In The Dark - Season 2 Update: Five Years Later

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

After nearly twenty-three years behind bars, Curtis Flowers was freed, in part due to In the Dark’s reporting. Now he’s back in Winona, Mississippi, where his saga began. What brought him home, and how is he doing? We visited him to find out. New Yorker subscribers get new In the Dark episodes early and ad-free. Subscribe today at newyorker.com/dark. In the Dark has merch! Buy hats, T-shirts, and totes at store.newyorker.com.  Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

Hey, it's Madeline. Before we get to the episode, there's something I want to tell you. You want to make sure to follow the In the Dark feed, because later this month, we're launching an entirely new series that members of our team have been working on with an incredible New Yorker writer. I've been listening to the episodes as they've come together, and I can't wait for you to hear them. As always, the best way to support our show is to become a subscriber to the New Yorker. It's seriously so important. It's how we're able to keep making this work. You can get a special subscription offer and a free tote bag by signing up at new yorker.com slash dark. And thank you. Now, on to the episode.

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Grab yours in a two-pack at wonderbraw.ca and use code New Yorker at checkout for 25% off regular price and free shipping. Some conditions apply, code valid until December 6th. It is strange to be back. Yeah, it is. So far it looks the same. Just the same. A few months ago, I drove with our producer, Samara Fremark, to a familiar town. All right.

Here's our exit. We turned on to a familiar street. I believe they're just right down here, right? If memory serves. Yep. And pulled up in front of a familiar White House with dark shutters. The White House wasn't there? Yeah, it's this house.

There was a shiny white Nissan truck parked out front. The truck in the driveway. With a bumper sticker on the back window that said... Locally hated. Locally hated. Oh, we got to ask him about all these. We walked up onto the porch, and a man in a black baseball cap and Nike Slides came to the door. Someone who I never thought would be living in Winona, Mississippi, ever again.

Hello! Curtis, is that you? Yes, me? Curtis Flowers. You were so skinny. I had to. I had to. They made me lose it because I'm going to die better.

Oh, my goodness. That's so good to see you. You too. I said, well, surely they just stopped him about his evening. The last time I'd seen Curtis Flowers in person was back in 2020, about a year after he was released from prison. Curtis had spent 23 years behind bars and had been put on trial six times for a crime that even the state of Mississippi now acknowledges he did not convince.

the murder of four people at a local furniture store. Our reporting into Curtis's case had played a big role in Curtis getting out of prison. We'd uncovered false testimony, questionable forensic science, and a pattern of racial discrimination in jury selection by the prosecutor's office. Our findings made it all the way to the Supreme Court, where Curtis's conviction was overturned. The Supreme Court has thrown out the murder conviction of a Mississippi death row inmate who has been tried When I last saw Curtis, he was basically living and hiding in an undisclosed location out of state. It didn't seem safe for him to live in Winona, a small town where everyone knew about

his case, and many people, in particular, white people, still considered him guilty. This is Curtis talking about it back then. Winona is not somewhere I would just want to go and hang out. Just to be safe and, you know, I just feel, you know, it's... I shouldn't have to worry about anything, you know. So I left, decided to just move away. And so when I learned that Curtis had returned to live here, I was surprised.

I wanted to know why. And I wondered what his life was like now. After all, Curtis was just 26 years old when he was arrested. He spent so many years on death row. By the time he got out, he was nearly 50. How do you rebuild a life after all that? What did you all want to sit down? Yeah, it's going to be great.

Where should we sit? Wherever you want. Okay. On the porch? Yeah. Got that step down? I need a little cigarette. Where do you want to sit?

I like to sit in the sun. Okay. We sat down on the porch at his parents' house. Recurta spends a lot of his time these days. There's two little plants. a candle, an ashtray for a cigarette butts. The porch overlooks an empty field, and most days, the neighborhood around the house is quiet.

