kicked the shit out of you, before you broke his nose? Well, I was quick, though. Yeah, I was quick. I learned quick. He taught me well.

And then he said, my wife don't want me to box you no more because I have to go. But I'm going to take you somewhere where these guys are going to take you to the next level. Right. And that's when I met my mentor, Customado. Right. I was 13.

Right. And he became your mentor. Yes. Like a father figure to you. He adopted me when I was 16. Right, when your mom passed away. So tell us about your relationship with him father figure to you. He adopted me when I was 16. Right, when your mom passed away. Yes. So, tell us about your relationship with him and his wife, Camille, and how- Common law wife, yeah. We're married. And what lessons they imparted on you back then that you

still carry forward today? Well, that's really interesting. When I go through my life and there's certain conduct that I'm involved with and it always reminds me, because always when it comes to standing up for myself, well, I'm the kind of guy, listen, just for me and Cuss,

I'm the kind of guy that fights better with my back against the wall, but I don't like to be my back against the wall. When my back's against the wall, I'm the kind of guy that fights better with my back against the wall. But I don't like to be my back against the wall. When my back's against the wall, I'm just insane. And that's what it's about with Cuss the Martin. It's about never giving up. We just don't give up.

That was the main lesson he taught you? No, absolutely. And it works. So you had an unusual relationship with him. He was your father, became your father. Yes. And it works. So you had an unusual relationship with him. He was your father, became your father. Yes. It was probably the first time.

I understood the concept of love. I was just going to say, was that the first person who loved you for the first time? Yes. And how good did that feel coming from the kind of home you came from to living and having a dad. That's very interesting, too, because once I felt that feeling, I wanted to do anything I could for him. He wanted me to be a heavyweight champ. I wanted to do that for him. Not for yourself.

No, that, too, but for me getting the courage and the confidence from this guy to be able to do what I did. Yeah, I wanted to do it for him. How old were you when he said, Hey, Mike, you've got some special skills? First day he met me. Just like that? Yeah. But Bobby told him already, hey, this guy's got some skills.

Yeah, but the first thing he said to me in boxing, Bobby kicked the shit out of me. Yeah, but then you broke his nose. No, that's before. That's way before. Okay. But he kicked the shit out of me because he saw something. He said, nose. No, that's before. That's way before. Okay. But he kicked the shit out of me because he saw something. And he said,

this is going to be the next heavyweight champ in the world. First day he saw me box. Just like that. He saw I was very aggressive, very, I came across very

malevolent, mean. You know, I was just, you know, he enjoyed that. He liked aggressive, violent,

hungry guys that won't give up. Real mean. Had you ever aspired to be the champion before Cuss said you could be the champion? Never! I wanted to be a criminal all my life. That's all I knew was crying. Yeah, but now you had a love for boxing.

You were good at it. But at some point, did you say, hey, I'm going to be a good boxer, make a little money? Or at some point, did you say, I want to be the best guy? The greatest fighter since the beginning of eternity to now. Listen, Cus made me believe I was God.

When you were 16? Yeah, when I was 16, I was already, what, world amateur champ, national champion. I was already an established fighter in the world. You were knocking everybody out. Yes, I had to lie about my age, of course, to fight in the real good tournaments, the real good fighters. Because you had to be 18? No, I had to be 16. 16?

No, 18, I think. No, I think 16 to be an open fighter, 16. At this point, you're not making any money. You're an amateur. No, I'm just an amateur. And how often are you in the gym every day at 16 years old? Every day. Five hours a day?

Listen, three hours, probably two hours. But then I'm working early in the morning. I'm getting up running. I'm doing my exercise. I'm shadowboxing. It's basically, you work out most of the day. Most of the day consists of me working out. Were you in school at all?

Yes, I was. This is really cool, too, that you brought that up. And I was never interested in what they had to teach me in school. I only thought about being the champ of the world all day in school. They ain't dreaming how I'm going to defend my title and do this. And I'm going to have a beautiful house. And that's what I normally thought about. I wasn't really interested in what they were teaching me in school.

