Indiecast - Beyoncé vs. Harry Styles Grammys Furor, Plus: Steve Albini + Yo La Tengo

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

It's early February, which means that the annual post-Grammys furor arrived on schedule this week. At issue was Harry Styles beating out Beyonce for Album Of The Year, a turn of events that might end up being the worst thing to ever happen to Styles. Has the hunky British pop star just been Timberlake-ized? What does it mean to be Timberlake-ized anyway? Let's hash it out (:25).Here's something Indiecast did not expect this week: Steve Albini talking about how much he hates Steely Dan! But that's exactly what the irascible indie legend did on Twitter, which sparked a lot of conversation both for and against the '70s jazz-rock institution (15:17).Finally, Steve and Ian talked about a band that we can all agree is great: Yo La Tengo (39:28). The trio is back with another album this week, This Stupid World, and it's one of their best efforts in years. They discussed what makes the new album good and offered suggestions for newbies on where to start with the band's big and impressive discography.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 125 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indicast is presented by Uprocks's Indie Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndieCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review the new album by Yola Tango. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I can't believe he beat Beyonce for Album of the Year. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? I can't believe it either. You know, this sort of thing doesn't happen to people like me very often. So, you know, I'm hoping that the Indycast listener, you know, if you're a Jewish, if you're a Jewish guy from the East Coast, you know, I hope you see my achievements and think, you know, maybe I can also make it in this crazy music industry, you know, our people have been shut out for too long. You know, I know what Harry Stiles meant when he said that in his accepted speech, you know, this doesn't happen to people like me. I think he was talking about working class people from England. because we all know that there is there's no history of working class people from England

going on to become big music stars. There's no history of that at all. A weird self-inflicted, or I should say unforced error by Harry Stiles, I feel like he has marketed himself or his people have marketed him so well. And for him to not know how that would play in the room is kind of amazing to me.

I guess you win the Grammy. You're sort of blown away. You yourself can't believe that you beat Beyonce. I don't know. He just maybe lost himself there for a moment. Yeah. I mean, also, like, let's consider the fact that he spent, what, 15 straight days headlining Madison Square Garden.

So, you know, I'll allow the possibility that you might kind of lose a sense of what reality is outside of like a Harry style show. Right. Yeah. Look, I've got a little monologue on this, so if you can bear with me here, because for those who have not been paying attention this week, there was

controversy as there always is after the Grammys where Harry Stiles won for album of the year for his album Harry's house, and Beyonce didn't win for her record renaissance. And we go through this thing,

every year where the person that the internet wants to win doesn't win this award whether it's Beyonce who this has happened to a couple of times Kendrick Lamar Frank Ocean and people go temporarily insane

and they mistakenly believe that the Grammys are a paragon of rewarding quality and music you know as if like they've just now suddenly gone against that whereas, you know, they do this every year. Yeah. You know, the Grammys are obviously stupid.

You know, we're not taking the Grammy seriously by talking about it. Although it should be noted that they're not irrelevant. You know, I see people say, like, well, it doesn't matter who wins a Grammy or who's nominated for a Grammy. And that's not really true. I mean, for instance, if you were a turnstile fan, the fact that they were nominated for a Grammy, that's good for a turnstile. You know, it doesn't mean that they're a great band because they were nominated, but it means that they're probably going to get played on the radio more. Probably means that their next album will have more promotional support from the label.

You know, what I think it means for turnstiles, like, this is just like the first step. Like in 2035, when they're just like basically at a level of, I don't know, like metallic or ghost or just like putting out these whack-ass records, hopefully that doesn't happen. But that's when they're going to win a grand. Yeah, they'll start cleaning up at that point. I have to say, too, that, you know, we're used to stand armies overreacting over nothing when things like this happen. But I have to say that Beyonce not winning the award for Album of the Year is strange. And Strange might be too nice of a word for it.

There's only been three black women that have ever won album of the year. year, like in 60-some years at the Grammys. And you think that the kind of people that typically win that award, you know, there are people who are usually very successful, the Taylor Swifts, the Adels of the world. Beyonce is certainly in that company. And then you factor in all the other things about, you know, having pop culture impact, having critical acclaim. She checks all the boxes. She is the most awarded artist in Grammy history.

And look, I'm not saying she's an underdog, as she has been described. Like, the New York Times had a tweet saying that she's an underdog heading into the Grammy. She's not an underdog. But it is hard to look at that and not conclude that there's some sort of weird

bias against black women in that category. I don't know how you can't conclude that when there's so few black women that have won that award. And yet, black women are some of the most prominent musicians of, like, the last several decades. It's just very strange.

Who won them? I think Lauren Hill won. Yeah, that makes sense. You're putting me on the spot. I don't know all. I think Warren Hill might be, like, the last one. Yeah. Did the bodyguard soundtrack win?

That, I think, that might have won. I saw a stat this week that only, like, three black women in history. I don't think Aretha Franklin won an award, or Tina Turner might have won an award at some point for that, like private dancer era. But of course, it's not Harry Stalz's fault that this happened. Like, he didn't decide that he was going to win this award over Beyonce. But I do think this is maybe the worst thing that could have happened to him. You know, and I'm going to contradict myself here a little bit where I said earlier that winning a Grammy or being nominated for Grammy is. relevant. It can help you. I think it's more helpful for a band like turnstile that's up and

coming, whereas an artist like Harry Stiles, he's already on top of the music industry. I don't know how much more help he needs. I think in terms of his image in the press, the sense you got this week is that the honeymoon period with him is over. You saw the knives come out against Harry styles in a way that I haven't seen before now. You know, I've been critical of him in the past. I think he makes boring music. I think that he has this ability to, it's like a magic trick where he can trick people into thinking that he's not a normy middle of the road straight white male pop star.

