In Search Of Excellence - Rodney Jerkins: Strive For Perfection And Be Beyond Prepared | E54

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to part two of my incredible conversation with music legend Rodney Jerkins, who has worked with some of the greatest and most successful artists of all time, including Michael Jackson, Rihanna, Beyonce, Katy Perry, Ariana Grande, and many more, and whose albums have sold more than 2 billion copies and whose songs have been streamed more than 50 billion times. So you had a great mentor and internship in Teddy Riley. And he said to you in one of your sessions that he wants you to meet Michael Jackson. And Michael Jackson was the guy you were listening to at a mall in Canton, Ohio that lit you on fire. And here you are,

Starting point is 00:00:47 less than 10 years later, and you've got a king in the music business telling you he wants you to meet Michael Jackson. Then you get a call to come over to Carol Bayer Sager, who was married to Bob Daly, I think at the time, the chairman of Warner Brothers, and to come on over. Michael's here and he wants to meet you. Walk us through what on earth you're thinking when someone says, I want to introduce you to Michael Jackson. And what are you thinking

Starting point is 00:01:19 when you meet him and you're pulling up to Carol's house, knowing he's there to meet you and possibly work with you? The biggest superstar in the world, perhaps ever at that point in time. Okay. So it starts like this. Teddy Riley says, I'm going to take you to meet Michael Jackson someday. He said that to myself and my father, I want to take you to be Michael Jackson someday. And I, of course, you don't, when you're of course, you don't really believe that's real, right? You don't just say, okay, this guy is saying that because I'm here and I'm working with him. And he knows I love Michael just as much as he does. But then reality kicks in.

Starting point is 00:01:59 And all I know is one day, Teddy says, everybody pack up. We have to go to New York. And it was three Quest vans outside the studio. I didn't know what was going on, to be completely honest. We never went anywhere before. And all I know is Teddy said, I want you to be in the van with me. So I was in the van with him and his driver and then his brothers and other people in other vans. And we're going to New York. And the whole time from Virginia Beach to New York, all Teddy played was Michael Jackson. I'm in the backseat and I'm starting to think, oh, wow, we're going to New York because of Michael Jackson, because I had been around Teddy so much as an

Starting point is 00:02:46 intern. And I knew that whenever he was going to work on a project, he studied the person's music right before it was time to work with them. And so he was listening really intense ears the whole way in the middle of night going to New York. When we got to New York, we checked into the hotel. I went to my room. It was like two o'clock in the morning. And next thing you know, the phone rings in the room and Teddy says, he calls me little bro, little bro, come down to the lobby. So I'm like, man, I'm tired. I want to go to sleep. Come down to the lobby. And he goes, we got to go'm tired. I want to go to sleep. Come down to the lobby and he goes, we got to go to the studio. And we go down the street to the Hit Factory. And next thing you

Starting point is 00:03:31 know, we walked into the studio and there was Michael Jackson. And Teddy introduced me to Michael Jackson and said, you're going to work with this kid someday. And Michael kind of giggled like, you know, his little soft laugh. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to work with you someday, Michael. I'm going to work with you someday. I was in awe. Like, it was just a crazy moment. And that was it. And that was it.

Starting point is 00:03:54 I went back to the hotel, and we stayed in New York for like two weeks, and Teddy was working with Michael, and I was in another room working on other projects for Teddy. And that was it. Saw Michael one time, and that was in another room working on other projects for Teddy. And that was it. Saw Michael one time and that was it. Fast forward a few years later, I'm at my parents' home, the home that I bought them. I fell asleep on my mother's couch and I had this dream that I was pulling up to a studio and it was all glass. And in the glass was this guy with the red shirt on and a Derby hat. And it was Michael Jackson.

