Indiecast - Alvvays + Bjork, Plus: Steve Lacy Is The Indie Success Story of 2022

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

Some bands are sprinters; they release new material with impressive speed. But other bands are more like marathon runners, taking their time with each project. Canadian indie pop group Alvvays are the latter since their new album Blue Rev is their first in five years. In this week's Indiecast, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen review marathoners Alvvays' latest release (25:27) as well as Björk's mushroom-inspired LP Fossora (36:42).The biggest music news of this week was a pleasantly surprising No. 1 single. It's Steve Lacey's R&B hit "Bad Habit," which dethroned Harry Styles' long-running "As It Was" No. 1 and it seems like a very organic ascent (45:58). In other news, indie music celebrated the 10th anniversary of a majorly influential album: Tame Impala's Lonerism. While the idea of celebrating album anniversaries is a relatively new phenomenon, it does encourage younger listeners to revisit classic albums in an age when we're constantly introduced to new music (:29).This week's Recommendation Corner (53:11) has Ian urging listeners to check out his recent interview with Will Sheff and his band Okkervil River's new album Nothing Special. Steven suggests Zach Bryan, a 26-year-old singer-songwriter whose 34-song LP American Heartbreak is one of the year's most sprawling albums.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 108 here or below and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review new albums by Always and Bjork and investigate the current number one song in America by Alt R&B artist Steve Lacey. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He celebrated the 10th anniversary of Lunarism by doing 10 extra power lifts at the gym.

Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? like just desperately looking back at my original review of loan or as in to see if I called it acid rock on steroids or steroid rock on acid like just a way to like use like both cliches at once. Have you ever used that cliche by the way? Which one? The, uh, the on drugs.

Like this is something on drugs because I have done that. I think every critic has probably done that at some point. This is like the Berenstein Bears on acid. Or this is like, Beck's O'Dalay on crack cocaine. I feel like everyone has probably done that. I'm going to cop to it. It is one of the top ten cliches that appear in,

not just music writing, but all forms of criticism. Yeah, sometimes you just got to hit that word count. Or like, fuck it. Like, I've been writing this for eight hours. Like, I'm just going to do this. And you know what?

Better luck next time trying to come up with an original thought, you know? Well, it's also the thing of how do you describe something that's like something else, but it's a more extreme version of it. You know, in the on drugs thing, it kind of works perfectly for that. I don't know what else you could do. I mean, I guess you could say, this is like the Berenstein Bears at Burning Man, you know? Like Burning Man could be the new thing. Like, that shows that you're a more extreme version of it. I don't know why keep going to Berenstein Bears here.

I have Berenstein bears on the brain, but I don't know. I'm not going to begrudge someone if they do the on drugs thing in a review, even though it is it's been used a million times because I've been guilty of it, you know, there before the grace of God.

Yeah. So, but yeah, maybe I'm going to throw that out there. Bring up Burning Man. Use Burning Man in that analogy. The Bernstein bears of Burning Man? I do like that. It's got two burns. It's very, it rolls off the tongue very easily.

This record is like, Lord. at Burning Man while shooting heroin. You can mix and match. I'd listen to that. By the way, I think we mentioned this before. The so-and-so on drugs, like I choose now to think of the band,

the war on drugs in that way. Like, it's the war, but the war is on drugs, not like the war against the drugs. It's a much cooler name. That's true. Like you're imagining war, but everyone's on drugs.

But that's basically Vietnam, right? That's what Vietnam was. So you could just call your band Vietnam, which there was a band called Vietnam. There was? That one. There was. Holy shit. This is really remembering some guys.

This is like around the, yeah. Weren't they like a contemporary of like Harlem that band? Yeah, but they were a little, uh, they weren't garage rock really. I think they were, uh, sort of. It's hard to describe. Maybe. They weren't, they weren't rocking though. It was more of like this sort of druggy folk rock.

I reviewed one of their records for Pitchfork. I think it got a 4.9. And I was dragged in some corners of the internet for that. Because I think they're from Texas, the band, Vietnam. They're probably from Texas. Maybe Austin, Texas. They're either from Texas or like Santa Cruz. Yeah, so, but anyway.

I'm looking at this review. You guys got to look at this. It's called an American dream, but like there's a period. in front of the A and the Drain. This is titled like a Kid Cuddy album. Wow. What year was that? This is 2013.

I was going to say 2013. Okay. That's another one. You brought up the Jackson Scott review I wrote, which I do not remember, but I remember the Vietnam review. We're getting sidetrack, though, here. We've got to go back to lonerism. Ten year anniversary, Tame and Paula.

One of the big rock records, really, of the last 20 years. I feel like this is an album where if I were a teenager when it came out that I would think of it the way I think about OK Computer or Siamese dream. It feels like that kind of mind-blowing

record. And I wanted to get your take on this because I feel like in the Tame Impala community, and maybe this is also the Indicast community, that there's this break that exists between lonerism, which

is the peak of early Tame Impala. It's the second record. It comes after Interspeaker. This is like their psychedelic rock era. This is like their Dunian adjacent era. And then you have Currants comes out three years later. It's the third record. That becomes the album that for many more people, in a way, that's like the first Tame Impala album. It's probably like if you heard less I know the better and that was your introduction to the band, you may not even know the first two records. And I find that, that there's the split sometimes if you were a lonerism person,

you might not like currents, and if you love currents, you might not even know what lonerism is. Where do you stand on this divide? Because I have an answer to this, but I'm curious to hear what you have to say. Yeah, I've often wondered, like, what my opinion of lonerism would be,

like, if I had heard it in college. Like, it would definitely, it would definitely be at least as mind-blowing as Uncle's science fiction was at the time. But I would say that, like, I had the pleasure. Was that a sarcastic thing? Or is that a genuine shout-out to Uncle Science Fiction? It's a little bit of both.

