Indiecast - 2022 Wish List: Sky Ferreira, Alvvays, My Bloody Valentine, And More

Episode Date: January 28, 2022

We’re barely a month in and 2022 has already delivered a great amount of trends to be hashed out -- like Taylor Swift vs. Damon Albarn (6:36) and Neil Young removing his catalog from Spotify (0:28) -- and music to be excited about. On this week’s episode of Indiecast, Steve and Ian tackle the latest developments in the indie world and curate their wish lists for albums they hope are finally released in 2022 (34:38). From long-delayed albums from The Wrens and Sky Ferreira to theoretical releases from The Cure and My Bloody Valentine, there’s a lot of music in the vault that they’re hoping finally sees the light of day this year.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Steve is urging listeners to check out Texas band Good Looks, who are set to release their new album Bummer Year in April. Ian is digging Dissolution Wave, the latest album from alternative rock outfit Cloakroom (55:20).You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the albums we hope, we hope, come out in 2022. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's verified on Twitter now. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Yeah, how I am is that my fees going up. Let me holler at the Up Rocks, guys. I want that verified market. up. If we're going to hash out trends, they need to be verified nowadays. I just want to say, welcome to the blue checkmark. Coastal elite, baby. Yes, thank you.

We all had a meeting, and I put in a good word for you. I think what put you over the top this week is that a friend of the podcast, Christaville, referred to you as my podcasting partner. Yeah, not the other way around. Exactly. So I think that put you over the top. I don't want to, you know, hog credit here. I'm just saying maybe that association was the thing that the Blue Check Mafia, it's like, okay, we got to let Ian in now.

We don't want to piss up. What we don't want to do is piss off Stephen Hayden. I guess you're like the Joe Rogan in this like, in this sort of thing where it's like we cannot offend our corporate overlords. Can we really say we're hashing out trends right now if we're not involved in like a high profile beef? because I think we could probably just make an entire episode of that this week. There's so many beefs. I mean, you talk, you had the Joe Rogan reference there, and I believe that was so we could segue into talking about Neil Young,

taking his music off of Spotify because of Joe Rogan spreading misinformation about the vaccine. I saw a tweet actually right before we started recording that made a really good point that I haven't seen brought up elsewhere that. When Neil Young was a child, he had polio and almost died from it. And what saved him was the polio vaccine. So, you know, I think maybe that is what might be, you know, he has a personal connection to vaccines. He's very passionate about it. What I think is interesting about Neil is that I'm seeing takes on this, that this is very canny of him, that he has his own streaming platform to Neil Young archives, which is like the least user-friendly streaming platform of all time.

But, you know, also this might be a way for, you know, Neil Young to sell more vinyl or more physical product because you can't go to Spotify, even though his music is on every other streaming platform still. But I don't know, my take guy Neil Young, and I mean this as a compliment because I love Neil Young, is that he is an old stoner who doesn't think about the future, really. He just goes on instinct. So I don't know how canny it is. I don't know if he's really a schemer. Yeah, I mean, didn't, well, didn't he just, like, sell, maybe I'm getting confused with a lot of the other, like, boomer artists, but didn't he, like, sell his entire catalog to Sony or something? Or am I, that's Dylan. That's Dylan.

I mean, but I think, I think he did sell half of his publishing. And the joke was that it was the half that has landing on water, everybody's rocking. Yeah, exactly. All the second tier, Neil records. Which you can listen to on Pandora. or Zazel or what's that other one called? Oh man, I don't know.

I'm not on top. But, you know, it was a good day for people like me who just want to be surrounded by physical media. We could gloat on the Spotify users. You know, I think I did a tweet. I know I did a tweet saying, listen to some Neil Young CDs and cassettes right now, just gloating.

You know, there's a lot of people like me and the Neil Young game, I'm sure. I think the Venni diagram. between Neil Young fans and like physical media enthusiasts is pretty much one circle. I mean, like if Neil Young indeed wanted to get people, like, because I mean, he's lived through the CD era, if he wanted to get people to buy his stuff again, if not just to own it, but maybe even out of spite, you know, that's possible. I also don't think that Neil Young is struggling for cash unless he's trying to get like a peanut oil fueled car off the ground. I know he's got a lot of like,

he thinks about the future but like oftentimes with albums like what Greendale or something like that where it's like dystopian future sort of deal maybe you know better than me

again yeah I mean his last album was called Barn and there's a documentary about the making of it and you know you say barn and you're thinking some like broken down farm structure it's like this immaculate looking

farm it's like in the Colorado Mountains you know, that I'm sure cost just tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to restore. I think it's from like the 1850s this barn, but he put all this money into it. So yeah, Neil's going to be fine, even though he's not touring right now either because he doesn't want to tour during coronavirus. So he's not going to stream the income. But yeah, he's got a lot of cash in the bank. I mean, you know, if I'm not, you know, we're kind of joking about this. is the serious point here to be made that this is a sign that Spotify really is backing away from music in some sort of way that podcasts,

like they see podcasts as the core of their business. I mean, if you listen to Indycast, you have to go with that. You know, it's like this is, this is really where the future is at. Like, music is really just a content creator for us. It is a lost leader for the podcast community. And you know what? Like if that's the direction media wants to take, you know, at the expense of, I don't know, like artists.

Yeah, so be it. What if, you know, St. Vincent put out a press release saying, I don't like being made fun of on Indycast. Spotify, I'm going to take down my music or you have to take down Indycast. Do you think Daniel Eck would side with us or with St. Vincent's? I think it would be a close call. I'm not going to go so far as to say, like, Yeah, definitely you take Indycast over St. Vincent.

