Indiecast - Apple Music's Best 100 Albums List + The New DIIV Album

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

Steven and Ian open this week's episode by recapping Ian's epic technical fail that canceled last week's episode (0:26). They also revisit last week's lost Kings Of Leon conversation and this year's wealth of memory-holed albums (2:43). Finally, Steven expresses gratitude that his Sportscast rant about jinxing the Timberwolves in the lost episode never aired (9:41).Then the guys address Apple Music's list of the 100 Best Albums, which prompted a lot of conversation this week (20:34). For instance: Is 1989 (Taylor's Version) really the 18th best album of all time? Steven forwards the idea that 60 years might be too wide of a time span for one list when it comes to assessing music. From there, they review the new album by DIIV, Frog In Boiling Water, which Steven might like more than Ian (38:29).In Recommendation Corner, Ian hypes up the latest from Young Jesus while Steven stumps for From Indian Lakes (56:17).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 190 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about Apple Music's 100 greatest albums lists in the new record by Dive. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I hope his computer is plugged in this time.

Ian Cohen, Ian, Ian, how are you? So, yeah, for those keeping track at home, we're officially tied one-to-one. terms of who tanked the episode. You know, I appreciate Steve not referring to that online, but yeah, it was just a whole mess last week. Bar Mitzvahs happened, trying to guide PC users through Mac. It's a shame because, and again, I read Steve's books, so I'm going to speak exclusive

and born in the USA metaphors throughout this episode. But this, that was like our electric Nebraska, you know, that just lost the digital dust been a history. What a shame. Well, I would give you a hard time about this, Ian, except I, as you said, I've screwed up an episode for technical reasons. I should also say that for today's episode, we got started 20 minutes late because my internet kept dropping out. So I don't know, we're a little, you know, what's the word, star crossed here on Indycast lately. The technical gods are conspiring against this. I almost took the lead in the episode Screw Up Talley today, but I think we're going to be okay.

We're recording on Zoom. We're moving forward. You were telling me, you really went the extra mile to try to save the episode last week because you were apparently... I really did. You went out of town. There was like some family thing that you had, I believe, right? Like a bat mitzvah you attended? Yeah, my niece is Bot Mitzvah, which by the way, at the Bat Mitzvah they were playing, crank that. And they also, I think they play like a snippet of not like us, which the subtext of playing

that at a Bob Mitzvah is just fucking insane in 2024. But we won't go into that. Yeah, you know, I feel bad for our listeners because I know you all look forward to Indycast on Friday morning. You drink your coffee to Indycast. You drive to work with Indycast. you go to the gym with Indycasts, we weren't there for you. And I regret that, even though it was beyond our control,

the technical gods, as I said, are conspiring against this this month. But I feel the most bad for Kings of Leon, because we had a stellar conversation about Kings of Leon last week that no one's ever going to hear. And I feel like that conversation might have been the only record that that Kings of Leon album even exists. because here we are about two weeks, I think, since that record dropped. And it might as well have never come out.

Like, no one remembers this record. It's wiped off the face of the planet. And I was thinking that we might have to do like a special indie cast investigation into memory hold albums of 2024 so far, because this has been like an elite year for memory hold albums. Like, what if I told you, Ian, that Justin Timberlake, not two months ago, put out a new album? Like, would you believe me? Would you think I was joking?

I feel like there'd be like a 50-50 chance that I'd be lying in that scenario. But he actually did. Yeah. In most years, I would probably forget this. But I've been storing that one in my mind just because it's so memory hold that it's actually quite unforgettable. Like, this is historically memory hold. This is not like, you know, some other pop albums that, you know, tend to come out like, you know, when a Green Day album comes out like 2020.

And it's like, oh, yeah, I remember that. Or like a Metallica album. This one is, I can't think of anything like it, aside from like the other non-Taylor Swift pop albums that have come out in 2024. I love that concept of the memorable memory hold album because you're totally right. except I did forget that it existed. I mean, I feel like we could have gotten Daddy's home level content out of that Justin Timberlake record,

but it just kept slipping from my mind. It was like a banana peel or something, a mental banana peel, the slipping from my cerebral cortex over and over again. Is that the part of where the memory is? I was trying to sound sweet. I don't think that's right. I was about to say, like,

I mean, I work in the medical field and I don't have all the brain mapped out. out. So I was about to give you shit and then I realized, wait, I don't really know where memory gets stored either. Is it the cerebellum maybe? Maybe that's where memory is? I'm not sure. Yeah, I was trying to sound smarter than I am and I totally failed immediately. But yeah, there's the Timberlake album. There was like an Ariana Grande album that came out this year. No memory of that. Green Day, of course, the champs of memory hold albums. They put out a record this year that might as well have never existed. They're on a run of memory.

We talk about the five albums test. They're on the five memory hold albums test because what's the last Green Day album people remember? I mean, there's American Idiot. And then there's like, is it 21st century breakdown? Is that the next record? Yeah, that's the one I, I mean, I know it exists. And I could tell you when it came out. I mean, they had the what, the Uno Dose Trace trilogy.

Yeah, that was a flex. That was a flex. Yeah, that's a new level of memory hold. Also, there was the one father of all motherfuckers, which I believe that's, or is that the one where they had like the Billboard where it's like no Swedish producers, no pop hits? I mean, they do some things that are memory. Like, they do something per album release cycle that is memorable. But the music itself just, I actually kind of want to go to a Green Day show in the near future just to see how much of their memory hold era gets reversed. vibe for the set list.

Yeah, I mean, they could just be going up there playing anything and being like, yeah, this is our favorite song off of dose. And they play anything off of that. And then people wouldn't know the difference. I feel like the only music that's come out this year is the Taylor Swift, Beyonce, and like those Kendrick and Drake disc tracks. And I guess like Waxahatchie would be like the one indie rock record. And you got Cindy Lee in there as well.

but are those is that the only music that that's come out this year that i mean espresso kind of counts too that that one actually seems to have some legs but um song in the summer you know as yeah that's the song of the summer and i think people actually like that we'll see how long to billy eilish uh long tail last but have you ever single that's that song lunch lunch by billy ilish i promise i was going to listen to it for the sake of the podcast but now that what i'm really into is that the hottest rapper in the game is guy literally named Ian. He got a 4.1 on pitch for him today. The guy's name is Ian.