I think people who know me know how I feel about Uncle Science Fiction. And also, like, Kevin Parker is exactly the kind of dude who, if he's not been on an Uncle album, like, I think they could have gotten him on one of those, like, 2010 Uncle Albums. Yeah, we should make clear, for those who don't know, it's Uncle, comma, science fiction, not Uncle Science Fiction. It almost sounds like that could be the name of the album. But Uncle, was that James LaValle? James Lavel and DJ Shadow, yeah.

Yeah. That was a big record. I've not listened to that in a long time, but, you know, sophomore year of college, that was the shit. It absolutely was. Really got job by that 90s list. But anyway, I reviewed both lonerism and currents, and currents got a higher score.

And for me, like, lonerism, you're right in that there is a split, the first two Tam-Napala Records. Like I really, like you said, Dunian-adjacent, like I really thought there was a possibility that their career arc would be more like a Woods on steroids. You know, like they're, they

do, they're a band that like satisfies the same, you know, need as was, except like they're more popular. But Currence is definitely the one, like that is a 2010 Indie Kid Starter Pack type album. I think aside

from say Lost in the Dream by the War on Drugs Currence is probably the rock album that has done more to determine the sound of like, you know, late aughts rock. And, you know... Right, that album, and we're also going to be talking about

always later. They're part of that as well, I think, and probably got to throw a MacDemarco record in there as well. Oh, absolutely. Probably two. Yeah. Yeah, but definitely at Tame and Pollock Currance launched a thousand electropop indie records in its wake.

Absolutely. And I think maybe that's why I had mentioned this on Twitter how like Currence isn't out. If not the worst Tame Impala album, it's the one that I always like less than I remember when I play. I think maybe the lack of baggage on slow

rush and inner speaker make me enjoy it more. And you know, there are some songs on Currants like you know, past life and love paranoia, a song I cannot remember a thing about. Those are great songs. Those are great songs, though. I think slow rush is by far their weakest record.

I don't think that's even close, although I like the slow rush. But I don't know. I feel like lonerism is actually less consistent than currants. I feel like the last third of lonerism doesn't stick as well for me. And part of that is because it just opens so strong. I am almost too blown away to listen to the rest of the record. So maybe I'm just not giving enough time to the final third. But I feel like Currence is the more consistent album,

and Lonerism has the higher peaks. And if I had to pick one, I would probably pick Lonerism, but I love Currants. I was going to say that I don't subscribe to the binary. I like both records a lot. It is interesting, though, to think, will they ever return to the Dunian-adjacent sound? And I doubt it because the currents, the post-currents period, it just put them on a whole other plane of popularity.

There is a part of me, though, that would love to hear Kevin Parker write a song as fun and as dumb as elephant again. I don't think Kevin Parker would like that, though. No, he hates that song, but I still love that song. I appreciate it for what it is. It is the greatest wolf mother song of all time. And, I mean, that's the song that got them on rock radio. I mean, that might be the only song that rock radio still plays by them. Although, I guess, I don't know.

Unless I know the better, I feel is like they're like an enormous hit for them. Like, I think that's like kind of a, that's like probably approaching like billions as far, like a billion as far as they're streaming. I think it is a billion or very close. It's over a billion. It's one point one billion. Is that a radio song or a streaming hit though? Does that good? I think it's a radio song.

Okay, definitely in Southern California, I'm sure. That gets played a lot. Like here, my friend is a program director for the big rock station here. And I remember him saying when Currants came out that they weren't playing a lot of that record for whatever reason. Because it just seems like there's so many good radio songs on there. But at any rate, you lean more towards lonerism, though, right? I mean, like, that's your Tame Apollo record. I do.

And I'm, like, thinking to myself, what we really need is a splier. winter podcast called Dunyan adjacent, where we just talked about, like, Vietnam and wooden ships and like all those bands on Mexican summer from back in the day. Yeah, I don't, I mean, Vietnam, the band, which again, the war on drugs, if they are the war on drugs, they could rename themselves Vietnam. They're not as psych rocky as Dunian and Tamapala. I can't believe we're talking about Vietnam this much. We're going to be moving Vietnam units based on this episode.

There's going to be tons of streams because of this conversation. But no, put on lonerism this weekend. That album totally holds up. I really feel like. Yeah, it's so good. And yeah, there's a part of me that would love to hear Kevin Parker return to that kind of record. I doubt that will happen. But, you know, it would be cool if he did.

Because I think he's really good at it. But maybe he realized I'm not going to make a record. in this style as good as loanerism. It's only going to be diminished returns. So I'm just going to make songs that sound like Michael Jackson instead. Yeah. I mean, I can't knock it. Slow rush is good.

You know, it's like it's not one that I listen to all the time. But it's always better than I remember because I always think, wait a minute, did I like this album or not? So it's like real 40 chess strategy with that one. Can I just say quick? This is a quick tangent because we have a, well, we don't have a lot to get to today. but we have a fair amount to get to today. Next week is the week we have a lot to get to.

But I just want to say, I'd like celebrating album anniversaries. I think it's a fun thing. I see people complain about this sometimes, and by people, it really is usually the same kind of person. It's a middle-aged, probably male semi-retired music writer who hates, oh, like, why are all these anniversary pieces, blah, blah, blah, just calm down. lots of new music gets written about every week. I think it's fun to revisit a classic album. There's always younger people who maybe don't know the record, and it's good to reintroduce it to them.

And it's fun to talk about records from the past that we love, as well as talking about new music. You can celebrate the past and live in the present simultaneously. It's not an either-or thing. And in that spirit, I also have to shout out, Automatic for the People, turn 30 years old. Actually, on the day that we're recording, it's the 30th anniversary of the release of that record.

