In Your Pants with Dr. Susie G - Pleasure for Painful Sex in Men

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

Discovering pleasure and joy beyond penetrative sex can help alleviate genital pain in men. In my conversation with Heather Edwards, we dive into redefining sex, strategies to ease pain in and out of the bedroom, and how clinicians can make their practice more gender inclusive and positive.

You're listening to In Your Pants with Dr. Suzy G, the physiotherapist for your private, helping you get in the know down below. Hey guys, it's Dr. Suzy G here and welcome to another In Your Pants podcast. I'm so glad that you're here. Today's episode is definitely for the crotch enthusiast. We talk about how genitals are not indicative of gender orientation or what people enjoy doing sexually. We unpack terms like sex and pleasure and detangle mainstream cultural views about sexuality.

You'll learn great conversation starter exercises to break the ice with your partner so that you can dive deeper into your likes and dislikes as well as your partner's. Healthy boundaries to deepen your pleasure experience. And speaking of pleasure, coloring your favorite crotch pictures is on the top of my list. Oh yes, my guest today is also a color creative crotch enthusiast, and I'd love to formally introduce her to you. Heather Edwards has been a pelvic physical therapist since 2003, and is one of the only few ASEC certified sexuality counselors in the world.

As an artist, she has a line of coloring books, the Crotch Enthusiast Series, that blend playfulness with genital anatomy to creation, non-binary, whimsical works that are inviting and educational. As an event producer, she creates and hosts an adult sex ed event series in Asheville, North Carolina called Vino and Vulvas. You can check out the 2019 season online through vinoandvulvas.com. She also teaches professionally for Pelvic Guru on topics of transgender pelvic health and sexuality counseling. You can find her courses at PelvicGuru.com. So are you ready, my crotch crusaders? Because it's time to get this show started.

Enjoy. Heather, thank you so much for being on the show today. You are welcome. I'm very excited to be here. Likewise, because we're going to be talking about crotches, genitals, right? My favorite topics. Yay. So let's start it off by talking about how genitals on their own are not really indicative of gender orientation or what people actually enjoy doing sexually. Yeah. So this is something that comes up over and over that I feel like I'm always having to

explain this sort of thing. Because often when we think of everything being so binary, you know, it's all men's, you know, men's health and women's health and penises and vulvas and boys have penises and girls have vaginas, you know, all of that. Like it's so ingrained in the way that we think and the way that we name things that we forget that they, they're actually separate. Um, and so that's why I'm always like, like with the, like a vulva, for example, right? Like just seeing a picture of a vulva like doesn't necessarily mean that the person who has that vulva identifies as a woman that person could be a transgender man that person could identify as non-binary it doesn't really say anything about their innate sense of who they are right and so

that's why you know I don't know any way that we would possibly avoid the topic of like women's health but that's why that's always such a like no like a cluster for me you know like ah you know but there are like you know transgender women have penises and so if we're talking about like women's health you know are we talking about people who identify as women in which case we're talking about vulvas and penises right and then any sort of intersex variations in between or are we talking about like oh no I am a vagina specialist you know vulvas and vaginas in which case we should also be working with transgender men and non-binary people all inclusive all loving of all people and they're how they identify with themselves right yes yes so that's a question I

get a lot because I do a lot of transgender health and things like that and people ask me how can I make my women's health practice more inclusive you know and it's like well like you know and so it's that uncoupling of like well what is it like who is it that you want to treat like who is your audience and and you know I think often it just comes down to like being specific about you know is it genitals that you're really talking about or is it you know gender that you're really talking about because those aren't the same right I love that so gender and genitals they're not the same and we need to clarify our terms yes as far as like which one we're really talking about yeah um and then like just even kind of considering like because you know a lot

of times we have different things where it's like well men tend to do this and women tend to do this right like we men are from mars and women all of that stuff right which are all the gender roles and this was actually one of the things that like got me really started on this path because i remember in my I was in a marriage to a man and I remember like everything about our relationship like just didn't fit the standard script and it was so frustrating and because it made us both feel really like kind of like broken and weird and like what's going on you know like if you go into the doctor and they're like oh well men tend to you know be this way and women tend to I'm like, well, but wait, like, don't put that script on me because that's not how it fits.

