Indiecast - A (Cynical) Grammys Recap, New Albums By Squid And Sharon Van Etten, And Questlove's 'SNL' Music Doc

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

Steven and Ian open with a quick recap of the Grammys, including takes on Cowboy Carter winning Album Of The Year, the Rolling Stones and the Beatles still getting awarded trophies in 2025 [3:14], and the potential star power and cringe factor of Doechii [7:34]. Then they look back at the history of Super Bowl halftime shows ahead of the big game this week [15:28]. They also look at two albums in the fantasy draft that are out this week [24:35], by the British post-punk band Squid and the veteran singer-songwriter Sharon Van Etten [32:47].In the mailbag, they answer listening questions about the recent documentary directed by Questlove about musical guests on SNL [35:02]and the ethics of "name your price" shopping on Bandcamp [45:25].In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the emo band Head North and Steven shouts out the Chicago post-punk outfit FACS [50:46].New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 225 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about new albums by Squid and Sharon Van Nettin and answer questions from you, the Indycast listener. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's the world's biggest Benson Boone fan. Ian, how are you? How many times do I have to tell you?

its biggest Teddy Swims fan. Do not misrepresent me like that. I thought you were going crazy about Benson Boone on the Grammys. You know, he's doing backflips. He's singing his heart out. He's got the mustache going. I actually did numbers on the app, formerly known as Twitter, now known as X, by making fun of Benson Boone.

I don't know if you saw that performance on the Grammys. No, but I did. Because I go to no end. for this podcast. I actually did watch finally a video of the Benson Boone song like this morning. It was not what I expected. From the Grammys or just like the music video? The music video for beautiful things where like they kind of climb up on a mountain and just kind of rocking out.

Like it's a damn Yankees video or something. Right. Yeah. And it's, well, my joke was that he looked like Greta Van Fleet if they wanted to be Imagine Dragons and not. Led Zeppelin. And that's exactly what he looks like. Yeah, because he had like a Unitarred thing, I think, or it was Unitard like. It was like a powder blue suit. And I think there was like an open area on the chest. And then he did the back flip. He had like the mullet going on in the

mustache. I hate that song, by the way. It was that the first time you've heard that song? I mean, Because if you've written in an Uber in the last year, I feel like you would have heard that song at some point. I haven't like consistently been in an Uber since the days of Classic Man. That was the, that was like my memory. Oh, I'm looking at the backflip and I'm looking at him. Yeah, this is great. This is, well, I mean, we're going to be talking about SNL later on in the podcast.

And this is pretty much what you would do if you want to do like kind of a Gen Z sort of Paul Mescal adjacent type guy. Yeah. Why, okay, all I see are like the little clips, why Benson Moon apologize after his and then Yahoo, after Benson Boone adjusted his crotch ellipsies, aggressive Grammy's crotch grab advice.

So, yeah, I think I need to get a little more into the Benson Booneverse. Yeah, well, maybe not. I don't know. That song... It's bad. Yeah, it's really obnoxious. It does make you appreciate the craft of Imagine Dragons.

If you're hating Imagine Dragons, just listen to a guy doing a hair metal version of Imagine Dragons and all of a sudden, Imagine Dragons will sound like The Beatles to you. Speaking of the Beatles, they won a Grammy this year. Good for them. Yes. For that AI song. I mean, I love, I just love how predictable that is like them and the Rolling Stones. like in the best Grammys, like most,

the general consensus that this was like the best, most got it right Grammys in recent memory. And yeah, we're still going to give the beat. Who are the Beatles beat, by the way? I know who the Rolling Stones beat out, but who are the Beatles? I think that was the rock song category. So I think it was like a lot.

Back. Well, no, because there's the rock song category, then there's the alternative category. Like, they still have alternative as a category. and that tends to be the younger rock people. And the rock category is the older rock people. So that was Green Day, Pearl Jam, the Stones. Jack White graduated from alternative into the rock category.

I don't know if graduates the right word. I feel like you're going in the opposite direction. Look, this is going to be my hottest take. Well, I have another hot take that we'll talk about here in a minute. But one of my hot takes from the Grammys is the Stones, I think they totally deserve that Grammy for Hackney Diamonds. The Stones have won four Grammys in like 62 years. I think there's this perception that like the Stones just have so many awards

and they're just like Grammy Bate. They didn't start winning awards until like Voodoo Lounge in the mid-90s, which good record, by the way. I'm a voodoo lounge fan. Some would call that the Cowboy Carter of the Rolling Stones career. Well, it's true. It's true. Although, you know, Beyonce, and look,

Miles will talk to her for winning album of the year. I think it is weird that she hasn't won album of the year until now just because she's the winningest Grammy winner ever. Like she has more Grammys than anyone. It's odd that she didn't get the album of the year until now. But, you know, she got it for, I think, what's considered the weakest album she's made in quite some time. So I think that fits.

But anyway, back to the Stones. They have as many Grammys as Greta Van Fleet. Not to name-drop Greta Van Fleet for the second time in five minutes on this podcast, but Greta Van Fleet has four Grammys, the Stones have four Grammys. So if we're going to just be given out like Lifetime Achievement Award, consolation, makeup awards to people, which in a way is what the album of the year Grammy was for Beyonce this year, let's be honest. Give Hackney Diamonds 20 Grammys, okay?

