Indiecast - Andre 3000's Flute Album, Boygenius' Huge 2023 + The Smile Returns

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

Steven and Ian took a victory lap at the start of today's episode upon the news that Air is reuniting for a Moon Safari tour next year, right after they talked up the album in last week's Best Of 1998 episode. Can they take credit for actualizing this? Probably not. But they did anyway.From there, they talk about one of the weirdest album release days of 2023. First, you have the new Andre 3000 flute album, New Blue Sun (6:25). Second, you have Dolly Parton's 141-minute"rock" album, Rockstar (25:49). Steven and Ian didn't get the chance to hear these albums before recording, which is just as well. It might be better to just imagine what they sound like. After that, they discussed the apparent anointment of Boygenius by the entertainment business — they were just on Saturday Night Live and then they garnered more Grammy nominations (seven) than Taylor Swift. Is it safe to call them the biggest act in indie music? (35:00) In the mailbag, a listener asks about the new album announcement for The Smile and what this means for the future of Radiohead (48:06).In Recommendation Corner (56:01), Ian shouts out the new book about '90s music by Rob Harvilla and Steven recommends the great new live album by MJ Lenderman.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 164 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about the Andre 3,000 flute album, the Dolly Parton Rock album, and the official anointing of Boy Genius by the Entertainment Industry. What a lineup that is.

My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He helped me bring back air from the dead, Ian Cohen Ian, how are you? Yeah, we are just beginning to scratch the surface of our powers. I'm trying to get

a Sunday review for Uncle Science fiction happening. Maybe if we... Oh, my God. Maybe if we like try to like imagine Warner music artists winning Grammys,

we can leverage that for our first on location episode when Air plays Vienna or something like that. I like that you're publicly campaigning for the Uncle

Science fiction Sunday review. I know Jeremy Larson's listening to this episode. There's going to be picketers outside of his house in a few weeks if there's not a science fiction review. It's going to be Indycast Nation rising up. They want their 3,000 words on science fiction. Let's make it happen. Justice for Drums of Death Part 2. Just to flesh out what I was referring to by bringing air back from the dead. You may remember last week we talked about our favorite albums of 1998. Ian and I each picked five records. One of the repeats on our list was Airs Moon Safari. I believe it was number five on your list. I think it was five or four, one of those. It was towards the end. It was four

or five on your list. It was number one on my list. We do that episode. A few days later, it's announced that Air, the two guys in Air, who have publicly feuded in recent years, I think one of the guys did an interview where he said he didn't like the other guy and they hadn't spoken in a long time. Well, here we are. They announced a moon safari tour in Europe. They're doing, I think, seven or eight dates. He mentioned Vienna being one of them. They decide to play moon safari after our show. Now, of course, this tour was in the works. Or was it? I don't know. We don't know that. You think it came together in like a weekend? They're like, oh, my God. Like someone translated our podcast into French and they played it for the air guys and they all of a sudden decided to bury the hatchet and say,

we will do our first tour in seven years and we will play Moon Safari from front to back because it was one of the albums that Stephen and Ian had on their list in this episode. Do you think that was the scenario here? I mean, look, France has a Midwest too. So, you know, whatever France is answered to, I don't know. Columbus, Ohio or any of our other famous Indycast towns are, you know, they feel that type of way. You know, I'm just stoked because you mentioned that they could not stand each other. And I think that's always so much more interesting when that dynamic happens in a band where the music is just super chill. You can just imagine them going at it, like with Nigel Godrich breaking it up during the talky-walky sessions about like stereo panning or this flute is a little too high in the mix.

Yeah, do you think, like, between takes of sexy boy, they were doing, like, chin-ups and push-ups and, you know, just getting jacked up. And then they sit behind, you know, like, the keyboards and they get, like, the cool bass sounds and they're all just chill. Like, that could be the case. You know, we are all complex creatures. We have dark and happy sides to us. Could definitely be true of air. Yeah. Except the air looks exactly like you think they would.

Yeah, they do. They're very air-looking, very air-looking people. I've never seen air-live, have you? You know, I don't remember, I had trouble remembering if they were actually a live performing act in their heyday. And when I looked at Spotify just to see if, you know, any of their albums put up the kind of numbers that Air Moon Safari did. And, you know, talkie-walky, it's doing decent numbers. But there's just like so much live stuff. They've made like a lot of albums that aren't actually studio albums.

you'll see like sexy boy live at KCRW I don't know what that looks like I don't know how they pull it off whether it's just like kind of a daft punk situation where it's two people standing behind like keyboards or something like that but yeah they have a band

they have a band I actually have a bootleg somewhere of air in 1998 so it would have been touring for Moon Safari and it sounds like Pink Floyd Wow. That's the shorthand. It just gets, they lean into that side of what they do live. And it's cool.

Like, it actually sounded like, I want to see this band live. So hopefully the Europeans come out for the Moon Safari tour, do some American dates. I don't know if they'll come to Minneapolis. They'll probably go to San Diego. They will absolutely not come to San Diego. They'll go to, they'll do the L.A. They'll go to L.A. Two dates in L.A.

Two dates in New York. made like two in Chicago kind of doing the Walkman the kind of tour they did this year where it's just L.A., New York, Chicago. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Maybe San Francisco go there again. Is San Diego the con of France? No, I mean is, wait, did I say that right? Is I think so? Or is, yeah, like, because you were talking about the Midwest of France. I was trying to think of what San Diego would be. Well, I mean, I think you're equating Comic-Con to Sundance or like, or the Khan's film, sorry, you're like equating Comic-Con to the Cannes Film Festival, which I think is fucking hilarious. And, well, and just the beautiful weather. Oh, that too.

I'm just thinking, because Khan is like this, you know, I believe that's in the south of France. Very lovely there. So, anyway, if we have any listeners in France or in San Diego, if you could straighten this out for us, that would be fantastic. Another thing we talked about last week in our 1998 episode was the classic outcast record Equamini, which was your number one album of 1998. That's a record I love. I didn't put it on my list because, as I said, I feel like that's one of those classics from 98 that I've heard so many times

that I recognize the brilliance, but it's not necessarily a record I'm going to pop on or be excited to put on necessarily. Well, I'm going to take some credit for actualization there as well because after we talked about Outcast, maybe a week or so later, I guess that was on Wednesday or Thursday of this week, that dropped the news about... Yeah, that was Wednesday. It was Wednesday. Andre 3,000, half of Outcast is back with his first solo record, but it's not a rap record.

