Indiecast - A New Bruce Springsteen Biopic, "Honkin' On Bobo"-cast + The Q2 Fantasy Albums Draft

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Steven and Ian begin this week's episode in an unlikely place — a discussion of the 2010 comedy Get Him To The Greek, which in light of the recent (horrifying) Sean Combs' news might be the most canceled film of the 21st century. From there, they quickly pivot to two other films about musicians, the forthcoming Bob Dylan biopic starring Timothée Chalamet and a reported Bruce Springsteen film starring The Bear's Jeremy Allen White. Will these films be any good? Let's hash it out (5:33).Next comes a conversation that truly no other music critics are having this week: A 20th anniversary remembrance of Aerosmith's Honkin' On Bobo (13:07). Is this really an album of blues covers or is it just a funny album title? How exactly does one honk on bobo? Finally, the guys do the Q2 Fantasy Albums Draft. Will Steven finally get it together and beat Ian for the first time? (22:29).In Recommendation Corner (51:25), Ian talks up the Brazilian shoegaze act Sonhos Tomos Conta while Steven praises the new EP from Wild Pink.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 182 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On the show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, we review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we do our quarter two fantasy albums draft, talk about a potential Bruce Springsteen biopic and honor the 20th anniversary of a very special mystery album. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host.

He's worried that recent events might ruin his favorite movie, get him to the Greek, Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? Yeah, I had to spend the last couple of minutes before we started recording looking up if, like, Rose Byrne is anti-vax, because otherwise we have like hard-canceled, kind of soft canceled, under federal investigation, Scientologists, it's a really cursed cast. Yeah, so for those who don't know, Sean Combs, is he like on a plane right now? Like in the Caribbean or something?

Like, he fled the country this week because he's under federal investigation for some truly heinous crimes. I mean, he seems potentially like another R. Kelly situation. I don't know if you out there have read about the accusations made against him, but we're talking about human trafficking. We're talking sexual assault. Just a litany of crimes. And, you know, don't want to make light of that. at all because it's horrible and I'm sure we're going to be hearing more about it as the days, weeks, and months unfold.

But it is interesting to think. This is a very minor detail in this story, but the film, Get Em to the Greek, which I believe, was that 2005? 10. 2010. It was 2010, yeah. Okay. I knew that we were coming close to an anniversary of this film.

So I guess it'll be next year. Get Him to the Greek starring. you got Jonah Hill in this film who he's the soft canceled one I guess I think so he was just like kind of a dick to his old girl his ex-girlfriend right very controlling there were some text messages I think that were leaked didn't look good for him he kind of has a reputation too for being a little prickly I think even before that you got Russell brand who has not been canceled but he has gone into the sort of Joe Rogan podcast realm conspiracy theory so his his reputation has changed and then he got

I think he's got some sex stuff um does he okay okay like you mean like accusations of impropriety yeah yeah I think he's he's apparently

like been a kind of like predatory and like and this is kind of the fucked up part like you what I've read about it's like in 12 step spaces where he's like a very

very, very public-facing figure in those worlds. So let's just say he's, like, for any number of reasons, if we combine it together, it's a very convincing cancellation argument. Okay, so he's, we'll say he's soft-canceled. We'll put him in the soft-cancel category, but like worse than Jonah Hill. Yes. And then you have Sean Combs,

who is going to probably be the worst one out of these. Yes. Is there anyone else in getting him to the Greek that... Elizabeth Moss, Like, people, like, have criticized her for making Handmaid's Tale while also being a Scientologist. But otherwise, I don't, I mean, Cuckaroo, like, that's my favorite line in the entire movie. And I don't think that franchise exists anymore either. So, uh, yeah.

I've never seen it. I've never seen Get Him to the Greek. It's a California thing. It's a, it's a spinoff of forgetting Sarah Marshall. Oh, I thought you're talking about Cuckaroo. No, no, no. No, I've talked about Get Him to the Greek. The film.

T.J. Miller. T.J. Miller's in that movie too. Oh, he's canceled. Oh, my God. Okay. So, because I was thinking about other movies like this and, you know, like the usual suspects comes to mind. You've got Kevin Spacey in there, obviously. And then you have the director, who I'm blank, Brian Singer, who has had many accusations made against him. I'm trying to think, I guess Baby Driver, too, is in that camp because the main dude in that film, what's his name? Who's baby driver? I fucking hate that movie. Who is it? It's Ansel Elgort.

No, Kevin Spacey. Kevin Spacey. Well, yeah, Kevin Space. But Ansel Elgort is baby driver, and he's also been canceled. He's been... Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, like when West Side Story came out, there were accusations against him,

like, DMing Underage Girls on Instagram or something or stuff like that. So, really, like, any film that Spacey's in, if there's like one other person, then that movie's in trouble. Like, Spacey just makes a lot of things difficult. But get him to the Greek. This is like a whole other level. This is like cancellation hall of fame, potentially, with that film. So I feel like maybe I should see it.

Maybe that's like counterintuitive with that film. It's funny. It's a funny movie. Is it funny? Okay. Yeah, I remember enjoying it way more than I thought I would back in, like, 2011 when I first saw it. Well, speaking of movies about musicians, if I can make a transition here, there's been some real action in the rock music biopic space.

I think we've talked about the Timothy Shalamee Bob Dylan movie. Did we talk about that? I know it was on our outline. I think maybe we cut it. I don't know if we've actually talked about it. Yeah, I don't think we actually quite got to it yet. Yeah, so this film set for this movie, the way, it's called a complete unknown.