There's all kind of houses open on this street. A lot of empty houses? I kind of like it that way because it's quiet, you know. I have to worry about a lot. When I first came home, you know, I didn't talk to people, you know. People didn't talk to me. But then, you know, he started slowly, you know. and here I am.

Sitting on the porch together, Curtis told me that when he first got out of prison, his life was very different. Oh, man, I came home and we were going everywhere. Curtis emerged from the confines of his solitary cell into the swirl of being a kind of minor celebrity. There were the junkets to speak to groups all across the country. We're really, really grateful to have with us here at Duke Law, Curtis Flowers.

Every time I was called up going to go, I went. There were the interviews on television. What's Parchman like? The worstest thing you ever dreamed about, like a nightmare. The invitations to participate in mock trials at the law school up at Ole Miss. So you have to go back to trial again. Curtis, you've been to trial six times. Six times.

They tell you, like, you get a break. Well, I think it's kind of fun when you know you're not being railroad. trial's nice when you got the one on trial There were the trips to places like New York City We had a good time We walked Term Square We tried everything There was a dinner at a swanky Italian restaurant

Where the owner of the place Recognized Curtis She bags up and looked at me Curtis, motherfucking flower And picked up the entire bill She said, I'll follow your case the whole way Get what y'all want, it's on me tonight Everybody takes off a laugh

Seriously? Yeah, my cousin said, damn, everybody knows your head. There was Jayze's Rock Nation, which worked with the NFL to put Curtis's name on a helmet. There was the millionaire who offered Curtis use of his beachfront house in the Hamptons, where Curtis sat sending himself on the back deck, as someone who looked suspiciously like Matthew McConaughey, floated by on an inner tube. Because of the hair, you know, to hang down their back.

I said, they feel like Matthew McConae. I watch the time to kill. The star of a time to kill, or someone who looked at, look like him, called out to Curtis. Hey, how are you doing? I'm doing all right. How are you doing, sir? I'm doing on fine.

Curtis, this is like the weirdest transition from Parsham Prison to that? I'm trying to tell you. It was exciting and also a bit disconcerting. It was so much happening all at once. It just spooked me. It spooked you. What do you mean? What I mean is that I didn't expect things like that, you know, to go that way.

As the years went by, Curtis's life got a lot quieter. He found work as a handyman, doing odd jobs. He got married briefly, and then divorced. Nowadays, his life revolves almost entirely around one person. His father, Archie Flowers. You guys want to talk to him to that? I know he lived to hear from you, guys. Yeah, it would be great to talk to.

He was excited to hear earlier when I told him, I said, well, you know, from the podcast, they're coming. Oh, y'all's, yeah. All right, y'all ready? We went inside. Hello, Mr. Flowers. Archie was sitting in a chair in the dining room, watching Gunsmoke, the classic Western, on a little TV that Curtis had set up on the dining room table.

How you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm like well-dreve-huh. It's so good to see you. Curtis headed for the kitchen to crush his dad's meds, and stir them into a cup of applesauce. He fed his father a spoonful. You're in there?

Ooh, it's good. Yeah. Archie looked much older and weaker than I remembered. In the years since I'd last seen him, I'd learned he'd been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Back when I was first reporting this story, when Curtis was still locked up, I spent so much time with Archie and his wife, Lola.

We would sit together in their living room, Archie on the large, tufted ottoman, and Lola and me on the couch. Archie was a man who was more than comfortable with silence. The first few months I knew him, he seemed happy to let his wife do the talking. But over time, he'd let a joke slip or tell his story. Then he started asking, why I didn't come by more often? Yeah, right. Y'all come see me sometime anyway. This is from back then.

Sure, thanks. Always. I first stop and our last stop every time we're in town. That's right, that's right. And we developed a kind of routine. Good morning. Good morning. I would come over.

And we would just sit and talk. How you doing? I just got a job. Oh, okay. Every two weeks, Archie and Lola would make the drive to Parchman Prison to visit Curtis. And Archie would give me updates on those visits, how he and Curtis would use that time to sing together, in the visitation room, separated by a thick plexiglass divider.