It's an 87-minute flute album. and I had to look up the album title because everyone just refers to this as Andre 3000's flute album. That should have been the album title, but it's actually called New Blue Sun. And it is out today as this podcast is being posted. So you and I haven't heard this record yet. We can only imagine what it sounds like.

I should mention, too, that there's a box set out today. It's called the Complete Budaqqqqqa, 1978. it's about Bob Dylan's live album from 1979, Bob Dylan at Buda Khan, an infamous album. And part of the reason why it's infamous is that there's a ton of flute on it. Like, Bob Dylan in 1978, had a flute player in his band. So we have two big flute albums out today. This is the wildest release day of the year. Yeah.

This is like the wackiest release day of the year. We're going to talk about Dolly Parton's rock album here in a minute. But I just have to say, you know, we haven't heard this record. We have no idea if it's good. There have been tweets out there from people who have heard it, including a friend of the podcast, Jeff Weiss. He did a tweet. I don't have it up.

But he did one of those very Jeff Weiss type descriptions where he said words to the effect of, you know, this album was like listening to like John Coltrane and Robbie Shankar on a, you know, on mushrooms on top of a mountain or something like that. He gave it a 10 out of 10. So he was ecstatic about this record. You know, I feel like an album like this, you know, we see these from time to time. You know, I call them blank check records,

like where an artist has so much credibility or success that they can just make any kind of record that they want. And, you know, in the short term, sometimes there's a lot of confusion about this kind of record. maybe these records don't get good reviews. They often don't sell very well. But I feel like in the long run, there's like no downside to making a record like this.

Like this Andre 3000 flute record, whether it's good or terrible, in 10 years, people are going to be writing think pieces about how this is a worthy album. Like people are going to be excited to revisit this record, to think about it, to write about it. because the blank check record,

the more perverse it is, the more interesting it is to think about in retrospect. So we haven't heard this record yet. In a way, I feel like maybe we're better off not hearing it. It may just be better to talk about it on this podcast and actually listen to it. But I'm really excited about it. I'm glad he did this and not just put out a rap record

because even if that had been really good, I don't think it would be as interesting as this flute opus that he has dropped on us. Yeah, I mean, because Big Boy dropped, like, what was seen as, like, a top-tier big boy solo album in 2010, and all you hear about nowadays is how overrated it was. And, you know, this is, we're at an interesting point in the Outcast discourse, because just recently we had the 20th anniversary of Speakerbox, The Love Below,

which was, most people acknowledge, like, yeah, it's kind of bullshit. it, but it was like the number one Pa's and Jop album with 2003. It beat out the white stripes, and people were just so fucking excited to hear Andre 3000 not rap back then.

Yeah, hey, yeah, still a song you hear on the radio. Oh, absolutely. And that boy, that song... Pretty frequently. Yeah, that song's doing a lot of work for that album because otherwise, like, roses,

not just like the worst outcast song ever made, but one, like, just up there with like, what was it? holla back girl or like she likes me for me hey leonardo is one of the songs like i will absolutely oh wow yeah it's you're putting it in it's fucking terrible you're putting it with hey leonardo you're putting it that high on the shit list i am because al cash should fucking know better you know what i'm

saying like and also like this is just the indicator of like how um i don't know there's always a true like despite all the changes that have happened in like music discourse over the past 20 years. Like Prince or like slightly left to center R&B is still the true north. I mean, the love below is basically the 2003 version of like Childish Gambino's because the internet and I guess Redbone is. Wow, you are, you are. See, I am not as negative on that as you are. I think there are other songs on that record that I like quite a bit. Like that song prototype. I don't know if you remember that one of the better ones. That, that song I feel like is tame and Pala, you know, a few years before they went in that direction with currents.

You know, like, it feels like a precursor to that where it's like this psychedelic soul-type ballad. I like that song a lot. I can't really think of other songs on that record at this point. You know, because there is a lot of filler on the love below. But, yeah, you're right. I mean, I think that the high points for me made it worth, you know, the thing. But I don't know. Like, it was your feeling in the moment that people didn't like it?

Because I feel like people loved it when it came out. And it's only in retrospect that people are saying that it's overrated. Yeah, I mean, I lived in Georgia at the time. And, you know, people like, it was like, yeah, we can listen to the way you move. You can listen to, hey, yeah. The singles are great. But then, I mean, I was just amongst people who, like, you know, were diehard outcast people. And they were kind of disappointed by this.

And I know. this is like kind of off topic, but, you know, when I think about speakerbox love below, what nobody ever, ever, ever talks about is Idol Wild, which is like, people think about like speakerbox The Love Below is like the album that like broke out cast up, but they made another one and Idle Wild like might be the most memory hold album of the 21st century. Well, and there was a movie. Yes, too, there was a fucking movie. It was, yeah, that's like them going full prints.

It's like that is. Under the Cherry Moon, yeah. Yeah, they're under the Cherry Moon. And I think it even has a similar, like, period piece thing. Like, isn't it set in the 30s or something like that? Yeah, there's a lot of Cab Callaway going on there. Like, but I think this just kind of sets it up where, you know, Andre 3000 releasing a flute album. He's like kind of getting Bill Murray with it these days where he's just this like presence.

And people are just kind of cheering him on rather than like evaluating him for his actual work. Because, you know, I saw it mention today, like, just with the interviews that he's done with, like, GQ and some other folks and, you know, even, like, the prominent jazz critics who have heard this album. It's just, like, a way for us to congratulate Andre 3000 for his life direction. Because if he did put out a rap album, and he, look, the two most notable guest appearances he's done, one on Drake's Take Care, the other on Frank Blonde's, Frank Ocean's Blonde. I mean, they were great. I don't know if I'd want to hear an entire album of it. And he doesn't either. And so, you know, I applaud him for, like, really committing to the bit.