It's about Bob Dylan. And I guess it's sort of like, it's not just about Bob Dylan. It's about the folk scene in New York in the 1960s. I've heard it described as like a Robert Altman-esque type film. You know, the Robert Alton of Nashville from 1975, I guess the idea or the ambition of this Bob Dylan movies, that's going to be a similar thing where you got Dylan, you got Pete Seeger, you got Woody Guthrie, you got Joan Baez. you know, Dave Van Runk, maybe he's going to show up. This film set has like the worst security, I think, of any film set ever, because there have been so many paparazzi photos of Timothy Shalame as Bob Dylan,

and people are already critiquing this and they're speculating what kind of movie it's going to be, which I think is a little unfair. I mean, you can't really judge a movie based on a paparazzi photo. Is this a big deal in your world at all? I mean, I follow a lot of Bob Dylan people. So this has been like a big conversation topic. Has this intervened into like the Ian Cohen bubble at all? No, not so much.

You know, I think that, I mean, we're going to have like a lot to talk about in this documentary slash biopic space. I saw there was like a beach boys thing, which will probably be a bigger deal. But yeah, I just enjoy it. I appreciate the memes. but as far as people criticizing or like lauding Timothy Shalemay's portrayal of Bob Dylan, it's just like kind of something if I go off Twitter for like five hours at a time, I'll miss it completely. So there's another biopic that was announced this week. And I guess this isn't for sure.

It's in talks, but there's reports out there that Bob Dylan, I'm sorry, not Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen is cooperating with a biopic about the making of Nebraska. And Jeremy Allen White from The Bear, he plays Carmi on the Bear. Apparently he's in talks to be Bruce Springsteen in this movie. Which I actually like this idea for a movie because they're not doing, I think the problem with most biopics is that they try to do the entire, life story in like a two-hour movie. You know, it's like that part,

and at the beginning of Walk Hard where Dewey Cox is staring at a wall before he goes on stage and he's like, I need time to think about my entire life. You know? Like, it's such a, you know, and it ends up just being sort of like a CliffsNotes version of the person's life. I always think it's better to focus on like a specific

sort of period in a person's life. And the Nebraska period is very interesting for Springsteen. I mean, he, you know, was becoming a big rock star. And then he went into seclusion and he wrote all these very dark songs that he tried to play with the East Street band but didn't really translate with them. And he ended up putting out the record on his own. And then, of course, at the same time, he was working on Born in the USA, which ended up,

you know, being the biggest album of his career. And you can read about that in my book. There was nothing you could do coming out in May. But yeah, I don't know. I was just thinking about the parallels between Carmi on the bear in Bruce Springsteen. And like they are both obsessive people with depression in their background. They sometimes yell at their collaborators. They're both perfectionists.

One could say that Bruce Springsteen is a musical chef. So there's that as well. again, does this go into the Ian Cohen bubble at all? Do you have any interest in this movie? Absolutely. I mean, damn. Like, Carmi, I mean, if they're thinking about who to cast, it's like, who do we know, like, who wears a white,

who looks good in a white t-shirt? And, you know, this has been, like, Carmie for the... I get emails from GQ, like, you know, every third one is, like, the t-shirt that Jeremy Allen White wears. Yeah, I was thinking that, like, I think you'll probably cast the, I mean, this is total Grantland fanfic posting, but like, thinking about like how you can cast the entirety of the bear as the East Street man, you know, Claire can be Patty Calfa.

I think FAC is kind of a Stevie Van Zant type. Marcus can be Clarence. If not like a movie, maybe you can make like one of those like, one of those like musical episodes that Grey's Anatomy did back in the day. But yeah, I'm like interested in this because, yeah, like, no, Nebraska, like, I don't know a ton of the lore. Like, I know, like, the cliff notes, but, like, most of what I know about Nebraska, like, I imagine Bruce Springsteen, like, just kind of hold up in a basement for, like, a year writing this album,

which would be kind of like a nice bottle episode of the, of the bear, like, the one where, like, Karmie's trapped in the freezer. Spoiler alert, if you haven't seen season two. But, yeah, I'm loving this. I like this idea. It'll be interesting. I mean, I'm very interested in that period of his career, obviously. I do wonder how you make that cinematic.

because it is a guy writing songs and recording songs. And, you know, during that period, he was watching a lot of movies and, like, reading books, and he would go on drives late at night back to his hometown of Freehold, drive the streets and, you know, feel basically depressed and drawing on the inspiration. Because he was really inspired by his own childhood a lot at that time. Those songs are really about him sort of reflecting on his, youth and also like his dad and just the crazy life that his dad had and his dad being a very dark individual. And I don't know like how you dramatize that unless you're going to go into like the backstory with Douglas Springsteen and all that stuff.

I don't know, but I'm intrigued by it. And again, I like the idea of a biopic focusing on a specific era of a person's career. And I do like the casting of Jeremy Allen White. I like your bear as the East Street band idea because I think you could have all. Oliver Platt as John Landau. He's John Landau, I think, in this. And he kind of looks like John Landau a little bit. You'd have to, like, you know, shave some of his hair off.

