Indiecast - A New Waxahatchee/MJ Lenderman Supergroup + The Return Of The 1975 Discourse

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

Steven and Ian open with a review of Ian's recent run of concerts, including Geese's Halloween show in San Diego (0:45). They also do a Sportscast on the upcoming Packers vs. Eagles game, aka The Indeicast Bowl (6:56), and a Newscast on the recent Zohran Mamdani victory in New York City and the surprising reaction from (of all people) Ryan Adams (11:57). Then they check in on the Fantasy Album Draft, which is stacked this week with albums from Rosalía, Armand Hammer, Brandi Carlile, Florence + The Machine, and Mavis Staples (21:23).From there, they discuss the new supergroup Snocaps composed of Katie and Allison Crutchfield, MJ Lenderman, and Brad Cook (25:29), as well as The 1975 removing a song from one of their albums (34:17) and a new music project from punk icons Ian MacKaye and Henry Rollins (44:56). In the weekly "yay or nay" segment, they discuss The Mountain Goats (50:48).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about scrappy rock band Tape Trash and Steven talks about British soft-rock singer-songwriter Westerman (54:37).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 264 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the new Waxahatchy M.J. Lenderman Supergroup Snowcaps, the old outcast Ryan Adams, he's back, and an evergreen topic on this show, the 1975. Welcome back. I'm sure our listeners are thrilled. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host.

He saw three shows last week. I hope he's still alive. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? Well, I'll tell you, the first of those shows that I saw, I had 530 doors, 6.30 start time, and it closed out at 9 o'clock sharp. Best concert of my life for that reason alone. That was very life-giving. And the last one I saw, which was Sigur Ross with an orchestra, that was fully seated.

Plus, I was very energized by seeing some of the most unique 50-something post-rock t-shirt guys. Yeah. I love, I, the sit down show is always a blessing. That, that feels like you have a vacation. If you've got a lot of shows in a week, if you can have a sit down show, like when I saw, I saw Geese and Elvis Costello, not back to back, but within a few days of each other, Elvis was, was seated

and everyone in that audience was like, you know, 70 years old. So no one was standing for any song. It was pretty nice. So the geese was the early show, right? Yeah. That was on Halloween. by the way i don't i i want to get a sense of like where this stands in your life because obviously the most uh common costume at that at that show was bob ferguson one battle after another and

yeah what i found out in recapping my Halloween weekend to people at work is that not only have no one seen one battle after another they haven't heard of it right yeah i'm trying to get a sense of Like, how many, like, how present in the culture is this movie, you know? Well, again, it just speaks to the fragmentation of the culture, which is something everyone always talks about. But I think it's true that there are very few things that are universal. Like, what was the last TV show that felt at all relevant as a conversation topic? I mean, there's, there's a segment of people that will talk about, like, I love L.A., that show with,

on HBO with what's her name Rachel Senate or Senat or whatever however you pronounce her name but most people ever heard of that show I mean

so I think that's true with one battle after another where on one hand it does feel like one of the most culturally relevant movies of the year and then on the other hand you know

I've heard people on podcast say that they not only haven't heard of that movie but they really don't know who like Paul Thomas Anderson is so you know what are you going to do

Did you like geese? Oh, I mean, they were awesome. They were great. And there's one reason I wanted to make sure that we got to discuss because almost more than in 1975 we talk about geese. But people went nuts in the pit even when they were wearing costumes. But the thing that really, really stood out to me is that obviously people were stoked to hear the getting killed songs.

You know, they finished with taxes and Long Island City, here I come. They went apeshit for the 3D country. songs. And so this leads me to wonder once the 2020's decade lists drop, you know, however, five years from now, let's call it. Do you think 3D country might be the one for Geese? I don't think so. I think the thing with the songs they're playing live from that record is that they're the ragers, you know, like getting killed has some ragers on it, but it also has a fair number of mellow songs on it. Yeah. But like the really kind of hard-charged. tunes that they play live come from 3D country.

I don't think that's necessarily a reflection of people loving that record more, though. I do think getting killed is the one. But again, I would go back. I always make the radiohead analogy with this band in terms of their arc, where 3D country is the Ben's and getting killed is OK computer. So you've got some Ben's partisans out there who that's always going to be the record for them. So you're going to have the 3D country loyalists, I think, in the geese world. I do think overall getting killed will be the one.

By the way, Radiohead back on tour this week. And I think I might want to talk more about that next week because I think I'm going to write about following this tour via the bootlegs. But I don't know if you've been paying attention to that. The setless have been insane. The tour started in Madrid on Tuesday. They played two shows in Madrid. And then I think there's maybe still in Madrid.

they're going to play there Friday and Saturday. But they're playing like different set lists every night, and they're going all over the catalog. So they're playing like subterranean homesick alien, and they're playing planetallics, and they're pulling from every record. It's funny, I saw someone write a headline saying, oh, is this like Radiohead's Ares Tours?

You know, like Taylor Swift invented playing songs from throughout your catalog. I love that. I prefer to think of it as Radiohead's, Baker's dozen to her, you know, that they're tipping a cap to fish here because they did that whole thing first. But yeah, I don't know. It was kind of like with Deftones.

Like I didn't see anyone saying Deftones is doing their eras thing because they, that was one of the other shows I had seen. And they pulled from like their entire career, mostly focusing on the new stuff. But it's like, wow, they don't, they play for like two hours and only played two white pony songs. It's like they're a band that can do that sort of radio head style, all pick and choose, like maybe do the deep cuts or maybe do the hits type thing.