It is a white guy. It's just Ian. He's just Ian. There's no last name. There's no like, he's not Lil Ian or anything like that. He's just Ian. Yes. And he's got a 4.1.

And like, it's so weird to see pretty much every single, you know, prior to social media, like every single like, every single piece of hate mail that I've ever gotten, like turned into a review. You know, it's like, oh, his writing's actually a 4.1. I mean, I guess I just don't like travel in rap circles enough where, like, my life will be materially affected by a big rapper named Ian. But, yeah, but you're right. Like, no music, like, even like the big indie albums that have come out this year. Like, Waxahatchy's got some legs.

You know, I think people still listen to the Madigan Pussy album. Cindy Lee, I mean, Cindy Lee, Stygie. touring so who knows how long that's gonna last yeah but this feels like a very much memory hold year it's like duolipa had a new album come out and i think that i think people care about that but fuck man who maybe i'm just like so in my own world nowadays that i don't know what's what's the what pop hits are happening but yeah you're you're absolutely correct in that the drake kendrick beaver we talked about this before like that just wiped everything else off face of the earth including kind of sort of Taylor Swift for a bit yeah it was like napalm for music it just cleared

all of the detritus uh that was going on um i just love that there's a rapper name ian i hope that's the new trend that like for rappers where uh it's going to be like the next rapper is Larry. Here's Larry. Larry is dropping a new album. Another thing we talked about last week, and this just goes to show that when we don't have an episode,

it doesn't feel like a week past. It feels like a month past. You know, there's a weird time inflation that goes on in my podcasting brain where things that we talked about last week, it just feels like it was so long ago.

We started last week's episode, the lost episode, with me lamenting that I jinxed the Minnesota Timberwolves by jumping on the bandwagon. By the way, this is a sports cast, doing a quick sports cast here. But I began the lost episode feeling like I jinxed the Minnesota Timberwolves because I talked about how I jumped on the bandwagon because they were doing well in the playoffs. They got off to a 2-0 lead on Denver. And then last week, when we recorded, Minnesota was down three, two. to Denver. And Denver had just won three straight. They looked like they were just going to close out the series. And then, was it like the next day or the day after that? Minnesota wins by like

45 at home. Yeah. Just emphatically. Just destroys Denver. And then in game seven, which was last Sunday, they're down 20 in like the third quarter or something. And they won the game. They won at home. They won decisively. Yeah. Crazy shit happening in that game. Like Rudy Gobert, hitting fadeaway jumpers, like, after eating shit from Yokic for like five years. And then, like, KAT doing like a follow-up dunk, like, just all the stuff that you would

not expect the Timberwolf to pull out. Like, you would expect, like, Anthony Edwards to go two for 25 that game. And, like, for Kat to, like, get six foul in the first quarter. But it was just bizarre to watch. Yeah, and I just felt like, well, now the Timberwolves are down 1-0 to the Mavericks in their series. So I'm not going to make any proclamations. It's just amazing to me that last week they were down 3-2 to Denver, and now they're up 1-0 on the Mavs. Again, it feels like a month past since we recorded.

I want to get your take on this, too, because you and I, we like to make fun of East Coast, New York-based music writers who just overhaul. hype anything coming out of New York, which really, quite honestly, has not been a thing for a while. It pops up. I mean, we went through like indie sleeves for a bit. That's true. Yeah, right. Time Square, all that garbage. Like, who cares? Some of that. You get every now and again, like, and I like these bands, but like water from your eyes or model actress, you can see the flickers of that still coming up. But, yeah, it's not a movement. It was worse in the 2010s. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Definitely worse in the on. But not as much of a thing anymore, but you and I like to make fun of that.

And there was a similar thing going on in the NBA with the Knicks and Pacers, where everyone was clowning on ESPN for just how crazy over the top they were, focusing on the Knicks and ignoring the Pacers. And then, of course, the Pacers win game seven. And it was a little weird for me because normally I would be all in on that story, but I haven't really enjoyed the Pacers this playoffs because they beat the Bucks. And Tyrese Halliburton, I'm not, I don't know.

I like his story and he has Wisconsin roots, but he was really annoying in that Buck series and it put a bad taste in my mouth. So I actually wasn't pulling for them, but the East Coast bias was so egregious that it actually made me, it turned me around again to the Pacers favor. And now I'm hoping that they beat Boston.

But, you know, they, they choked away that game in game one against Boston. Tyrese Halliburton can't dribble the ball at the end of the game, apparently, or guard an inbound or catch an inbound. So that was frustrating, but I don't know. I don't know if you were getting any vibes from the East Coast of Grievous bias going on in the school. I mean, I think it is pretty fun, like, unlike with music, it is kind of more fun when the Knicks are, like, you know, actually pretty good.

and they're a very likable team. I think the Pacers, they would be a fun team in most circumstances. Like, they play no defense. They score 140 points per game. But like you were saying, Halliburton is Cornball. He really plays up the Reggie Miller comparisons. And like Reggie Miller was one of the most cornball joyless superstars of their era. So, and you know what, I would have got on board if they just closed out the Celtics

who, I mean, I don't even know if I want to call that East Coast bias, people caring about them. I mean, there is a whole Boston media mafia, but they're playing at a pretty historic level right now. I just think that ESPN, if anything, is practicing basketball, pop-timism. If that's an actual thing, if our listeners, like, stay with me after those words came out of my mouth, like, they'll have my undying gratitude. But, yeah, like, being on the East Coast, by the way, for the past weekend, And it just reminded me how insane it is to start watching a basketball game at 8.30 at night. Yeah. Yeah, that's brutal.