And yeah, absolutely, in 10 years, people will look at this as a fascinating curio of the times, more so than I think, you know, an actual rap album. But, I mean, the blank check album, I love this concept of it because I think it's so rare where we get one that is this far removed from an artist's. peak. I don't know if you remember the 2014 reunion shows. The Outcast did. I saw it at Coachella. Oh, yeah. So fucking depressing. Andre did not want to be there at all. It was so obvious. People say that. I saw that tour and I wasn't depressed by it. Maybe because I was so happy to see them live. Like, that was just one of those tours I thought I would never get to see. so I didn't care if he didn't want to be there. It was like, I'm loving these songs.

So, I don't know. It's kind of like when people say that the 2010 pavement reunion tour wasn't any good. Like, I thought that tour was great. I didn't see them at Pitchfork. That's a notoriously bad show, but like the show I saw was really good. This more recent pavement reunion tour, I think, was better. But, you know, 2010, I think, was still pretty good. Yeah, the Blank Check thing, which by the way, I had, you know, I said, well, I call it the blank check album.

I should tip my cap to the Blank Check podcast. I mean, they do this thing with films. There's directors who have like blank checks to do what they want. I think that was the original concept of their pod. I think, you know, they'd move beyond that since then. But yeah, like the Blank Check album, yeah, you're right. I mean, we are far away from certainly Outcast Peak. I mean, we're 20 years removed from it.

Yeah, I will say. for Andre, I think he's smart in the sense that when you have people asking you to do something, they are never satisfied when you actually do it. I was just thinking about,

and this seems so distant now, but there was a time when people were begging Justin Timberlake to make another album. You know, like there was a long gap after future sex love sounds. And there was a thing on the internet, people don't remember

this, but like people would record videos begging Justin Timberlake for another record. I do not remember this. You are absolutely right. This was a thing. If you, and if you look, if you Google this, I don't know if it's been buried, you know, maybe these publications don't exist anymore, but there were articles about, oh, wouldn't it be great if Justin Timberlake made another record? And this is when he was making all these movies. He's in the social network. And that's a very critically acclaimed thing. Just like the period when he could do no wrong is fascinating to look back on, because he's in a totally different place now in terms of his image. I mean, he is, like, his name is mud basically now.

But in the late aughts in early 2010s, that guy was the shit. And then he does the 2020 experience. And people are like, oh, okay, this is okay. Then he does another 2020 experience album. And they're like, okay, that's enough. And ever since then, it's been a downward trajectory for him. Not saying that would happen to Andre 3000 if he made a rap record, but there is something about burnishing the mystique.

of his career as a rapper to just kind of parcel out little cameos here and there, but not do a full-fledged record. I mean, it's possible that this flute album is amazing. Yes. Like we could be, you know, like you and I, like we're recording this episode now, but as this episode is posted, you and I could be an ecstasy on Friday listening to the Andre 3000 flute record. That is a possibility.

So. I'm going to hit up Jeff Weiss, make the trip to L.A. You know, it's been a while since him and I got in the kind of zone where we could appreciate that kind of record. But, yeah, I mean, the Blank Check record, though, like, again, an album that someone is allowed to make a more adventurous type record because they're so successful. And maybe in the moment, it's looked at as, like, a weird failure. But then later on gets looked at as a classic. I think maybe the most famous example of this kind of album. is Paul's Boutique by the Beastie Boys,

which it's weird to think about this now because Paul's Boutique is this canonical record. And people don't remember that this album was not successful when it came out and that it was such a departure from the first Beastie Boys record, licensed the ill. I mean, it was like they decided to become artists

all of a sudden after doing this like Frat Boy record. And I say that as someone who loves License Boy, the ill. It's probably still my favorite Beastie Boys album. But that's like the best example. That's like the best Andre 3,000 flute album scenario that we could have, that this could be the Paul's boutique of flute albums. You know, we don't know. We haven't heard it. It could be that. Another example I thought of more recent is congratulations by MGMT, which is a record I love to talk about. I always bring this album up. If I ever did write a 33 and a third book,

which I probably wouldn't, because I don't think they pay you anything to write those books from what I've heard. But if I were to write a book about, like a 33 and a third book, I'd want to do it on congratulations. I think that's such a fascinating record. It's like Paul's boutique

in that it takes this very poppy, college-oriented group. It takes them in a much more sort of experimental psychedelic direction. Congratulations, isn't as well regarded as Paul's boutique. I think it should be. I love that record. But I don't know.

Those are like two kind of blank check records for me. And then you have, you know, like Lulu, I guess, from around that same time, Metallica and Lou Reed. Metallica, because they've sold a bazillion records, they get to release this experimental, dissonant, inaccessible record, you know, with Lou Reed on his last. legs, you know, talking about, well, I don't even want to quote the lyrics from that album. They're pretty insane. But, you know, that album, because of Metallica, it ends up in Target stores across America, which is like a very subversive thing.

I think Metallica still hasn't got enough credit for that. What comes to mind for you for playing Czech records? When you mentioned, like, Paul's Boutique and congratulations, like, I think those are, you know, part of the discussion, but they're still very, like, kind of. of song-oriented work, so they make kind of sense. I'm thinking of like the albums that just completely rip up the rulebook. You know, if I'm going to get in my classic rock mode, of course, like Neil Young's trans, I think is an example of that. The Secret Life of Plants, the Stevie Wonder album, that I think is probably the best like one-to-one comparison for what to

expect here. Yeah, and that might, that's an even better example than Paul's Boutique, I think, because that is a truly perverse record. There's some beautiful music on there. But yeah, there's like a lot of instrumentals on there. And it's also an album about plants. Yeah. It's like a soundtrack, right? Yeah.

To this film about The Secret Life of Plants. Coming after songs in the Key of Life, one of the most famous albums made by anybody in the last 50 years. Stevie's like, I'm going to make an album about plants now after that. Yeah. And really it did kind of trans, like, You sometimes wonder with certain artists like, you know, like Prince or Outcast or, you know, Kendrick Lamar, like, people who are just like every single thing they do as an event. And you wonder, like, where, you know, when's it kind of, when's that imperial phase going to end?