Like people somehow project this subversive gender norm challenge. queer image onto him, even though he seems to be, to me, a very handsome man who dates actresses and models, you know, which is what Normie, middle of the road, straight white male pop stars do. But that ended this week. You know, you saw outlets that were very nice to him in the past, all of a sudden talk about how boring his music is. And it just made me think of Justin Timberlake.

Do you remember how in the 2000s? At least you said Justin Timberlake and not MacLamore. I mean, like, yeah, if you had to choose one of the two routes where, like, things just take a serious term because you won a Grammy. But yeah, I definitely. Well, it's not just the Grammy with Timberlake. Yeah. I mean, it was, because in the 2000s, like, he was the first guy, I think, that really benefited from, like, the pop-domism takeover of music writing. Like, people really wanted to make a point of liking.

Justin Timberlake because he was a boy band guy and he's the kind of person who wasn't critically acclaimed for a long time. And then it turned on him and it's tempting to say that the Super Bowl thing with Janet Jackson did it. But that was no way. Yeah, but that wasn't true in the moment. But like now people look back on that as this terrible thing and he's really become the villain of that. But like, but like you read like, have you looked at the pitchfork review of the 2020 experience? That was, it was really good, right? 8.4, best new music. Yeah, I was writing for them back then. I got to confuse with the 2006 one. That was really a, that was like a real turning point in the history. Future sex love sounds, which is like a, that's the one. Talk about album

titles that have not aged well. Future sex love sounds. But anyway, I mean, I just feel like he's been Timberlake-eyed at this point. Like Harry Stiles, I wonder if this is the turning point where he's villainized a little bit, you know, because he hasn't had that before now. It seemed like the turn this week on him. I would say maybe the operative term here is a little bit because, you know, with Justin Timberlake, you know, I think Justin Timberlake has always been like kind of more of like a straight up entertainer.

Like, you know, he is from Mickey Mouse Club. He's always been just kind of like very, very straightforward. And also like, you know, I think acting and all these other things were just like the natural off rant for Justin Timber. Like I see a future where I saw a future where Justin Timber like really doesn't make music anymore. And I don't think that's the case for Harry Styles. I also think that, you know, recent times has proven like the resiliency of certain Stan

armies. He's like I feel like there's a possibility that we're just completely missing the other side of the equation where there's just this massive amount of people who are super stoked for Harry Styles winning a Grammy album of the year award. Because, you know, like Harry's house was the exact, like even the people who were praising Harry Styles all along would say, this guy is like genetically engineered to make a Grammy album of the year award regardless of the competition. And so, you know, I think it's, you know, bad for now, look. I mean, he was kind of out of bad night before he won that

award. Like, I saw the as-it-was performance and, like, I mean, dude made Joe Biden look like fucking Mick Jagger two nights from there, man. Like, he was just, he was like night-quilled up out there. I just think that, I mean, you're right, there are people that are very happy about him

winning that award, but I feel like it was muted because of how he won. Like, he's now... Or just who he won against. Like, if he had beaten, say, Taylor Swift, if he had beaten, say, Adele. but you know like the the thing that like we can expect from the Grammys aside from like you know

the dumbest possible winner of the medal awards is that if you beat Beyonce and anything you gotta apologize for that well you don't want to become the figurehead for white guys being rewarded over like black women that maybe deserve the award more than you you know like if you are the poster boy for that

that's like a terrible thing to be And I think for someone like him, who I think has really been a master at playing to what people on the internet like, you know, this is a violation of that. You know, I feel, again, like, this is going to be something that sticks with him in the same way that we talk about Beck winning over Beyonce in 2015 for that album that no one remembers now, you know, like that singer, songwriter record. And even like with Beck, and I wouldn't make this argument myself, but you could make the argument that him winning that award was like Al Pacino winning an Oscar for Centiable Woman. You know, it's like, well, we should have given it to him for the godfather, but this is like a makeup award.

You know, maybe there's people out there who are like, well, O'Doway should have won a Grammy in 1996. So let's give it to him for one of his sad guy singer-songwriter records. But, like, Harry Stiles doesn't have that argument. He's not a legacy artist, you know, and... Is he, though? I mean, I think, like, when we talk... I don't think...

I mean, when we talk about... I mean, not compared to Beyonce. I mean, like... Okay, well, yeah. I mean, as a solo artist, I mean, are you going to count the one direction era of him, of his legacy? Like, I don't know. That, to me, would be a stretch to call him a legacy artist.

Well, I mean, weirdly, like, weirdly enough, I think of, like, Billy I It's like a legacy artist for the Grammys now. Because like when you think about like deserving to win the award, I think we have to think of it like, okay, like there's the artistic argument and then there's deserving the win the award, like which album is designed to like win a Grammy award and deservedly do so. And I think that, I mean, when you look at like even the way these albums were praised in real time, like Harry's house was like this big, you know, centrist pop music moment. You know, there's some Beatles, there's some Rolling Stones, there's some Elton John.

Whereas, you know, Renaissance is this, you know, radical political statement about marginalized dance cultures. Like, I mean, you think it's that way. But it's a pretty accessible record. And she's been around for a long time and she hasn't won the award. I think it checks every box for an album that would have and probably should have won the award. because it does have the artistic side, which we always downplay with the Grammys, because it doesn't seem to matter if an album's actually great or not,

if it's going to win this award. But it has the artistic thing going on. It has the critical thing going on. It has the pop culture aspect going on. Again, and I keep saying the word strange. That is probably too nice of a word. I just think it's odd that an album like that wouldn't win that award. Because, yeah, Harry Styles, it is ingenious.

to win that, but not more than the Beyonce record, I don't think. There's definitely, I mean, I think these controversies can be trumped up, but in this case, I actually think there's something to it. And so, I don't know, we'll see what happens with that. We spend a lot of time on the Grammy. We have a lot of banter this week. I feel like our, we do have a lot of banter. Our banter is going way over.

