Indiecast - A Big Change To The Fantasy Albums Draft, Plus: An Extended Cinema-cast On "One Battle After Another" and "Springsteen: Deliver Me From Nowhere"

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Steven and Ian begin with an extended Cinema-cast about one of the biggest movies of the year, One Battle After Another (1:23), as well as an anticipated release coming later this month, Springsteen: Deliver Me From Nowhere (10:56). Then they do their fantasy draft for the year's Q4, and propose a rule change to the draft (29:07). Also, did Steven make a huge mistake? We'll see!After that, they use a new Richard Ashcroft album as an excuse to talk about a band they both love, The Verve, and where they land in the hierarchy of '90s Britpop (45:41). Finally, they do a "yay or nay" on My Morning Jacket's classic album Z, upon its 20th anniversary (56:42).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the Philly band Nyxy Nyx and Steven talks about Minneapolis rocker Will Olsen (59:54).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 259 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about movies and Britpop and do the latest fantasy album draft. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He can't proceed on this pod until he tells me the time. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? I'm glad to use that gag rather than the one that Bob Ferguson used. is to really confirm his identity. So we're keeping it, we're keeping a PG on here. Yeah, you know, I feel like some of the people out there, they're listening with their kids, they want to educate the young people on the latest indie news and they want to hash out trends with the young people.

So you don't want to drop the R-rated bits of the film at the beginning of the pod, maybe later, but not at the beginning. Yeah, we're keeping a PG for now, but much like one battle after another, you know, it really starts to pick up steam at the end. So is this where we like start to soft launch the idea of like a Patreon, you know, like a bonus cuts version of Indycast? I feel like we've been teasing that for a bit. Yeah, we'll see.

I don't know. Maybe 2026. You never know what the future has in store. But yeah, we are going to begin here with a quick cinema cast. One battle after another. We mentioned it last week. We said that we were going to go see it. I've seen it twice.

I saw it once on a normal screen. and then I saw it on, it's not IMAX, it was like an off-brand IMAX. It's like a large format screen. It was a big-ass screen. I saw it on. And I love the movie. I know people are going crazy for this movie. Maybe you haven't seen it yet and you're like, oh, there's so much hype for this movie.

Is it really as good as people are saying? And Tase is subjective, of course. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. I'll just speak for myself. I think it's a great movie. It's super entertaining. It's one of those movies that people talk about being in the cultural firmaments, you know, that it's touching on something that makes it sort of feel like it's conveying how it feels

to be alive in America in 2025, which I think is a pertinent point. But beyond that, if you're just looking for a fun night or afternoon at the movies, this is one of the more entertaining movies I've seen in the theater in a really long time, even though it is two hours and 40 minutes, which, by the way, people talk about the length of this movie, it's shorter than like Avengers Endgame. Okay, so like these bloated comic book movies, they're as long as this movie, but they're just glom on CGI. They're glomming on these fight scenes that are unconvincing and terrible to look at. Meanwhile, you have this film, artfully shot, real people, real cars smashing into each other.

Just an incredible experience. I mean, I have a lot to say about this movie. Not too much, because we have to get to the indie cast. part of this show. But I don't know. Did you like the movie? Am I on my own here? Are you into it too?

Yeah, I liked it a lot. And, you know, if you do ever come to San Diego, you can do the one battle after another tour because so much of this movie was filmed around here. Even the desert scenes. They were done out in Barago Springs. I mean, I guess the first question is like better Halloween costume. Bob Ferguson and his dude era or sensei. I think that if you're, it's funny.

I'm actually, geese is playing in San Diego on Halloween and I'm going to go see that. And I'm trying to ask myself, how many people are going to show up at this gig dresses either Bob Ferguson or Benicio del Toro as Sensei. That's like a real merger of everything that is happening this weekend. And what a weekend it was. We had geese, we had one battle after another. I saw Hanar O'Malley. Just dudes rock all over the place. But yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

I mean, if we're going Halloween costumes, I think Stephen Jay Lockjaw would be an underrated. costume as well, especially, I don't want to give anything away, but if you dress like how he looks at the end of the movie, I think that could be a really good Halloween costume. That's good too, but the hair seems really, really difficult to pull off. Incredible casting. Yeah, I did see it on Saturday night, and, you know, for all, I'm not like a movie guy, like I watch movies, I enjoy movies, but I'm not a cinema guy. I guess that's the better way to call it. Like, I don't feel as strongly about films or books or video games or what have you as I do with music. But what really stood out to me about this movie is I've seen movies of similar length like the Irishman Killers of the Flower Moon. But unlike those movies, I never really felt

fidgety or like I could sneak away to go to the bathroom for a little bit. It's a really entertaining movie. I think that is what is surprising about it because it's not this, you know, it is very artfully done. Some of the shots and scenes are incredible. And I can say that as like kind of a layperson, but, you know, great scenes, great dialogue, memorable characters at its core, it's just like a really entertaining, crowd-pleasing movie. And I think that's really what stands out about this movie to me, because a lot of the other ones that I've mentioned so far are, or even The Brutalist, you know, it's another long movie. Like these were sit down, enjoy the art, take it. And these were all great movies, but this one, it's almost like boogie nights in a way

where it's just, you could put it on in the background and watch it multiple times and get some new line out of it, some new character you enjoy. It's just a great piece of entertainment. I think that is a interesting line to tread between the artful three-hour movie and just a good popcorn flick. Yeah, I mean, the thing with this movie, and you touched on it, just how well it's cast. And you could talk about all the leads. I mean, Leo DiCaprio, who in a way, I feel like it's a little, not underrated, but there's a little, so many other great performances in this movie that I haven't seen people lock into Leo as much. And I'm just blown away by how he's obviously this long-running movie star, possibly the

biggest movie star in the world right now. And he never makes straight-up comedies. He's always making these big-time serious films. But at the same time, he's like maybe my favorite comedic actor right now in films. Like, he's hilarious in this movie. He's hilarious in like, What's Upon a Time in Hollywood? You know, you think about, like, the Wolf of Wall Street. He's always in these big movies, but he finds a way to be just super funny and take the piss out of his leading man image. Like, he doesn't lean into being this handsome, cool guy. He's always playing these losers who are at the end of their rope.