And they usually do it for you. I also think this didn't come to me right now, like when we were doing the outline. But since you mentioned, like, Paul's Boutique and congratulations, I think another album that kind of similarly like flipped the script entirely on an artist is. is 808 and Heartbreak. Oh, yeah. I think that's another, like, I remember what it was like to hear it then. But, you know, these are all, like,

kind of legendary examples. There's also his Christian rock, or his Christian rap albums, too. Like, Jesus is king, I guess, would be in the other direction from 808s and heartbreak. Yeah, besides that, of course, like metal machine music.

And my favorite ones of these are, like, of course, because I'm in the business of remembering some guys, is the blank check albums from bands who have absolutely no right to do so. Like, I reviewed a blank, I reviewed a Black Rebel Motorcycle Club Ambien album in 2008. You know, I honestly can't believe I got paid to do that. I think I gave it like a 0.03 because it was like a pun on the title. But if we're talking like the, my favorite one of these blank check albums, like in terms of distance from a

band's peak and the difference between the music they're famous for and the music that was actually on this record. I was hesitant to even put this in the outline because I just wanted to see like you're in, you know, in the moment reaction to remembering this. But if you're any, if you're somebody who's like followed me over the years, you know how much I love to talk about. Paul Banks, everybody on my dick like they're supposed to be. The Paul Banks from Interpol rap album.

And this, this has happened. It's real. Look it up. And the funniest part about this is that he actually made another rap album as Banks and Steel with Arisa, who has a lot of blank check albums in his discography. Incredible. Was that rap album right after Turn on the Bright Lights? Oh, no, absolutely not. This was like 2012.

Okay. If it was right after Turn on the Bright Lights, I'd be like, okay, that's a total blank check album. I don't know. It seems like a little too late. That's my only complaint. But otherwise, that is a totally perverse thing. And just the idea that Paul Banks thought, I do this post-punk thing, I'm wearing suits on stage. What have people heard a rap record for me?

Like, is this going to be the thing that people want for me? Are they going to appreciate this? But that's the thing about a blank check record. You don't think about what people want. You think about what you want. It's a self-indulgent exercise. And that's what's great about it. So, you know, Andre 3,000, hats off to you.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what else to say. We haven't heard the record yet. I hope. Titles are excellent. Titles are excellent. Very Sufyan. It's like Sufian 2005, but also like Boni Vair,

circa, you know, 22 a million. It's a beautiful thing. Well, speaking of self-indulgent exercises, there's the new Dolly Parton rock album. out today. It's called Rockstar. One word, Rockstar, which I tweeted about this this week. This is one of my pet peeves right now. People who spell Rockstar as one word, as opposed to two words. Like, this has become the common spelling of Rockstar now, and I guess it's because of the energy drink. There's like the video game company. There's Post Malone, of course. Post Malone. People online were

talking about how it goes back to Nickelback. Nickelback has the song Rockstar, where it's one word and not two. And I feel like I've just lost this battle. I've been fighting on the front lines to make Rockstar two words again, not one word. But now you have Dolly Parton coming in, calling it one word. I think it's over now.

Dolly is, she's ruled, and now Rockstar is one word. This album is 141. minutes long. I'm not joking. It is literally 141 minutes long. There are a total of 30 songs on this record. And it's Dolly Parton just covering a number of rock classics.

You've got every breath you take by the police. That includes a cameo from Sting. You got Open Arms by Journey, Steve Perry. I thought it was the Creed song. Fuck. That's with arms wide open. A man can dream. As long as I can see the light, CCR,

John Fogarty's on that song, you get the idea. There's like a lot of rock classics, and a lot of times the original artists are appearing with Dolly on this record. There was the Let It Be cover that, like, Paul and Ringo are on. Like, those guys don't give a fuck right now. Those guys are just doing everything.

You know, like that... Did you see that video for the Beatles song? that just came out now and then. I did not. There's a music video that Peter Jackson directed. And I can't believe Peter Jackson directed this. It looks like something that, like, you would see on a college TV station. Because it's like Paul and Ringo in present day, and then they, like, put images of George and John with them, like, from...

I think they're both, like, in their magical mystery tour guys, which is, like, an interesting. choice. I don't know why that was the era. I want to see George Harrison like cloud nine. I got my mindset. Oh my God. Like yeah. He's got the sunglasses. His hair's blown back and he's wearing this like colorful shirt. Yeah, that is that is the coolest anyone's ever looked. George Harrison on the cover of cloud nine. Um, there was a just going down this track list. She also covers, uh, What's Up by Four Non Blondes, which if we're going to talk about the Hay Leonardo ring of terrible songs, what's up? You got to put that in there. That is a horrible song. You can't have a good singer do that song. Dolly's going to ruin it with like good vocals. Well, Linda Perry from Four Non Blondes

appears on that song. So, you know, they're singing together. You know, this was an album. I was afraid this was going to be a record that is clearly terrible but gets great reviews because it's Dolly Parton and everyone loves Dolly. No one wants to give Dolly a bad score.

Well, I want on Metacritic and there's three reviews on there and there's one 100 score and there's two 60 scores. So two kind of middling reviews, one rave. The rave comes from Classic Rock Magazine and

this is the blurb from classic rock magazine. And hats off to them, because I think that this is probably the fairest review that you could give this record. They called it a monumentally hideous yet strangely glorious album. I think that probably works. It's their version of like when Pitchfork reviewed Bob Robert Pollard's relaxation of the asshole, where it's like it's either a tent or a zero, and it's definitely not a zero. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Dolly. she made this record because she was inducted in the rock and roll hall of fame and

she apparently felt bad about that because she doesn't think of herself as a rock musician. So she's like, I'm going to make a rock record to justify my induction into the rock and roll hall of fame. Not that anyone wanted that. No one was asking for that. In a way, this is her blank check record, I guess. This is like a record no one wants, but she's going to give it to you anyway. I made this joke before, but I would like to play the Andre 3000 album at the same time as the Dolly Parton album, like Zyrika style.

