In Your Pants with Dr. Susie G - Sex Surrogate Partner Therapy

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

Today, we're diving into the world of Surrogate Partner Therapy with our guest Travis Sigley. We delve into the essence of Surrogate Partner Therapy, uncover what it entails, who can benefit, and how to approach this nuanced subject within relationships. Travis will also share invaluable insights on self-care in the realm of sexuality and navigating alternatives when access to a surrogate partner therapist isn't available. So, join us as we navigate this conversation, learning from Travis's wealth of experience and dedication to fostering healthier, more fulfilling connections in the world of intimacy and sexuality. About Travis Sigley Travis Sigley is a passionate human who cares deeply about education, care, accountability, mental/physical/emotional health, and community. They have been working in the intimacy and sexuality field for 15 years. Their first business was Cuddle Therapy, started in San Francisco as the first known professional cuddling service. Through many years and iterations since, their newest venture is in Surrogate Partner Therapy, where they are currently in the final stages of certification via mentorship. Connect with Travis at travis.sigley [at] gmail.com Video Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 2:08 What is surrogate partner therapy? 03:20 How does surrogate partner therapy work? Here's what you can expect. 06:03 Difference between surrogate partner therapy and sex work 07:18 Who could benefit from surrogate partner therapy? 09:00 How to find a surrogate partner therapist 09:54 Approaching sexual intimacy challenges as part of self-care 13:05 Communication with a partner around surrogate partner therapy 15:55 Disclosure of surrogate partner therapy to a partner 18:21 Travis's personal inspiration to become a surrogate partner therapist 22:15 Connect with Travis Sigley RESOURCES: Surrogate Partner Collective: https://www.surrogatepartnercollective.org/ Embrace Surrogate Partner Therapy Resource Group: https://www.embracespt.org/ International Professional Surrogate Association: https://www.surrogatetherapy.org/what-is-surrogate-partner-therapy Free sex and pelvic pain resources https://drsusieg.com/resources Online Pelvic Pain Relief Program for Men https://drsusieg.com/pelvic-pain-in-men-online-program CONNECT WITH ME (DR. SUSIE) AND TEAM: Website: https://drsusieg.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.susieg/ and https://www.instagram.com/lainie_ot/ Disclaimer: This information is not intended to substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of a healthcare professional with any questions you may have regarding treatment, medications/supplements, or any medical diagnoses. This information is intended for educational purposes only and is in no way to substitute the advice of a licensed healthcare professional. #SurrogatePartnerTherapy #SexualHealing #IntimacyCoaching #IntimacySupport #SurrogateTherapist #SexTherapy #SexualHealth #podcast #inyourpants #spotify #youtube #asheville #NC

on this episode they can have more physical and sexual intimacy but that's not a requirement that is a thing that in you know partnerships is a thing that people want to experience you're listening to the in your pants podcast i'm your host dr suzy gronski your penis friendly pelvic health physical therapist sex counselor and educator helping you get in the know down below today we're diving into the world of surrogate partner therapy with our guest travis sigley travis is a passionate human who cares deeply about education care accountability mental physical emotional health and community they have been working in the intimacy and sexuality field for 15 years. Their first business was cuddle therapy started in San Francisco as the first

known professional cuddling service. Through many years and iterations since, their newest venture is in surrogate partner therapy, where they are currently in the final stages of certification via mentorship. We delve into the essence of surrogate partner therapy, uncover what it entails, who can benefit, and how to approach this nuanced subject within relationships. Travis will also share invaluable insights on self-care in the realm of sexuality and navigating alternatives when access to a surrogate partner therapist isn't available. So join us as we navigate this conversation, learning from Travis's wealth of experience and dedication to fostering healthier, more fulfilling connections in the world of intimacy

and sexuality. Hi, Travis. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Of course. So let's dive right in. Talk to us. Tell us what surrogate partner therapy is. Sure. Surrogate partner therapy has been around for a few decades, but very quietly so. It is there's a bit of a kind of like growing culture of it now basically the surrogate partners work with therapists or clinicians and their clients as a surrogate like a stand-in partner for their clients to do some of the hands-on practice or kind of like relational practice that one might have in a partnership but that's inappropriate for a therapist to have with their client you know involves touch involves connection involves intimacy building and