And I really appreciate that about him. And then you got, like, Benicio del Toro and Sean Penn, who are, like, the perfect yin and yang of, like, the coolest most Zen guy in the world in Benicio. and then you have Sean Penn, just being the most, like, straight up despicable character I've seen in a movie in a long time. Like, they don't try to ever show, oh, this is a scene where he's going to be nice. Yeah.

This is the scene, like, where Lockjaw gets to show his tender side. No, he's just a bastard throughout the whole movie, and it's brilliant to see. But then you get deeper into the cast, and you'll appreciate this. I'm going to make a Simpsons reference here. I mean, I feel like this movie is like a Simpsons episode in that the eighth and new.

ninth and 10th most prominent character is also just money in the bank. I mean, I was just writing down characters who are in maybe one or two scenes who just kill it. Like Comrade Josh, the guy who plays him. Great. The military interrogator guy who like is actually a military interrogator guy in real life. And he's terrifying in the movie. You've got the skateboard dudes. They're all great. You have like the two women that help Bob escape from the hospital who are in it for like a second, but they're great. You have Jim Downey, the legendary S&L head writer. He plays one of the Christmas adventurers.

Kind of looks like Bill Belichick in the movie. I don't know if that was intentional. That's great. The kid who plays Bluto, that kid is hilarious. Just so many great people. I should also mention, too, since this is a music podcast ostensibly, that Johnny Greenwood's score. Another part of the movie that I think is a little unsung so far,

it's a great score. I've been listening to it all week. And it's fascinating to me because, you know, typically with Johnny Greenwood in PTA movies, PTA is asking him to score these psychological dramas where people are talking to each other in a room. So it's a lot about the music conveying the interiority of the characters, like their psychological sort of state of mind.

And in this movie, it's like, no, I need you to score a car chase. You know, this is something that, like, most film composers are able, or asked to do, like these more sort of conventional type things. And the music he came up with, like, if you listen to this as a standalone album, a lot of the instrumentals sound like Radiohead. It's like the most radiohead sounding music that Johnny Greenwood has made as a film composer. Like, like, the music at the end during the car chase and then when, well, I won't say, what happens after the car chase.

You listen to those and I'm like, I could hear Tom York singing over this. So that's a really cool aspect of the movie as well. I'm not going to say it's his best score, but it's among his best scores. And I think it adds a lot to the movie, definitely. Yeah, and I thought when you were going to talk about the music, you were going to mention the scene with Mo Bamba.

Well, that too. Yeah, just think about it. And the dirty work too. The dirty work, Steely Dan drop is amazing. Yeah, walk the moon or whatever that's like yeah, just great. I love the walk the moon thing because that is so authentic to a school dance. Yes. Playing walk the moon, shut up and dance with me.

Yeah. Mo Baba. Those are like, yeah, that to me is like the, there are a lot of things that are exaggerated for effect, but that is like the most gritty cinema verite part of the entire film. Yeah, very convincing school dance. And again, it's a thing that you're in the movie for just a couple minutes. but it's just impeccably rendered and it's just like so many things in that movie

where you just appreciate like how you know not developed most movies are in the background details and then you see this and you're like there's so many little things that just pop and add to the overall experience of seeing the movie and it's pretty amazing. One more cinema cast thing here. We're going to have to go to the dark side

for this one maybe a little bit. the new Springsteen biopic, Springsteen delivered me from nowhere. It premiered, well, it didn't premiere. I think it just showed or it was screened at the New York Film Festival earlier this week. And I haven't seen this movie, so I'm not saying this is my opinion,

but a friend of mine saw the movie at the New York Film Festival, and he emailed me the next day, and he made a couple statements, but the one that stands out is, and I quote, this movie is terrible. straight up he said that.

So I ended up tweeting that out. And then another person I know DM me and they said, oh, did so-and-so tell you that? Like they were trying to guess who emailed me that. And I'm like, no, it was a different friend of mine. And this person was saying that this other friend of mine saw the movie. And this person literally said out loud when the movie was over and apparently people gave it a standing ovation.

This person also said, this movie is terrible. So two people I know have said, Word for word, this movie is terrible. And then another thing I saw, there was a review on letterbox that was being passed around where the person said that there's a scene in the movie where Bruce Springsteen looks at a mansion on the hill. And then in the next scene, he's writing the song, Mansion on the Hill. And I saw that review, and I'm like, this can't be real. This has to be a joke.

But I asked both of these people who, have seen the movie. I'm like, did this actually happen? And they're like, yeah, there's a scene in the movie where Bruce looks at a mansion on the hill and then writes mansion on the hill. So, I got to say, I'm kind of more excited to see this movie now. Like, if you're going to make a biopic, I either want Raging Bull or I want like the worst movie ever made. You know, I want a home run or I want it to be laughably bad. You know, I want to see Rami Malick and terrible prosthetic teeth. You know, like if you're not going to give me Jake Lamata, I want Rami Mollock and the terrible prosthetic teeth.

So, I don't know, this could be a great sort of hate watching experience on the horizon. But I don't know, maybe these people are wrong. I know that my friend who emailed me, he said he liked a complete unknown. So it's not like he's anti-biopics. He was amenable to enjoying the movie, but he said it was pretty bad. Yeah, I think that Bob Dylan is kind of known as someone who plays with the media, has like a sense of humor about himself. And I know Bruce Springsteen can be a funny guy,

but I think in the retelling, especially of Nebraska, it's not going to have that levity. And, you know, the mansion on the hill scene sounds ridiculous in isolation, but it's also very much in line with what we saw in the trailer about the hole in the floor thing.