Starting point is 00:04:39 I woke up and I told my mother and father this dream. I said, I just had this dream that Michael Jackson was in the window of this studio and I was pulling up to work with him. And it was so vivid and so real. Not much after that, not much longer, the phone rings and this lady, Carol Bear Sager, is on the phone. And she's calling me because at that time I had the biggest song out. It was Say My Name by Destiny's Child. And she says, is this Rodney Jerkins? I said, yeah. I didn't even know who she was to be completely honest. Like I heard her name, but I didn't know the song she wrote with Burt Bacharach and reach out and touch someone's hand, you know, all these great songs, classic songs. And we started talking and she says,

Starting point is 00:05:29 I want you to come to my house and work with me and Michael Jackson. And I'm like, I'm choked up. I'm like, what? I just had this dream. This can't be real, but it is real. And I said, when, when? And she goes, I don't know yet but um once I talked to Michael I'll let you know and Randall I jumped on a plane immediately I checked myself into a hotel and I just stayed in a hotel patiently waiting for her to call me and let me know when we were going to work and a few days later she called me and she goes do, do you think you can work, come out here, fly out here tomorrow? And I said, I'm already here. She said, I said, I'm already here.

Starting point is 00:06:13 And she said, OK, well, tomorrow we're going to have a session that come to my house at noon. And so she gave me her address. And as I'm going up her driveway, she has this guest house to the left, which is a studio. And through the glass, I see a red shirt, just like the dream I had four days before that. It was Michael Jackson. And I went in their house, and I met Michael again, told him that I had the same guy that met him with Teddy Riley. I started playing the piano for him, and we started creating from that day. That was in February of 1999. You have a lot of stories about Michael, and I want to focus on just a couple of them. And I want to talk about, let's start with the importance of work ethic in our career and the importance of it to our success. Can you tell us about what kind of stuff he was doing in the studio and the importance of it to our success. Can you tell us about what kind of stuff he was

Starting point is 00:07:06 doing in the studio and the outfit changes he would make and getting called his hotel room in the middle of the night to start rehearsing with him? And there was a whole team of people there at three in the morning. Yeah. I mean, you know, the whole process of working with Mike was much different from any other artists that I worked with, way different. The intensity of working with him was just to a different level. He's a perfectionist. He gets lost and exhausted in the music and the rhythms. You know, there would be, he would literally have to, I would have to order several Hanes t-shirts for every session because he would dance so intensely in the booth that he would sweat out the shirt.

Starting point is 00:08:02 Literally sweat out the shirt and I would have to have other shirts ready for him. So he would literally change into another shirt, keep recording, sweat out that shirt. That's how intense his ethic, his work ethic was. Not just him being at the hotel three o'clock in the morning for rehearsals, but him calling me at four o'clock in the morning, asking to hear what I worked on during the day. I mean, it was like nonstop, three, four o'clock in the morning, play what you worked on today. And I'm like, really, Michael? Really? Can you really hear this over the phone? He said, play it. And I'm playing it over the phone. And he would tell me to turn the hi-hat down two dBs, turn the snare up one dB. Over the phone, he's telling me this. It blew my mind. I never,

Starting point is 00:08:46 and he was always right. That was the other part about working with him. He was always right. Like, it wasn't like he was just saying it. He actually really felt like the hi-hat should come down two dBs and the snare should come up. And it was always right. He was like right on point. It was just a magical experience for me, like to work with him. Um, in those years, we worked together for a good two and a half to three years straight. And, um, it was beautiful. Like I spent a lot of time with him and flew food with him and work as several studios, got a chance to hang out at Neverland and hang out with his family. just one of the greatest moments of my life. Greatest memories I've ever made in my life was working with Michael, for sure.

Starting point is 00:09:33 You guys were extremely close. Can you share with us a Michael Jackson story that nobody else has ever heard or knows about? Yeah, I think I don't know if people have, I don't know if people have heard this story, but I, I, I saved his life once. And I was just telling my son this story the other day because, um, we were at Neverland and Michael, uh, he said he wanted to go out four willing oneeling one day. So me, my brother, one of my writers, LaShawn Daniels and Michael, we all got on four-wheelers and we started riding these four-wheelers. And Neverland, I don't know if you know, but Neverland is up in the mountains and it's miles and miles of property. And we're riding and it's starting to get late and we're way up in the