And I don't know. It was just always frustrating. And so that's why I was kind of like, you know what? We can all just be however the heck we want. And that's okay. And we don't have to try to pretend like there's a script that we should fit along with, which kind of takes us into like the sexuality thing, right? Those genitals don't necessarily mean that anyone wants to have sex a certain way. So again, we have our like, you know, what does sex mean, right?

and often the answer is penis and vagina. I don't know if you guys can see this for those listening, but it'll be fun to go back to YouTube and watch this. You know, circle and peg. Right. And so that's so often there's a standard, you know, as like, as far as what that word means, but it means so much more than that. But then even like, it gets to the point to where like, if you see a, if you see a picture of a vulva and you were saying, and you were told that this person has sexual pain, like you would have an assumption of what that means, you know, as opposed to, you know, like having an assumption of like what sort of things that that person might enjoy doing with their body. Cause that person who has a vulva might like prefer to do anal things or

might not like vaginal penetration at all for any reason, even if they're straight, you know? And so that, you know, there's all sorts of things or, you know, it might be that they really like, you know, external stuff, or it might be that they love clip action, or it might be that they hate clip action and it's way too sensitive. Like there's so many different things. So making any assumptions as far as what people like to do with their genitals or don't want to do with their genitals at all, you know, is I think another, one of those pitfalls that we often fall into when we're so generally focused as medical providers. Right. Oh my gosh. There's so much to unpack there. Okay. Let me get, let me wrap my head around this. I have three topics

that I want to unpack. One being the topic of sex and the definition of sex. Like I think we need to unpack that a little bit and I think broaden people's perspectives of challenging some of the mainstream social cultural, like we talked a little bit about that, but I'd like to kind of dive in deeper about some of the barriers and what social cultural, you know, constructs and concepts are ingrained in our society uh one and then the second thing going to the preferences of individuals and how they like to be touched in ways they like to communicate and what pleasure means for them taking it to the clinical perspective of well then how does that change our clinical interventions, if it does, to incorporate or be respectful of

how people like to be touched or offering permission for them to communicate, hey, I don't do that, but you're telling me to masturbate. This is an example that I get often is particularly around religious and spiritual views that if you're in a monastery, you've taken vows and you're not, you know, you don't do that, but people are being told to, well, you need to masturbate to get better. Yeah. Does that make sense? So I kind of want to take it those two ways and I'm going to let you, that was a lot. I just needed to kind of like, remind me, what was your first point? The sex and unpacking definition and like social cultural barriers and constructs that are, that are formed around that? Yeah. So there's, so the thing that I like to do first is

kind of try to redefine sex as like penis and vagina, right. Or any sort of penetrative, but most often it's taking the penis and vagina thing away from it and instead focusing it on like a mutual pleasure. Right. So I really, really like to just go there first because it seems like often when people come in like if someone comes in with a say they're sent in for sexual pain regardless of what their genitals are right usually the sexual pain they're referring to is for whatever reason there's some sort of penetrative whether they're the one penetrating or they're the one being penetrated thing that they are unable to do and that's problematic for them right and so it becomes like that whole act of of what they are considering sex is like this thing that is

distressful right and it's like a thing that usually there's difficulty with conversation around it you know the communication breaks down you know there's they're feeling distance between them like the you know a sense of closeness like there's all sorts of things that are breaking down on there so and then it's like the thought that just being able to you know penetrate without pain or be penetrated without pain is the thing that is going to then fix all of that is like not really there. Right. So, so as far as, I mean, if we kind of talk about it clinically a little bit, like what I, if I have like that sort of person come in to see me, what I like to do is really separate out the, like, and this is the kind of how we break sex apart. Right. So we'll

break apart like the genital physical stuff and then we'll have like the erotic and communication stuff okay and so we like intentionally make that break so it's not just like you're going to keep trying to do painful things with your partner and hoping that it's less painful or you know something like that yeah you know so instead like we're going to work on getting your physical body feeling better so that you know you know how to you know relax when you need to and how to manage it and how to if you're starting to get triggered how to bring it back down and like all of those things that that are really important to be able to learn how to do with your body right but then what we're going to do on the other side that is completely separate from your genitals is we're