It sounds like just kind of, it would actually be awesome if they did that over and over and over and over again. Like there's one scene with like a state trooper or, you know, exactly. Yeah. He's driving the, through Atlantic, like he sees a man in a chicken suit in Atlantic City, like on the strip or something,

and you see him rubbing his chin, and then the next scene he's, I blew up the, you know, like that would be amazing. I really hope that happens. Yeah, I imagine there's going to be like a week after this movie is released, like, like something on TikTok that does the exact thing we're talking about. So I'm excited for that. I'm excited for the movie and for the cottage industry of parodies that are sure to come. Yeah, I mean, I think you're onto something in terms of not so much the person themselves,

but how fans perceive the music. I think with Dylan, there is more of a idea of him being a trickster and people appreciating that about him. So if you are a reverent, not that a complete unknown as irreverent with him, it's a pretty straightforward biopic, but even something like, I'm not there, you know, people are open to playing with his image a little bit. I think that Springsteen attracts a certain kind of fan that is into him in the most literal possible way. And that's not all of his fans, but I think there is, as you were saying, a self-seriousness to him, which I don't think is totally fair to Bruce himself. Nebraska maybe isn't a terribly fun record, but, you

You know, there's a lot of silly songs on, like, the river. And even, like, born in the USA has songs that are very pop and aren't this stern-faced expression of the country's mood and, you know, heavy themes or whatever it is. But I do think there's a certain kind of, like, plaid shirt-wearing, IPA drinking, 54-year-old guy with the horn-roen glasses, with the goatee who is going to talk about Nebraska. in the most humorous way possible.

And it appears that that person directed this movie. Based on what I've heard, I could see the movie myself, I will see the movie myself, and maybe I'll like it. I'm open to enjoying it. I actually like the trailer more than most people. Like, I've defended acknowledging that it was corny. It did work for me. I think just because that music I love so much and just thinking about,

young Bruce you know and how the older Bruce was addressing his younger self when he was writing that record I was projecting a lot onto the trailer that might have made it better to me so I might love this corny-ass movie this might be for me so I'm not knocking it preemptively but I'm also being primed or you know people are kind of lowering my expectations in advance yeah maybe a one battle after another if we use like like an album ranking metaphor, that's like, you know, the kid A, you put it number one, whereas, you know, the Bruce Springsteen movie is like Travis or something like that,

the one you can just like throw on. That's like extremely corny, but just also very listenable. And like when you set your expectations low, you can enjoy it more. I like that. I like that idea. So we'll see. I don't know. It comes out, I think, October 24th.

So we have three weeks before that comes out. Are you going to see that? Do you have any interest in seeing that? And what else do I have to do? Of course. That's the deal with like movies nowadays. When you get to like my age, it's like, okay, is a movie out this weekend? I'm probably going to see the smashing machine just because it's safety brothers.

And also, what else do I have to do? So, yeah, that's how it goes for me. All right. Well, let's get out of cinema cast. Let's get to our fancy album draft. This is going to be for the fourth quarter of 2025. Ian, you won last quarter. Did you win the one before that or did I win that one?

I think you won that one. Okay, so I've made it respectable in 2025, but you're still, I think, well ahead of me in the overall wins and individual quarters. But for this fourth quarter draft, I had an idea to change up how we draft here a little bit. And it might not be the best for this quarter because there's not a lot of albums or not as many albums that come out in this quarter, especially toward the end of the year. But I had this idea, and I ran this by you. I think you like this idea, but I'll say it for our listeners. Because we've had this issue, this was a big issue in the third quarter, where we did the draft, and then there were several albums that were announced that ended up being big-time critical favorites.

I mean, you mentioned geese getting killed. Like, that's a really great example. I think that has a 90. I'm Metacritic right now. And that was announced after we did the draft. Same with Deftones. that's up there too. Yeah. So we got really burned by that in the third quarter.

So I had this idea that when we do the draft, we each pick five albums. But at this time, we have to at least pick three. But then we have the option to pick the other two later on in the quarter. So for instance, if I decided to do five, I could do five and I'd be locked into those five. Whereas you could be like, I'm going to withholding. hold my next two, and then you have the choice of when you want to pick those. And then if I did all five of mine, I can't do anything about that. So if the equivalent of getting killed got

announced next week and you had leftover albums, you could pick that and you would benefit big time. The flip side of that, the danger of that is that maybe a big album doesn't get announced. And now we're a couple weeks into the quarter and you're like, what am I going to do? And then you're sort of forced to pick whatever's left. And I'll just say, and I think we would both acknowledge this, we'd have a gentleman's agreement that you can't pick an album that's coming out that week. Yeah. So you can't just be like, oh, this album's getting good reviews.

I'm going to pick it. No, you've got to like at least wait a week or two in advance before you do that. But I feel like this could help mitigate the danger of us missing out on albums. And add maybe a little bit more. intrigue to the draft. Strategy, yeah. Strategy, yeah. So do you want to proceed?

Should we experiment with this? Let's go with it. Yeah, and I think that for the album to be named later, you just can't pick something after it's been put up on Metacritic or starting to get reviews. So it can be announced. And, you know, we could talk offline about it. But yeah, I think that I think we are both kind of on the same page with it. And I think, too, that you can pick an album that was already available.

But you just have to do. do it well in advance because especially this quarter, the likelihood that something's going to get announced for like a December release is is not very likely. I mean, honestly, this might be the quarter where we don't want to wait because I don't know how much is going to, because, you know, we got October here, but, you know, you get two weeks into November and you're almost hitting Thanksgiving and nothing's going to get dropped at that time, unless it's like a big time pop record or a time rap record. Like traditionally, that's been what's happened. But, I mean, last year we had Cameron Winter heavy metal come out in December. I don't know when that was announced, but, you know,

that is one of the most acclaimed albums of the year, although I don't think it was initially. So you never know. You got to kind of figure that out for yourself. Before we get to that, though, there is one big album that's out today that is on the board because it hasn't been reviewed yet, as far as I can tell we're recording this Thursday morning I assume I mean maybe Rolling Stone got in advance but I'm guessing their review is going to

probably run Friday and I don't know if pitchfork did but it's the new Taylor Swift album what is it Tales of a Shop Girl I always say Shop Girl There is a Steve Martin album coming out this quarter but it's called Life of a Showgirl

And I say if you're anything like me You're like doing that like on like Jizz of Liquid Swords, like Killahills 103404, like Life of a Drug Dealer, you know, you're saying it like that if you're anything like me, which is to say a 45-year-old guy who thought Liquid Swords came in too low on the pitchfork albums list. I think it should be called Tale of a Shop Girl. I think that's a better title than Life of a Showgirl, but maybe that's just me. I keep calling it Tale of a Shop Girl, not even trying to make fun of it.