It was very, very strange to encounter. I mean, that's the way to do it if you are not touring behind an album, which Radiohead is doing. It's the first tour in seven years. They haven't had an album in nine years. So if you're not promoting a record, yeah, why not just play songs from throughout your whole catalog? Really hope this tour comes to America.

I don't know if that's going to happen or not. But I'd like to talk more about that next week because I, I, I, I, I, you know, I am going to do a deep dive, I think. It's not like, you know, in the jam world, they call it, they call this a couch tour where you watch the live streams of the show from home like every night. This isn't exactly like a couch tour because I'm watching these videos the next morning because these shows, you know, are getting done in U.S. time like at two in the morning. But I am following it and having a lot of fun with that.

Let's do a quick sports cast here because we have a big matchup, Monday night football. my team the Packers versus your team the Eagles could be a preview of the NFC championship game or it could be a preview of like a first round where we somehow both get eliminated. Your team seems like in better shape than mine. Like the Packers are the weirdest team in the NFL. You know, like we beat the Lions,

we beat the Steelers, and then we lose to the Browns and Carolina Panthers. There's no rhyme or reason. Matt LaFleur, Packers coach, on the hot seat, people calling for his head. I don't think he should be fired, but that's like a real thing. I kind of feel like the Packers are going to play well because the Eagles are a good team and it's national TV. And I feel like we play well against the good teams and then we suck against the bad teams.

So maybe that's what's going to happen. I could also see the Eagles beating us like 2717 or something. As far as this particular game, it might have had more juice week one, but I'm looking at the... Oh, it's got a lot of juice now. You don't think it has a lot of juice? This is like a big game. It's a big game, but it doesn't feel like a clash of the Titans because I don't know if any team in the NFL is actually like great right now. There's like this, this came to mind when the World Series ended in the Dodgers won and people wondered if baseball needed a salary cap because, oh, the Dodgers bought the best. players. Regardless of my politics elsewhere, I am a hardcore free market capitalist with sports because, you know, the World Series, that was awesome. College football, awesome. The NFL with

its salary cap is just kind of this like gray slush of teams. You say this every year about the NFL. And like college football, like, what are you talking about like with NIL? Like, what we got Ohio State? They're just going to be great every year. I don't, I don't think college football is necessarily this great product. I mean, I think in the NFL you have a lot of teams that are good. Yeah, there's not a dominant team, but I don't know. I guess I don't like the idea of the Dodgers just being so much better than everybody else or like Ohio State being just that much better than everyone's because they have the most money because that's what those other sports are. So I don't see that being a superior product. I think it's more about just enforcing like in the

NFL, like everyone's a billionaire. They can spend if they want to. And I want people to rise to that occasion. But yeah, I found out today the Panthers and the Chiefs have the same record. So don't be so hard on the Packers for losing to that team. Yeah, but the Chiefs are playing way better teams, though. I mean, their schedule is pretty rough. I mean, but yeah, I mean, I think the Panthers are better than they seem, but still the Packers not beating them at home is a pretty terrible loss. I don't think there's any question about that. I don't know, man. Like, you're not as, like, you're pretty down on the NFL, I think.

Because to me, this is, like, a huge game. I think this is, like, yeah, they're not, like, both 8 and O or whatever, but they're both, like, going to be in the mix. So I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be good to watch. Yeah, it's a meaningful game. I mean, the Eagles are going to go to the playoffs because they are in, and this is a real, this is a real compliment, that they are in the least. serious division in football, which is, you know, but whereas the Packers might not even make the

playoffs. I think we'll make the playoffs. Like, it's a possibility that they don't, but I doubt it'll happen. I mean, we'd have to fall off pretty hard. I mean, I think it's more a matter of, are we just going to get bounced in the first round again? Like, to me, no one's saying, oh, we're not going to make the playoffs. It's just people, at one point, we're saying we could be a Super Bowl team, and now it feels

like we're maybe going to be 11 and 6, but we have a tie. So it'd be like 11, 5, and 1, or like 10, 6 and 1, rather than like a 13 or 14 win team. I think that is the distinction there. But, I mean, if we don't make the playoffs, Matt LaFleur will for sure be fired. But I think we'll do that. It's just they're a weird team because they can't just be good all the time. It's like we're good one week and then the next week. you know, we can't score more than 13 points.

And then our kicker is missing kicks. And I don't know. It's a frustrating team, but I don't know. This will be a fun game. And I guess we'll see, you know, this is like the Indycast Bowl. Yeah. You know, Packers versus Eagles. I mean, you've got to be up for this game.

I know you're a college football guy, but this is the Indycast Bowl. You know, let's get serious. This is a big deal. Yeah, I'm downplaying it, but I guarantee you if the Eagles win and if they win impressively. We're going to earmark 30 minutes of next week's episode to talk about that. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens.

We'll see what happens. Let's do a quick newscast here. Let's segue to looking at the world because Zoran, Zoran, Zoran, Mom Dani, there you go. He was elected mayor of New York City. People are very excited about that. Which, you know, we won't delve into the politics of that here. The reason I'm bringing this up is because our old friend Ryan Adams, who we haven't talked about in a while, he's been in the wilderness the last six or so years. He posts on Instagram.

He did a couple posts, which I think he subsequently deleted. But the posts that I saw was basically expressing disappointment in the voters of New York for electing Zoran. and I believe it was like hashtag socialism, hashtag scumbag. From Ryan Adams about Zoram Mondani. And by the way, do you have any thoughts on Zoran? I mean, I know that you may feel some ownership of this because of Zoron's tangential relationship to the SoundCloud rap scene of the 2010s, something that you wrote about back in the day.

