In Your Pants with Dr. Susie G - Marika Zandstra - Ladyscaping

Episode Date: August 9, 2017

Susie talks with Marika Zandstra, Physical Therapist/Pelvic Rehab Specialist   Thanks for listening! http://drsusieg.com/

You're listening to In Your Pants with Dr. Susie G, the physiotherapist for your privates, helping you get in the know down below. Today on the show, Susie welcomes physical therapist and pelvic rehab specialist, Marika Zanstra. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for being on the show. I am so excited because I have my really good friend, Mari Zanstra, with me on the show today to talk about ladiescaping.

And I know we had such a good time when we were at a visceral dissection course in Sacramento, California. I remember us walking down in Napa Valley discussing, you know, what would be a great blog topic? And all of a sudden it comes up. We're talking about vaginas and penises and smelly ones and clean ones and how each one looks totally different. And we're like, that would be brilliant. Let's talk about ladiescaping and how vaginal hygiene is completely being blown out of the water today with various products and things that you insert in your vagina. And Mari, I'm so glad you're here. Actually, Mari is from Indiana, and she's actually opening up her own business very soon.

That's very exciting. Mari, tell us all about that and just a little bit about yourself so the listeners can connect. Hey, Susie. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be talking to you today. Yeah. No, actually, I'm very excited. A good friend of mine and I are going to be practicing together in Valparaiso, Indiana,

coming up probably towards the end of August. And so trying to get all of that put together and get everything started. Currently, right now, I'm working at a local hospital, but very happy to be back in private practice and being able to offer pelvic therapy to everybody up here in Northwest Indiana and Chicagoland area. How long have you been practicing, Mari? I've been a PT for 17 years. I've been doing pelvic rehab for over 10 years now, it seems like. Everything's changed a lot in the last 10 years and we've, uh, just know so much more now than we did when, uh, when things kind of started. So I'm very excited to be working in the, in the field at this point. Awesome. And I always

like to ask this question, but how did you get into it? Because I get asked this question a lot, but how did you start, you know, what, what, what made spark the idea of, Oh, I'm going to wake up today and I want to work on penises and vaginas. I mean, what, what sparked your passion for working in the pelvic health field? Well, when I was at my first job right out of school, I had, there was a therapist there that treated pelvic health, but, you know, it was kind of in its infancy back then. So she basically treated patients with incontinence. There really wasn't a lot of internal work that was being done. And it, you know, it was just basically a very bare bones program, but I found it extremely interesting. And, um, I'm just the type of

person that doesn't shy away from anything and, you know, saying words like penis and vagina are no problem for me. So, um, I just saw the need there and I, uh, started getting involved in just asking a lot of questions and then decided to go to some continuing education. And, um, I think I saw my first patient for incontinence, and I got hooked and just started going to more and more courses and getting very involved in pelvic pain and male health considerations. I'm also now treating pediatrics for bowel and bladder dysfunction, so that's very exciting. That's awesome. And I just I love it because it's an area that so many people need help and they just don't know who to go to and they don't feel comfortable talking to people and to be able to sit down with a practitioner that makes them feel comfortable and can help them in so many ways has just been, you know, wonderful to see people actually get help in that area that they need. absolutely and Mari I mean you hit you are totally comfortable to be around with

how many COVID and Wallace classes have we been in where my vagina is full force in your face and you're like yes that's good that looks good so you know guys and ladies uh Mari is awesome and she really has a magical touch and she's really great so if you're in the Indiana area please uh hit her up because you won't um you won't be disappointed so we have a fun show for you today we're actually like I said we're going to talk about ladiescaping but this conversation could probably take us in many different directions me and Mari are notorious for doing that so bear with us on our little tangents it's going to be fun entertaining so yeah so Mari okay I have to ask you you know all this hype about using jade eggs or herbal vaginal cleansing you know oils

Now they're talking about using hemp oil or like marijuana infused tampons and whatnot. I mean, there's so much out there in media that's being hyped up about the vagina and what to stick in it. You know, what's your basic like model for just how do you just keep it clean? How do you keep it from being smelly? What are the myths about the vaginas? You know, go in a little bit about what you're after 17 years of experience and you're having your own vagina.