But it would be a tough decision at the very least. I think so. Can we talk about the Taylor Swift versus Damon Alburn? Ancient history, it seems almost now. But yeah, we got like what is more Indycast fodder than, like, first off, it's Taylor Swift beef, which is like the oxygen which we breathe? But Damon Albar, like, imagine, like, he had an album come out when, like, last November or something like. that. Who knows? He has albums every six months with some side project. Imagine just like taught like, okay, this is definitely not to push the album. It's been out for like four some odd months. And,

you know, for some reason, they're asking you about pop stars. And, you know, this is this is a softball question. Like you've, if you're an aging rocker, you've answered this question a billion times. And lo and behold, here you are. Like now Taylor Swift is, like you are directly in. You are directly in not just her crosshairs, but those of like her entire fan base discovering who you are. Well, should we just say, for those who don't know,

David Alburn. Let's assume that people who are listening to Indiccats aren't well versed in Damon Alvarn. Let's do that. Well, again, no, no, I'm just saying like the specific instance, because again, I think there's a lot of people who listen to our show to get the news.

They don't necessarily, they're not on Twitter. They do this to avoid the latest pop beef. Yeah, so in the Los Angeles Times, David Alburn did an interview where he was, I forget the specific context, but he was talking about songwriting and he was talking about modern pop stars. And the reporter for the LA Times asked him about Taylor Swift and Alburn said that he's not really a fan because she doesn't write her own songs. I don't know if that's the right. I mean, there are avenues which you can levy criticism against you know, Taylor Swift such as, hey, this person is co-opting my 2010s in.

indie culture. But, you know, the songwriting one's like the last thing you go for because... Well, it's such an old man complaint, too. You know, especially targeting it at a high-profile female pop star, so you don't write your own songs. I mean, she is a well-known songwriter. I don't know if you want to get into the weeds about, like, how much does she do versus Aaron Desner or Max Martin or any of her collaborators?

I hate that conversation. It's so tiresome. But anyway, Taylor Swift... saw this, took offense to it, and put Albert on blast on Twitter. And Alburn apologized. Real quick. Really quick. And he threw the reporter under the bus, of course, saying, you know, I was taken out of context, even though when you read the interview, it's a Q&A, and he's answering at length.

I don't know what was taking on context. Did it say at the end of the article that this interview has been condensed and shortened for clarity? I love that little notice they always have to give at the end of the interview just to make sure that you didn't include all the us or likes. Right, exactly. That's all that ever means you're taking up the ums, you're taking off like the sentence that someone started and didn't finish. It's basically just to edit the interview so you can read it and have it makes sense.

My main interest in this feud wasn't about Damon Alburn and Solisd insulting Taylor Swift. It was that Damon Alburn was being shit on constantly. And as an Oasis fan, I loved it. I was purely just going back to, you know, old school blood beef from the Brit pop world. Yeah. So for that, I enjoyed it. That was my only interest in this was seeing Damon Alburn getting pantsed and dunked on repeatedly.

Wasn't there like, didn't like the president of Chile? Like, yeah. This guy show up in her mentions. Like, everyone was sucking up to Taylor Swift, you know, and just dunking on Damon Elburn. I mean, it was a terrible day for Daniel Alburn. Yeah, I'm thinking about the fact that, and I can't believe I'm saying this sentence, but like the president of Chile is a well-known, like, Deftones tool, like nine-inch nails type fan.

But it's, oh, man, just. He's probably listening to the show. He's probably an Indycast listener. Yeah, shout out to you. Which, you know, hey, if you're listening, you know, that looked like a little desperate. You know, we're saying this as your parasycial friends here, president of Chile, which we should probably learn his name. We can really crack the southern hemisphere with that. You know, like I really think that that's our way into the southern, to the South American market.

You know, we've got Australia down, but like South America, real growth territory for Indycast. But, you know, for me, you know, and you took a shot at me. Yes, I did. for this in the DMs, the Aaron Rogers debacle. Yeah, and he was afterwards like, people want to see our team lose because I'm unvaccinated. It's like, yeah, that's exactly it, dude. Yeah, he got demolished. I mean, way more than Damon Alburn did.

Alburn had a bad day, but Rogers just got destroyed after the Packers choked yet again in the playoffs. And look, look, we don't need to go. This isn't sports cast, so I don't need to talk about Aaron Rogers too much. but I'll just say I'm relieved that the season is over. I was sad at first, but it was hard. This was like the best of times and worst of times this season for Packers fans. One thing I thought was interesting, and you and I were talking about this before the podcast, because we both noticed this.

One thing that was unremarked upon in the Damon-Alburn interview is that he slams Taylor Swift, but then which pop star does he praise? And if you've been paying attention to any aging rock artist interview, you know they all love Billy Elish. Like that is... Yes. He loves Billy Elish. Yeah, I interviewed, you know, another, like the interviews happening in a couple weeks.

But, like, I interviewed a guy in a band from a very, very popular late 90s new metal band. And also, this guy loves Billy Eilish. Yeah. Everyone knows who you're talking about. I mean, it's either Fred Durst or somebody else. And I'm guessing it's that Fred Dirst. Oh, fuck. I should be so.

But we'll just keep it under wrap. I mean, but I think we all know who you're talking about. Yeah, I mean, Dave Grohl has talked about Billi Aylish. Eddie Vedder has talked about Bill and Aleish. I think, uh, which, you know, like, look. Bill Joe Armstrong, I think, like, a co-interview with her in Rolling Stone. Which, you know, like, she does deserve that praise, but it, there's just, there's something just like a little canned about that response.

It's like, you know, she's the new Kurt Cobain or she's, like, the real rock star. And it's just the way that, like, they say it. I would really love for them to like, you know, talk about what they like about her or like the songs rather than just like making these like, you know, kind of like stump speeches about like how this is the real rock and roll, you know. Yeah, you know, it actually reminded me of that McSweeney's article that was published, I think a week or two ago where it was about the sad dads and like the corresponding indie rock band. I actually thought that story was like pretty well written. but my criticism of it is that I really think that if you talk to

the kinds of dads who are satirized in that article they're not going to talk about the national they're going to talk to you about how much they love Billy Elish and Olivia Rodriguez. That's correct. That's like what the hip 45-year-old guy

is going to be talking about how listening to driver's license it reminds me of listening to Duky on CD, you know. Yes, exactly. It reminds me the first time I saw the Smells Like Teen Spirit video on MTV when I heard driver's license or when I heard that first Billy Elish record. That's what that guy, that sort of cliche, kind of hip, mid-40s dad is going on.

