Indiecast - A Very Packed Day For Album Releases

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Today is a very packed day for album releases, ranging from acclaimed indie acts (Clairo! Cassandra Jenkins! ) (34:00) to the opposite of acclaimed indie acts (a new Eric Clapton live album!) (10:15). Steven and Ian looked at the slate and decided to play FMK (2:00), touching on albums from Cigarettes After Sex (19:50), Eminem (17:00), Sturgill Simpson (23:15), Phish (8:00), Travis (12:00), and more. Steven also asked Ian for his thoughts on the recent Zach Bryan LP, and finds that Ian isn't really on board (26:15).In the mailbag, they answer a question about whether there are "Joe Biden-esque bands" that need to retire (38:30), and then they delve deep into amorphous concept known as Odelay-core (46:55).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks up the power pop band Macseal and Steven stumps for Detroit singer-songwriter Conor Lynch (53:40).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 197 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndieCast. On the show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about a very big week for new releases, and we respond to listener questions. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. For him, Cigarettes After Sex isn't just a band, it's a lifestyle.

Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? What I anticipate is that right now it's 7.06 a.m. Thursday, July 11th and I'm going to like black out and then come to when it's 806 and I've just like talked shit about cigarettes after sex for an entire hour. I don't want to skip ahead too far. But this band holds a special place in my heart as far as maybe the worst band in modern indie, big, whatever you want to call it. I don't want to skip ahead, but I can't wait to, I can't wait. There's just something so pernicious that, like, how can you be worse than your band name if your band name is cigarettes after sex? I don't know, but I'm excited to hear you go in on cigarettes after sex. I feel like we've all been waiting for the takedown of this band. But as I said in the introduction, this is a very stacked week for new releases.

and we're not going to be able to cover them all. So I want to play a little game with you, Ian. We're going to play a little game of fuck, merry kill, okay? Hell yeah. So we're going to go through these albums. I want you to pick a fuck album, a Kill album, and a Mary album. So we have new releases from Clero and Cassandra Jenkins. Cassandra Jenkins on your fantasy team.

I believe Clero is too. Oh, Clero is too. Okay, so Cassandra Jenkins, I know, is doing very well. Yeah. She's got like a 92 Metacritic, I think, right now. That's correct. But Clero just put up a 7.5 on pitchfork, which is like watching your first round draft pick explode their ACL during summer league.

Yeah, but that's his pitchfork. I mean, I think if that's not in the 80s, I'll be surprised. I really think that, like the Rolling Stone, they're going to like her. I saw the New Yorker put out a profile of her today. I think she'll be okay. Don't panic at the pitchfork. I feel like pitchfork is often on the low end of scores anyway. So, yeah.

If that's your floor, that's not too bad. So you have those two albums. You have Fish, new album. Sturgle Simpson, his album as Johnny Blue Skies is out today. A new M&M record. Oh, my God. An Eric Clapton live album. Woo!

Travis, the Brit Pop. Are they Brit Pop? I guess they're a little later than Brit Pop. They're like kind of fake Radiohead era, which is like my fucking wheelhouse. Well, their first album, though, was almost like fake Supergrass, I feel like. It was sort of like fake Oasis, fake suit.

It was in that era, but once they get hooked up with Nigel Godrich, they made a couple albums, which I still return to to this day. Andy DeFranco, new album out today Cigarettes after sex As we've already alluded to They have a new album out today

Jojo Siwa has a new album out today I don't know if we had to mention that one Probably not People talk about Joja Siwa at work And like to this day I still don't know what she actually does I don't know I feel like her thing lately has been showing up at pride events

And getting booed I feel like I saw a couple videos like that. I could be mistaken. By the way, the Adi to Franco record is called Unprecedented Shit. And I'm kind of surprised she didn't already have a record called Unprecedented Shit. That seems like a very Ani to Franco type album title. It sounds like a wean bootleg. I don't know.

I mean, I assume there's like some political commentary embedded in that album title, which makes it a very, you know, sort of timely record for the, moment that we're in because Ian one could say there's a lot of unprecedented shit going on right now in the world one could say that and that person is on it to Franco it's about time someone spoke up about the unprecedented shit in our times which by the way a lot of swearing in this episode already and I apologize for all the parents out there we're going to definitely earn because we we get the explicit like you have the little e next to our podcast on like Applepod and I think on Spotify I don't think we really swear that much,

but we're marked, we're branded with the scarlet letter of being an explicit podcast, so we might as well earn it. Endless scroll don't got a cuss in their pod to sell records. Well, I do, so that's our Eminem reference. That's true, that's true. So, I just listed off a bunch of albums.

There's also a common and Pete Rock record out today. There's a Mr. Big album. Remember Mr. Big? Do I remember Mr. Big? Yeah, like, it's funny because they had their huge hit, which was, you know, acoustic guitar, but like Billy Sheen and that other guy would always be in Guitar World talking about like how they're like the sickest guitarists ever. So it was a little bit of a mixed messaging thanks to Guitar World. Again, this is another episode where I mentioned reading Guitar World in the 90s. Yeah, I don't know any other Mr. Big songs other than their hit, which is, I'm the one who wants to.

be with you. One of the great songs that has like two key changes. Living on a Prayer is another example of that. Real wild stuff. I'm trying to remember if that was before Extreme. After. After. Okay.

Right. Extreme set the mold. Like we're going to, because you have Nuno Benacourt, another guitar world hero. Yes. Like, the guitar world people love Nuno Benacourt. He always shows up high on, uh, I feel like best guitarist lists. Yes.

