In Your Pants with Dr. Susie G - Shelby Hadden - Tightly Wound the Documentary Film

Episode Date: August 9, 2017

Susie is joined by Shelby Hadden, a writer, speaker, and documentary filmmaker whose work explores issues of gender and identity. They discuss Shelby's personal story as well as her current film, Tightly Wound, is a short animated film about her personal experience with chronic pelvic pain, based on her essay that was published in BUST Magazine.  Thanks for listening! http://drsusieg.com/  

You're listening to In Your Pants with Dr. Susie G, the physiotherapist for your privates, helping you get in the know down below. Today, Susie welcomes Shelby Hayden, a writer, speaker, and documentary filmmaker whose work explores issues of gender and identity. All right. Hey, Shelby. Welcome to the show. I'm so glad that you're here and you're able to kind of grace us with your presence.

It's wonderful having you on the show. Well, thanks so much for having me. So I know you've been doing a lot of wonderful things with your documentary and you have such a very powerful message that you're sending out to, you know, both women and men, I feel like. So tell us a little bit about, you know, when did you first start to realize that things down below weren't quite right? Sure. I was 14 and started my period. And when I tried using a tampon, I felt like I was just hitting a wall. Like I didn't have a hole down there to put it into. And it was so painful, the worst pain I had ever experienced. So for a lot of years, I just, you know, kind of suffered in silence and didn't know what i had every time i went to the doctor people said i

was you know anatomically perfect down there so it took a while to find answers and you know talking about answers because i know a lot of women are you know who experience a very similar um situations and how was you know where did you know um to search for answers like how was your experience like? And, you know, was it beneficial? Was it harmful? I mean, tell us a little bit about that and how you kind of went about helping yourself. So I think I tried to ignore it for a few years because I was so afraid of it. And my mother, who is my best friend and also a registered nurse, kept telling me that nothing was wrong with me and I just needed to figure out the right angle or the right amount of Vaseline and it wasn't until I was in college I saw the

term vaginismus in a textbook and it all clicked I was like this is what happens to me I have because I don't have pain all the time it's just when I try to insert something and so I had that word in the back of my head and you know in college I started my search of trying to find answers and treatment because I'm a very active person so not being able to use a tampon it's difficult when you're trying to run a half marathon or in high school I ran cross country and we had very skimpy uniforms and you know I couldn't plan pool parties or beach trips because if I didn't know exactly when my period was going to come, I couldn't plan on wearing a bathing suit in public. And then, of course, I wanted to eventually be able to be sexual and explore

that part of myself. And was it, you know, talking about the sexual experience, was, you know, having vaginismus, and I have to actually ask you, what textbook, I mean, how did this textbook come to your knowledge and this word? Tell me a little bit about that. Um, I kind of happened to take this human sexuality course my freshman year of college, just because it was the only elective that fit into my schedule. It was not my first choice, especially because sex was something I was kind of afraid of and intimidated me because I wasn't sure if I was ever going to be able to do it but I ended up taking this class and I remember when I signed up for it I just thought well maybe it'll help some of my attitudes towards sex

maybe it'll make it seem less scary and you know eventually I can figure out what's going on down there and then I'll be able to do it and that's wonderful it's like a self-exploration I think thought came came about and you tell us a little about so when you did seek out help for what was going on what what was your experience like seeing all these practitioners and different providers and wellness health care providers can you talk about about your experience and your journey up until now yeah it was so frustrating I went to probably a dozen doctors and had a lot of negative experiences a lot of physicians dismissed my pain told me it was all in my head told me I must have repressed sexual trauma and then I also like some doctors refused to examine me

because I wasn't sexually active which I still to this day think is really crazy then I got some bad advice from well-intentioned doctors like some doctors who knew about dilators they're like well the dilators i can prescribe you would be the smallest one is still bigger than a tampon so why don't you find the skinniest candles that you can and insert those and then the next doctor was like well maybe you should insert those while you're on your period because you'll be naturally lubricated that way um so wait i have to i have to chime in a little bit here so yeah go back a candle so someone so a doctor actually so I'm wrapping my head around this right so I'm like hmm so they they actually said insert a candle stick a candle yes yeah and