I can't believe McSweeney's wasn't on the cutting edge of humor in 2020, too. That article, I don't know, that article was sent to me like 20 times. Yeah, so many times. And, like, I feel, I almost feel like secondhand embarrassment for the people who thought I might find this to be funny. But we won't get into that. I'm going to stop here in case, like, in case, like, any of the people who sent it to me are listening. I thought it was pretty well done for what it was. I'm just saying, I think that the next level of that story would have talked about how 45-year-old guys living in Brooklyn just want to talk about how much they relate to Olivier Rodriguez and Billy Eilish.

because I think that's the new cliche for that demographic. Do we want to talk about an old feud coming back this week? Oh, yeah. Because Auburn versus Swift, that's new, but Morrissey versus Johnny Marr. This one is great. More, this just hasn't stopped giving for like 35 years. Yeah. Because Morrissey, he puts out an open letter on his website, I guess, saying,

Johnny Marr, stop talking about me in every interview. Keep my name out of your mouth. Keep my name out of your mouth. It's like, we haven't known each other, you know, since the 80s. Let's, we got to say this first. Like, it's a Morrissey open letter, and here is the first line of it. This is not a rant or an hysterical bombast. Like, first off, A.N.

hysterical bombast. Like, what a Morrisy way to begin something. Like, this guy is... What a writer. Yeah, this guy is so on brand. at all times. Morrissey, he's problematic, but still a good writer.

That's such a Morrissey line. This open letter was the best thing he's done like probably since you know, the more you ignore me the cursier you get or whatever you want to the last of the gang to die, whatever you want to call. Like whatever was the last thing that like you could unequivocally say,

oh yeah, Morrissey is like doing his thing. Like this was just fan fucking tastic. I mean, in fairness to Johnny Marr, my suspicion is that when people interview him, he's not just volunteering takes on Morrissey, that reporters are asking him about Morrissey because what's the alternative? Are you going to ask Johnny Marr about his latest solo record?

I mean, come on. Let's be honest. Actually, Morrissey says this. It's like, this part's great. It's like, would you please instead discuss your own career, your own unstoppable solo achievements, and your own music? I don't know if I've ever heard anyone as dismissive of another human being. Like, I think of like all of like, you know, the like Jay-Z, the takeover or like ether or like any hip-hop disc track that you can think of.

This just all makes these seem like hallmark cards. Like your own unstoppable solo achievements. See, you should name his next record that. Like Johnny Marr, Unstoppable Solo achievements. I was going to say that this open letter, it should be divided into, you know, maybe four parts, and Johnny Mar should just write guitar riffs to, like, sections of that letter. And you could have some, like, new great Morrissey Mar songs, because there's some very quotable lines in this letter. Like, they could be song lyrics.

Maybe this is the, you know, that would be a great troll move by Johnny Mar. It's like, I'm going to take this letter. I'm going to write some jangly, you know, pop hooks to this and it's going to be the best thing since the queen is dead. You know, like it'll be the comeback record for both of them. But yeah, I mean, I just feel like, you know, Morrissey, obviously, there's some controversy with him all the time. And I'm sure that when reporters are talking to Johnny Marr, you know, once you get past the

first couple sort of courtesy questions about your new record, it's like, oh, what does this record say about you now? Like, oh, what do you, why did you work with this producer? sir. It's like, okay, we got that out of the way. Morrissey just said something horribly racist. What do you think about that? I mean, and that's going to be the best part of the interview. It's going to be the part that everyone pulls out and cares about. And that's not necessarily Johnny Marr's fault. But, yeah, I mean, I can see both sides of this. I understand why Morrissey would be annoyed over this. But, yeah, I love it. I was so glad to see this revived.

How weird must it be to be associated with something you did almost 40 years ago? Like a band that you were in for like maybe five or six years. And that's all... And you know that's like the main thing people care about. You know, and that's not specific to these guys. It's like many... Yeah, many music legends, but that just seems so weird. Yeah, I don't know, man.

If I was Johnny Marr, I'd probably, you know, find a way to, you know, process and be okay. with that. Yeah. I mean, he seems, I mean, Johnny Mars seems like a pretty chill. What about the other two people in the band? I mean, well, they're not like making music as far as I know as publicly as Johnny Mars, though.

Like, A, I'll probably have to go ahead and learn the name of the basses from the Smiths to, you know, comment upon them. It's, uh, is Andy Roark the drummer? Yeah, that sounds about right. And, uh, I'm blanking on. Of course you are. Yeah, the rhythm section, I'm, yeah, I'm fuzzy on

in the Smiths. we have to bring up the Lana del Rey Army Act. This is my favorite, man. There's so much banter this week. This is like over full. It's like this is January and we had so much to talk about this week. It's unbelievable. Yeah, we don't even get to have time to talk about the Emo's Not Dead Cruise.