I don't even know if we're going to have time for a mailbag. We'll have to see. We'll see how we're going. because we have to talk about Steve Albini this week. Let's move to more comfortable indie rock territory here. I don't know. I mean, Beyonce won every album of the year

just about every indie rock website. So I think we're firmly within the scope of indie rock. That's true. Anyway, Steve Albini, in the news this week because he went on Twitter and he posted a thread about how much he hates Steely Dan. And for whatever reason,

I feel like every three or four months, someone does this thread where they just talk about how much they hate Steely Dan and it always goes viral. Like, the last one I remember was that weird art critic from New York magazine, Jerry Saltz. Is he the coffee guy?

Yeah, he's the coffee guy. Okay, like, I know that name, but like I definitely know him from some sort of meme and I'm like wait he's the guy who has like 18 cups of like gas station coffee right yeah and and he had another thread once where he talked about how he never cooks and he took a photo of his stove and there were like books in his stove or something like he I don't know okay he's an odd guy but anyway he had a steely Dan rant once but now Steve Albini did it and um I got an I got on this action too if I may say I had a viral response to him.

And it's all in good fun. I said that you're a 60-year-old poker player from the Midwest. You're more Steely Dan than punk at this point. Because I should say, I buried the lead. The first tweet in his tweet thread where he said, I'm the kind of punk who still shits on Steely Dan. Which I thought, because people were like, well, why are you surprised that he doesn't like Steely Dan?

It's like, I'm not surprised that he doesn't like Donald Fagan. and Walter Becker, I just think the framing of I'm the kind of punk who does this and you're a 60-year-old man. I just find that inherently comedic. So that's what I was making fun of in my... Because if you look at him on paper, a 60-year-old poker player from the Midwest and he knew nothing else about Steve Albini, would you guess that person like Steely Dan or not like Steely Dan? I would guess that they like Steely Dan. He's almost like a character in a Steely Dan song at this.

point. He just has to move to L.A. and start dealing cocaine. Then he could be a song on Gaucho. Yeah. But the great thing about this is that it really usurped the Grammy conversation, because it happened on Monday. And in my feet, anyway, it was all like Steely Dan, Steve Albini talk. Right in our wheelhouse. Yeah. I think that we're just kind of dying for content here. I think February tends to be like kind of a low month anyway unless it's like Super Bowl week. But I think we just have to like focus on the fact that Steve Albini said, I'm the kind of punk who.

Like unless you're like if you're a 60 year old guy, like unless you're doing a bit or like you're one of those like social distortion people like covered in sailor Jerry tattoos, like you should not be saying I'm the kind of punk who. Like that should not be the thing you identify with as. the most. You know, that like, like, I'm just, I thought Steve Albini was kind of above that sort of thing. But, you know, the fact that it's like Steely Dan, I think we have to just remember the fact that, you know, regardless of like who Steve Albini is as like a, you know, legendary producer, legendary poker player or what have you, you know, one thing I found to be true in arguments about

bands or artists or whatever on social media is that I'd estimate like 85 to 90% of the time when someone is doing that they're actually sort of talking about people who like that artist as opposed to the artist themselves it's just kind of a way to launder hey like it's easier to say I'm the kind of punk who shits on Steely Dan as opposed to

I'm the kind of punk who finds Steely Dan fans to be annoying and like look if you listen to Steve Albin these productions with, you know, like bands like Cloud Nothings or The Pixies or PJ Harvey or just his general persona. I mean, he sounds, he's the kind of guy who probably heard a lot of Steely Dan albums and hung out with Steely Dan people and thought, I want my music to sound the exact fucking opposite of that. And you know what?

You know, good for him on that. But, you know, I think the response to Steve Albini almost justified him in a way. because I'm, like, really disappointed at, like, how I'm going to frame this comparison. But the response to him for the, like, the earnest response to him, not like yours, you know, just having a joke. But it reminded me of, like, 2017 resistance Twitter where, like, people, like, you know, Donald Trump would say, like, you know, the Chinese are poisoning or hamburger supply. And, like, they'll say, like, good, sir, that is three Pinocchio's or just some shit like that.

And then people would be like, well, actually, Steve, you know, they make this very technically proficient, pristine music, but it belies the seamy underbelly, which is actually quite punk, sir. And, like, I'm sure Steve Albini was reminded of, like, every single conversation he had about gaucho in, like, 1978 that drove him up a fucking wall. Yeah, I will say that I'm sympathetic to that argument that they are punker than punk bands, but I wouldn't make that to Steve Albini because it's like talking to a wall. How do you feel about Steve Albini as a poster?

Because he's been pretty active lately. Yeah. And, you know, I think he's online friends with the Eve Six guy. And there's something similar to how Albini posts, like where he'll either do these sort of sassy pop culture posts. You know, and I feel like he usually tweets about bands that he has. hates. He had a similar tweet thread about the Grateful Dead. Like, shocks. Steve Albini hates the Grateful Dead.

And he made all the same jokes about the Grateful Dead that everyone makes. Just like he made all the same jokes about Steely Dan that everyone makes. So either does that or else he does these like really earnest, like political, like tweet threads. Like he'll tweet. Like I feel like he retweets members of the squad a lot. You know, like AOC and people like that. which is a very 60-year-old poker player from the Midwest type thing to do.

I don't know. It's like we just lost David Crosby, you know, rest in peace. And I wonder if Steve Albini is now poised to take over the Crosby role where, like, younger people may not even know his music. They just know him as like a grumpy old guy on Twitter.