what would you what would you recommend and where where do you see this going i mean i think ultimately we have to go back to the basics i mean the vagina is a self-cleaning area of our body and we really should not be putting all kinds of foreign things in there you know if there's a problem with it then actually the best way to help that is to stop putting things in our vagina. You know, I think that we as a society have made the natural odors of the vagina somehow embarrassing, which is, you know, really sad. Um, you know, basically just using plain water to clean that area is really the best advice. But I do know that, you know, probably good 60 percent of women out there are not going to listen to that advice and they want their vagina

to smell you know beautiful and perfumey and not like a natural vagina at all um and so so you know with some of the stuff i mean there are products that can be used that are less irritating we definitely want to avoid you know um unnatural products we want to avoid like parabens and things like that in those products um so i remember when we were in ipps which is an international pelvic pain conference that marie and i both attended there is a doctor named well he called himself dr stoney but he's out of california and he did a talk about the medicinal use for medical marijuana and you know a question was asked what about marijuana use or marijuana oil for vaginal pain or pelvic pain or what have you.

And he completely said, no, the oil itself, because of its chemical makeup, does not penetrate the vaginal mucosa. So it does nothing. Right. Absolutely. And, you know, there are people that are going to believe that. There are people, you know, a lot of these people that are believing that the CBD oils and all of those are, you know, the be all end all, which I think there are benefits

to them. But, you know, everybody thinks they should be used for everything now. And they don't understand what, you know, how the body metabolizes things. And, you know, the vaginal mucosa, it's there for a reason. It's actually there to keep out bacterias and keep out infections. And so it also helps keep out some of these medications that they think are going to be helpful. I also wonder as well with the products that they use to extract these oils and to infuse these oils into these products, you know, there are probably irritants that are likely being used at the same time. So, you know, I also wonder what kind of irritations these products may be causing on top of actually doing nothing to help with the pelvic pain that they're

proposed to be helping. Right. Absolutely. I totally agree. And on that topic, let's talk about the hair because you know you us women are like oh my god I gotta get you know I gotta shave I gotta Brazilian and to be honest I mean this might be TMI but I have stopped shaving down there I have stopped I have stopped shaving because I'm like I my urethra I mean because I used to back in the day have you know symptoms of like urethral irritation it would feel like it's a UTI but it's really not and I was wondering if how much of my hair my hair down the pubic hair that helps protect bacteria and other you know things cleansing you know how the hair just cleanses down there so what's your what's your take about ladiescaping and keeping hair down

there and the function of hair pubic hair well you know I mean I'm a big fan of hair down there I definitely keep mine trimmed and you know well scaped but not not bare so it's not scary no not scary you don't want scary but you know the closer that you get to the vulva and you um over the labia the more sensitive that tissue is and the hair is there for a reason it's there to protect it's there as a cushion um it actually also helps with the sensation down there as we're constantly removing that hair the labia and the vulva getting introduced to all kinds of friction and pressure all day long and it starts to either irritate or desensitize so you know if you wonder why it takes you longer to orgasm that could be a big reason because all day long you're being constantly

stimulated and your body's going to start shutting down so um you know the hair is there for quite a quite a few reasons um it also you know what it helps keep out bacteria which is really great Which then helps the vagina do its job of actually cleaning itself and not needing all these outside things to make it smell good and, you know, stay healthy. And, you know, some of the other effects of the hair that are really helpful is it helps with pheromones. So, you know, a whole other sexy time thing, you know. we think that we're doing ourselves a benefit by removing all of it, but we're actually removing a lot of our, you know, natural pheromones that are helped with attraction and arousal and all of that as well. So I'm a big fan of, you know, at least keeping enough hair down there that you're keeping,

you're keeping the area protected and you're maintaining those benefits of it. oh my gosh and I wonder like how many and I'm in your practice like in your experience those that have like vulvodynia or vaginismus or something like you know where it's where it's a totally you know they don't know where it's coming from right especially with vulvodynia and like the burning and the itching how many of those ladies are you seeing are you know shaving or waxing or have no hair versus keep their hair there I mean I'm just curious to see if that You know, I don't think this has been studied in literature, but I would like to know what your thoughts are on that because that's really interesting. Well, I mean, I would say, I don't know, you know, to make an exact correlation is really hard.