I just remember it that way. But anyway, so this is on the board. Either one of us could take it, but you had this idea in the outline, and I think it's a good one, to do it over under here. And is this like a side bet? Are we going to actually have some sort of stakes in this, or is this just for fun? Well, I think it's our just way of acknowledging, like, the biggest record of the year coming out in a way that it, in a way that's novel. So, yeah, just kind of get a heat check on that, you know? Right.

you had over under on life of a showgirl by Taylor Swift an 80 I'm Metacritic. Her last record was below 80. I think it was like 76 somewhere around there. Yeah, your legendary, your legendary Darko Milichick type pick. The tortured poets department of shop girls, I think it was called. So recent history isn't on her side, but of course in the 2020s, It almost seemed like money in the bank that she would at least be a mid-80 or even close to 90. I'm going to say under. I'm going to take the under on this. I think I haven't heard a note of this record.

So I have no idea if it's any good. I've seen things online about leaks for this album. Like people hearing songs or seeing lyrics and people saying that it's bad. I don't know. These are unconfirmed reports. I don't really know. Like the contents are bad or the leak itself is bad? Like, you know, on the day the- contents are bad. Okay, got it. That was how, I didn't really think of the sound quality. Maybe they're talking about that. My interpretation was that they were talking about the songs themselves, not being very good. I just think that the, the pump is primed, at least critically,

to take her down a little bit. I think that was what was happening on the last record, even though every think piece you see about the state of music criticism always talks about how critics love Taylor Swift. I don't think that's actually true, like on the last record. I think that was a pretty mixed reception for that album. And I just feel like, unless she totally hits it out of the park, that people are going to want, not me, but want to be critical of this album. even with the psycho fans, I don't know, maybe I'm delusional. I think that there's less momentum with that, quite frankly, with the Swifties.

I could be totally wrong, but I don't know. I'm taking the under here for this album. All right, so I was going to take the, if we did this like two weeks ago, I was going to take the under. I mean, it feels like if I'm going to use my workplace as a framework to understand this album, because these are the people who are always going to be excited about a Taylor Swift album. It does not matter. This one seems to have a little bit more juice than the last one. I don't know why.

Maybe it's just the title is making people more excited. But this is going to be our little bit of sports casting in here. If the Chiefs hadn't just completely decimated the Ravens last week, I would have gone with the under. But now I'm feeling like Taylor Swift is conjoined. with like Pat Mahomes and Travis Kelsey, where it's like they're never going to die the way that you think, you know, it seemed like the first two weeks, chiefs are cooked, now they're getting everyone back and it's like, you know, the rest of the teams in the division are clearly unsurious. And I feel like, yeah, I feel like maybe tortured poet society was people just

kind of getting their licks in and this one will be, if not a return to form. I mean, it's not that hard to get an 80 on Metacritic. That's the thing for me. I think the Rolling Stone will almost certainly be five stars, and then everything from there on in will have to bring it down potentially. So I'm going with over, based on nothing more than vibes. And again, exactly. We haven't heard a note of this record.

We don't know anyone that's heard a note of this record. We're just going based on just potential backlash potential. And again, that's the wild card. What if this record's actually good? Or what if it's actually bad? We don't know either one of those. I mean, if it got a 79, that wouldn't be a disaster. You know, I could see that.

I think it's going to be right around 80. If she clears 80, I don't think it's going to be like an 87. I think it'll be like an 81, 82. So it's going to be right around there. It just depends on, you know, if the skinny reviews this record and they decide they like it. It's up to the skinnies of the world because you're right. Rolling Stone, they're going to give it like a, 90 or what you. I got the metacritic thing. It's going to be at least the 90 from them.

But I don't know. I just feel like she is a veteran artist who I don't know what number album this is. It's probably around her 10th album. You know, that's about where you start getting into the high 70s, even if you're the biggest pop star in the world. It's hard to, I mean, she's done it longer than anyone I've ever seen, maintain the sort of zeitgeist. level excitement. But it doesn't last forever. And like even the Chiefs beating the Ravens in week four, I'm not sold on them being fully back.

Not fully back, but just back enough to like not fall off the ran. The teams do not like seeing the playoffs. But the Chiefs, I think I could see them. I don't think that they're good. The analogy I would make is that I think the Chiefs are going to be like 10 and 7, 11 and 6, which is very good. and you'll probably make the playoffs, but you're also like a little bit in decline.

You know, so there's decline, but you're not off the map. I think that's where Taylor Swift is. I think the equivalent of like a 10 and 7, 11 and 6 season for her is getting like a 78 or 79. A little bit better than the last album, but not where she was before. So that's what I'm banking on. I like that we're just, we're just basing this on sports analogies,

but that's where I would expect it to be. You know, we'll see. I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? We'll know pretty soon, I think, on Friday where we're at with how accurate we were. Um, all right, let's get into the draft here. Yes. Um, so we're each going to at least pick three, maybe as many as five. Man, I don't know what the hell to do. I'm going to be making this up as I go. And I guess I want to see what you want to do. Um, should I go first? Or I guess I, you will, you get to choose whether you want to do the first pick or you want to do um oh man like the two like uh picking two after that right um god i don't to me there's no clear number one i don't know what there is for you

unless you're going to pick taylor swift uh not but uh i do i do have a clear i do have a i hope steve doesn't pick this one all right i'll i'll take the two i'll let you go first all right so this one feels pretty money in the bank and i know you're not supposed to pick based solely on past performance but uh sudan archives feels like a 85 at the minimum it's out october 17th uh last time she put out a record i think it was 22 or 23 either way i think it was like top five every single album or every single album of the year list uh this feels uh i don't think you can go wrong with left of center r and b that's what this is uh it is like that is the one where i really hope steve didn't see this one on metacritic so i'm going to take that

