Indiecast - Big Questions: Are Music Festivals Cooked? Was 2014 A Good Music Year? Will Steven Ever Win A Fantasy Albums Draft?

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

Steven and Ian begin this week's episode with the first ever "Furnace-cast" about the current state of Steven's heating and cooling units at his house. Both were being installed during this episode, which might have resulted in some post-punk-style background noise. What's more indie rock than that? After a quick Sportscast about the latest from Steven's Green Bay Packers and Ian's Philadelphia Eagles, they hold their Fantasy Albums Draft for Q4 (15:22). Will Steven finally win one of these? Probably not! But who knows?Then the guys delve into the mailbag to answer some quality emails. Topics include the sad state of music festivals in 2024 (31:55), the relative quality of music put out in 2014 (41:05), and whether it's possible to have a good song with good music and bad lyrics (yes!) or bad music and good lyrics (maybe?) (50:17).In Recommendation Corner, Ian stumps for a divorce record by Adeline Hotel and Steven goes for the latest from bluegrass phenom Billy Strings (56:40).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 208 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On the show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about music festivals dying, the best music year ever, and other topics from our listeners. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. If he hears banging in the background, that's just me making a post-punk album, Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? Yeah, we're, you know, we're very, we're in our like this heat phase.

You know, we've done our populace thing for a long time, but now we're just going to upend expectations, you know, we're sort of like Christian McCaffrey going to Germany for surgery. We're in our Berlin era. Yeah, I should just say that the reason I bring that up is that I'm having a new furnace and air conditioner unit installed in my house right now. And I'm downstairs. I'm like maybe 10 feet away from where people are working. So if you hear banging in the background, it's because of that.

I apologize. Hopefully this is not too upsetting for the Indycast listener. I just have to say, like, as a homeowner, you know, getting a new furnace and AC unit, one of the most important purchases you have to make. Also, like, one of the most boring. You know, it's like that very fun thing. And it costs a bundle. It's like a ton of money.

So I know you're still renting, Ian. Do you hope? No, no. Oh, you bought? Yeah. I've lived in the same place we bought in late 2020. The only possible time for people like us. Like we definitely can't afford the place.

If we were like buying now, we definitely couldn't afford the place that we live in now. We just bought it a very good time. But yeah, a furnace, oddly enough, not something we need to really be concerned about much here in San Diego. The AC unit, though. Look, man, we're just going to let that thing rock and rattle until it does. dies out. So, uh, you know, it died.

Apparently there's like a refrigerant or something that. Existed in like 2001 when this thing was put in and now it doesn't exist anymore. So, uh, our, our AC was like leaking for a couple weeks. We had to put doggy pads around it. You know, the pads you put down when your dogs wet in the house from when our, uh, our late pug passed away last year.

Uh, So, yeah, it was like being a parent. Again, you had to change the diapers of the air conditioning unit for a few weeks there. But the new one's being put in right now. So that's all good. Very unseasonably warm here in the Midwest. It's like hitting 80 pretty much every day here lately. Pretty humid.

So unfortunately still need that AC here in late September. This is our first homeowner cast. We've never had homeowner cast before. For some reason, I forgot that you purchased. So look at us. We can talk about lawn care and, you know, drywall projects and other things of that nature. Yeah, I installed a new faucet a few weeks ago. And like, I don't think I've ever felt any more pride as like not just like a man, but like a human being that like I watched a bunch of YouTube videos like kind of tutorials.

I mean, it's a seriously easy project. But nonetheless, like I do get it. now with like, you know, homeowner fix it people, people who just like spend time in Hope Depot looking at shit like it's a record store, you know, you're just flipping through vinyl literally. I get that now. Yeah. It's a, when you can do those very easy tasks around your house, it does make you feel

masculine in a way that the world does not really allow you to feel anymore. I mean, there's not a lot of things that you can do, at least for like guys like us who are But, you know, working in offices, you know, the real men out there who are building things and fixing things, working as auto mechanics in exploiting people like me who know nothing about cars. You know, they feel like men. We don't really get to feel like men. You have to do these sort of menial tasks around the house that aren't that hard, but they seem hard. Yes. So, yeah, you take that wherever you can get it.