Like, is that going to be Steve Albini's legacy for like zoomers and whoever comes after the zoomers. I think that like David Crosby was like a real one to the end, whereas Steve Albini is like, I think he's like just trying to, if not like, rebrand himself, just maybe soften his image as like, you know, the guy who wrote, uh, what was that article about like urge overkill and Liz Phair, like three pandering sluts and their music stooge or their music press stooge or whatever. Right, right.

I think he's like trying to like mellow out and like, I mean, him and, the Eve 6 guy, and I know that guy's name is Max Collins. Like, I'm not going to pretend. Like, I don't know who this dude is. But, yeah, I don't know if he's going to embrace that role. I think there's a part of him that wants to be liked more than, you know, than David Crosby does. And, but, I mean, I think that the argument with this whole thing to me isn't whether or not, like, Steely Dan is whack or, like, you know, their music itself. I think it became like a bigger platform to talk about, you know, whether or not Steve Albini had earned the right to shit on Steely Dan. Like some people are like, oh, he produced the pixies. So he's earned the right.

Or like, well, you know, if I produced Razorblaze suitcase, I'd keep my mouth shut. Like, hating on stuff is a God-given right. Like, I think that this past week, you know, whether it was like Harry Stiles or Monoskin or Steely Dan's, it was a real referendum on like, you know, hating on shit being like a fundamental right of being online. And, you know, I, I don't think that we have to look at like his discogs record to see whether or not, like, Steely Dan, or whether Steve Albini can, like, hate a band he grew up with. And, you know, like, the fan base, it can be kind of annoying. That's like any fan base, but, you know, like, Steve, hate on, but, like, own it. You know what I mean? Like, don't walk it back. Yeah, no, it was. It was,

was great. Like I said, I appreciated how he usurped a lot of Grammy conversation this week by making fun of Steely Dan. And it does speak to the fandom of Steely Dan, which you would not have expected, you know, 10 years ago that there would be so many people

that would care, one way or the other that Steve Albany doesn't like Steely Dan. It was a great thing. It was good. He talked shit. I got to talk some shit. Other people talk shit. It was a great stress reliever. So I give it two thumbs up. That whole discourse was great.

Got to talk to you about something I wrote this week, Ian. I don't know if you saw this, but I wrote a column about Oasis, as I am prone to do from time to time. Yeah, I was about to say. And I feel like it's relevant to our show because, as listeners may remember, we did a predictions episode a few weeks ago. One of my predictions, and the prediction I was least confident about was that I said that OASIS was going to announce a reunion to her this year that would most likely take place next year for the 30th anniversary of definitely maybe.

And funnily enough, there's been some things that have happened in the past month that actually make me feel like this prediction might come true. And I just want to run down this list a little bit and get your take on this. Number one, Noel Gallagher announced in January that he's getting a divorce. He announced that he's getting a divorce. So he's going to need money. So you have that. The day after that was announced,

Noel went on the radio in England, I think it was BBC Manchester. And he said, never say never regarding an oasis reunion. And this is relevant because the guy who has said never regarding an oasis reunion has been Noel Gallagher. So now he's saying never say never, which means that in some way he's negotiating the terms.

Because he said, like, it's going to take an extraordinary set of circumstances, but never say never. So that's the second thing. The third thing, Liam Gallagher, the day after that interview ran, tweeted that Noel called him up, and this is a quote, begging for forgiveness. Now, I don't take that tweet at face value. I think he's probably full of shit.

But I do like to think that maybe, maybe they did actually go to a pub and drink some pints and had a moment and maybe that's going to pay off later on. And then the fourth thing is that their mom, Peggy, just turned 80. And according to the British tabloids, she has wished that they could reconcile, that Liam and Noel can reconcile.

She's getting up there in age. You know, who knows how many years she has left, she would like to see them get back together. And how can you refuse your elderly mom who raised you after your... your father abandoned you. So I don't know. I feel like this could happen.

Am I delusional? Or do I have reason to be hopeful here? You're leaving out like the, you're like really burying the lead because I feel like the one spark that set this off more than anything was just a classic Maddie Healy interview where he, I learned the term marting. Yes. I mean, apparently this, I thought this was like a word. He was just like making up on the spot or just this new bit of British slang.

but apparently you can trace it back to, you know, the first Arctic Monkees album. I thought Marty Bum was the name of a guy. Oh, yeah, Marty. Yeah, because Marty, it means like you are like whining or, you know, sort of, yeah, like moaning. Yes. So, yeah.

I did not know. I didn't know that either. I didn't remember that Arctic Monkey song. Yeah. Yeah, classic. Classic. But, you know, the fact is, when when Maddie was going off about like

Noel's high flying birds, I think I've got that name right. Yes. I mean, this makes me think that Noel like firmly believes that high flying birds is as good as Oasis, which also perhaps means that

if you were to go back to make like, you know, having Oasis reunion shows, they might focus on the newer stuff or what have you. No. The big closing song is like the Hindu times or whatever. No, they wouldn't do that. They know, they wouldn't, I mean, they wouldn't focus on.

They wouldn't focus on that. I think, because again, like in my scenario, it's a definitely maybe 30th anniversary reunion. So I think they'd play a lot of that record. You know, they would play a lot of the second record, B-sides. Like when you see, because I've seen them both. solo and they play the hits in between in between like their new

I did not know that like whatever new album they're promoting they'll play but it's sort of like new song slide away new song Wonderwall new song you know it's like that so I yeah they're not going to be pulling that if they get back together

it's not to play the Hindu times you know it's they're definitely going to play the Hindu times it's the place I've never even heard that song by the way it's actually a good song but like they're going to play slide away in Wembley Stadium and it's going to be amazing. Okay, so that is what they're going to do.