going to talk about pleasure and we're going to start like actually understanding like you know for you individually what do you like and you know and we're going to start with smells and like what do you like to look at like what sort of like if you think about like your happiest most relaxing place like what's that feel like what's it smell like what's it sound like you know and just kind of start figuring those things out like what is it that brings that sense of pleasure and joy to your body and then you know just kind of stepping up and starting like okay well what sort of touches and sensory things and you know and then working on being able to communicate those things with your partner and you know and most likely your partner needs to figure out those

things as well right because usually you know we people just get so stuck in that like well I think this person likes to do that and I think this person likes to do that and like no one's paying attention to themselves they're only focusing on the other person so it's like is you know we go back to dirty dancing right like I will hold my dance space you hold your dance space and then we can actually make this dance happen because if I'm trying to move you around and you're trying move me around we're just gonna fall right that's a great analogy right that was sorry yeah I feel like we didn't put the disclaimer on this that you know just to mark the time that we're all in like house arrest right now and a little crazy from all the world but yeah yeah but yeah so that's

kind of you know working on that like just figuring out what is it that you like and what is it that your body likes. And then from there, I move it in ways of like, you know, you can move it to genitals, right? Like what sort of things do feel good. So we're dealing with the stuff that doesn't feel good over here and working on bringing it to where it feels better. But then on the other side, we're working on all the stuff that does feel good and the things we do like to share and the things where we can provide mutual pleasure to one another. And then maybe we start adding in genitals there. So maybe if my penis feels really good, but my anus doesn't like we'll start with like penis head stuff but maybe not scrotum or we'll start with clitoris but not vagina or

you know whatever it is so that you can start breaking it apart into where it's not just like everything hurts and is horrible all the time and oh my gosh if we get anything started then I don't know how to stop because I don't want to start this thing that I can't finish but instead have those boundaries and just only move in places where it feels good you know and then how's that and you wait and then you know and then hopefully those little two worlds meet and then everything works magic I love it well it's like reconnecting with your your sexual identity like or you know you're just it's not like it's never been there it's there but it's reconnecting in a way that's just more than your parts right yeah and and I would suggest that for some people

maybe it's never been there yeah like you know like sometimes it is a reconnection but sometimes it's a, I have not ever had the opportunity to ask myself what I actually like, because I've always learned that sex was not about me and was actually something that I'm supposed to give someone. It's something that I'm supposed to be in service for. Right. So, you know, so there's a lot of that too, just as far as like, you know, just paying attention to like, well, no one's ever asked me what I wanted before. You know, no one, I've never actually paid attention to what I like or what I don't like. And I find that sometimes with people who it's like, everything just feels too performative, you know? And it's like, it's only because you're performing and

creating a service. It's not like that. There's a goal. There's an end goal. Yeah. Right. It's the fireworks, you know, we gotta wait for the, we gotta have the fireworks show. Like it's gotta happen. Well, speaking of communication, cause I hear it's what I'm hearing a lot about having a conversation about these very important topics so that we don't feel isolated or alone or like we're the only ones or shame or guilt or blame or you know all those other you know minds that arise but how would you guide a couple or couples into having these conversations particularly if they've never had these conversations before but would like to start to open up the conversation like what advice could you give people kind of so my the the easiest one is to read come as you are

right like that book is absolutely amazing by emily nagoski um and in it she's a brilliant sex educator it's super like science-based it's it is definitely and she admits to it because it's based on like research about cisgender women however from that standpoint it is so super inclusive in the way she writes it um and so I just I think that book is wonderful and she has all sorts of like of these workshops or these little like worksheets and exercises that you can do with partners for um communication one of them that I really like is that I assign for um homework really often for people like this is like you know when we're talking about breaking those two things apart. This is often the first little bit of like erotic date night homework.