and yeah kind of giving people who are in sex therapy or relationship therapy or having a lot of challenges somewhere to go practice these skills where a lot of people they are struggling with some things that could be sorted out in relationship but the things that they're struggling with kind of prevent them from being in a relationship so it's this kind of cyclical thing and there's just like no outlet to be able to like enter the world and try um being close and and and community with with people and partners um so that's kind of the the basis of kind of what it is so how does surrogate partner therapy work what should people expect yeah it's um it can be a very broad range of things honestly um it's basically the therapist

and the client um kind of create some goals for what it is that they're they're looking to achieve and and surrogate partner comes in and has uh we have our sessions based on the needs uh of attaining those goals um so whether it be learning how to feel comfortable being vulnerable or learning how to like feel comfortable sharing touch um and surrogate partners can have a whole range of of specialties and things they want to work with and you know we have a lot of training around um gender sexuality uh mental health uh you know there's a swath of what we are prepared to experience generally um and then with each each individual they kind of get a catered experience but a lot of it is um a lot of this is very like presence-based um touch-based like

there's a lot of like dropping into one's body and feeling safe in one's body and feeling safe to be vulnerable and and intimate with another person and to kind of get some of those experiences it can have more physical and sexual intimacy but that's not a requirement that is a thing that in you know partnerships is a thing that people want to experience and again if it's in service to their goals and it's something that can't happen and not all surrogate partners do anything some and just don't kiss or have any sexual contact with your clients and that's something kind of going in you navigate and sort out but really is a kind of a practice relationship so thinking about how you like spend time laying around on the couch and cuddling and talking about life and

things or like going out on a date and being social or you know normally it's it's something contained into the session space and really focused on their present needs usually there's a lot of need for um i don't know unfortunately this personal development piece um and in all this also i'm currently a surrogate partner in training like i'm not excuse me um yeah currently i'm a surrogate partner in training uh so i just want to name that also and say that there's a lot that i'm speaking to based on the people who have taught me um and my own experiences in the in this field in other departments um but i'd sort of preface that also so these are the things that i'm aware of and finding my own especially what my what my niche will be that's uh still

a discovery can you delineate for us the difference between surrogate partner therapy and sex work sure um generally the the biggest distinction and what makes this what it is and also makes it completely and fully legal even if there's sexual contact is that it's in this triadic model so you're in a therapeutic setting with your client that also involves another person that is there who is assisting in the in the growth process that is really the thing that makes it you know you're working with a licensed clinician or therapist and you're from supporting them in moving through their therapeutic process and that is not to say that sex work is not therapeutic on its own um and you know you can

you could call surrogate partner therapy in the umbrella of sex work but there's a lot of legal sex work and so this could be one of them um so it's it's really the thing that i wouldn't separate them and compare them it'd be more like what is surrogate partner therapy and it's in that triadic model. That's the very distinct difference. Yeah. Thank you. So who could benefit from surrogate partner therapy? Good question. There, I would say any number of people with any number of challenges, like originally a lot of it was used for like sexual dysfunction and challenge in male body people um but it has definitely grown far uh far from that in the many years and anyone who really has challenged either like feeling connection or maintaining relationships

when they want to when they want to maintain relationships or um feeling safe in intimate spaces or um those who you know there's a lot of like sexual relational social trauma um and And really, it's about, you know, ideally, you are already seeing a therapist for a while, and you have some sort of rapport and relationship. And it's something that they could bring to the therapist as an idea, like, hey, I've heard of this, or if they already know, then, you know, they can engage with that the therapist themselves, or, or the client can bring it to the therapist, like, hey, I'd like to talk about this. and so there's certainly like ways to access more communication about it um if you feel like i could use some extra support with somebody who is just like loving and caring and judge non-judgmental and just won't criticize my needs or my sexuality or my lack of needs you know whatever it is um that i think and which you know is a lot of us um you know there are moments in my life like wow this could have been really nice in my earlier years of kind of like self-discovery

and moving through a lot of my own challenges yeah so where does someone look for a surrogate partner therapist um I would say um they're the surrogate partner collective uh is the place that I did my training I believe it's the only U.S. based training that that there is um and so just going to their website um i'm not sure exactly what it is like i'll put it in the show notes yeah i'll make sure to link the resource perfect yeah but surrogate partner collective is the place where they're very um very receptive very responsive and very happy to um share information and i believe they also have a resource list of different surrogate partners um so that would be my first go, or, you know, at the end of this, you'll have my contact information and feel free

