Indiecast - A New Rock Opera By Car Seat Headrest + The Best 'CD Album' Albums

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

Steven and Ian open this week with a conversation about financial woes at the LP subscription service Vinyl Me Please, and what this says about the "Big Vinyl" industry (1:16). They also talk about Steven's recent column on the most "CD album" albums, and why certain records work better on compact disc (9:38).In the Fantasy Album Draft update, they talk about new records by Model/Actriz and Jenny Hval (22:13). Then they review The Scholars, the latest album by Car Seat Headrest, along with discussing the band's career (29:28). In the mailbag, a reader asks about albums made by comedians, including a recent effort by Kyle Mooney, as well as a "yay or nay" verdict on They Might Be Giants (44:08).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talk about the new album by Club Night while Steven goes for the latest from The Convenience (56:17).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 237 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the new album by Car Seat Headrest and some old CD album albums. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's still waiting for his vinyl copy of Bleed American from Vinyl Me Please.

Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? Okay, so that's not entirely true because I actually, like one of the few albums I did buy on vinyl was Bleed American. I bought it at Coachella in 2011. It was like a triple disc like Coachella exclusive. I bonded with the band Colts over it. What I am waiting for is my very rare vinyl copy of the Jimmy Eat World self-titled album, which got its name changed after 9-11 before they changed it back. Well, we can talk about this in a minute, but I would argue that Fleet American is definitely a CD album, not a vinyl album.

Oh, absolutely. We can have a disagreement about that. But my little intro there was referencing a story that came out this week, and maybe some of you are aware of this because you're a customer at Vinyl Me Please. But Vinyl Me Please, the popular LP subscription service, you pay $44 a month, and they send you, hopefully, more than one record. I hope you're getting more than one record for 44 bucks. I'm guessing you get two, like 22 bucks per. But anyway, they've been having some business problems apparently. There was a story. This was picked up by aggregators, but the Denver Post originally published a report detailing weeks of alleged unfulfilled orders from the company. I'm reading from the stereo gum

brief about this with dozens of frustrated customers saying they haven't been able to get refunds even get in touch with customer service. Stereo gum reader Paul emailed this and they echoed many of these complaints saying I was a subscriber for 10 years, but I also saw the writing on the wall. I discontinued my service in March. I have two outstanding, unfulfilled orders. I can live with losing 75 bucks, but there are people out there in the hole for hundreds and in some case over $1,000?

Jeez. Holy mackerel. That's a lot of missing. vinyl of what I wonder what the vinyl records were that were being sent on the front page of vinyl me please which is maybe the first time I've ever been on that website the first thing you see is daddy Yankee like his most popular album which okay look I'm not a reggaeton expert but like that's just like a very digital format of music it's very MP3 it's very like hear it on your phone right it's sort of like when I started to see like 50 cent get rich or die trying on vinyl. I'm like that is a, yeah, you really need like the, like the, it brings out the warmth and nuance of many men, you know. Right. You know, okay, full disclosure here. I have worked with vinyl me please in the past. They paid me to write liner notes for two of their albums. One was, did that check clear? Oh, the check has long cleared. So no worries there. Vinyl me please is okay in my book. But yeah, they, they,

I wrote liner notes for jailbreak by Thin Lizzie, and I wrote liner notes for number four by Stone Temple Pilots, which apparently didn't end up in the record because their management didn't approve of the liner notes ahead of time. So there was an essay on the website, I guess, but it didn't end up in the record. Either way, the check cleared, I don't mind. The thing that always confused me about Finally Please is,

the is the name, the construction of the name. I'm thinking that there was a saying in the past that was blank, me, please. Like, I'm picturing like a bumper sticker that says, coffee me please, like if you're a coffee fan or wine me please, if you're a wine mom or beer me, please, if you're an alcoholic dad. I mean, was that a thing? Because I'm assuming that they didn't invent that phrase. construction that it's playing off of something. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

Like, this whole enterprise seems very Obama core. And I could imagine, like, if it wasn't vinyl me, please, it would be, but first, comma, vinyl. Well, I was thinking, I was thinking, like, they probably had, like, got vinyl. That was probably in the running, you know, instead of got milk, because that was a, that's a little, I think that's kind of like a pre-vinyl phrase. I know, but I'm just saying that, you know, these phrase, that get invented by some ad wizard to be on bumper stickers or to sell whatever and then they just get co-opted by other people because I guess you can't copyright me please you know you uh you can't like make that your own thing so other people can copy it I feel like in the room when they were trying to figure out what to call themselves it was either vinyl me please or got vinyl I'm willing to bet that got vinyl was in the running and I think that should have won. I think they would actually still be doing okay if they were called got vinyl.

Yeah, but I think I think finally please is like very much of its era. Like the idea of having a curated vinyl service is so 2008-ish. And, you know, I think that I'm not shocked that this is going out of business. I am and I'm also not shocked that it's still going because there's always going to be for whom this is appealing, you know, in the same way that a lot of bookstores still have, like, curated book deals every single month. But that's actually, like, super useful. Yeah, I mean, I'm not against the idea. I can see it. I mean, I make a lot of jokes about vinyl on this podcast, and we're going to talk in a minute about this column I wrote this week about

CD albums, and I'm a big fan of the compact disc. But I do like vinyl. I own a lot of vinyl. The jokes I make are usually related to what I've seen in the vinyl industry in the last 10 to 15 years, which is the proliferation of big vinyl. We'll call them that. The vinyl industry, which has changed this activity that used to be fun. Like you would go to a thrift store, you go to a record store, and you could find cool records that cost 10 to 15 bucks. And at some point, that went away, and now everything cost.

you know, 30 to 45 or $50 or, you know, you've got like the multiple additions, like with the colored vinyl, all that stuff. And I mean, vinyl me please, they feel like they're part of that. I mean, I know that there's other things that have gone on with them. I don't want to just say that the vinyl bubble is bursting. Like, in that Denver Post story, there's a thing about how there were people that used to work at vinyl me please that are accused of, like, redistributing funds to a separate project to set up a pressing plant and like now they have their own company. Like they took like 200 grand from vinyl. So there's some weird business things going on.