People that just want to go crazy about porn or graffiti, too. Mm-hmm. Is there, because there's like a porn. Extreme two porn graffiti. That was the one with whole, both wholehearted. It was really interesting because that is also an acoustic song, but not like a more than word style power ballad. Right.

There's drums on that song. So it's more upbeat. But, yeah, all of their hits are acoustic. There's no electric extreme song. achieve critical mass. It's sort of like Queens Reich as well because their big song had like an acoustic guitar

even though they've also kind of similar to Extreme have very complicated album titles. Operation Mind Crime. Saigon Kick, we gotta mention them. Queensrack also had Jet City Woman though. And that was like a medium MTV hit.

That's a rocker. So they're not totally going acoustic. Silent Lucidity, I think, is the best of that camp. Yeah, because it sounds like Pink Floyd. Yeah, exactly. It sounds like Wish You Were Here. I'm giving them the crown of the acoustic metalhead power ballad generation,

the 90-91 pre-Nirvana bands. While we got sidetracked, I'm Mr. Big there. Let's get back to the game. Fuck Merry Kill. Of the new releases out today, what are your choices? Yeah, so, I mean, if we're talking about like fuck, meaning the one that I'm like kind of excited about even though like I'll probably regret it.

It's got to be a new fish album because A, it's called evolve and both the album title evolve and the cover have very heavy latter day pearl jam energy to it. They're going to make an out they're both that they're going to like converge and make the same album

but I have no idea what a fish album's going to sound like. I feel like that's sonata. I don't know like you could say Pearl Jam album covers have late period fish energy too. I don't know who originates that. It's a very sort of like Strom Thurgesson looking cover.

Yes. I would say, and he's passed away, sadly, uh, strong Thurgisen for those who don't know, making another Pink Floyd reference. He was like their in-house album cover guy.

But yeah, there's like a big cube floating over a group of people in like a desert landscape type thing. Yeah, very heavily, heavily strombed out. But,

um, yeah, I just don't know what a fish album would like a studio album because like I've heard bits and pieces of like farmhouse and billy breathes and uh hoist but you know like what what are they doing to make a studio like why are they making a studio album in 2024 um but beyond that tree needs to man tray needs to feed his uh artistic energy which by the i'm a little disappointed i'm a little disappointed i'm saying this because you've just inadvertently admitted that you didn't read my review of sigma oasis the previous

fish studio record from a few years back, which is a pretty good record, actually. You know, their records in later period, it's really just about, you know, preserving the live energy in relatively succinct songs. I mean, although, I know Sigma Oasis had some jammed out parts to it, I haven't heard of Alp yet,

but I don't know. I'm guessing it has a tasteful palate to quote my friend Jake Longstreth I think if you heard this album he would say it has a tasty pal and I have a feeling it will when I hear it I yeah and I also like my like one B in this category is the

Eric Clapton live album if only if only because if only like I'm like fast forwarding through the music I'm like hoping it's got some like truly bonkers stage banter because like I've never thought of Eric Clapton as like a stage band or guy it's not like we're talking about like a Van Morrison live album but you know like I

I'm just like hoping that like Eric Clapton just goes off on something or other. Like I would, again, this is like a, you know, this is a, I'm going to go forward with this. I'm going to regret it. I don't endorse his views, but I mean, this is what's going to get me to listen to an Eric Clapton now in 2024. Yeah, I can't believe that you're putting it in this category. To Save a Child is the name of the record. There's a CD and a DVD Blu-ray component. Would you be shocked to learn that Layla?

is on this album. How many times? Just one version of Leila. It's not like Kiss where they do rock and roll all night like at the beginning and the end of the show. Well, what I'm not clear on is if it's the like Derek and the Domino style Leila or if it's the MTV Unplugged style Leila because both were hits.

And this is billed as an intimate live concert. So maybe that means it's acoustic. So maybe he's doing like the MTV unplugged. Because tears in heaven is, it precedes it on the track list. Oh, geez. But there's a lot of blues on here, too. Would you, would you be surprised there's some blues covers on this album? The Ouchy Fauci, Ouchie Blues or whatever the heck he's on these days.

I mean, Clapton has had some, he's had some bonkers stage pattern moments. I mean, his most notorious is from the mid-70s. That's when he went on that racist rant about immigrants. and, you know, he was supposedly, like, drunk out of his gourd at the time. He was like, I read, I read Clapton's memoir, so I... You did. I remember reading that in your favorite band is killing me. I'm like, damn, you went, like, you got into the lore. I mean, I can't hate on Clapton completely because I like his 60s work.

I like him in the bands that he was in. His solo career is largely super boring, but cream, yardbirds, Derek and the Domino's Blind Faith. I like all those bands, but that was 50 years ago at this point. So, wow. Okay, that's a shock. Because I'm going to mention this album, too, but not in this category. So anyway, so those are your two fuck albums.

What's your Mary album? Well, I mean, it's got to be Travis because, you know, the invisible band, The Man Who, those were really there for me. You know, I also like their darker, more introspective 12 memories. which was like kind of their anti-war album where Fran Healy wore a beret and press photos. Apparently I reviewed a Travis album for Pitchfork sometime in the past 15 years.

I don't believe I did that. I don't remember it. But, you know, this week was having a pretty shitty week. I'm like, I need some comfort right now. Like, I'm sort of like carmy where I don't process my emotions. I just get to cooking and like listening to, you know, instead of listening to a ghost is born, I put on the Invisible Band.

And you know what? I was feeling better. I know their new album is called the LA Times. Why? I guess that is right for discovery. But you know what? Like Travis, they've been there for me.