We got to, because you ignored sticky fingers, you ignored Excel on Main Street, You even ignored like Tattoo You back in the day. So I'm going to stand up for my boys, Mick and Keith, Hackney Diamonds, well-deserved boys, well-deserved lads, 81-year-old, British bad boys. I mean, when you look at the other nominees for that category, is it really that egregious that the Rolling Stones won? Like, you could, I, you could really make an argument that the Grammy voters like that album more than the other one. So it's right. Yeah. It would have been cool if they won an album of the year, though, like just kind of a clean sweep.

Like, okay, like, we don't know how much longer these guys got, so let's get them all up on stage. I think Fontaine's DC might have been nominated in that category. I think at their record romance, which would have been the more apropos choice if you're just going for relevance or quality. Idols. Idols were nominated for a bunch. I mean, this really goes to get cut. The Beatles won a category where idols were nominated. which really cuts against my, you know, idols really are better than the Beatles' hot take that I've been applying for the past 10 years.

So, yeah, eggs on my face. But, you know, Fontaine's DC, they'll win their Grammys when they make their voodoo lounge in 20 years. So, you know, just hang in there, Fontaine's DC, stick around for 30 years in your voodoo. It would be cool if Fontaine's DC, like when they put out that record in 2044, if they call it voodoo lounge, you know, tip of the cap. I personally, when I'm in my mid-60s, and we're still doing this show, I'll be very excited when Fontaine's DC does that. Can I give like a really hot take? This is maybe a potentially like getting angry emails type take.

Yeah. Give us our, yeah, hit us up at Indycast at gmail.com. I mean this respectfully, but okay, Dochi. Yes. Right now. Very hot artist. I remember talking about this at the end of 2024, looking at year-end lists, how Dochi was all over the year-end list, even though I feel like, and maybe I just wasn't paying attention. I feel like there wasn't a lot of conversation about her until, like, the very end of the year.

I think that record came out in August, September of 2024. And she's a major label artist. I mean, so she was definitely getting a push. A lot of people loved her Grammy performance. and she won the best rap album of the year award. And what she does is a very kind of visually stunning type presentation. Like she's doing very well on television. She had that Colbert performance that was very well received.

She was on the tiny desk concert for NPR, which isn't on TV, but, you know, it's a viral video. And then the Grammy performance. Barry, like, Bob Fawsey, pizzazz, showbiz, like, just wow people. I think they actually showed Billy Eilish in the audience. She, like, said, wow after the Dochi performance. But in terms of the music, aren't there a lot of elements to Dochi's music that we can recall from other artists, maybe from 10, 15 years ago, that are now considered, and I say this respectfully, pretty cringe. Like, aren't there echoes of, like, Chance the rapper, Janelle Monet, even, dare I say, like, the head. Hamilton soundtrack to her music that people love when it came out.

And then five to ten years later, they make fun of it. And they kind of talk about it being very specific to its era. Am I totally off base in saying that? Because I feel like history is repeating a little bit with this artist. Yeah. I mean, when she won Best Rap album, and you're right that like when the album like first came out in August last year, It was like well received.

I think she's like a TDE person. And, yeah, I saw the tiny desk. Like, it is very theater kid in the way that a lot of pop artists are nowadays where it's, you know, like you look at someone like Lauren Hill who is like very just as multi-talented and, you know, acting, singing, rapping. And there's just something that seems a little bit more unpracticed than Dochi. It's a little more classic. Like she kind of has cut from. like a 1970s type mold of artists,

like a Stevie Wonder or like a Donnie Hathaway. And even the way she presented that album cover, it looked like a very kind of like Stevie Wonder mid-70s album cover. And the Dochi, it does feel like,

okay, she came up in the viral video era where you have really great choreography, you have like a strong visual aesthetic. And again, it's something that if you see it come up on your social media feed, you go, holy shit, this is amazing. But then,

Then musically, there's something about it that, I don't know. It doesn't feel, it doesn't feel like it ages well over time. Yeah. When she won, like, when she won Best Allen the Grams, I was like texting with my friends. I'm like, so is this like the St. Vincent of rap now in the sense that like, you know, you get the guitar world people. St. Vincent, she can, she's got chopped. She can shred better than the dudes. And a lot of times when you see like Doche, oh, this is like real rap.

right here. It has an element. Some people say have like Hobson or like Eminem for that matter where it's like super lyrical miracle. But visually I think we kind of came across like you know, Janelle the rapper, which, you know, that stuff that is very visually impressive, but just very jazz hand theater kids. Like not really what I want out of rap or music for the most part. So good chance that she either kind of goes the chapel rhone route of like kind of dominating the year after she released the album or us looking back on this in three some odd years kind of like chants the rapper or hamilton or i mean a lot of the grammies right now feel like you know a desire like it felt like the reaction felt kind of cope in the sense that like oh biontse one album of the year like we're going to get

some trickle-down effect and you know maybe that like dochi kind of hamilton sort of nostalgia as well. Like, I don't blame anyone for using the Grammys for like if Kamala won Timeline Cope, but I think that's kind of a part of it here. Yeah, I mean, you know, the left keeps winning award shows. So, you know, good for the left. And meanwhile, Trump is just doing insane things. Not to get into politics cast here.