But I don't know. It does feel like vinyl collecting just in general is a much bigger drag than it was than what it used to be. Yeah, I think that there was that whatever that Adele album was that you would see like 1,200 vinyl copies, like just not being bought. Maybe that's like the REM monster of the new vinyl bubble. But, yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of sad to see how this is all going down because, you know, like a lot of earnest people are losing, like, as the story was saying, like, up to $1,000 or something like that.

That's crazy. Yeah. Whereas. You're just waiting for your vinyl records to show up and you're like, okay, didn't show up last month, but it's going to show up this month. I have faith in the vinyl me please people. and they're just taking money out of your account. Well, I know that it starts at $44,

but maybe there's like a more advanced monthly one where you pay like $200 and you get like the rare, clear like Cola Bleed American copy. But I mean, at least- Jack Wife comes to your house and he presses records right in front of you. That's like for $10,000 a month. Yeah, I mean, at least with Columbia House, you know, you would ghost them and they'd be out of like,

whatever, five bucks until they said you. They definitely sent my parents a notice. That's true. After the fifth alias I used to get like Billy Joel like River of Dreams. Wow. Which, oh my God, was that on your list? No, I didn't have. That was on the longer list like of records I was considering.

I did have River of Dreams, but I ended up putting 52nd Street on there instead because that is the first commercially sold CD. Billy Joel's 52nd Street. I didn't want to have two Billy Joel albums on the list. So I just put one. I mean, this is a good transition I guess to talk about the column I wrote this week, which you can

read on Up Rocks. It's about the most seedy album albums of all time. And the idea was, in much the same way that people talk about vinyl, they say, well, you've got to hear this on vinyl. Like the right way to play Crosby Still's and Nash self-titled is on

vinyl or kind of blue you got to hear that, Miles Davis, you got to hear that on vinyl, he can't listen to it on CD. I was applying that concept to CDs and what albums just make the most sense on CD and would be weird if you heard it in any other format and certainly if you heard it on vinyl, it'd be weird. And I was writing about records like undertow by Tool

that has all the extra tracks with blank space and then on track 69 you hear, disgustipated. You know, I talked about Metallica's load, you know, an album that on the cover of the record, they had a sticker that said 7859. That's how long the album was. And they alleged that they couldn't go one second above 78-59 or else the CD would start skipping. It was like supposedly the most amount of music you could put on a CD.

Talked about car CDs, like the phenomenon of that, a CD you keep in your car. Talking about Snoop Dogg, Doggy style. the definitive, in my mind anyway, skit album of the CD rap era, talking specifically about W. Balls, maybe the greatest skit of all time on any hip-hop album. So, you know, the idea was, again, like talk about albums that I really sort of associate with that era, really trying to capture the flavor of the times.

And, like, when I was writing the column, one concern I had was, am I making fun of CDs too much? because there's a lot of like joky, not jockey entries, but entries of albums that aren't great, but they are most CD. Like, they're not the best CD, they're the most CD. Like, I put big ones by Aerosmith on the list

because it's a greatest hits album that came out in 94, and it's a greatest hits album of just like the last three Aerosmith albums. So it's like a greatest hits album for a period that, like, a kid buying that record, it's like the albums that they were most likely to have already. But in the CD era, you could just have greatest hits albums come out over and over again. Aerosmith, I look this up, has 15 greatest hits albums. They have 15. I mean, I know they have 15 hits, but. Oh, that's what I mean, I made that joke.

I mean, they have 15 greatest hits albums and maybe 15 genuinely good songs, you know, but they have as many greatest hits albums as they do good songs. but I was like, am I roasting CDs too much? Because I genuinely love CDs. And there are albums that I genuinely love to listen to in that format. But I think the response to the column affirmed my approach. I think people could see the affection that I had for the format. I think that came through.

There's also a lot of albums that I genuinely love in that format. I mean, new miserable experience by Jim Blossoms. I don't want to give my whole list away, but that's in the top five. That's an album where I had a rule that if I was ever and a half-priced books or in any U-CD store and I saw a copy of New Miserable Experience for $2 or less that I would buy it, and it got to the point where I had enough copies of that album to put in every car I ever owned, every room in my house, every room in my neighbor's house. I had to stop at some point, but a great CD album, you came out at me,

on Twitter and actually made me feel remorse because you mentioned something we've talked about on this show more than once, which is the phenomenon of the Best Buy 699 CD, which was really something that became a thing I feel like in the early 2000s. And I didn't mention that in the column. And, you know, people obviously mentioned records that they would have mentioned in the column, but your thing was one of the ones that made me go, oh, yeah. he's right. I should have done that. So do you have any other, like, thoughts on this, things I missed or just CD albums for you that

really stand out? Well, I mean, with the Best Buy ones, those don't have the omnipresent of a new miserable experience. Like, it's a very specific type of, like, going in the store and seeing it, but not necessarily owning it. So I think that's fine. I think that this article did a very, very good job of discerning between the most CD albums and just albums that were popular in 1994. One thing I will push back on is that if we're talking the best skit of especially

like death row albums, it's got to be the $20 sack pyramid. But I own the chronic on cassette. So I think that it, Doggy Style is absolutely CD. Yeah, and again, I just feel like W. Balls, that is a skit. Because I feel like most skits, if they were a standalone track, it'd be something that you would just instinctively skip. I mean, some people would actually make the skis. part of the track, like they would put it maybe at the end of a song.