Starting point is 00:10:27 mountains. And I said to Michael, I said, I think we should turn around. Michael really didn't keep track of time. And I said, I think we should turn around. Like I could tell it's getting late and we're far away. I don't even know where we are, to be honest, this trail. And so as we went to go turn around, Michael's wheel on his four wheeler caught a rock, like a rock. And literally in one second, his four wheeler was leaning over this cliff. And I got I got off of my my four wheeler and I grabbed him. And my brother grabbed the four, his four wheeler and I grabbed him and my brother grabbed the, the four, his four wheeler. And we're all looking down and all we saw was a cliff down. And Michael said, Oh Rod, you said you saved my life. You saved my life. It's true. If, if he would have just

Starting point is 00:11:22 moved one inch, he literally would have been off that cliff. He literally would have been over that cliff. And so that was one of the craziest moments that I've ever experienced. But also, it built some type of bond between him and I, because after that, I felt like our relationship went to a completely different level. The trust factor and just the loyalty factor of our relationship went to just an incredible level after that moment. How difficult was it for you to watch Michael be accused of molesting young children? If you're comfortable sharing, what kind of conversations were you having during that period of time? It was super, um, uncomfortable. Um, cause I was around him so much and I was, and I was actually around him with his children around, around him at the time when there was, um, people that he knew other other families that had children that would go to Neverland just to watch movies,

Starting point is 00:12:31 or kids that were sick that had illnesses that he built a certain type of room in his theater just for those types of children that couldn't actually be around other kids, almost like a hospital room, but in the theater to watch their favorite movie. So I was around him and I saw the heart that he had for people and how giving he was and would have conversations. When things would pop up on the news, I would actually see him cry. And he would actually say, look at the monster they're trying to portray me as. Look who they want me to become. That's not who I am. And they know it and I know it. And I would sit back and I knew it too. And I would be like,

Starting point is 00:13:18 wow, this is crazy. Like the picture they were trying to paint to everyone. And I was there the whole time with them and learning so much from this guy and seeing the kind of person he was. Guy would literally give, literally would give the shoes and shirt off, give the shirt off his back, shoes off his feet to anybody. I mean, the most giving, probably the giving person, most giving person I've ever met. Never wanted to hurt anybody. Never wanted to hurt a child ever. Was just a kind person that really cared about humanity as a whole. And in a time where people wrote songs about dancing and people wrote songs about love, if you really look, Michael was

Starting point is 00:14:02 writing songs about humanity. He was writing songs like Man in the Mirror, Look at Yourself. He's writing songs about Heal the World. He's writing songs like Earth Song. He was writing songs like The Lost Children, writing songs called Speechless, writing songs called We Are the World. This guy was writing songs that no one else was writing. He was writing songs about humanity because I really believe he sincerely wanted the earth to be a better place. And he believed that it started with children and us having the heart of children, the innocent heart of children.

Starting point is 00:14:43 So it hurt me when he was going through all of those allegations. In fact, in 2003, Michael called myself and my father and asked where we were. And we just so happened to be in a studio in Los Angeles. And Chris Tucker, who was a good friend of mine, just happened to be there. And Michael said that he wanted prayer because he was on trial. And he drove all the way from Neverland, all the way down to Los Angeles, which was like a two hour plus drive just for, we prayed for him and we just prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed that God would give him the strength and give him peace through those whatever, you know, he was going through at that time. It was wearing him out, wearing him down. But, you know, we believe that God would give him strength. And so, yeah, I felt very uncomfortable, but I always knew in my heart of hearts that he was innocent, and I ever saw in my life. It was great at the Pine Knob Music Theater in Detroit. I don't know if you've been there or not, but it was a great show. I still

Starting point is 00:16:12 remember it. You always remember your first concert. It was my first stadium. It was an outdoor amphitheater. And I thought, gosh, look at that whole band. But that little kid's amazing. He's my age. Look at what he's doing. We've talked about Michael's work ethic. And I don't think a lot of people would know that at three in the morning, he's got his whole dance team in his hotel suite working out songs and choreographing at three in the morning. One thing that has led to some of my success is something I call extreme preparation. It's preparing more than everybody else in the room, being the most prepared person in the room, where if someone spends five hours for something, I may spend 40 hours for something.