But holy crap, the last two weeks. just horrible stuff going on. And man, like, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't want to blame. I totally understand people who want to use the Grammys as like some sort of cathartic outlet because, geez, we really need it. Well, I mean, I do push back on the Beyonce narrative a little bit because, are we kidding ourselves that she's. She's not just this enormously, like, rich. Like, you know, if this is a good time for millionaires and billionaires,

like Beyonce does follow to that narrative as well. I mean, let's just be honest here. I mean, she's a great performer. She's put out a lot of great music. But it's not like her finally winning album of the year is like a triumph of the underdog. I mean, she was the winningest artist in Grammy history. It's not like she was underrecognized until now. I do think it is weird that she didn't win an album of the year just because,

she makes Grammy bait music obviously, and it's odd that she didn't get this one category. That does suggest some sort of weird bias, however you want to phrase it in that category. But I don't know. When people go on about that, I have a hard time totally buying in to that with Beyonce. I mean, come on.

This is like the nation state of all pop stars here with Taylor Swift. And Taylor Swift handing her the award, too. It was like, okay, great. you know, they get to just hand Grammys back and forth to each other now, I guess. I guess we'll see if Taylor gets her album of the year Grammy next year from Beyonce, and then we could talk about some, you know, BS underdog narrative with that.

Yeah, well, I think the next Taylor Swift album is absolutely going to be about the, like, the minorsed of backlashes that she received for, you know, I was about to call it like Dead Poets Society, a tortured poet's department. I already kind of forgot the name. So, yeah, yeah, I don't think we've seen the last. of either of them and it's just you know like you know political parties just like

choose your choose your billionaire yeah so I mean you could argue that like celebrating like the trickle down economics of a Beyonce album or what got us here in the first place but um look I you know I I I'm trying not to

assume that people are you know kind of genuflecting to the Grammys in like in bad faith I mean I think it's got like when was the last time you like really saw like an actual like cynical hit piece about the Grammys. You know, like I feel like most of them are positive now. Yeah, I feel like, um, look, we'll talk about this.

This is actually a good transition into our next segment. We're going to do a quick sports cast here about the Super Bowl and Super Bowl halftime shows because I wrote a column about the worst Super Bowl halftime shows of all time. Because it's not really worth talking about the best. No. Super Bowl halftime shows. I feel like we all agree. We all know what the best ones are.

Prince, Whitney Houston did the Star-Spangled Banner. She did the anthem. I think, you know, that, like, that Drey Snoop, history of hip-hop show from a few years ago, very well-received. Look, whatever you want to say about U-2, U-2 after 9-11, that was a pretty great halftime show. You got Springsteen, you got Beyonce in 2013. I really feel like in the last 20 years,

they figured it out where the halftime show, and this is similar to the Grammys, the Grammy's figured out that we just need to make this a big concert where you hand out awards occasionally, but it's more about the performances. And with the Super Bowl halftime show, they figured out that we just need to invite, well, first it was like classic rock bands in the mid-2000s,

and then they graduated to pop stars. I just have them do like a 15-minute concert. And if you look at the last 20 years, I think even the worst ones, like Maroon 5 or Timberlake and 18, they're still better than what came before. I was digging into the history of Super Bowl halftime shows. And it's pretty fascinating because, like, for my column,

I just disregarded everything before 1993 because... Just like me. Exactly. But like for the first 25 years of the Super Bowl, it was really like marching bands and like up with people. If people remember that, That was like a song and dance nonprofit organization, very 70s. In 92, they did a tribute to the Winter Olympics with Gloria Stephan, like a very, just,

what are we doing here? And then in 93, they booked Michael Jackson. And that was the beginning of them booking bigger names and getting to the point where we are now, where it's just about like one performer doing a mini concert. But there was this period in the moment. the mid-90s to like the early 2000s where they would do these combination type Super Bowl halftime shows. I don't know if you remember these. But that's like that's like the sweet spot if you want to talk about train wreck Super Bowl halftime shows. Yeah, I was a lot. I I cannot recommend

this article enough to our listeners because I was alive for all of these. First off, I was alive prior to 1993 kind of vaguely remember like the halftime shows being a marching band sort of thing. I mostly remember those Super Bowls for the Bud Bowl. That was quality programming. I was like really emotionally invested in the Bud Bowl. But I looked at these things, like especially your number one choice, which we'll talk about. I don't remember these. Like they seem absolutely insane that you could do this.

Like just trying to imagine a modern analog for these is impossible. I cannot believe these happened. I was alive for them. I may have even watched them. I still can't register. Even the one that happened in 2019 with Travis Scott. You could have told me that Travis Scott performed at the 2019 Super Bowl. And I would like, I don't know about that, man.

I think, are you sure about that? Maybe headline Coachella that year couldn't believe these things. Yeah, I mean, I think when people think about like that era where you just have like a bunch of people perform at the halftime show, like it was the Avengers. Like you're just combining different pop stars. I think the one people remember the most is the, well, there's the, obviously, the Timberlake and Janet Jackson one, that's pretty infamous, but the Aerosmith and Insink one from like 2001. That one I remember. That one I remember. And it's funny with that one, because I think that, I think that one is terrible. But there's a lot of people that love that one.