I don't know. If you read the British press, like they're covering this very closely. Like, like, I haven't seen much. I wouldn't expect any less. I haven't seen much writing about it here. You know, like when I was putting together my column, I was like, I wonder, has anyone noticed these tweets? I haven't really seen Rolling Stone or pitchfork or stereo gum or spin, whoever.

No one's really covering this. But like in England, obviously, they're like, there was a tweet that Liam Gallagher had last weekend because he had hip surgery because he's 50 years old. And he said, the comeback is real in one of his tweets. And like all of these British newspapers put, The Comeback is Real in the headline, you know, implying that this applies to Oasis and not just Liam Gallagher walking around. Like that's what that tweet is really about. So we'll see. That guy, that's a guy who really needs to be nimble on stage on comeback. You know, like the legendarily animated live act oasis.

Well, he's got the walk, though. He's got that cool Liam Gallagher walk. So it does come in handy. Can I, can I bring up the one thing that, like, struck me about your article more than anything? What's that? Is that apparently Noel's wife doesn't like Oasis or Noel's ex-wife doesn't like Oasis. Yeah, according to Liam. Liam said that, which again,

take it with a grain of salt. But yeah, it is funny if that's true. That you would marry the man who makes music you don't like. I mean, that's a pretty amazing thing to me. Yeah, just like you would think that, yo, I'm in fucking Oasis would be the leverage to win like any sort of power struggle in the home and just have that de-diffused by like, yeah, your like last. 20 years of music was shit. I don't know what that must be like. I know what it's like, you know, when my wife gets the,

oh my God, you're going to tweet about that face. But like to be, yeah, your beloved band by billions, yeah, that does not mean shit to me. I mean, God, that's just got to be devastating. Yeah, it's tough being the spouse of a prolific poster, you know, because I have a similar experience. You know, you're out in public and all of a sudden, you're on your phone posting, and the spouse is just like, why?

Why? It's like, because I've got a posting rep to maintain here. You know, you don't understand. Like, this is how I put food on the table. I've got to post. You cannot deny the muse when it comes to you. You know what I mean? Like, who am I to deny the muse of posting when I see this sign that I can easily flip

into like a joke about like Wu-Tang or whatever? If there's one thing we don't do on Indycan, is we don't deny the muse, whether it's inspiration or the band. Either way, we welcome them in. So, man, we are way over the meat limit here. Are we though? Yeah, we are. This is like tapas, man.

Like, you just got, like, we're bringing like substantial appetizers. People are getting, you know, people are getting nourished. Yeah, they are. I think we've got to cut the mailbag, though. We're going to carry over our mailbag question to next week. I also, I wanted to do a quick sports cast with you. I don't know if we have time for that or if we should get to Yolatanga, because we have the Super Bowl coming up.

I think Yolatango would want us to talk about sports. Let's do a quick sports cast here, and then we'll get back to Indycast. I have to bring this up, and I feel like this is going to anger some of our listeners, and I apologize for this in advance. But I have to talk about, you know, Eagles versus Chiefs, and what's happening to Philadelphia right now as a sports center? city because I feel like I have mixed feelings about Philadelphia right now. Like I love the city itself.

Like I've been there. Really enjoyed it. I really want to get back. It's a really cool town. But as a sports town, like you're kind of on the verge of becoming Boston. I just have to say this. The Go Birds thing this week, you know, it started out. It's kind of cute.

I enjoy the enthusiasm of Eagles fans. I'm a little tired of it now. Eagles fans, I'm sorry, it's a little much. It's different because when was the last time you were in the Super Bowl? Like five years ago? Yeah, it was the 2017, like it was the 2018 Super Bowl following the 2017 season. Second Super Bowl in five years. You were just in the World Series.

The Sixers are really good. It's different when you're like the underdog compared to New York and Boston. But like Philly now is like kind of the best sports city. and I'm just saying, I say this with love, because I love Philadelphia, you guys are getting a little much. It's getting a little much. And if you win the Super Bowl,

you might be the New Boston, i.e., the sports city that everyone else hates. And I say this too. I've always had like a, like, I'm saying this as a Packer fan, so like my feelings about the Eagles are, they're already mixed because of fourth and 26, like the worst sports moment.

First down, Freddie, Fred X, baby. The worst sports moment of my life. So I already have like some anti-Eagles energy because of that. But I don't know. How do you feel about this? Am I off base? Not at all.

Like I'm just like, I'm like kind of breathing like knowing like, yeah, you're probably kind of right. Now let me just be like abundantly clear that as we're recording, like this is the night, this is the day after the Sixers despite the Celtics. like losing all their best players, still lost to the Celtics. So the Celtics completely owning the Sixers. The Phillies won a World Series in like 2008 and that's like the only one they've won in like the past, gosh, since 19. So as long as I've been born. You were just in the World Series though. Yes, they were just in and lost. Similarly, the Sixers always get drummed out like in the second round. The Flyers have been bad as long as I could possibly remember.

members. So the thing about like Eagles fan, like Eagles perhaps like yeah, I could see that being kind of annoying. Like it is the most central, uh, team to the city's identity. That, that's true. And, uh, I, look, I don't see us becoming like Patriots level because, you know, I don't, I'm going to like go on a limb here and say that like Philadelphia sports fandom isn't as, you know, isn't as like predicated on this like vague. sense of like white pride as Boston sports fandom is. And similarly, if you're like, you're neutral about who choose to root for in the Super Bowl, you know, only one of these teams has like a racist chant.