to reach out to me as well. Thank you, Travis. On that note, what if there isn't access to a surrogate partner in someone's area? How might one approach intimacy, sexuality challenges, etc. as part of their own self-care yeah i would say there's a number of things the therapy on in and of itself is really useful even outside of you know the extension of having a surrogate partner involved um and that is a little more accessible because insurance many insurances can cover therapy um that does not is not the case with surrogate partner therapy currently um and again like there are not a whole bunch of us so it can be just hard to to divide us in general um and in general just one's relationship with um like same and and like kind of a negative self-talk like

that's a lot of what people are challenged by like oh i'm doing something wrong or i'm not good enough for this or i'm unlovable there's all these you know kind of very classic strangely ways in we view ourselves and our sexuality and our intimate relationships um and really just there's nothing wrong with you or where you're at and you could be going through some ptsd spirals from sexual trauma i've been there myself um and uh just knowing that that's right where you're at right now and trying to take any more pressure off of yourself knowing there's enough there already um and just hopefully just being up being as comfortable as you can be in the depths of those discomforts and pains um and seeking outside resourcing you know whether it's therapist

or friends or your community just someone to talk to and just being able to be really gracious and gentle with yourself you know that's really so much of what i'm offering my clients like they're coming and it's like you're really not having a good time again i work outside of circuit partner world as well i'm used to seeing clients in this space and and a lot of it is like you're fine there's absolutely nothing wrong here like you're challenged right now and i and like i will definitely acknowledge that and work with that and i'm in no way don't diminish your feelings or hide from them but um just try and take the shame out of the fact that you're experiencing them it's a pretty pretty powerful experience if you know if one's capable of getting there it's

it's long it's a long journey still on it myself yeah just layers and layers of this what a positive uplifting message really to hear we we all need to hear this message of being gentle with ourselves compassionate towards ourselves we are human after all and are part of this human experience collectively individually and yeah the message of love you know loving ourselves and loving loving each other so thank you thank you for sharing if someone is interested in surrogate partner therapy but they're part they're partnered and their partner let's say their partner how might that person broach the topic or communicate this idea or their desire to work with the surrogate partner

therapist um good question traditionally surrogate partner therapy um was only for single people um i think that that is a little bit outdated there's a lot of support that can be had um and in relationships um there's a lot of non-monogamy culture in many different places there's a lot of like okay there's an understanding of a therapeutic relationship outside of this and we still have this monogamous relationship but can get support in other ways and again there can be boundaries doesn't have to be any sexual touch there doesn't have to be any intimacy on up front but just you know helping your partner come out of their shell a little bit and like express their emotions and and the fears that they have and be more vulnerable those are all

things that can be supportive um so i think just coming uh to one's partner around the fact that you're interested in this and you want to talk about it and you know you can talk to their therapist or a surrogate partner themselves to get personal guidance um but i think a lot of it is is just understanding like i want you partner of mine in this relationship to have your needs met and understood also through this and i i feel like i i want more support and help for this relationship um to show up and be a better partner for you and to be a better just like more more uh connected or more like sure of myself or more confident in in like your love for me like there's whatever kind of the things that are up and the challenges in the relationship

you know knowing that seeing the surrogate partner is in service to that relationship in service to that person being in relationship and knowing they just want extra support um so that's the thing to to kind of bring into it and and again like i think having more of an individualized conversation with a therapist or surrogate partner would be really really helpful but initially kind of framing your ideas around it as well like this is for us you know this is for how I can be better here and how I can do my own growth and do my own work so you don't have to all the time you know just relationships are really mutually growth inspiring but sometimes you need a little break and work on that with other people in your life

and other resources. Do you generally suggest that the individual who is interested in surrogate partner therapy confide or let their partner know that they are going to participate in that therapy or is it okay to not disclose the therapeutic process that you're about to embark on to your partner I guess how do you navigate that that sounds like a very challenging you know to perhaps navigate because I know some sex therapists have a no secrets policy and things like that so how yeah can you talk to us about that yeah I mean we're getting into some pretty interesting layers of ethics around all of this you know and my personal philosophy around this is very much a um, uh, just transparency, being able to be transparent around what's going on in the