Yeah, we got a song that he loved the sign and we get together. Say you love Jesus. Say you love Jesus. If you love Jesus, you ought to show some sign. Oh, he can tell that with that. Later on, Archie invited me to meet his gospel group, The Melody Kings. Ladies, there go, come by. I would drive out to watch their practices in a spare room at the Greenwood Public Library.

I actually got to see Archie perform a few times. Those performances are something I still think about, the intensity of them, how he seemed to completely lose himself in the moment. Archie told me that when he was performing, he imagined Curtis singing right next to him. Free. This is what you got to do. You got to pride. Yeah.

Archie did get to see Curtis released from prison. But his wife, Lola, never did. She died in July of 2018, just a year and a half before Curtis got out. After Lola died, Archie kept living in the family home, on his own. But then he started having problems with his memory. And those problems got worse. One time, nearly four years ago, he even went missing.

Authorities put out a silver alert, and he was found the next day by the Sheriff's Department, drinking coffee at a deli 80 miles from Winona. After that, Archie gave up driving. At a certain point, it became clear to Curtis and his five siblings that someone needed to stay with her father to take care of him. Curtis volunteered, though he said his dad tried to talk him out of it. He said, man, you don't have to hang around here looking after me. You don't have to hang around here looking after me.

I said, look, if you can take care of me, I can't take care of you for a little while. Archie smiled and said to Curtis. I'm going to tell Jesus about you. I said, well, I like the thing he said already. He's, well, I'm going to tell him anywhere. But that's my dad. And so this is why Curtis returned to Wynonna. He moved back into the family home to live with his dad and take care of him.

Curtis was trying to hire a caregiver for his father, but a lot of the time, the people he found fell through or wouldn't show up. Curtis's siblings help out, but most days, Curtis is with his father all day and all night. Raised him, he goes through a lot. and you just hate to see him go through it because my dad has always been this type of guy who's so independent right I'd like to rely on nobody to do nothing for him and I hate to see him like that

but that's why I volunteered to stay with him that's a lot of responsibility though yes it'd be you stress you out yeah but he's a good dude it really is you're ready Oh, you're ready?

It was time for Curtis to help his father get ready for bed. Oh, boy. He never picked me up. Now you're going to pick you up right now. You two, eh? Two of you. I'm dying you. Curtis reached out his hands for his father.

And held on to him as they walked slowly together. Curtis walking backwards, his father walking forwards, as they made their way into the bedroom. Come on, follow me. I got jeez. Jesus, and that's enough. That's enough? I won't know.

That's all you need? You're dumb about it. I'm going to kick you. You're right. Right behind. Curtis and his father share a bedroom. Curtis sleeps in his parents' bed, and his father in a smaller bed right next to him.

him. That's easier for him to get into these days. Curtis told me that even when Archie is sleeping, he worries about him. So he has a little alarm that he clicks on to his dad's clothing. It makes a sound if his dad tries to get up. Is he? I click it on him. I guess if he raised up. And then I just wake up.

Where are you going? There you go. Throw that bag that thing up. Curtis gently eased Archie into bed. I'm going the wrong way in. Yeah. That's your name? Yeah.

Wrong way. Wrong way. Hey. I'm going to lay down. Oh, you can. I got you. I got you. I got you.

Just lay down. Being there with Archie and Curtis, I was struck not for the first time, by the unfairness of it all. This family had waited 23 years for this moment, when Curtis would finally be out. But now that moment was here, and Curtis's mother was dead, and his father was struggling with dementia. Have a good night. I said all these work. Yeah. They saying good night to you.