I did see it on Metacritic. I do feel like these indie R&B albums aren't quite as money lately. I think that we've had a couple instances, like where they did okay, but they didn't crush it. So that was my one reservation with that, but it was definitely on my board. I don't think it's a slam dunk. But it's one of the better choices that we have. So for me, looking at the board, I mean, I did this strategy last time and I didn't win. in, but I still think it's a good strategy where I'm picking the albums where I know that the certain

person on staff is going to review it and they're going to give it a good review. There's no way this doesn't get a good review. So I'm going to go with Tortoise, the new Tortoise album, as my number one pick. I just feel like they are going to get the aquarium drunkard writer who just loves tortoise. And look, I love Tortoise too. Jeff Parker, all of his stuff. I stuff is always very well reviewed. Just the Aquarium drunkard and Aquarium drunkard adjacent writer critic on staff

is going to review that and I just don't see it getting less than an 80. Not going to get a 90, but I think it's going to be a solid performer for me. So I'm going with that as my number one pick. Yeah, I consider that one. I mean, Taurus has never been

putting up big numbers, but I think it's been long enough for their putting out albums so that this has a bit more juice. Yeah, and again, I just feel like they're consistent. Yeah. They're consistently good. And I can't see them putting out, like, the record that's going to get, like, a 72

or something on Metacritic. It just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. This next one, maybe there's some recency bias with this. But, you know, I would liken it to, like, the Clips album that came out this summer. I picked that one. It got very good reviews. Not from pitchfork, but for the most part I got a really good, got really good reviews. I think it was in the mid-80s for Metacritic.

Yeah, everything you picked in that last, it was like 82 to 84. I just feel like there is a big audience out there for the beloved hip-hop favorite that hasn't put out an album in a while. This group just had supposedly the greatest album, hip-hop album of all time, on the pitchfork list. So that tells me that there's a lot of people out there in the critical community. that love this group. You're talking about Osama son, right? No, no, I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about Mob Deep. I'm going to pick that one. And again, I think it's because of that pitchfork hip hop list that came out this week. They called it the best rap album of all time. Not this new one, but what record was it? The infamous. Right, right. And I just feel like it's going to be the rap record that certainly like the 40-something-year-old rap guy is going to probably like.

But now I feel like, okay, there's a lot of young rap people that like this too, because that's where pitchfork, they're really leaning into the more kind of zoomer hip hop fan. So, yeah, I think they're good for at least a low 80, maybe even get to mid-80. So mob deep for me. All right. I'm going to be a gentleman here as someone who has like listened to like all the mob deep albums, even the one that they put out on G unit in 2006. Steve, I just want to be very clear. Like, you know this is like a posthumous album, right? No, no idea.

Yeah, Prodigy, the guy who, you know, one of my favorite rappers of all time. Yeah, he died like 15 years ago, or 10 or 15 years ago. So this is like, this is coming out on like Nas's mass appeal. So this is like the label that puts out like Latter-Day Nas albums. And I think they're trying to put out like a day loss. 1 and so I'm gonna you're right I did see that and wondered if there was going to be a bump and I just want you to be uh I want you to be very sure that you are going in on a posthumous album well I guess I got a roll with it this is what I get for researching this literally

three minutes after we were we were supposed to start recording at 10 a.m. Central I started researching this at 1003 so that's what I get for that I have to own it You know, this is like if I took Shador Sanders in the second round or something. I just have to live with it. So we'll see. I guess I'll just deal with it. So I'll keep it where it is. All right.

So for me, I'm just going to keep going to that left of center R&B well. On October 31st, I believe, Kia, it's spelled K-E-I-A-C-A-K-E-I-A. Her new album, Hookslaw comes out. this is an album that I feel will be I think it comes out on either XL or warp you know what I mean so that that alone makes me feel like it's going to do really well she put out a really well received album last time around that I think this is going to get like a latecomer sort of bump as well so I'm doubling up it's like taking Dylan Gabriel and Shadur Sanders if you're the Cleveland Browns but you just can't have enough quarterbacks and in my view you can't have enough left-to-center

her R&B album. So I'm going with Kia at number two. All right. That's a good one. And now I think you get another pick. Yeah. So I'm definitely going to reserve. I'm definitely keeping one open. But I'm going to go with an album that was well reviewed last year. I think this is like a very Stephen Hayden pick. I'm going to go with Hannah Francis. She is a Chicago-based singer-songwriter. Oh, yeah. I like her. Yeah, kind of in the weather station. sort of vibe like she plays guitar and that kind of jony mitchell open tuning thing um yeah this album uh comes out on fire talk i believe which is a label that's not going to get you 90s but all the same

stuff that's really well liked it's got that aquarium drunkard shout to them i mean i but you know what i mean it'll be well received very classy um people who missed that on her last record will get on this one so this is going to be one of my like kind of uh It's a bucket getter, but it's not like, you know, it's not a star player. All right. That's a good one. All right. So I'm just looking at my board here.

I'll let you pick the 10-year anniversary of Carly Ray Jepson's Emotion if you think that'll make up for picking a posthumous album. Hey, man, what if Mobb-Dee comes through for me? That could come through big time. No, I feel good about it. I got a ride with it. I'll take the heat from my fan base if that blows up in my face. So for my next one, I've got, again, I've got about three or four things I'm looking at here. I'm going to say Florence and the Machine is my next pick.

They have a record coming out. When is this coming out? It's called Everybody Scream. It comes out on Halloween. It follows up their 22 record Dance Fever, which got an 84. Really? Yeah. And this is a group that.

I think does have like a lot of heat for music fans of a certain generation that are younger than us that I think she bridges the gap between people that are pop fans and indie fans and you can see just from the collaborator she's work with her last album was with jack antonoff this album has like erin desner on board so I could see this album doing well with the British critics and I think that there are younger critics that are inclined to support Florence in the machine. So I'm going to take a flyer on that and hope that I can get into the 80s with with her. I think I can. That's a solid pick. I think that she's been kind of underrated in a degree. Maybe among critics our age, but I think younger critics and younger fans are totally into her in that group and look at

Her as being like a sort of generational pop artist, indie pop type artist. All right. So for my next pick, yeah, I've got, man, I don't feel great about any of these choices. There's two artists that are sort of in the same bucket that are more of like, that I think we'll do well with the British press and we'll do well with, I was going to say paste. but paste they don't really have that kind of older music fan bent anymore. I think you're right about that. I think they're kind of like this year they went all in on like Dijon. Right, right, exactly.