And the Eagles isn't one of them. Oh, man. That's true. They're still doing the fucking Tomahawk chop or whatever it's called. But yeah, I mean, I think with the Eagles, like, yeah, again, this is almost like the Steely Dan argument because, like, on a face level, like, this isn't like those joyless ass Patriots teams where it's like, you know, Tom Brady winning five suit roles, but still like being presenting himself as like an underdog and these like super annoying, like gritty gamer

white wide receivers or whatever. It's like, or you're rooting for like Bill Belichick. Nah, the Eagles are swaggy. They're like top to bottom of great team. They got fun players. Like Jalen Hertz is charismatic as fuck. But. Well, how do you feel about your coach?

Like, Siriani seems like a buffoon to me. He just seems like a dude. I don't have strong opinions about him. Like, I like Andy Reid. I've always liked that guy. Yeah. Because he has a lot of strong opinions about cheeseburgers. But I think the Eagles, it's like you can say the, you know, and both these teams are fun as fuck.

Like none of these teams are like doing a believable, no one believed in us narrative. But, you know, with the Eagles, like I think you can, like Steely Dan or like any band like we talk about on the internet. You could say that the actual on-the-field product is like really fun and easy to root for, but the fans kind of make it annoying. I don't like, I think Philadelphia in and of a whole, like the other teams are just too noticeably unsuccessful on a big level to ever become like Boston or New York. Well, okay, but you're saying we have to get the Yolata Tango, but I have to check you on the historically unsuccessful. Your baseball team was just in the World Series, and I know you lost. And lost. Okay, but like, yeah, but like how hard is it to get to a World Series?

I mean, are we going to say they're unsuccessful because they didn't win the World Series against the, like, a historically great team? I mean, come on. And they're going to be in the running next year. I don't know. I'm just saying, I'm just saying it's a possibility if you win the Super Bowl that the rest of the country might start hating your city. That's all I'm saying. I think it.

I think that was, I think that's like kind of always been the case. We'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. But, you know, good luck to the Eagles. Good luck to the Chiefs. We got to get to the meet. This is like the latest meat that we've delivered, maybe in the history of Indiecast.

And it's a shame because we're talking about an historically great indie rock band in this episode. And it's Yola Tango. They have a new album that's out today. It's called This Stupid World. And I'm going to make a bold and brave proclamation. this is a really good indie rock record this album from Yola Tango, a band that we...

A regular Steve Albini over here. Yeah, it's yet another very good Yola Tango album. And I'll say, you know, this is a band that you've heard of and you haven't really listened to. This is a record that I think actually would be a very good introduction

to what they do, because with Yolatango historically, you have this combination of like really good and understated songcraft on one hand and then on the other hand this sort of like improvisational viby ambient atmospheric side you know that has like a lot of elements of like

almost like free jazz or like you know jam band type music and you get both of those elements on this record and I think it's a really good balance I mean I think some of their more recent records I'm thinking of like there's a riot going on which came out in 2018 was more on that sort of, again, improvisational side, not as song-oriented. This, I think, kind of brings back the song-oriented elements that you get from classic Yolatango records in the 90s, like painful. And I can hear the heart beating is one.

And it just really shows that this band, they've really, I think, mastered what they've done in a way that doesn't feel tired. And I'm curious to get your take on this record and also the band's overall legacy because I feel like this is a band that you would be inclined not to like. Just because there's something about them that is so consistent

and everyone likes it, there's no deaf tones element to what they do. Is this band too music critic-e for you? Or do you even, enjoy Yola Tango. Well, for our listener who might not be totally well versed in, you know, how

music critic E this band is, I mean, I think that Steve's absolutely right in that they are, like, if you like, if you consider yourself like an indie rock fan, like not like in the sense of like the history of indie rock, not like Spotify, all new indie type indie,

I don't think there's any possible way that you can't like Yola Teng go, you know, not just because, you know, they represent such a large swath of its history and, you know, its emergence from, like, post, you know, like post Velvet Underground and Galaxy 500 or whatever. But, like, for one thing, you know, the band, like, the two main songwriters are, like, married, like, seemly happily married. They were, like, also music critics, right? I know, I think Ira Kaplan was a music writer. He was. I'm not sure. sure about Georgia, but I know he was a music writer

before the band. Okay. So they got that. You know, they make like Simpsons jokes. They're clearly into sports. You know, they make like very high brow but also like pop culture references. You know, they put out records like very consistently and they're always very good and they're never, they've never like it took them like five albums or so to get going so they never were like overly hyped

nor they like the band any given time. So you like put that all together and it's like impossible to dislike them, which kind of reflexively makes me like kind of want to find a way to do so. Just, you know, just being contrarian and all that. But like, you know, I can't even front. Like I like this band a lot. You know, I like this band. I don't like love them to a degree that I think that maybe people older than myself do. you know like the first album that got me into them was oddly enough and then nothing turned itself and nothing turned itself inside out that is a burn off like win amp or like get from scoured.com and like you know burn to a CD classic of 2000 along with kid A yeah um I think that's kind of an anomaly right that album

well yeah I was going to say like why do you think it's odd that that got because I feel like that's one of their cornerstone albums. Like that album, I can hear the heart beating is one, which comes out in 1997. And then Painful, which is 93. I think that those, like, that's the big three of Yolaito. Yeah, I think that like, you know, just kind of given my tastes in general, like nothing turned itself inside out is like the one notorious for like having only one rock song, Cherry Chapstick, which kind of fucking rules.