my mom I mean my mom eventually became a huge advocate for my health and trying to find answers and so she searched around town looking for the skinniest tiniest little candles she finally found some at Hobby Lobby and even those I was just like I can't do it they won't go in it hurts so bad and so then later when I spoke to another doctor and told her that I had been trying that she suggested that i do it on my period only and what was the result of all that like that exploration how did that oh i didn't get yeah i didn't get anywhere with that i saw no progress and it was just very frustrating and demoralizing and um you know because i tried so hard and wasn't seeing anything change right so going you know you said the word demoralizing which is very powerful

how did you know having vaginismus affect your you know your self-image and sexuality as a woman you know like sexuality in terms of confidence and assertiveness and how you really go about your day in a world you know where lots of women i think are repressed and now you have a very intimate part of the body that's involved how how did that kind of interact with your your identity yeah i really struggled with my body and sexuality i had a lot of shame around my body i felt so infantilized you know being 21 and not being able to use a tampon and your friends are having sex and people you know are getting pregnant and you're sitting there like oh I've never done any of those things and hoping that nobody ever finds out and more days that

pass by it's just like the worse it feels and I think we live in a time where especially in the media, every movie and TV show, you know, women are more sexually liberated, which is great. And there's a lot of sex positivity, which I think is so necessary and a good thing. But when you can't meet those standards or expectations, it makes you feel so bad about yourself. And, you know, I find there's a lot of virgin shaming. And, you know, when you get to a certain age, you just must be so weird or people must not find you attractive and it just sits in your body and it feels horrible so that's you know the virgin shaming i mean you're totally right i mean it's everywhere it's just how you know sex sells right um and being a virgin doesn't i guess to some extent but

But going off of that, in your opinion, you know, as you work through your exploration of sexual health and through the vaginismus journey, how important was it for you to have psychological resilience, right? When overcoming pain or, I mean, just pain in general or life in general, did you find that having mental support or psychological support was beneficial, wasn't beneficial? I mean, what's your take on that? Absolutely, it was beneficial. When I started physical therapy, again, when I moved to Austin, they recommended that I see a therapist. And I think my physical therapists have given me a lot of emotional support just by being there every week for me and hearing my stories and trying to find different ways to make

progress. And then my therapist has been supportive. And I had my mom and then later my dad. And eventually we talked about it. And some close friends who were so great. And then really, I think making the film and writing the essay and getting so much positive feedback and responses helped in my healing process as well. So I think that having emotional support and people rallying behind you, I mean, that's what helped me. And, you know, it takes a lot of hard work. I was in and out of PT for four years. and kudos to you honestly congratulations because I think you just graduated

right? I did thank you that's awesome that's great I mean going off of that I feel like you know because we talked about the worst

advice right that you ever received but what about the best advice I guess and you know with all the support that you've you got and you've accumulated and nourished yourself with and the resources that you have, what was the best advice that you'd ever receive? I really attribute it to just perseverance and going to PT every week. I don't think there was ever one breakthrough.

But actually, now that I've just thought about it a little bit, I think taking breaks when you need it is really important. It was for me, at least when I would get super frustrated, I would tell my PT, okay, I need to be gone for four weeks or so and I'll come back to it. But it was, you know, sometimes we just get to be too much. And then after I would take a break and not think about it, I would see some sort of jump to a next goal or just more progress. so I think being kind to yourself and taking breaks when you need it and but never giving up

entirely I love that advice and it's the best advice I think anyone can receive to be honest is taking a break and listening to your body right and just saying you know I need I need a mental physical break and when you talk about having your breaks what um if you don't mind telling us you know what did a break look like for you you know what did you do in that break Like, how did you continue to not give up, but then go back to it? Because most oftentimes I feel like, you know, it's kind of like a breakup. I'm eating it all the way off and it's like, let's take a break, but we'll get back. We'll see how it goes.