I mean, do you feel any sort of, you know, adjacent credit should be paid your way for all the Das Racist coverage you did 15 years ago or so? Well, I mean, it's pretty funny to think that the mayor, the future mayor of New York City read my review of Sit Down Man, but I also gave some not-so-great reviews to the next Das Racist album, even though Michael Jackson is a jam, and the Big Baby Gandhi album. So I don't know, maybe Zoran's got beef with me. By the way, congratulate you for correctly pronouncing his name. Andrew Cuomo couldn't do that. Right.

But yeah, I think also... Might have been on purpose. Might have been on purpose from Cuomo. It's funny because yesterday our pal Jeff Weiss, the guy who runs Passion of the Weiss blog, he posted an email from 2017. So this is like seven years after Das Rates, six or seven years after Das Races closed up shop

where Zora Mondani tried to send him a sound cloud of his rap song. And I think Stereogam just posted one as well. I really needed to see that because someone, one of the patients at work dressed up as me for Halloween, and they said, yeah, I googled you because I wanted to make sure I got the tattoos, right? And, you know, that opened up a whole lot of things. But, you know, if Zoran can overcome a SoundCloud rap pass, I think I can't take myself so seriously about things about me on the internet. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a post-Trump, you know, moment here with Zoran because, you know, Trump proved that it doesn't really matter

what you've done in your past. You could be corrupt. You could be accused of assault, you know, have various allegations against you. People are willing to put all that aside if they like you. So Zoron comes along and yeah, he has the SoundCloud rap background. People are willing to put that aside because they feel that he could do something for the city. Ryan Adams, though, someone to circle back to him, someone who is still haunted by his past, of course, you may remember back in 2019, the New York Times did this big story about him, multiple women accusing him of sexual harassment and a general, just, you know, not very nice guy. Yeah, creep behavior.

Thank you. Being a creep. And he was sent off into the wilderness after that. And it's been interesting following his career since then. And I will admit that I have haunted the Ryan Adams' Reddit page over the years. just because I am fascinated by his trajectory. And, you know, he's had this extended moment where he actually has been able to carry on his career. He's toured a lot.

He's put out a lot of records. His records are readily available. You can go on any streaming platform and find them. And he definitely has an audience. But he's really become his own worst enemy. And I don't know if you've been paying attention to this at all. I mean, there was this recent story where he was in Australia on tour, and there were multiple incidents where he was just sort of being a jerk really on stage.

I guess someone took a flash photo of him, and that triggers. He has a condition where he gets disoriented if there's like flash photography. And he's going on Instagram, and he's posting all this like anti-Australia stuff. he's insulting the country. He eventually apologized to the entire nation for his behavior during this tour. But you know, you go on his Reddit page and it's just post after post

from fans of his who have paid to see him live. And they're not even talking about the allegations against him. As far as his audience is concerned, they don't really care about any of that stuff. But to a man or to a woman, or to a woman. It seems like every person talks about how, when they go see Ryan Adams play live,

that he's acting erratically, that he's ranting between songs about getting canceled, that he is basically sabotaging himself. And we've talked about this on the show. There is a blueprint, I think, that is pretty well established at this point where if you were canceled in the late 2010s, that there is a way back and the way you go, the way you get back,

And I'm saying this without judgment. I'm not saying, I'm not justifying this. I'm not defending it. I'm just saying this is how it is that the people who have come back, the way you do it is you just basically pretend like nothing happened. And you just put your head down and you play a good show. And you please the people who have come and paid to see you play live. Because those people clearly don't care about anything that was written about you or what people are saying about you.

And it just feels like with Ryan Adams, Because I've actually like listened to some of these bootlegs too. I guess I'm just like a rubbernecking, uh, train wreck enthusiast. But you listen to these bootlegs and it's like you're punishing the people that have set all of your baggage aside and paid to see you play. Like you're punishing them with your behavior in these shows. Um, and now he's railing against Zoron, Mom Dani, which my assumption is that he looks at Zorn. Ron is being downstream from Me Too. This is like the woke people.

Like he's, he sees it as an extension of like woke people that derailed his career. So Mom Donny is the latest symbol of that. I mean, that's my assumption. Because he's not really a political, I mean, maybe he was always conservative. I don't know. But that's my assumption, like seeing those posts.

And it's like, dude, you got to, I'm sure people in his life are telling him this. And he's just incapable of not sabotaging himself. Yeah, I mean, we're increasingly having to consider whether, you know, does this person's very public crash out or, you know, more likely mental health episode qualify as something we can talk about. I mean, we have not talked about say anything's covers EP. We not talk about grinds as AI video.

We've seen them. We've heard them. But with this one, I mean, like, you would figure he'd stick the landing and endorse Andrew Cuomo, which is, I think a lot of people in the political sphere have, like, tried to put their weight behind him as, like, uh, you know, kind of this Trojan horse for their own uncancelling. But you're correct in that. Um, I mean, you look at artists who have been accused and, uh, convicted in the public court of public opinion of far worse.

Like when I saw Riloh Kiley a few weeks ago, I was thinking of myself, you know what? Brand new played at this exact same venue, uh, a couple weeks, a couple months ago and filled it, you know? It's like, eat shit. keep your head down and try not to draw too much attention to yourself and you're not going to be you know where you were before but you can make a path for this you know especially given that alt country is in a boom phase right now like there is a path if not like for him to be back but to be like I don't know well remembered I did listen to gold a few weeks ago every time of year

this time of year I try to give it a spin again and it falls off around like whatever it is teal tequila, streetwalk and blues or whatever it's called. But yeah, this is really just kind of disturbing. Yeah,

the last I had heard of him, he was complaining on Instagram about his ex-manager sending him nudes and that Phoebe Bridgers framed them. I did not hear

about the Australian thing, although I think it's funny because that's also kind of a Simpsons plot line. I'm imagining Ryan Adams being subject to a public booting. But I mean,

who hasn't made fun of the entire country? of Australia. That's one of his lesser crimes, I suppose. Yeah, I don't know. By the way, I wanted to talk about saying anything. I'm not the one who vetoed that topic. Ian was protecting big emo. That's why we didn't talk about that, but that's for another day. Let's do a quick fantasy draft update here. This is a big day for the fantasy album draft. I have three albums that were out today. Brandy Carlisle returning to myself is out today, the Florence and Machine record.