Good night. Don't you leave. We're coming out tomorrow. You're going to have a great deal tomorrow. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. There was this joke that said that it was easier to get forgiveness in the Church of Christ

for murdering somebody than it was to be divorced. From Revisionist History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionous History, The Alabama Murders, wherever you get your podcasts. Samara and I spent several days in Winona with Curtis and his father. Sometimes we'd sit with Curtis in the living room, on the same couch where I'd spent so many hours talking with Archie and Lola. The room was still set up in the same tidy way that Lola had it. lots of floral patterns, heavy drapes, family mementos on the shelves and walls.

Other times, we'd go back out to the porch to talk while Archie slept inside. We talked about going for a drive around town together, but with no caregiver, it just wasn't possible. And so we stayed at the house and talked. I wanted to know what it was like for Curtis, to be back living in the same place where so many people had judged him and thought he was a murderer. And I wanted to know what was up with that bumper sticker that we'd seen on his truck when we drove up. You got to talk to me about these bumper stickers.

Oh, what does that one say? Locally hated. Locally hated. At the time Curtis bought the sticker, he just moved back to Mississippi, after having lived out of state for a while. And the sticker seemed like a way of bracing himself for the reactions he expected to get.

I just felt like that at the time. You know, I just came home. I said, well, they hate me anyway. Let me get that way, and I put it right in the center. I told Curtis, that seemed like a bold move, driving around Winona, Mississippi, with a bumper sticker like this. In a town where opinions about his case were divided sharply along racial lines. In my own reporting, before Curtis's conviction had been overturned,

black people I talked to in town nearly all believed that something was seriously wrong with Curtis's conviction. Most believed he was innocent. white people held a different view. Nearly every white person in town I'd talked to was convinced that Curtis was guilty. Curtis told me that the first person to comment on his bumper sticker was a white lady. I was at the real life.

I seen a car pull up behind me, blow the horn. I was a white person. So I pulled it over, and she pulled over to. She said, who I love that sign in your back with glass? She said, anyone gave you a hell about it? I said, no, they had it. I said, you first wanted to stop me and spoke on it. And you laughed about it.

See, I think it's just so unique after all you've been through. And then, like, the more I care of it, you know, more people come, and don't they laugh at it. So you have a bumper sticker that says locally hated, and the only response you've gotten to it is from locals saying that they love it.

They love it. And, you know, they find it fun. So now do you feel, is a bumper sticker true? Do you feel locally hated? No. I don't know. That's why I thought about taking it down.

But then, you know, I said, all of every guy with positive feedback about it. So why not just leave it in now? While it was nice that people didn't respond by trying to drive him off the road, over time, the kind of nice reactions

he got from people in town have been difficult in their own way. I go to Girsto sometime. People see me and then just walk up, start talking. How are you doing, Miss Fly? I'm doing all right. How are you? It was just started talking. Curtis described these conversations as basically all going the same way.

an encounter with a white person at the grocery store or the gas station where the person would say to him We did not know. We did not know. We'd always just assumed you were guilty because the district attorney, Doug Evans, said you were. And then they'd go on to say

how it was only many years later when the podcast came out that they began to question what they've been told. And Curtis would be standing there, trying to decide how exactly to respond to this. Would you believe when the first time, you know, I always do it as a joke to make them like, yeah. I said, so you could have thought about that the first time.

So people come up to you and say, we didn't know, like basically saying, look, look, we believe Doug Evans. From the get-go. And what are you thinking when people tell you that? That they should think for themselves. They should think for themselves. Think for themselves and not take something somebody else's sake. When someone tells you, like, you comes up to you in a grocery store and it's been, you spent 23 years of your life behind bars and they say, oh, I just always assumed you were guilty.

I mean, is part of you, like, angry at that person? No, no. It's to be expected around here, especially if it's someone that you know would believe Doug Evans over you. Yeah, and I hate to see the weird with all the time, so that's why I explain it that way. Well, are we talking about white people?