Well, D's Nuts was that way on the chronic. That was like the song and the D's Nuts phone call. Yeah, so, you know, that was a bit of a dirty trick. You know, if you wanted to avoid the skits, you couldn't do it if they did it that way. But I feel like W. Balls is the rare skit that people would skip to because you wanted to hear W. Balls. Like, that was actually appointment listening for people. So that's why I wanted to write about that.

Yeah, and I think that's totally fair. But yeah, dyes out way more CD than the chronic. But, you know, the first one on the list was big ones. And I think that's a great choice. But get a grip seems so much more definitive CD. It's got the white, like, CD case. It's got the CD, I believe, had like all five members of aerosmiths, like, pressing their nipples on it.

If I'm thinking cash grab, like in the same way big ones is, the spaghetti incident. That is, I don't, I don't know if I will ever meet someone who has listened to that CD in its entirety. Once they realized, like, what they actually bought. I can't even remember what's on. I think it had like a Charles Manson cover on it or something like that. Well, yeah, and I, similar to your other suggestion, that was like on my long list.

I did consider that. And I just couldn't get it on the list. but it was definitely in the running. And just to call back to a recent conversation, you know who loves spaghetti incident is the AllMusic Guide. If I remember correctly, their review called it like the best G&R album since Appetite. So, again, AllMusic Guide, love AllMusic Guide. And we love it when they go rogue.

When they go rogue, AllMusic Guide is like the shit. and they definitely do it on spaghetti incident. That's awesome. Okay, I'm definitely checking that out. But a couple of things I'll put in there is that it's not as popular as a lot of the things on there, but sugar's file under easy listening feels it's a great album, but also something that exists almost entirely in new CD stores. I'm glad that you gave a shout to RICO disc that is definitely the most CD record label of all time. Yes. And like the teeth in the CD case would always fall out.

Terrible. They had the worst teeth. RICODisc, I don't know what the deal was with that. They just had the substandard teeth in the case. Yeah. So that's why you can get it for like a penny on Amazon. But the ones that I will stand the most on business for, if we're talking most CD tool albums, got to go with IMA.

It's got the lenticular cover that breaks like the moment you put it in your hand. And I got to go with that, even though I do think the hidden track is a most CD, almost like an automatic qualifier. I want to give a shout to a friend of the pod. I know he follows both of us on Twitter and vice versa. Seth Myers writer, comedian, fellow Plymouth White Marsh High School grad Matt Goldwich. He nominated DGC Rarities, Volume 1. Yeah, I remember counting Crohn's Einstein on the beach for an Eggman. that was getting some radio play on

what a... God, I can't remember the radio station that was playing in high school, but that one's gone there. On that, I'm going to also suggest the no alternative compilation. I'm sure you hone that, right? Oh, yeah, of course.

No doubt. Those feel like extremely... I bought it. I listened to maybe three songs. I actually want to revisit them now because a lot of interesting bands on there. But stuff that just didn't really connect with me as a 14-year-old. Blues Traveler 4 also feels very seedy.

Yeah. Maybe it's just like it was so, so many people owned it, and I saw it in so many used CD stores, and maybe it's like the color scheme. But, I mean. Well, that's a good example of a record that people bought because of one song, or maybe two songs. There were a couple hits, Hook, and then Runaround would be the other one.

And the rest of the record is more of a jam band record, but those are the hit singles. And if it were 20 years later, people just would have stream those songs and that record would have sold nothing. I mean, the album I used as the ultimate example that, to me, is Chumbo Wamba's Tub Thumper from 1997, which went triple platinum, sold 3.2 million copies just because of the song, tub thumping. I get knocked down, but I get up again. Nobody's going to get me down. That song. A song that people play in bars now when they want to annoy people.

Like, you play that song like 10 times in a row and then you leave the bar and make everyone listen to it. That was a song people wanted in the late 90s. So they bought that CD. But there's a lot of albums like that. I mean, this column is only 30 albums long. It could have been 100. Very easily. I could have come up with one with like 30 different, like completely different ones and you and you were like, yeah, that one hits.

Because I think that like one of the points of this piece is that, you know, we all had different CD collections if you were a CD buyer, but we all kind of had the same CD collection, you know. It's just different roles being filled. It's like the same role being filled by different albums. And by the way, I actually looked this up as we were talking. spaghetti incident two-star review on all-music guide oh was it yeah as punk albums go the spaghetti incident this is steve thomas earlewine

as punk albums go spaghetti incident lacks righteous anger and rage as guz and roses album go it's complete delight so it just mentions the charles manson song and that they're having fun but it's a two-star review oh man okay so they might have changed it like that that does happen sometimes because i feel like stephen thomas Thomas Erlewine, shout out to him, internet, music critic legend.

I feel like, I wonder if that got changed, because I feel like he likes that record a lot. Yeah. It doesn't match the score. Yeah, like, because you just said, it was like their most fun album since Appetite or whatever. That's what the review says, right? Yeah, it's complete delight returning to the ferocious, hard-rocking days of Appetite for Destruction. Okay, so. But it's also a coverdollown.