You know, it never ends right, right? It's like, you're breaking up. Let's just get real, right? I mean, I'm not speaking for every situation, but in my head, that's how I'm like playing it where it's like, I don't know. how did you how did you maintain that integrity the determination the persistence and you know what did you do in your break I mean what what did what was a break to you and what did you do to to kind of like keep you on the same path well I would always keep up with my dilator work and

I would make sure to um kind of keep up my other routines like the way I sit or the way I exercise exercise, but just not having to go to PT every week and not having to assess my goals for health insurance purposes, you know, like that comparing and that routine, taking a little break from that was always helpful. And I don't, you know, some days it was really great that I didn't have a partner because I had no pressure. There was no timeline. You know, I didn't have anyone who was hoping to have sex with me um or I was hoping to have sex with them but you know on the other side that was also really difficult because I didn't have that support system um and sometimes I'm like why am I even doing this I'm not even dating anyone but being completely on my timeline and

just listening to my body I think is what I learned from this whole experience that's awesome and you kind of segwayed into the next question i had was about your partners and you mentioned you know feeling this pressure of having a timeline and expectation from your partner to want to have sex so on that note how how did partners that you were with handle the sensitivity of your journey with vaginismus and and on the other side of that is how comfortable were you you know discussing how you feel and exploring safe touch especially um so there's women out there who want to explore new relationships right and it's very it's difficult to talk about this part of the nether regions right it's very difficult and how do you bring

that up without feeling that like you're talking about that shame and um and rejection and all of that can you talk a little bit about that yeah um I wish I had better stories to give but I was really unlucky every guy I dated rejected me for it flat out and that was very difficult I you know I joke and I call it my third week curse because no one would date me after three weeks that's about the time when people expected to have sex and then I would tell them and they wouldn't be okay with it and I got asked basically a similar question the other day and I don't know what the best way to tell a partner about this is you know there are no tips in Cosmo for it like there are for getting a better blow job you know right exactly oh my god yeah I don't know I would tell

people when I felt like it was the right time and unfortunately they were all negative reactions and each one felt like it got harder and harder to receive especially when I was working so hard to be able to do it and I would tell them this is not impossible forever it's just kind of where I'm at right now and you know for me I know that I would tell them really when any kind of touch or sexual activity started because I would feel so anxious about it so there wasn't really a lot of safe touch or exploration and I knew that penis vagina intercourse wasn't it didn't have to always be the end goal but to me it was an important part of my body and how it reacts and because even I mean a finger would be painful or impossible so I was very frustrated and

it was very disappointing dating until I started talking about it publicly and then all of a sudden I did come across partners who were accepting of it and so being public kind of weeded people out and then I think people were who were attracted me even despite it were just like you know you're you're doing your thing and you know you are confident about it and it's okay with me they were on the same wavelength yeah and so I think being public it was like okay so if sex was that important to someone then they just wouldn't show any interest in me but then other people are like well I still like you as a whole person so right yeah you're human dignity and and honestly it's the whole you and not just your vagina right exactly yeah totally

that's that's beautiful that's great I mean and so when did you decide so tell me how like where this journey kind of took you and when you when did you decide I mean what was the tipping point for you to go public with this and to be such an advocate for women who you know suffer from vaginismus and other pelvic pain symptoms so I had dated this guy who laughed in my face when I told him. And it was really awful. And, um, I was at this point where I felt so hopeless and really, really just sad about it. And I thought, well, the only thing that I can control And, you know, I can produce from this. Being able to create from this and have control over my own narrative a bit was an empowering idea for me.