Pretty much. But they were just so bent on because Doug Evans said, this is my guy. He's guilty. The district attorney, Doug Evans, the man who prosecuted Curtis over six trials, retired in 2023. Doug Evans is still licensed to practice law in Mississippi, according to a website associated with the Mississippi Bar Association. Since our reporting came out, there have been at least three complaints filed against Evans at the Mississippi Bar. One has gone seven years with no known decision. Another has languished for so long that the lawyer who filed,

it, has since written a letter of complaint to the Mississippi Supreme Court. We asked the Bar Association to explain the apparent delays, but they refused, saying that they would not even confirm the existence of the complaints, let alone comment on them. In 2021, Curtis filed a lawsuit against Doug Evans and three former law enforcement officials, accusing them of pressuring witnesses, failing to meaningfully investigate alternate suspects, and preventing black people from serving on the jury. juries. The lawsuit was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. We reached out to Doug Evans, and through a lawyer, he declined to comment. Curtis also receives $50,000 a year

from the state of Mississippi. A judge ordered the state to pay Curtis this amount every year for 10 years. The total, $500,000, is the most the state allows for a wrongful conviction. Better late than never, but 23 years, you're a lot. life gone, you can't even get it back. They didn't think a few dollars always they're asking. But you have to really think about it, you know.

Those are years you can't get back. Just pick up, move on. Curtis told me, he doesn't spend much time thinking about Doug Evans these days, but he does still think a lot about fairness. Curtis was the victim of a very big injustice, so big it was in

the national, even international news. But these days, the injustices he notices are smaller, more day-to-day. The kinds of things he sees when he's sitting outside on the porch, like the police pulling over black people who don't appear to be doing anything wrong. You come crawl over here, and they're everywhere, in that parking lot right there, on that street before you get to that gym down there, lit up all day long. Just stopping somebody. They've got nothing better to do.

The family's porch overlooks an empty field, where a public school once stood, before it was integrated by court order in 1970, and then mysteriously burned to the ground. Since I'd last been in town, a tall metal fence had gone up around the field, cutting off what had once been a popular shortcut through the neighborhood. Curtis said the cops had taken to trying to arrest people who jumped the fence to use the shortcut. I've seen a guy come, a little young kid, come through here once Saturday in the morning. the fence right over there. He's just walking down through there. He got a walkman on, looking down, bobbing the ear. He don't even see the police pool right down there and got out of the

truck and just came around and leaned against the hood and waited on. I was doing it right here. You tried to wave him off. I tried to let him know. He just never even paid me no to him. He just walked. He got right out on that platform and see him. He just froze in his track. He looked this way. He looked that way. I said, he's thinking about running now. He said, come on around. He walked on down. He put him right in the truck. Pull it off with it. They took the kid away for walking across this field? For, like, trespassing or something?

No trespassing. They didn't mean it. Curtis told me that one day, a guy came by with some bolt cutters, cut a hole in the fence. The next day, a cop showed up at Curtis's house. He said, hey, how you doing Curtis? I'm doing all right. He said, look, you happen to see anybody over there on this side of the fence?

I said, now it's some particular person you're looking for? Well, someone cut the fence. I said, no, I don't know nothing about that now. Curtis said the cop even asked him about his security camera. He said, I can't help but notice. Y'all have a security camera. I said, now, there ain't no law. I'm not a convenience store.

I don't give you no footage. They wanted to get your camera footage. Yeah, the black guy behind him started laughing. And I said, yeah, I don't have to give you no footage. I said, I did 23 years. I did 23 wrong for years. I said, now, I'm supposed to just turn him some footage over and the hipton guys.

I said, I don't want to wrap people out like that. But. You said that to the Cups? What the Cups say? Have a night day, Kurt. You too. They walk around that laugh. I think a lot of people would make a different choice.

Yeah. You come on and ask me to tell on somebody. What are you trying to give them 23 a year to? Do you think there's a way in which you being so known for everything that happened with you protects you in a way from being treated even worse than a local police? Or do you think it's the opposite? I think it helps. Yeah.