I actually did a ringer piece on them in 2019 for the 20th anniversary of the man who. I think they were doing like a 1999 week. Yeah. And obviously, yeah, great guy to talk to. He would talk about how Chris Martin of Cole play like prior to parachutes would show up like side stage to Travis shows and just basically like steal their whole shit.

which in 2000 you could say that but you know it's pretty obvious they diverged from that point forward by the way that ringer piece you wrote it would have been for the 20th anniversary because the 25th anniversary was just a few months ago right this record dropped in 99 the man who is like the only record of theirs i really know and i i enjoy that record um you'll you'll like the invisible band it's like their antics or room on fire yeah but i got that record at the time because i liked the man who and I didn't really get into the invisible band. I remember that song Sing. Yes.

That was like the lead single. It's like, that's okay. Yeah. I was like, I only need the man who. I mean, if you are into Nigel Godrich

guitar tone porn, the man who is like great. I mean, like those, like the, you know, the mix, the rich mix of acoustic

and electric guitars that you get on okay computer and that radio head was like, okay, we're not going to do this anymore. Partly because of bands like, Travis being on the radio and Tom York being like I can't these people are jacking our old sound we can't do this anymore but like yeah like driftwood writing to reach you some of the most

tasteful panning stereo panning you will hear of that era just immaculate I mean Tom York must have gotten Nigel Goddrich on the horn and been like what the fuck dude really Nigel's got to eat too though I know but he's come on man this is tough well no oh wait Wasis was pissed off at Travis because writing to reach you was more or less a rip off of Wonderwall and they mentioned Wonderwall in the lyrics. Right. But I think that's like a tip of the cap. You know, if you're going to mention the song title, I think it's acceptable. Okay.

Well, I guess we know what your kill is. Not necessarily. I mean, fuck Mary and Kill is like the first two M&M albums. And you know what? I would listen to a cigarette after sex album just to like shit on it because. I mean, not that I think they need to be taken down a peg. You know, since they're, they were like kind of like a TikTok style success back in 2016 where they had that song, never going to hurt something like that, never going to hurt you where it kind of came out of nowhere and got like 200 million Spotify streams.

And they just kept making the same exact song. And it's somehow like even if all their songs are the same, I just can't believe what I'm hearing with them. They are just like, it reminds you of like Robert Durst and the Jinks where he's like, please, I'm begging you to put me in jail for murder. Like, cigarettes after sex. Like, I just feel you're going to hear some stuff about them at some point. It just seems like so skeevy that it's either this person has to be like super religious and playing like an act or it's that person. So I don't think they're as prominent in my life as they were like five or so years ago. but yeah just like one of the worst out there but eminem like i can't think of a dollar amount that would

get me to listen to this album like it is his his career over the past 20 years is just the most grim shit like just whether he's doing he's like either making like sobriety power ballads or like the real slim shady part 4 000 you know it just reminds me of like marvel movies and like the new dave chapelled netflix specials and joe rogan and the presidential to debate. It's just all these things. It's like, how is this still as popular as it is? And, you know, he's got that new song Houdini, which is extremely popular. Like, uh, he's doing the still doing the lyrical, miracle, diabolical, philosophical thing. And people eat that shit up. Um, yeah, I just don't know whether I dislike power ballad, sobriety, you know, love the way you lie, Eminem, or like, you know,

cancel, like post-cancel culture Eminem where he's not, I don't think he's, he's probably talking about cancel culture. I'm gonna like set a, like, we'll do an over-under on like how quickly on this new record he mentions, like woke or cancel culture. It's probably,

I would set it at one minute, depending on whether or not there's a Ken Kinth intro. I assume he's taking a pot shot at like some pop stars too. Oh yeah. There's got to be, did he mention someone on Houdini? I feel like I saw a story on it. And then I immediately forgot.

it. Does he know who Chapel Rhone is? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look, Eminem, he is, he's in that zone now, like, where he's so rich that, like, every time you see him, he looks really waxy. Like, he has this beard now that looks like it's painted on, you know, or, like, someone got a Sharpie and drew a beard on his face. And I don't know if he's just had, like, a lot of plastic surgery or Botox. Like, he just looks kind of, like, uncanny. Like, he looks. Yeah. He looks. He looks like the Def Jam Vandetta version of himself, but like 20 years later. Yeah, it's like a, you know, it's like someone got like a crash test dummy that looks like Eminem and is like parading him around. You know, I don't know.

It's a very kind of weird thing with him. But, you know, like you said, he's hugely successful. Like, there's no reason for him to stop because the public clearly loves what he does. They want to see this guy grinding his teeth while wrapping, like, just. you know sort of straining so hard to get the words it's like the one of like the most unpleasant sounds at this point to hear m&m rap like when he was young there was like he had that sort of like ingway momstein's a rap thing going on like where he we are going fast full guitar world this episode true it's true i wanted to drop an ingway uh reference there um looking up cigarettes

After Sex on Spotify, just their streaming numbers. And look, we do this with a lot of bands where we're just like, God, they're so popular. They're way more popular than, than they seem like in the media, like people writing about them or talking about them. Almost 24 million monthly listeners for cigarettes after sex. They have a song over a billion streams, a song of Apocalypse. Oh, Apocalypse? That's not even the song that I'm thinking of. Like, wow.