And this is if I have someone who they've already expressed to me that their partner is receptive to being able to talk about this, they don't feel pressure. They don't feel like if it's something to where they have a supportive partner, this, this is exercises that I would give them. I like to make that disclaimer before I just go there with it. Um, because that's not always the case, you know right um but it's this it's a yes or a stop or go exercise right so it's super basic you can take a piece of paper and just fold it into quarters okay so you've got a piece of paper with four quarters and then on the top left you write my go buttons and then on the top left my stop buttons and then on the bottom left my go or my partner's go buttons and the bottom right my

partner stop buttons and both partners then and this is something if you have multiple partners all of you can do this right you can do one for fold that paper however many ways you need you know origami right yeah it can be six it can be eight whatever you need um but so you just kind of um then fill it out from there so i would be filling it out like what i think my go buttons are you know and sometimes that's the really hard one for people is to like oh like i can name everything that like it's a stop button for me but like what is actually a go button like sometimes that can be challenging but then you're also writing it for your partner okay so I'm like okay what are my partner's go buttons and what are their stop buttons and again there might be

one column that's super easy and one that's not but then your partner's doing the same thing for you so this might be the first time that both partners have actually considered like what are the things that their partner might be responding to positively or not responding to, you know, and then, you know, the fun is, of course, when you then, you know, that both people show them to each other, and then you're comparing them. Because, you know, some things can be like fixed really quickly there, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, she definitely likes it whenever I blow in her ear. And she's like, I hate it every time he blows in my ear, right? You know, so some things like that where it's like oh okay we really were missing that one like right it's your go but it's

your stop or there might be things that are go buttons for both partners that like they didn't realize you know right you know but um but yeah so it's just like kind of interesting to be able to to see that and to get it and to be like you know if if if there's a partner that has like higher libido and you know so one person is always like having to like no and you know like feels like they're always rejecting or turning away but then they can write down the things that are not so great and the things that are pretty good well then the partner with higher libido can be like ah all right so if i can eliminate those no's as much as possible and step up the yeses a little bit more than that can you know maybe get us a little bit more on that same playing page and you

know and it can be anything from like the way you're touched to like oh my god if i have to do the dishes after I made dinner already, you know, like, you know, just that, that shit that like makes you a little resentful. Yes. Yes. The things that were like, Oh my gosh, you're eating again. Like, I didn't, you just have a snack. At least that's for me. That's what goes on for me. I'm like, Oh, you know, but I'm glad you brought that up because that's a huge, like, it's not just what happens in the bedroom, but it's also what's happening outside of the bedroom is what I'm that's what I'm hearing, right? Like it's, it's the entire dynamic of the relationship, which is intimacy, right? Like it's, it's relationships and how we interact in them,

right? Yeah. And it's, and then with each new partner. So like, if you're dating, you might have a different list with each person you're with, right? Like, I know I had a funny one that I realized when I got together with my partner, we've been together for quite a while now but when we started dating she would do this thing to where she was like no big deal but she would like hang her like a jacket or something on the top of the door you know and I realized that like there can my I can have laundry baskets all over the floor but if I am on my bed and I can see things hung up on the tops of like it was just like I just can't like I just can't like it was this really kind of hilarious thing like I need to be able to pretend like my house is a little

bit more in order even if I know that below my visual point it's not out of sight exactly yeah so just like you know just funny things like that but once you realize them you can be like oh or like a you know look if we're getting ready for bed and then like that to me means I want to go to sleep that to me does not mean like okay let's go have sex now so right you know how can we figure it out to where it's not always like bedtime sleepy stuff you know so yes you know lots of different factors um there's some oh and also the communication thing yeah like so there's a you know being able to like so something i coach my patients on this is kind of further as we're going along this is like when we start to like actually kind of bring the two that the genitals

and the erotic stuff together we start talking about the communication before during and after sex right so before and I don't mean like like leading up to it right but I mean like a day before or hours before the more over coffee as you're discussing how you carved out time that you know evening or afternoon or something right so that it's not like part of any sort of like sexy build-up right it's a separate conversation so talking about kind of the things you want to do you know like what your boundaries are and I think about this in particular with people who have pain right because the thing that sucks so much if anything is going to be painful or if you're kind of coming out of it being painful but you're really like you're feeling pretty confident but

not super confident anymore it's like you really need to have good boundaries on it right and so if we use that context of if there's potentially something that's going to hurt okay then we need to be able to discuss like all right so I think my body's feeling up for like this and this and this tonight like these things could feel really great you know how does that sound to you like does that sound all right you know and then kind of like and I feel like I would like to be the one in charge of what we do kind of like calling the shots a little bit you know or I want you to call the shots but I want you to stay within these boundaries you know kind of figuring those out like what is your energy because sometimes like if you don't want to call the shots and then you