And these West Coast games, you can't finish it. You must be pooped by halftime, man. It's like way too late. That's always wild to me being on your coast when, like, NFL games started 10 in the morning, which is actually pretty awesome. It's great. And what? So all the games then are done by, like, four? at least at least like the day game so then you have like a nice break for dinner you could you know

it's not like you're taking your whole day watching sports i mean that seems like a pretty cool setup you got there on the yeah especially on sundays you know not anymore but like you could watch football or just like kind of you know experience it through uh your yahoo fantasy app and then you can watch like succession and uh or the sympathizer or the jinx or whatever else it it really makes for a good flow in the day you know yeah You know, football in bed. That seems pretty fun. Just imagining that.

Let's do a quipple, a couple quick housekeeping things. I was trying to say couple and quick at the same time. That's how quick this housekeeping segment is going to be. I just want to plug my book. It comes out on Tuesday, May 28th. There was nothing you could do. Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA and the End of the Heartland. Available wherever you buy books.

There's also an audiobook edition that I read. this time. So if you don't have enough of us on BDCAS, you can listen to me, read my book. Also want to shout out. I have an event with Brian Fallon of the Gaslight Anthem in Brooklyn on May 29th. That's Wednesday. If you are in the area, I would love to see you come through. You do need to buy a ticket, but you can, if you want to buy the book, if you buy the book, you get in, or else if you buy like a gift certificate for like five bucks, you get in. So if you're going to buy the book and you're in the area, just buy it at the powerhouse arena. That's where it's going to be. It would be great to see you. Also, of course, I got an event coming up in L.A., June 11th with my boy Ian Cohen.

We're going to be at Book Soup there on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood. That's going to be a lot of fun. So I also want to say, and I think you alluded to this, or maybe this was in one of the versions. of this episode that crashed this morning. Our fantasy draft is officially over. Ian, you won. Final score is 427 to 418. Am I 0 in 3 now or 0.2?

You're 0.3. I'm 0.3. Awful. Firing my GM, which is me. I'm going to hire a new GM, which will also be me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, babe. Just brought it home for you. A lethal combination of baddie, all R&B with this album inspired by a recently deceased father

who was apparently in the Juice crew. I picked that album just like kind of thinking it would be kind of like a Neo-Archives or like Sudan archives and maybe due mid-80s. But yeah, that's an 89 right now. And even though Beth Gibbons, like I picked her number one more as a defensive move, 88 is still an overperformance. Like you had that double 90 for Jessica Pratt and I'm due Mokhtar. I thought that was it right there.

But I kind of, like, nine points is a lot, but it felt closer than it really was. What I mean, it's just a heavyweight battle. But now we don't have a fantasy, we don't have any fantasy talk happening until like July, because we wrap this up pretty early. Well, no, because we're going to draft, well, I guess you're right.

That's true. We can do it. We could do like a June quickie, like, you know, like a, I don't know what the sports comparison, would be like maybe like a one set tennis match or something like that just to see who can really scramble who can find the hidden gems yeah we'll see uh we might need the content well we'll find out about that um yeah taylor swift again i've complained about this in other episodes but it's true she screwed me over 76 which is the same score that the kings of leon album got by the way kings of leon

and taylor swift same level that's where taylor swift was at with this latest record I mean, what, I lost by nine? If Taylor Swift, if Taylor Swift does Taylor Swift numbers, I sailed the victory. You know, she should be pulling an upper 80 with this. Don't let Kamasi Washington off the hook either. I think Kamasi pulled an 81, didn't he? Yeah, but I don't think you picked that for an 80.

I think you picked that for 88, like, one jazz album making the indie list. But I think maybe their time has passed. Shabaka now. It's Taylor Swift. I mean, look, if Denver loses, who do you blame? Do you blame Jamal Murray?

You blame Yokic. He's the three-time MVP. You blame Michael Porter, Jr. just because that guy, that's an easy guy to blame, just because he has, like, really, like, brainworms ideas about, like, vaccines, but...

Well, yeah. But, look, he's Kamasi in this scenario, and Taylor is Yokic. And, again, Taylor, if you do your regular numbers, I sailed a victory, but you underperformed and I lost almost by double digits. Very disappointing. You blame the GM Calvin Booth, which is you.

Yeah, well, again, I fired the GM, which is me, and I'm going to hire a new GM, which will also be me. But I'm mad at the GM version of myself. I'm going to focus on that for now before I hire. Like you said, we have like a month, over a month here to figure this out. So I'm going to reconvene and, I don't know, do some soul search. before the next draft. Got to, yeah, got to get out the Schneide here. Let's talk about this Apple Music, Best 100 Albums list.

This was a phenomenon on the internet this week. Apple Music, the streaming site, streaming platform, they released a list of their 100 greatest albums. They did 10 per day. So I guess this was like over a week and a half. And it finally concluded, this week. And I'll read the top 10. Their top 10 is

Lemonade, Beyonce at 10. 9. Nevermind. Nirvana. 8. Back to Black Amy Whitehouse. 7. Good Kid Mad City. Kind of Lamar. 6. Stevie Wonder. Songs in the Key of Life. 5. Blonde by Frank Ocean. 4. Purple Rain by Prince and the Revolution. 3. Abby

Road by The Beatles. 2. Thriller. Who's Thriller by again? Who did Thriller? Who did that album? Newfound Glory or no, that's Alkaline Shrio. Like there was, I'm trying to remember what Pop Punk band did, uh, uh, and now I'm called Thriller.

I think it was Newfound Glory. Oh, did they? New, new and, no, no, it's like an, fuck man. I, there's like some emo band and I cannot remember its name, but it made an album called Thriller. But, um, yeah, I am like so new and.

Oh my God, I'm gonna like fucking die here. Well, let's just move on. This was a joke. I just wanted to do like a quick joke. We don't need to blabler. New and original. New and original. Fuck.

Okay, there you go. Anyway, Michael Jackson Thrower, number two. Number one, the miseducation of Lauren Hill. Not a bad top 10 for whatever this is. But people were getting upset about this list. There's a lot of weird juxtapositions on this list where you've got like the canonical records that we all expect to be on a list. to be on a list like this, and then they'll be like a record from like five years ago in the middle.