but I would say that like, you know, a lot of like what makes Yolotango click is this idea of like them being these like endlessly curious musicians and, you know, and I think I can hear the heart beating as one is like the, like if you got to choose one, that's the one. But that one never really resonated with me. I feel like it's stylistic range. It strikes me as being kind of like dated in a way in the same way that like Beck's albums feel a bit. dated. But yeah, I generally like the slower, more shoegaze-y, like slow core Yolotango. Like, I like on Painful, the first big day coming as opposed to like the loud one. But with this new record, I mean, hot take, Yolotango, done it again. And I think it does so in a way that feels a little bit more urgent than the albums that had come out since, let's say, you know, since nothing turned its inside out. Like every, you know, every time they put out a record, whether it was like, you know, I'm not afraid of you. I can beat your ass or popular songs or the one from 13 or 18. Like, they're always like good and they're beloved and don't seem to make as much of an impact,

you know, as say, you know, their imperial phase. But, you know, they make me, like, I think maybe this one seems to have a bit more juice behind it. And I'm curious. why you might think that is. Well, I, again, I'll go back to what I said before, where I think that it melds the two sides of what they do in a way that a lot of their recent records haven't. Like, there's a riot going on was their Trump era record. And instead of making a sort of outwardly angry record, it was very interior. And that's what a lot of their records have been like lately. They're more abstract and more leaning into like the spacey side of what they do. You know, you mentioned, albums like popular songs, which from the title, you could tell, is more of like maybe like a song-oriented record. And you said, you mentioned I can hear the heart beating as one earlier as being like having the stylistic range. And that's why that record is popular. And I love that record too. And I think that this album, this new album feels a bit like that record in that it just showcases all these different aspects of what this band can do.

the difference with this stupid world is that it's a shorter record. I think it's only about 45 minutes and there's like nine songs. Which again is why I think that if you're new to this band, this actually would be a good introduction because it shows the range of what this band is capable of, but it's a pretty bite-sized package. It really flows well, even though there are songs on this record that go the six, seven minutes. There are some noisier songs. that are, again, leaning into the abstract side of what the band does,

but there are also like a lot of really tuneful songs. Like one of my favorite songs on the record is Fallout, which sounds like a classic, painful style song. You know, it just shows that they're still capable of doing that. One thing I think is interesting with this band is the broader conversation that you can have about whether it's better to have a career where, everything is consistent and everything is strong and worthy or a career where there's big highs and low lows

and it's not as consistent but like you're going to hit a home run sometimes and the other times you're going to strike out because I think like with 90s bands like the 90s indie rock bands that would be peers of Yolatango you know you can look at a band like pavement for instance who I think does have higher peaks than Yolatango but they have much fewer albums they don't have as long of a career

they don't have the breadth of Yolatango I think you'd say the same thing about Built the Spill and Bill The Spill's been around actually and they put out a record last year and I think that their highs are probably higher than Yola tangos but their lows I think are lower they've made records that are pretty forgettable over the years and I'm curious like what's your take on that

Because I have to say that I tend to prefer artists that have highs and lows. Because I just think failures are interesting. You know, like my favorite artist of all time is Bob Dylan. And he has lots of valleys in his career. And sometimes the valleys are more fun to revisit than the peaks. But with Yoa Tango, if you're going to assess them in terms of their consistency, like they're probably the best 90s indie band. But if you apply the other standard,

they're not, you know, like, because they do, because they have great albums, but like, I don't think they have the peaks of some of their peers, if that makes sense. Yeah, for like a band that, you know, named themselves after, you know, a baseball term, like Ilya O' Chacon on the Mets back in the day, I think it's fair to bring in a baseball comparison. Like, I, I think of them in the night, in terms of, like, 90s indie rock bands being like kind of like Hank Aaron. Like, you know, Hank Aaron, obviously famously, uh, was the home run leader. Uh, But, like, you look at him from, I did look this up, from 1955 to 1973, like for 18 straight years, he never hit more than 47 home runs and never less than 27. And he was, like, always healthy.

But, you know, you think of Hank Aaron as, like, the most prolific home run hitter. But I can't think of any real, like, transcendent season that he had, you know. Whereas you look at the people around him, like A-Rod or Ken Griffey or, you know, Mark McGuire or what have. you and it's like yeah there were some years where like they you know were complete dog shit but there are also like those memories of like seeing them in their prime and you know even like I guess you would call like imperial phase um you know Yolotanga now look I like and nothing turned itself inside out more than any sonic youth or any pavement album or any flaming lips album for that matter but I get where you're coming from and that you know they were never that band at that time and

you know I think that we don't have to like really choose between like what whether it's better to have like a career with like, you know, wild peaks and valleys or like consistency. Like we can have both. Like, you know, of course we can have both. But I'm just saying like, just in your own mind with artists that you like, do you like it? Because I think with Yola Tango, they aren't, like, when we talk about like the best indie bands,

they're always in the conversation, but they're never the first band, you know? No, not at all. Like pavement is usually the first band that people talk about, even though you can, look at Yola Tango and be like, they have like three times as many albums as pavement, which means that they have probably three times as many good to great albums as pavement. Right. But we look at Pavement as being the quintessential band because they just signify something

about that decade in a way this band doesn't. And it does seem like, because I mean, the other band that you can bring up in this conversation is Spoon, you know, because people always talk about Spoon in a similar way that, you know, Spoon was never like the number one. band, but they're always like the fourth or fifth band, you know, and they're obviously great. But it is interesting how the less consistent bands tend to be more attractive to people. It seems to be like that is what draws you in sometimes more than the one who's just reliably delivering all the time. And it is sort of an interesting thing, I think. Oh, absolutely.