They have several, like, songs hovering around. half a billion streams cry k sunsets with a z with a z um god man i can't if you put a gun to my head i could not describe what this band sounds like i'm guessing that they're kind of electronic like electronic pop not at all they sound like uh lynchian is the uh lynchian would be the operative term like their first song never like nothing's gonna hurt you that's the name of it i actually kind of like that song but it sounds like it could have it was like in that time period before i think we got the twin peaks um you know reboot where and before like mazzy star was uh taken up as like a formative influence on modern indie rock like no one was really doing that thing and they did it like so

blatantly uh and so yeah they just did it in a way where it's like oh shit like they don't make him like this anymore and then he continued to make like a billion songs that sound exactly like it um yeah it's so it's one guy uh no it appears i thought it was one guy but i'm looking at spotify it's apparently three guys now okay um yeah so they're they're the kind of band like i put them in if they don't even sound like them i would put them in the same category as like you know black pumas or like lord Huron where they're just so much more popular than bands

that you would think, like, do this but more classy or more indie. This, I mean, I don't think they, I don't think they're, I don't think they're like a draw in terms of festivals, but they could do it. Like, they're just that popular amongst people who don't, like, this is like

a band person who will tell you, like, they listen to, like, you know, Taylor Swift and, like, chapel room. But this is like the one, I'm into indie music, like cigarettes after sex. Yeah, they seem like a perfect streaming platform band. Totally. You just put it on. It's on in the background.

It sounds pretty good, but you don't have to really pay attention to it. And then before you know it, the song's been streamed 1.3 billion times. Like, people just forgot to turn it off. That's how they get all these streams, I think. People that didn't realize it was still on. It's like, holy shit. I've just streamed this song 1.3 billion times. What have I done?

Do you think like David Lynch listens to cigarettes after sex and thinks, oh yeah, this is like me? I think it's like a Tom York Travis situation where it's like, he's like calling up the guy personally. I'm like, dude, you're driving down. You're driving down like my profit center here. I just like the idea of David Lynch describing things as Lynchian. Yeah. I just went to the bathroom. That was very lynchian.

Yeah. Total Lynch. It's like Neil Young with horse with no name. Yeah, exactly. All right. I'll do my fuck Mary Kill. For fuck, I'm going to say the Sergill Simpson record, Johnny Blue Skies. Passage DeZer is what it's called.

I wrote about this for Uprox. And it's interesting with this record because, so Sergill, he made this proclamation early in his career that he was only going to make five albums as Sergill Simpson. And that's not exactly true because he made. seven albums as Sturgle Simpson. He put out two records in the early 2020s. They were called Cut and Grass,

and they were like bluegrass reworking of his old songs. But I guess we're not counting those albums. I don't know. It's very interesting to me. But anyway, he put out his last official album of Sturgel Simpson a few years ago. So now he has this album, Johnny Blues, guys.

And I like the record quite a bit. It's interesting to me because this is the record, I think that his label would have wanted him to make in the late 2010s, right after his third record, A Sailor's Guide to Earth, which was the record that was nominated for an album of the year Grammy. I don't know if people remember that. Like, Sturgle Simpson was like a huge kind of like mainstream entering star,

kind of like what Zach Bryan has become. I feel like he was on the verge of that. And then he did a hard pivot until like sound and fury. that record, which is a record I love, but like was not very popular. This new record as Johnny Blue Skies, it's kind of like a John Mayer record. Like it sounds a lot like a John Mayer record to me from like early John Mayer when he was doing, you know, like a lot of blues guitar kind of tasteful pop blues guitar type music. Not like rude for squares, but like that stuff after that.

heavier things that record I was trying to think of that album title and even like you know that album try he did with the John Mayer trio it's kind of like that it's like a very kind of like a yacht rocky soft rock record with like a lot of blues guitar and like some psychedelic

elements like that you could tell that he's kind of acknowledging his jam band following I think with this record a bit and I don't know it's more in the style I think of Sailor's Guide to Earth that anything he's done since. So, weirdly, I feel like this could be one of his more popular records,

even though it's, like, not a Sturgel Simpson record. He's also going on tour for the first time in a long time, and it feels like this record was made to be played live. Like, it feels like that to me. So I like this record a lot. I don't know, because I've written about this record, and I wrote about the Zach Bryan record last week. I feel like this world is far outside the Ian Cohen.

sphere. Like, have you listened? You haven't heard Sturgell yet, I don't think, but you know, did you hear that Zach Bryan record? Yeah, I did. And I mean, Zach Brian, he like co-signs like a lot of music I like. I think he occasionally posts on Twitter stuff about, yo, I love Midwest emo, even though he's like posting about like the front bottoms. And he likes Howdy. I know that for a fact, which is great. But I gave some cursory listens to the previous two Zach Ryan albums. And I don't know. It's like he seems like a good guy, heart in the right place.

But I think I like actively, like I actively kind of loathed what I was hearing on this album because this is, and the new album was called the Great American Bar scene. Correct. It came out last Friday.

Yeah. Right on fourth of July. I think it was like on Fourth of July, actually. Well, it was July 5th. The fifth was Friday. Gotcha. And. Well, no, you're right, though.

It did come out a little bit early though. Yeah. So it did, yeah, come out on the fourth, like that night. Yeah. Well, no, you're right. It came on earlier on the 4th. Yes.

Yes. Sorry. Real life fact checking. We don't need an intern. Yeah, I know. I know. I corrected you and then I keep correcting myself. Anyway, yeah, it came out on the 4th of July.