Or, you know, that happened throughout the list, and it was a little jarring, I think, for people. Although I think it makes sense, especially considering this is a streaming platform, you know, they want to bring in newer records. I mean, the funniest thing for me, and I think this was true for a lot of people, was there was a run from 23 to 18, where you have it, we know, it's 22 to 18. You had born to run at 22. 21, I think, was a revolver by the Beatles. 20 was Pet Sounds.

19 was the chronic by Dr. Dre. And number 18 was 1989. Taylor's version. Taylor's version. Not the original version. Taylor's version, which came out last year, I think, maybe the year before that, at number 18. So we're not saying 1989 is better than that. and Revolver and Pet Sounds

and Born to Run and The Chronic. We're saying that Taylor's version. Yeah, it's not no substitutes. Which is hilarious to me for many reasons. I mean, look, I understand you want to put Taylor Swift up high. She's like the biggest star in the world. In 1989's her most popular record. I get that.

But the Taylor's version, really? Like, I saw people defending this this week because I made a joke about it online. And there are the people going like, well, it's the biggest record of her career. No, it's not. It's the Taylor's. version of it. That's what makes it funny. It's the re-recorded version. It's like,

even Apple music. Is the original on Apple Music anymore? I think that's like a something to consider. Oh, I hadn't, I assume it is. Why? I'm going to look at, I'm going to look this up right now. Look it up. Which I do use. Okay. So I'm looking at albums. Oh, yeah, there is a 1989. There's an, there's an OG. Okay. So that's, that concludes the Indycast investigation into whether 1989, the original version is on Apple Music. It's like, is Apple Music scared of Taylor Swift that, like, if they don't suck up to her and put the Taylor's version on the list, that she's going to pull her music? I mean, is that the thinking here? Because otherwise, that makes no sense at all.

Like, because it's not even you're making a case that 1989 is better than Pet Sounds, which by itself is kind of a funny thing to think about. But even there, I could maybe justify that, at least in the world of Apple Music. But the Taylor's version is not. Come on. We can say that. That is ridiculous. I think you just kind of have to honor it. Like that's maybe the Taylor's version is now, I guess, the official one. I don't know. It's like Smile like the 2004 version of Beach Boys Smile rather than like the kind of legendary one. I don't know. I don't, I'm not ensconced enough in the Lord.

That never came out officially though. Smile was not officially released in the 60s. It was This mythical record, and then it officially came out in the 2000. So, I mean, are we memory-holing the original 1989? Are we pretending that that was just like a bootlet? Right? Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I mean, look, I love lists, and I love when lists piss people off because that's what

they're supposed to do. It's a fun thing to talk about. Like, what are we going to talk about otherwise? Like, politics, you know, that's awful. Like, it's more fun to argue about this list. I want to read, like, the bottom 10. too because I think the bottom 10 is more representative of what this list was like. So at 100 you have Body Talk by Robin.

At 99, you have Hotel California by the Eagles. I thought you were going to say Hotel Year. I haven't looked at this list. No, no, there's no, hotel year in here. Number 98, Astro World by Travis Scott. So you have Hotel California. That's fucking bizarre, by the way. Like, wow.

There's probably people who are like, that's way too low for Astero. There's like kids out there. So you have Astero World 98, Rage Against the Machine, self-titled 97. Lord, Pure Heroin, 96. Confessions by Usher at 95. Burials Untrue at 94. Solange's a seat at the table at 93.

Flower Boy, Title of the Creator, 92. Listen Without Prejudice Volume 1 by George Michael. Which I love that record. I don't think faith is on here. Yeah, that's a weird. That's kind of a weird choice. And also, I guess, like, pure heroin over melodrama, but I mean, I might just be speaking from critical perspective. Well, that's the bigger record.

Yeah. For commercial juggernaud, it would be pure heroin. And then, okay, so what comes after, Listen Without Prejudice, Volume 1? Back in Black by ACDC. So, you know, it's just like a funny, it's funny to me, like this progression. I think it was funny and weird to a lot of people. There's like a, I think later on the list, I saw someone, like, you know, the people you would expect losing their minds. over the fact that a love supreme is like two spots behind a Billy Ilish out

that came out five years ago or something like that. Right. And it got me thinking about what is the maximum amount of time that a list like this can assess before it becomes weird? You're like if you're doing like an old. Well, because I was thinking about when I was a kid, the first album's list that I saw was this issue that Rolling Stone put out in like 87. It was like the 20th anniversary of the magazine. And they did like their 100 best albums of the last 20 years. Basically the best records of the

Rolling Stone era. And which you can look at that and say that's pretty self-centered to just make the span of your magazine the size of the canon. But I know like Spin did something similar once like where they did like best album since 1985. And I really think that like 30 years, is maybe the maximum where these kind of lists make sense because just going back to that Rolling Stone list, if they had done like a 60 year span,

which is what this Apple music list is, basically, I think the oldest album was kind of blue, Miles Davis, which I think is 58 or so, 58, 59. And that's, of course, the most chalk jazz album to put on a list like this. There's like two jazz albums

and it's like Miles Davis and John Coltrane and that's it. There's no country albums on the list which I was a little surprised by like there's no like Willie Nelson Redheaded Stranger or like John or Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison

or even like Shania Twain or Garth Brooks Right exactly Super popular you know I mean because like with these lists people do set unconscious limits in their mind like what they're going to cut off

the time limit for like you're not putting Beethoven on these lists you know like Beethoven's ninth isn't ended up by yeah he was more of a he was more of a singles artist if we're really being real here I mean like what's better

Beethoven's ninth or thriller you know which album should be at number one or like the miseducation of Lauren Hill or like Bach which one is better you know like people make a mental sort of limit in their mind what they're gonna

what error they're gonna judge I just think 60 years is probably too big because at some point you look at a list like this And it's like, what does Tyler the creator have to do with ACDC? You know, what does Hotel California have to do with Body Talk? I mean, that Rolling Stone issue that I remember from a kid, from being a kid, like it was interesting because you felt like these records were part of the same world.