So he, you know, so he'd have, like, the male pattern baldness. But other than that, I think that'd be a pretty good one. My question is, like, if this movie does exist, like, how hard is Jack Antonoff working behind the scenes to be involved in any way whatsoever? Don't let Jack Antonoff anywhere near this. Okay, please. Don't let them have like a walk-on role, like have him play Elvis Costello or something,

like wandering in at some point. Don't do that. Please, please. I beg you, don't do that. So this week, you know, you and I, we DM, trying to figure out what we're going to talk about on the show. And you brought up something that, I'm frankly, I want to know how you knew this.

Because you said it's the 20th anniversary of a particular album. And it's the kind of album that, you know, you're not going to see on stereo gum. Like they're not going to do a 20th anniversary column on this album. Or, you know, anyone else is not going to do a 20th anniversary coverage on it. I feel confident that we are going to be the only people talking about it. And it's very much an album worth remembering, though. And of course, I'm talking. about honking on Bobo,

Aerosmith, 20th anniversary, I believe it's March 30th, like this weekend? So did you have like a Google alert set up for honking on Bobo news? Like how did you know it's the 20th anniversary of this album?

So I have a qualm, I must correct you, it is honk in. It's got the apostrophe, not honking. Oh, I said honking? Yeah, it's honk in with the apostrophe.

We got to do it blues. Okay. I have a cold, so, you know, my speech is not as precise as it should be, but you're right. Because the honkin is very important. You know, it's like jazz. Like, the notes you don't play, it's the G's you don't pronounce. Like, those sometimes matter the most. And of course, this is like, this is the blues covers album that Aerosmith put out in 2004. But, like, the music on this album doesn't matter. It's the album title. It is one of the great joky album titles. I mean, it's not jockey on Aerosmith's part, but like in terms of, like, if you want to reference the title of an album for an easy joke, honking on Bobo is unparalleled. And it does deserve some recognition on its 20th anniversary.

Yeah, sometimes I'll, like, look at the Wikipedia of 2004 or whatever year it is because I'm thinking, like, I'll see like a bunch of 20th anniversary. or 10th anniversary pieces where I'm like, oh, that, that was cool.

Like, what can, what can I bring to the table? And it's like, well, someone obviously took mad villainy. You know, someone will probably have sung tongs coming up.

And it's like, but then you see like, oh, there was an orgy album released in 2004. It's like, oh, like Nellie's album. And honking on Bobo showed up.

And I was just astonished because, I mean, I had, this album shouldn't feel like it came. out in 2004. You know, like, there's nothing 2004 about it.

But, uh, and, you know, as I tend to do, I do a little bit of a deeper dive. And it turns out this album was supposed to, like, Aerosmith was planning to make this basically right after get a grip. Um, but then, and this is the 90s for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It would have been like mid-90s.

Yeah. And this is like, so everyone thinks like, oh, Nirvana came along and like a comet wiped out everything about the 80s? Well, no, because Eric Klapp... Erasmith didn't do their Blues cover album because Eric Clapton did the same exact thing that year. And so there's like, well, we can't...

I mean, granted, that album probably would have sold 5 million copies anyway. We would have probably bought it. You don't... I mean, we don't get a grip, right? Yeah, so like, okay, I... And by the way, I feel like we should briefly explain the album title. Yes. Honkin on Bobo,

it's referring to playing a harmonica. And I don't know if Bobo is a common euphemism for harmonica, or if, like, Stephen Tyler named his harmonica Bobo. I'm unclear on that, but it's honking on Bobo describes playing a harmonica. That's what the title means. But obviously, since it's Aerosmith, it's very easy to not read deeper into it, but read dirty into it. It sounds like some sort of weird sexual euphemism or double entendre or something.

But anyway, I went into the Wikipedia page for this, and it describes the story that you just told that Aerosmith wanted to do a blues coverage album in 1994, but then Eric Clapton came out with, I think it's called From the Cradle, is the blues album that Eric Clapton put out. And this is a quote, from the Wikipedia page is from Stephen Tower. We caught when that Clapton was doing it

and we went, fuck! That's the quote. So Stephen Tyler just scream the F word when he learned about from the cradle. And they had to wait a whole 10 years to put out their blues covers album. I don't know if that's like a rule. If like a legacy rock act,

if you put out a blues covers album, by law you must wait a decade until you make your own. I think you're right. I think they could have put it out in 94. Yeah, this could have been the spaghetti incident type thing where a bunch of kids are aged buy this album just because we love the videos

and all of a sudden realize I go, fuck, this is actually a bunch of bullshit covers. And then we would have had, it would have changed the discussion because people would have actually have heard honking on Bobo. Like right now, it's just the title. Like there are songs on it for sure, but like, I think one of my favorite kind of like side note is that I actually looked at the

AllMusic Guide Review, Steve Thomas Earl of Wine. He says it's their best album since Pump. So he's saying it's better than get a grip. Yes, or nine lives. How dare you? Or just press play. How dare you slander nine lives in such a way? Yeah, I mean, I think that this has to be one of the biggest like I've heard of the album title, but I've never heard the album albums ever you know like just the disparity between oh yeah I know that album title it's really funny have you heard a note of this record no I've never listened to it I actually did listen to a bit of it this morning just getting ready to uh record and I have to say like you know the blues covers that they're doing it's more of like the 60s rock band

type blues covers, you know, like what the yard birds did and like early Van Morrison, like that kind of stuff. So, hearing Aerosmith do like, baby, please don't go. I'm like, I actually do prefer this to like any original Aerosmith song of like the last 20 years.