So hopefully when, hopefully something goes incredibly wrong with that next week so we can, you know, have some banter. But to, what happened was the Army's Twitter, like, like, like the actual army, not like a parody account, not like one of the lesser military branches. But it quoted a Lana Del Rey lyric with a soldier like kind of crawling on his elbows. I mean, I know that it doesn't matter what the social media. It doesn't matter what the Twitter feed is. Like the person in charge of the social media is probably like some 24 year old NYU grad who's just looking to boost the CV to get to the next.

thing. And, you know, back in my days, I just remember the Army would use like three doors down videos as recruiting tools. Like, you would go to the movies and like when I'm gone would play before you went and saw like Fast and Furious 2 or whatever. Now it's, I mean, is the Army having this much trouble finding recruits that they need to kind of go after like the Stan armies? I don't know. You know, I was trying to find the origin of the. this quote? Because the quote is, being brave means knowing that when you fail, you don't fail forever. Because that's not a song lyric, I don't think. I, like, I googled it, and it's just attributed as a quote from her. So I don't know if she said that in an interview or something, or,

oh, God, wait a minute. Do we get, like, prank by a parody account? This was the actual armies. No, I'm, no, I'm just, no, it was the army. I just wonder if the army, if it's like, You know, like how any kind of edgy quote about politics is always attributed to George Carlin. And it's never George Carlin. It's just something somebody made up and then they said George Carlin said it. I wonder if that's similar to this where if it's just like an apocryphal quote. Because when I Googled it, all it did was lead to websites of quotes. It didn't lead to an interview and it didn't lead to a song.

So I don't know. like maybe Indycast Nation, if you can track down the origin of this quote, I wonder if it's even a real Lana Del Rey quote. But that aside, whether it's real or not, the Army felt that a Lana Del Rey quote, real or not, would help in recruiting people. Yeah, we used to be a country, a proper country, you know. But, uh, yeah, Lana Del Rey, again, like, this is not something that she orchestrated,

presumably, although who knows, maybe she has reach into the, the Pentagon? I don't know. Another way of her playing up, you know, typical American masculinity as like a theme on her albums, you know, because didn't she like date a TV cop or something like that? I think it was a real cop. Yeah, but like a cop who, like a real cop who was on TV. Yeah, yeah, there was that story. And, of course, there was lots of gnashing of teeth over that.

People felt betrayed by Lana Del Rey, who's always speaking out against the police. And then, as we all know. but yeah it's just one of those you sent this to me and I was like oh man this is this is another one of those things that I feel like we will into the world sometimes our show yeah so remember that

remember that I want to say Phil Eck but that's the guy who produced the Built to Spill albums like when it comes down to us and St. Vincent I want you to remember this Daniel Eck yeah Daniel Eck that's right yeah there's Phil Eck who is the

Indie Rock producer. And Daniel, I don't think there's a relation there. Eck just must be a

common name. In Sweden. I don't know. Phil Eck, Pacific Northwest, Daniel Eck, Sweden. Don't confuse the two.

Speaking of producers. Yes. Oh, my God. This leads into our Indycast question of the week from the mailbag. And thank you all for writing in,

by the way. It's always great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. I'm going to read this question because I want to hear

you're actually do you want to read this or should i read this i'll just go ahead and read it so um so this comes to us from john g no uh no location okay just i think i think he did i asked in a follow-up for his location keep reading i'll i'm gonna look this up and i'll say it from the indie the indie the indie the indie cast fear so hi ian steve since someone already beat me to my last question i thought i'd take crack in another one i want to know which album you think would have benefited most from a different producer. This question came to me this past week when I was listening to Cloud Nothing's Attack on Memory, which turned 10.

And I've always felt this album, good as it is, was held back by Steve Albini, stripped down black and white production. I actually like his production in other context, but I think in these songs in particular, couldn't have used some brightness and polish to make them pop. Woo! Look, man, like, we've been doing this. Like, of all the, I mean, of all the wrong takes,

I've heard on this podcast. Okay, first off, like, I get it. Like, I don't know. Maybe if, like, you, maybe if you think that, like, the Cloud Nothings were trying to make, like, like, a, you know, a, you know, a Duky type album or whatever. But, like, not only does, you know, Steve Albini's production, like, really work well with what they were trying to do here, but he is so intrinsic to the fact, to why we're talking about this album 10 years later.

Because I can just say, like, in a kind of way. wink wink nudge, nudge sort of way. If Steve Al-Bini wasn't producing this album and making it seem more like a raw indie rock record than what it is, which is like kind of a really raw get-up kid-up kid's record, there's no way it would have been received by the indie rock community the way it was. Like Cloud Nothing's really benefited from that context of, oh, this is kind of like they're in utero as opposed to, you know, there's something to write home about. And you could hear that later on with Life Without Sound, which I think is a good record, but it's more produced like John G would like it to. That's like the time where people, for the most part, kind of started taking Cloud. Nothing's for granted. Well, okay, I just want to say, John G, I respect the take.

I love, I love takes like this. I don't agree. I would say Steve Albini really killed it on that record. It's a big part of the appeal, like the drum sound on that album, the Steve Albany. drums, but I respect it. I also want to say, I looked it up, John G. from San Diego. What?

So maybe Ian and John G. Can meet in a parking lot somewhere and duel it out over Steve Albini's production on attack on memory. I'm going to throw out some, like, obvious, I think, examples here of, like, a producer botching a record. Not to pile on, but Jack Antonoff,

I think after melodrama, you could pick any number of records. that I feel like maybe someone else should have done it. Don Was, this is not indie rock, this is like boomer rock. Don Was has produced so many boomer rock icons, and he always succeeds in making the most boring record. And then usually Daniel L'Anois will come in and then make a great record with that person.

St. Vincent on that once later Kinney album, which I can disagree with that one. Which one? What was that called? The center will not. The center will not hold. You're going to disagree. I just want to say, I mean, I feel like this is an obvious choice because the band fell apart during the process of this. Not blaming St. Vincent.

Just maybe she was in the vicinity of this. But Janet Weiss exited the band. I know for me, and I think for many people, she was one of the best, if not the best, part of that band. And just that record generally is. it doesn't have that Slater Kinney energy that, you know, the gnarly guitars, the punk rock energy to it. It feels more polished. It just seems like an obvious example of maybe a producer in a band not being well matched. You disagree with that. I don't know. I think that like St. Vincent kind of makes a convenient scapegoat. Like who knows what direction the band really wanted to go in? Like I just get a

sense from like this record and the next one that, you know, when you look at like all of their other outside interest that maybe, like, I don't know if the aisle would be, if this was, these were the ideas they were bringing into the session anyway. Like, I think it does kind of take the hook, like, you know, Slater Candy off the hook to think, oh, they, you know, this wasn't their idea. I don't know. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough.