Because, you know, so many people know me and know me that, you know, I feel they have to watch how they approach. Hi, this is David Remnick, and this fall, join us in celebrating the 100th anniversary of the New Yorker at the New Yorker Festival, which returns October 24th through the 26th. We'll be joined by Salman Rushdie, Sarah Jessica Parker, George Saunders, Zadie Smith, Rashid Johnson, Keanu Reeves, Ocean Vuong, and many others. Tickets are on sale now, and we'll be announcing more events soon. New Yorker.com slash festival. That's the New Yorker.com slash festival. Over the days we were in Winona, there were times when Curtis was especially exhausted

from taking care of his dad. So he was up a lot last night? Yeah, we had the episode of that I'd clean him up. And then we just ended up talking. He wasn't ready to go back to sleep. I remember sitting on the easy to be, just rocking. And he talked, I looked at the clock one time, about 3.15, and I was like, look, he's time to lay down.

again. He said, go ahead. I said, no. Curtis said he'd been up for hours, just rocking his father back to sleep, trying to keep his own eyes open. And by the morning, Archie was full of energy, sitting in his chair at the dining room table, and Curtis was spent. And then we've been full steam ahead this morning. Yeah. He got a little mojo in them legs, too. He would move it and moving. I walked in the kitchen, I come back, he was sitting right there.

I went into the room, come back, he was sitting way over here. Something is wrong with you cutting. Something wrong with you. Oh, man. Do a little bit of, trying to think of a song that you might know. I know you even forgot it now. That's a lot of my mind, but I'll tell you what, you don't like this. Haven't been to heaven.

But I heard the street. I haven't been to heaven, but I heard the streets were paid with you. Long time, that's said, they'd have far away. Haven't been to heaven, but I heard the streets were paid with gold. It's a place to rest and a pool to babe your soul. You remember? Lord, oh Lord, please hear my prayer. That's always on the same.

Give some, who wants to buy? Give me a place to rest. Oh my. When I get that, you see it? It's a song that me and Daddy than try a lot of songs sitting here every day all day. Sure. I come through the door hum and like, hmm, what you're on, my boy? That's a good song, man.

We go from there. He's going to sing it anyway. He go from that. On our last morning in town, when we pulled up, I was surprised to see Curtis outside in the driveway by himself. Oh, Curtis. Throwing up the trash. It was literally the farthest I'd seen Curtis get from his father the whole time we'd been in town.

Good morning. A caregiver Curtis had been trying to hire had showed up unexpectedly, and she offered to watch Archie for a few hours. Well, yeah, Ms. Cunningham showed up. I'm so happy to see her. I said, oh, my good. Thank you. Yeah, and I get him so sit here and I come right out of the house with the tray. I'm glad you're getting a little break, because that's a lot. I mean, I know you don't mind doing it and in some ways you like doing it, but, man, you need a break.

We decided to spend the free morning driving around town. We all piled into Curtis's truck. All right. We're about ready now. I'm going to ride a shotgun. We drove down Summit Street, Powell Street. Applegate. Their neighborhoods where I'd spent so much time years earlier, knocking on people's doors, investigating Curtis's case.

I know you guys are probably familiar with somebody here. Oh, yeah. Very familiar with a lot of all. I mean, this is just like a strange experience. I got to say, Curtis, because we have driven this route so many times, like, piecing this all together, and I never thought that one day I would be driving this route with you. The actual person. Right.

Yeah. And we're coming up into town right now. We drove past the police station and passed the courthouse where Curtis was put on trial. As much as I've been in this courthouse, there'll have my picture on the wall in here. Have your picture on the wall? Yeah. This should be like Marlowe the king. I should have went down in history with them.

There should be a Curtis flower statue outside. Right out in this field. We put them through so much hell that we gave him a statue. See, I want to be doing what this guy doing right there. Riding a motorcycle. A man was riding by us on an old black motorcycle. Earlier on the porch, Curtis had pulled up some photos on his phone to show us the exact type of motorcycle he dreamed of having.