It is funny. Like, I was looking at the Wikipedia page. There's like some Japanese edition of Honkuton Bobo. Like we're getting really granular here with Honkuton Bobo. analysis Bobocast

But there's some You know Import edition That includes The song jaded As a bonus It's wrong Yeah that's probably like

The Filet of Aerosmith 21st century Songs Like That's probably the best song That they put out Since 2000

Can we say that Is that too bold? Did it come out in 2000? Came out 2001 I looked it up Okay good Because I thought it was late 90s

That seemed like late. Me too. But apparently it was 2001. It was on just push play. Just push play. Big single from that one. And apparently VH1 called Jaded one of the 100 best songs of the 2000s. Wow.

When did they make that? Did they make it in 2001? I don't know. It came in at number 86 on their 100 list of the best songs of the 2000s. I mean, I think that's all we have to say about honking on Bobbo. Is there anything else to say? I think we've said more than even Stephen Tyler has said about this album. Yeah, I looked up whether Bobo is a standard issue terminology for Harmonica.

When I look up Bobo Harmonica on Google, all that comes up is honking on Bobo. I think this is just like a, I think this is like a bespoke type of thing. Or it's like a tribute to, you know, like Mr. Burns is basing. I love how we This isn't SRV cast But I think this is close enough Within the Guitar World universe Yeah

Because I remember in the 90s You would get You know the tablature For like a Green Day song One for like yes And like another for like Whatever blues album came out that that year You know

Because there was the Jimmy Hendrix blues album I got too Which was just Extremely dull It was like 85 minutes long So yeah blues cast Yeah I think we need to devote like five minutes to blues rock every episode from now on. Next week, we're going to talk about Johnny Lang.

Oh, yeah. His 2000s era work. So if you guys, like, want to dig into early Johnny Lang albums to prepare for next week's episode, that would be a good idea. Let's get to our quarter to fantasy albums draft. The quarter one season ends today. and you won, right? You blew me away. Like, what was the final score?

It's, as of this recording, it's, I have 436 and you have 419. And I'll just say there's like one like nuclear possibility. The Jalen album hasn't been reviewed by pitchfork yet. So I'm like just one, because like Metacritic scores like scoring formulas proprietary. It's not just like add and divide. So like if Jalen got a two. or something, I wonder if that would lower it enough to matter. I mean, that's not happening.

This is an album that has like Bjork and Philip Glass on it. But yeah, I think it's a pretty comfortable, pretty comfortable victory for yours, truly. So what did J. Len, like, what does Jalen have at the moment, you know? 85. 85, okay. Which I think might be my lowest scored album of the five I chose. Yeah, man, you just, man, you blew me away. God, damn it.

It makes me mad. Okay, but it's over now. You've won the last two. You've won our first two drafts. The last two drafts and the first two drafts. It's the same, one in the same. So this is the third draft. Third time's the charm for me.

I'm feeling good about it. You aren't going to pick. We know one album you're not going to pick. You said that you're not going to take the howdy album. Yeah. Because you've got to decue that one. Yeah, we got to deque that one. It's not the first time.

Like we either you're. I've written about an album that's kind of in the mix. But this one actually, this is like the first time I'll have written for something like written for a Metacritic scored publication. So we, you know, with all the gambling talk that we've done on the last episode, I want to maintain the integrity of our fantasy draft. But if you're doing your own fantasy draft, feel free to use this information. You should benefit from listening to Indycast.

So are you reviewing it for Pitchfork? Yes. Okay. Can we, well, let's see. I was going to ask how you feel about the record, but maybe I shouldn't do that. It's fucking awesome. Yeah, you can. I love the record.

It's great. Okay, well, maybe that will move up my draft board here then. I feel like I've got some insider information. Because I am also going to be writing about albums that we're drafting, but I don't give numerical scores to albums. And Metacritic doesn't include Uprocks for whatever reason, even though they do include publications I've never heard of. Like a lot of websites and publications I've never heard of. No Love for Up Rocks, that's okay for me

because that means I can draft anything I want here. So in terms of deciding who picks first, because are we going to do the thing like where the person picks first and then the next person gets the next two picks? So we can do a snake draft. I'm also going to give you the opportunity. What if we did like you pick first? then I pick second, you pick first, I pick second.

Just to kind of see if like, yeah, like what, just because, you know, with the, it's sort of like being, you know, in the NBA finals, you get two games at home, then the next guy gets like two games away. Like, I figure, I want to make the, I want to put an interesting wrinkle because we've done the snake style draft the last two times. I'm going to let you pick first in each round. Okay. Okay, so we're just going to do one, one, just like back and forth.

Yeah, I want to see what happens. I want to see what happens this way. Let's make it interesting. Okay, so you're letting me go first. Yes. Okay. Okay, so this is the thing. There's a Taylor Swift album coming out.

I think it's coming out in April. And that seems like an obvious number one. But I wonder if we are in a course correction mode a little bit with Taylor Swift. if that album's going to be as ecstatically reviewed as some of her other ones. I could see a little bit of slippage with that one. So I'm going to go with Jessica Pratt as my number one pick. Were you going to pick that first? That was definitely on the top of my board as like I think this is going to get the highest score of anything on my draft board.

Plus also I know that it's on your mind. So yeah, that would have been both a, that was a very tactful. tactical number one choice for me, but I kind of figured we'd be in this situation, but that's a good choice. Yeah. Tell our listeners why it's such a good choice. Well, okay, you know, Jessica Pratt, it's going to be her first album in five years. She is generally a very well-reviewed artist. I think she's going to have that, like what Waxahatchy had, where it's been a while since you put out a record, and we just really want to give you your flowers with this record. In addition to it, being a really good record. Like, I've heard this album. I like it a lot. I think critics are going to like it.