You know, that Flaming Lips album. Play these albums at the same time and see if I get a Jethro Tull album. Yeah, I was about to say, is Ian Anderson on this at all? Is Ian Anderson on the Dolly record? Yeah. Is he alive? He's alive. I don't know. I think he's alive.

I interviewed him a long time ago when I was in my daily newspaper days. Nice. And I think he was nice. I honestly can't remember. No Ian Anderson on here. That's rock star part too. Yeah. The lost tapes.

Can you imagine like Dolly Parton makes a rock album that's like two and a half hours long and you're not on it? Like how offended would you be? it's like what like you got Steve Perry on here and not me like is Mick Jagger is he like pissed off at Dolly because I don't think he's on this record I think Keith Richards is on it Keith Richards I think so look no she does satisfaction but it's with pink and Brandy Carlisle okay which that sounds incredible yeah I can't get no satisfaction

dolly pink and Randy Carlisle how can that not be good stairway to heaven with Lizzo? What? Yeah. The flute solo. I mean, the flute reigns supreme. It's actually kind of,

I mean, I really wish they got like, you know, Metro booming or whoever did Futures mask off. Like there was a time when, between that and like Playboy Cardi, like flutes were a big deal in hip hop. But yeah,

the stairway to heaven with Lizzo. Also, I like the fact that like Lizzo and Stephen Tyler are here, you know, various states of cancellation. You know, I don't think anyone's going to, like, make hay of that. But, yeah, I think the big, the thing I get the most out of this album is learning who and who is not still alive in classic rock. Like, I, for some reason, thought John Fogarty was dead.

Oh. I don't know. I don't know why I thought this. What's your tongue? Yeah, I don't want to act. I don't want to actualize that. He's chugling, man. I mean, going back to Stephen Tyler.

I mean, hasn't he been semi-cancled for like 30 years? I mean, I feel like he's, you know, he's like the guy that, you know, like how Teddy Roosevelt got shot and he had the bullet lodged in his chest for like years. He just survived. That's like Stephen Tyler with cancelization. Like you, the bullet is in his body, but he just keeps going forward. Yeah, but I think we're at our point where we see new stuff. pop up and yeah just any time you see Stephen Tyler's face like these days it's like you know multiple allegations have come forth but you know like Neil Girald though I also thought he was dead for

some reason Kevin Cronin from ario speed wagon Artemis Pyle like this is this is like remembering some guys but with like a much more profound impact it's like oh I remember you you're still alive good for you you know yeah exactly you know I like that you actually had a thought either way about Neil Giroldo being alive. Yeah, I know, right. I never would have popped in my brain one way or the other. I think he recently got inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with Pat Benatar, his long-time wife. Like, a lot of these artists have, like, done something recently, and I'm like, there's, like,

these little nuggets of me passively receiving information of their existence. And, you know, I wasn't able to sift out whether it's like they were introduced into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or they died. Yeah, it's one of those two. or maybe they got inducted after they died. Yes. Or they died after they got inducted. One of those four scenarios is definitely true.

Let's pivot here to the Grammys, which we love talking about the Grammys. But there's some things in our world that are worth talking about, I think, with the Grammys. First of all, you and I, we always love looking at the Rock and alternative categories. Because it's always an adventure to see what the Grammys nominated. I got to say this year is like relatively credible for the Grammys. I feel like every year, other than this one, you look at the Grammy nominations in the rock category, and there's always a band with a name like No Exit or Tiger's Paw or, you know what I mean? Or like, you know, like, no way enter or, you know, something like that, like some generic rock band,

name that you've never heard of. And then you, you Google them and you find out that, oh, they have all of these, like, radio hits, you know, like, like program directors from radio stations across the country, love this band, but they've never been written about, they never get talked about. There's no bands like that this year. There's no nominations. Like, you look at the rock song category. You got Boy Genius, Foo Fighters, Olivia Rodriguez, Queens of the Stone Age, and the Rolling Stones, okay, all, you know, heavy hitters. Names, yeah. Names, rock album.

Kind of the same. You got Food Fighters again, Metallica, Paramoire, Queens. You got Greta Van Fleet in there, of course. They had a record called Starcatcher. I don't remember hearing about that. I do remember it existing. Yeah. Like, it's very, it's real, it's not made up.

That's about as far as I could go. And, you know, it's sort of like Greta Van Fleet alongside the Grammys. Like, I hate that they've become like acceptable. and like they need to like really just be themselves i i want whatever i cannot believe i cannot remember the first greta van fleet album title but like i i wanted them to go even further like i don't want respectability at all out of them well they won a grammy for that record i believe or maybe it was their ep because they've already won grommies uh so they and i mean this was the joke i had online talking about how greta van fleet has i believe won more grammies than led zeppelin

has. So that means, obviously, that Greta Van Fleet is better than Led Zeppelin. I think it's been proven by the Grammys that that's true. We also got to give a shout-out to Black Pumas. Oh, yeah. They scored a nomination in the rock performance category. This is a band that I can't remember ever listening to. I think they only exist to be nominated for Grammys. But they're very good at it. They're very good at being nominated for Grammys. Yeah, there's them. There is H-E-R, her. There's like this subcategory. One of our friends of the pod,

fuck, what's the guy's name? Jason Lipschitz, he called John Battiste, Tim, which I think is fantastic. He's like the, he is like the most Grammy of the Grammy nominees, and we also got to put Warren Treaty in there. I don't know if you're familiar with this act, but boy, that is like a Grammy lock for the next 20 years. Well, and also, again,

foo fighters. I wonder how many nominations foo fighters have over the course of their career because they're all over these categories. They're in the rock performance. They're in rock album. Grammas can't get enough of Dave Grohl, which we all know. Holy shit.

I want you to guess. No way this, this can't fucking be true. How many, do you want to know, I want you to get, oh wait a minute, this is total awards, not total Grammys. Yeah, here it is.

How many do you think? I want you to guess. I have this number up. How many nominations for Food Fighters? Yeah, how many nominations and wins? Oh, and wins? Yeah. I'm going to go high.