But, you know, my younger population definitely that come in with vulvodynia, I would say a good 90% of them are almost completely shaved. And it's really hard to convince them to leave it alone for a while. Um, you know, a lot of them are using a lot of over-the-counter products in that area. They're, uh, you know, washing and cleaning and doing everything that they can think of that might make it, you know, um, more quote unquote hygienic when actually all they're doing is promoting, you know, an unnatural environment for the vagina. And I really firmly believe there hasn't been a good, you know, any good literature research on this but i really firmly believe that the more we do down there the um the more at risk we are

getting yeast infections or especially like low grade um yeast overgrowth that can cause mild irritations um but not necessarily the big full-blown yeast infection so i totally agree with you yeah because i see a lot of patients that come in and you know cultures and things like that are negative but they definitely have the symptoms and um i think our you know we have more sensitivity down there so when something's off our body's going to tell us and i think that all of that quote-unquote hygienic you know scaping down there is really adding to a lot of a lot of this vulvodynia that we're seeing right right now i mean and i just got back from a visceral class where they had a doctor from Germany come by, Dr. Martin Gluthelin, and he

talked a lot about the gut microbiome and where a lot of our autoimmune diseases, infections, viruses, and chronicity, inflammation, chronic pain, fibromyalgia, his theory is saying it's all coming from an imbalance or a change in the gut microbiota. and uh i just want to know how you know what your thoughts are on how the gut microbiome plays role in vaginal floral health um and the presence or not presence of you know frequent utis for a lot of our patients that have them or symptoms of and bacterial vaginosis or yeast infections yeah i mean i think it plays a huge part in it uh i think you know our bodies are meant to maintain this natural balance that help us fight off infections and you know um and when we start

affecting especially like vaginal mucosa when we start affecting that vaginal mucosa by over friction and irritation and things like that and that starts to break down you know even the smallest amount of bacteria that gets in there really affects the microbiota of that area. And so then the natural balance and the pH balance can be off and, you know, all these byproducts of the good bacteria that help to fight all of that, the yeast infections and all of the other bacteria that get in there that are going to be harmful, you know, that gets thrown off. And I think that that causes a lot of problems and, you know, they're really investigating it in the gut, but I think we can translate that very easily to the vaginal mucosa.

And, you know, even within the urethra and as it goes up into the bladder, I think that, you know, we have to maintain that healthy flora there for, for that mucosa to stay intact and for our bodies to fight off all those infections that are coming in. Right. No, totally. And I, I always tell, you know, now that I learned all this stuff, in addition to the general stuff where you're like, okay, if you're getting frequent infections, if you're more prone to having UTIs, well, there's certainly something with your diet. And I, you know, I'm not a nutritionist by any means, but I think that in talking in terms of nutrition and diet and lifestyle, you know, stress management, you know, that can cause, you know, if you're stressed, if you're on sympathetic

overload, if you're just having too much on your plate, how that can affect your gut and create leaky gut syndrome right or eating lots of sugar i mean the only sugar that our body can absorb is glucose fructose and sucrose and lactose those are all that they are not absorbed by the gut at all and so it just creates a an environment with the bacteria just kind of grows grows and then creates a nice biofilm on top of it so it becomes super strong and then starts to cultivate and over time now it doesn't happen overnight where a lot of our patients think oh my gosh i woke up with this something must have caused it yesterday where they're not really thinking about well how has your diet been ever since you were a kid like i know for example i grew up on mcdonald's burger

king you know subway pizza yep i mean my breakfast was ham egg and cheese croissant you know every day ham egg and cheese croissant from burger king hash browns a side of cinnamon rolls and milk. I mean, that was it like every single day. And of course I'm my mom's single mom. She didn't cook. She was raising two kids. I get it, but we didn't know any better. And, and, you know, on top of that, you know, I've read also, and maybe you can chime in on this, that C-sections, women who have C-sections, the children are more predisposed to diabetes, asthma, celiac disease. And I have asthma and severe allergies and my mom didn't breastfeed me and I, and I was a C-section baby. So I don't know what you're, um, you know, you can chime in on that and what you're,