By the way, I have to make a quick correction. John G. He's from Charlotte, North Carolina. What the fuck? Well, in his email, he said, the San Diego of the East Coast. So I just looked at, I looked at the email quickly. it's all San Diego. I got excited that he's from San Diego.

The East Coast, Charlotte. Charlotte, North Carolina. I don't even know where to begin unpacking that. All right. Well, anyway, John G., thank you for writing. This is, you've given us a lot to chew on. My last one, and this is the one I know you're not going to like. But this honestly came to mind right away was Dave Fredman doing some loud thunder.

Clap your hands to say, yeah. Dave Fredman, who I, obviously, he's worked on many great records. He's one of the sort of foundational. indie rock producers of the last 25 years or so but I just feel like that record sonically was a mess and I think it's why that record

among other things like didn't capitalize on the buzziness of the debut or their self-title record the one that breaks up. I gotta disagree with that one like don't get me wrong that first I've had a fixed version of the title track that begins the record so I would agree in some capacity Like where it's skipping?

No, it just sounds like the tempo is faster, the less distortion. It sounds like a normal song. But like, I think if it was produced, quote unquote, better, it would just be the kind of, you know, less well-received clap-your-hand say-yet album. What Fridman did with it, it's now like interesting in a way where you can go back and like kind of think like there's something noble about the self-sabotage of it. Okay, well that's, okay. So you're saying that at best, so you're saying at best that he sabotaged them in an interesting way. Is that the argument here?

Because, I mean, because it was the less well-received second record. Yeah, but I think that like the controversially produced like abrasive second record as opposed to just the, you know, whatever the next tapes and tapes album was, that was just a little bit slicker than the previous one. Like I don't think that if you had, you know, John Congleton, for example, who worked on subsequent clap-your-hand, say, yeah, records, or whoever else, like, or Ben H. Allen or whatever. Like, I don't think that really would have made a difference. Like, it would have been more forgettable. Now it's like, it's something that you want to kind of stump for. So you're making the podcast host argument for it.

Because of how it is, it makes it more fun to talk about on a podcast. Exactly. Which I totally see that. All roads lead back to Indycast. Well, so what would you say that? Okay. So for me, first off, Flood, I know that, you know, he's produced a lot of great albums, a lot of great Smashing Pumpkin's albums, machine and machines of God. Just some of the worst, like, mixing I've ever heard on a record.

Like, that album just kind of, like, oozes over you. Like, I have no idea what he's doing on Everlasting Gaze. Like, I think maybe that's, like, my version of Some Loud Thunder. I'll have to also bring up, like, I'm surprised you didn't bring up high violet, because I know, I know that. Now, I love that album, and I think the terrible love on that album is fucking fantastic. But Matt Bale, like, this is a little more, you know, in my, in my world, Matt Bale's, the guy who produced bands like Isis and Caspian with Foxing's dealer. like that to like that is to me what to you a terrible love on high violet is it's like super slick and very busy and orchestrated and it just completely robs them of like the live power like foxing

at that time was like a typical how come you don't like you see them live it's like how come you don't sound like this on the record which they kind of fix with here my god um and also i guess lastly. Chris Cody, another producer that does incredible work. Amund Dunes, Beach House. Cold Cave, this one's notorious. Like, Cold Caves Cherished the Light Years is the loudest album, I think, the loudest produced album I think I've ever heard, just completely brick walled. And I think maybe it's meant to replicate, like, how much cocaine that band was on while making it. But it just makes it really tough to listen to. Like, you can't put any of it. those songs on a mix because it's just

like 20 decibels louder than everything else. Which, that doesn't sound like a fault of that. Yeah. Because you're making me think of like Owen Morris doing the Oasis record. Yeah, maybe you're right. But you want that quieter? I don't think so. I think it's part of the experience.

High Violet, that's a great example, although the National did that themselves. So it's like you'd have to fire the National and put in somebody else. And I don't know who that would be. Put Peter Cadis again Yeah Yeah you could just have him

I mean I assume he probably engineered it But yeah he But the band did that themselves Alright let's get to the meter of our episode And we're running along here man So we might have to blow through these a little bit Because we had so much banter And then John G dropped the

Steve Albini slander You know which there's so much going on in this episode A titan of indie rock beef himself Yeah exactly But anyway, we're talking about albums that have not been announced yet, but we hope come out in 2022. And there's been signs that they might come out. But maybe they won't. We don't know.

But these are the records that we hope to hear. We each pick three each. Did you want to talk about albums that we didn't? Yeah. So just to make it clear, like, what our criteria is, like, I would say it has to be more than four years since the last album. it has to be unannounced and it has to be a band that's not on hiatus.

So I can't say, oh, I want to hear a new fuck button's record, which I really do but they're on hiatus. I also don't think the hotel year, which would be an obvious choice for me. I don't think it's happening. Christian Holden doesn't seem like they're in the space to do it.

And also I think they're a band who their legacy is perfect as is. I would, other, yeah, other like, like arcade fire. think they're going to put out a record. That one's seen like there has to be some degree of real wishful thinking about this. And there's also like the Wrens record that is just like a running joke in terms of like when that's going to come out, you know, it was that Ian Station album that

came out in December. So part of it came out. But yeah, we're not even going to talk about that one. In Japan droids like maybe, but like I, you know, if they if they decide that they've run their course, like I just don't want them to like, like, like, the quality control with them is high and I just don't, I don't think I can live through them doing their kind of rustic Americana record. Yeah, they're almost the band I feel like

they perfected their formula and I don't know how you could really elaborate on it. I mean, I liked the one after a celebration. Near the Heart of Life. Like, I love that record

and just the, defending that record just took the life out of me. Like, I just don't think I have it within me to just... Like, a mid-Japan droid's record would just kill me more than, like, a pretty good one would enliven me. Let's just call it that. I just think with that band, it either has to be great or it's going to be mediocre.