And it was a canon of that period of time. It was like the rock era, essentially. And it wasn't just rock records on the list, but it was like, you know, that sort of 60, 70s, 70s and 80s type time period. and it was a discreet period and it made sense. I just think at some point, if it goes too long, it just becomes incoherent. And I think that's the issue with this list among other things,

is that it feels so random, you know, to have a Love Supreme, and then you have a Billy Irish record, and then you've got, you know, it takes a nation of millions to hold us back, and then you've got, you know, whatever, appetite for destruction. I don't know, 30 years to me feels like the right span of time. maybe for a list of... Yeah, because if we go back 30 years, like literally 30 years, history begins with the simultaneous release of Weasers the Blue Album and Sunday Day

Real Estate's diary. Right. It happened about 30 years ago, but, you know, this list reminds me of, and I don't know if it's meant for critics or just like to draw people to Apple Music, which is a superior streaming site, at least for sound, but I'll get asked at work. Like, you know, for people you, you know, I say this with... kindness kind of normie. He's like, oh, what's your, like, oh, you're a music guy? Like, what's your favorite band? And I have to, like, just be a, I feel like such an asshole saying,

like, can we narrow this to a decade, maybe a genre? Because, like, how am I supposed to compare, like, Jimmy E. World to, like, Led Zeppelin or, like, Outcast. Speaking of Outcast, I do, I do, I was a little worried that this out, they'd be excluded or that they put a love below or Stanconia, but they picked Quim and I. number 41, that's the right choice. But, you know, the thing that really weirded me out, you know, just speaking outcast, is that trying to wrap my head around the fact the best album ever made, ever, of all time, came out when I was a freshman in college.

Like, I remember, like, I have memories of that album coming out. By the way, I'd say pitchfork out of right, and that Equimmonite is the best album, 1998, not misadication. But, yeah, because I always wondered, like, oh, what must it have been like to experience songs in the key of life when it just came out? Right. or something like that. It's like, I don't, I mean, yeah, that album was like really celebrated,

but I don't remember like time stopping and, like, everything centering around Long. It was like a great album. It, you know, probably topped the Passenjohn's Jop that year. But was I listening to it more than Uncle Science Fiction? Probably not. Right. And, I mean, the thing with lists like this is when you think about older albums, they have a gravitas to them

that makes it very difficult to compare them to something newer. If you think about pet sounds, for instance, it's like, how can you compare that to an album that came out in the past decade? And it's not necessarily about pet sounds even being better. It's just that it has like the weight of history behind it

and we know the influence that it's had and the place it has in the culture or any, I mean, not just pet sounds like any older album like that. Right. And then the advantage that a newer album has is that it's more relevant to young. younger people. Like, they remember when Lord Pure Heroin came out and it has a relevance to their own life that a classic record that they discovered decades after it came out can never have.

So I just feel like where you come from with these two groups of albums, it's a totally different place. And it's just really hard to put it in the right context. I really think that the appeal of a list like this for some people is like the kill your parents type. instinct of life. Yeah, man, the record from my childhood is better than Exile on Main Street. You know, like the record I grew up with, yeah, that's better than songs in the key of life. Like, hey, I'm sticking it to you, grandpa, but putting this record up higher. I mean, I think that's part of it for some people. They like to feel like, oh, now we're going to get revenge on all the listmakers that we had to put up with when we were growing up and we're going to like put our stuff at number one.

which is fine. I get that. But I just feel like, again, at some point, these lists just become incoherent if it's a too wide span of time. Because there is no such thing as like a greatest albums of all time type list that would make sense. Because again, you have to go back to Beethoven.

Music before that, Gregorian chants. Like, were we going to like put Gagorian chants on here somewhere? I mean, that stuff is, you know, that stuff has stood the test of time. You know, it's just impossible. It becomes ridiculous at some point. Yeah, I just think that the bigger problem people seem to have with this one is, you know, the diff. I'm okay with like favorite albums list.

Like best or greatest implies that there's this brain trust behind it. And, you know, I think people, at least in our feel, were disappointed that there were no bylines or that you had to really click around to find blurbs that gave context to it at all. It's just like, here's us. here's Apple Music. Who's Apple Music? I don't know. Like, does Tim Cook fuck with these out? Is Tim Cook still alive? I don't remember who's top brass at Apple Music. But you know what? Like, it's so rare for me as an Apple Music user, a long-time Apple music user to feel like, oh, finally, people are talking about the platform I use every year. At the end of the year, Spotify does their rap. Then, like, mine is like a white, a 10-hour white noise sleep thing because I don't listen to Spotify. I feel left out. Yeah, Apple Music, man, stepping up.

This is, like, the most people have talked about Apple Music and, you know, since what, like, you two put the out by everyone's iPod. I mean, that... Did they make the list? Or phone. Yeah, Joshua Tree's on there. Okay, good. I'm not good.

I mean, it's not my time of favorite of Al's, but if it... Should have been Octuibaby. Octu Baby should have been the one. That's a good point. But Joshua Tree is a great one, too. It is interesting, you know, going back to Taylor Swift, because the Taylor's version sucked up all the oxygen, with Taylor Swift. She only had one album on the list.

Radiohead had two. I was about to ask if any of them had two. Yeah, I mean, you know, Beyonce had two, the Beatles at least had two. I don't know if there were multiple Dylan records or not. Let me just do a quick word search for Dylan. Let's get 76. There it is.

Yeah, too low. No, just Highway 61 revisited for Dylan. But yeah, two Radiohead albums. And I think, I wonder a kid, because yeah, they had two in the top 40 because kid A was 33

and okay computer was 12. Yeah, I think there's just one Nirvana album. So yeah, Radiohead sneak it in there with two. Good for them. Were there any indie rock albums at all? Like,

I'm like talking about like, you know, replacements or pixies or... No, they ignored that shit. No indie rock, man. Eddie getting dissed. I mean, does daft punk cut as indie rock?

Absolutely not, but I think that there's... Is Bjork IndiRog? Is Bjork IndiRog or Kate Bush? Arctic Monkeys? We're calling Arctic Monkeys as Indy Rock. They're like... They fucking made it? AM made it, man.