Like if you were maybe like 12, 13, 14 when that show happened, I feel like there's a lot of warm memories from that microgeneration. for that show. And like Rolling Stone did a list where they ranked every Super Bowl halftime show. They put that one at number five. So kind of crazy. But at least that show has like a time capsule factor to it where you can be like, okay,

that actually kind of looks like 2001. Like it's pre-9-11. So it's like still the 90s a little bit. And pop culture is pretty junky. Like, okay, it's good for that reason. But there were a bunch of shows the late 90s where, I mean, the number one show I had on mine was from 95 where they did this Indiana Jones themed halftime show. And the musical artists were Patty LaBelle, Teddy, Teddy

Pendergrass, and Tony Bennett. And this is 1995. There's no Indiana Jones movie. Yeah, that was the part that like really baffled me. It's like six years after the most recent indie movie, which was Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade. And it was because ABC had the Super Bowl that year and they were using the halftime show to promote like Disneyland, the Disney World. And there was like an Indiana Jones stunt spectacular. So you have like several minutes of like Indiana Jones,

like not Harrison Ford, just some random guy, fighting people like the people from Temple of Doom basically, whoever, you know, the guys like with the black turbans and shirtless guys with big swords. And then Tony Bennett will come out and do like a Duke Ellington song for like two minutes. And then there's like more fighting with Indiana Jones. Like that's what these shows used to be.

And so like even if you're like, oh, I got to watch Maroon 5 and Travis Scott, that's still better than that. And I mean, this year we have Kendrick Lamar. I mean, I think that could potentially be on that Mount Rushmore of like greatest ones ever. Because he's another one who like kills it on TV.

Yes. He is always great on talk shows, award shows. He didn't perform at the Grammys. I assume because the NFL was like, no, you can't perform on the Grammys because there's like a proximity clause type thing. That's my assumption. Yeah. They got to save him for the Super Bowl halftime show, but I'm sure he's going to be phenomenal.

Yeah. I cannot stress enough. You need to see the 1995 halftime show. I had no idea Teddy Pendergrass was alive in 1995. I know Tony Bennett had his kind of weird sort of MTV unplugged kind of Renaissance. The Indiana Jones thing, you might say that, like, yeah, they figured it out. It's never going to be a train wreck like the way it was before. I mean, maybe the worst you get is like Rihanna, like kind of clearly not really being into it because she was, like, pregnant at the time.

But I kind of... It was still pretty good. It was still, yeah. Or like, Usher. Last year, like, Usher's not at the peak of his popularity, but, you know, like another show from the late 90s. They had, like, the Blues Brothers. Again, could not believe that was real. Could not believe that was real.

And it's, you know, there was a Blues Brothers movie in the late 90s, but it was like a year and a half after this show. So there's no sort of synergistic connection to promoting a movie. It's just Jim Belushi is the headline. And then Zizi Top comes out and they're clearly lip syncing. It's like the worst lip sync. It's like, come on, they're a good band. Why can't they just play? And then James Brown was also out as well.

It's like 97. Like, when you think of 97, you know, you're thinking what? You're thinking like new metal. You're thinking teen pop. You're thinking, you know. You know, you think Prodigy Thad of the Land. Yeah, I was going to say you're thinking of Diddy. You probably don't want to think of Diddy.

But, you know, he's pretty big. that time. You're not thinking like Jim Belushi singing, everybody needs someone to love and just screaming you, you, you, you at the audience for like five minutes straight while he's like clearly winded on the stage. It's like like John Belushi, you know what I'm saying? Although, you know, I realized this after I wrote the column that that was the year the Packers won the Super Bowl with Brett Farr. So pretty good year in that respect. Yeah. You need to do it like if Grantlin was still around. I would love that. see you do like a recap of like who should have played the super bowl in all those years like

american band championship belt style uh yeah like who would have played it in 95 like who would have done it in 96 97 i mean i don't get me wrong i love the way history played out but i think that could be a good idea yeah we'll see we'll see we'll mark that down for next year um let's transition to uh a fantasy album's draft up update. You and I each have a record out today. On your team, it's the latest from the post-punk band Squid. They have a record called Cowards. And then on my team, it's Sharon Van Etton and the Attachment Theory. It's her new rock band record, and that's a self-titled album. I guess first we have to do an update on FCA Twigs. You took a tumble this week. Yeah. What are you doing, wire? Like, why? Not a,

not wired the tech magazine, but wire, which I know is like the super, yeah, like the super, like, like if it like it comparatively like the quietest is like teen beat. They get like FCA Twigs had a 91 with 21 reviews and a single wire review like a five out of 10, which I, you know, it's print only so I can't see it. But I think it's kind of going in the, oh, she's just like taking, you know, more extreme club sounds and making it go pop. They gave it a five of ten, and because of that alone, this is not like, oh, it had six reviews. It dropped at four points to an 87, so now it's tied with squid for my, you know, for my breadwinner.

So I really needed that from Twigs, man. So things aren't looking good for me. The Metacritic people put a lot of stock in the wire take. I know. They review like two albums a year. That seemed like a pretty big detraction there from your score. What did Squid get? 87 right now.