Yeah. You know, I don't think it was much of a middle ground at this point. But why don't you go first? What's the first record that you hope comes out in 2020? All right, so, you know, M83 might, like, they might not. I think that Anthony Gonzalez, like, I've interviewed Anthony Gonzalez as the, you know, the mastermind behind this band more than any other artist, I think, in my time. And I interviewed him once before, hurry up, we're dreaming.

And every time I interviewed him after, he was, like, in a successively nicer place, you know, like going from his apartment to a Levi's pop-up store to a big house in Silver Lake. And each time he just seemed really freaked out by the success of Midnight City. And so there is a possibility of him just maybe doing soundtracks or ambient records and just counting his Midnight City money or all the commercial money or whatever. But I think junk kind of got that out of his system, like the I'm freaked out. I think it kind of, I don't know, it detracts from like just from how 2003 to 2011, I can't think of an artist who is more. designed to my taste than M83. And I think that like the time is right for them to just not like to just come back to be

reappreciated again. And also I think the the decks are clear enough to just receive an M83 album for what it is rather than like, oh, how much does this sound like Midnight City? It's been so long since, I mean, it's been so long since junk came out that I Yeah, wasn't there like a Muppet on the cover of that album? It was Muppets or things like that. It was just the... It was kind of goofy.

Yeah, it was the... It was like their congratulations, the MGMT album. Oh, but don't even... Nowhere near as good as congratulations. You know, let's not compare it to a masterwork. But yeah, I think if they were... I just remember that record being kind of wacky. And it was almost like he was consciously trying not to match...

Midnight City. Yeah, and hurry up on gaming. Because it's more than just, I think, that song. I think that record general is, well, yeah. It's like that, I've said that's the best song of the 2010s, and I think I'm going to stand by that. I think if M83's got a little dark age in them, that's the latest MGMT album,

which was like way better than most people realize. Oh, yeah, secretly really good. And I feel like it's kind of like how people are talking about the last duel right now, like the last dual bomb in theaters. And then watching on HBO Max, it's like, oh, this is like a good flick. That's what Little Dark Age, I think, was for indie rock. First album, I'm going to talk about the new Sky Fierra album, masochism. Sky Ferreira.

You said, you pronounce it like Guy Fierry. Sky Fierre. How did you say? Sky Ferreira. Coming back to Flavor Hennar. Sky Ferreira. God, this. Sky Ferreira.

There was a news item this week. Her mom came out and said that the long-awaited follow-up to 2013's, it's nighttime, my time, which again is called masochism. Sky Ferreira's mom said it's coming out this year. And this comes after last month, Sky Ferreira posted a screenshot of stereo gum. They did their most anticipated albums of 2022. She posted a screenshot of the masochism blurb and said, yeah, it's coming out in 2022. Now, reason why you might be skeptical of this is that in March of 2019, so almost three years ago now,

pitchfork ran a profile of Sky called Sky Fierre, Sky Fierry, Guy Fierry, called Guy Fierry returns. And, of course, she didn't return. She'd put out a single around that time called Downhill Lullaby. Yeah, it's a good song, kind of like a slow gotty song. but here we are three years later and no new music I feel like it's gonna happen but I have no idea

I hope it happens though I was listening to Nighttime My Time this week and you know we've talked a lot on this show about 2013 being a turning point in indie and the class of indie pop stars that emerged that year you know 1975

Heim Lord Girtis etc yeah I think Nighttime My Time is my favorite record out of that generation of records. You'd probably say the 1975. Yeah, but, you know, nighttime, my time, like, that's very much, you know, up there. And also, like, that story you mentioned, it reminds me of how, like, in 2015 and 16, or actually 2014 and 15, I did this enormous pitchfork profile about Johnny Jewell and how

dear Tommy was coming. So, you know, take that for what it's worth. Well, I remember that pitchfork story opens like with Sky coming out of the bathroom after she's been in there for a half hour and it's implied that she's been crying or having some sort of, you know, difficult time. And I remember reading that and thinking like, oh, this album's not coming out

for a while, you know? It just seems like she's had a period where she just had to be out of the public eye because there was a lot of scrutiny on her and a lot of crazy things going on. And, you know, take your time. It's no hurry. If you don't want to put it out this year,

that's cool. I'm just saying, I hope to hear it because I think she makes great music. But yeah, so who knows? But I hope it comes out this year. Definitive, like,

maybe it will. Maybe not. Either way. What's your next hopeful album? All right, so I feel like this one's actually, I'm like, Heson to put this one in there because I feel like it's definitely

going to happen. Neon Indian is, you know, another favorite of mine. Like, all three neon Indian albums are awesome in a completely. completely different way. I think that like, you know, just by nature of how little Alan Palomo tours and the association with Chill Wave and the fact that, you know, his last album came out in 2015, he's very undervalued. I saw that he contributes to the new Tori-Mois album and a guy who's been

very consistent. But yeah, I think that like the time, like every time that Neon Indian comes back, it's like the right time, like the exact right time. Also, he like put out a song. And, you, like, put out a He put up one of the only good anti-Trump songs. And it was just a single. And yeah, I think it was called Toyota Man. It was actually a good song. And like that in enough, in and of itself, is reason to hope that he comes back soon.

Because, you know, it's sort of like new metal, chill wave, like every so often people talk about, oh, yeah, it's making a comeback or whatever. But I think that Neon Indian is just an artist who, you know, I love chill wave. but transcends it. And I just really, really want to know what he's up to. Because otherwise, like, what the heck has he been doing in the past seven years?