Actually, that was last week that it came out, but there weren't any reviews yet. That record's called Everybody Scream. And then Mabas Staples, sad and beautiful world is out. And Mavis Staples, love Mavis Staples, love her music anyway. Staples singers, great band.

She's great in the last waltz, among other places. And she is coming through huge for me in the fantasy album draft, a 93. currently, which if that holds, that is the best ever turnout for me, I think, in the whole fantasy album draft. So really, my strategy of, because no one's going to want to write a bad review of Mavis Staples.

She's like in her 80s at this point. She's sweet woman, great singer. No one's going to want to write the, you know, C-plus album review. You know, so if this record's even good, people are going to call it great. And that's what looks like it's happening here. So that's fantastic. Forrest of the Machine is doing well for me too, 85 so far. Happy with that.

The British pubs in particular coming through Big for me, which I was banking on. So thank you to the Brits. And then Brandy Carlisle returning to myself. That album has an 82. She was on SNL last week. I didn't watch the episode, but I saw clips of it online. She's doing like a rock thing now, apparently. Like her song that she played kind of sounded like you two.

you know like all that you can't leave behind era you too she's doing like like a beautiful day elevation type knockoff it's kind of a weird pivot but uh i don't know she got in 82 so that's pretty good uh rosalia is out today for you uh am i reading this right she has a a score of 100 currently a 100 on four reviews uh you know five stars in rolling stone five stars in the guardian clash and exclaim are a little bit less enthusiastic, but, you know, it's, we don't know the secret sauce, but right now it is holding firm at 100. I don't know if it's going to stick, but I guess our fears of her being a dud were not well-founded. Yeah, I also got, but by the way, about like no one wants to be the person giving 80-year-old Mavis Staples a C-plus.

Robert Criscow could surprise you if he's still doing. doing his thing, I don't know. He's not on Metacritic though, so I don't have to worry about him. All right. Yeah, so, but yeah, I also got Arm and Hammer coming out today. I don't think that's not on Metacritic, but Pitchfork did publish a review on the day of recording. It's an 8.0.

It's about what I expect. Kia also has an 86. We'd not mention that one. I think that could go either way. I feel pretty confident it's going to hold steady. What was that album called? That one, that album is called. Hook's Law. It came out last week. And yeah, it's a really interesting record. But yeah,

who would have thought, who would have thought that, you know, Sudan Archives would have been bringing up the rear for me? We got some real heavy hitters going on this week, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think you're going to win going away. I'd be shocked if Rosalia is below a 90. I mean, and she may be in the mid-90s. I saw Rolling Stone gave her album five. stars. They're handing off some real choice language in that particular review as well. They're handing off five star reviews now like candy. I don't know. I feel like you've got to go with the five star review maybe once a year. But I guess the Taylor Swift review, you're going to get that five. Maybe this doesn't even count. Like if Taylor Swift gets the five stars, that's just the given.

And then if someone else gets five stars, that's maybe in the quota for five star reviews. Let's talk about snow caps here. Reference this at the top of the episode. This is a new supergroup featuring Katie and Allison Crutchfield, twin sisters, Katie from Waxahatchie, Allison from Swerin, and also she's recently worked as an A&R executive. I feel like she may still have that job. And then you also have M.J. Lenderman, and you have Brad Cook.

Brad Cook, of course. He was in DeArmond Edison. years ago with Justin Vernon in a great band called Megafon that I'm a big fan of from the 2000s. Lately, he's just been the go-to producer for Americana-leaning indie rockers, including Waxahatchie. This record dropped suddenly on Halloween last week, and so we didn't talk about it on the show. It's funny because I got a press release about this last week. In the middle of the week, and I didn't see it. So I was as surprised as anyone when this album dropped on Friday.

I thought it was funny that I've never seen a surprise album get reviewed on the day it dropped more than this one. Oh, yeah. Well, they were sending it out. I mean, it was, I think my first email arrived on Wednesday and then another one on Thursday because I didn't respond to the first one. And I just missed it. I didn't see it. So I saw snow caps in the subject line maybe, and I was like, I, who's that band? Why do I have to care about that? But anyway, the album came out and I'm guessing a lot of our listeners have had a chance to check it out.

This is definitely a group in our wheelhouse. And you and I, of course, have listened to it. It's really interesting, you know, because this is, you know, the term supergroup is always a loaded term. it originates back in the 60s when you had like Crosby Stills and Nash and Blind Faith with Eric Clapton and Steve Winwood, you know, these big rock superstars. And now Supergroup gets applied sometimes to musicians who aren't actually that famous who get together. And if they don't really have like a superstar pedigree, but they get called the Supergroup. I will say like in the indie world, this does feel like a supergroup. Certainly Katie Crutchfield is a big deal. And then you've got MJ Lenderman, one of the big emerging indie stars of recent years.