So I used to always try to get kicked out of school. So one day I had a teacher that I had a physical altercation with. A physical altercation? Yes. I was saying, hey, this is great. You beat up a teacher? Kind of. I don't want to stay with it. So I was 16, but I said, well, good, I don't have to go to that school no

more. So my mental class, the amount of it, he's Italian. The school principal, Burdack, he's Italian. Next thing you know, these guys get up there and start talking this Italian stuff. This is when I know it's in trouble. When Cuss said, where your family from?

And the guy said something to Cuss. Whoa, really? I'm from... And next thing you know, I'm back in school again. I didn't want to be in school. I wanted to get kicked out of school. And so these Italian guys are talking. And I knew I wasn't going to come back to school. I had to fight with the teacher.

How could I do that? And next thing I know, I'm back in class. I'm back in the homeroom. I couldn't get kicked out. But was Gus telling you, hey, Mike, you need an education? Big time. And you're not boxing if you're not studying? Big time. But you're saying to if you're not studying? Big time.

But you're saying to Gus, hey, man, I just don't want any part of it? I say, I don't know how to do this. How do you put this number? It's just no way I'm going to do this, Gus. It's not going to work. Let's just go fight. Please, please. But he was very disappointed I didn't finish school.

He was disappointed or you're disappointed? He was disappointed. I was happy I didn't finish. I was really ecstatic. I think I went out with some friends and ate Big Macs and Dairy Queens after that. What about now? Do you regret not going and not graduating?

Well, listen, the best thing that ever happened to me is that I stopped school. I had time to put 100% into my craft for my kids to go to schools I never went to in my life and never would be able to go to. And that's pretty much what happened. My kids, listen, oh, you gotta hear this. My kids are so brilliant, but they

bust my chops a lot. You know, like we might be around having to talk and I might talk like I'm a big shot and my son might say, say that again, Dad? He's probably like, Dad, I never knew you were illiterate. You can't even say this, spell this word.

Then they start busting my chops. I say, hey, the reason why I'm not, I didn't go to school because I worked so hard for your guys. We went to school for the way they tease you like you guys tease me. But they don't understand the concept because they've always been, I don't want to say spoiled, but they've always been in that position of where they never would want anything, pretty much. Probably from being selfish, but other than it's really needing something to exist. No, they don't have to live like that.

They can do whatever they want from a living perspective. But they just have to know that um life is about struggle well any struggle there's no process you know what i mean you get no progress no progress without any without no struggle and that's what i believe because um they did they did a research study with some rats and they took these rats and they put them in this environment probably bigger than that but they have all the food they want, they have all the sex they want, they have everything they want.

Then next thing, the first thing that happens, they start breaking up in groups. And then they have the groups of the ones that just want to stay beautiful, clean themselves all day. Then they have these guys who are aggressive, they want to attack and beat them up, rape, they do bad things.

And then they have these groups over here that don't associate with the other groups. And so eventually, you know what happened? They stopped having sex. They started fighting. It becomes chaotic. And then they all die off. And so that explained to me, without any struggle, there's no progress. Because people, we have to be active.

They weren't active. They did nothing. They didn't win. They just died away. So we have to struggle. We have to be involved with the outcome, what happens in life. And we have to struggle. And that's just what life is about.

Life is not about just having a good time all of it. It's not about sunny days. It's about enjoying those sunny moments and deal with the world as it is on life-on-life terms. Let's go back to your first professional fight. Yeah, Hector Mercedes. Who was it with? Hector Mercedes.

Hector Mercedes. And how old was Hector? I don't know. He wasn't much older than me. I was 18, but he couldn't have been much older. Probably 20, 21. So take us to the exact moment where you're in the locker room. You got your shorts on.

Cuss is there. Are you afraid you're going to lose? Or do you say, I'm going to fucking destroy this guy? I'm never afraid I'm going to lose. What's worse than losing to me is looking bad. You can look good losing, but it's looking bad losing is not good. I don't want to look bad losing.

So that's what I thought about the story. I might look slobby, I might look bad. Even though I looked at him, he was just a short, fatty guy. In my mind, he was a monster. So I beat him in one round, and I had a bunch of one-round knockouts. And my first fight I went the distance with, I think, was James.