So I started writing the essay and then I had this idea to create an animated film from that essay. And this is the essay. Sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, but this is the essay that was posted in the Bust magazine, correct? Yes, it was published last October, November, the issue of Bust. And any of you listeners out there, honestly, that article is beautiful. It's succinct, but Shelby's story really comes out and her emotion resonates out of the words, the ink on the paper, the screen, honestly. So take a look at that, and it will also be connected to the podcast in the links below.

so thanks shelby yeah thank you um so you know creating the film my hope is to keep raising awareness and creating community because i think the more people who know about it it's like one it's going to help people who struggle with it to hopefully people you know who know about it they can tell their friends hey like maybe you have this thing because I read about it or I saw a film about it or then maybe partners would be aware of it because like I don't think every guy who I dated who reacted negatively was malicious I think part of it was they had no idea how to react they had never heard of anything like it before and they didn't know what to do so I think educating people about these conditions so that it's not such a shock and

that also they're aware there is treatment and it's not like a death sentence right exactly right so that's what I'm hoping that this film can do that and again a beautiful message very powerful And so sad, you know, that you had to, it was sad in a way that you had to experience that from someone who, that was very hurtful and in essence kind of created a danger, a dangerous situation for you and an emotional reaction that unfortunately, I wish we could all take back stuff we've said before or done before, right? But it sparked you to be very creative as a creative artist that you are to, you know, be more vocal and more public with it and really overcome the shame that you felt with this throughout the years prior, right? Yeah, exactly. That's beautiful. And so that kind of shaped your life now, I feel like, and your journey. um is there any other ways that it's that you've um attributed any change or your self-development

or where you're at now um can you talk a little bit about your your that and how it shaped your life yeah I think I'm much more confident about my body and sexuality and you know I have a lot more hope I feel like this is the beginning of things for me and figuring that stuff out And I'm finding, I kind of, like, I have this idea that I'm coming through my sexuality through not being sexual. Because it's like I'm almost finding my sexuality through this process of talking about it. And, you know, and talking about it publicly feels so different than it did a year ago. Like, I'm not nervous to talk about it. And it feels normal and part of my every day.

and i've been asked a lot of crazy questions but i feel trained in it now wait okay i can't let you go with that one what's the craziest question you've gotten um one that sticks out is somebody asked well what turns you on and i was like well that's none of your business and that's kind of out of the realm of like what I'm talking about people ask a lot about treatment and they ask a lot about what I've tried sexually like also not any of your business but I think most people are well-intentioned and they try to give advice but I've also learned to filter that out too because it's kind of impossible to take everyone's advice and

everyone thinks that they know better than you or better than specialists and no one knows your yourself better than yourself right it's yeah it's empowering you to it's very empowering to hear you say that honestly because I try to empower my patients in the same way where you know your body the most and you know your life the most and the best and no one should tell you otherwise you know yeah exactly so totally that's that's wonderful and you know on that same note and this might be deep and you can choose to to answer or not but um if you could change anything or maybe you wouldn't but would you change anything if you could no i I don't think so. I think everything that happened and everything I tried led me to

this point. And I'm really proud of where I've landed at this moment, both physically and emotionally and artistically. And I'm really excited to see how Tidely Wound does. And so I'm kind of grateful for all those experiences at this point. that's wonderful that's beautiful um i i should i probably should ask this question too like there's probably multiple things that helped you move through your experience the most but you've mentioned physical therapy as one of your major you know really huge supporters in your journey and you've been in physical therapy for four years do you know any anything else that helped you move through your experience in terms of life and health and a second part to that is

you know physical therapy was it did you have multiple physical therapists because sometimes I get patients that will have been through many different ones and some were bad experiences and some were good experiences so I guess I'll leave that open to you to chime in on I've had many physical therapists I started PT in Nashville between college and grad school and she basically got me to the point where I could use a tampon and then I moved and then it took me a while to find someone in Austin and also I it wasn't a priority I was starting grad school like right I had other priorities but then um my PT yeah that I've been with for two years at one point she had to go on maternity leave she had a baby so then I had someone sub in for her