Yeah, I knew that there was some allusion to it being the most something since appetite. Robert Criscoe gave it an A-minus I think Classic I think yeah he gave Okay Chrisco gave Appetite a B-minus And he gave the spaghetti

Incident in A-minus You can't beat that guy You can't You can't beat him That's why he's the dean That's why he's the dean Of American rock critics Because he's just

He's just a lunatic man I love that guy Let's get to the Fantasy Albums draft here. I have two albums that are out today. One is by Jenny Ball. That record

is called Iris Silver Mist and there is not a metacritic score yet for that. So I guess we'll have to wait and see how that one does. And then model actress is the other album on my team. That album is called Pirouette.

And that also doesn't have a metacritic score. So I guess we had to revisit both next week. We'll see how we're doing. You did an update on William Tyler, his record time of definite. I saw a pitchfork review of that yesterday. I think they liked it.

Eight. They gave it an eight. So what you would expect, that album's still doing very well. I think it had a 90 last week. Is it down a little bit? I think it was it, it might have been like at 88 then. It's definitely 88 now after all music guide and pitchfork chimed it.

And so I can't imagine it's slipping more than a point. As a matter of fact, it might even go up. I'm starting to feel like this might be a bloodbath in your favor. I feel like the model actress album has some juice. Jenny Vaughal, like she's not going to let you down. I cannot imagine that being lower than an 85. And so, yeah, DJ Katsy, Boni Vair, just awful draft picks, man.

Like these are tanking it for me. So I need Lil Sims to, I really do need her to, or Billy was to drop. like to Pimp a Butterfly or Brat type albums. But, yeah, DJ Katsy is like the Shador Sanders of our draft this quarter because I thought that was money in the bank. I thought that was a really good pick. I guess DJ Katsy would be like Shador Sanders if someone picked him in the first round and then he didn't end up performing well.

Well, maybe it's like the fact that he was on that Rocheon Murphy album. That's like Shador Sanders's interviews. I'm trying to like strain for a metaphor here. but I think it's just like, yeah, I don't, like, I should have stuck with Barker. There were so many, like, kind of like weirdo, egghead electronic albums I could have gone with. But, man, I just picked the wrong one right there. So, hopefully things will turn around, but I am not being, I'm not very optimistic right now. Have you heard this model actress album?

I have. I've been listening to it. And, you know, we talked about their debut album. that came out a few years ago called Dog's Body. Is it Dog's Body or Dog Body? I think it's Dog Body. Dog Body. New album's called Pirouette.

And we both like Dog Body. I like this album. You know, I feel like it's not hooking me quite as much as the last album. I was reading in the promo materials about this record and it talks about how

they've embraced pop music on this record. and you do hear a sort of like club music pulse going through a lot of the songs. I don't think it's like a dramatic difference necessarily from the first record, because it wasn't like they were, you know, ACDC or something. It wasn't like they were just like a down-the-line rock band. But there's definitely maybe more of that maybe dance music flavor on this record. I know you were saying in the outline that you feel like this record's a little monoeuvre.

notness and I tend to agree. I feel like after maybe about 15, 20 minutes of listening to this record, I get a little tired of it and want to put it away, even though like in the moment I'm enjoying it, but over the course of a record, I don't know. It hasn't really bold me over yet. Yeah, I mean, it's this album, like you mentioned the press release and like, I cannot believe we have bands still doing that. Yeah, we decided to make this bold left turn and embrace.

praise pop music. It's like, what year is it? But I think it is kind of true. They're also, I didn't know they were on dirty hit at this point. Like, they're definitely opening for the 1975 when they come back, which makes sense. I mean, that would have made sense even if they weren't on the label. But I think that this album does everything that the previous one does, except for more people, which is exactly what they need. I think this is going to be really well received. But we kind of alluded to it. Like, I am, I think I'm going to just go out of a complete media blackout on this album.

Reading about it, like, the last album, like, that was more of like indie sleaze's back. And, you know, I interviewed that for spin. It could not appear. They could have not appeared more bored to be doing an interview with me. But, yeah, I think that this time around, there's like certain lines on this album and certain things in the press release where you just know it's like going to be just so aggravating to read about like not written in bad faith but just how a lot of album reviews just are like basically press releases just framed and framed a different way and it's like this is the album we need right now

and you know what maybe it is for certain people I mean I think it's good I think it's great to hear a band that sort of kind of sounds like the faint. But doing something is a little more, you know, a little more big tent with it. It was also produced by the same guy who produced the Hotel Year albums, which is cool. But yeah, this is like the more I read about this band and through no fault of their own, although I think there are some lyrics and some press quotes where they're like kind of playing into it. It's like the more I read about it, the less I want to like this, you know. Are you saying that there's like examples of radical kindness on this album?

Not radical kindness. I'd say unapologetic queerness is the one here. There you go. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think this record, and this is true in general, like if you can turn off like the music critic brain and just listen to it as a record and not think about it as a potential catalyst for think pieces, then I think it's a lot more enjoyable. And I'm probably just talking to you and I here.

You know, I don't think this probably applies to normal people, but that is always a danger when you can anticipate, like what the review is going to read like as you're listening to it. And with this band, I think it's best not to think about that. Because I do think, again, like a band that is, you know, sort of decadent and grimy and has some of the dance music influence, like I like that kind of stuff. and I think that's a good aesthetic for a rock band.