They're in 87, okay. And I just want to say, I'm enjoying this record by Squid, by the way. This is a band that I've been, I guess, a little indifferent about. And I'm not super passionate about them even now after this record, but I will say that there is a trend with these British post-punk bands. And we've taken shots at these bands over the years. In particular, idols has been a target for us. But I will say that a lot of these bands do go through significant evolution over the years in ways that I think often make them interesting and sometimes better.

I mean, we mentioned Fontaine's DC earlier, which is a band that I'm still not fully sold on, but I think it's hard to deny that romance was like a pretty big level up for them. I know a lot of people like that record. And even you, you've been Fontaine's DC agnostic, and I know that you like that record. You know, I think, I mean, we're going to maybe talk a little bit about Black Country New Road. I mean, they've obviously gone through like a pretty big change. I think dry cleaning, that was true for them. And I'll say that for Squid, too. I think they've definitely evolved over time.

And this record at times almost reminds me of like an artier spoon record where, you know, it has like a really big bottom end. There's like some sort of traditional rock influences combined with like almost. more soulful type vibes to it. The singer's not as good of a singer's, Brett, Britt Daniel, and they don't have, they're not writing just the undeniable bangers that Spoon can produce. But I don't know, I enjoyed this record.

And I think this scene in general has grown on me over the years in the 2020s. I think these bands, even when they don't fully connect, they are trying stuff, and they're evolving in ways that I think American bands in this era aren't necessarily doing. Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. Like, I like this Squid album.

Like, I find it hard to love in the same way that I can be impressed with a lot of these bands and, you know, not have an emotional connection to them. I will return to it. Like, I tried with the first two Squid records, and they struck me as a little bit too enamored with, you know, the more kind of like arty, uh, standoffish post-punk stuff. But, you know, when you, you mentioned like Black Country New Road. Um, I did a big, uh, interview with them last week. And I also wrote about block party silent alarm to out like ants from up there and silent arms sound like nothing like each other. But I think they have like a more kind of emotive

aspect to them, not emo necessarily, but like just kind of more openhearted and like emotionally tangible thing that like makes them stand out amid amidst you know the post-punk stuff that is a little more arty, a little more cerebral and you know clearly black country new road is like leaving that sound behind. So yeah, I just need one band to do that. The rest of them I'm just impressed because like yeah, you're right. I think that there's something way more interesting here than there is with a lot of American bands even for something like Jordy Greep which you know I don't want to listen to. I think it in very least it's interesting, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

Like, Jordy Grip is someone who I don't really want to put on, but I, like you said, I appreciate that he's out there doing what he does as someone who's definitely not making down the middle indie rock. Black Country New Road, you know, I took a shot at them on the old app formerly known as Twitter. It was about their band photo, which really leans into like the Tui. side of what they do. It was a very, it was a cheap shot probably by me, I'll admit, because it's always easy to clown on a band photo. I will say that they're single besties. I liked more than I

expected. And I'm curious, you said that you feel like they're pivoting away from the ants from up their sound, and obviously they lost their original lead singer, so that's a pretty big part of it. But, I mean, to me, this single that they put out, it sounds more like 2000s era into. D-Rock maybe to me, particularly the bands that were more in the kind of Praguegy side of that. Prague-y side, but also like the, like the Canadian bands maybe from that time, like Arcade Fire, broken social scene type type vibe. Sunset rub. A lot of sunset rub down in this.

And I'm like, I'm like dead serious. It's a lot. I thought of it as like what would happen if like the women in dirty projectors kick Dave Longstrat out of the band. That's sort of like what they're going with, which yeah. And when I like, you know, Isaac. would the singer from Ants from up there. I mean, they were going with like, you know, sonically, you're correct in that, like you've called it more of like a Prague Genesis sort of thing,

but the, they're a band that's like got super popular on Reddit and genius because like their lyrics are more like a car seat headrest like Titus Andronicus like heavily referential quasi emo, very online guy type of thing. And they've just done away with that completely. So it'll be just to see how it's received. I mean, the single, it seemed less wacky than their earlier stuff. And I know wacky

sounds like a pejorative here, and maybe it is a little bit, because it was easier for me to like, I guess, on a superficial level, if that makes sense. But I could see it also not having that blow away factor. Like, if you love this band,

I could see maybe being a little underwhelmed by this, because like answer from up there, it is one of, it might be the ultimate love it or hated indie rock record of like the 2020 so far. Because it feels like the people who love it, they're like, this is the best album of the decade or top five.

Whereas the rest of us are like, what is this shit? I don't get this at all. So it feels like maybe, I've only heard the single, so I don't know, but it feels like maybe the new album is a little more down the middle.

I think the hater, I think the people who like really dislike Black Country New Road and like didn't get their voice heard are going to come out in full force possibly. Really? But then again, people like the live album that was not not too different of a lineup. So I have no clue how this is going to play out. All right, man. Well, I'm curious to see how that goes. And then we have my album this week, which again is Sharon Van Nettin and the attachment theory.