So it's a combination of her delivering, a really good record. And also, I think, just the stage being set for people wanting to love this record. So I just feel like strong possibility for like a high eight, maybe even a low nine with this, with this album. So I feel good. That's my number one pick. Yeah, very high, like very high floor for this record. You know, it's been it's been it's been it's been a year for like um this kind of artist and i think that this one just because there's i think a little more novelty to jessica pratt than even say like waxahatchie or adrian linker um yeah this one's like this one feels like a slam dunk uh so yeah good good pick um all right so as as far as my own like um i want to be i want to just we've talked in the past

about the album that gets like really well reviewed by a small cohort of like older dudes. I know what you're going with this. I know where you're going, I think. Sorry. This is, if you pick this, this was going to be my number two. All right. I'm feeling really good about this then. So we are two 40 mid, two dudes in our mid 40s.

And so you can never underestimate the hold that Portishead had on people of our age. So I'm going to go with Beth Gibbons. Her first solo album, I feel like, I don't think this is going to do like Portis head numbers, but I like it as a defensive move. And I also just think that, like, you're going to get, you're going to get like, you know, the super chunk. I guess that's the best way I can describe it. Like, you're going to get like the mid-40s, an older person reviewing it.

They're going to like it. I think untethered from like the kind of trip hop sort of thing that. Portishead keeps on getting ascribed to for better or worse. I feel like this is a solid pick. So that wasn't what I had in mind. I had that on my board, but I thought you were going to say something else that I think also has strong appeal for like the middle-aged music critic. Fuck, I know what you're picking because this is going to be my number two.

Okay, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Because we keep guessing wrong here, but I'm going to go with MDU Machdar as the number two. That was it. Yeah. Because, you know, I'm a fan of him. I think he makes really good records.

I think that it's sort of critic proof. Like, I don't see someone who wouldn't be into that kind of music. And again, it's like African guitar music, essentially. So it's like really like the shreddiest kind of indie rock that is well reviewed at this point. And he makes really good records. You know, there's other artists that work in this vein, but he's really kind of become like the figurehead of that kind of music. and I just feel like he's a lock for like an 85 at least.

So, yeah, you were... See, that's what I thought you were going to say as your number one pick. I think Beth Gibbons is a good pick, but... Yeah, to me, I feel like there's no way this album isn't well reviewed. I think the people who like it are going to review it, and they're going to probably be into it. And I've heard the record, and I think it's a really good record. I think it's not exactly...

you know, breaking with the previous records. I mean, it feels very much of a piece, like with what we've heard from this artist in the recent past, but it's still really good. And for like the middle-aged rock critic, I think this kind of record is just money in the bank. It really is. That's a great. That's a great strategic pick. And like the moment I picked like Beck Givens, I'm like, fuck, I should have.

Yeah. Because, like, my only, my only qualm with Mdu Moktar is that maybe people, like, went to, maybe people got, like, their, you know, raves out on the last album. So maybe they won't be as enthusiastic about this. But, yeah, that's the only, that's the only way this, I mean, but otherwise it's fucking money in the bank. Like, this is a, this is a, this is like a, a guarantee 85 or better. And I think Pitchfork already did a feature for this record. Which tells me that they like the record and it's going to be well reviewed. So, and I think, again, the person on staff or in the freelancer pool who you would give this record to, they're going to like the record. I just don't see a scenario. I mean, I guess there might be a situation where people give it like a 7.5. You know, and maybe they, kind of like what you're saying, maybe they don't rave about it, but I don't know.

I feel pretty confident about it. So we'll see what happens, but I like it. There's another artist kind of in the similar vein that I wonder if you're going to take next based on your previous draft history. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. I might. Oh, God. Not, not. Okay.

So I'm going to, gosh, I feel like I'm already on the back foot right now. And I'm just going to kind of go with the inside information that I have. from you, which is that this album is good. And so, you know, this is kind of like chalky pick, but I'm going to go with Vampire Weekend. Again, this is sort of like Taylor Swift in that, you know, perhaps that we've, this is, maybe now that people are less enthusiastic about, it does not seem that, I mean, people like the first couple singles. And we're going to talk about this album next week.

But, yeah, I feel as if this is just kind of volume score. to use a term of art. But also, I feel like you would pick this if I didn't. So we're going to go with Vampire Weekend at the number two slot. I've heard the record, and I like it a lot. I'll say that right off the bat here. I do wonder how it's going to be reviewed. I just get the sense from the buzz about the early songs.

Like you say, I think people generally like them. But I don't know. feels like a high seven, maybe low eight to me. I just have that feeling. I don't know if people are going to rave about this album. I think they're going to like it. It's going to be well received. But that's why I didn't pick it earlier.

You know, because I feel like Vampire Weekend typically, you know, they especially in the first three records, it'd be just money in the bank. You take Vampire weekend. Father of the bride, I think, changed their reception a little bit. A lot of people love that record, including me. But, you know, there were also people who felt like,

oh, it's too long. Don't really like the jam band influences. And this new record is basically a return to more of the aesthetic of the early records. But I just wonder, you know,

are they like the, are they like in the MGMT camp? Yeah, I guess that album was pretty well reviewed too, but it's like the middle age indie rock band. Sometimes critics are weird with that. You don't know if people are going to be like, oh,

we're glad that they're back or, oh, are they still around? You know, like, it's a weird thing. So, I don't know. It's a risky pick,

for sure. The father of the bride had an 82. But, you know, I think whatever... I kind of feel like this new record will get about that. I could see the new one getting like an 81, 82. Again, well reviewed, but maybe not ecstatic. You know, because it's not the hot new thing anymore. Like, they're a veteran band. Making really good records, but, yeah, I don't know.