What was his name? James Tillis. Cowboy Tillis. I went 10 rounds. Cowboy. Yeah. Black guy. Cowboy.

Okay. Cowboy Tillis. Did he come out in cowboy boots as he was walking down? He had the hat, too? He had the hat. That was my first 10 rounds. And after I won 10 rounds, I knew I could go 10 rounds. And so I went on another streak of knockouts.

I won the title at 20 years old. New York City champ ever. I made around 10 defenses. I lost my title in 1990. And I started to come back. I had four fights in 1991. I got in trouble legally. And then after I got in trouble legally on my sex case,

I went to prison for three years. Right. Before we go there, I want to go back to your dream. Your dream was to become the heavyweight champion of the world. Oh, absolutely. That's what I thought of. And did the dream consume you on a daily basis? Consume me. 24 hours a day.

Turned me totally out. I'm talking about turn time. That's what I thought about with fighting. That's what I thought about with fighting matches. Go in the room, start putting matches, fights, go fight together, watch the fights. Couldn't wait for the next one until you got your shot. Listen, I had 15 fights in one year.

Of course I couldn't wait. And you had never been hurt before? Well, no, not in the boxing league. So take us to the actual locker room. I've talked to friends who play in the Super Bowl, and they've got the nerves, they're out there on the field. You're not out there on the field warming up. You're in a room, and you're, they got the nerves, they're out there on the field. You're not out there on the field warming up. You're in a room, and you're warming up in the back. But what were

you feeling the second you stepped into that ring and said, if I win this fight, this moment, whether it's 10 seconds later or going the full distance, what were you thinking? And then what was your exact reaction when you raised your hands afterward and you had won? Well, the first thing I'm thinking is that, of course, I'm really nervous. Yeah. And I say, you know, this is my moment. This is my time. You know, I'm not going to, they're going to have to carry me out.

I'm going to get that belt. That was my main objective. I'm going to get this belt, and I'm going to get it at any cost. I'm going to, ooh, I'm going to visit him. I'm going to tear his soul apart. That's what goes on in my mind. I have to think really violent stuff when I fight. I'm relaxed, but I think violently. Thinking back to your childhood.

Thinking back to those crazy moments. That had a lot to do with my childhood, my fighting career. Right. So you became the youngest champ ever. Yeah. And then you were the first person to hold all three titles at the same time. Your mom never knew you as a successful person. Talk about that.

Well, I had won the Junior Olympics twice, right? And so it was in a local paper in Cascio, the town that I am from at the moment. I take the paper home, the newspaper, and I show it to my mother. She's cooking me food. And I'm telling my mother, I'm going to be champ of the world. Watch me. No man can beat me. Wait till I get older, this and that, and all this and that.

I'll make millions of dollars. I'm going to buy you houses all over the country. And she's looking at me. And I know she's saying, what do these white people do with my son why is she talking so crazy and so grand and she said this well don't forget what happened to joe lewis because she's born in 1927 so joe lewis was the hero and i'm from detroit so we love joe lewis absolutely yeah so um she said remember joe lewis max mullin there's always somebody better and when she said that i went to a cuss because he gave me this big ego now.

Ego now. And I said, listen, mom, the guy that you're talking about right now who's always better than somebody, that's me. I'm always better than that guy. That's me. I'm the guy, dad. There's always somebody better, mom. And after that, she just looked at me and gave me the paper and just walked away. And I know she's, my mother, she was just really never been one of the guys

that used to brag and talk. I'm going to be the greatest ever because you had to give yourself affirmations. And you never got it from her. No, she taught me affirmations. My mother used to tell me how to be a kind, respectable kid. Don't go out there and fight people.

You would never believe my mother. No, I couldn't believe it. You knew my mother. She was a really nice lady. She was just surviving out there and fight people. You would never believe my mother. I couldn't believe it. If you knew my mother, she was a really nice lady. She was just surviving out there. But you regret that she didn't see you as a champ and all the tremendous success you had. Oh, 100%. 100%.