So I appreciate that they are pursuing that. I'll just say that I don't think. This record hasn't hooked me yet, but I'm saying yet because I feel like there's potential down the road because I do like what they're doing. I do appreciate the aesthetic going on here. All right, well, let's transition now to the main record we're going to talk about in this episode,

which is the latest album by. car seat headrest. It's called The Scholars. It's a rock opera. Please don't ask me to explain the story of this record. It's pretty impenetrable. But, you know, like a lot of rock operas, it doesn't really matter what the story is. It's all about the songs, and that's what we're going to be focusing on. I think in our conversation, unless you're going to break it down, Ian, are you going to break down the story behind the scholars? I mean, unless you want me to like read the press release, word for word, I am not going to do that. Well, there's pretty extensive liner notes, which are

formatted like a libretto, you know, where you go through and there's explanations for each song and where it fits into the story and the songs themselves are structured like dialogue between different characters, which I guess is fascinating if you're really into this band and you really want to dig deep into the lore. That's always a fun thing with a record like this. I would say that maybe for the average listener, it's going to be more about the music, and that's what we're going to focus on in this conversation.

I also want to talk a little bit about just car seat headrest in general, because this is a band that both of us have written about in the past, and I think we both consider ourselves fans. But this is something I touched down in my review of the record, which went up on Thursday. You can check it up on Uprox right now. I actually led my review with this quote from Kurt Cobain that he gave pretty soon before he died where he talked about how he regretted putting all these great songs on Nevermind

that if he were smart he would have spaced them out over 15 years because he realized that for an album to work you really just need like two or three good songs and then the rest can be bullshit and you can have a hit. And I think he was being Sardy. there, but I think about that quote a lot with songwriters, because I do think there is something to the idea that you can burn through a lot of your ideas, like, pretty quickly, and then later on, maybe you could have used some of those earlier ideas on your later records when you don't maybe have as many melodies in your mind. And that issue, to me, really pertains to Carcy

headrests in a pretty extreme way, because this was a band that, you know, put out 11 records in the early 2010s, like really before they got... signed to Matador. They had this whole kind of careers worth of music. And then they signed in 2015, they put out teens of style. And then the next year they put out teens of denial, which ends up being like their big

sort of mainstream breakthrough. And then ever since then, like the pace of music has really slowed from this band. They put out the re-recording of Twin Fantasy in 2018. Then there was making a door less open, which was the first

sort of original material. that the band had put out in four years. And then you have this record, the Scowers, which is the first Carcytide Reds album in five years. And, you know, there were some health issues that Will Toledo had in that time that affected that delay. And, of course, that's not his fault.

You know, he couldn't help that. I think he had long COVID. But there is a sense listening to their records for me that, you know, the ideas are not as plentiful anymore. That you would listen to old Carcy's Head Rest albums, and not only was he putting out lot of music, but like each song would feel like there were two or three songs inside of it. You know, killer whales, drunk drivers killer whales, I think is the best example of that.

Like there's kind of like a couple different songs in the space of that one song. And what's happened with Car Street Headrest albums is that as the songs to me have become less plentiful, the concepts have become bigger. And like making a door less open, you know, he had the alter ego. where he was wearing the mask and he was doing interviews and character. And there were like three different versions of the album on digital, CD and vinyl. This record, there's like this big sort of rock opera concept going on. And, you know, the last two records are very different,

but they sort of arrive at the same place. And that, like, making a door less open, I think, has some really good songs on it. But, like, the overall package feels muddled. And this album, the scholars, like, the first, like, five, songs I think are actually quite good. The first song I'm gonna stay with you. That sounds about eight minutes long, but it feels like a classic Carson Headrest song. It has all the elements, like there's sounds like the Who, like in the Beach Boys and the cars all put together. It's what you want from this band. The problem is that like there's three songs on the record in the

back half that are like 40 minutes long. It's like more than half the record. Is three, are these three songs that to me don't work. I like long songs, just. I like long songs. generally. But these songs, I feel like in the past, they would have been like sweets, like where he put a bunch of cool song ideas and made a song. These songs just seem like they came out of jams and they weren't honed as they should have been. Like there's cool parts to all of them, but like they go on way too long. And I just wonder, is this where we're at with Carcy Headrest? I mean, am I being overly negative here? My review is interesting because I think I came away with a negative feeling. Even though I, there are songs on this album I like quite a bit. I just feel like the overall package is muddled. And I kind of wish he just made a whole album, like the first half of the record. Like, why do we need this rock opera concept?

And I like rock operas generally. I just don't feel like they pulled it off. Well, I think that this album is being, you know, kind of subjected to, I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Because if you think of it as, if you think of like Car Seat Headrest as like an, a-tier indie rock act, then yeah, it's kind of a disappointment.

But I think that they've had a very interesting trajectory over the past five years. And when I've written about Car Seed Headdress, but it was like the live album and making a door less open. So it's like a weird band where like I didn't get to write about the album I like a lot. This is like sort of what happened with Titus and Adronicus as well, which is kind of a decent comparison. But, you know, I am not, oddly enough, a real head. of car seat headrests.

Like, even though this is the sort of band that appeals to me in so many obvious ways, I wasn't a young person who was following them throughout all the early albums. So I don't have that investment. And so when making a doorless open came out, and by the way, one of the hardest albums to write about because it had, like, different versions of it, such a pain in the ass. But, yeah, I think that what, like, I just don't feel the same investment to kind of, like, see this through as someone for whom, you know, twin fantasy or monomania were like super formative

records. And I just didn't come in this with very high hopes. So that's why I'm like actually leaving this with a fairly positive perspective. Like, I'm going to be completely honest. I only got this out of last week. So I've heard it twice. And I do plan to go back into it more because I just like the, I like the idea of car seat headrest as like this kind of cult band rather than like a kind of mile marker of where Indy Rock is. And I think that kind of happened to them after making a door less open. Like to me, that album was a flop. Like, I mean, it came out right before COVID, which swallowed a lot of albums and it wasn't really well received anyway. But what I've been hearing is that a lot of their old stuff got popular on TikTok again.