I mean, I just, I think what, if I, if I had to choose between like another, you know, four star 8.1 type Yolotango album in like 20, 25 or like a complete dog shit bomb Yolotango record, I would take the latter. You know, just to spice things up a bit. Like, I would love to see. I'm told that like Summer's Sun is kind of like the dud yolot tango album. I think it's like kind of pleasant. But yeah, I would love to just hear like what a bad Yoletango song or album would be like, just so I have like something to base it on. Yeah, I mean, yeah, or if they, but they just seem incapable of doing that. And I think that there's just something about the way they make music where it feels like they're a real band, you know. Absolutely. Or it's not just like one person who's obviously in control and then you have a supporting. cast. I mean, I don't get the feeling that Ira Kaplan is like the dictator of that band and like, you know, the other two are just supporting him. I mean, they really feel like a real unit.

Yeah, I mean, again, I think that this is a band where obviously their 90s material, I think, is the place to start if you want to revisit this catalog or if you want to investigate it. I think the 90s in particular, like that run of albums is really strong. We should mention that they actually predate the 90s. I mean, they started putting out records in the 80s. So, but I don't think of them as like an 80s indie band. They didn't really, you know, Painful was like their sixth album and that was like the first one that like people really rallied around, right? Yeah, I mean, there were a few records like, like fake book came out in 90. I feel like that is like their first really strong record. And then in the 90s, it's just from one strength of the other. I think since then

still consistent, maybe a little spotier. But you mentioned, like, I'm not afraid of you and I will beat your ass. Like, that I think is a quite strong record. I think that came out in 06. I got to say, I feel like the new album, the Stupid World, is probably my favorite since that album. I am afraid of you. Because, again, that's another instance of them working in that I can hear the heart beating as one mode where you've got a lot of different kinds of songs.

But again, the stupid world is like a shorter record than I am afraid of you. Like that's another sprawling, you know, sort of throwing everything against the wall type album. So anyway, yeah, I'd say check out the 90s albums in particular painful. I can hear the heart beating is one and everything turn itself out. Those three, I'm not afraid of you. Get that in there as well. And then the new record. I think that's a good five album starter kit.

for getting into this band. Do you think the younger people, like, you know, people who are, like, in their 20s, like, right now are, like, listening to Olatango. Like, I'm very, like, obviously, this is an exciting development for, like, people our age, but I'm wondering, like, if they have, like, any sort of, like, penetration into, like,

the younger indie cast listening market. You know, there's something about this band that is just timelessly indie rock, where if, if that's a sound that you, you're interested in, that you can go back to that band and they don't sound as 90s as like a lot of their contemporaries. You know, I think the only reason why people might not do that is that they don't have the celebrity, again, of like pavement, Sonic Youth, even like built a spill. You know, I feel like they're like a little less well known than those groups. But again, if you

haven't listened to this band, there's a big discography to explore. And as we keep saying, it's very consistent. There's like a lot of really good album. So hopefully this record will be a skeleton key for that catalog. And, you know, I'm happy for you because you're about to enjoy

a lot of great music. You've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, want to go first? All right, so this week over at Brock's, we published in interview that I did with Mike and Nate Kinsella, their new project called Lies. Now, the Kinsella name, obviously, it rings bells around here because, you know, those two

most recently were collaborating in American football. Nate is a recent addition to the band playing vibraphone, Glock and Spiel, all sorts of instruments. And this out, they've been releasing a couple songs at a time since, gosh, I want to say like last year. And this Wednesday, announced the release of their self-titled new album. These songs devolved from what was supposed to be American Football LP4, which was going to be a pretty significant departure from the two reunion albums, a lot more synthy, a lot more samples. You know, as it turns out, you know, four guys in their 40s trying to make an album on Zoom.

Not particularly easy to do, so they reduce it to a duo. and now it is, you know, half of this album is already out. It's like 12 songs, six have already been released. And, you know, if you, like, heard American football and thought, like, man, I'd love to hear Mike's voice over some booming synth pop. This is for you. Frankly, this is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to hear from, you know, Mike and Nate Concello right now. You know, I'm, you know, Owen, American football, very consistent bands. You know what you're going to get.

but this one takes things and it just reminds me of that time I saw American football open for churches in this one-off in L.A. So if that concept like really resonates with you, I think this new album will as well. It comes out late in March, but once again, half of it's already out there. So, yeah, and read the interview as well. Love talking to those guys. So the album I want to talk about is called Norm. And it's by a Canadian singer-songwriter named Andy Schoff. And I've talked about him, I think, on this show before. I actually interviewed him a couple years ago when he put on a record called The Neon Skyline, which is a really great record. And Andy is known as this literary songwriter, like the kind of guy who you listen to his records

and he's going to tell you a story, not just in one song, but often over the course of an entire record. And he's really become one of the leading practitioners of that style of songwriting. So if you're into the classic singer-songwriters, Randy Newman, Paul Simon, people like that, this guy is carrying on that tradition, I think, in a very strong way. Another thing that's interesting about Andy Schafe is that he records his own records. And if you've listened to him, he's really great at like capturing the warmth of drum sounds, guitar sounds, bass sounds that you love from like those classic 60s and 70s records. Like oftentimes when you hear music that's trying to replicate that,

it has a sort of plastic quality, you know, like where it just sounds like someone opened a kit and all these Austin Powers type affectations came out. that's not true on his albums. They really feel organic and they have a very welcoming vibe to them that sucks you into the lyrics and really allows you to appreciate. Again, this is just the storytelling that's going on. So this record, again, it's another winner from him. It's called Norm. And again, if you haven't listened to Andy Schoff, and his last name is spelled S-H-A-U-F, if you're going to search for him on streaming platforms. Again, his records really hanged together in a way that is unique,

and he's a real songwriting talent. So definitely check out that album. Yeah, The magician, that one from 2016. Big fan of that one. Yes, and yeah, lots of good records in his background. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations,

sign up for the Indie Mixape newsletter. You can go to Uprocks.com. backslash indie and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.