It'll be interesting to see. So you're at, we're at number three for you. Number three. By the way, Contra, 81 on Metacritic. Really? Yeah. Oh, man. I mean,

my favorite vampire weekend album, but... I mean, modern vampires must be high eight. Yeah, that one was like across the board. Yeah, Metacritics, like, search function sucks. But, yeah, I would say, like, I'm guessing that's going to be like a 90 or so. Modern vampires, 84? Wow. Man, I did not do my fucking homework, man.

Man, that seems low. I don't know how they're... Alternative press gave it a two. Oh. They're taking revenge on the indie rock band. You know, they're... That was probably like in the... You know, that's the time like when you really started writing about emo and stuff.

But there was like that generation of emo writers that were like super resentful of like mainstream indie rock. That feels like a revenge type score to me giving that too. I can respect that. So number three, I'm going to take a page from your book. I thought you were going to maybe take this at number two. So I'm going to take a number three. I'm going to say Kamasi Washington at number three. I knew it.

Again, we've talked about this before. The jazz artist that indie rock critics write about, you know, Kamasi Washington is like the superstar example of that. I mean, there are other examples of that, obviously, but I feel like Kamasi Washington going back to the epic, you know, like that was like this triple album jazz record that just ended up on a bunch of year-endless. And kind of like Mdu Mokdar,

I feel like the people that are going to write about this record will be inclined to endorse it. So I'm kind of going with the strategy of maybe this doesn't get a ton of reviews, but the reviews that it gets will be generally favorable. And again, I'm hoping for like mid-eighths for this. So that's going to be my number three, Kamasi Washington. A solid pick. It's like offensive line.

It's like picking like a left tackle in the top ten. It's not the sexiest pick, but it's definitely going to get you what you need. That's a solid pick. Well, again, I feel like I'm taking a page from you here. I'm very influenced by you because you are. Winning strategy. You are. You know, like you're like the Kansas City Chiefs.

You're back-to-back champs and the rest of the league. They're going to look at what you do, and they're going to, they're going to copy it. And by the way, this Kamasi Washington record is called Fearless Movement. It comes out in May. This is the first Kamasi Washington record where it's just him, not in collaboration with other people. It's his first record in six years. So again, you have that as well, the first album in several years. I think that's often a harbinger of good reviews.

So another sort of check in his column there. All right. So you're number three. What do you got? All right. So I'm going to take a pay. So I think it would be good to do back to back just on jazz just to kind of show my thought process. So I was considering Kamasi.

It's on my short list. That being said, I do wonder. whether, you know, Kamasi, Washington is maybe old news to the jazz people, which is why I'm going with Shabaka. Shabaka Hutchings, he is a saxophonist who plays with Sons of Komet and the comet is coming. These are kind of some of the cooler jazz projects to come out of the UK recently. I think this new album has floating points on it. It has Andre 3000 playing jazz flute. And I think this is his first solo album. And, oh, Luraji's on it, which, you know, that's an Esperanza Spalding.

This has got some hot names. And, you know, I don't have any inside information about, like, what Pitchfork thinks about any record. But what I do know is that every time, well, not every time, maybe 90% of the time when I click on the editor, Jeremy Larson's Instagram stories, he's posting a jazz album. So I think that's, I think it's a pretty safe bet that this guy's going to do well there. And I do see it listed in the Metacritic preview. So we might not have a VJI or situation where this guy might not actually end up there. So we're going to go, we're having a jazz run in the third round. That's a great pick.

I actually think your thinking there is very sound. Shabaka versus Kamasi for the jazz pick. I'm kind of angry with myself for not taking Shabaka. I considered that, but I didn't do it. I was like, Kamasi hasn't put out on a record in a while. I feel like he's due, but yeah,

that's a good pick. I feel like people are going to be all over that. Taylor Swift still on the board. Man, who would have thought that Taylor Swift would drop to the fourth round? Randy Moss status, yeah. I think we're both in the same both, though. Are you thinking that she's going to slip with critics a little bit with this album?

I think critics are ready at this point to write negative things. about her. I just have a feeling. It's like, it's kind of like a weird concept. What is it? The tortured poet society or whatever. Like, it's kind of like a weird note. Yeah, there's no singles released yet either. So we're just kind of going, we're just really just going off vibes. Yeah. Again, we have no idea like how good this album is or not. I just, I just feel like there's, she's due for some kind of backlash, you know? And I, and again, I don't think. like this album is going to be getting like a 4.9 or something. But I could see it getting like a low 7.

7.2, 7.3, something like that. So that scares me. Even though you have very friendly Taylor Swift outfits out there that are just a guaranteed 100, I feel like. I'm really trying to decide whether I should take her or not. See, this is where the draft is won and lost. Fourth and fifth round, I think. this is where you end up picking the album that underperforms and it kills you.

So I'm really unsure of what to do here. I'm going to throw, I'm throwing into coverage right here. I don't feel great about this pick. I'm going to go with Maggie Rogers at number four. I just feel like she's one of those people that like hasn't totally crushed it with critics. But I think that there is a lot of, positive sort of feeling about her.