Currently has an 82 on Metacritic. And it looks like it's mostly UK publications. chimed in so far. I'm a little nervous about this score. Again, I think in this game, you really want to stay above 80. You don't want to have anyone going to the 70s because it really feels like our matchups are decided by a matter of like less than 10 points usually. So if you're getting into the, you know, if you get like a 75, 76, you can, that can be really hard to make that up in the ground game. I'm a little concerned that I don't think this record is be panned by anyone in America, but I could see the Metacritic score from some of these

America publications being like mid-70s, uprated, because I think this is a good record. I like her working with the band. Again, I think I've said this before. I tend to prefer Sharon Van Etton at this point, working more in rock band mode like she did on that record, remind me tomorrow. She's bringing out the Patty Smith side of what she does. I like that. But I also feel like it's unlikely anyone's.

get to hear this record and think this is my favorite Sharon Van Etton record or even my second favorite. It feels like, you know, this is the seventh, eighth album by a legacy artist type record, which means that it just screams upper 70s to me, more than lower 80s. So I'm hoping that the American publications echo the British ones. I mean, it really is just a matter of degree here, because I think everyone will probably like this record. It just depends on how much, much you like it. Yeah. Also, when you say Paddy Smith, you have to clarify for our listeners, do you mean like horses

Patty Smith or the one from Scandal who did Warrior? Is that Patty Smythe? Yeah. The Warrior one? Yeah. I thought that's one with the Y. That's what the Y. Is it pronounced Smyth?

I thought it was Smyth. I trust you on this matter. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a whole steady lyric where Craig Finn pronounces it like Patty Smyth. So I'm going to go with Craig Finn here then. Yeah. And I think, I think it's that too, but maybe we can have someone in Indie cast land answer that question.

Let's get to our mailbag segment. It's been a while since we've done like a deep mailbag. We did one question last week. We've got several here. Hopefully we can get to all of them. Do you want to read our first email? Yeah, totally. So this comes from a big sports cast fan and a very bitter Giants fan here.

Go Chiefs. Ooh. A very better Giants fan. I figured they were like all just too beaten down to be bitter at this point. But I mean, look. I'll roll with it. They've won two Super Bowls in the last 20 years, so it's not like they've, you know, they're not the Raiders or anything. And they beat the Patriots both times.

So I'll say as an Eagles fan, it's a very satisfying thing to do to beat the Tom Brady Patriots. So he is going to miss the NFL talk in the coming months. So sort of sports related, but for the love of MJ Lenderman, Steve's God, you know, I'm glad that you had me read that. Please stop calling the music fantasy contest the fantasy album's draft. The draft is just the selection of the teams, not the whole competition. Sorry, that's been bugging me for a while. He's got a point. Michael, hold on here, man.

We can call the whole thing the draft, my friend. Yeah. It's trademarked. We trademarked it with the fantasy albums office in Washington, D.C. So that's just the way it is. I'm sorry. Now to my question, Michael's that is. What did you guys think of Questlove's SNL music doc?

I thought it was well done and enjoyed the info about the music. guests as well as the musical skits slash films. I think it could easily have been stretched to a few episodes. They can do a whole separate hour on Cowbell. I would have liked more than three to four minutes on Dick in a Box or more stories about trying to convince the guests to be evolved in the skits, but that's just me. Also have the section on the less popular performances from the late 70s early 80s, such as Captain Beefheart getting zero applause.

What are your thoughts on the documentary? Thanks again and I'll hang up and listen to your answer on air. Michael from South Orange, New Jersey. Yes. Thank you for that question, Michael. So what he's talking about is there's a documentary on Peacock called 50 Years of S&L music. And it was directed by Questlove. I think it's co-directed by him, actually.

And it's a little over two hours. And it's just talking about all the music that has been on the show over the years. And I had mixed feelings on the movie overall, and I'll get into that in a minute. But I think everyone should see the first six minutes. of this documentary, there's a pretty amazing montage where it's like a mashup of different musical performances that are mixed almost like a DJ set. So you have like, I'm trying to remember the progression that they had. You go from like you two to like LL Cool J to the strokes to whatever. Franz Ferdinand. And it's done super well. Like it flows really well. And it also just gives

you a sense of like, wow, this show, you talk about the Super Bowl halftime show being a time capsule. S&L as a musical show, what a time capsule of like the last 50 years, all the different people that they've had on there and just, you know, the legends and the one hit wonders and whatever. It is pretty remarkable. So like that for six minutes, I recommend unequivocally. Yeah. My hot take is that I'm kind of a mash-up hater, especially if it's like one of those, hey, man, like, we're just one big family here in musical history.

You know, there's something kind of Hamilton about that as well. Like, I like DJ Shadow or Avalanche's type mashups more so than like girl talk. But like, I got to admit, this one was like pretty awesome to behold. Plus, you know, you got to see the other guys in the St. Lunatics. So, yeah, shout out to that. It was really tastefully done. It's sort of like we were saying with Dochi that you watch it once and it's just going to blow you away. But I will be on the record.

Like, I want to have it both ways to say this is good. And generally speaking, me, mash up hater. Put that on the record. I mean, I think it's not like the girl talk thing because he's using that format as an economical way to show like a pocket-histor. history of musical performances on SNL. It's almost like an overture for the rest of the movie. So it's not being presented as a song in the way that old school mashups were. I actually kind of like mashups when they're done well.

But I mean, that is deaf. I mean, mashups themselves are like a time capsule. Right. Of like the early to mid-2000s. You know, that's very much of that. The gray album. Oh, man. Right. Is Hood Internet?

still doing stuff? I remember like that was a kind of internet. Hell yeah. That was like a Midwestern thing or maybe because I think they were out of Chicago, but yeah, I guess that was everywhere. As for the movie overall, I have mixed feelings about it. I'm going to disagree with Michael here.