have to call the shots like that's a buzzkill yeah I just wanted you to like feed me grapes and do the things that feel nice to me you know I wasn't planning on this so you know kind of having those expectations ready and then also talking about like okay so and if something does start to feel not great you know how are we going to handle that right so you know one thing is like making sure that each other knows like what's it look like when things are going well you know so like okay if I am enjoying myself I'm probably going to be like closing my eyes or you know breathing this way making these sounds like these are all very good things right and then if I know that I've already told my partner that that I'm really going to make sure that I'm giving those

positive affirmation things to them so that they can just kind of get that as a constant they don't are you okay how about this how about this how about this because it's not fun either right yeah and so you know and then like if something doesn't feel good like how are we going to do like a quick pause or like give me just a second or you know hey can we do something else or always kind of having like a an easy pivot go-to sort of activity that you can do so it's not like a you know red flag start going off and then we have to stop everything and you know end up in tears or something you know so it's just kind of like how can we just shift and move the experience and know that like at some point there's probably going to be something that we need to adjust or move and

and like that's okay you know and then being able to talk about it afterwards like hey that went really well when we did this and this but this part maybe it was a little frustrating and later you know like maybe we could do it differently next time and just kind of allowing each other that whole experience. And then you can move into it and do either better the next time, the same. I don't know if better is the right word, but, you know, improve your communication, you know, kind of smooth out the rough spots with it. That's right. Well, and that's great because I think that's important, like a key point of like just awareness of your own needs, but also considering the needs of your partner. And like you said earlier in the conversation of finding

that interpersonal space where that safe dialogue can happen where you're both trusting and respecting of one another as individuals but then coming together no pun intended uh to right I know the puns it's like endless here um but you know what I mean like you're kind of you're dancing together in this interpersonal space of two worlds two worlds uniting into not into one but sharing a space that is a vulnerable space for a lot of us and if you don't have that trust component or you don't feel like you can be yourself yeah you know to open up that way or to receive or give then that that might be a barrier or a roadblock yeah for sure they're so like there's there i think we could talk for four hours about

that statement you just made right there you know because like it is like that the the thing of and that's something that I feel like I often have to like teach people or give little like step-by-step lessons is how to receive right like the ability to receive pleasure from another person without feeling like you need to be doing something in return it can be really really hard for people, you know, but then on the flip side of that, of course, is like, if, you know, if we use the example of oral sex, which is, you know, a very giver receiver sort of thing. And so, you know, if someone is receiving oral sex, but they are concerned that maybe it seems like they're being lazy or just laying there or not like responding enough or not being

enthusiastic enough or not making their body do the same thing, or maybe, oh my gosh, did I take a shower from recently, you know, or whatever the heck it is, like all of those things block you from actually being able to enjoy the experience. Right. You know, but on the flip side, if you are the one that is performing oral sex, like all you want to do is see your partner that you're performing oral sex on, like just be enjoying the heck out of themselves and receiving that and feeling all the good energy and skills and crazy mad techniques that you're doing. Right. Like, that's what you're hoping as a, as the one who's performing that. So if you can like, kind of feel that as a receiver and be like, all right, I'm just going to like be in my body and

experience all this good stuff and block the rest of that crap out, you know, and not feel like I have to like be petting someone's head or rubbing their shoulder or doing something to feel connected. You know, my connection is my connection to my body. It's not my physical connection to that person so oh my gosh that was awesome that was beautifully said I mean right up there I mean exactly you hit the nail on the head there it's it's the stories that we that our mind tells us the story the narrative we get wrapped up in robs us from the pure the sensory experience yeah we're that we're having it like literally it adds a burden onto that experience when it's really not necessary.