And they've collaborated already together on the last Waxahatchie record. Lenderman was on that. This is a much different record than what Waxahatchie has been doing lately. This is much more in line with the earlier Waxahatchie records. You know, records like Surly and Salt in American Weekend and even Ivy Trip, these more indie rock sounding albums, you know, where she was really influenced by like guided by voices. and pavement and stuff like that. And it's actually a change that I welcome

because I've gone back to those records fairly recently and I kind of miss that scrappy rock sound that Waxiachi used to have. Even though I liked the more Americana-sounding records that she's made in the 2020s, the idea of her going back to that style with her sister is really appealing. And I think that there's a nice

aspect of this record that's like pretty unassuming, you know, it's not really leaning into the all-star lineup aspect of the album. They're really just making a record. It sounds like a record that was probably made fairly quickly. It just seems sort of unassuming in that way. I will say that while I like that aspect of it, there is a part of me that wonders if this record's a little too unassuming. Like I'd like the record, but I don't, really love the record. I'm not really knocked out by any of the songs. I also think it's a curious thing that you have this lineup and it really doesn't sound like anyone else is on the album other than Katie and Allison Crutchfield. Like MJ Lenderman, if I didn't know he was on

here, like I would never would have guessed. You know, you don't really detect. As far as I can remember, I don't think he sings, like, any backing vocals or anything. And there's certainly none of the twangy guitar that you hear on M.J. Lenderman records. I know he, like, actually did play on the album. But I don't know. If this, this could have just been like a Katie and Alice in Crutchfield record, which is fine, you know, because they make good music together. But I don't know.

the M.J. Lenderman of it all. He kind of seems wasted on this album. I don't really understand why he had to be on the record. You almost could have just had him be like a secret guest star and just promote it as a duo record. Because that's what it feels like to me. I don't know if you had that same feeling listening to it. Yeah, it's interesting because when you go to,

I listen to myself on Apple Music and the blurb basically sets out expectations. Like, look, I know the, of the people on it, but temper your expectations, which, you know what, that's, that's fine by me. I was actually, when I was at, um, uh, best friends forever a few weeks ago during a break between sets, I heard Dustin the Gold Sack, which, um, uh, you know, that's like, I think from the last swearing album. And I thought to myself, yeah, like, whatever happened to these guys. Um, and I guess this is as close as we'll get to it. I do wonder how, uh, Katie Crutchfield feels about her older

work, you know, Surulian Salt, um, Ivy Tripp, things like that. Because, you know, when I saw, uh, them open for Riloh-Kiley, I don't think they touched anything from that era. I think they played a song from In the Storm, but I could be wrong about that. And yeah, I found a pleasant. I found it enjoyable. I'm also not like the biggest Crutchfield head. Like even the stuff that I prefer never really did it for me the way it did for many others. But that being said, I do think this is kind of a welcome change of pace from, you know, the last couple of albums, which have come laden with such this is the top five out of the year expectations that it kind of takes me out of it. And of course, like you, and I am no way shape or form of Brad Cook expert or an MJ expert.

I'm like, where are these guys even on here? Or is it like one of those straight to DVD movies where you can say like Denzel or Nick Cage is in it and put them on the cover even though they're in the first five minutes? You know, it's a fun time. It sounds like they had fun making it. More songs like stuck in my head immediately than the ones from. you know like tiger's blood or what have you and i do appreciate that this for katy crutchfield is a is a far different thing than waxahatchy than say fields was right which and i also don't think this album's going to result in a disc track against her collaborator which i'm told bored is so yeah

it's cool i think most people are like being pretty reasonable about it and um yeah i i do miss the earlier days. I do kind of wonder about, you know, the whole alt-country-ish pedal steel on stage thing and whether that's going to take a turn in the next few years. But for the time being, shout out to all the Indycast listeners, all the Waxahatchy fans for being super reasonable about an album. You don't get that much anymore. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a pallet cleanser. That's what it felt like to me. That, you know, it's clearly not a major statement. the way that the last couple Waxahatchie records are. I mean, it does feel like I'm doing this for fun.

And they're not touring a lot for this album. Right now they have six shows scheduled, two each in Chicago, L.A. and New York. And they're playing pretty small venues. I would bet that they would be a really fun live show. And I think in the live setting, you're going to get more sense of them as a band. That would be my suspicion. you can actually see them play, so you have that aspect of it. But I just think maybe in a live setting,

the personality of Brad Cook and Angie Linderman will be more evident than it is on this record because it really does sound a lot like early Waxahatchie and Swerin. You know, the Crutchfield's respective bands. And you don't really detect anything from the other two people, which is totally fine if you know that about the album and you can appreciate that. But if you're expecting something

that is going to feel like the sum of its parts, this record might be a bit of a letdown. So go into it, I guess, with the right frame of mind. All right, well, let's transition to our next topic, and this is an old favorite. We haven't talked about this band in a while. It felt like we were in a run

where we were talking about them every week. They were just generating so much commentary and so much content. But the 1975, they haven't put on a record, record in a while. I think it was 2022 when they last put out an album. So hasn't, there hasn't been, there hasn't been that much of an excuse to talk about them, but this week, they did provide us some more fodder when it was announced that Maddie Healy decided to remove a song from the last 1975 album being funny in a foreign language. The song, Human 2, has been removed from the record

because Maddie Healy says he doesn't like the song anymore. So he has done the George Lucas Star Wars thing and changed his work here to suit how he feels now. And, you know, people have been talking about this. There's sort of like the micro idea of the 1975, who, by the way, I feel like their whole brand is putting way too many songs on albums. So I could think of many other songs

that he could take off of albums if we want to get into that conversation. But the more macro conversation is just this idea of, you know, sort of like a work of art, an album, a film, whatever it is, being more of a fluid thing in the streaming era, that you can take an album that's already been out. People know this song. I read the pitchfork review of this album.