Yeah. So I gave it a listen, you know, on July 4th. And I did this before I read your article about it. And I found it kind of odd that he was doing all these, like, lines about, like, you know, the Point Breeze boys. and the guy's in Jersey because like first off like I don't know dude like you're from Oklahoma I want to hear some like Tulsa King style mob stuff instead of the Bruce Springsteen Atlantic City kind of thing and of course Bruce Springsteen shows up at the end but one there's one

line that stuck out to me where he's like and I'm paraphrasing like I like my guitar's out of tune and my bartender's mean and I'm like that I just feel like I feel that he's being completely sincere but like a lot of people you see on like Twitter or whatever. He's so embodying like type of guy signifiers that it's almost hard to think of him as like a guy. And, you know, every song, he also makes me think more of like a mountain goats type guy than a Springsteen guy because a lot of his songs are kind of the same.

You know, it's like an acoustic guitar. Well, musically. Yeah, musically. Yeah. I mean, like his weakness, I think, is music. Like he writes a lot of mid-tempo kind of ballady type songs. Right. I do like a lot of his lyrics.

I think you're giving him a little bit short-trip on his lyrics because I think he is good at storytelling and setting a scene and creating images in your head. I mean, this record has a lot of Bruce Springsteen references on it. And like Bruce himself shows up at the end of the record on a song called Sandpaper, which is like a blatant rip-off of I'm on fire. It's like a pretty like... This is definitely what we need.

Obvious bite of that. But like musically, he's more Nebraska. got them born in the USA. Right. And my critique of the record would be, and this is my critique of his music in general, because I think he is a good songwriter, but I just wish he did a little bit more arrangement-wise

or production-wise. I think his records sound a little flat, and he needs more drums. It's way too many same. He either needs to cut down the number of songs on his records. This song had 19 on it. I mean, American Heartbreak, which is his big breakthrough record.

I think there's like 34 songs on that on it. Yeah, this one's like Joyce Manor by comparison. Right, but it still feels long because there's quite a few samey sounding songs on it. But I like him more than you. But yeah, there's definitely a lot of like Atlantic City type references. I appreciate that he didn't actually say the phrase chicken man on this record. I was waiting for him to say that. But there's no poultry related lyrics on the record.

record. Anyway, getting back to my, uh, fuck Mary Kill here. Let's go to Mary. I'll say fish evolve. Um, you know, I'm a fish fan. I haven't heard this record yet. I've heard some of these songs played live, like when I went to see fish at the sphere a few, a few months ago. Uh, they played some of these songs. Um, and they sounded a good live. Um, like you were saying, it feels a little, uh, sort of unnecessary for Fish to make a studio record at this point. But I respect Trey. I respect his love of the game. I respect that he wants to keep making records with strong thurgensen looking covers.

So good for them. Kill, it's got to be this Eric Clapton live record. I can't believe you put that in your fuck category. That is unbelievable. I respect it. But yeah, come on. we don't need this album in the world. And I guess I'd throw Eminem in there too.

Again, whoever gets assigned that record to review. I mean, is that going to be the person who's new and is just desperate to review anything? Or is it the older person, like the grizzled middle-aged critic who is sort of called upon to review legacy things? Like maybe you, Ian, would have called on to review this.

Yeah, I think I reviewed one of those albums back in 2009. I think it was relapse and it was horrifying, just a terrible album. But I don't know. I feel like, and I might just be making this up, this, I really can't confirm this, but I feel like there was some older rock critics who were like pushing against, you know, the easy jabs. People were making M&M. It's like, no, man, it's like technical proficient.

Like, you're just, you just can't, it's like the same people who would tell you that the killer mic album was awesome. Yeah, I feel as if there's like a contingent of people who, like, I feel like Robert Criscow types. Like I might be making that up. Is there like a guitar world type publication for like rap heads like that who are big on technical proficiency? You know, people that just want to talk about, you know, speed.

Bars. Or bars, yeah. like complex rhyme schemes. Like, is there a guitar world equivalent to that? I don't know if there's... I don't know if there is. I don't know if there is. I think it's like message boards or just like people who still buy CDs of like Eminem in real life.

Like that those people are out there, but I don't think they have like a meeting place that we could identify as quickly as like guitar world. And by the way, this week I saw on Twitter there was people, there was somebody posting like Joe Satriani and Steve Vy. just like shredding on stage and it's right yeah like there was that like went a little bit viral i haven't watched it yet i know that that's hilarious you know you're in the dog days of summer when there's steve i slash jo satriani post going viral like what are we doing here like have we yay or nay dream theater yet i'm gonna say yay uh dream theater i like dream theater

Joe Satriani, I'll yay him too. Steve I don't really get. I know like he is a hero to the guitar world people because of his work with Frank Zappa. I think that was... That's like his big cred move. I mainly know him because he was in David Lee Roth's band. Fuck, yeah.

In the mid-80s. Like, I think he's in the Just Like Paradise Video playing guitar. Like one of those... And I, you know, like when I was a little kid, I remember seeing those. Um, have you listened to either the Clara or Cassandra Jenkins albums yet? I mean, those are the big albums, I guess, in our world this week. Have you, have you heard either one of those? Yeah. I mean, I got the Cassandra Jenkins album pretty early and some people I trust, you know, which like has said, this is, you know, personal, if not album of the year, like top 10 status. It's like a big leap over her last album, which I enjoyed it. I thought it was like hard, like hard drive was doing most of the work for it. Um, I listened to it. I enjoyed it. I enjoy. I enjoy. it. You know, I haven't given it my full attention yet. I think this is a sort of album where

I feel the reviews are going to help me hear it more. With Clero, I haven't heard the whole thing yet, but the songs I have heard, it wasn't just Jack Antonoff putting her in that soul singer-songwriter 70s category. This one has like a member of the Dap Tones producing. So it sounded good. It sounded tasteful, you know, would I listen to it if it was a new artist as opposed to the person who made North, then I don't think so, but I'm sure I'll give it a listen tomorrow. Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't feeling the singles, really. So I don't really know how to feel about the Claro album. Yeah, Cassandra Jenkins, I dabbled in that record a little bit. I need to give it more attention. But I mean, she's definitely in that, you know, sort of like Caroline Polichick

vein of like just, like, that is the critic bait now in the 2020s. Like when people talk about, I feel like when people talk about indie music, they still kind of refer to, like they make, they'll make a joke about the national or something. Yeah. But it's really this. Like this is like what indie music is in terms of what's most. talked about and what's most adored. I mean, so you need to adjust your jokes, I think, at this point to refer to artists like this. Not that this record should be made fun of. I'm just saying that this is what signifies what is in the vanguard of considered like the best in this field.