You know, like, what is neon Indians day to day? Don't you feel that unlike New Metal, that chill wave never really went away? It's just that that people stop using that term. Because I feel like the influence of that just got absorbed by pop music. And you can hear the influence everywhere. Kind of like how disco at the end of the 70s, people didn't want to. associate with disco because of the backlash, but obviously that had a huge influence on pop music in the 80s. They just didn't call it disco anymore. I feel like that's what happened with

chill wave. Don't you think? I mean, so maybe Neon Indian would have to overcome the baggage that people have with the genre in the same way that like the BGs did, you know, after the 70s or whatever. When is the Indian making his Sergeant Pepper's movie? Oh man, that'd be amazing But yeah You know I'm not as deep on me and me on Indian as you are But I enjoy those records too It's just like electronic indie pop

I mean it's very hard I think to dislike He's very skilled at what he does Speaking of a band that is very hard to dislike My next record that I hope to hear And I feel confident will come out this year is the new record from always. Oh, man. The reigning, I think, kings or queens of...

Royalty, Canadian, sad indie. Yes, royalty. Sad indie, jangly guitar pop royalty. They haven't had a new record since 2017 when their second album, Anti-Socialites came out. They only have two albums overall. Their debut, self-titled debut came out in 2014. So there was a three-year gap between record one and record two.

Now we're coming up on a five-year gap between record two and record three. Like Japan, right? Always did debut two new songs in October when they opened up for the strokes in Los Angeles. And you can find those songs on YouTube. They're called Mirrors and After the Earthquake. And guess what? They're really beautiful and wistful indie pop songs. Really well done.

They sound great. They sound like always. it just makes me think that the third record is going to continue the formula of the first two records, which is perfectly fine by me because they do that thing, I think, as well or better than anyone right now. And just to contrast them with Sky Ferreira, Ferreira, thank you, Sky Ferreira. See, I have a mental block now where I'm just going to mispronounce it every single time. you know, Sky has like a high ceiling and a low floor, whereas always it's a tighter box, but I just feel like they're wired to always make excellent indie pop records every three to five years.

So this is an album, again, it hasn't been announced. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a press release that comes out the minute we drop this podcast, or it could be six months from now. But I'm sure this record will be coming out this year, and I'm sure it'll probably probably end up being one of my favorite albums of 2022 when it comes out. Yeah, the thing about Always is that, like, low-key, there's, I don't know too many bands who have been ripped off or, like, compared to more than Always. Like, there are so many bands out there kind of doing an all, like, since 2017 or even

further back, like, since the first Always record, doing, like, an Always sort of thing where it's a little jangly, it's a little indie pop. It's, you know, and it sounds like Always, but it's not. nowhere near as good. And I can think a few types of music that have flooded my inbox more fully than fake always. Yeah. And I think with a band like this, it's always deceptive when you listen to them, you feel like, oh, why would it take a band five years to follow up a record that sounds like this? Because it seems easy. It seems simple. But you're right. There's so many bands maybe lulled into the sense that it is easy to do that have tried to do what they do. And it just underscores that no.

it's actually really hard to make a record that simple, that pretty also be distinctive. And they just knock it out of the park every time. So I am excited for a new record. I think it's going to be coming this year. What's your last hopeful record for 2020? I mean, I don't even know if this record is going to be any good. I'm just sort of tired of having it tease. And I think you have like a comparative one on your end as well.

But we've been hearing about a new The Cure album since, like, I mean, the last one was 2008, 413 Dream. I listened to that maybe once. And, like, Robert Smith's the type of person who will say, yeah, we've got like two records in the bag right now and we're going to release them. This is going to be our darkest one since pornography. And, I mean, the track record isn't really great. I think they've made one good song since 2000. Like, I love bloodflowers, but lost from the raw. They made a record with Ross Robinson.

That was one incredible song, and the rest was pretty terrible. I don't think that Robert Smith has inspiration to do anything other than Robert Smith karaoke. But that being said, I'm more interested in, hey, let's talk about the cure, like as a, not just an indie cast episode, but I think that sometimes people forget, like, how fucking awesome that band. was and could be. Oh, yeah. Like, I don't, yeah. Well, we were talking about the Smiths earlier, and, you know, the cure of the Smiths, they had a feud going for a while.

Yeah. I think the Smiths are the, the Smiths are the blur, the Cures the Oasis. That's a great analogy. And I will say, I think, similar to those bands, that in the day, the connoisseurs band was the Smiths and the Cure were more of, like, the high school kid band. But I feel like now that. If you, and this is purely anecdotal. I mean, a lot of people still love the Smiths,

and I love the Smiths too, just for the record. Yeah. But I feel like the cure has more cachet now, don't you? Yeah. Like with younger people, I feel like they're the band that is more likely to attract a younger audience, maybe because they still will play like Riot Fest and things like that. You know what I mean?

Like they put themselves in front of a young audience. And to see the cure just do a, a concert of hits. I mean, that's pretty awesome. Yeah, in 2019, I think it was 2019 thereabouts, I saw they did something called Pasadena Daydream, which was a concert. They had pixies there, deaf tones, Twilight Sad.

It's like a lot of bands who follow in the mode of the cure. And, you know, they played hits. They played a couple of, you know, they played deep cuts. It's, I don't know. Like, I just think that, like, to continue, their, you know, their imperial phase, like whether it's doing a stadium tour, like, just make an excuse, you know, play the first song on the new record first and then just play the hits. That's all I ask.

Yeah. Yeah, I'd be curious to hear a new cure record. I mean, as long as you have that cure guitar sound and you have Robert Smith's vocal, you're like 80% of the way there. Just write, like, a decent song and it'll be listenable. So, you know, that's not the highest. praise in the world. I don't ask for much. Like, I don't want, I don't need disintegration. Just give me like another blood flowers and I'll be good. So, uh, my last ban is another veteran act

that's been around the block, the sad indie canon act for sure. My Bloody Valentine. Um, as you might remember, Kevin Shields did an interview in March 2021 with friend of the podcast, Jeremy Gordon for the New York Times. And in that interview, he said he was working on two new albums. One, like a warm and melodic. Those were his words. More straightforward, My Bloody Valentine Record and another more experimental record.