They called this song Stunning. I didn't write that one. They apparently disagree. with Maddie Healy about the quality of human too. But just this idea that you can decide, oh, I'm going to take this song off. And if you don't own the physical record, you have no real recourse. Like if you're going to stream it, that's the way the album is going to be. And it is interesting because it's interesting to be that we haven't seen more examples of this.

Because it is relatively easy to change an album after the fact. But I can't think of many examples. where someone decided to do that. I mean, it's really a matter of, like, usually, like, if a song is offensive, or if there's some sort of copyright claim on a song, like if you sample the song without permission. I remember Teens of Denial, the Cars Seat Head Rest album, had a song where he just lifted a verse from just what I needed by the cars.

And Rico Kasich didn't have a problem with it, but, like, his record company did, so, like, he had to take that song off the record. But yeah, this is not something we really see all that often. So I just wonder if in the future, as we have generations that maybe don't look at the album as this sanctified thing, if this will become more common. Yeah, I had somehow forgotten about the car seat headrest thing. And I think it's because it wasn't subject to copyright infringement because of the cars thing, but it was because they put in a pavement lyric and it changed things in a way. but the only other time was the cars thing too though yeah i think there was just some weird it's like if it was a straight up cover but you know we won't get into copyright law cast but i'm also thinking of

and i am more than happy to talk about uh stillmatic uh the not the the only other time i remember a song being taken off an album because uh they just thought it sucked too hard uh there was a song called braveheart party on naz's stillmatic which came out in 2001 uh have you heard that one it's the one ether on it. You know, I know that record, yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. And I remember hearing this, I'm like, this song is so bad. I cannot believe they put it on the record. And then Mary Jay Blige, who does the hook, asked it to be taken off the record for quote personal reasons. And they actually did it? And so that was just eerie, because I'm like, did I manifest this? The same way we oftentimes manifest things on Indycast and they show up in the real world.

I mean, I'm surprised that 10 years after Life of Pablo, which I listen to, to recently wild record. I really felt like that would have been a sea change to see more of this happening with bands just fixing songs or removing and taking it off. And yeah, so the fact that this is happening with like a fairly minor song, it makes it news. I mean, I'm thinking to myself, like, should bands be allowed to do this, you know? Are there albums where you would want the band to do it?

because yes, absolutely. With the 1975, particularly notes on a conditional form, I mean, I make the choices of what I fast forward through. Some people would fast forward through the instrumentals. I happen to think those are some of the best 1975 songs. You love the Greta Thunberg song at the top of the record, that spoken word track that goes on forever? Yeah.

Do you listen to that one? Yeah, all the way through. You know, to keep up the 1975-90s rap continuum, them. That's like the version of Wu Tang Clan doing a, you know, Wu Revolution, the six-minute Papa Wu song at the beginning of Wu-Tang forever. But, no, I don't listen to it. Sometimes I listen to it. Like, not just in the same way that. Why? Why? In the same way that I listen to the big picture off Bright Eyes Lifted, and I never skip the spoken word intro on the Hotel Year's goodness. Like, I am just such an album guy that I feel inclined to experience it as the

artist meant to. I don't do it all the time, but. So there's the Greta Thunberg track, then there's a song, and then isn't there like another spoken word track, like in the third slot of that album? I remember something like, I remember there's an instrumental, I think. Yeah, it's one of the weirdest, the albums of all time. I don't know. Weirdest, you mean worst, right? Like, one of the worst sequence. Most curious. You know, the 1975, I was thinking about that, about this this morning, because we haven't talked about them in a while.

And, you know, they have put out albums in the 2020s, but they seem like such a 2010-era act to me. And this has been a recurring conversation this year on the podcast talking about 2010s, indie stars, how it feels like, you know, a lot of them have come back in 2025 and they feel like they don't have a lot of juice. They feel a little like they're part of a different era and we're in a different decade now. I do wonder about the 1975

what their new music will sound like when they put out an album I just wonder like does Medi Healy listen to Geese and think like I'm so fucking old at this point? Because they seem to me like such a Trump 1.0 band

you know with a little bit of like Biden era stuff to them. I don't know. I'm not saying that they're washed but they seem very 2010s to me. I'm curious to see how, they translate to a new decade. That's interesting because I hear more as like an Obama Corps 2.0 band.

If we're thinking about the self-title than the, the, uh, the 2016 now with the long title. They've been around forever. It is real, like, it's really kind of jarring. But I don't know. If I know about you here, I feel like the resistance music is an extension of the Obama era. I guess that's what I was thinking of with the Trump. One-point-o. I love it like we made it is definitely resistance core, for sure.

And I don't know. They're such a 2010s band. They're such a millennial band. They're like one of the defining millennial bands. And I wonder if zoomers look at them and cringe. You know, because I feel like there's a lot of cringy aspects potentially of that band. And not saying they can't do it. But I feel like Maddie Healy's whole thing was I'm kind of like the bad boy of like the woke era.

and now that era is done and then what are you now? I feel like him being taken out of that context it changes what they are and it makes them maybe less compelling but I don't know I'm not that big of a fan so maybe I'm misreading that

but I'd be very curious to see what their new album is like whenever they put one out. Yeah and maybe Maddie Healy will like continue to say hey we're going to make a Midwest emo album this time around like they say that every album that's just to keep

you on the hook. I know, especially after they make a jack. I did not like that last album, I know it was well received. Um, and that human two is a stunning song. But man, that really took the wind out of my sales, man. That was, that's like a, yeah, the Jack Antonoff of it all. Like, I want them to be messy. I want them to make, I don't, I do not want them to make a tight album. I want the, uh, 2016. Let's put the five minute lap pop instrumental on there. Let it all hang out, boys. Yeah, I don't know. I just feel like they make a lot of kind of mid-sounding pop music at this point. And I always wanted them to be like in excess, like a trashy rock band that could get a little dance oriented or funky or something. And it kind of became this like, I don't know,

like that song, Human too. It's like a Bonnie Vair homage. You know, they're doing a lot of stuff like that. And I don't know. I just, I feel like the way they're talked about and the way they actually sound has always been a huge gap. And like for you, for instance, I feel like you ascribe all these emo qualities to them that I don't hear on the records, you know, and it's only because of Madi Healy talking about it, that it has that kind of, you know, maybe, that it has that quality to it. It gets projected onto them, I think. I think it's there.