Look at that. There I do. Oh, my God. A red Canem spider. A three-wheeler that looks like a cross between a motorcycle and a snowmobile, or maybe an ATV. That's a pretty machine. I'll be looking at me every day.

And I want to get out there and just ride, right, right, right. Oh, man. Let down my hair and I don't want you have hair. Yeah. I'm serious. I want to get that bad. So do you think that eventually you'll leave Winona? Yeah.

Yeah, I tell my sisters and my brother, you know, daddy, the only reason I'm still here right now. I said, Lord knows, how would have happened to him today and I'd be out of here before the weekend. Really? Yeah. We're probably back in Texas somewhere, Alabama. Even one better than here. Do you think you'd like to live in a place where not everybody knows you? I prefer it that way, Mount.

Just want a fresh start, you know? Just being somewhere where people don't know me. Just starting a new life, you know. It's just a lot easier to forget the paths and move on. Like around here, if I stop somewhere, people want to talk. Curtis? Are you Curtis? Every time you see someone, they bring up what I went through. So, like, every day it's like you're reminded.

reminded of what I've been through when I'm out in public someone says hey Curtis that was so wrong or hey Curtis I've changed my mind okay they think they're being nice but they're just reminding you exactly all we bring it up and they just walk and start talking hello excuse my name is so-and-so so-and-so and I just saw you and I just wanted to speak and say he's just a shame what you had to go through I see yes it is but they'll just keep talking talking talking to follow and I'll through the stove. And I'd be trying to find the milk and the butter so I can hurt him get out of here.

So sometimes I pull out my phone, I'll excuse me. Hello? Yeah, I'm headed out now, you know, something like that. Like pretending to be, you're like I have to go now? Just get away from it. Because now I walk out the store, now I'm thinking about it now. The day was going good, and somebody brought that up. We kept driving.

Curtis turned on to a gravel road. That's a cemetery right up here. I guess there's the time I had to ride through here now at the time. It's going to be raining a little bit. See the sky. The cemetery sits on a small sloping field, surrounded by trees, just around the block from Curtis's house. We pulled over to the side of the gravel road and got out.

All these right here, family. family. Family. We're deep over here. We walked with Curtis through the cemetery. Him Seals, like the Kinfolk. My mom's sister's son, that's him, Quill, Rufus John. All these seals and Sanders, flowers, camels, woods,

they're all family. This whole little hill here, nothing but family. As you can see, We got Mama right over here. Lola Flowers' grave was marked with a granite stone, with the word mother etched in front. Next to it was another gravestone, marked father.

It was for Archie. The guy who owned the Toonstone place, he said, you know, I've known your mom for years, and I'm not going to even let you guys buy a tombstone. I'm going to do it myself. And he just went on to add it daddy to it. Curtis's mom had always. believed that Curtis would get out one day.

She was so convinced of it that she even saved up money and bought him a small house, right across the street from the family home. Though she later had to sell Curtis's house to pay for her dialysis treatments. And see, I'll come up here and I clean the grave off and try to get it looking neat,

especially doing Easter and stuff like that. Curtis comes here whenever he can, whenever he can find someone to watch his father. I got a lot of my mind, and I come up here and just sit sometime. And as you get out, I come over here and, you know, sit on the tailgate of my truck and just be talking. Then I see too many people that are walking through, and then I get in the truck and leave. Because they see me, they're going to come and talk to me, you know. Curtis said he sits there and talks to his mom about all kinds of things.

I can have a conversation with my mom, you know, talk about things going on, what I'm feeling. So I come up here, I said, Mom, you know what I'm going through? You know, I'm taking care of Daddy. you know, or can't get nobody else to come and relieve me and do stuff like that. My mom is y'all always taking, baby. You can talk to me about any now. And I do it.