Hugely monumental record to me. There's probably at least one 21-year-old listener of this podcast who has never heard automatic for the people. I'm telling you, put it on. Great record. You can skip the Side Wonder Sleeps tonight, but the rest of the record, really strong. So yeah, I don't know.

I like anniversaries. I like that we do this. I think it's a fun thing, especially on social media. It's probably the least harmful form of conversation that takes place in that sphere. Yeah, I mean, I got to give a shout out to this record as well. Like, I remember getting this on cassette for Hanukkah.

Like, I had only known REM as like the shiny happy people slash losing my religion band. And then I saw the video for Drive where like, I believe it's just Michael Stipe in a black and white video just having like crowd surfed. And I'm thinking, man, this band's dark as fuck, man. Like, this is, by the way, let's also give a shout out to. a couple other albums that were released on October 6th, 1992, a little something called Graved Dancers Union by Soul Asylum, and Our Time in Eden by 10,000 Maniacs.

What a day. Well, it's funny you bring up Grave Dancers Union because we're going to be having a little bit more Soul Asylum talk in our mailbag segment. So it's fortuitous. I did not know Grave Dancers Union, which is definitely an album I bought back in the day. somebody to shove.

I remember hearing that song and being like, this is an awesome song. And that's a good record. There's some good tunes on that album. But we will get to that here in our mailbag. And thank you all, by the way, for writing to us. It's always great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com.

Ian, do you want to read this letter? I do. So this comes to us from Keith from San Clemente, California. Shout to San Clemente. We're San Clemente, California. Is that by you? It is. It's kind of Orange County. I guess I would call it South Orange County. It's, yeah, usually like the first place you see, like, on the way to L.A. You have, like, Camp Pendleton and then nothing and then San Clemente.

Okay. I've been there before. Learn about Southern California. I love it. If we get a letter from, like, Rogers, Minnesota, I can school you on where Rogers is. by the way, if we have any listeners in Rogers, Minnesota, you're not obligated to write us a letter, and I will read it on the air. Why don't you read Keith's letter, Ian? All right, so when you guys reviewed Alex G's new album, I was surprised you never discussed how his song Runner seems to be subconsciously plagiarized from Solis Album's Runaway Train. Ah, from Grave Dancers Union, the big hit from that record.

Indeed, one of many, Black Gold, without a trace. If you've never noticed the similarity, I encourage you to listen to the songs back to back and then imagine Alex G. cringing at the thought of having accidentally ripped off a band as uncool as Soul Asylum. Curious if you guys have noticed other cases of subconscious plagiarism in indie rock.

Another obvious example I can think of as Claro's Bags, which has a melody that is jarringly similar to Taylor Dane's tell it to my heart. Oh, my God. That's a jam. Finally, finally got the Taylor Dane reference in. Yeah. Just an indie rock touchstone, Taylor Dane.

I mean, you're not totally wrong. She might be at this point. Yeah, exactly. Like, did she make the 80s pitchfork list? Any like Taylor Dane albums? Fuck, I don't know. We'll find out. Maybe.

We'll put the intern on that to investigate Taylor Dane. So, anyways, keep up the great work. Yours is the only music theme podcast around that I find interesting enough to keep my overstuffed podcast rotation. Thank you, Keith. Wow. Thanks, Keith, for listening to the show. given us such a good question here.

You know, after I saw this letter, I googled Alex G. Sol Asylum, and I noticed that a lot of people have noted the supposed similarity between Runner and Runaway Train. I think even in his New York Times profile, they make a reference to runaway train. So this is something a lot of people have talked about. I just want to say it quick, I don't think Alex G would be embarrassed to delink to Sol Asylum. He seems like a guy that is all of it. over the map in terms of what he listens to.

And, you know, look, we're sort of in a post-emarrassment world when it comes to music. Like, you're not really supposed to be embarrassed about anything. Although I think there's some things you should be embarrassed about. Just in general. We could all be more embarrassed. We all need a little bit of shame in our life, I think. But in terms of music, you know, we are, we've been conditioned to not judge people and what they listen to. I have to say, I want to hear your thoughts on this.

I didn't really, I don't really think that this holds water personally. I understand it's a mid-tempo acoustic song that has a 90s vibe, and he says run in the chorus in a way that is maybe similar to Dave Perner on runaway train. I don't really feel like the melody is that similar. To me, this is another example, and we see this all the time now in indie music of like a Gen Z artist or a millennial artist, drawing on the 80s and 90s. and playing songs that kind of sound like an 80s or 90s song, but they're not directly ripping it off. It's more about jacking a vibe. Like, there's so much music now from indie singer-songwriters

that sounds like Cheryl Crow's Every Day is a Winding Road. And I don't think there's any one song that is directly ripping it off, but I could say of like a dozen songs that kind of reminds me of that song. I also feel like there's some bands. like where this is their whole act, is jacking someone else's vibe? Like the 1975, their song, It's Not Living If It's Not With You, which is a song I actually like. But whenever I hear it, I always think of Go West's King of Wishful Thinking from the Pretty

Woman soundtrack. And I don't think it really rips that song off. Again, it's just jacking a vibe from the 80s and 90s. To me, that's what Alex G is doing. Do you disagree? Do you think it sounds like Runaway Train? I absolutely think it sounds like runaway train more. Like it's not so much the melody, but the cadence.

Like that part, it's like, and you add run in there and kind of this like 19. I think someone mentioned that it sounded like 1992 MTV Unplugged style music, which look, this reminds me. And I don't think Alex G would be embarrassed about this. It reminds me a little bit of two years ago when soccer mommy had a song called crawling in my skin. People were like, oh, is she ripping off? Lincoln Park. And she's like, yeah, I know.