You know? So, but I'm going to say Mavis Staples, her new album coming out. So her new album is called Sad and Beautiful World. It comes out November 7th. And this is a record that I saw someone tweeting about it. morning actually. It's one of those records by an older, just iconic musician that is bringing in a lot of the younger generation. So you have Jeff Tweedy on board. He's been collaborating with Mavis Staples for a long time. But like MJ Lenderman plays guitar on this album. Waxahatchie plays songs on

this album. You know, she's covering songs by like, well, I was going to say younger songwriters, but younger for her. But, you know, like people like Tom Waits and Leonard Cohen really kind of hip choices for her to be covering. So I think that combination of just this beloved older icon working with younger people, I just feel like this album's critic proof. Like it's not going to set the world on fire. But again, I can't see anyone giving a Mavis Staples album with Waxahatchie and M.J. Lenderman on it, anything less than like a good, respectful review.

And if the album's great, then it'll do even better than that. But I think it will be a very solid producer. for me so i'm gonna go with that yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't be surprised if that was like your best performer right but yeah i think florence is a great pick uh for all the reasons you mentioned i think she's like one of those pop artists who is i mean plenty of people rep for her but i think amongst the younger generation they might see her as like being underappreciated so all right so i'm gonna go with one more pick i'm keeping a space open because i absolutely i i am going to this is like my October surprise, my surprise witness, I know, I don't have knowledge that it's coming, but I'm like,

I bet this is going to happen. And when it does, I am going to be happy that I kept space open. But for the time being, I'm going to go with the upcoming Arm and Hammer album. Mercy comes out November 7th. Yeah, it's Billy Woods. It's been good to me this year. Arm and Hammer, you know, they're performers. They're good workers. You know, alchemists is on it. It might not, like, be as much of, uh, it might not do as well as, like, the Billy Woods out of my pick, which is actually, you know, that's still, like, uh, in the running for my favorite album of the year. But, you know, it'll, it'll, it'll do good. I don't feel, there are a couple ones I thought of where I'm like, yeah, maybe, like, uh, you know, we can talk afterwards

about the ones I passed on, but, um, this one feels pretty, this, this one will not let me down. So, are you thinking that Lana Del Rey is coming out? No. that's not it it's like some emo album coming out absolutely not so

I like that you're holding here for a little bit I'm just quickly looking at my choices here there's one that I want to take that it's another kind of boring choice but it's another one of those records

again that I can't just knowing who I expect to be reviewing it I just feel like it'll do well although there's not that much information about it oh man do I go with this I'm just like trying to stall here

as I'm talking to figure it out man should I do it go for it man I'm going to say Brandy Carlisle she has an album coming out October 24th called

returning to myself. It's her first album on her own, I believe, in four years. I feel like this is a record that is probably going to be a slam dunk to get like a Grammy album of the year nomination.

Like it just feels like she is one of those people that like certainly like establishment people. Like she is a, there's a darling of that world. And as I was stalling, I was looking at her last album

on her own. She did like an Elton John collaboration earlier this year. But her last just full-fledged Brandy Carlyle album was called In These Silent Days, came out in 2021. That got an 87 on Metacritic. So not the most exciting choice, but I just feel like the people who are going to review this album are going to probably love it. And I think it's going to do really well. And again, I think it's going to have that stamp of, you know, from the industry, we have. I have to nominate this for an album of the year because it's a Brandy Carlisle album.

She is to the album of the year category with like the foo fighters are to the rock album category. Or if they put out an album, you just got a rubber stamp the nomination. So I'm going to go with that as my last pick. That's a good pick. But like Mabas Staples, I think that'll be a really reliable performer for me. Yeah, this is great. I love how it's like Grammy. And you know what?

Mob Deep might actually get nominated for a Grammy because Naa's all. always does. This is coming out on Nas label. So like, yeah, we got the left of center R&B versus Grammys. This is a real culture clash going on. I love this. I'm really going for like the, you know, the old NPR listener cliche, like my lineup. Because you have, you have Sudan archives, Kia, Hannah Francis, Armand Hammer. I have Tortus, the controversial mob depick, Florence in the Machine, Mavis Staples, and Brandy Carlisle. So yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm rolling with like the the minivan moms this quarter you know what like when all of like your cool when all of your cool music publications die that's always what's left standing exactly it's money in the bank

that's never going away all you hip indie people all you like underground hip hip hop or whatever brain rot music being written about like that is all going to fade the minivan mom rock though we'll live forever. So let's pivot out of there. We're running short of time here, but we did want to do a quick Brit Pop conversation here because there is a new Richard Ashcroft album out today. It's called Loving You, which I don't know about that title. Loving You. Yeah, I just found that out this morning, and I knew there was a new Richard Ashcroft album, but the fact that it's called Loving You, that's rich. Yeah, we haven't heard the album. I haven't gotten in advance. I don't know if I'm going to listen to the album, quite frankly.

That title isn't very enticing. But we want to talk about it because there's also new albums from Ash in Idlewild. And there's a supergrass reissue for the album Road to Ruin from 2005, kind of post-peak supergrass. Although I guess there must be partisans out there for it if they're doing a reissue of it. But definitely want to talk about Richard Ashcroft here. We've talked a little bit about the verve on this show. We both rate them pretty high on the Brit Pop hierarchy. And I saw Richard Ashcroft, actually, this summer in England when I saw Oasis at Wembley Stadium.

Actually, cast was the first opener. And I didn't make it there for cast. But I did see Richard Ashcropp. And it really was a reminder that he is like the Frank Sinatra of Brit Pop. Like he has the golden pipes. Just an incredible singer. And it was incredible to hear him at Wembley Stadium. Like his voice just sounded so good.