And so in the past few years, their fan base is kind of regenerated. And I like this idea of Carcy and Headrest is this band that people, like a new generation of 16-year-olds gets into like every 10 years. Yeah. But I think I think this gets into like what the issue is with, I guess the prolificity. I really need to know what the, like the quality of being prolific. I always need that word and I never know what it is. But I think what happens is, and I think about this. myself just as like a creative person that you know he was making 11 albums in like six years because

when you're 18 and 20 like so much stuff is happening to you you know you're graduating high school and like college and you're always like in these social situations that gives you this energy to find things to write about and you get to 20 or 30 and I guess just like less stuff happens to you but if you're like will Toledo it's just like the you know experience of being in a band So, like, I get that because I wonder, it's like, man, I used to write like 5,000 word blog posts about nothing. It's like, oh, right. Like, I was in college. Stuff was happening to me.

I was going out like five nights a week. So that makes sense. But I think that there's some really, like I like the fact that it like rocks harder and it's got some more melody than making a door less open. I do find the concept to be completely impenetrable. It's interesting to read about, but just the effort required to unpack it is, you know, maybe one for the real heads. I imagine 10 years from now there might be a 10-year anniversary piece that just really, really gets deep into the lore and explains it to me.

Yeah, it's sort of like a Chaucer's Canterbury's Tales vibe going on. I mean, like a lot of rock operas have the same plot where it's usually set in the future and some like dystopian totalitarian government is trying to outlaw rock music. Like that idea has been recycled so many times for rock operas and it works, you know,

because it's usually, you know, some sort of rebellion against an authority figure. Like that's all you really want from a rock opera. And like, I think there's some of that happening here, but it's such a Byzantine construction in the liner notes that's hard to follow. I mean, I do think, I think, like, one of the strengths of the record is that I think a lot of that is sort of knowingly silly.

Like, if you read the liner notes, I think that they're having a good time with this and not, you know, this isn't like Dennis D. Young doing Kilroy was here to make a rock opera deep cut reference there. You know, they're not like, you know, forwarding some sort of philosophy here in the lyrics. I think they're having a lot of fun with it. To go back to something you were saying about, like, them being a cult band. I think there's an interesting trajectory to Carseat Headrest in that they do have this entire career that predates them becoming like a known indie band in the mid-2010s. Like they had this whole other thing where they almost like were, they almost have like a complete discography upon like their arrival, you know? And it's a very interesting sort of set up in that way. it feels like looking over their entire career that the moment in the mid-2010s

where it looked like they were going to become like a big rock band, which would have been teens and denial era. It feels like that was the exception. And that they have always been like a cult band. You know, because like when they were putting out band camp records, there was an audience for those records at the time. It just wasn't very big. And then they got well known.

And then they kind of drifted again, I think back to, that more sort of very online cult type fandom, which is maybe where they're back to now. And so I do think maybe expecting them to, which is what I expected, when they came out with teens of denial, I thought this is going to be like the next generational indie band. And we're going to be talking about them for 10 years. And then it didn't really work out that way. But it feels like maybe they were never designed for that. that what they're doing now is similar maybe to what they were doing at the beginning of the career.

I would just argue that they're just not doing it as well. You know, like Twin Fantasy to me is a, if you want to compare it to that, it's another sort of very grandiose concept record with long songs, but it's just a better executed project than this record, which I feel like, again, I wish it was more the five, six minute punchy rock songs. I think that the really long songs just don't really work here. And they feel like jams that weren't refined. And like a big thing with this record is that it's not Will Toledo just writing the songs.

It's like more of a band effort. And that's happened on recent, you know, like that song, Hollywood, which was a single for making a doorless open. That was a collaboration with Andrew Katz. And with all due respect, that's like maybe the worst song that's ever been on a car seat headrest record. I mean, I do feel like Will Toledo is still like the most talented guy in the band. And when he is taking control of the music, it feels like that's when it's the best to me. I don't really know. I feel like maybe the band had more input on the long songs.

And those, to me, are also the weaker songs. But without knowing exactly where that breakdown is, I don't want to presume too much. But, like, that was my feeling listening to the record. yeah i think that um it'll be interested to see how frequently they make records going for because you know what what was going on like it's it's hard to remember or i mean it's probably easy to remember if you're like us but you know when teens and denial came out like that was seen as like a triumph not just for car seed headrest but for indie rock as a whole you know it's like in a world where like pop and rap dominate like this was a triumph of old school indie rock sound and like you know

old tool indie rock distribution and you know i think kind of knowingly he's shied away from that and you know if he's going to be making these kind of eccentric albums like i can at the very least like respect them like in a way that i couldn't with making a door less open like this you know if it ends up in the same place i come out of it feeling a bit more optimistic about where things are going from here for him sounds good let's get to our mailbag it's great to hear from our listeners please head us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. I should say it's great to hear from most of our listeners. Sometimes not so great, but you know, whatever.

It's good for people to email us. You know, we did get two emails last week that were sent between 6.30 and 7 p.m. on a Saturday night. Is that Saturday night, 6.30? It's like late afternoon. It's kind of like that space between the night and the afternoon. afternoon. Yeah, I guess it depends whether the sun is still out, you know, because like in the winter, yeah, that's Saturday night.

But it's in the space between. But anyway, two disgruntled emails sent at that time. And I just feel like, you know, if you're feeling angry at your podcast, you know, you're feeling angry at your podcast a choice, maybe wait till the next day. Maybe don't do it pre-Saturday night. It just feels like you might not be the... the right mind space. Maybe you were you were pre-gaming for going out and got a couple pops in you and you thought, I'm going to tell off that podcast, you know, or whatever.