Starting point is 00:16:55 Can you tell us some examples of extreme preparation in your career and how out-preparing everybody else and maybe give some specifics on that. And then I also want to talk about your thoughts on Beyonce and Lady Gaga. Randall, we're just alike. I am just like you in regards of extreme preparation. I've been doing it since as a teenager all the way to now. I take every project serious, the same as if, whether it's Michael Jackson or a new artist, I prepare like you would not believe. In fact, I tell my son who plays golf, I say, never get ready, be ready.

Starting point is 00:17:38 We don't have time to get ready anymore. You got to be ready. You never know when that call is going to happen. When I was working with Michael, I think that's why he liked working with me so much because I was beyond prepared for him. When I got that call officially after I met him at Carol Bears and he said, I want you to come work with me in LA. He said, what do you need? And I told him, and my wife, we talk about this to this day. I will spend days, months just on sound design alone, just on sound design, preparing for whatever, you know, whatever I think the next quarter or the next year looks like in my eyes of music. I will spend so much time and all my, all my, um, proteges notice about me. I will spend just, just getting the right sounds together for projects. Um, I believe, I believe in being overly prepared for whatever you're going to work, whatever artists you're going to work for.

Starting point is 00:18:54 Because to me, it's the way my job is to, whoever I work with, my job is to take them to their next level. If they're already at a huge level, they need to go further. If they're new artists, we need to get them out and become stars or superstars. So in order for that to happen, first, I need to study. I need to study and I need to know who it is that I'm creating for. I want to know everything about them. Not just their singing ability or their performance ability, but I want to know everything about them, their life and what's going on in their life. And then I want to be able to prepare for when that time comes and be ready to just walk in and deliver what I know is the best version of me for them. So I agree. I'm with you 200%. I'm always overly prepared for whatever it is, whatever presentation that I have to make. In fact, I'm sometimes too prepared because I played 60 tracks for Michael when I met with him.

Starting point is 00:20:04 He said, no one has ever walked in a room and played that many tracks for me. I was beyond prepared to work with Michael. I don't think there's any such thing as being too prepared. The fact that Michael Jackson, who could work with anybody he wants to and did work with whoever he wanted to, told you that you're the most prepared person and prepared more songs than anybody is a statement within a statement. And I think I do a lot of coaching and mentoring, Rodney.

Starting point is 00:20:34 I tell people all the time, be the most prepared person ever to walk in that room. Show people that you're prepared. And whether you achieve a successful outcome at that specific moment or not, the probability you do is going to be substantially higher if you do. But that person, it may not happen that exact moment,

Starting point is 00:20:54 that person is going to remember you for the rest of their life. And you're going to get another at-bat at some point, either because they're going to proactively reach out to you or you're going to come back and have another bite of that apple. And I've been coaching this and preaching this and it usually falls on deaf ears, but it has a hundred percent success rate long-term. You can easily be the most prepared

Starting point is 00:21:15 person that someone has ever met. That's right. You could have stopped at 30 songs, right? You could have stopped at 40. What does the average person do and in that situation you're going to meet with someone who's great it could be michael or rihanna or someone who's not frankly um but how many songs are people preparing when they go in for a meeting like that on average five five five to seven easily yeah five to seven easily if Yeah, five to seven easily. If they got 10, then maybe 10. Yeah, that's the average. Right. So you're seven to 10x.