AM. Wow. AM, one spot above the Velvet Underground and Nico. Which is, I guess, the closest thing to an indie rock record on this list, now that you mention it. Yeah, yeah, sorry Lou Reed. You didn't have a song that was like in every beer commercial for a while, so you don't make the list. The Strokes, are they indie rock?

They're indie adjacent, I guess. The Smiths. Yeah, kind of. We're switching, we're no longer indie cast. We're Applecast now. We're Applecast, yeah, we're just going through this list. Is this Sit by the Strokes? One spot above, Master of Puppets.

They put Master of Puppets at 69. That's great. Love it. Nice. The dirt bag number one. It should have been back. It should have been back in black. But, you know, that's, you don't want to fiddle with the results too much.

Yeah, that's true. Landa Del Rey made it. She's India adjacent, I would say. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. That's enough of that list. Let's talk about an album that didn't make the list because it just came out.

Yeah. It's called Frog and Boiling Water. It's the latest by Dive. It's their fourth. record. I wrote about this album. I interviewed the band. This is one of my favorite albums of the year. I like it a lot. I love dive again, for those who don't know. I guess we'll call them a shoegaze band. I would, I'm more comfortable calling them like a Dream Pop band. I don't think they're totally shoegaze. They're like in

the space between Shugays and Dream Pop. I actually think this record is more shoegazey than they have been. I don't know how you feel about that. I know that they talked about on their last record, which came out in 2019, it was called Deceiver. It seemed like they were consciously trying to make more of a shoegaze-sounding record. But this one, I think, is more authentically shoegazy, at least to my ears.

I don't know, though. Shoe-gays is in such a weird place, how people define what that even is at this point. But it was interesting talking to the band because they talked a lot about the lyrical content of this record. They're talking about essentially the state of the world. And as you might guess, it's not a very positive album.

They're really fascinated by this idea of culture being a slow decline. And a lot of the songs talk about that. And I know at one point, Zachary Cole Smith, who's the front man of the band, he described it as a political shoegaze album, which is funny. because when you think of shoe gaze music, not only do you not think of politics, you really don't think about lyrics at all. You don't think about understanding the lyrics.

You know, shoegaze vocals tend to be pretty, you know, floaty, if we shall say. You know, as, as, I'm trying not to use the word ethereal here, because that's like the cliche critic word to say about shoe gay's music, but... It's more hemagogic. It's more hypnotic. Yeah, exactly.

But, yeah, there's this angry, lyrical content and the music is often, I think, very beautiful, beautiful guitar tones, very epic sounding. I'm a big fan of this record, but I've noticed in the past when I've brought up this album on the show, you've seemed kind of reserved. And I feel like you're maybe not as into this record as I am. So I'm curious what you think of this album. Yeah, I mean, I was, I was really excited for it. You know, I enjoyed it my first listen. So I was a bit surprised when you kind of like call it like an instant album the year contender and i won't say album of the year i'd say like an album like top 10 it was an instant top 10 or top fiber for me

and you know that that could be true and but like i what i was hearing um i didn't quite hear like the same leap from what they were doing at the seaver with the seaver now let me just like preface by saying i'm very much at is the isar probably will always be my favorite dive album because I guess the sprawl, the range to use a couple of critical cliches. And I felt like with this seever, the thing that kind of limited my enjoyment of it was that they kind of kept in a pretty similar tempo, pretty similar tone. And what struck me about frog and boiling water, it reminded me, it made me think of like what it might have been like to wait five years between 17 seconds and faith rather than a year for the. The Cure. Now, like, if Dive had made, like, their pornography, like, a real deep, dark, like, violent album, that might have been different. But, you know, I've listened to this album a lot very recently, knowing that this episode is coming up. And I like it a lot more now. It reminds me a little bit of what it was like to experience albums in 2012 and 2013 when I get the advanced, like, three, four months before the record came out and listened to it five to ten times. and come up with an opinion on myself,

rather than having two weeks or maybe even a week to develop an opinion. I imagine this album will continue to grow in esteem. It's nice to have an album grow on me. Everybody out, like, fuck, that's an incredible song. The one with the harmonics, you know, kind of sonic youth style. Yeah, I like this album a lot.

I guarantee, even if I don't, like, put it in my top 10, like, rankings, there's no doubt I'm going to listen to this. I can't imagine nine albums I listen to more often than this one. So I'm a fan. I wanted to grow up. I'm actually going to pay attention to the lyrics. You fucking knew. Yeah, it's interesting with Dive because we are in a moment where Shugays is a big

music genre on social media platforms, specifically TikTok. And you have this generation of young people coming up who are rediscovering Shoegays bands of the past. of which were not terribly popular in their time and now are getting huge bumps. And I don't get the sense that that's happened with Dive. They do seem like a band that has translated to a younger generation. I think that they do have an appeal that goes beyond just people that liked them 10 years ago. But they do occupy an interesting place, I think, in that shoegaze ecosystem where they're definitely a known

quantity, but they seem like they're in their own bubble in a way. Like they're big enough where they can open up for Depeche Mode on an arena tour, which they did last year. But I don't know, they seem like they're not getting like the viral type success that some of those bands are getting. Yeah, it's interesting because like you said, like Shugay's is having a tremendous moment. And I don't know if we talked about this last episode of the one before about our boy,

Eli Enis, it's Stereogum. Yes. Or not necessarily, but chasing Sundays. like he listened to the Shugays Now a playlist on Spotify and there's some greats like it spans like a long

amount of time it's got like curve and drop 19s but also like the most generic ass shit imaginable that has like one million followers just based on TikTok and Shugays is like having like a really interesting commercial not necessarily even critical moment

but not even artistic necessarily yeah because like you said a lot of these bands are not very good and it's pretty easy to sound like a shoe gaze band. I mean, if you have the right gear, essentially,

you could be a shoe gaze band and sound okay. But it just feels like a lot of these bands don't really have anything beyond that. Like, they don't really have songs or ideas. No, or swag or personality. It's just about adopting a certain guitar tone

and then you could be a shoegaze band and maybe do well on TikTok. Yeah, like we have like bands that are influenced by Wisp nowadays. But yeah, it's interesting because, like dive, I don't know if they have like a really get are getting a bump because like there's no bands that sound like dive. Like you might get like a billion bands that sound like I don't know, kind of doing that