And it's like not quite a Lincoln Park homage. But, you know, it's not like she's completely unaware of it. But, you know, it's fun. I think it was funny that Keith mentioned Clero's bags as the most prominent example of subconscious theft or subconscious vibe jacking to your parlance. But there's one song in that album, Sophia, which the melody sounds exactly like the Manchester Orchestra song,

The Mistake from a Black Mile to to the surface, and that one sounds exactly like Billy Joel's moving out. So,

like, I have, like, those three songs completely locked in my head. I feel like a lot of people have

kind of jacked the Billy Joel moving out melody, or at least the cadence. Well, you know, it's right there.

It's a garden of musical inspiration that song. So I totally understand why people would be jacking the moving out vibe.

I just want to point out quick. I looked this up. Alex G. was born on February 3rd, 1993. Runaway train was released as a single on June 1st, 1993. So that song entered the wild of MTV four months after Alex G was born. Maybe he was in a crib, in his crib with his parents, and he saw that song, and it just seeped into his consciousness, and it's only coming out now. I mean, it is like someone of our generation, you know, aping a like Seals and Croft song or something. I mean, you know, I mean, like he doesn't have any direct connection to that song generationally. It's just an old song maybe that he heard at the grocery store and it seeped in. But yeah, I don't know, man, Soul Asylum Assents. Maybe we're going to have that here.

Yeah, it's, it's there. I mean, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, for social issues, like, you know, runaway kids, black gold, that was kind of political in some ways. It's about oil, right? It's a, I believe it's about oil. Like a war for, like a war for oil, which, you know, never happened again after 1992. So Solim took care of that. They partner went to the White House. I mean, they invited him to the White House for a runaway train. Yeah, it's, well, you know, for those who don't know or remember, the video for runaway train featured pictures of runaway kids and was there a phone number that you could call if you saw the kid um is this as big of a deal now i remember when we were growing up you know

you'd see the milk cartons with the kid on it that ran away or was missing uh you got the dave perner soul asylum runaway train phenomenon um is anyone today going to make a music video with runaway kids in it and then we can call if we've seen the kid I mean, is this just something that existed because we didn't have the internet at that time? Yeah, this happens on Twitter. People will post like,

hey, this person, like, there does, there, but yeah, there isn't a need for it in the same way that there was in 1993, which is you know, a sign of societal progress. Yes. We've advanced beyond the need to have Dave Perner, you know, and

the other guys in the band. I, I, I, really thought I was going to remember their names. I feel embarrassed. Dave Murphy is the guitar player, I believe. Carl Miller was the bass player. He passed away. And then they've had like a variety of different drummers. That sounds about right.

I feel like Sol Assaylor's a band with like 25 different drummers. Yeah, they have like the core membership and then people come in and out of the band. I just love this idea that in the 90s that Soul Asylum had to fill the void for the internet. Like the internet didn't exist yet. So Soul Asylum had to perform the duties. I think if you went to a Soul Asylum show, you could shout out questions to the band, and then they would have to look it up and answer it for you. You know, because there was no Google.

You couldn't Google it. You had to Soul Asylum it, you know? Dave Perner, where can I find a veterinarian that's close to my house? And then he would like stop playing and he'd have to get a phone book out and find out the nearest local veterinarian. That's how life was in the 90s. This is like a Saturday Night Live skit in 1993 that like you air like really towards the end. Well, no, they'd have to air it now though because there was no internet.

So we didn't even know that that was even a funny thing. If there are any SNL writers listening, I think this is a solid concept. A sketch set in 1993 where people have to shout questions a soul asylum. Because there's no Google yet. Look what happens when there isn't a 1975 record for us to debate. This is Vietnam and Soul Asylum as the Internet. I love this episode. Love it.

Let's get to our list of topics here. The first item on the agenda is the new Always album. It's called Blue Rev. Always, of course, is a dream pop band from Canada. This is their third record. Their first album came out in 2014. That was their self-titled record. Then they followed it up in 2017 with Anthony.

antisocialites. If you can do the math, this is the first always album in five years. They worked with Sean Everett on this record, who has worked on the last few War on Drugs records.

He's also produced the killers, Alabama Shakes, many other people. I reviewed this record for Uprocks. You can check out my review after you're done listening to this episode. So I like the record a lot,

and I'll have more to say about that, But I'm curious to hear what you have to say, Ian. I know you profiled always, and it's not up at the time that we're recording, but it should be up by the... It actually just went up. It just went up. Okay, so I haven't read it yet. I have no idea, really, what you think of this album. What's your take on the new Always record?

Well, before we get into that, I read your profile, and, like, what are you doing with this Diet Mountain Dew slander? I'm, like, drinking one right now. I think we need to liberate people to have Diet Mountain Dew instead of coffee in the morning. morning. Well, okay, so I made a joke in my review where I talked about, and this is something that has come up in other articles about always, that this record is a little heavier than the first two records. They recorded a lot of it live, so it has that live band sound. The guitar's a little louder this time around. And I just made a joke that's saying that this is the heaviest always record, it's like saying that Died Mountain Dew is the healthiest form of toxic waste. Just trying to

point out that like it's still not that heavy, but it's like heavy for an always record. And this is the thing that you pull out of the review. I think this is great that of all the things I wrote in that review, the dyed Mountain Dew quip is the one that's stuck in your craw. Look, I drink soda in the morning too. So I'm not throwing stones at anybody. I just felt like Mountain Dew as a concept is funny. So just working that into any sort of quip, you're already, you know, there are 75% of the time. By the way, that could be another thing, instead of saying on drugs, you could say, this is like the Berenstein Bears on Mountain Dew. On Diet Mountain Dew. Well, yeah, but Diet Mountain Dew, it implies that it's watered down. So,

is there like an ultra Mountain Dew? Like, where they put even more sugar in it? There's Code Red. There is, so I've actually, I've actually used this because I review a lot more metal and, like, new metal adjacent stuff than you do. So I talk about Mountain Dew Code Red, which is like, actively marketed as gamer fuel. By the way, I do think it is like, I do think this is relevant to this album because it's called Blue Rev after what is, I guess, the Canadian version of Sparks or like Four Loco

that won't kill you. It's like this Alco Pop that's like blue like Windex. And when I interviewed Molly from the band, she just talks about like how she's never had a cold one in her entire life. It's the sort of thing that you drink after it's been sitting. in someone's book bag in a locker for the entire day of 11th grade. But, yeah, as far as, like, what I think about this record, you know, having interviewed