And this coincided with My Bloody Valentine album showing up on streaming platforms for the first time. The last My Bloody Valentine record came out in 20, 2013. So we're coming up on nine years now. That's a really good album. That was the first My Bloody Valentine record in 22 years. Yes.

So we might have another 13 years before we hear these records. That's assuming that they come out at the same time. Maybe, you know, one of those records will come out 13 years from now. And then the other record will come out 22 years after that. And we'll all be dead, but it'll just, there'll be like Kevin Shields' children will be working on it. And then that's how it'll come out. Like the Wolfgang Van Halen of Shugays or whatever. So I have no idea if this will come out.

But I do have faith, actually, that it will be good just because MBV, the 2013 record, it just seemed like, oh, they just picked up where they left off. This record could have come out in 1994, and it would have made sense. It doesn't sound like it's been labored over for more than two decades. So, yeah, it would be great to have one, if not two new My Bloody Valentine Records in the world. I mean, the fact that he said two albums does make me more pessimistic because I'm like, you probably have one album and you have to fuse those together somehow. Yeah.

So. Like, I have two albums as like a total Robert Smith sort of thing. That's like what you say when you're kind of full of shit. Yeah, or that you just have like a lot of ideas, but it hasn't like cohered into a, a, you know, real album yet. You just have, like, a lot of tracks floating around, and you don't know how to fit them together yet. Maybe I'm wrong.

I hope I'm wrong. You know, I would love for, like, there to be, like, a Use Your Illusion 1 and 2 from my Bloody Valentine. That'd be amazing. But, yeah, we're already a year almost after that interview. So, I don't know.

Who knows? But I would love to be surprised and, you know, have some new Bloody Valentine dropped on me this year. Yeah, you know, just, anything like the cure of my bloody valentine that puts olds like us in charge of the narrative for like you know a day or two all right we've now reached the part of our episode that we call recommendation corner where ian and i talk about something that we're into this week ian want you

go first all right so that one i want to talk about is uh cloakroom's new album dissolution wave uh they're a band that uh i've loved since the start you know they combine mid they they come their roots are in midwestern emo but they've gone more for like kind of of a stoner rock hum plus magnolia electric company uh type slow core you know very midwestern rustic sort of thing um right up indycast alley so this new album even more so like because i think this might appeal more towards uh steve is that it's uh a space western in which an act of theoretical physics wipes out all of humanity's existing art and abstract thought oh love it look yeah sounds like a rush record exactly now look look when i

I listen to the lyrics, I can't really tell. Doyle Martin, the guy who's the lead singer, they're very buried. But I think this is a record for people who are interested in Cloak Group, but like maybe you couldn't get past the fact that most of their songs were like six or seven minutes and the albums were about an hour long. So it's shorter, it's punchier. It actually is more of a grower than the previous two records, both of which were awesome. Highly recommend listening to Further Out if you haven't yet.

But, you know, I just think out of, it's really hard, in the same way that, like, it's hard for non-always bands to do what always does. There's a lot of, like, heavy shoegaze music being made right now that's nowhere near as good as cloakroom. So this is their first album in five years. I think it's fantastic. If you listen to any cast, I'm sure you will too. Yeah, I like this band a lot. And, you know, you talk about the shoegays thing. I almost feel like they also have like a Black Sabbath.

aspect of them. Oh yeah, there's one song that's total Sabbath on this one. They're more, you know, a lot of shoegaze bands they lean on the ethereal side and Cloak Room is more... Or they sound like bad death tones.

Yeah, this band is more just like heavy bottom end, kind of doom metal almost, Shugays type stuff. Yeah, really cool band. I like Cloak Room. Van I want to talk about is a band from Austin, Texas.

They're called Good Looks. And this is a band that I heard about several months ago, the publicist reached out to me and said, I think this is a band you would like. They're a Heartland Rock type band. And they said that to you? I guess they did. And they reached out and they sent me a clip of a video for a song called Almost Automatic

that was finally released this week as a single. And I saw the video and like the band is literally playing in a cow pasture, which is like very heartland rock. But the record that is going to be coming out, In April, it's called Bummer Year. I think it's actually like a really good record. And, you know, when we talk about Heartland Rock now, I feel like it's usually code for music that sounds like born in the USA.

You know, sort of synthy-sounding anthemic rock. And Goodlux actually reminds me more of this band. And I don't know if anyone remembers this band, the Bow Deans from Wisconsin, who is a band I unequivocally love. I think they're a great band. Of course you do. They're sort of like a rootsy rock band, not synthi at all. But like in the 80s, they were described as Heartland Rock.

And Goodlux, I think, has that... How have you not said where the Bodees are actually from? I said Wisconsin. Oh, okay. They're from Wisconsin. And where it's kind of vibey sounding guitar and, like, harmony vocals. And where, again, it's not about like the synthy type thing. It's more of like a down-home thing, and you're writing about small-town life.

And, you know, that kind of thing, it connects with me. And apparently that's my brand, because now people are saying to me, hey, this band does that. We think you'll like this. And it turns out that I do like it. So you want to go and check out Almost Automatic. That's the first song on the record. It's the first single.

Bummer year, it comes out in April. Worth checking out. Worth looking forward to. There's probably going to be more singles from it. But put that band on your radar called Good Looks. Yeah, I think it's funny. like the guy sent, it's like, hey, I think this might be up your alley because they did the same thing for me. It's like, hey, you, we, we don't think most of the stuff on our label really, you know,

fits what you're into. But I think this band does. This, like, label also does like Buck Meek's solo albums and such. And when you, if you go to the, the Kield Scales website and it's got a picture of good looks on there, it looks like pup, but like they're all smiling. Right. It's a real, they're all, they all got dad hats and they're all like kind of similar in height and, you know, shape to pup, but they're all smiling. So I can, this is definitely Steve and Hayden music. Yep, good stuff. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week.

And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week. and we'll send it directly to your email box.