And he was doing all the urban hymns classics. Obviously, Bitter Sweet Symphony was the last song. But doing Lucky Man and Space and Time and all those huge sounding anthems. I mean, they are hymns, really. And it was really fantastic. And, you know, it's funny. this might be the entree into the conversation. Like I was tweeting about Richard Ashcroft

and how awesome it was, you're like lucky man. And I heard from some people, I think they were all British people who were very disparaging of urban hymns. What? Yeah, because I think there is a contingent out there. I think the true blue verve heads,

there is like a splinter cell out there who love a storm in heaven and a Northern Soul, which are the two records before urban hymns, which are a lot less, shall we say, oasis-coded? I mean, they were much more of a sort of psychedelic rock band. When I was listening to those albums this week, I was actually kind of thinking that, oh, this is like the British Jane's Addiction. Like, it was giving me that kind of vibes

because it was just very kind of trippy, extended guitar workouts. It just reminded me of like the second side of ritual D. little habitual on those albums. And plus the lead singer and the guitarist hate each other. So that's another far away. There's that too. And then on Urban Hems, they just really tighten it up and they were doing these big kind of grand ballads, really.

But yeah, I think there's definitely some verb heads out there that look at Urban Hems as a sellout. And that the records before that, that's like the real verve. But I know like you and I are both big Urban Hems. hym's backers. Oh, absolutely. You might be even more than me, which is like, I feel like in most interactions, I'm the urban hymns guy, but like between, like when we're talking in the same room, we're not in the same room, but like when we're talking, you even out urban hymns me in this conversation. Yeah, I mean, I was dying, I mean, until you picked Mob Deep, I was dying to find a way to talk about the fact that like the infamous is the best, uh, rap album of all time. And I mean,

look, it's, it would not be my choice for like the best New York album or the best 90s rap album or the, let alone the best album of all time. But I kind of like it more than like the things that you would pick, like Nas or Biggie or Wu-Tang. And that's kind of the way I feel about urban hymns where it's, I know they're not the most important Brit Pop band. But it's absolutely my favorite Brit Pop album to emerge from that era. It's so, it's as big and dumb in a complimentary way as Oasis.

but it's if the lead singer thought they were Jim Morrison. So it's got that very lizard king, shamanistic thing to it, which of course also makes it tie to James Addiction. I mean, what is the rolling people except, you know, like a Jane's Addiction song updated for, you know, the Existice era? The ballads really just sound like heartfelt. He's got cheekbones that could cut a diamond. Just everything about it is just so enormous.

and it blew my mind as a 17-year-old. Chasing the butterfly, space and time. Like, come on, the last song that somehow is 20 minutes long because of CD. Yeah, he's one of our most valuable, smart, dumb guys. Because I remember he would, like, announce, like, Bitter Sweet Symphony is like, this song is about the meaning of life. And, like, he would really mean it.

But that being said, I feel like his albums, if we were to do, like, a reverse fantasy draft, His albums always get like shit on. I think he's like the type of dude who will like pull a 50 or a 40 on Metacritic. I remember his first solo album that had song for The Lovers on it. There was like this video and it takes up, it stops like it stops in its tracks to show him like taking a piss. I don't know if you remember that one. No, I blank.

I mean really I drop off with him after urban hymns. I really just care about those. first reverb records. In the same way, it's like, I'm not listening to Perry Farrell side. I'm not listening to satellite party. You know, I'll listen. I still love those Jane's records, but even Porto for Pyros, I don't really care about. But it's like, no, you are frozen in time in that moment.

And I mean, I bought the deluxe edition of Urban Hems, like the four-disc version of it, which has like a bunch of lives. It's like awesome. I love it. It's funny because when you pointed out that there was a new anniversary edition of that sort of mid-2000s Supergrass record. I actually went and I ordered the deluxe editions of the first two albums. Ishikoko and In It for the Money, which are two of my favorite rock records of that period. This pretty well-priced deluxe edition. So I bought those

because you reminded me of that. Let's do a quick Brit Pop hierarchy thing here quick. And you might not have as many opinions on this as I do, so feel free to cede the floor if you must. But I was just thinking about, okay, if I was going to rank my favorite 90s Brit pop bands. First of all, I don't include blur because I don't care about blur. And this used to be a bit that I would make fun of blur because I'm an Oasis fan. But I genuinely don't care about any musical project involving Damon Alburn. I acknowledge that he's talented and he's had a very varied and successful career, but I just, there's something about him. I just don't find him compelling at all.

So, sorry, Blurr fans, I just don't care about them, never have. Gorillas could not give less of a shit about gorillas. So they're not, they don't rank for me at all. Radiohead is always an interesting factor here because I think they are the greatest British rock band of the 90s. but they're not a Brit pot band. I just don't include them here. Even though in a way, they're closer to the verb than oasis's. Like, the verb isn't poppy necessarily.

Like, they're kind of epic. Even with their oasis-coded moves on urban hymns. But they don't rate to me on a Brit pop list. So I'm not going to include them here. And then like the Stone Roses and the Laws and the Happy Mondays, I don't include them either. They're like pre-Brit prop, even though they're obviously very important. influential. So anyway, for me,

top Brit pop bands, one oasis obviously. Then at 2A, I have the Verve, and at 2B, I have Supergrass. I don't know if you have any opinions about Supergrass. I think they're the most underrated British band. Certainly the 90s. I think they're a great band. Yeah, I got no real opinion on them. I do like Ash. I do like Ash and Idlewild. Those are more kind of, and I know this is so

predictable, they're kind of more emo-coded, but yeah, I, Supergrass is just a big blind spot to me. Yeah, I'm a big fan. And then I have pulp and then I have like all-tied, Charlottons U.K., Elastica and Swade. Hmm. So that would be my hierarchy. I don't know if you have a hierarchy.

I don't. I mean, like Urban Hems is at the top. It's interesting you put suede on there. They put out a new album recently. That is just doing gangbusters on Metacrit That's like doing yeast numbers. I got to dive into that. I'd love their first two albums. Like the self-titled.

The first is so good. And Dogman Star, that's a really good record. Yeah. That first swayed out. I mean, that's like up there with And Justice for All for like, where is the base on this album? Why did you produce it like that? But awesome stuff.

Yeah, I don't really like, this is such like a nebulous sort of thing. Because like, yeah, happy Mondays. We talked about it a few weeks ago. I love that band. love Stone Roses, but I don't think of them as Brit Pop. But I love to remember some guys. You brought up cast. I'm thinking of Gene who just reunited Reef, which is like legendaryly bad bands.