Molly Rankin from the band, we talked mostly about fantasy basketball the entire time, which is, I think, really how interviews should go. Like, I would much rather talk about fantasy basketball. And I think, like, most artists would rather talk about fantasy basketball than an album. They spent, like, the past five years of their life making. Is she a Toronto Raptors fan? Huge, huge, huge rap. Makes sense.

Extremely knowledgeable. Like, when I interviewed her on Zoom, it was, her picture was that of Prechise de Chua and Fred Van Fleet. Oh, wow. Yeah, you see that and all of a sudden, like, all of your prepared questions about, like, Sean Everett and, like, guitar tones go out the window. But, you know, with this record, I like the first two always records, and they were kind of a fascinating case study to me, because, you know, they sound, in a way, they're, like, not at all fashionable. You know, it's a kind of indie rock that people have compared to, say, like, camera obscura, or, like, you know, they throw out, like, C-86, Sarah Records, Teenage Fan Club.

And yet, and they're also, like, very, not reclusive, but they're not out there on the internet. They've replaced Japan droids as the one Canadian band on polybinal follows nobody on Twitter. Twitter. But yet they still managed to be super popular in a way that defies any sort of explanation if you're just thinking about narratives or trends or things like that. And, you know, it's the best explanation is that they just make better songs than everybody else. And I could get the sense that they were a band that was maybe seen as like underappreciated in the critical sphere. Back then, you know, they're not the kind of records that knock you on your ass. Maybe the singles do. And so I think there was this expectation leading into this,

especially with Sean Everett being involved, that this was going to be the massive leveling up. Like this was going to write the minor injustice of the past. And this is going to be the one where always is like a top 10 album of the year type band. And on the one hand that makes me more excited about this record. And on the other, I think it maybe set expectations that a record of this sort might not be capable of meeting. And so I find myself still kind of ambivalent. Like I know it's good. I like this record a lot. And I also, unfortunately, and this is just like music critic brain, thinking of it as like, okay, but is it something that is like a top 10 lock? Is this like always, always is his lonerism? And I'm just curious about what you think about this. Well, I think the interesting

thing about always is that they don't strike me as a band that anyone's going to ever say they made the album of the year in the year that the album came out but they might say that 10 years later that it was the best album of that year. I think about their first record which to me is still my favorite. I love all I love all three records but the first one stands out to me maybe because

Archie Merry Me is on that record which is such a classic song. And I just feel like that's a song I can play over and over again. And it feels like a song that came out in the 60s almost to me. It has that kind of timeless vibe to it. I don't think that record was even close to my top 10 when that album came out. I think it was a record that I tended to put on and think this is like really good, but it's not blowing me away. You know, it's just a nice record. Number 39 status. Yeah, something like that. But here we are eight years later. And I don't know how many other albums from 2014 I listen to more than that record. That's a record that I always feel compelled periodically to return to,

especially this time of the year. I feel like they're a great fall band. I think maybe the best band working right now that makes autumn music. And I just think that a lot of their songs are designed to be played a thousand times. where you don't get sick of it. And maybe it's the thousandth time that you hear it and you realize like, wow, I'm not sick of this song yet, that you realize like how good the song is. And that's when you get blown away.

I mean, it's slow release capsule type music. And I think that's true of Blue Reb. I mean, there are two ways to look at it. I agree with you. I don't think that this record is radically different than the first two. It is a little bit noisier. It's a little more muscular. but for the most part, it sounds like always.

And maybe for some people that could be construed as a criticism, for me, I feel like, especially in the long run, that's going to be a strength of this record. Because, and again, this sounds like a weird thing to say because it could be considered as a put-down. But I feel like they're just super focused on writing really good songs, doing what they do. It's not going to be radically different from album to album.

but there's also no one else, I think, writing songs in this style as well as they do. And I appreciate the fact that after five years, they put out this record and it doesn't seem like they took five years to make it. I mean, I'm sure they didn't spend five years working on this record, but it doesn't feel labored over. It doesn't have that sort of flop sweat deal to it sometimes that records like this can have. That diet mountain dew sweat. Well, yeah, just that like we're trying too hard. type thing. Molly made a point to clarify, you know, even though they're working with

Sean Everett, who is like the maestro of like synthy, big glossy Americana music, even though he's Canadian, that they didn't want to make a like, in their words, like a big expensive glossy synth record, which I think is great to point out because you know, an indie band of their ilk on their third record, like that's what you do. You make the big synthi record where it's like, yeah, we've been listening to a lot of pop in the tour van and,

you know, we're just really feel like we're exploring our pop side. Like, they didn't do that. Or we're going to make our pandemic record or we're going to make our big statement record. I mean, one of the things I find really refreshing about always is that they do exist in their own bubble. And they don't seem like they're chasing the discourse or anything. They just do what they do and they do it extremely well. And maybe it's a little unsexy to say, like, this band, they're just, like, really good at craftsmanship, you know, but I think that's what they are.