process. And especially if you're going to be seeing a surrogate partner in a way that involves more, um, sexual health risk, absolutely. You need to inform your, your partner, um, about your, your work there. And, and in general, you know, I think being able to be, um, open and honest with one's partner about your process of learning and growing in a relationship is pretty pretty pivotal you know they're they're very much directly involved in it and you know allow them to support you through it and if they can't support you through it then that's something they get through together on your own like if your partner can't support you in trying to do better that in and of itself is something to look at and that's kind of the beauty of transparency and vulnerability

in relationship you get to see get a real honest read of what each other's capacities are and availabilities are in relationship when some of your baseline needs for growth and healing are not acceptable to your partner that's that's that's a conversation that should be had um and something to more deeply look at and like well if i can't get it outside is it okay if we do it here like i need some more support and can you provide that for example yeah definitely sounds like a healthy way of approaching one's own needs, but also maintaining integrity of the relationship and one's values around your own individual values, but also perhaps your relational values as well. So Travis, what has inspired you to do this work? Um, great question. Thanks for asking.

I there's many many things uh you know I have my own history with sexual trauma um I lost my virginian in its own like traumatic experience and there's been layers and layers of of um how that uh kind of like restoration journey of my own has gone and the support I've received with people in my life for so so many years and that's a lot of why I got into this field to begin with um and and ultimately you know i i really love um caring for people and helping provide their needs for intimacy and closeness and touch and connection so that things don't get so wild and like uncontrollable um and that's often how a lot of you know sexual assault scenarios happen like people are just lonely and isolated and like

need some sort of expression and they'll kind of just like mask the vulnerable steps forward and just enter someone's space because they have that need and it can you know it can build up to um a really big problems for a lot of a lot of people so one unlike the preventative um aspects of sexual harm and and understanding that every human has needs and help make those needs help help those needs come to fruition and also provide a space for people who have already experienced sexual harm to to know that that's not all intimacy it's not all sexual expression it can feel like that and there's a lot of patterns that can come up from that and that really keep people at an arm's length um and real like intimacy and trust and and like being able to work as a team

in partnership can be very inaccessible um and and that can be very lonely and isolating and for some people that's what they want like i'm i love my life on my own like it's a whole you know there's many many expressions of how one can do life but for those that really want to be close and want to feel affection and want to feel mutual care and don't have access to it or you know my And there's, there are so many ways and get in the way of us being able to have that as it was in my own life. And I really think I just pull from the inspiration of how I was cared for and how I was helped and supported along the way.

And it's a thing that I, at this point, just have so much experience, like 15 years at this point in this field and want to do it a little deeper and a little longer. And, you know, my surrogate relationships are a few months to many months long. and you know weekly um or just more regular and so having a more consistent way of being able to show up and support um for someone's well-being that's that's feels a lot more gratifying for me personally and and also like you know the the work i've been doing for so long and the way that i want to set up and support people like oh there's another avenue to to do it in a different way and so that's exciting thank you for sharing your journey with us travis and your experiences

your compassion and your heart truly permeate through this this computer through your words you really tell how deeply connected you are and passionate you are with with this work and and your experiences have really shaped that journey and continue as you mentioned earlier that is continuing to evolve and it's an ongoing process of of life and doing life in many different ways so if someone wanted to connect with you how could they do that yeah I'm always open to emails from anyone and everyone um so just emailing me is the easiest way to be in direct contact travis.sigley at gmail.com it's just my name um and yeah and please be patient uh communication is not always the easiest but it is it is available yeah from from people i haven't met yet but i'm

very excited to make contact yeah so i welcome it great wonderful travis well thank you again for being on the show and to all of our listeners and viewers out there. As always, in loving wellness for your pelvis, this is Dr. Susie G. Until next time. Thanks for listening to today's episode. Be sure to visit my website, drsusieg.com for show notes and related resources on today's topic. If you like what you're hearing, head on over to YouTube and subscribe to my channel. on my youtube channel you'll find content related to sex pelvic health and expert interviews for men if you got a question or a topic that you'd like me to answer on my channel be sure to type it in the comment box below