I could have used three to four minutes less of dick in the box. Like I didn't really need any dick in the box in this movie or Lonely Island or you know, the Fred Armisen sketch where he's in the punk band at the wedding. You know, I Personally, I kind of wish that the musical sketches were parceled off into something else

and that this would have just been about musical performances. Just because I think that is somewhat of an underappreciated aspect of what S&L does. We think of it as a comedy show, but it is also like one of the great music shows that's been on TV in the last 50 years where they have done a good job. Whatever you want to say about the comedy on that show, that they've consistently done a good job at spotlighting artists that are of the moment. So I think that would have been a great way to talk about music in the last 50 years, just talking about all the artists that have been on the show. And also digging out some of these

performances that I personally wasn't aware of. He referenced the Captain Beefheart performance, which was from 1980. He's doing songs from Doc at the Radar Station. And he plays a song called Ash Trey Hart, where, like Michael says, he does the song, nobody applauds. And one guy in the back of the auditorium yells, shit! And that's it. And you can clearly hear the guy saying shit. It's just amazing. And, you know, they're showing like clips of like Keith Jared on there and all these like jazz people, like Miles Davis was on there in 81. I could have used more of that. I mean, they didn't talk about the replacements on us. SNL, like that's a pretty infamous performance.

Like, that didn't come up. They didn't talk about Neil Young, rocked in the free world, which I think is the greatest performance in the history of SNL. I think a lot of other people would say that. So there was so much actual music left on the table that, and I like the Lonely Island. I like their stuff, but it's like, do we need to know more about Justin Timberlake and Andy Sandberg, how they wrote Dick in the Box?

I don't know. I wanted more of the Captain Beefheart type stuff. in that movie yeah because like i i haven't seen all of it but like you know i was walking you know through my house and like my wife was watching the episode with uh you know the the uh don't fear the reaper more cowbell and i'm like i'm not interested in an hour long uh breakdown of this i feel like a lot of the musical skits um back then and even now have been i i've encountered them sort of against my will. And I think just with S&L history in general, when there's like, you get the writers in the room talking about process, like that is completely uninteresting to me. But yeah, I would love to

see more of the musical performances because I think that is, it's true. Like even nowadays, like I can, you can say the skits don't matter. They don't move the culture. But I think that the musical performances really, really do. And yeah, I want more of that. I want more of like what goes on behind the scenes with like, you know, Kanye and Ashley Simpson, like the ones that really go wrong. There was a lot of Kanye stuff in there. Yeah. It's like right at the end.

And like that whole bit where he was on stage with the mega hat and he just kept talking at the end of the show. Yeah. They go pretty deep into that and that stuff I thought was really interesting. Yeah. Or like the fact that Steve Forbes was an S&L host. The same episode is Rage Against the Machine. Yeah.

Talk about a mashup, huh? That was a good one. I liked that part too because there was a whole thing about how Rage wanted to have American flags on their amplifiers and S&L wouldn't let them do it. And they actually had audio of like the crew yelling at them to get the flags off the stage. Like that stuff was gold. Yes. And I mean, I don't mind the writer's room stuff. I just think that should have been in a different movie.

I just wanted more of the musical performances and just to see more. clips because there is so much gold in there. And those clips are hard to find online. I think you can get them on Peacock now as part of the whole episode. Because I think they post entire episodes from the past on Peacock. But Marianne Faithful died recently, the great British singer. And she has an infamous S&L performance where she was promoting her album, Broken Glass. And she does the title track.

And her voice is like really shot. And she's struggling to get through it. And it ends up being just a total mesmerizing performance, kind of a train wreck, but also just her resolve is so riveting. And I remember when she died, I was trying to find that clip online. And I couldn't. It's only on peacock. It's not on YouTube or anything.

So give us more of that. Like, you know, there's so much gold that it's hard to find. It's like we've all seen Dick in the Box like a million times. like dig up some more of the Captain Beefhard shit. Like that's what I wanted. So maybe that'll be, maybe Questlove can do the sequel. And it'll just be music in that doc.

Let's get to our next letter here. This is from Scott in Northern Virginia. I wonder if it's a small town. He doesn't want to identify the town. It's very just regional there. Northern Virginia, like I've been there. I've spent a lot of time there. It's all kind of the same.

Okay, well, Scott, thanks for writing in. Hi, Stephen Ian. I recently bought the new Palm Fret album following Ian's recommendation. There you go, Ian. The download is on band camp at no cost with a name your price option. I always feel awkward buying Name Your Price albums. I want to support smaller bands and not feel like I am stealing from them. At the same time, it is the band that is offering their music for free. What are your thoughts?

Do you see this as an ethical? dilemma. It's a good question. It really is. And I think that this speaks not just the band camp, but like anything. I mean, in either one of my careers, it's like I get super nervous about asking people for money as opposed to like working a job with a salary. I think that's just kind of a human thing where you don't want to deny this thing, people like this service that you're offering. And at the same time, it's like, I got to make a living. So I imagine it's even more pronounced with artists who, you know, know they got to compete with Spotify or what have you. So, you know, I have that problem with, like, my substack.