what you know about that or what you think about. Well, I didn't know, I mean, from my own experience, I've had two C-sections, um, and you know, both of my children, um, you know, my youngest child, he does have issues with asthma. And that was one of the big things that they were concerned about was because, um, of the issue with the lungs when a child is not delivered through the vaginal canal, that all of that fluid doesn't get pushed out of the lungs and they have to artificially suction it out. And so there is more of a predisposition to respiratory distress and respiratory disorders. And it's also, I mean, I had a horrible time breastfeeding because my body was not ready to go into labor and have that baby. And so, you know,

my milk didn't come in the way it was supposed to. And, you know, being able to give him that colostrum that was needed at the beginning that helps to fight off the immune system and fight all these infections and really boost his immunity in early was very challenging. And, you know, I did do it, but it was not easy at all. And so I think a lot of, you know, women end up not nursing. I think that not having that compression and that pressure through the vaginal canal, you know, they know that it affects the lungs as for like gut um you know how it affects the gut it's hard to tell but i think those early immune systems help to boost and build uh our natural immunity and you know the gut is one of the largest areas where our immune system it's our you know first

offense at fighting a lot of bacteria that enters our body so i think that there definitely is a correlation um between that and you know it is nice to see that uh i think there is a push to start moving back towards more natural deliveries but you know c-sections are still very very very common nowadays and so why do you think why do you think c-sections i'm just curious i have my own thoughts on this but why do you think c-sections are more common uh today than they were? Well, I think for one, they're safer than they used to be. So for many doctors, it's a very viable option as opposed to going into any kind of complicated vaginal delivery. I think that there's a big push to reduce any complications from, you know, vaginal delivery. So even when

there's a hint of something that may go wrong, I think a lot of the pushes tend to go straight towards a C-section. Um, I also think there are women that are afraid of ruining their vaginas. So, um, and there are physicians that will accommodate them and, uh, and perform C-sections. I don't think that that's an overly common thing now, but I do know that for me, having one C-section automatically put me in a category for having another C-section, um, if I wanted. And so I, um, you know, at the time I actually was not allowed to have a vaginal birth for my second child, but, uh, nowadays I know women are, but they also are automatically given the option to have a second C-section if they've already had one. So, um, and it's, you know, for me,

it was told to me that, you know, why would you want to ruin your vagina when you've already had a C-section. So, um, you know, there's, there are things that are being, that are being told to women that may or may not be beneficial for them and for their child. I mean, we do know that vaginal deliveries, um, you know, do put you at a greater risk for pelvic organ prolapse, but C-sections by far have many issues and complications that are related to them as well. So, yeah. yeah wow so the c-sections i don't see we're all over the place guys um no but going back going back on that so i i got off topic because it was all about flora and the gut and how c-sections impact the the flora of the gut and and what have you um so in terms of if someone does have let's

say some of our listeners who are female do have symptoms of bb or yeast what are some recommendations that you would give for them to help, um, manage these symptoms, decrease these symptoms? I mean, what would you recommend? Well, you know, one of the first things that I do kind of recommend to patients is something, um, that is all natural that you can, uh, you can use in that area is a little bit of coconut oil every day. Um, you know, it does provide some good lubricant, especially if you've done a ton of ladiescaping and there's nothing down there to protect you. Um, it can help to heal, you know, uh, if there's any irritations there, uh, it, it does have some natural antibiotic properties without being, um, excessive without being

damaging. Uh, and then beyond that, I really like them to just leave it alone. Um, you know, if it's a, if it's a raging yeast infection and, uh, I prefer over the counter, um, the uh clitramazole cream like the seven day cream like the like a monostat it's not a monostat though it's the more the um i think it used to be vinylotrimine it's clitramazole is the generic name to it okay the monostat to me is a little bit too harsh and it can it can actually burn and irritate the tissues and especially the one day or three day ones are very very concentrated and they can actually cause burning sensations. Really? Yes. Yes. So I'm not a fan of the one or three day applications, even though I know they are so much more convenient. I prefer