I still do it to the day. I mean, you talk to your mom probably more than anybody while you were in prison, right? You talk to her, like, every day? Every day, sometimes three, four times a day. And these are like $25 a call. Yeah. She always won't know what going on with me.

Am I all right? But my mom, she was always like that. Do you feel like she's with you when you're sitting there? Every time I leave, I got this sense of calm over me, you know. We had to get back to the house. The caregiver needed to leave at one. They didn't mean they've got to do it again, one-on-one. Yeah.

I hope she's been keeping him up because if he's been sleeping, I'm going to get here. Curtis headed inside to check on his dad. Hey, what dad are doing? It turned out the new caregiver had mistakenly allowed Archie to take a nap, throwing off the schedule. Okay, but I normally, I don't know to try to keep on all that can. Okay, okay, but he said, I want to go lay down. So now Curtis was guessing he'd be up late, trying to get his dad to go to sleep.

He just trying to cheat on me. Oh, he's trying to, well, he got you. So he kept me up all night. So he got you the day then. I asked him when he ready to get up, because he just woke up. That way you can see everybody. I don't want to see you.

I know you don't want to see me. You see me every day, every night. I'm talking all these beautiful faces. Ah, oh. Ain't no danger in God's water. Oh, there ain't no danger. Oh, in God's why.

I know. You know anybody. He said I forgive me a rookie. After a few days, our trip had come to an end, and we had a plane to catch in Memphis. We said goodbye to Archie Flowers. Well, I'm glad we got a chance to see you, Mr. Flowers. It was really good. Yeah.

Yeah, I'll do me kill. Take it easy. I won't do that. Okay. Curtis followed us outside to the car. You guys can't think of anything else? Well, people are good. We're good.

It's been really so good to see you. You all, too. It's been too long, and we shouldn't let another five years go by. Thank you. Thank you. You all come back sooner than that. Yeah. I hate to see you go now.

I feel like we've been together all week. I know. Great to see you. None of us really wanted the visit to be over. Oh, if you get home, call me. All right. Anyway, I'm going to miss you, guys. Yeah.

If y'all get bored, we're going on the road, call me. All right, sounds good. All right, I wish you had brought the car to take this airport. Aw. Been out of a little hour before I let you go. Bye, Curtis. Great to see you. Bye.

Curtis walked back inside. There were dishes to wash, pills to crush, meals to prepare, songs to sing. His father was waiting for him. We visited Curtis and Archie back in March. After we finished writing this episode and we're preparing to release it, we received some sad news from Mississippi. Curtis's father, Archie Flowers, had died.

He passed away peacefully on Monday, October 6th. Curtis and Curtis's sister, Priscilla, were by his side. I talked to Curtis the day after his father died. He told me about their last conversation. He said his dad asked him to be there for the family. Archie said, I need you to be the glue for everybody. Keep them together and make sure they stay happy. Because Daddy's tired and I'm ready.

Archie Flowers was 83 years old. Oh, I couldn't hear no matter way. I was waiting. I was waiting my life. Oh, I could

hear. I'm back. He, oh, and you do I don't know.

I don't know how much. I don't know. This episode. was reported and produced by me, Madeline Barron and managing producer Samara Freemark, with help from Raymond Tungacar, reporter Parker Yesko, and producer Natalie Jablonsky.

It was edited by Alison McAdam. Additional editing by Willing Davidson and Julia Rothschild. This episode was mixed by Corey Shreppel. Music by Johnny Vince Evans and Gary Meister. Fact-checking by Teresa Matthew and Raymond Tungacar. Legal review by Fabio Bertone. Our managing editor is Julia Rothschild.

The head of global audio for Condé Nast is Chris Bannon. The editor of The New Yorker is David Remnick. You can support our work by subscribing to The New Yorker at New Yorker.com slash dark. And thank you. You know, If you're a reader, or even an aspirational reader, I hope you'll join us on Critics at Large from The New Yorker. Each week on this show, we make sense of what's happening in the culture right now and how we got here.

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