then and then there have been a couple other people who've jumped into kind of sub or if i couldn't get an appointment with her you know so i i would say about i've had about five pts so yeah so you've had five and then was there um how during therapy and i always get you know again this is i'm always intrigued by this but um did you always feel comfortable to with all your therapist, I guess I should say, to, you know, talk about what felt good and what didn't feel good, right? Like, there's many ways to do different things. Did you feel like open and empowered to kind of say, No, I want to, you know, I want to work on this part of my body. And this is what feels good. I mean, how did that that balance work out for you? Yeah, I've been really

fortunate. I liked all my PTs. And for the most part, I was definitely comfortable talking about that stuff but yeah there are also some bad days where I remember we would talk about an experience I had with a partner and you know she was so helpful she was trying to give me other strategies and I was like I just burst into tears like I can't talk about it right now not the place maybe next session but yeah everybody who I've worked with has been awesome and so supportive

and really just looking out for my best interests and my main physical therapist actually is part of the film and we've recorded her voice to be in the film yeah so it's

the film's gonna be like all it's going to be just the most personal thing ever you're going all out that's great though i mean it's very courageous like i said it's in your your courage is very contagious and you're sparking a movement that i feel many many women need to to hear and to follow um it's just there's not enough words i think in the dictionary anyway in my vocabulary that i can identify with to explain and describe what the wonderful work that you're doing it's so powerful and man kudos and 100 backing you up all the way girlfriend so that's really really really awesome uh and last question i i should ask is if you could give our listeners or women out there any advice

what would it be i would say to always be an advocate for your health your body your sexuality if one doctor tells you no there's nothing wrong with you or they give you bad treatment there are a lot of other doctors out there and it's just a matter of finding the right one and it's about finding the right treatment i mean i know pt works so well for me i know a lot of women that had other treatments that worked better for them so i think it's just about being really confident and strong and just always asking questions and trying something new and lifting your body, taking breaks when you need it, but just never give up on it. I love it. Never give up on it. Take breaks, self-care, never listen to one piece of advice, right? One candlestick might

work for someone, but it doesn't work for another, right? I mean, it's, you know, you're that's such a great succinct piece of advice and and and patience i guess i should ask is patience and loving acceptance right is because you've been through therapy in this journey for many years um sometimes expectations i feel like it's hard to explain to someone that you know it's going to take some time and it's going to take some dedication some persistence and patience to love yourself right and I guess expectations shouldn't be frustrating right not to expect one thing and then be frustrated as that could kind of potentially snowball into more tension and more pain and more catastrophizing all that right I mean you could chime in on that but oh yeah I mean

catastrophizing is my middle name well explain it explain it I mean we're kind of going on tangent but explain it to you know to our listeners like what is what was catastrophizing for you and how did it impact your progress and healing oh I just I never thought anyone would date me I never thought I'd ever be in a relationship I never thought I'd ever get married or have kids and most of those things are still up in the air but um you know now I am dating somebody who's really wonderful and supportive and you know he knew all about the film and vaginismus before we dated so um you know like that was not an issue for him and but i i couldn't imagine that anyone would ever come into my life like that at the time so it's just like i couldn't imagine anyone

wanting to date someone who couldn't have sex and that and that could be a very disheartening experience yeah especially because I wanted to and if I could have done it I would have done it but it just you know there were limitations on my body and then those limitations manifested emotionally and created a lot of anxiety around any sexual experience so right Right. And what helped you the most with that, like the catastrophizing and the mental resilience? And you mentioned lots of support and your family and friends and, you know, being creative and, you know, extending your energies creatively for the movie and your essay. But anything else that helped you kind of move through some of the catastrophizing? I think just having some corrective experiences with dating and with the film that so many people really embraced my story and me and, you know, hearing people, like, love my story and showing empathy gave me a lot of hope. that okay maybe yeah like maybe someone could be out there because if I speak in a room of 400 people and they're all laughing and clapping and crying you know then maybe somebody is out there