the seven day over the counter cream and, you know, just using that for the seven days. And then after that, really just leaving it alone, you know, adjusting your diet, reducing sugars in your diet is, is really, I think helpful. Um, so that's, you know, those are things that I think that are helpful. Uh, you know, the coconut oil is one that I think is great. Another natural and that I personally have used, um, that was helpful for me initially of getting over some of the irritation of a yeast infection is just using, um, hydrogen, hydrogen peroxide mixed with water. So like one part's hydrogen peroxide, three parts water, because the good bacteria in our body, actually hydrogen peroxide is a byproduct that actually helps to reduce the yeast. So you're

not improving the flora by it, but initially it can help reduce some of the yeast symptoms. But then after that, you just have to leave it alone so that the body can rebuild that balance. you know taking oral probiotics you know I'm still on the fence about some of these vaginal probiotics and some of these other things that are inserted I still feel like the best thing is to just stop inserting things oh totally I mean and on that note condoms so I just read somewhere that condoms they are the FDA is not obligated to write to create a label of what makes up a condom like the ingredients of a condom wow they they are not obligated to put on there and when you when you read the statistics about what you know like these trojan condoms and all

these over-the-counter ones like they're like what they have some really nasty stuff in them like they still have the propylene glycol parabens um i can't remember off the top of my head but i remember i'm like oh my gosh that's really shocking and and could be very could be very irritating. I know when I used to, well, I'm married now, but when I used to have, you know, intercourse and have the guy have a condom, it was like, it was very irritating and sensitive to my tissue. Like, I mean, and that was what I would think would, would create those symptoms of me having a UTI. But back then when I was, you know, in my twenties, I didn't, I didn't know any better. I mean, I wasn't in pelvic health. I was still in school and, you know, you go to the doctor and

they give you some antibiotics without even, I mean, honestly, without even testing you, they're like, oh, here, here's some antibiotics, which I think is just BS. And I think that just messed me up totally being on these antibiotics forever. Um, but, uh, yeah, I think, I think knowing, you know, what your condom is made out of and that not all of them are created equal and all these, you know, spermicidal and some, some of them are like, you know, floral and taste good and who knows, you know, but you know, you got to think about it. Like you said, you're putting that in your vagina and you're creating friction, just like you said, you know, you're inserting something that has an irritating chemical and then you're creating friction on top of that.

I mean, that just sets up the perfect storm. I absolutely agree. I mean, I know, you know, me personally as well. I mean, condoms are, are very irritating and, um, there aren't any other really good options. I mean, they have the lambskin ones that cost a fortune. Um, I know they do have another synthetic brand and I can't think of the name now, but it's another, um, that's supposed to be more hypoallergenic and less irritating, but that, that is also extremely expensive. Um, you know, birth control is a whole nother topic. There's so many things that it's wonderful and it gives women a whole lot of freedom. Um, but the, the options for birth control are also very, very, very challenging. And, um, but yeah, I, I feel like as a society,

our way of, you know, fixing anything that is affecting the vagina is by putting more things in there. And, you know, I think that's the problem. I think that we, you know, I mean, obviously, it's an area of our body that is meant for penetration, but it is not meant for us to throw everything in the kitchen sink up there. I mean, I agree. It's like, oh, the newest fad or bedazzle you know your vajayjay and like decorating it with like i've seen this i'm sure you've seen this right i mean facebook is notorious for that like oh decorating your vagina or getting a a vagina facial yes uh whatever they call you know they call it vagina facial i mean and this is when they do the herb infused um steam baths with for the vagina i mean i don't and and some

i will tell you that some on our four some colleagues of ours will say like no these things have been around for ancient you know many many years they're ancient techniques and they work they work like magic and i honestly i have not really done the research on it i'm not very well versed on it so i'm not going to put my two cents in but i just like you said just keep things pure you know and and just the way they're supposed to be i mean you know it's a self-cleaning oven And just like you said, and I don't know if herbal steam baths are necessarily necessary or having a facial down there is necessary. I don't know. Maybe you know more about these herbal things.