Starting point is 00:21:51 And it was the investment. So how much extra time was that in terms of hours? Is that another 100 hours, 200 hours of work? For me? Yeah, when you prepared 60 songs, how long did that take you? other 100 hours, 200 hours of work? For me? For what? When you prepared 60 songs, how long did that take you? Yeah, probably a couple

Starting point is 00:22:12 hundred hours. Right. And I'm going to guess that was one of the best investments you ever made in your life, a return on investment? Of course. I mean, we're talking about Michael Jackson. You're talking about me working with Michael Jackson, So yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 00:22:31 So talk about Beyonce and her work ethic and Lady Gaga. I think you said one's a little higher than the other. And then you've also said Beyonce is one of the most beautiful people you've ever met in your life. I'm sure people would love to know more about Beyonce. to Michael Jackson that I work with. Very similar in perfection and reaching and striving for perfection. And knowing exactly what she wanted. Very in control of what her performance and everything must look like. I remember working with her on this song called Deja Vu that I did with her and Jay-Z. And I remember her talking to the directors and they were coming to the studio and her explaining her vision and to these people what kind of clothes she wanted to wear and everything. Like she just was really hands on about how it how it had to look, how the visuals had to be. I just think that, you know,

Starting point is 00:23:49 every once in a generation, an artist comes around that has a different type of passion to want to be so much greater than even the artist that they looked up to, right? It's not just about making it anymore. It's not just about getting a record deal, but it's actually achieving something so much greater. So if it's Michael Jackson saying, I looked up to James Brown, then I need to be better than James Brown, right? right if it's Beyonce saying I looked up to uh uh

Starting point is 00:24:26 Aretha Franklin I don't know whoever her person was I need to be better than that and I need to reach these goals so I saw a lot of similarities between Beyonce and Michael saw a lot a lot of similarities and it was just amazing she She was amazing. She's an amazing artist to work with. Just amazing. Because the one thing you do when you work with someone like Michael Jackson or Beyonce, you know that they would deliver the performance of the song, right? You're not just doing a song and the performance is going to fall flat. You can almost bet the house on it that the performance, if they perform it live on the Grammys or visual or whatever, it was going to be incredible. It was going to be a movie. A video wouldn't just be a normal video. It would be like a movie.

Starting point is 00:25:16 The performance would be like, whoa, mind boggling performance. You just know that. You just know that with those type of artists. What does Beyonce do different than someone else does? What's the difference? It's preparation. It goes back to what you said. I had a chance to talk to Kobe Bryant before he passed away. And Kobe Bryant told me a story about Michael Jackson. And he's told me a story about when he first came into the league as a rookie and everybody was saying he had the Michael Jordan type tendencies. He said Michael Jackson called him and he asked him, do you want to be the best? And Kobe said, yeah, I want to be the best. He goes, what time do you go to gym to practice every morning?

Starting point is 00:26:00 He said, I usually get there like 630 and I stay there till like 830. And Michael said, you should be getting there right now at 3.30 and staying till 9.30. He said, you can't become the best just practicing two hours. You need to practice. You need to be the first one to get there and the last one to leave. You need to be overly prepared for battle. And Kobe said, when he heard that from Michael, he got to the gym at three the next morning and he stayed to nine o'clock. And he said that he was prepared. Michael told him to do the one move that he wanted to master for six hours straight. Don't worry about doing a bunch of different moves. He said, I practiced the moonwalk for six hours straight until I mastered it. Whatever shot you want to shoot that you want to take, master it.

Starting point is 00:26:50 Beyonce was the same way, same exact way. Rehearsals, the first one, dare to last to leave type of attitude, the same mentality. I call it the killer instinct, right? The ability to just outwork anybody. When you're ready and you're willing to outwork anyone on your own team, on your own team, not just the competitors, but the ones on your own team, right? If you're outworking them, then you know, even with the success, she was still outworking everybody. She was still spending hours and hours and hours and hours in the studio and hours and hours and hours and hours at the rehearsal studio. I mean, she was preparing for who she is now ever since she was a little girl. Her father had her preparing as a young girl for these moments that we are now seeing now.