Maybe you want to wait till the next day. That's all I'm saying, you know, I'm not trying to control anyone, you know, maybe you, but wait till Sunday morning, you know, go to your place of worship, ask for forgiveness for your sins, and then, you know, go after the sins of others after that, when you get back, then you can do all your emails to your podcast at that time. Unless, like, writing that email to us is, like, prevents you

from doing, like, worse things in public or to, like, your loved ones. Like, if that's the case, we can take it. But, I don't think there was any violence. I didn't get that sense. They weren't unhinged. They were just, they were critical. They were critical of us.

One was from a person who, thinks I'm too hard on jazz, which I don't think I talk about jazz music. I like jazz. I'm a fan of jazz. Yeah, it's weird to like that they're calling you out for that. I feel like that would be a thing. That'd be you. Yeah, you're more than... I feel like I've made jokes about jazz fans. Right. Because, like, the 47-year-old jazz fan, I've found lately is, like, the person most likely to dislike me, like, online. The 47-year-old jazz fan that, like, maybe used to like indie rock, but, like, now they're into jazz. hardcore, just looking at my mentions, like, that guy, because that guy is a type, does not like me.

It's so weird. I feel like I make fun of that guy way more often than you. Well, I think it's also like, you know, I heard from some of these people with the CD album column saying, why aren't you writing more about ECM albums on this? Like that kind of thing, which is a totally valid thing to say. My response would be, I understand what you're saying, but I'm also. trying to write a column that is entertaining to people. I want to be thoughtful and have the music criticism meat in there, but I also want to have some sugar in there. I guess it's like a

sugary meat. It doesn't sound very good. Some salt. I don't know. The cooking analogy is breaking down. My point is that I'm trying to write an entertaining column that has some laughs, some thoughts, you know, and it that's where I'm coming from. So writing about the obscure techno CD from 1989 might not totally translate.

It's totally my point. But anyway, that person, not a fan. And sometimes they email us and they let us know about that. So that's, anyway,

we're spending way too much time about that. We should get to the email that we're going to read today. This comes from a friend of the show, by the way. Joe in Chicago. Can you read this email?

Yeah. All right. So Joe and, Chicago, perfect. First of all, yay or nay, they might be giants. Second, I'm pro sports cast. Keep it up. Make it longer if you want. Third, the new Kyle Mooney album is outstanding. Shout to Inside SoCal, I love that shit. It's funny in both the subject matter and the way it was recorded. You can hear him exhaling into the microphone throughout the album and it makes me laugh every time. Plus, the songs are genuinely catchy. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on a comedian-made music albums that aren't necessarily intentionally funny. A few that come to mine are Tim Heidecker, Steve Martin and Reggie Watts.

I guess we can throw in Eddie Murphy too because, you know, not necessarily intentionally funny. Well, party all the time? Yeah, party all the time. That's a big hit. Lastly, I'd love to hear Steve's thoughts on New York City pizza. I personally think it's the best. But I'm curious where he stands. This is coming from a Chicago guy?

Wild. Well, okay, so I know Joe personally. He's making, that's an in-joke between me and Joe. So we'll leave it at that. we'll leave the pizza thing to the side Joe thank you for your question this is a very good question and I'm glad he brought up the Kyle Mooney

album because I've been enjoying that record I don't know if you've listened to that Ian are you familiar with this I know that he made an album but I'm mostly familiar with Kyle Mooney from his inside so Calbeth because it is like the it is still the definitive

San Diego piece of art Yeah, he's really funny. He was on SNL for a long time. He did this bit called Bruce Chanling, where he's a terrible stand-up comedian. And I feel like on the show, it always bombs because people don't understand the nuances of being a bad comedian on purpose. But it always makes me laugh. My son loves it. It's something we've bonded over.

But Kyle Mooney, this year he put out a record under the name Kyle M. It's called The Real Me. And it's a singer-songwriter record. And I would describe it as like, it's kind of like a beat happening type record where it's sort of like knowingly primitive and like knowingly childish. But like the songs are actually good and catchy and have clever lyrics. But it also skirts the irony line much closer than say Tim Hidecker who Joe mentioned. Who's another comedian that's put out several albums at this point. And I'll just say to the broader question, like, I've been a fan of comedians lately making music.

Because I feel like in the case of Tim Heidecker, he's emulating singer-songwriters of the 70s who often incorporate humor into their music. So thinking of people like Randy Newman, Warren Zvon, even like Paul Simon to a degree, who I think isn't doing comedy, but there's a lot of wit in his lyrics. And Heidecker is doing the same thing. He's ending up in a similar place as those guys, but he's just coming at it from a different angle. Like Randy Newman is a great musician who also has a good sense of humor, whereas Tim Heidecker is a comedian who also has a good musical sense.

So the ingredients are in a different order, but they kind of come out in a similar souffle at the end of the day. So I like that. Joe mentioned they might be giant. Yay or nay. I'm curious to hear your opinion on this. I'm going to say yay. It's not a strong yay because I don't go deep what they might be giants, but, you know, their early 90s albums, I listened to them when I was in junior high. So talking about Flood, 1991, and then, what is it, Apollo 18? Apollo 13. Yeah, I think it was Apollo 18, yeah.