They're really good at songcraft. And I hear a lot of bands that aren't, you know, or they have, like, a couple good songs, and that's it. Always, always delivers consistently great albums that have just tons of good songs on them. Like, they're the masters of, like, the 10-song 38-minute album. although this album's a little bit longer. 14 songs, 38 minutes. And yeah, if there's a criticism I would make is that you could probably cut a couple

songs from the record. But other than that, I mean, I don't think there's any clunkers on the record. Oh, no, none. But it's just a really good always record. If you love always, you will love this record. It's good, always music. And there's a lot of people trying to make always music who aren't always, and they don't do it as well as they do.

So this is the best example of that. Yeah, I feel like you want to hear some examples. examples of like bands that are trying to do always music, but not as good. Like, I'll give you an invite to like 75% of the shit in my promo pile. All right. Well, let's get to the next item on our agenda this week. And it is not the new Bjork album. It's the newish Bjork album, because this came out at the end of September. We didn't talk about it in our previous episode just because neither one of us had a promo of it. So we had to wait. At least I don't think so. Yeah, I don't, I checked my box, I didn't have it. So we had to wait for the record to come out and listen to it like everyone

else. And I've been listening to this record this week. And I wanted to get your take on this, because my feeling about Bjork in 2022 is that there's been an attempt, I think, to correct some of the wrongs of the 90s with Bjork, where in the 90s, when really she was at her artistic peak, I feel like most people would agree that her best records are post and homogeneic. There might be some stands for some of the early 2000s records, but those two

records came out in like the late 90s, I think are acknowledged as classics of the era. And Bjork in the 90s, I think, was critically acclaimed. A lot of people loved her. She was looked at as a great musician. But there was also an element of how she was

discussed where she was basically reduced to this like quirky weirdo Like a sprite You know Yeah type caricature Who played her on SNL? Someone played her on SNL

Someone played her on SNL I don't know if that was I have no idea I am out of my element here Like Kristen Whig maybe Or someone like would play her On SNL And it was very much like the sort of

Goofy eccentric type caricature with her and I think there's a perception that Bjork hasn't gotten her due so there's been a I think an effort to correct that a bit

and I feel like that seeped a little bit into the conversation about this latest record and I just know for me the thing with Bjork where I think her sweet spot is is if you listen to Post and homogenic what's great about those records is that

on one hand, they're experimental, they're forward thinking, they are eccentric, they are pretty weird, but they're also really immediate records with genuine pop songs. And when Bjork can find that middle ground between art and pop, where it's equal parts both, it's really magical and powerful. And it's something that she did as well as anyone in that period. I feel like her recent work, and this includes the new record Fasora, I think I'm saying that right. Actually, I know I'm probably saying it wrong. But the thing about this record is that I feel like when I listen to it, I admire it the way I admire architecture.

You know, it's very well put together. It's very beautiful in a lot of ways. But, you know, if it's architecture, I don't have a key to the door to get inside. You know, it's not accessible to me. I don't feel like there's enough pop, really, on this record, at least from what I want from Bjork. And that's where it falls a little flat for me. Again, it's wildly ambitious. I think it's impressive on a technical level.

And I do appreciate that Bjork, I don't think, is resting on her laurels. I think she is taking a big swing with this record. But at least for now, maybe I'll feel differently if this seeps into my system over time. I find myself being a little frustrated by it. I don't really love the record as much as I appreciate its existence. Does that square with your response to this at all? I mean, because this album has been well reviewed. A lot of people like it, and I get why it's been well reviewed.

But I don't know. I think it's more impressive than good, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, just right before we started recording, I saw something on Twitter where I think it's the coach of the Atlanta Falcons who said Tom Brady doesn't get enough credit for his sustained success. And, you know, this made me think of like the Bjork conversation as well because, I mean, you're correct in that, you know, Bjork was, you know, someone who was like guaranteed to be in like the top 10 of every year end list that she released a record. And that includes up to Vesperteen as well in 2001. And, you know, I think there was this view of hers, this kind of like, like this forest sprite, you know, just taking off people's projections about Iceland and so forth.

And that it also, it just reminds me of like what we were talking about when like Joni Mitchell had came back to Newport Folk Festival. Like people would say, oh, we've not appreciated Joni Mitchell. We've, you know, she's underrated. only like only because she hasn't been as you know documented as much as bob Dylan and specifically Bob Dylan and I think that's the case with like Bjork and Radiohead um you know there's this like ambient hum that we need to write the wrongs of the 90s by elevating Bjork above specifically radiohead and not like like as if it's like a competition or something like that and you know what like I think those albums of the 90s um like you were

saying they're very forward thinking they are very ambitious very like very original um in a way that i don't think radio head always is and when i listen to them now i'm like damn how would my life be different if you know i was as obsessed with bork as i was with radio head um but you're but nowadays it's like i think that there hasn't been an artist as consistently praised as much as bork but i think that there's also um this sense that she's maybe perhaps like underrated or underappreciated because these new albums, they are indeed art pieces. You know, I think that ever since she started particularly working with ARCA, the producer on her

2010 albums, that the songs are more likely to be like eight minutes and not really following any sort of pop structure. It's more like opera or just like a piece, like an art installation. And, you know, I appreciate them. It's like the kind of album where like I'm very, very, very well aware that I come in the presence of genius in a ways that I probably can't understand. And also this gets to a previous mailback question of like, what do you do with albums that are difficult or like you don't enjoy but you feel you need to get into because of the narrative? Yeah, 10 years ago I probably would be listening to this album more just to get a sense of like what it was like to listen to music and be a commenter in 2022. but now it's just like, yeah, yeah, this shit isn't for me.