Although I'm sure very normal. So I don't, I'm not here to say like, oh, just because we're thinking that way, there's something wrong with us or something like that. No, not at all. Because it happens to all of us. And not just in the bedroom, but outside of the bedroom. There's so much story that goes on behind

this, that or another, right? And that's like all those layers of complication. But if instead, and that's why I like the definition of sex as you know mutual pleasure you know like that's it so if we can always back it down to like are we creating a pleasurable you know joyful experience together like you know like that's always the underlying question so if like you're sitting there thinking like you know this whole time well they seem like they're really enjoying themselves so I need to act like I'm enjoying this too like that's that's no fun you know and then if you're a really good actor with it and

you really make them think then you've just taught them that you like that and then it's you know and then you have to get out of that and then it feels like a lie by saying oh actually that's not this thing that I like I know it seems like that but you know like right right you never fake right I shouldn't say sometimes you can like stretch the truth a little bit for dramatic effect if you want to, but not as a general rule. You don't want to get in the habit of faking. Yeah, exactly. Right, right. Good point. Good point. Good point. Shift, right. Shift to something else that is more authentically enjoyable. That's awesome. Oh my gosh. Well, how, okay. So not to switch gears here abruptly, but it's all

in the same, I think, topic that we're talking about is how do we, how do we as clinicians, So for all the clinicians that are listening who are helping people with sexual issues and their health and educating and pain and et cetera, et cetera, how can we take what we just talked about? Because those are important conversations to have for clinicians. Because as a pelvic therapist, when I was learning pelvic therapy, as you said earlier, it's women's health. and then I started to shift towards working with male bodies and then realizing already the stigma around or the labels that we have around certain things but as far as like what I was taught it was like we do things this way this is how you do the exam this is the treatment etc etc and as I progressed through my learning and education working with people over several

years I realized like first of all there's no one size fits all but secondly like we as clinicians are so used to doing stuff to people and I'm afraid we've missed a boat of let's ask these questions of how people want like the recommendations we're making and the treatment techniques that we're using you know are they really in alignment with what that individual wants and needs and expects like because they come in with expectations of please help me and they're you know whatever you suggest I'm gonna do you're the doctor right that sort of can we maybe unpack that a little bit and we can totally loop in your the masturbation thing there too of that like suggestion of oh well you should be masturbating and things like that okay so yeah

So, so I, I, I feel like it's important for us as clinicians to take away our agenda, right. Which is, is sometimes hard because especially there's so many different examples of this, but one, I think that we don't think of as often is like when we're super like, you know, girl power and we're like, you know, sex positive and all this stuff like that might not be in any sort of alignment with that person who's sitting there in front of us, you know? And that's just fine. You know, so like our therapeutic goals don't need to go beyond necessarily what theirs are. No, I'm not saying we can't educate them to help them see a little bit more of what maybe fits with them. Um, but like, as an example, like if you have someone who is a very feminine presenting

person, but has told you that they identify as non-binary and you're doing all this big girl power about the vagina and the clitoris and all of that stuff, that's going to feel super like gender dysphoric and funky and weird to someone. Right. You know, even though like, it's really cool to learn about the whole structure of the clitoris and yay, you know, and all of that. But if we're doing that in a way that is, it's like, yeah, sister, we're on the same team sort of stuff, you know, with some people, that's great. With some people, that's like, oh, I am never going back to that person again, because that was so uncomfortable. I felt completely unseen, you know, like there was, they didn't get me at all, you know, so, you know, kind of examples like that. But then like, you know, if someone had, because I'll ask about like self pleasuring, I usually don't use the masturbation word until, you know, a little further. we should probably throw in here too that we're both in North Carolina right now in Asheville

right so we definitely have some maybe contextual things that are maybe a little bit different than if we were practicing in California or something right um but yeah definitely with like masturbation like as as I talk to someone about what their their their goals for sexuality are or sometimes I'll just throw out like you know as far as you know sex with sexuality and I'll usually say when I ask you about sexuality I'm not actually asking about like your relationship status you know because a lot of times that's how people hear that question you know oh no my husband died right is the question to how is your sexual function happening you know like and so like trying to kind of get away from that and being like you know do you have any concerns about

your you know or about any sexual changes you've had either with sensation or your ability to feel aroused or your ability to feel lubricated or any of those things, you know? Um, and as you know, and then like, as they're going on with it, it might be that they identify all sorts of things that you would consider issues. Right. But then I'll say like, and do these things, are they problematic for you? Like, is this distressful for you at all? Oh no, it's fine. It's not a problem. Okay. You know? And then maybe I would educate them to be like, okay, so, so, you know, some of those things are things that physical therapy can help with. So if at any point that is on your goal or something that you would like to talk about, we absolutely can talk about it. But, you know, that's only up to you. I just want to make sure that you understand, you know, what sort of things are available because you don't want them just to think that, you know, oh, well, no one can help me with this.