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Starting point is 00:29:25 last person to leave, and you're putting in the hours. Great things are going to happen to you. I think your career is so fascinating. I mean, I'm sitting back, I love music, and I thought, God, I'd love to hang out with Michael. I'd love to hang out with Beyonce and Lady Gaga. I'd love to meet them someday. I'd love to just go have a beer with them or have dinner with them. I mean, for you, it's no problem, right? Whitney Houston was coming to church with you and your family and you're hanging out with all these cool people. But I love Lady Gaga. What's Lady Gaga really like? She's awesome. Lady Gaga, I still think about Lady Gaga all the time because she gave my son, when my son was born, she came to my home and brought a teddy bear for him. So I always think about that moment.

Starting point is 00:30:11 And, you know, pre-Lady Gaga, pre-being, you know, this big artist to the world. She was just in the studio. We were writing for other people, actually. Jimmy Iovine wanted us to write for the Pussycat Dolls and different artists. So her and I were just working and it was just something special about Gaga. We'd be in there and I remember telling Jimmy, I'm like, Jimmy, I know we're working on these other artists, but Gaga is special. She just was so special. And I used to tell her all the time, I'd say, Gaga, you're going to be a superstar.

Starting point is 00:30:45 And she says, I know, I know, I know. I will have nothing less for myself. I will have nothing less for myself. She really believed that she was going to be like the biggest pop star in the world. She really believed it. She would literally say it all the time. And I got to tell you, it was just an honor and privilege to work with her because I got to know her as a person as well. And she was really a sweet, a really a sweet person, really sweet. You have amazing relationships. Your reputation in the music business is you're one of the nicest guys in the business. You're also known to be a man of faith and you're working in an industry sometimes where there's a lot of conflict. Sometimes there's a lot of violence. There's

Starting point is 00:31:30 a lot of bad words. A lot of your friends are putting some bad words in songs that I don't listen to and I know they're the number one or top top 10 top most popular songs on the planet how do you deal with that conflict and then can you between your faith and some of the bad things that happen and some of these just terrible lyrics and like you talk to you're also known as someone to give advice to people going through hard times you advise chris brown when he was dealing with assault issues with Rihanna. And you talked to Justin Bieber as well when he was going through some things as a young kid and doing some immature shit. So talk to us about both those things.

Starting point is 00:32:19 Well, one, you know, I'm proud of all my songs. I'm proud that you can type Rodney Jerkins up in Spotify or Apple Music and, you know, however many songs that pop up, you won't find too many songs with derogatory language or just, you know, songs that don't reflect who I am morality-wise. I'm proud of that, number one. I hate some of the music that's out here today and what it's saying and what it's teaching our youth. I hate it. What a passion. And I will do everything in my power

Starting point is 00:32:58 to combat it with the music that I make in the future. Number three, people are humans, right? And I was taught that you can't be forgiven unless you know how to forgive. And when I think about, you know, some of the pressure that a lot of these artists, you know, you want to be an artist, you want to make it big, but when you, as soon as you make it big, now you've got the, the, the, the spotlight is on you, right? And, and everything that you do, you're, everybody's watching everything you do. And I just think a lot of artists, Chris Brown, Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, so many artists that I work with that have went through some, some horrible, troubling times, um, where they've been hurt or they've hurt others.

Starting point is 00:33:51 But they're human. They are. speak life into people, not speak death into people, but speak life and help people to understand, you know, that, you know, we all go through things, but there is, you know, there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel with God's help. So I've always just, you know, I've made myself available in our industry. I've made myself available to be there for people. And I think I've built a reputation where managers and A&Rs, different people call me when they need their artist, when they need someone to talk to. They'll reach out to me and ask me, can I make a trip?

Starting point is 00:34:44 I went on tour with Bieber just to kind of help life coach him. And I just made myself, I flew down to Orlando when the Chris Brown thing happened and spent time with him. I just stopped what I'm doing and stopped producing for a second. Because what is producing if you're not producing good life, you know, and pouring great fertilizer on seeds, right? Because that's what they are. These artists sometimes are just young seeds that need to grow. And, you know, they haven't been there long enough to have the wisdom. So they make childish mistakes because they're still young

Starting point is 00:35:25 and they're still learning. So I'm happy to be in a position I'm in that I can be trusted to help people out. So now you're a legend in the music business. I know you may not think of yourself that way, but you are. Collectively, the records you produced have sold over a billion copies. I'm not even sure what the number is. Do you happen to know what the number is? I don't know. I just know I got like this app and they tell you how many streams you're at. And I thought it was off.