death tones hum thing that or grunge gaze or what have you. But I think this album, you know, like what I call it shoe gaze. I think the tempos are too, like I always think of like shoe gaze kind of being either like dead halt or kind of more fast. But this to me, it's not quite slow. core. It's not quite dream pop. It's not quite shoegaze. It sounds more like

the Sonic Youth songs that kind of sort of, if you view it from a certain angle, could be shoegaze. But it just sounds like dive. I mean, to me, this album is shoegaze in the same way that, I don't know, like, like how it feels to be something on was emo. You know, they're of that world,

even if they don't bear many of the characteristics of the genre. I think it actually helps dive, or at least the view of this album, that it doesn't sound like the billion of other shoegates bands that are popping up on TikTok, that it doesn't sound like were, you know? Yeah, because I think their secret sauce is they are, you know, it's good songs.

It's not just about atmospherics. Well, they're a band too. I mean, like they're like a full-on band, not like a solo project. Like they, they, this sounds like an album that's been like really worked through. Yeah, and dive to me, they just, they, I'm not saying that they are on the same level as these bands, but they do remind me of like the cure

or like smashing pumpkins, like what those bands had in their prime where it's just like, this is like a real band. There's a consistency to what they do. Albums just hold up to like multiple listens. And I just really appreciate like their place.

I don't know if there are a lot of bands that have been around as long as they have that are just as solid as they are. And they lie under the radar, I think. in a weird way. I mean, I think one thing that hurts dive is just that there was some controversy with the band

early on in their career. Zachary Cole Smith, Sky Ferreira, that whole story. And I think... Basis, that got kicked out for being like a 4-chand. Right. Right. And it just feels like maybe people still have associations

with that with this band. Maybe they don't give them a shot. But I don't know. I think they're a really good band. I love this record a lot. Yeah, I mean, it's just fascinating to see how they've evolved. from like 2000, early 2010's like Kent 285 total scene ban to this, you know, really enduring a project, you know, to writing about like fatherhood and getting clean in politics. I mean, this just shows you that there's hope for any, maybe the dare gets there in 10 years,

you know, like they're in their ocean type phase, but, you know, come, uh, come, uh, 2036, the dare's making their frog in boiling water. Yeah. Well, if we still have an Indycast, if technical problems have not totally sidelined us by that time, maybe we can talk about the dare in 2034. Let's get to our mailbag segment. So great to hear from all of you. Please keep writing us emails.

We need it so we can read it on the show. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Ian, you want to read this letter? Yeah, this is coming to us from Gerard from Durham, North Carolina. with Cindy Lee. Nice. Apple Music is in the process of releasing their top 100 albums list.

So, you know, this boy comes from like about a week ago. A list that has been done many times before for many different publications. Once I saw Exile on Main Street by the Rolling Stones at number 53,

it got me thinking, wherever this album fall in a list of the greatest making of the albums list. The story behind making the album is just as fascinating as the finished product. Rumors comes to mind. Obviously exile on Main Street.

Possibly the Beatles get back. I guess they're talking about let it be more so than get back, but I get where they're coming from. What are some other well-known albums, along with some other albums that only the finest indie castors like yourself would know? So, greatest making of the albums list.

I feel like this is like really your realm. You love the lore. I do. I'm addicted to the lore. I love this question. I mean, Tarar, he hit on some of the big ones already in his email. I think Rumors has to be number one.

Just because the story of that record, it's just intertwined with the music. And really the music is about the making of the record because all the songs are about how they're all doinking each other and how crazy and miserable it is. I mean, one of my favorite songs on Rumors is you make Loving Fun and it's about Christy McVee sleeping with the band's lighting director. And imagine getting fucking cucked by your own lighting director and you're in the band, man. And the thing is, though, John McVee, her soon-to-be-ex-husband, lays down a sick-as-hell baseline on that song, man. Like, he's not phoning it in, even though he must have just been gritting his teeth the entire time.

So, yeah, that's number one for me. I think exile is number two. Stones hanging out in south of France. Just getting blitzed. It's hot as hell in the summertime. They're recording all these, like, sweaty jams. It just seems like it would be the best and the worst place to be. ever. You know, like Graham Parsons is like nodding out next to you. Keith is falling over. It's just unbelievable. I guess I would put the basement tapes in here too, Dylan and the band. I mean, that is a great story. Love that. Maybe that's tied at number two. At number three, I'm going to put Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. And, you know, we know that because of the movie. I'm trying to break your heart. But just all,

Jeff Tweedy versus Jeff versus Jay Bennett's stuff. I mean, it's fascinating. That's at number three. And I'm going to put, this is a little bit of a curveball, but I want to put Wildflowers by Tom Petty at number four because it's the opposite of these other ones. It's just pure good vibes. It's just Tom Petty hanging out with Rick Rubin in the studio for like two years,

making a bunch of songs. He's loving the process. It's just like a clubhouse. They're all laughing, making jokes. seems like a great vibe. So that would be my, I guess that's five albums, but it's four spots. What would you put?

Like, what did I miss? I mean, I guess I have like a pretty narrow conception, like a very raucous conception of what like a great making of the album is because I think if Get Back taught us anything, it's that the majority of album, like the majority of albums, even the great ones, like the story behind them is like kind of boring. whereas I think I'm going to like create a list

where like making a great album is actually optional which is why I think be here now has to be in that list. Oh, of course. Of course. I can't believe I didn't put that on my list. Yes. Yeah.

I'm really stealing the, I'm really stealing the thunder here because look, I think a great making of the album. And you allude to this before you threw in wildflowers that you have to get like a bunch of people who like kind of sort of hate each other and are like just taking a show.

shitloaded drugs. And I'm just so disappointed that the Oasis documentary Super Sonic fails mention anything about be here now. It cuts up right before they go over the studio. I'm thinking of like corn doing a bunch of meth with, uh, but like, I think that movie ends when they're playing like Glastonbury for like five straight times or something like that. Yeah, exactly. They cut it off before the, you get to one of the best parts of the story. It's real shame. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, I'm thinking of like corn making their self-title, like doing a bunch of meth and like a Malibu ranch with Ross Robinson and making his first album. Um, White Pony, I think the deaf tones, like, lived in the house where they made rumors, or they were on, they were like hanging out in Saucolito and playing Tony Hawk Pro Skater for hours.