You know, and I really don't. I've done some reading on them. It's not something that is really widespread in this area. So it's not something I encounter with my patients too much at this point. But I know it's coming and I know that, you know, everybody's going to be so excited about it. Um, I think, you know, it kind of goes back to this idea that we have this horrible stigma against, um, you know, natural secretions and natural odors of the vagina. And that to me is such a shame because, you know, naturally, I mean, if, if you, it's

there for a reason and there's, um, like I said, there's hormones or spermons that are connected to that, that actually help improve arousal and help improve, you know, feelings of bonding during intercourse and things like that. They, you know, increase oxytocin levels in the brain and we're removing all of that. And, and we've stigmatized it. And, you know, it's not that you have to go out and go work out and have a sweaty vagina. And that's, you know, what we're talking about um use some water clean off the day from it but the rest of it is natural clean off the day from it hard day at work clean off the day

i'm sorry i just had to say it i love you mari i mean it's awesome but sorry i didn't mean to i've dropped you i just had to oh no but i mean that's that's really i think one thing that i would like to see um attitudes change is you know we've stopped we we try to artificialize everything and then you know somehow artificially go back to okay now we're you know now we're creating synthetic natural hormones instead of allowing our actual hormones to do something so you know leave it alone trim it up be you know be nice to it it doesn't have to be a massive jungle down there but for the most part I think we should just leave it alone don't touch it well you can touch it that's a whole other thing

no totally oh my gosh you're so naughty I love it I love it awesome um oh my gosh I just had question it left my mind about um the vagina down there um a lubricant let's talk about let's talk about lube because that's another thing that goes in the vagina and i get asked this a ton of times but what's your favorite loops first of all what do you think about lubricant what what are the do's and don'ts about lubricant and some background on that and what are your favorite go-to lubricants um you know i i am a fan of a lot of my patients using lube especially um ones that are close perimenopausal, postmenopausal, where there's some dryness issues, um, you know, cause we want to keep having sex. We don't want to have to stop. And, um, so sometimes it is absolutely necessary,

you know, going back to some of the more natural options, um, olive oil, coconut oil are big, you know, are, are great there. I'm a big fan of them. They don't absorb into the tissues too much. So I feel like there's, um, you know, it, it sticks around for a while. It allows for, um, more comfortable intercourse. I personally, just from personal experience, I'm not a big fan of water-based lubes just because I think they tend to dry up. And I know that that's kind of a go-to in our field are the paraben-free, dye-free water-based lubes. I haven't done a lot of research on it, but I do like the new silicone-based ones. They are supposed to be naturally hypoallergenic. I know some people feel like silica can be an irritant. I personally have

not found that. But to me, they slide and glide on the tissues a lot longer. And so there's a lot less absorption of it. And so that tends to be the ones that I recommend to my patients now. I tell them to try the, I usually give them an option of a water-based or a silicone-based, And most of my patients actually prefer the silicone-based after they've tried both of them. Oh, that's nice. I mean, I would agree. And I think there's a plant-based, there's a company that makes a plant-based oil lubricant as well that's completely organic and pH balanced. And I think the goal with when you're looking for a lubricant is, and I know I actually did a blog post on that, but they did a study on comparing like KY Jelly and Good Clean Love and all of those really famous lubricants.

And they pretty much said that you need to have a low osmolarity rate and you want to make sure that the pH is pretty friendly so it doesn't degrade the vaginal tissue because some of these components, and I'm not, you know, calling out KY jelly, but it was in the study that they said, you know, KY jelly was the most irritating to the vaginal and anal mucosa. so it like actually broke down the mucosa so just look at your ingredients just like you look at your food ingredients read the label if it's got a lot of shit that you can't name it's probably not good for you right i mean the less the better absolutely one thing i am happy about though is that the push for things being natural and organic we're starting to see some of these things pop up in the stores and so it's not always a oh this one obscure website that you have to order your um your stuff from and obviously on the internet they're all over the place now but um i think we're going to see more and more products that are really um focused on being um low

irritant and natural and organic and um so i am excited to i am excited about that but i think along with that then we also have to watch out for i mean i'm waiting for you know the the hemp oil lubricant that's going to come out if it's not already out cbd oil for your crotch i mean i'm sorry this is like but totally i mean but again it's a marketing it is it is sensationalized like you said and it's marketed because sex sells and sadly in a in a in a very ineffective way you know it's it's a it's a facade or a you know it's a facade of how our how we should be or what, how things should smell down there. And you're right. And I think a lot of, you know, the younger generation now that things, these things are kind of coming out

and these stigmas are coming out that, you know, they're not comfortable in their own body and women are ashamed of smelling down there and, you know, habits start to form. And later on down the road, you just don't know what the implications of those habits. Yeah, absolutely. I was just reading, um, just some studies earlier and they were talking about like the, the kind of the generational gap that, you know, um, you know, forties and under, and even especially like thirties and under now, I mean, they're, um, with waxing and shaving, like you're getting close to 90, a hundred percent of people. I mean, there's, you know, I think there are two camps in that. I think there are some people that are, you know, very on the camp of being completely natural and, you know, have avoided shaving and things like that.