for me oh that's I love it oh my god girlfriend you're gonna bring me to tears over here because seriously it's so touching and you're I mean it's just amazing because you've you've like found and you reached out to the universe, you're like, no, I need to create a safety around this and not a danger. Because oftentimes a lot of that that you've experienced earlier was like a constant danger. Like, oh my gosh, this is dangerous. I identify with dangers. And when anything is dangerous, you're not going to want to open up. You're going to be guarded. You're going to be tense. You're going to be anxious. But if you're going to be the opposite of that and surround yourself with love and those that understand, you know, ultimately it's like so weird how it

happens, but the universe will gravitate and give you that those people and those circumstances and person place and thing you know that create more of a safety and like you said a corrective experience i love that shelby i think that's fantastic i'm gonna have to use that corrective experiences you are reshaping the journey to what you want it and girl i'm kudos to you standing up i think you're awesome so again your message is so powerful and i can probably talk your ear off but i i i mean i'm so happy you're on this show and you're able to kind of share such an intimate story with with all of us and with the world and you're you're helping and you've already helped so many i've already shared your story with my patients um i've shared

it on my to my followers on facebook and social media and i mean the the wave of support that i'm getting and and what people are like oh my god that's me you know like so many women are resonating in such a short amount of time girl you're rocking it you are rocking it you continue to rock it I love it you do it um and and you know on that note come on tell me tell us I'm dying to know where you're seeing this documentary tell us about this documentary a little bit more where they can find you and where you think where you see things going in the future what are you doing now what's you know occupying your time yeah so I am a freelance filmmaker and we're working on tightly bound right now we are about probably a third of the way done with the

animation my animator and good friend lives in chile so he works remotely and we just touch face every couple of days but it's looking amazing and we're going to be done in september of this year and then we will be submitting to film festivals and hoping that we'll get in lots of places around the world um people can see our teaser and more about the film at tightlyboundfilm.com i also have a tab of pelvic pain resources that are you know medical so there's locators for physical therapy and therapy and physicians i've just named some people that i know around the world i have books that are medical but also just narratively related that could make people feel a little less alone things that i found through my journey and then there's

also a place to donate if anyone could wants to donate they can get a tax deductible donation through our website because we have the money to make the film but we need some more support to get it out into the world so that's kind of where the film is awesome oh my gosh guys get out there help shelby spread the word um the more don't be shy talk about the low the low down down below because you never know who you might just be helping honestly and um yeah please donate because such a strong message check out her website um check out the film it's awesome i did see some of the resources on shelby's website they're fantastic and they're just great resources in general have you been talking at some conferences or is that something yeah well i've recently

partnered with the international pelvic pain society great to do a book giveaway for people who submitted testimonials and i tested like i posted testimonials almost every day during may which was the first pelvic pain awareness yes and then this summer i'm performing at bedpost confessions which is a storytelling series in austin about sex gender and sexuality it's i performed tightly wound there last fall and then this summer i'm going to be performing an essay about vaginismus but about a few different experiences and i'm going to be at the woodhull sexual freedom conference in dc in august i'll be performing tightly wound and sitting on a panel about sexuality and ability you can find out more at our website tightlywoundfilm.com

and on our facebook page which is just tightly wound when you search on facebook you can also look at bedpostconfessions.com and then for woodhulls sexual freedom summit the website sexualfreedomsummit.org wow girl i seriously you're blowing me out of the water right now fantastic you'll have to give me the links to this if anyone's in the austin area or dc and wants to come out and see you i mean what great way to connect with such a powerful woman and very courageous woman so please share those with me shelby so i can post those on this podcast because i sadly oh my gosh i wish i was there um but i'm sure you'll have much more opportunity to be around the world i am totally um baking on that for sure

you have such a powerful message and again so thankful that you can be on the show today with with me and all of our listeners you rock very cool thank you for being on the show and for your time i hope you enjoy the rest of your day and your summer and have tons of fun and congrats on graduating from pt oh thank you very nice thank you so much shelby okay we'll have a good one bye Thank you.