I'm going to say like 50 nominations. And I'll say 23 wins. All right, so percentage-wise, you're not that far off. They have 32 nominations and 15 wins. So they're almost like 50-50. Wow. 15 Grammys for the Food Fighters. And by the way, they were three for three in 2022.

Wow. Medicine at midnight. In the alternative categories, you've got a lot of always. You got a lot of Arctic monkeys. Lana Del Rey. I mean, pretty good. Paramore pops up here. I think Paramore and Boy Genius are in the rock category and the alternative category.

And it's interesting to me because, like, I mean, the fact that there's like an alternative category is funny by itself. But like, I just take that to mean, like, less popular rock. Yeah. But, like, boy, genius, I guess, is in that zone now where they just bridge the gap between popular rock and less popular rock. Yeah, I mean, I guess that means they are the biggest indie, like, the biggest thing that, like, kind of resembles indie rock that can still be called indie rock. Right. They've won 2023. It's their year. I mean, they were on SNL as well.

Like actually acting in the bits. Oh, my God. That Troy Savon sketch? My God. I don't think I've cringed that hard. It's so bad. It's so bad. It reminded me of like, you know, like when you go to those high school assemblies and there would be like maybe a little sketch that like the guys on the football team would perform and there maybe be some like some of the cool teachers would be in it. and like

people would scream because they were like popular but like everyone else hated it that's what that sketch reminded it's like man I know this is like an old complaint but SNL sucks man SNL is so bad I've defended SNL over the years

I grew up on SNL it's so bad though like any clip you see of it now it's the most obvious jokes it's just oh look this is a thing from the internet that let's just put it on this show. Oh, isn't it funny that we've acknowledged this meme?

You know, like, that's the whole thing that they do now. It's so lame. But yeah, you're right about Boy Genius. Boy Genius, by the way, seven nominations for Grammys. That's more than Taylor Swift this year. And they're nominated in the record of the year category and the album of the year category. They didn't get Song of the Year,

but they did get record of the year and album of the year. And I'm going to call it right now, I think they get at least one of those. I think people in the music industry are ready to crown this band. If I can quote Denny Green here. They want to crown their asses, I think. Do you remember that Denny Green? Do you know what I'm talking about?

The Denny Green press preference? Is that the same one? It's like they are who we thought they were. You want to crown them? Then crown their asses. We are who they thought they were. Yeah. We got to get the Jim Mora playoffs in there as well

it with regards to the Grammys. We're going to bring up all the, like, you know, I guess RIP Bobby Knight. We got to like bring up every old school coach who goes off in a press conference. Yeah. Well, anyway, that was the mini sports cast of this episode. We will now end sports cast. But yeah, Boy Genius, they are, yeah, like you said, they got, they were on SNL this past week. They got seven Grammy nominations.

They are definitely being put into a different strata now. terms of the music industry. And look, I'm happy for them. I especially hope that this helps their solo careers because I'll just reiterate my complaint from earlier this year. I think all three of these artists are a lot more interesting on their own than they are in this group. I think Boy Genius, there is a vibe around this band that I feel like is more about what

they signify than the songs. I think on their own, these artists, have the ability to create these very intimate worlds that communicate with people in a deep way. It seems more about the music to me than it does in Boy Genius. Boy Genius just has this thing about it that, I don't know. I hate to overuse the word cringe, but I feel like when they're together, it's just a cringier group than they are on their own. And the vibe about it, I'm just not into it. but I am happy for them as artists

and this will obviously help their solo careers and it seems like boy genius is about to be put on the shelf and they're going to get back to making their own records. I'm excited to hear what they do there. But yeah, the boy genius thing, I'm still not feeling it. Yeah, it reminds me of what it was like to be super excited about run the jewels and 13 and 14.

And it's like, I got like, I cannot, I mean, I wrote like a 5,000. word review of Run the Jewels 2 that ended up being like the number one album for Pitchfork in 2014. I cannot remember the last time I like went that hard liking a record and just like immediately did not want to hear it ever again. And so it's it's, I mean, it's obviously for a different set of people like Run the Jewels is more for, you know, folks who are, you know, our age and really like sports and want to see two dudes hanging out. And then it's like, oh yeah, I would much rather hear an LP or Killer Mike. solo album. Then I actually got a killer my solo album this year. And it was, I did not like it. But I think it's Grammy nominated. I think that is the, you know, the most, you know, the biggest this I can give it to it. It's like, oh, yeah, this sounds like an album that would be nominated for a rap Grammy. No, I mean, I think the run the jewels comparison is that because I think part of the excitement for that group initially was that, oh, we just like these two artists so much. There's so much goodwill for these people. And this is something that will give them an opportunity to maybe have more success. than they've had on their own.

And I think there's a similar thing with Boy Genius where there's a lot of goodwill for all these, for those three artists. And isn't it great that they're together? And isn't it great that they're friends? And isn't this such a good story? And like, we just love the story. The story, the story, the story, the story.

You know, like the narrative of that band, I feel like it's become so overbearing that it's just too much for me. And like that S&L sketch was just another example of like, all right, I'm ready. for this to be over, or at least to be put on pause. Let's get back to this other thing that I think is more, you know, it has more musical merit in my view.

By the way, I think it's worth noting, uh, have, A, I know how to pronounce Troy Sivan's name now. Did you hear, did you listen to that album yet? No, I haven't. What do you think? Uh, there, some of the songs I enjoy, uh, kind of remind me of like, circa 2011 cut copy or friendly fires, which friendly fires, Paula. that is a candidate, I think, for future Indycast Hall of Fame.