But on the other end of it, I think a good like 90% of women are doing it and they view hair as being gross and dirty and oily and whatnot. And they say they feel cleaner without the hair. um when in all actuality your risk of getting um you know your risk of getting infections your risk of getting viruses your risk of getting stds is higher when you don't have hair down there um you know there was showing that it is a natural barrier for a partner that may have hpv or genital warts or any of those type of viruses and um so you know the stigma that it's dirty is is basically society induced there's nothing to support that whatsoever right and it's like where did that come from and i think a lot of it's because again movie shows tv shows

comedians jokes and all that about vaginas and penises and what should be and what shouldn't be but at the end of the day you know most women are like oh my god if a guy sees me with you know a bunch of hair down there. They think it's gross. And in my opinion, and I'm going to speak for my husband, he's just like, I don't mind the hair. You know, he's like, actually, I like it. It's not bad. It's not bad at all. And I think it's our own fears of self-esteem and projection of that I'm going to be rejected because I have hair down there and men don't like that. You know, again, it's like, where did that come from? And who's to say that that's true, right? And how many men actually do like a Harry Bush, you know what I mean? But I also think even on the,

on that side with men, I mean, you know, there is, there is that perception out there and, uh, whether they actually care or not, you know, when you get fed that from society over and over and over again, um, you know, that may be creating that actual stigma out there. Um, but I think naturally, I think men don't care for the most part. Um, I would, you know, venture to guess that a lot of people like to have something that's a little bit neater and not just completely unruly. Um, but, but that may not be true either. You know, I mean, sex can be wild and passionate and having something unruly down there may add to it. I, you know, everybody, um, has their own ideas about it, but, um, yeah, I mean, I, and, you know, kind of just rounding about going back

to the original, the ladiescaping topic, you know, we can talk about this all we want and perceptions are going to change a little bit or gradually. Um, I think most women won't change their perception until they actually start having problems, um, at this point. Uh, but one thing I would like to say is that, you know, if you are going to do major ladiescaping, I, you know, I feel like there's a couple of things that, that can really help with it. Um, one, if you're going to shave, use a new razor every single time, because using old razors, you have bacteria growth, the razors get dull, you're more risk of nicking, um, you know, having ingrown hairs, things like that, that happen. Um, I don't, I'm not a fan of using any kind of lotions or creams

down there again go back to like a natural olive oil or coconut oil for um for shaving and um you know just really avoid cutting it really close you know if you can keeping keeping some hair down there is much better than shaving it all off totally i mean and that's awesome and i haven't even you tried to use coconut oil for shaving it's great yeah actually it makes very very smooth shaving oh all right yes I'm a big fan of it so awesome awesome awesome oh my gosh well Mari this was freaking amazing and if there's any last minute advice or anything else that you think that you're dying to just tell our female or male listeners I mean at the end of the day you know what's the bottom line yeah well I mean what's

bottom line. I think, as I said at the beginning, you know, I think that we should just leave it alone. You know, our vaginas are beautiful the way they are. And I think that, you know, men and women both agree that, you know, we're natural sexual beings and that we really don't need to be adding anything to that. I love it, Mari. That was beautiful. Natural sexual beings. You hear that, all you natural sexual beings out there. I hope you enjoyed today's show, Mari. It was a pleasure. It's always great to talk to you. You're so much fun and it's so much knowledge that you brought to the table today. I'm so grateful and I'm sure our listeners are too. So thank you so much. It was a blast. Thank you, Dr. Susie. This was awesome. I really, really enjoyed talking to

you. Thank you, Mari. Well, have fun. Enjoy your summer and we'll talk soon. Thank you.