right so but you also don't want to push them into trying to figure out something that they're not in the space to to go there with right so and with masturbation like I like often with masturbation I if someone says that they don't masturbate right and you know I'm looking for their facials on it you know if it's like a you know or if it's just like no not really you know then sometimes i'll you know go there like a little gently as we're like talking about things it's like and just so you know like you know things like self-stimulation um are it's kind of like taking your vulva you know of course or penis right you know it's taking your genitals for a job you know it's getting that blood flow going it's you know it's kind of seeing how

everything works it's you know and all of the thing you can get your pelvic floor muscles working during it you know there's all sorts of good physiological stuff that can happen with it however I would only recommend that if you're comfortable and if that is something that you want more of in your life right you know so it's kind of and sometimes they'll be like oh well yeah I would actually love an excuse to go get a go to va va boom and get a new vibrator or something right you know so like for those patients then what I'm doing is like I'm giving them the permission and then also just kind of like a little shove like yeah that would be a good idea like that you know that's certainly a way that we can practice you know that you can start learning

more about your body um so that we can kind of get there faster because if you can give me more feedback on what's going on for you right then great um but yeah but if that's something that they're not interested in then i'm not ever going to even start to suggest that they should because then it just becomes a place of like shame and disgust and like and you don't want them attaching anything you're trying to tell them with things that they feel are like morally wrong or anything like that so right oh those are all really awesome and very important key points that you just brought up uh as far as their interaction again of of a relationship between a practitioner and another person and and just really being mindful of are you really um you know serving that person

in the way that they want to be helped and i think that's really important so thank you so much for bringing that up um and i was gonna say va va voom was a shameless plug for the best i kid you not i mean i come from chicago and i've been to many sex shops and stuff out there but it does not compare to what Asheville, this little town of Asheville has, Ba Ba Boom. Excellent. Amazing shop. Yeah. And you can get stuff from them online. And everyone that works there is so amazing. That's like, I love sending my patients there. Cause I'm always like, make sure you talk to someone. Don't just like, like intentionally talk to someone like, and so I've even like written down scripts for people, like walk into Ba Ba Boom,

find someone who works there and say heather sent me and i need this and they will take it from there i love it i love it use your resources yes yes great that's awesome that's so awesome speaking of resources you have a couple of resources yourself well actually a lot of things that you are creating um do you have your crotch coloring books i do have my crotch coloring books and there's something extra exciting i'll show you so you already have one of them right do you have the first one i do i have one you have yeah important parts the coloring book for the crotch enthusiast in it you get to learn how to draw your own custom crotch and there's all sorts of external genitals of all sorts of non-binary all sorts of crazy stuff in there so hey heather real

quick can you define non-binary for those that don't know necessarily what that means yes sorry so non-binary so when we talk about gender like a crazy little table here so we've got like male and female then cisgender on top of that would mean like if you were born and the doctor said this is a girl and then you grew up feeling like yes I am a girl I am a woman then you would be cisgender right if you were born and the doctor said this is a boy and you grew up saying I'm a girl then you would be transgender right but both of those are kind of either like you know male or female cisgender or transgender and then non-binary is kind of either like you feel like a little bit of both or you feel like neither so it's kind of just like like you know

male terms aren't really right for me female terms aren't really right for me I'm just somewhere in the middle um genderqueer is sometimes a term people use for it too but yeah so yeah so anyway but when I say non-binary I mean like I'm not everything is not either penis or vagina there's all sorts of shades of in between when we talk about anatomy so that's my first one so it's all the external anatomy and then my one that just came out last week I don't I don't even have my like official copy so this is the one that still says like sample not for resale oh okay I totally get it oh we get first steps here right this one's called the inside story and so instead of just being the um external anatomy and it's funny so I've

got all sorts of internal stuff too let's see so here's this is like a period one can you see section view where you can see organs but then again it'll show people who've had like you know hysterectomies or um penile prostheses implanted or diva cups or strap-ons or all sorts of different things there's also pelvic floor ones here's like a pelvic floor one oh love it i love it thanks yeah so and then i also have um a big anatomy educational section at the end and stuff so you get like all the terms and you know all the images and things like that so yeah the best one that just came out that has a whole lot more educational stuff on it and then we'll link that in the show notes for sure cool and then um there's another one that i actually