I think that there's, I think it's maybe not so much emo, but like, you know, my preferred nomenclature of just like shittiness where it's like they're trying to like do something and they can't do it. It's like they lack a certain mastery and I find that to be pretty compelling and because I think that's true of even like the best

emo bands where it's like you don't hear mastery you hear them just barely hanging on by their fingernails to this great thing that they're doing and it could go wrong so easily and that's the thing I like about them. I know it's not a very compelling pitch

for people who are skeptics because like when you're doing the Jack Antinoff record though you lose that like you're not oh absolutely yeah yeah absolutely the Jack Antonoff thing killed it for me yeah well I wasn't sure if we'd have time for this but it looks like we do and uh because there's another story this is like for the old people out there

for the old punks the people who are listened to the 1975 who are listening to geese and they're like hey man this isn't punk this isn't hardcore whatever happened to Henry Rollins and Ian Mackay. Why are we making music like that in the indie world anymore? Well, my friend, if that is you, if you are that person, I know there's at least one person out there listening to this podcast who was like this.

I have good news for you because it was reported this week that Henry Rollins and Ian Mackay are working on new music together. And apparently we may be soon on the verge of hearing something. I'm looking at the stereo gum story on that. this. I'll just read from it. This is from a post that Henry Rawlins posted online. Weeks ago, I journey to DC to work on a great project. Ian Mackay and I went to Inner Ear Studios where we made our first records decades ago and mixed a four-song session. This is the same studio where the teen idols, minor threat, bad brains, and many of others recorded. It was amazing to

be back there. So yeah, he worked on a four-song, I guess, EP or 7-inch. with Ian Mackay, and we're going to bring back some real punk music, Ian. Yeah. To the indie world. How do you feel about this? Are you in Henry Rollins guy or an Ian Mackay guy? What are your feelings about these guys? Yeah, enter your studio.

Shout to, you know, Braid for recording frame and canvas there as well. But so this is a situation where if we're comparing like Henry Rollins and Ian Mackay, like Fugazi is a band that I know. know is great. They're legendary as I'm writing this book. Every single person that I've talked to you talked about like how Fugazi changed their lives. But I often have to remind myself to listen to Fugazi. And when I do it, it's like, oh yeah, the argument. Incredible record. But it's not something that like I'll throw on just because I want to. Whereas Henry Rollins, I'll listen to his cover of Suicides Ghost Rider from the Crow soundtrack probably every other week because it is the funniest

a song I've ever heard in my life. Same with Liar. Henry Rollins is just such a, he's not a better artist. He's not a, you know, more compelling pop culture figure, but there's just something so funny about him. And also he,

the role he plays in the pavement story where I think, isn't like Steve Malchman's like, yeah, I saw Henry Rollins like squeezing an eight ball, like a pool ball, backstage to like get pumped up for the show. And I realize, yeah, punk rock's not really for me. I also don't believe for a second this music was being made or will ever see the lighted

day. This is definitely something I think Henry Rollins will leak and maybe Ian Mackay is feeling like vaguely embarrassed by. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic just thinking of those two guys together because, I mean, I'maqa I think is, he's a pretty cool guy. He's pretty unimpeachable as just not as a music, not only as a musician, but just as, you know, running Discord records and the way he's carried himself and the music business. And then Henry Rollins, who, you know, he's been on great records as well. But as you said,

definitely more of a mixed bag in terms of his overall career. And then he got like the spoken word thing. And then he got like, he's kind of like a quasi stand-up comedian at times. He's making movies. So I don't know. I, them together, I just feel like Ian McKay would be so annoyed by Henry Rollins. You know, like, is he like irritated by him or is he just like, well, we've known each other forever. So it's like we all have friends like that that you grew up with and yeah, they're kind of annoying but they're like a brother to you so you put up with it. Maybe it's that kind of dynamic. I just feel like if this record does come out, this would definitely be a good fantasy album draft selection because you're definitely going to get the 48 year old music writer writing about

this. And this is sort of like the male like wild flag. Remember that band? Oh, yeah, yeah, totally. Which was sort of like Slater Kinney, but it was like members of Slater Kinney with like other punk rock luminaries. Like the punk rock supergroup for a certain kind of person

is just money in the bank. So like Mojo, maybe they're going to get on board, although they're not really into the punk stuff as much, I guess. But yeah, the gray-bearded, 48-year-old music writer, very excited about Ian McKay and Henry. Henry Rollins making a record together. So hopefully it does happen.

I think it's going to come out. You know, why not? Why shouldn't this exist? Give these people something to live for. They're upset about geese. They're upset about MJ Lenderman. They're sick of reading about these people. They want real punk rock to come back.

And now it's back. Ian Mackay, Henry Rollins, bringing it back. The middle-aged people are rejoicing. The Gen Xers are rejoicing. It's going to be a good time. It's going to be a good time, Ian. Fun fact, I looked up that wild flag record on Metacritic. 83 with 37 critic reviews.