I mean, I don't know anything about this record. Have you heard any singles from this record? I know they exist. Music exists, yes. So, the last album did better, the last album did better with critics than the first one. I think the first album,

like, it was still like, oh, this is just the person who went viral off the Farrell video. But I think people are, I think, and I think a lot, she's done a lot of work to present herself

as a, like, very serious artist. So I think this is, this was, I thought about it, but yeah, I think it's,

it's an interesting pick for sure. So this album is called, but I haven't heard the singles. Yeah, it's called don't forget about, don't forget me, and it comes out in April. I just feel like this is going to be a 7.8,

and I'm going to be pissed at myself. Like in three months, looking back, like, fuck, why did I take Maggie Rogers? But I'm going to, I'm going to stick with her.

I don't know. I just think, The sort of slightly alt-leaning pop singer, there's always a strong critical support for that kind of artist. And if she even gets close to making a great record, I think people will praise it to the heavens. So I'm banking on that. I'm banking on this being like her best record and critics really kind of seizing upon that and maybe over-praising it. So fingers crossed with Maggie Rogers. Don't feel hugely confident about it, though.

I do think this is, I like your strategy here because, I mean, even if it isn't, I do think that, you know, in addition to like, I do think in addition to like the, you know, the Waxahatchy, Jessica Pratt, Adrian Lanker sort of wave, I do think that Maggie Rogers represents a style of music that even if it isn't cool, it'll be well revealed. viewed. So I do, I see the vision here. It was not, it probably wasn't on my, in a pinch. If this went like 10 rounds, I'd probably take it. Right. Okay, man. Well, what's your number four? All right. So, this one's also going a bit on a limb. I'm going to go with NIA archives. Not, you know, not to be confused with Sudan archives, but this is an artist who I've, I've, real, I've enjoyed her work. Over the past couple of years. She's sort of in that like pink pantherist kind of mode from the UK. It kind of has like some drum and bass style, you know, electronic underpinnings. And her

album comes out in April, April 12th. It's on Island Records. So it's her, it's called Silence is Loud. I mean, that just strikes me as being like, you know, that sounds like, that's like the album title of something that would be well reviewed. You know, I think this is a little risky in the sense that on the one hand, she's released mostly EPs and there's never been like a moment for people to coalesce around. On the other, the fact that she's on island makes me wonder whether this is going to experience kind of like, you know, the last Pink Panther's album sort of thing where maybe it feels a little played out or maybe it's like, you know, two major label.

It's a bit of a calculated risk, but I feel pretty confident that, uh, you know, UK publications, similar to Yard Act, they're going to help me out here. All right. That's a good pick. So, last pick. I've got three artists on my board right now. I've got Taylor Swift. I have Dive.

And I have Shalak. Talk about it. All three were on mine. Great festival bill there. Shalak, first album in 10 years. You also have the element of the, person who's going to review Shalak is probably going to love it. And no one else will care.

So you have that factor going on. Dive, I want to pick just because that's one of my favorite albums that I've heard this year. I just don't know how well it'll be reviewed generally. And then Taylor Swift, just because she's Taylor Swift. I got to take Taylor Swift. Fifth round, she can't go undrafted. Even with my concerns about backlash, I feel like you got to take Taylor Swift. She fell this far.

Even if there is a backlash, I don't think it'll be a big one. I still think she'll probably land at least in the early 80s. I have a hard time believing that over. Because again, like, even if like pitchfork is sort of like ho-hum on the record, you're going to have like the Rolling Stones out there. You know, like Rolling Stone magazine and like other like the Guardian. like places that seem to just rubber stamp perfect scores on her records. I don't see why that wouldn't continue with this one, and that'll bring the score up.

So I really wanted to go a dive. That's like my sentimental, my personal choice, but I'm going to be pragmatic and go with Taylor Swift as my fifth pick. Yeah, this is more like a baseball, like a baseball draft situation, because sometimes you'll have like a high school player who's like represented by Scott Boris, and he's like, yeah, we're not signing for like less than 15 million. And so the Pittsburgh Pirates, like, you can fucking forget about it. And it's that this is how the person slips in the draft in a team like, you know,

the Dodgers can afford to sign people. So look, I would have probably picked this if you didn't. So it's a good pick. I do think that it's, yeah, I, it's going to get well reviewed. Like every, it feels like every single Taylor Swift down, we're thinking, oh, this is going to be the one where people finally turn on her. do think this one has a greater possibility than in years past, but it's a good pick. I can't front.

All right, man. What's your last pick? All right, so I'm going to kind of go with not too dissimilar for my previous one. There's a new Yaya Bay album coming out. This is a R&B artist on Big Dada, which is, it's sort of like, you know, a label that's a little more kind of hip and underground. but her previous album, Remember Your North Star, was the number nine album on Pitchforks 2002 list.

So I think it's pretty fair to say that the floor is pretty high for this one. You know, I think that in addition to that, a lot of, I don't think their last time was on Metacritic. So we're going to get some catch up from people, like some makeup scores for the last one. Her album 10fold comes out in May. You know, we talk, I think in all three of our drafts, we talk about like how kind of left, left of center R&D is kind of the true north for critics nowadays. So this one feels, this one feels like a, if not a very high ceiling, very, or if not a very high floor, it's a high ceiling.