I'm going to go listen to Hyperballet again. And, you know, look, this is just me maybe being stuck in the 90s and Bjork leaving me behind. She did make a mention of how, you know, male critics such as myself forsake her for songs about, as she put it, tits, beer, and heroin abuse. You know us. We love Jet. We love Fidlar here on Indycast. Yeah, that quote was pretty funny. I mean, I take that in the spirit in which it was given, I think, where I think her tongue was in cheek probably a little bit, at least in terms of the tits, beer, and heroin thing.

I feel like the tits and beer bands are separate from the heroin bands. I think the heroin bands are focused on heroin, and then you have the tits and beer bands over there. It's a different, you know, we don't want to mix and match that. I will say, I mean, I think there is a danger sometimes in over-praising a record. this for people who aren't familiar with the back catalog and may assume that every record is as difficult as this one. I will say, and I don't think this is being stuck in the 90s, that, like, you know, the, the records that she put out in the 90s, I think are better represent, are better representation of what she is at her best. And again, I think that combination of pop

and art that she was able to accomplish at that time really distinguishes. her and sets her apart from the pack of other 90s artists. And this record, again, as impressive as it is from a technical perspective, again, I feel like it's the equivalent of a movie that just has like incredible special effects and costume design and stage design, but maybe the script isn't very good. I mean, that's my feeling with this record. I feel like it might be an album that you have to spend more time with to have a fully formed take on it.

So I'll put that in as a caveat. But if you're new to Bjork and you find this album to be a little obtuse, I would encourage you to go into the back catalog. Those records might be a better entry point for you. So that's all I'll say about that. Let's get to our final topic here. And this is a feel good story here on Indycast. It's about Steve Lacey.

And for those of you who don't know who Steve Lacey is, he's a 24-year-old singer-songwriter, guitarist. You might know him from a band called The Internet that is associated with Odd Future. Not to be confused with Soul Asylum, who was the Internet in the 1990. Yes, exactly. We referred to Soul Asylum as the Internet in 1992,

but this is a band called the Internet. And, you know, Lacey is someone, I think, that a lot of people know because of who he's collaborated with. He's been on records. by Kendrick Lamar, Solange, Vampire Weekend. But he hasn't really made a name for himself as a solo artist until now. And now he's made it in a big way because he currently has the number one song in America. It's called Bad Habit.

And what might be the most amazing thing about this song is that it actually displaced Harry Styles from the top of the pop charts. His song, as it was, was number one for 15 weeks. which makes it one of the longest running chart toppers of all time. And here comes Steve Lacey, the David to Harry Styles' Goliath, with this song Bad Habit. And I think it's a pretty cool story. I mean, he, I don't know if you've heard the song Bad Habit. I have. Or his record.

It really is in that, you know, I mean, I hope this is probably a lazy comparison, but it is in that Frank Ocean Lane where he's really bringing together different kinds of music. There's a little bit of R&B in there. There's some rock in there. There's some psychedelia in there. It doesn't strike me as a song that would hit number one, which is maybe the coolest thing about this. It seems like a song that might be number one on a critics list.

But I'm a little surprised that this song has taken off the way that it has. and I'm heartened by it. I mean, this is from the New York Times. It's been streamed 20 million times and 40 million airplay audience impressions. I don't know what that means. Well, it's a measurement of a song's popularity on radio stations. So this song has been a big radio hit as well as a streaming hit. What's your take on this?

I mean, this is like a pretty incredible story, isn't it? Yeah, you know, we usually wouldn't talk about like what's the number one song in America, but, you know, it reminds me a little bit of 2020 when, or even maybe even last year when Glass Animals somehow made it to number one. It's just fascinating from a cultural perspective. And yeah, I listen to this song. I would say it's even more incredible than that because Lacey, I feel like, has had like a pretty indie prestigious career up until now.

I mean, I just mentioned like all these artists that he's worked with. Like, he would strike me as a guy that would be a friend. like a side man to like more famous people. And here he is like he's now a genuine pop success himself. Yeah. And also like he's like a super talented really good looking guy as well. So I mean like it seemed like he was sort of born for this just so long as the song was there. And that was like kind of the thing that I had always heard about him.

It's like this guy is massively talented. God, if we could just get him involved with some like songwriters, he goes straight to the top. But also we'd be remiss to not mention that any time I see his song. with the title Bad Habit, I'm inclined to think of the offspring song from Smash, where they just kind of, the music comes out like that, you stupid, dumb shit, goddamn, like the, you know what I'm fucking talking about if you're listening to Andy Cash. I mean, I'm not, I'm not sure how many people out there are going deep on the offspring smash. I don't, I don't know if that's as common of a touchstone as you might think it is.

I love that you, that immediately came to mind for you. By the way, you want to know what else came out on October. 6, 1992, not smash, but the offsprings first album, Ignition. So, big day for us. But when I listen to this song, like, what came up, just tying back to our, like, 2010's indie kid's starter kit pack, this song sounds like the product of it, because they're, like, I don't think this song exists without current. There's a little bit of like that Mac DeMarco kind of slack vocal and guitar to it.

some of the Tyler creators albums where he sings more, some Frank Ocean. I mean, I think that, and I mean this in like a positive way, it just seems like the natural product of the past five years of music. And the fact that it reached number one, I'm just dying to know like the logistics of this, you know, because I don't think it was like a TikTok. Maybe it was a TikTok sensation. It probably was, but it wasn't on TV. There wasn't, it just seemed to happen so organically in a way that

you know, makes me root for the guy, regardless of what I think about the song. Yeah, I mean, there was... It's a good song, though. There was some press about this record when it came out, but like, no more than you would see for any high profile indie release. You know, like, the new always record

has gotten probably as much press as Steve Lacey did in the lead up his current album. Yeah, it really does seem like an organic success story. Again, it speaks to the enduring influence of odd future. I mean, talk about an incubator for, like, huge pop stars. I mean, like, there's just been so much that has come out of that collective. And I don't know if you would have predicted that in 2010.