2011 was a very different time for the music community. 37. 37. It's unbelievable how many places reviewed albums back then, how easy it was to get paid. Yeah, and it's like, man, I love the media and I want there to be a lot of outlets. I also kind of think, do you need 37 publications writing about wild flag? There might be some redundancy there. I don't know.

We'll see, though. In the modern age, it would just be substacks. Like, Metacritics got to open it up to substacks at some point. Let's do the yay or nay segment here before we depart this episode. Yay or nay, of course, it's for all the kids out there for the IG, the TikTok. We're talking about a band here. I don't know if this band's big on TikTok. We'll have to see.

Maybe they've had a viral hit. I don't know. I think they have. I think this year is viral. That's true. Okay, well, the band we're talking about this week is The Mountain Goats, and we're talking about them because they have a new album out this week called Through This Fire Across from Peter Balkin. Yes, that is the whole album title. This is their 23rd album.

23 albums. That's incredible. I mean, I feel like they've gotten more prolific as they've aged. You know, like back in the 2000s, I feel like you'd get a Mountain Ghost record maybe every other year. Now it's like definitely every year from this band. So what's yearn a name Mountain Goats? Venerable indie folk institution or atonal and boring story songs, yea or nay, I'll go first.

There's a lot I admire about the Mountain Goats. I think John Donnell is clearly an imaginative writer who could build worlds in his songs and immerse the listener with all of these really rich and detailed literary flourishes. He's also very prolific with scores of albums dating back to the 2000s. and it's clear that the Mountain Goats have built a very loyal fan base that connects strongly with their music. But what about that music? That, unfortunately, is the one thing about the Mountain Goats.

I can't really endorse. I can read John Daniels' lyrics on a page and really marvel at the ability that he has as a writer. But when I hear him sing those lyrics, I'm just immediately taken out. I don't think there's a band I've tried to like more than this one because they're adjacent to so many other bands that I like. But John Donnell's voice is always the red line for me. I like a lot of unconventional singers, but there's something about his voice in particular that I just find instantly grating. Like, I literally can't take it. So I don't know. This is probably, it's not you, it's me situation, but I got to say nay. Yeah, I feel this is a question we ask ourselves every six

months or so because, you know, Mountain Goats are putting out albums every six months or so. And also, I think there's this expectation that, you know, I'll say it reductively, guys like us are into the Mountain Goats. I think there's probably a huge overlap of people who are into, you know, whether it's Hold Steady or Japan Droids or what have you, who love Mountain Goats. I know they're a huge influence on bands I love. And they make me, I think there's sometimes like a sliding doors moment in your music

fandom and like when you're growing up where if you're, you miss the window for being into a certain band, it's just not going to happen. And I think that happened for me with the Mountain Goats. Like, if I had discovered them when I was listening to like bright eyes or whatever and I saw them as like kind of a more literary version of that, yeah, I probably would have been one of those people putting up a 23 album ranking list in Mountain Goats for Uprocks.com. You can see the other ones I've done. I really like the sunset tree, but I'm weirdly uninspired to go much deeper, even though all their albums are kind of sort of cut from the same cloth. I do think there's like a certain blue skyness to this band that makes it tough for me.

But it's, and I'm bummed about it because I think John Darniel's a cool guy. He writes really good books. I admire what they do. They are really marching to their own drum. But yeah, as far as like, will I choose to put on a Mountain Goats album? The answer to that is nay. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something we're into this week.

Ian, why don't you go first? I'm surprised neither of us chose the reissue of Buffalo Tom Sleepy-Ey-Eyed, which came out last week, but in lieu of that, a band called Tape Trash. I always say trash tape. The name of the band is Tape Trash, and I'm going to read you the recommended if you likes that came with this. Block Party, JapanDroys, Jimmy Eat World, Mew.

I will say that this doesn't exactly sound like Celebration Rock, but a little more emo and a little more dance punk with a Scandinavian vocalist, but it doesn't not sound like that. And the fact that it's out on tiny engines, yeah, there was no way this wasn't going in Recommendation Corner, you know. With the way I describe it, I don't want to hype it up too much. It's just a very solid piece of what I'll describe as celebration rock, you know, to kind of go off our beachline conversation from last week.

You need some Japan Roy's adjacent style music. But not a lot of bands making this kind of really anthemic, and I would describe it almost like a two, early 2010 style indie rock where you know like whether you liked old cloud nothings or you liked old japan droids you know there hasn't been indie rock that's hit like this in a minute and you know it's coming out on tiny engines you know the quality control is high so tape trash eden um that's my recommendation for this week so i'm going to go with a british singer-songwriter named westerman who has an album out today called a jackal's wedding uh i'm a fan of this uh guy's records going back a few years

now, his 2023 album called an inbuilt fault, made my year-end list that year. And I liken that album to sort of an amalgam of like yacht rock sounding music, you know, very Christopher Cross, with elements of like Sting solo records from the 80s, which that sort of VH1 classic sounding music. I've always been a sucker for that. I mean, I was raised on that as a really little kid and it stuck with me over the years. Just like this really melodic, pretty, I'm going to say ethereal, sorry to use a music critic word, sounding music. I've always really kind of enjoyed that kind of soft rock vibe. And this album has a lot of those same qualities, but I would say it takes it more in an art

rock direction. Like I would say that there's songs on this record that really remind me of like the second Bunny Bear record. There's one song in particular that just sounds like it is very much in that. Beth rest type zone. So if that's the kind of thing that appeals to you, like a soft rock record that has kind of like an arty off-kilter sound to it,

I think you'll like this record as much as I do. Again, it's called a Jackal's Wedding, the artist's Westerman, and I recommend this record and all of his other records. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations,

sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.