It took me a long time to justify having a pay thing. But, you know, I understand. I feel if they set the minimum at, like, $5. This is my advice to bands. I take it for what you will. I don't know if people who want to buy the album won't if it costs $5. And I know that's like nothing compared to the fact that I paid $18. in $1993 for like, I'm thinking the first like for sponges rotting pinata,

which has at least three good songs on it. But I think I would hope that bands feel confident to charge more than five, like charge like five bucks at the minimum. You know what I mean? I would love to also see how much bands make by offering for free, you know, like a real like financial breakdown of it because like maybe there's a strategy in that where it's like if you say name your price, people will pay 10, but if you name five, less people will pay five. I don't know. It's a real quandary.

Yeah, I'm curious about that too. I'd love to see a study that, you know, looks into, if you make more, if you just have a set charge, I feel like it's usually $10 as the standard charge versus doing a name your price. I mean, is it possible that some people actually pay more than 10 if you give them the opportunity to pay it? I mean, I kind of doubt it. I mean, I kind of doubt it. but maybe that happens. I mean, I'm not personally a big fan of the name your price thing because I do think it's awkward for me as a consumer. I just want to know what do you want for it and I can pay it and I don't feel like I'm ripping you off. It's kind of like tipping now.

Like you have to tip everybody. Like you go to the coffee shop and someone just hands you a cup of coffee across the counter and then they turn the thing around and you have the option of tipping them. And it's like, do I have to tip you for just handing me a copy? I feel like it's a little weird. Sometimes you tip, sometimes you don't. Do you always tip in those situations? Yeah. I mean, you know, we're all struggling out here.

They're guilting you. I know. But it's like, but I hate that situation where it's like, because then it's like, okay, I do tip you. But then I'm not giving you a big enough tip. And then it's always this, it's like, just tell me what to pay. and I'll pay it and we'll be happy. So I don't really like the psychology of that. I don't know if Bancamp does this.

I feel like I've seen this where they'll have a name your price, but then there's like a recommended price in parentheses. I feel like that exists. I like that. Give me a recommended, recommended price that, okay, it's like you don't have to pay anything, but it'd be nice if you paid this. Because then I'll be like, okay, I'll pay the recommended price.

and then I feel like I'm going above and beyond. I could have gotten it for free, but I do want to support the artist, but I'm also not having to guess, like what an appropriate price is. I think that for me personally is the way to go, but again, I would be curious to find out if an artist does better with Name Your Price.

Because I can see, like, if you're an unknown band, you just want as many people as possible to hear your music, and you don't want the price point to be, an obstacle. So like you said five dollars, that seems like a very reasonable price to me. But even getting like two or three dollars is better than someone not listening to your record at all. So maybe that's better. I don't know. I'd be curious to see a study that breaks this down. Bandcamp or Epic Games, whoever runs that place. Maybe we can get that out. We can talk about it on Indycast. We've now reached a part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something

that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so I was pleasantly surprised to see that a band called Head North from Buffalo, New York came back. They put out a record I really liked in 2017. It was kind of a meta-analysis about being in a struggling emo band. As these things tend to happen, sort of lost track of them when it didn't really catch on outside of Twitter.

But they are back with a new album called Winner, Exclamation Point. And it sort of is another album about what it's like to be in a band and like how that taxes your relationship. But very, very different sound. In the past, they were more of like kind of a microwave or All Get Out style pop punk. This one's more fulky and quiet and melodic. And it's really, really good. It's like one of those albums we can tell this band is like songwriters that just so happen to be playing in like emo and pop punk as opposed to like an emo and pop punk band that can stumble upon a good song. really hard to classify album and you know it i would love to see more people talking about it but

i don't know if there's really a lane for it aside from recommendation corner so um yeah it's clear they got more skills in most bands in this realm really enjoy it once again head north winter i want to talk about a band from chicago that is been it's been around for a while since like 2010s but they have a new record out today uh the band is called facts that's f a c s the album is called wish defense. And a notable bit of trivia, I guess, for this record is that this is the last album engineered by Steve Albini. And when you listen to it, you can tell immediately. It's that classic drum sound that we all recognize from countless Steve Albini. I almost said productions. That's not the proper term. Steve Albini affiliated records that he engineered. Just that

heavy pounding, punishing drum and bass sound at the bottom of so many great rock records. You get that on this album. Otherwise, this is a Chicago post-punk band. And I feel like when I say Steve Albini, Chicago Post-Punk, you probably have a good idea of what I'm talking about. Again, heavy rhythm section, guitars that can both be really cutting and gritty and loud, but also have a dreamy side to them. and songs that kind of go by pretty quickly.

A lot of these songs are only about two minutes, but they still have an epic feel to them. And it's just a good record. I like it a lot. I've always been a sucker for Chicago Post Punk. Yay, the Midwest. Yay, Steve Albini. And yeah, it's just a reminder again what we lost with Steve Albini.

The fact that we always associate him with all the superstar artists that he worked with, at least superstars in the indie world. I guess Jimmy Page and Robert Plant would be one of the only actual superstar acts that he worked with. But it's just a good record. Definitely honor Steve Albini by checking it out. It's called Wish Defense. The band is called Facts. That about does it for this episode of Indycast.

We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Tate newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie. I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.