All right, it's time for our mailbag segment. Thank you all for writing in. It's always great to hear from our listeners. Speaking of hearing from our listeners, I just want to do a quick shout out. to the hideout in Chicago, great music venue. They hosted me this week for a book event. It was on Tuesday. It was co-hosted by my friend Rob Mitchum,

another pitchfork writer, another podcast husband of mine. I was connecting with all my podcast hosts for these book events. It's been great. Definitely ran to some Indycast listeners, Ian, at the event. They were sending their best. People kept joking about bringing donuts. But no one actually did. I was actually emailing with a prominent indie rocker this week in L.A. based.

I'll tell you off Mike who it was, who told me that he almost showed up to our event, but he couldn't make it. And then he made a donut joke. He said, I could have grabbed one of those donuts if I had gone. So the donut. Gate, it has legs. This is, this controversy isn't going away, Ian. I don't know. This, it could be a hot summer here. We might have to do a, like, a George Stephanopoulos interview or something to try to curb the tide here with Donutate Gate. But anyway, it was a great event in Chicago. If you were there, thank you so much. This has been such an awesome book tour,

the best events I've ever done. So, thank you all for coming out. Let's get to our first letter here. Ian, this comes from Brad. Comes from Brad. I don't think Brad said where he was from. Maybe Brad just assumed that we know it was him. It's like, hey, it's Brad. Oh, yeah, Brad.

Okay. It's like the Mike McCready project, the side project? Or is that Stone Gossert? That's Stone Gossert. Gotcha. Yeah, that's Stone. You want to read this letter, Ian? Right on.

I will. So, yeah, this is Brad from D.C. Oh, yeah. Oh, he says it in the first line of the email. Okay, I'm sorry. Normally people put it at the end, like Brad from D.C. I'm just saying maybe that would have been helpful. But my bad.

All right. So he's sending out an SOS from the sweltering heat and political, quote, unquote, discourse of Washington, D.C. Without wanting you to get too far into politics cast as I rely on you guys for an escape from the should Biden dropout blog. podcasts and think pieces, I wonder whether there are any indie legends who you feel have done a disservice to their music and should get out before they do lasting damage to their legacies and the people. In 2020, I compared Joe Biden to super chunk, but now Biden risked being the pixies are in my personal view modest mouse, letting his ego and vanity overtake the reality. So who else in the indie world is teetering on that legend should ride out now

before it's too late? Given how DC's own Fugazi went out on top and has never looked back, maybe we need Ian Mackay, who lives in my neighborhood, and I see every weekend walking in the farmer's market to talk to Biden, and whichever band you nominate. Thanks, as always, for your great work. You help keep our substack. Three albums, six old guys, filled great ideas, Brad. So, a lot to unpack here. Brad, taking some shots here. Take it, take it some, well, look, I thought he was setting up superchunk to be like a senile old band that ought to step a step of side, but he didn't quite totally go there, just saying that, like, they're a band that's been reliable and maybe isn't your favorite, but they've, you know, done a lot of good work over the

years. And then Brad does take some shots at Pixies and Modest Mouse and saying that they ought to step aside. It's hard for me to ever say, like, a band should step aside. I feel like, you know, that's your own choice, and it's not really up to me or anyone else to say that you can't be out there. I mean, my favorite musician of all time, as I've said many times, is Bob Dylan. And he's even older than Joe Biden. He's 83. And he's out on the road this summer. He's playing in like southern markets where it's like 95 degrees in the shade.

He's wearing a tunic that's like open to his navel, playing the piano, playing deep cuts from like under the red sky, playing some Grateful Dead covers, confounding audiences. who just want to hear blown in the wind and like a Rolling Stone and he's doing it man he's lucid as hell playing some great shows so obviously he doesn't need to go

I mean Willie Nelson is on the same tour he's like 91 he's still going he was sick for a while but he's back playing guitar just sounding great yeah and if those guys do

I don't know what excuse Joe Biden has I'll be real with you well yeah exactly but um so I don't know it's hard for me to say I mean, I don't know about modest mouse.

I won't group them in there because I still feel like Isaac Brock could write a great record. I don't think he's out for the count by any stretch of the imagination. And even like the records that they've done recently that don't fully connect,

I still feel like there's like some interesting things going on. And maybe, like, that will be his version of like Empire Burlesque. And like in 40 years, people will go back to those mouse mouse records and enjoy them. Pixies definitely seem like

they should be. like that, but I also feel like the Pixies, I don't know if they're pretending to be anything other than the nostalgia band at this point. Yeah. If people want to go see them play, where's my mind? You know, who am I to say that they shouldn't do that? Um, so I don't have a great answer for this. Do you, do you have anyone that you think should, uh, be forced out by the 25th amendment? Yeah. I mean, I think I will lightly push back on the super chunk Joe Biden comparison. Even if Superchunks like one of those bands that we talked about in the past where I like the bands they've influenced more than them themselves, I can't believe I'm 44 and haven't reviewed a

super chunk album. But I mean, like even like a band like the Flaming Lips who are strictly nostalgia, just like kind of a theme park, you know, they may have. They made the terror 11 years ago. They're not totally washed yet, you know. But as far as, I can't think of too many indie bands who I'd put in this situation because, like, A, you're right. I think that they should get money on the road. It's hard for people to make a living. And, you know, maybe some of these people will go through like a decade or longer wilderness period like, like Neil Young or Bob Dylan did and make late career masterpieces.