So I'm not going to lie. Like my picks Vampire Weekend, Beth Gibbons, Nia Archive, Shabaca, Yaya Bay. I don't feel as confident in this bunch as I have in the previous two. but, you know, I do think it, I like my picks, but I think you got the better slate right now. All right, well, let's review our teams. Ian, you have Beth Gibbons, Vampire Weekend, Shabaka Hutchins, Nia Archives, and Yahya Bay. I have Jessica Pratt, Mdu Mokdar, Kamasi Washington, Maggie Rogers, and bringing up the rear Taylor Swift.

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like these teams It feels harder to predict What we're gonna do in this quarter Because I feel like any one of these could really hit it out of the park Or any one of these could underperform Like I don't feel hugely confident I guess I feel good

I feel like Jessica Pratt I feel pretty confident about that I would be really surprised that that album's not well reviewed But the rest of my pick I feel like could just do okay. They could just be well reviewed, but not ecstatically reviewed. And looking at yours, I don't know. Like you, the Shabaka Hutchins pick, I think is really good.

That's a really strong pick. And I think Beth Gibbons is really strong. So you can't predict. That's why you play the fantasy draft games. You don't know what's going to happen ahead of time. But yeah. It'll be fun to see it play out. And I finally have to beat your ass, man.

I have to beat your ass, finally. All right, we've now reached a part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so I'm a little nervous about this one because, you know, it's Brazilian. I don't totally know how to pronounce it. As a matter of fact, I had the email the person at the label saying, hey, I'm going to talk about this album on the podcast.

Can you, like, give me a phonetic pronunciation? So this is for a Brazilian shoegaze artist called Sonios Tomom Kanta. It is on the Longinus Records, which, you know, that's the label that launched Paranul a few years back is Asian Glow as well. Pretty big amongst the, if you frequent rate your music or album of the year, you know who this project is. And, you know, kind of similar to when I listen to like Emo from non-English-speaking countries, a lot of the shows. A lot of the shoegays I come across, you know, international shoegays, for lack of a better term, it's a little disappointing because no matter where it's from, it always ends up sounding like it's, you know, from the UK or from America. And I always have wanted more shoegaze bands to integrate the sound of the country they're actually from. This album actually does it.

You know, the past, they've kind of done more of like a screamo shoegaze thing. but this record, which is called Corpus de Agua, it starts with Brazilian music and makes it shoegaze. So it's got like the Nile on string guitars. It's got the hollow percussion and those chord changes that remind you more of like Milton Nassimento. But even though the production sounds more like slow dive. So I've never really heard an album do this sort of thing before.

There's also a cover of Scarbo Fair on here. I'm still absorbing this album. It comes out today. And, you know, I think, I don't even know if it's been like announced before. But I know it comes out today. And I'm just absorbing what it does. I can guarantee you've not heard anything like this. And so that alone makes it worth recommending.

So, yeah, Sonios Tomom Conta. I really hope I didn't butcher that. But that's the one. Do you want to spell that out for people so they know. call. Yeah. So, all right, it is S-O-N-H-O-S, next word, T-O-M-O-S, next word, C-O-N-T-A. There you go. That sounds really interesting. I'm going to definitely check that out once we get done recording here. I have to talk about one of our mascot bands, Wild Pink. They put out an EP. And it's funny because this EP was announced at the exact minute we started recording last

week's podcast. So if it had been announced like 15 minutes earlier, we could have maybe talked about it last week. And I told John Ross, who's the main guy in Wild Pink, you need to coordinate your album announcements with Indycast recording times because we will talk about your record if we know about it in advance. But this is a three-song EP put up by Wild Pink. And again, we've talked about this band a lot. One of our favorite bands of the 2020s. And this EP, it's really interesting.

It's a bit of a departure from the previous records, which I would say, like, if I was just giving a shorthand description of what Wild Pink sounds like, it's like the meeting point between the war on drugs and death cap for QD. Like, that would be a somewhat reductive, but nonetheless fairly active. way to describe what this band sounds like. And this EP is really John Ross working by himself in the studio, working with a drum machine, a much more sort of paired back sound, but it still has that vast synth rock sound that we all know and love

from the previous Wild Pink Records. And again, there's only three tracks on here. And really, it's like two full-fledged songs. And then like the last track is sort of like a sonic skis. sketch that is, I think, comes and goes in less than a minute. But it's a really good EP. I like all the songs a lot. My sense is that this is probably a preview of maybe an album coming in the future.

I'm saying this without knowing for sure. I have some knowledge maybe or feeling about it, but this feels like a preview of like where Wild Pink is going next. And based on these songs, I think it's going to be more greatness from this band. So I assume you've heard the CP too. Yeah, Wild Pink does not write like less than great songs. And I do think we should mention that the single and the opening track is called Air Drumming Fix You, which is, I mean, you want to talk about mascot bands to go to like talk X and Y Cole Play. Hell yeah.

John Ross, shout to you. But yeah, I'm stoked. It's been, you know, coming up on a year and a half slash two years since the last record. and, you know, wild pink is nothing, if not prolific. I, fingers crossed that we got a new album coming by the end of the year. Yeah. And if it does, it's going to be great. I know they're touring right now with the Ravenettes, which is interesting.

So I might get to see them possibly preview some record, some songs off the potentially new record. Yep. But for now, this EP, again, it's called Strawberry Eraser. Really good. Check it out if you haven't already. That about does it for this episode. of Indycasts. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Tate newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.