So many bangers on that. But yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it was just so terrifying to, like, see the audience laughing. It's like, as if they've never heard the word or concept twink before. Yeah, it's just like this down trickle of, like, some of the most, like, vicious and hilarious jokes made at Troy Savant's expense from, like, the little engagement I have with, like, gay, um, music Twitter. And also, speaking of like, you know, terrible Twitter shit, like, we got to give, like, a, you know, a show of solidarity to our pals. Josh Terry and Eric Bennett, friends of the pod, man, they made some Miley Cyrus remarks and they had the most miserable ass three days on Twitter. Miley's still got shooters out there. Well, yeah, because I believe it was Eric. He made a joke about Miley Cyrus getting all these Grammy nominations.

and then one of these stupid, terrible, Miley Cyrus fan accounts, which, by the way, if that's your life running a Miley Cyrus fan account, is that like where you saw yourself when you were a kid? Like, did you think, oh, this is where I'm going to end up, you know, running interference for Miley Cyrus online? But anyway, I mean, I saw myself talking about, you know, friendly fires in 2023 and 12 years. It's a great life.

That's a great life. Yeah, we're living the dream. And I don't know. I mean, I think Josh made a joke about being the editor of Pitchfork and people took him at face value. So, you know, that just goes to show the accumative IQ level that we're dealing with here. But yeah, I don't know. Miley Cyrus, come on. Come on.

If you're going to be a stand, Miley Cyrus, are you joking? Anyway, let's get to the mailbag segment. Thank you all for writing us. It's always great to hear from our listeners. We're at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. You want to read this letter? I sure do. So this comes from Adam from Rochester, New York, home of the band Carpool and also RXK Nephew.

Wow. Yeah, really running the gamut, Rochester, Indicast Time of Town. With the announcement of the The Smile record, I'm going to say this again because I'm like, do I put the in front of it? All right, with the announcement of the Smile's new record, it makes me wonder if we're going to hear from Radiohead again. I think these things as well. I thought the last record felt like a Radiohead record, and from the singles from the second LP, I think this will as well. Obviously, the band only plays stuff from The Smile Live,

so I'd love more Radiohead tours, but is what the Smile is putting out music-wise, enough where we can go without any more new Radiohead music. So kind of asking if the smile is what we're getting out of Radiohead these days. Yeah, and just to fill in the blanks here for people, who haven't heard the news. There was an announcement this week of the second album by The Smile. This is the band, of course, composed of Tom York, Johnny Greenwood from Radiohead,

and then you have Tom Skinner. Not the guy from the streets. I always get them confused. No, he's in the band Sons of Commet. And they have a new album coming out called Wall of Eyes that comes out in January, which, by the way, thank you for announcing an album in January. That's a dead zone for us. It'll be fun to talk about a new album by the show.

The Smile at that time. They also put a new video for the title track from that album. It's directed by Paul Thomas Anderson. It is, of course, a very visually arresting clip. You definitely want to go check that out. Thank you, Adam, for asking about this. This is an interesting question. You know, I was talking about this this week online, and I got a little bit of blowback because I posted about how it seems like the arrival of a second album by The Smile so soon after the first record that came out in 2022. It just feels like the possibility of a new Radiohead album

just seems slimmer, you know, because this doesn't feel like a side project at this point. This feels like a full-blown band. It's like if you call this a side project, it'd be like calling Gorillas a side project. It's like,

no, Gorillaz is a band on its own. It's pretty popular. Damon Alburn is obviously invested in that. And the fact that it's two people from Radiohead and the two most important people from Radiohead. They're the two most famous people. Let's not engage in Colin Greenwood Erasure.

Yeah, but come on. Tom York writes the songs. Johnny Greenwood is the sonic architect. They are the Lennon McCartney of Radiohead. I think that's... And I love Radiohead, no disrespect. I love Ed O'Brien. He's my favorite member,

but he is not as critical to Radiohead as Tom and Johnny are. The fact that they're both in this band and they seem really invested in it, it does make it feel like a distant possibility. said that and I got some blowback from people who are like, oh, you don't understand what the side project is and you're overreacting. And I don't know. I mean, I would expect there to be a Radiohead tour ahead of an album. Like I think an album is such a fraught thing for this band.

I mean, there's so much pressure on Radiohead. So many people read things into like what they do. It feels like the smile is a much more chill environment. They can just sort of make records and not have to deal with all the bullshit of a radio head album. So I could see them putting that kind of thing off, but still feeling like, well, let's do a tour, you know, like let's make several million dollars and play for fans and it'll be great. As for whether the smile replaces Radiohead, I mean, look, I would still love a Radiohead album. Like, I hope there's another Radiohead record.

I really liked a Moonshay pool. You know, I still feel like they were making good records. King of Limbs is a record that I think is maybe their weakest. But I know there's a lot of people out there that love that record, and it's still a good record. So I don't know. I mean, I don't want to rule out a Radiohead record. I still would like that. But yeah, I mean, if it's between the smile and nothing, I'm glad that they're doing music as The Smile.

I really liked the record that came out a few years ago. whose name I can't remember. Do you remember the name of that album? Do I have to Google this quickly? Smiley Smile. It was a light for attracting attention. Yeah, a light for attracting attention. Really good record.

I've heard the new album. We'll talk more about it later, but if you like the first record, I think you're going to like this one too. So I don't know. How do you feel about this, Ian? Yeah, I mean, I feel pretty confident saying radiohead are done. Oh, really?

You're going that far? Yeah, I mean, Look, we all know that, like, Radiohead was just getting in the way of, like, their true artistic path, which is, like, Phil Selway solo albums. You, you interviewed that dude, right? Yeah, I've interviewed Phil and Ed. Okay, cool. Yeah, interview Colin. Just complete the sec.

But, yeah. The other guys. Yeah. Yeah, they're actually going to get together and make the music for Andre 3000's eventual rap album. But, you know, I like, you know, even though I didn't, if I didn't love a Moonshape Pool as much as you seem to, a lot of people seem to, I think it was such a perfect ending for Radiohead, you know, especially ending with, you know, true love weights. It's just like anything would just kind of, I don't love the album, but I think it's a perfect ending. And so it's pretty clear that just with the relative quickness at which this album was released relative to the previous one, like one and a half years, unheard of pretty much. in radio headland. It sounds like they've got a lot of momentum and they really love what they're doing

and, you know, bending hectic, which appears to be on the album, that was a single that came out this year. I thought it was fucking awesome. It showed, I think, where this band could evolve and build on what came before, you know, the smile was an album I kind of admired, or I admired, but didn't love. This new song, the title track just seems to be a continuation of, you know, the smile, which was itself a continuation of a moon-shaped pool. And, you know, to Adam's point, I saw the smile headline Pitchfork Festival this past year, which was like a real culmination, like, of, I guess the site's entire goal to, like, have radiohead play.