But as far as like I wish they'd stop because I feel like embarrassed in a weird like embarrassed just by watching these guys like secondhand cringe. Like Wu Tang doesn't make music anymore. But I find their continued presence on the touring circuit to be kind of faintly embarrassing. I think people will continue to like discover Wu Tang and see like that their early stuff is the greatest shit ever. but I feel like kind of personally embarrassed when I see them like playing the House of Blues in secondary markets. Eminem is absolutely in corn pop mode. And, you know, that's not an artist that was like super meaningful to me. But, you know, nowadays what you'll see going viral are like Method Man playing like half empty summer jam stages or this other thing that happened where Buster Rhymes is playing Essence Fest.

And it was just so black Keys arena show level empty. And people on their phones and he went on and ran about it. So oddly enough, I think rap is where I feel the most, I feel the most strongly about shutting it down before you get old. Yeah, rap. I mean, that is an unforgiving scene. Yes. There where, yeah, it just seems like it's hard to, you know,

it's not like rock. where you can just be a band, you haven't had it in 20 years, and as long as you're still good live band, it doesn't really matter. People will pay to see you, and they're not as judgmental. Public enemy can kind of get away with it. Yeah, they still go. Well, Eminem can get away. He's like, he's 50, right?

Yeah. And yeah, he's in corn pop mode, maybe artistically, but his poll numbers are huge. He's not losing any elections anytime soon. That's the Rust Belt Firewall right there. Yeah, he's, yeah, he's, Like, I don't know. He's indestructible, I think.

So you definitely can't force him out of office because he's got the numbers. He's got the mandate. He's going to weigh any election. Yeah, he's got the mandate of the people. For whatever reason, they want to hear new M&M music. I don't understand it myself, but the public, they want it. And Eminem, by God, is going to give it to him. I mean, he does look Biden-esque, though.

Not to keep harping on Eminem's appearance. I feel bad. you know, good for him, but he does have that uncanny look about him that Biden does at this point. Yeah, just like the Botox, like Botox, ozempic face, like shot up, well, I mean, not shot up with a speedball,

but, you know, because I'm sober. And he, like, actually, I think he wears like a, like a AA chain, which looks like it's aluminum, it makes him look like he's Illuminati because it's like a triangle, but yeah, it's just the very, I think all rich people,

like people of that level of wealth just look bizarre. But Eminem in particular, he just kind of looks like a PlayStation 3-era rendering of a person. You know, maybe Biden, maybe the solution there is for someone to get the Sharpie and draw the beard on him, too.

Let's get to our next letter here. And I will read this one. This one comes from Ben. And he's in Sao Paulo. Where's that again? That's South America, right? It's Brazil, yeah. Yeah, South America.

Okay. I'm not up on my Brazilian cities, I have to say. Anyway, Buenos Aires. I know that's in Brazil. That's Argentina. I just watch more 90-day... I watch more 90-day fiancé than you do, so I still have the South America capitals memorized.

I said that with such confidence, too. I was like, oh, of course it's there and totally wrong. Hey Stephen and Ian, I've thought a lot about the construct you've described as O'Delacor in recent months. For those who missed this, I think we used this to talk about the, this is Lorelei record. Yes. Which was on my mid-year list of my favorite albums of 2024. There are the painfully obvious examples, Citizen King, Milwaukee's Own, probably being the hard number one in Smash Mouth, as you discuss. in that episode.

But there exist cases I'm not sure that I can confidently define as Otolac Corps. In the interest of a fuller understanding of what Beck's impact has been, I'm looking for you to do a quick, yay or nay on three examples. Are the Bared Naked Ladies Otolite Corps? Is Ben Folds Rockin' The Suburbs,

Otelac Corps? It's LCD Sound Systems American Dream post-Otelate Corps. Thank you for your consideration. I'm going to answer this right away, and we'll hear what you have to say. I'm going to go no on all those. I don't think any of those are O'Dole at all.

Like, to me, O'Dale Corps is taking, like, a singer-songwriter aesthetic and applying, like, hip-hop beats to it. Like, that in the short order is what it is. Like, if you listen to O'Dolee, Beck's a singer-songwriter, and he's produced by the Dust Brothers, who did Paul's Boutique with the Beastie Boys.