Starting point is 00:35:58 They told me I was over 25 billion streams now. And I was like, that's not, I got to be close to, I got to be close to 50. Like I didn't want to, I didn't believe it. I told him they got to go. I told him, go check the data again. And you know, I think we're well past that number. 50 billion streams of songs that you have at least, at least, at least. Okay. So 10 years old, you're Michael Jackson. now you're a legend in the music business you've worked with everyone and everyone wants to work with you what are you going to do to the kid who tracks you down and gives you there aren't cassette tapes anymore but gives you a usb stick with his music on it are you going to let that kid

Starting point is 00:36:40 stop you is your uh security guy gonna let that kid through you? Is your security guy going to let that kid through? 100%. Are you going to listen to that music? I always listen. That's the beautiful thing about how I find talent. I nurture talent. It's not always about yourself. It's about paying it forward. There's so many producers that you may not know of that are blowing up right now that are produced for Bruno Mars, that are produced for Ariana Grande,

Starting point is 00:37:06 and they all come from under my tutelage, the same way I came from under Teddy Riley's tutelage. So I always believe in paying it forward. I always listen to the content that's sent to me, that is sent my way, because you just never know where that next diamond is, right? You never know. So, and I like to stay

Starting point is 00:37:25 connected to talent and young talent. So yeah, I'm always looking and I'm always listening. So let's go back. You're on a talent show at school and your dad's not letting you listen to any rap music. And you dress up as Big Daddy Kane and you perform the rap music. And years later, the doorbell rings and who's at your front door what was that moment like yeah when I was a kid I was obsessed with Big Daddy Kane he had a song called Smooth Operator and I performed it in our in our middle school talent show with my best friend uh Buzz and um they all knew that I love Big Daddy Kane. I used to want to dress like him.

Starting point is 00:38:08 In fact, my sister Shereen, her boyfriend had this MCM outfit and it was the same outfit that Big Daddy Kane wore. And I begged him for that outfit and it was way big. I couldn't even wear it, but he gave it to me and I wore it at the talent show. And yeah, I just, I was a real big fan of Big Daddy Kane. And not too long ago, he showed up at my house and I met him for the first time. And I recited some of his rhymes from back in the day for him. And it was just, it was an amazing moment to know that, you know, someone else that I looked up to so much, you know, that I had a chance to meet him in person and share some moments with him. Why is How Deep Is Your Love your favorite

Starting point is 00:38:58 song? For those people who don't know, I'm talking about the Bee Gees song, How Deep Is Your Love, which is a tremendous song i love that i when i read that about you i was surprised to hear that given everyone you've you've worked with so my question is and i i should do a better job rephrasing that you've worked with the most famous musicians in the world and i'm curious why the bgs who i absolutely love saturday night fever one of the best soundtracks of all time, why is that song your favorite song? I just think it's just a well-put-together song

Starting point is 00:39:32 from the beginning to end. Melodically, the way it's structured, the chord progressions that I play all the time, those chords, the way the harmonies are crafted in the song. It's probably one of the most easy listening songs I've ever heard in my life. And it's a song that you can never get tired of. I've listened to the song for 30 plus years now and I'm still not tired of it. In fact, I go to it often when there's a certain mood that I'm trying to be in creatively. If I'm trying to be in some of a more of a mellow, smooth creation mood,

Starting point is 00:40:14 I'll go and listen to that song. It's just one of the greatest songs. It is. It really is for me. For me. And there's a lot of great songs. Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of great songs that I love. But for me, that's my favorite song to listen to. My favorite. I want to talk about money for a second. We talked about it at the beginning. You made a lot of money at a very young age. I mean, to have a $1.8 million deal when you're 17 years old is insane.