Like, that would, that's like the bucket list type shit, even if it is just Tom, York, and Johnny. And I enjoyed listening to it. I thought it was cool. And I'm like, fuck, man, I would do anything if they just bust it. to rate any radio head song right now. Like I did not come to watch Johnny play a short scale bass. You know, this, I would do anything if they just put like the deepest hail to the thief deep cut.

Please play scatterbrain. Just, please. But otherwise. Imagine having those bullets in your gun and you're not going to fire them. Imagine just knowing like, oh, if we drop like a weird fishes in here, people are going to go ape shit. But no, we're not going to do that. That's an extremely popular song, though. thinking more along lines of like, I don't know, sulk.

Well, any, but I'm saying any radiohead song. Oh, of course. Like, if the small played any song by Radiohead, it would just blow the doors off of any show, but, like, they are a radio head. That's why we love them. They have the integrity not to do that. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week.

Ian, want you to go first. All right, I actually want to talk about a book today. It's from Rob Harvilla, Friend of the Pod. 60 songs that explain the 90s. We absolutely have to mention this book because both Steve and I have been on this show before. Steve's to talk about, I believe, Yellow Ledbetter. I was on to talk about Sunday Day Real Estate's in circles. So if you have to ask whether we're on brand outside of this podcast, the answer is absolutely.

And this was a really fun book to read because, you know, it just reminds me of a, I don't want to say, like, outdated because plenty of people, you know, that I read such as, you know, one Stephen Hayden and Chuck Gloucesterman write this way. But it's like, it's a, it's a kind of a throwback to a kind of like pan cultural cross-referencing style of music criticism that like tries to be funny and pulls it off and is legible to the average person. You know, because so much of the music, um, you know, because so much of the music, um, writing that we see nowadays is like kind of more academic and trying to like be important or meaningful. And you know, this book is meaningful. It's such fun to read because it's, it's always interesting to see the perspective of someone who's around my age but just saw different things than I did by a year or so. Like he, Rob remember seeing PJ Harvey on TV and Liz Phair on TV. I don't remember seeing those videos because, you know, I came of age maybe a couple years younger. And so it's just a really fun book that makes a lot of interesting, unexpected connections.

It's a breeze to read. It's funny. Yeah. Like, it's, the freedom with which Rob is writing here is very refreshing, you know, especially as like I pull my, no, I don't have any hair to pull out. But you get the picture, trying to make something, you know, trying to be self-critical and self-conscious writing in the year 2023. Yes, I'm a fan of this book as well.

I blurb this book. So you can see my praise somewhere for this book, I think. Also, I've been on his show twice. I was on the Pearl Jam episode and I was on the Oasis episode. So doubling down on me being me on his show. But yeah, that show is great. He likes you for you. Hey, Stephen Hyde.

Well, and Rob, too, he's part of the Midwest music critic mafia. So, you know, he gets my support there as well. But yeah, good on him. the book seems to be doing really well. It's a really fun book to read. His show is great. He's a really nice guy. So shout out to Rob Harbella. And congrats on the book.

I want to talk about the new M.J. Lenderman Live record that came out today. It's called End the Wind, which is the name of his band. And then parentheses, Live and Loose, exclamation point. And look, I'm a huge M.J. Lenderman fan. I'm a huge fan of live album,

so I am inclined to endorse this record. But I will say, and I say this as someone who counts both songs, the previous MJ Lenderman record, as one of my favorite albums of the decade so far. I actually think that this album might be a little bit better than that. And the reason I give at the edge is because not only is he playing all of those wonderful Boat Song songs, he's also digging into his back catalog,

in particular the record that he released before Boat Sons, which is called Ghost of Your Guitar Solo. And if you've heard that record, you know, he recorded that at home. It's very bare bones. A lot of the songs are pretty short. But when he plays them on this live record, they're completely transformed. I mean, he's playing them with the band, so they sound bigger. They're just better performances.

So you're really getting like an improved version of like a lot of those older songs from M.J. Lenderman. And then you're also getting his single from this year, Rudolph. That's on this record. That's a fantastic song. So really, I mean, this is the record where if I was going to introduce someone to MJ and Lenderman, I think I might actually play this live album ahead of both songs. As much as I love both songs, I feel like this is kind of like almost like a mini-greatest hits of like what he has done so far. And I actually have an interview with MJ that goes up on Up Rocks today, today, Friday, November 17th.

and we talk about this record. He also talks about his favorite live albums. So it's a really fun conversation. He was drinking a beer backstage in Dublin when we talked. So it was a very appropriate environment to talk to MJ Lenderman. But look, he's just one of my favorite artists right now. I expect him to be putting out his next studio LP in 2024. That's already one of my most anticipated albums of that year.

But for now, if you're a fan of this guy or you're curious about it, him. This live record, I think, is a must listen. So definitely dig into it. Yeah, this one, it was like custom built for the Steve and Hyden's seal of approval. I can't wait to hear it as well. I've heard a lot of great things about it, particularly that it might even be better than boat songs. And I think, you know, when he does release that out next year, I know he signed to Antai. We'll have the conversation surely, like, whether MJ has like a higher ceiling than Wednesday. Yeah, I don't know. He, I mean, he's a star. I know. I have no doubt in my mind that he's going to go far because he's got the tunes he has this like

sort of like laid back charisma where it seems like he's not trying hard but like he produces great stuff I don't know he has like a lot of intangibles uh so yeah I I'm really excited to hear what he does next yeah potential number one pick and whatever fantasy draft that we do for 2024. And I'll just say too, I listen to this album, because we've had beautiful weather here in Minnesota this week, beautiful fall weather. I listened to this album by a bonfire and while I was grilling out. So it has the bonfire test in the grilling out test. Pass with flying colors. I can't give higher praise than that. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We will be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're

looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped NewsLews. letter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.