You know, and there's samples on that record, and there's, like, a lot of, like, you know, like hip-hop beats on that record. So I don't think that applies to the bare-naked ladies or Ben Folds, certainly not LCD sound system. So Ben, no offense, but I question your police work here. I don't understand how those are coming up. I was thinking about this,

and I realized that I think a lot of modern country music is actually closer to like Odale core, where you have like a lot of these country singers that are like flirting with rap music. music. Like Morgan Wallen, I think, in some respects, could be described as Odley Khor, or like, whatever Post Malone is doing right now is Odley Core to me. Or have you heard that Shibuzi song? Not yet, but I see that's making some waves. That's like charting really high. Yeah, it's like, if I've been writing in lifts for the last few days and I heard that song

and the Benson Boone song a bunch. I've heard that Benson Boone song. Fuck, man. I thought this was like some sort of, I don't know, lightly fictionalized Bo Burnham, like in some movie that I haven't seen. But, man, this world is fucking passing me by, man. It's like, you know, it's sort of like a link in the chain from Zach Bryan to Noah Cahan and then the Spenson Boone guy. And it just gets worse as you go farther down the trough. like just like a like wimpy voiced guy with an acoustic guitar over singing about trauma you know like that kind of stuff oh hell yeah it's bad but i don't know i don't know if this is an outrageous claim to make but i like if you define odley core in that way that singer-starwriter plus hip-hop influence

i think modern country music is waving the odley flag in 2024 yeah i'm glad that ben has brought this subject to the four because I love talking about like this specific slice of mid-90s music. But yeah, none of this shit is Odleycore. Like the most obvious example of Odleycore as like a hit is Mbop because, you know, it's got the Dust Brothers production. There's like record scratching. There's, you know, weird religious affiliations with the blonde guy.

Or Eels. Like Eels is like clearly the candlebox or Stone Temple pilots of Odley core. like as in this person wouldn't have an ongoing career without it but you know we talk about cigarettes after sex man and this is just like bare naked ladies like they were doing their own thing prior to be back um they're kind of more in the lineage they might be giants they were like beck was cool back was artsy back made music with k records um and by the time like odalacor you know kind of came to the fore uh one week was just right place right time one of the worst one of the worst fucking bands of all time.

Like, I will never voluntarily listen to a single second of Bare Naked Ladies' music. One of the worst to ever do it. If I had a million dollars. You know what? Better that than fucking pinch me, which still plays at Sprouts every now and again. It's got that one line.

I made you say underwear. But I think generally speaking, like, Odley core is like such a small thing. Like, it's an idea, but it wasn't a real thing. What happened is that I think it merged with like posts a blind core which is how we got like smash mouth and sugar ray and like the weird quentin tarentino core thing that gave us fun loving criminals which is not all that dissimilar but yeah ben folds would have written rock in the suburbs if beck never happened also one of the worst songs of all fucking time

um just on like just bad shit on top of bad shit and else he's like a new metal rip too like he's yeah but well it's it's ripping on new metal but it sounds like ben folds you yeah you know, like certainly a guy who can, you know, claim to say, like, yeah, y'all don't know what it's like being young, middle class and white. Like, I bet Ben Folds does. American Dream, like, I don't know where that came from. Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah, but that boy, one of the most memory hold big indie islands of the 2010s. I mean, I listened to it, like when we did the shut up and played the hits episode.

Can't remember a single thing about it. But I think you're right in that. But if I were to listen to like modern, also there, I will say there is one song on the Howdy album called Forever, which is kind of Odleycore. I'm lying in bed, just like Brian Wilson dead. Sorry, I have all these bare naked ladies songs are coming into my head right now.

I can't, I'm dying a slow death here as you're talking about all the bands. Like short list of like worst bands of all time. I'm sure they're not. nice guys, but fuck, man. Just the worst to ever fucking do it. We now at least a part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first?

Yeah, a lot of good records snuck up on me recently. And the one I want to draw attention to is from a band called Max Seal. It's called Permanent Repeat. So, emo heads know these guys. They emerged in that kind of weird fourth than a half wave of emo. between 2016 and 2019 or so. Part of the Oso Oso extended universe, I believe one of the members used to play drums for them.

And they released this debut album of theirs in 2019. I gave it like a six point something in pitchfork. I was a little disappointed by it. It was kind of a neither here nor there. Power pop emo sort of thing. But this one took them five years to do it. It was getting a little bit of buzz from people I trust. And yeah, this is just a really enjoyable, catchy, well-crafted,

power pop album and like i mean power pop for real not lightly influenced by teenage fan club but it sounds like the less sticky uh songs from the first two fountains of wayne albums maybe like a hat and feet or a fine day for a parade you know those songs so uh great summer album it's about a half hour very enjoyable um yeah i just love the fact that they uh kind of stepped up after kind of making a not so, a record I didn't love a lot. It just kind of goes to show not to give up on bands too early. So Max Seal, permanent repeat. Yeah, that sounds like it might be up my alley. I'll check that one out. I want to talk about a record that actually came out a few months ago, like you, Ian, I've been catching up on records that I miss when they initially came out.

It's called Slow Country, and it's by a singer-songwriter from Detroit named Connor Lynch. And look, after taking so many shots at M&M in this episode, I feel like it behooves us to raise up Detroit here a little bit. So that's why I'm talking about this record. And also just because it's been really hitting me in the right place this week. As you might gather from the album title, this is definitely an alt-country leaning record, which means a lot of acoustic guitars, a lot of pedal steel on the record.

But there's also, I think, a pretty... pronounced like Elliot Smith influence on this record. It kind of sounds like if Elliot Smith had been influenced by like Wilco's being there when he made XO.

Like if that record had maybe a little bit more of like a country sound to it, I think it would end up sounding like slow country to me. And also Ian, I'm not just saying this to get to your attention. But there are some like emo traces

on this record as well. Like I've seen people write about Lynch in the past and compare his songwriting to pin back on previous records. This is his fourth record. I think that there's more like electronic elements on his previous records. This one is like maybe a little bit more like a kind of straightforward all country. But really good songs. And again, it's a good record for this type for this kind of year. We are in sort of like a slow time of the year. So why not listen to a record called slow country? So definitely check it out. Artist's name is Connor Lynch.

That's Connor with one N and an O and an R at the end, and then Lynch. So look that album up. Really good stuff. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email.

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