So, you talked about making millions of dollars. Absolutely. And you were going to buy her all this stuff. Yes. At one point, you were the highest paid athlete in the world. Yes. And you started making a million dollars and you're going to buy her all this stuff. At one point, you were the highest paid athlete in the world. Yes. And you started making a million dollars and you're getting purses of 10, 20, 30 million dollars.

You're setting pay-per-view records all over the world for all your fights. At some point, you'd made 400 million dollars reportedly in the ring, which inflation adjusted is 700 million dollars today. And in my world, in the corporate world, a lot of my friends talk about having a goal, right? First, you want to make a million dollars. And as you get a little older, it's now 5 million. And if you live in expensive place like LA or New York,

the 5 million isn't really, I mean, a nice house cost, more than 5 million, New York or whatever. And then there's a concept. It keeps going up. People talk about, fuck you money. And fuck you money is, I don't have to worry about money. I can do whatever I want. But you had made fuck you money, a lot of it, and then you lost it. So you went bankrupt.

How did you go? And so many people I know, by the way, who are many millionaires, centimillionaires, have gone bankrupt as well. How did that happen? And what's the lessons that you took from that? I got in that condition by being really careless and reckless. And not that the money was never going to end. I used to, I was never going to live that long.

And so I used to live the life life around me, I guess, right? I did whatever I want, when I want, with whoever I wanted, wherever I wanted to do it at. And that was just my life of access. But that's a lot of access. It's hard to spend that much money. No, people steal a little from you here. You give a little away here.

You do a little investment, a really small amount of it. And people, you can learn how to be successful right you can learn hard work diligence and all that stuff and you can become successful but there's no that's a blueprint a blueprint for success there's no blueprint for managing money you know i mean no one tells you hey you gotta manage your money especially when you never did it before. No, it's a street kid. And then, listen, I used to read about these old guys, especially the old Jewish guys at the turn of the century and stuff.

The majority of them, like Florent Ziegfeld and those guys. Yeah. And when they were trying to explain to him about investing your money and doing your money in this and calls with you, he said, I'm not giving the banks my money. I'm not putting my money in the bank. And for some reason, I said, hey, I don't blame him. Anybody can take your money in this and calls with you. He said, I'm not giving the banks my money. I'm not putting my money in the bank. And for some reason, I said, hey, I don't blame him. Anybody can take your money. You have all your money in this bank. The next thing you know, hey, the bank crashed.

And so I always think, hey, that's ridiculous. I'm going to spend my money underneath my bed pretty much. And that's just how I live my life. And it has a lot to do with my personality. I'm a really extreme person. You didn't have, there wasn't someone near you who said, who you trusted and said, hey, Mike, I'm going to manage your money and kind of rein you in and say, hey. Once he said that, he wasn't hanging around me no more.

You just said, too bad, I'm doing what I want to do. Planes, trains, jewelry. I have all that money and I'm just, I gave a lot of that stuff away. You're known to be a very generous guy. Were people taking advantage of you at the point? Absolutely. But at that moment, you become, you have the Stockholm Syndrome. You have to be.

Listen, you always had this money. You have no self-love for yourself. You feel like you're a member of the, what's that one? You're a survivor from all your traumas in life. I didn't believe I deserved everything I had. And so I never had it before. I never knew all these people. Everybody's my friend. Everybody's kissing.

I die for you. I love you, this and that. That's pretty distracting. You know, and then you say to yourself, I don't love me, how do they love me? And then you start questioning yourself, you start questioning your existence. You start questioning, if anybody loves me,

then who hates me? You know, I must be an enemy to myself if everybody's my friend, and I have an enemy to myself if anybody's my friend. And I have no enemy. The only enemy has to be me. So I started looking at myself in a different perspective. And it wasn't good. I didn't have a good self-esteem.

So I didn't feel the money meant nothing. Money meant nothing to me. But this is what I found out in life. If I did it once before, I can do it again. And I did that. And then I lost my money again. But I did it again.

And I lost my money again. But I've been rich and broke more than anybody I know. And so I'm just grateful that I have a great support system now and I'm living my life different, higher accounts. And I'm just grateful that I have a great support system now and I'm living my life different, higher in the counts. And I'm just very fortunate, very fortunate, very grateful for the way my life turned out.