of coming out like maybe in a week or two because you know i've been home a lot and um so it will be called ways to play and so it's all sorts of like it's external genitalia again but it's all sorts of like fun imaginative playful ways that you can reimagine your body like here's like a like goddess i love that you guys whoever's listening you all have to watch the youtube uh show and tell version this one is the the pussy pussy the pussy pussy you're speaking my language heather yeah and this one is like a drag queen penis oh yeah so there's just they're all sorts of They're, they're ones that are much more fun. Yeah. It's kind of this book. That's so great. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. Like I said, we'll,

we'll link all of those to the podcast show notes so people can get them and color away and then share and tag your color, your, your, you know, your pages with Heather. Yes. Heather. Yeah. My Instagram is at Heather Edwards creations and you can tag that and yeah. and then I also do um anatomy an anatomy library and so if you are like a sex educator or a pelvic health provider and you need pictures that I have seven different varieties of crotches and they have different sorts of labels and different like some of them are in like rainbow palettes and some

of them are in flesh tones and some of them are black and white we've got pubes and no pubes you know all sorts of different varieties um but if you need some things like that you can let me know too. And I've got a library that you can access. So that's awesome. And then you also do vinos and vulvas. So can you talk to us about that and what, you know, what's going on since we can't get together in person for them? Um, what you've been doing with that, you know? Yeah. I can't talk much about that yet. Cause I'm not really sure right now, honestly. So understandable right so vino and vulvas is a live events that i have been doing suzy has been one of my guests at vino and vulvas which has been fun it's an honor thank you but it's um a sex ed in a

bar event where it's like medical professionals mental health professionals and then also we get like burlesque dancers and drag queens and things up on stage with us too and we talk about a big gamut of like adult sex ed sort of stuff um yeah it's in a bar you can hang out it's it's lots of fun and we've been doing it since 2015 and it's it's like my favorite thing to do it's just so much fun and and i love that it's a live event one of the things that now that we're not able to gather in groups that you know when everyone's you know people are oh are you going to do it online are you going to do this and i'm just like feeling it out and so much of it it's the vibe and it's the being there with all of these other people and seeing this whole community of who's

there of like you know all the queer people all the not queer people the guys the girls the you know all the ages all the you know just this big fun collection of people who have all got together to watch a topic of like beer and buttholes or something you know like it's just I love it and I haven't not yet figured out like like what I'm gonna do as far as in this time where we can't do live stuff yet. I'm sure I'm going to come up with something. Um, right now I'm just focusing a little bit more on my coloring books because you know, everyone needs something to color when they're at home. Um, but yeah, I'm sure it will, it'll morph into something and it'll get there. But if anyone wants to watch, I've got a season 2019, um, is available and I have the first

episode so far of 2020, but then I'll download the second one, but I'm probably going to switch those around so they're just individual purposes or you know individual events to watch because I'm not going to have a 2020 season you know which sucks I was all excited for that I know um but yeah so you can get on if you go to vino and vulvas.com and you go to online event event access you can binge watch vino and vulvas if you want so way better than netflix trust me way better than netflix trust me okay awesome well how else can our listeners and viewers reach out to you if they have questions or want to connect with you i know you have a couple of instagram handles we mentioned some of those but any other ways that you'd like to shout

out now yeah i'm on anyone can email me at info at heatheredwardscreations.com or at vino and Volvas, uh, Bino and Volvas at gmail.com. Bino and Volvas, Volvas.com. You can get there. Um, yeah. And then on Instagram, you can find me at, at Bino and Volvas or at Heather Edwards creations. Those are probably the easiest. That's great. Awesome. Well, Heather, thank you so much for a very awesome and fun conversation talking about crotches and genitals and everything in between all the good stuff yeah thank you so much for being here you're welcome thanks so much for having me suzy it was a great time and to all our listeners and viewers out there thank you so much for being here with us as always and loving wellness for your pelvis this is dr suzy g

signing off until next time my friends thanks for listening to today's episode be sure to head on over to drsuzyg.com where you can get more information show notes and related articles on today's topic. Also, if you like what you're hearing, head on over to iTunes, subscribe to the podcast, and leave us a rating and review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

Thanks again.