I mean, we're going to do an entire episode where we talk about gay dad and menswear, aren't we? Oh, yeah. Gay Dad Menzware, there's Manson. I love that is an Indycast Hall of Famer. Attack of the Grey Lantern. I love that record. Yeah, I mean, there is the legend. that you put in the hierarchy, but then there is that fun underclass of fans.

I mean, they don't really count. They're like, but, you know, without you on nothing. They're almost too late. I feel like that's a little too late for me personally. I feel like the prime of Brit Pop is really like 93 to 97. Like if you want to say, you know, what would be the beginning, like around the first Swade record to like be here now. Like around, like that would be to me the prime Brit Pop years.

And then things that are before and I. after that don't really count. I mean, I'm sure there's British people out here whose heads are exploding. Yeah. But I mean, you know, obviously, like my perception of it is like the music I heard as an American. So I'm defining it for myself, maybe not in a broad sense. Then we're running along here. But we have to do a quick, yay or nay segment because we have to feed the Instagram and I,

the Instagram and TikTok beast. And this is a good pertinent one for both of us. yay or nay, Z is the best My Morning Jacket album. And we're talking about this because there is a new 20th anniversary edition of Z out this week. Of course, this is an iconic album of the 2000s. It's an album that we both love. But is Z actually the best my morning jacket album,

yay or nay, Ian, you go first. Well, we have to bring up the fact that the producer of this album, John Lecky, also did a storm in heaven by the verb. So this all ties together. I'll see you did the bends. But beyond that, you know, upstitute uprocks readers know I already tipped my hand earlier this year when my Morning Jacket released their new album is and I ranked all the albums. So I just want to bring a little more texture to the conversation. I think Z is the best album made by my Morning Jacket. Like the first three songs, the last three songs, just unreal runs. And also it's got the essential classic album song that everyone skips.

I'm talking about Into the Woods. Band that was slowly rising through the ranks and just completely shattered their ceiling. I think it's fair to argue that as of Z, My Morning Jacket, was the best American band of the 21st century. However, it still moves as the best My Morning Jacket album in that it's the best representation of their whole thing with the southernness, the jams, the reverb. And I think the thing that tips in this favor of it still moves is that every My Morning Jacket album since Z has kind of sort of been an attempt to recreate Z with like the genre hopping, but they'll never make another it still moves. Like that is My Morning Jacket.

And that's why I think it's the best My Morning Jacket album. So for me, Z, obviously a total classic of 21st Century Rock. It combines so many things that I like in one package. You have the Southern Rock thing. with the big hair, the big riffs, the flying bee guitars, the whole package. And look, this band, they do that as well as anyone. But then you have the art rock aspect of the record, and a lot of people have said this, but I think it's true.

This record sounds like if Ronnie Van Zant had lived long enough to hear Kid A. You know, that is the magic of this album. So it's a wonderful record. But I'm going to say nay on it being the best My Morning Jacket record. I'm going to take a slightly different tacked on it than you. And this is a bit of a cheat maybe. but I actually think that the live versions of these songs on the next album, the live record Okanokas, present My Morning Jacket at their absolute best.

So you get the great songwriting, but just sounds a little more raw, a little bit more of an edge to it, a little less slick. So that for me is my choice for the best My Morning Jacket record, even if technically a lot of the songs originate on Z. We've now reached the part of an episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something we're into this week. Ian, why, why don't you go first? All right, and by the way, I'm kind of hoping for, like, a reverse rec corner

because I find myself, like, having trouble locking into certain things. So if you're out there in Indycast World and there's stuff, do you think I would like that I'm missing out on? Please recommend. But for this week, I'm going with a band called Nixie Nix. I'm going to spell that because if you spell it phonetically, it's not going to help you out. It's NYXY, NYX.

their album is called cult classics part one it's a philadelphia band who have done time in other recommendation corner favorites like knife play and a sunny day in glasgow and it sounds exactly what you would think based on that uh CV it's in that wheelhouse of it's kind of slow core but it's sort of shoe gaze but heavy all the same that congeals into what most people consider indie rock in 2025 so uh the album title makes it seem like a mixtape or a demo or what have you, but like with Total Wife, which I recommended last week, it seems like these people actually knew how to make songs before they got into these genres rather than just knowing like, oh, slow course hot these days. They're vets, they're pros, and it does sound mixtapy and that they do a lot of different genres and they bundle it together, but each one does something really cool. A great record, can't wait to see what they do next. So this next album, the album I'm going to talk about is something I found just because I was puttering around on band camp last weekend and looking for something cool to find.

And honestly, a lot of times when I do that, I find stuff that is nice, but it doesn't really knock me out. And it's rare for me to find something that I really want to play over and over again. So I was really excited to discover this EP by a Minneapolis singer-songwriter named Will Olson, last name is spelled O-L-S-E-N. And he put on an EP called 5-4-1. It was actually at the end of 2024. So I'm like nine months late on this, but not very heralded.

And look, if people are going to put Cameron Winter's heavy metal on their best albums list for 2025, I feel fine excavating this, I think, very underappreciated, but really good EP from Bandcamp. The way I would describe him is he's writing these songs that sound like things that I'm often into. It sounds like Heartland Rock. It sounds like a guy writing. It reminds me in a way of like the Water Boys, that band that I've talked about on the show, cross with a little bit of like the L.A. Garage Sessions 83 record

put up by Bruce Springsteen on that Tracks 2 box set earlier this year, where really lovely melodies, kind of epic choruses, but it has this home-recorded vibe to it. I'm not sure if he's playing with a band. It sounds like it's just him in a drum machine and playing some key. keyboards and in guitar. But that combination of like really good songwriting and simple handmade aesthetics, that's always going to be something that I'm drawn to. And I just feel like sonically, it has, again, a very homey feel to it. The songwriting is really good. And they just feel like songs that could be

really epic if he was like in a million dollar studio working with a big band. But in a way, it's kind of better in this more stripped down, very sort of unslick form. So definitely recommend that you check this guy out. I really haven't seen his album written about anywhere, but I think it's really good. Again, the EP is called 541. The artist is Will Olson. Really good stuff. Yeah, very Minnesota name. Yes, absolutely. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taked newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week,

and we'll send it directly to your email box.