Yeah, that just made me think of like nine inch nails making the downward spiral in the house where Sharon Tate got murdered. That's like a somewhat thing. That's, I don't think he played any Tony Hawk in that house at the time, but it's a similar vibe. It wasn't made yet. They probably, whatever, I'm trying to think of like whatever video games were popping in 93. You know, maybe Trent Reson was playing NHL 93 on Genesis. this. But I think my dark, beautiful, twisted fantasy, it's so hard to think about, like, in 2024, an album by Kanye West being like a good time. But, you know, they were all out

in Hawaii and you got, like, Justin Vernon and Charlie Wilson and Push a T all hanging out together. That's a good one. Yeah. There's a riot going on because, like, you had a Slice stone. Apparently, the rumor is that he'd have, like, his groupies, like, do tracks and he'd have sex with them and just erase their tapes. Yeah, that's brilliant. I was just going to say with Kanye, like, Yeezis is another one, like, where Rick Rubin came in at the last minute and, like, basically rearranged the record. And that's what ended up coming out and working. Like, it just seemed like the greatest save in history. I don't know if, like, the rest of the making of that record was interesting, but that's, like, the best, like, one week or however long it was portion of making a record.

Yeah, I love that one. And also, I think we just got to give a shout to Steve Albini who passed away. I would love to guess get a making of attack on memory because quite nothing's to push back on this story where Steve Balbini said, yeah, basically just like played Scrabble online during the recording process. So I'd love to get the split screen of like those guys just like laying down this like searing indie rock where like the producers just like kind of checked out on their phone. Yeah, like what's the most boring making of album story? maybe that should be a list because that could be up there on that list perhaps yeah I'm thinking

I don't know like uh I don't even know what that would be probably like I'd probably like I don't know I want to say like a national album but like nah you got two brothers in there they're fucking beefing I'm not even gonna say that yeah that I feel like all their albums they're like gonna break up

I feel like that's like the narrative of every album for the national is like well we almost broke up up making this I was gonna say maybe like angles by the strokes like the the rest of the strokes just waiting for Julian Casablancus to show up and he never does. He just like, you know, faxes his vocals to the studio. That sounds awesome. That's true.

All right. We now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right. So we're going to bring up perpetual Indicat's favorite here, young Jesus. They have a new album out today called The Fool. And, you know, I guess it says a lot that I kind of forget that they released an album in 2022.

There's been so many good bands who have released their first, or have announced their first albums in a long time. You know, Ben Saritan, Sinai Vessel, Los Campesinos. And I felt like Young Jesus was part of that. But they released an album called Shepardhead in 2022, which honestly I don't have much memory of. And the guy who made it was also not a huge fan of it, John Rossiter, not to be confused. with Wild Pink's John Ross was so burnt out on music. By that point, they were, like, dedicating their time to gardening. But then they got the itch to create again, and the result is just a really wild record.

You know, it's sometimes the first song kind of sounds like born in the USA, inspired heartland rock, but then there are parts that kind of sound like Benji, where it's like these six-minute rambling narratives about, you know, coming from great generational wealth. other times it sounds like anony or radiohead. But what I love about this record is that, you know, if you listen to Young Jesus in the past, they'd have these like 15-minute jams about like philosophy and, you know, the cosmos.

But now it's John just laying it all out there and speaking directly about his family and what it's like being a musician. It's a very fearless record. An acquired taste, you know, like all young Jesus sounds, but I feel like the people who like this album are really going to like it. So this is going to be like one of those, you know,

when Up Rocks does their end of the year list. It's like the people who vote for this album, it's going to be like top three or not at all. Yeah, I'm still digging into this record. This album hasn't really grabbed me yet, but I've seen people rave about it and you're encouraging me to die back into this album this weekend. So I think I'll do that.

Definitely like their previous stuff. His change in vocal style has been a little difficult for me. It's very croonery now. and I don't love it, but I don't know. Hopefully it'll be an acquired taste for me, so we'll see what happens. I want to talk about a band called

From Indian Lakes. They put on a record, this was like a couple weeks ago called Head Void that I've been really enjoying this week. And this is a band that got their start in the aughts. And they originated in like the emo

post-hardcore world. And they took a path that a lot of bands I feel like in that period took where they went from being more of an emo band, and then they drifted into like a shoegaze direction over the course of the 2010s. And it's been a bit of a break since their most recent record.

It's five years since the last one. But I feel like this record in a way kind of splits a difference between like an emo sound and a shoegaze sound where you definitely have like the shoe gaze-y type guitar tones. But I feel like the songs are like actually like very melodic and very zippy.

And this album just moves very well for me in a weird way I pair it with the Dive record in my mind I think those records have a very similar aesthetic this album is not as grandiose as the Dive record it's a little closer

to the ground maybe more of like a basement show version of what Dive does but again I love the guitar tones on the record I think the songs are really good this is just like a really good album and I assume this is also on your radar Ian

Oh absolutely you could not be more right and that like I was like pleasantly surprised that uh you had this on the outline before I did I'm big fan of this project um and you're right in that it's kind of like a associate dive uh but I would recommend like I I didn't get into their earlier stuff they were kind of in that like not just emo post hardcore but kind of quasi religious like kind of quasi Christian world where like Copeland exists. But I would recommend if you like this, 2016, everything feels better now. It's kind of more like wavy R&B, but I know how that sounds, but it does it really, really well. Very overlooked album. But yeah, I like how this one goes more

in a harder shoot-gay's direction. It's also a shorter. I like their album for 2019. That was also like an hour long. So yeah, big recommendation. This is a dual indie cast recommendation cornered thumbs up. Well, yes, the double bang, as Mike Green would say. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news, reviews, and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Tate Newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week,

and we'll send it directly to your email box.