Starting point is 00:40:41 You're not seeing athletes. I mean, today you're seeing athletes doing that. But, I mean, you're in the 1% of 1% of 1%ers. I know you've made a lot of money throughout the years. And I also know a lot of wannabe musicians, they want to be famous. And of course, there's a flip side to being famous, right? You can't go to the grocery store anymore. So that's a whole nother thing. But a lot of people are very motivated by money. So in the music bin, and I know a lot of people are very motivated by money. So in the music bin, and I know a lot of people in the music business, you know, way more than me, but people spend a

Starting point is 00:41:10 lot of money in the music business. A lot of people are very flashy. They're drawn by the money. They're addicted to the money. They spend a lot of money. Where should money rate as a factor in terms of what we're doing in our life and our careers? I don't think you ever should ever chase money. I think, I think, I think, you know, the hip hop culture specifically has made money too much of a, an idol and has made it where, has made it where if you're not flashy, then you didn't make it. Right? I'll tell you a little quick story.

Starting point is 00:41:52 I'll never forget riding an elevator with Diddy, with Pete Diddy one time, back when he was puffy. And he was trying to sign me, and I was 18 years old. And he asked me what kind of car that I have. Now, mind you, I'm 18 years old. I have a Lexus GS300. That's a pretty good car, I would think, right? It's a nice car, right? He says to me, well, you're not doing it unless you have a Benz. He had put in my mindset that unless you have a Benz or a Bentley, then you're not even

Starting point is 00:42:18 successful. And I think it's sad that the hip hop culture makes you feel that unless you are flashy and have all these certain amount of diamonds and certain amount of expensive cars with things that you put on the cars that aren't worth a dime once, right after you take it off the lot, if you put all these extra, extra things on your car, you're losing, you're losing the value of the actual car that you took off the lot, but they don't teach you that. I think it's sad. Um, I think, you know, more importantly, more important than the, than the money is you should be building your brand. Cause if you build your brand correctly, the money will come. The money will come. You don't have to chase it. If you make great material and your music is great or whatever craft you're in, it doesn't have to be music. If whatever you do is great, the money will come. The money will chase you. Get away from me, money. Get away from me. It will literally chase you because if you're great in your craft, I really believe that if you're great at what you do, then money and other things will come.

Starting point is 00:43:38 Before we finish today, I want to go ahead and ask some more open-ended questions. I call this part of my podcast, fill in the blank to excellence. Are you ready to play? Sure. The biggest lesson I've learned in my life is? Trust God always. My number one professional goal is? To own the number one publishing company.

Starting point is 00:44:02 My number one personal goal is? To make it to heaven. My biggest regret is? Not marrying my wife when I first met her. I waited four years too late. I love that answer. The one thing I've dreamed of doing for a long time but haven't done is?

Starting point is 00:44:20 Make a movie. But you're going to make a movie, right? Yes, soon soon very soon if you could go back in time the one piece of advice I'd give my 21 year old self is don't stop believing in you if you could be one person in the world

Starting point is 00:44:37 who would it be my 8 year old son Royal he's the coolest if you could work with one artist who you have not worked with before, who would it be? Adele. The one question you wish I had asked you is? What are you currently working on? What are you currently working on?

Starting point is 00:44:58 I have the number one album out with SZA for 10 weeks straight now. Congrats. What's coming after SZA? I'm working on my own documentary. I can't say it's coming right after SZA because I'm still working on it. So I think it's going to be at least a year out. Is this going to be a documentary about your life? Yes. Yes. That's going to be awesome. Rodney, I want to thank you for taking the time today for being a guest on In Search of Excellence. I've been a huge fan for a long time.

Starting point is 00:45:32 I was super stoked when Miguel Solano, shout out to him, said, hey, I have Rodney Jerkins on your show. And I said, oh, I'd love to have Rodney on my show. You're a legend. I love your music. I heard you're an amazing person, which you are. And I want to thank you deeply for being a guest. Thank you, Rand. I appreciate you so much. Thank you.

In Search Of Excellence - Rodney Jerkins: Strive For Perfection And Be Beyond Prepared | E54

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