Yeah, that record, which I think was 93, 94, those are really the two, only two albums I'm familiar with. but I remember I mean Flood in particular I feel like I could sing a lot of that album even though I never owned it I mean speaking of CD albums I could have put that on the list Yeah

I never owned but I knew it Because my friends had it Yeah the cover I can I really can like picture in my mind With the CD case To the point where I'm like Oh yeah Steve definitely put Flood in there But yeah

It was definitely a good candidate You know The fact that you have children impact your view of They Might Be Giants? Not really because it's not like we listen to They Might Be Giants. I've gotten really lucky with my kids. I never went through like a kid's music phase with them. I have always just played them music that I liked

or music that was on like the local Oldies radio station. So like my daughter, who's eight, loves tears for fears. And she loves Toto. and that like she loves like mid 80s pop so that's her children's music not like the wiggles or you know they might be giants or anything like that huh okay yeah because i mean for me like they might be giants um people i trust are into them you know and to some extent they'll tell me like similar to i know this this might offend uh you know my co-host here because they are uh they're uh wisconsinites uh similar to to violent femmes in the sense that like you just got to get rid of all the baggage that you

accumulated when you were 12 or 13 years old uh with this and kind of see them as part of the greater indie rock college rock canon you know what i'm saying because like yeah i think lincoln that was their i guess like big indie hit in the 80s like i think that made the o g pitfork 80s list and i think they did a sunday review on flood um but you know that being said kind of like with the car seat headrest album like i only have so much time in this mortal coil to you know dive into a 71 minute album that's nine songs long everything about they might be giants just kind of makes me recoil like their whole thing is so antithetical to stuff i like and at this point it's just not worth it for me to challenge my content prior to investigation

stereotypes can really save a lot of time they're always going to be the tiny tunes adventures band me. Are they that different, though, than, like, Black Country New Road? Absolutely. They're not that different. No, I think musically, they're not that different from a band like that to me. You know, I guess Black Country New Road isn't funny, but in terms of, like, quirky instrumentation, which to me is more of the cringe factor with a band like that, I think

there's more they might be giants in Black Country New Road than maybe you'd be willing to man. Maybe, but I mean, I think the big, like, you know, the band that gets compared to they might be giants most frequently in the current day is cheek face, so, you know, I, I mean, that's, that's the truth. I mean,

because, yeah, I think that, look, there's just some bands that you just get, I, I think that this is something I've, you know, kind of eased into in my old age where it's like, you're just not going to like be one for one, like a one-to-one relationship with the canon. There are just some,

bands that you're just not going to get into. And if I was like 22 or whatever, like when I had like more brain plasticity, I could have gone through my day might be. Oh, it's like those aren't the band. That's not the band I thought they were phase. Now, I'm just, I'm tempted. But also, man, I'm just going to listen to stuff I like, you know. So they're there to me the Constantinople band.

They're the Particle Man band. They are the you're not the boss of me band. and they are the kind of children's music band. And so that might not be true. Like they might have a great back catalog. I might listen to Lincoln and have my mind changed, but I'm just not willing to engage at this point. So I'm going to go with Ney.

All right, we've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so they might be giants or a band where every single bit of them is not my thing. I want to bring up a band that is very much my thing.

Club Night's new album, Joy, coming down. They're recommended if you like from the promo email is, and I quote, at the drive-in, cap and jazz, Me Without You, Pretty Girls Make Graves, Los Campesinos. Also, it's on tiny engines. It's pretty much the epitome of Covecourt. They've been kicking around for a while. Their last album came out in 2019.

That was also a really, really good album. And every now and again, you'd see people on emo Twitter thinking like, hey, that club night was really good. What are they up to? You know, it's kind of like a lot of bands that were on Tiny Engines in 2019. Like some of them went forward. Others kind of went dark for a bit. But now they're back and it's a great record. The sound of it is great.

It really does have this just an energy to it. Like maybe there's melody for sure and interesting melodic things going on. But when they talk about like Cabin Jazz and Pretty Girls make graves, like two very different bands, it's all just every single second have it has motion. It's got energy. It's a good album for the car, gym. And, you know, it's just something that gets better every time I hear it. So good to have them back.

Good to find a reason to bring up our brother the native, which is the band that used to be in like the end of the 2000s. Very much a, they'll admit, a panda bear ripoff. And so good chance to remember some guys from 2019 and 2009. So Club Night, Joy coming down. So on the show, we sometimes talk about having a bias against records that maybe feel like they're pitched a little too directly to our interest. I guess you don't have that with the Club Night record. But we've talked about that in the past being like, okay, do I actually like this or is this just playing blatantly to my own sort of predilections in music? And I think I had that with the record I'm going to talk about in Recommendation Corner.

It's called Like Cartoon Vampires by a band from New Orleans called The Convenience. This band is getting some buzz and I know Stereo Gum, I think, had it as their album of the week last month. So there's been some heat on it. And I remember listening to it at first and thinking, like, wow, they sound a lot like spoon. And when they don't sound like Spoon, they kind of sound like Parquet Courts. And like, wow, I like both of those bands. am I just liking this music because it reminds me of these other bands? And after listening to this record for a few weeks, I have to say that, yes, they do remind me of some of the sort of the most straight down the line, dude rock, guitar bands of the last 10 years.

But I also feel like this is incredibly well executed. And at the end of the day, you just have to tip your cap to a band that can deliver just well-reaching. songs that deliver the guitar rock red meat that I am looking for sometimes that I know many of you out in the audience are looking for. So if a band that evokes the best moments of Spoon and Parquet Courts appeals to you, I think you will get into this record. The band is called The Convenience. The record is called Like Cartoon Vampires.

And yeah, it's my recommendation corner pick this week. Yeah, I'm just thinking of the car seat headrest lyric. I know I'm being catered to. So, yeah, that always comes up with an album like this. I'm doing a spoon list for Uprox, which should publish next week. So I want more stuff that sounds like Spoon. I'm going to check this out, too. That about does it for this episode of Indycast.

We'll be back with more news, reviews, and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your music. your email box.