I mean, they seemed like they would, like, it was like this nihil. group. I mean, that's what was exciting about them. I mean, on the future, I think they were the last sort of like outrage music celebrities. Like people that got famous for just making people angry. Like that, that's a model that seems to have been totally abandoned in the last decade. You know, I can't think of like the last person who got famous just because they were obnoxious and got on people's nerves. Well, I mean, I think we could probably think of it in like the twist. or like the TikTok realm. But as far as music goes, like, I thought, like, their ceiling was like, you know,

maybe they'd be, like, a new, like, Wu-Tang. But, yeah, I mean, I remember someone saying that Tyler the creator, like, back in 2010, it's like, this guy's the next Kurt Cobain. And I thought, like, oh, that's fucking ridiculous. But, yeah, I mean, if you're looking at, like, the before and after of 2010, or at least the end of the, like, animal collective indie rock hegemony, like, that's our future. It is clearly the fault line.

We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So one of the reasons I haven't been able to invest as much time in the York record as I like is that I've been putting out like a lot of, putting out a lot of content this week. The Always piece dropped on Thursday and today there's going to be a piece going up at Stereo gum on the new Will Chef album. He is the former frontman for Ockerville River. We met up one day in L.A. We walked around Hollywood Forever Cemetery and probably talked for the better part of three hours. It was one of the most expansive interviews I've ever done, long transcribed, but very fascinating.

Being able to talk to someone who has survived, you know, the mid-aughts indie peak and has continued to make great music, just a lot of really great insights. A lot of really great insights. site. So this is his first solo record. It's called Nothing Special. And I'm here to tell you, people, it's quite special. It, you know, it's this sort of band that I think we had talked about them on Indycast in the past that like people had kind of taken for granted since their peak of Blacksheet boy and stage names. And this kind of reminds you of everything you liked about Ackerville River, you know, whether it's the big crescendos with horns and guitar solos or just the very expansive kind of talk talk slash astral weeks, ruminative songs. And it brings it all back together in a way that I find to be very emotionally compelling because it's not just about like him trying to leave Ackerville River behind or talk about like his friends who have died or sobriety or L.A.

but just kind of in general about like what it means to transcend you know the angst of your early 20s because he's someone who still gets asked to play like black sheep boy songs and you know that's a song that's a album that's very angry very vengeful um and i find this out to be like very restorative in that regard like how do you move on past the past the image of yourself you've defined um plus you know what if anything it makes you uh want to go back and check out the Ackerville River albums that you may have missed out on. So that's the recommendation I have today. You know, for the longest time, Ackerville River was the band that I was in love with and then I fell out of love with them and I still had a shirt of theirs that I continued to wear after I didn't really care about them anymore

just because I love the shirt so much. So maybe this album will get me back into Will Shoeff and Ackerville River and I can feel good about wearing this shirt again because it's a very nice shirt and good material, good design. It's always a bummer though when you have the shirt that you love, but you don't really love the band anymore,

so you feel like a fraud if you're still wearing it. My recommendation here, it's similar in a way to the Steve Lacey story that we talked about, although it's country music, it's not alt-R-NB, but this is an artist who has come from a world, I think where he was putting out songs online and he gathered a big following and now he has one of the biggest albums in the country

and in a way I feel like he's come out of nowhere. At least he has for me. This record actually came out in the spring and I've only recently gotten into it but it's sort of taken over my world. And that album is called American Heartbreak. It's by a 26-year-old guy named Zach Brian. And this is a,

just a sprawling record. We've had a lot of big records this year, but this might be the most sprawling of all. 34 songs on this record. And you may look at that track list and feel like that's excessive, too many songs, and in a way it is,

because I've had this record for a while, and I'm still absorbing it. There's a lot of material. It's basically like three records of material on one. But I've got to say, this guy is incredibly consistent. The songs, I think, are pretty consistent.

very good to great. I would liken him to, like a Jason Isbell or a Tyler Childers, but a little more lo-fi, a little more down-home, a little rar, a little kind of like rough around the edges, and that's really what I like about it. Definitely in that Americana, acoustic guitar, harmonica, and fiddle type music. But again, he takes that simple framework, and he's able to do a lot of different things with it. And it's been fascinating to see him blow up this year. I was sad. He played here in Minneapolis last weekend,

and I wasn't able to go to the show because I was coming home from a family event. I couldn't get back in time. He played an outdoor venue fit 4,000 people, and the show was sold out. I assume that when he comes to town next time, he'll be playing a local arena. It seems like his popularity.

is just exploding. And he is someone, too, that I think could definitely make inroads in the indie world, even though I haven't really heard much conversation in indie circles about this record yet. But I really feel like he's one of those people that can really slot into different music scenes really well. Because it is a country record, but it is more of like a, again, like a rough hewn singer-songwriter record. And I think it's like one of the best examples of that that I've heard in a while. So again, American Heartbreak. Zach Bryan, check out that record. If you're into that kind of singer-songwriter,

harmonica and acoustic music, it's going to hit you right where you live. Can I quote the Tennessean because they wrote that the album ranges from demo-like ruminations to full-fledged heart rock anthems as well as an untamed restlessness and blurry-eyed angst. See? I'm sold. Yeah, exactly. Come on. This is definitely my kind of record. I think you would like some of it too, Ian, for sure. Yes. You know what? Just reading, I'm looking at the Wikipedia page, and he calls it an effort at trying to explain what a 26-year-old man in America is like. There's love, loss, revelry, resentment, forgiveness. This strikes me just like superficially as maybe the album I would like center my entire

identity around when I was living in Georgia at the age of 26. Yes. Yes, exactly. Definitely drinking a beer on the back porch type music. It really fits the bill. with that. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.