Can we do a quick sports cast here? Just very quick. I just want to give a shout out to all the people out there who, like me, are enjoying the Malik Willis era of the Green Bay Packers. Last two weeks, two and oh with Malik Willis. Coming back from the dead, really. And this has been an incredible year in the NFL so far. You have all these quarterbacks who were punchlines for a long time. Just having great years.

You got Sam Darnold in Minnesota. You got like Baker Mayfield. Didn't do as well this week, but he's having, you know, extended run doing really well. The Red Rifle, Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton coming back from the dead and resurrecting the Carolina Panthers. But I'm a Packer fan and, you know, I'm really excited about Malik Willis and I think I tweeted this after the game on Sunday that Matt LaFleur, Green Bay Packers coach, I think he's like Rick

Rubin and Malik Willis is like the chili peppers in 91. You know, like people were like, chili peppers are a joke. they're just like this wacky funk band from L.A. They're never going to make a great record. Then Rick Rubin enters the picture. And all of a sudden you have like under the bridge and, you know, the rest of blood sugar sax magic. So yeah,

I'm giving Matt LaFleur, Rick Rubin status in the NFL right now. I think it's been a pretty incredible thing that he's achieved here. Does that mean like Malik Willis in the Tennessee Titans era is like his, I don't know, uplift mofo party plan? Yeah, right. Is Matt Vrabble?

like the George Clinton in this metaphor. Yeah, that's, I suppose he is. It's not a perfect metaphor because I actually think Mother's Milk is a good record, the one before, Blitzhigger, but. It's not as fun to say his uplift mofo party plan. Right, exactly. And also, you know, to say like, well, Metlifloor is Michael, like, Bynhorn. You know, it doesn't really work.

It's not as funny. It's funnier to say Rick Rubin. So it works in that way. your eagles after a terrible loss to atlanta you guys come back you beat new orleans who looks pretty good this year yeah yeah not even like remote like i am certainly not like happy about the way that turned out i think they like doubled their yardage and still somehow one by three like you're just worried that like they're about to go up by you know they're got they're like on the four yard line like oh sirean's going to kick a field goal here like i just have no trust in the

integrity of the vibes on this team. Yeah, well, you don't have AJ Brown, so I think that's affecting your offense. But hey, it's Philly season. It's San Diego Padre season. Like, I'm going to ride that shit out until I have to care about the Eagles again. Yeah. So you're still paying attention to baseball. You're right or die with baseball.

Yeah, well, I mean, right or die in the sense that, like, hey, it gives me something to talk about at work that isn't reality TV. But, like, last night it was super cool. the Padres clenched on a game-ending triple play. Wow. Against the Dodgers. Yeah, that was pretty fucking cool. It is crazy that Shohay Otani had maybe the best game ever for a baseball player.

He had like three home runs, 10 RBI, two steals, a couple. And it was kind of a big deal, but not really. You know, like people kind of cared, but it just shows where baseball is at because he should be the a star in America right now. Like if baseball was where it was at, even in the 90s, Shohei would just be a phenomenon. But I don't know. It's just baseball is such a regional game now.

People don't care. I don't know. Not an original observation. But it is what it is. Okay, let's end sports cast right there. We don't need to talk about like why baseball is being marginalized in the culture. By the time this episode posts, we're recording on Wednesday a day earlier than we normally do because on Thursday I'm driving to Madison to go see the National and the War on

Drugs. They're doing their tour together. The Zen Diagram Tour, they're calling it. And I'm excited, of course. I mean, I love both bands. I actually saw them play together 12 years ago at the Beacon Theater back in, yeah, was that 2012? Actually, that might have been 11, actually. So that's 13 years ago. And it's interesting because when the tour was announced, the impression I had, and maybe I was wrong, but I feel like a lot of people maybe thought this, was that it was a co-headlining tour. And it's not quite that. Like the War on Drugs, they're playing like a longer set for an opener. It's like a 75-minute set. But it's like a national show with the War on Drugs opening. and I think that makes sense

because it just I think in my mind and maybe in the minds of like a lot of people who like these bands because like if you like one band you probably like the other although maybe that's

maybe that's not as much the case now actually I mean maybe that's why the National's headlining because the National has had this influx of swifties into the fan base which has really changed I think the dynamic at these shows I feel like the National used to be called like a dude

band. And if you're making that joke in 2024, I think you're a little behind the times because the Aaron Desner entering the Taylor Swift orbit, I think that's really changed the demographics for this band. I was talking with a friend of mine who saw them,

who saw this tour in New York, and he was like, it's totally a national audience. Like, the war on drugs, I think they were sort of well received, but like, you could tell that, at least based on what my friend was saying, that people were there for the National. And I think their audience has really changed, like, in the last maybe three or four

years. So that'll be interesting to see. I will have already seen it by the time this post, but at the time that recording, I haven't seen it yet. So I don't know, I'm curious to see, like, what the audience is like. Yeah, I mean, I think people still just kind of as a, you know, a reflex will make the, you know, look at the dudes. But I mean, people have been saying this about the national for, like, got, like, as long as they've been a thing. And, you know, the crowd's always been at least like 50-50. But yeah, like, I mean, war on drugs is just like, I think, generally speaking, like, kind of a, oh, that's a really cool, like, kind of one-b type, you know, opening act.

But, yeah, I mean, I haven't seen the National since, I want to say, like, the Sleepwell Beast tour. Like, it was so long ago the Phoebe Bridgers opened. Yeah, this is like 17, 18 year. And, like, I mean, you would know better than I, especially, as you said, you know, for the previous. it like the first few pages of Frankenstein, the stuff sounded really good live. Like, what's the national like live nowadays? Because I know they're kind of operating if like in the same way that they're now

like Swifty, not even adjacent, like part of the Swifty universe. Like they're kind of always been like jam adjacent. Like do the songs breathe? I mean, in the same way that like live drugs again does. Yeah, I mean, I saw them in 2022 when I was reported. on my Barty's Strange profile. I went out to Utah, and I saw them. Wow.

And I thought they were great. You know, again, the national, I think the people who don't like the national, I think this is something everyone says about any band, but I think if you see them live, it's a much different experience. It's always much more energetic and raw and just more rock and roll than their records are. And that's true, even as their records have gotten quieter. over the years. So yeah, I mean, I think I'm expecting them to put on a great show, the War on Drugs. I saw them last in 2022 as well. They're just a great live band and I'm excited to see them.

I'm a little disappointed that it's not a co-headlining show, but at the same time we're talking about if it was a co-headlining show, they'd probably be playing what, like an hour and 40 minutes, hour and 45. So it's not like dramatically shorter or anything. So it'll be good. I'm excited to see it. Maybe I'll talk about it next week, do a little scene report, talk about what the crowd was like. I'm curious if there's going to be friendship bracelets being passed around by the audience. I mean, the national, that band more than any other band I can think of, of like, recent vintage, has really had several different iterations in terms of their fan base. And maybe it's just because I've seen them live a lot of times.

But, you know, you had, like I saw them in the 2000s, and obviously that was box. or an alligator and for national fans of our age that's like the prime era of the band but then you see them in 2010s and um high violet really changed the fan base I think like that became the record that the majority of the audience would care about and you know it got to the point where they would play songs like you know city middle and the audience really wouldn't care you know I saw shows like that like dropping like alligator deep cuts that are beloved by the old heads. The new audience certainly really care about.

And then you have this post-Sleepwell Beast audience, which is rolled up into the Taylor Swift audience. That's like another generation of fans. So I don't know. It just speaks to the endurance of that group that they've had signature records in different eras. And, you know, I think you and I are on the same page. I'm not crazy about the post-Sleepwell Beast records.

You know, the last three that they put out are by far probably my least favorite that they've ever done. but live, I think they're still reliable to bring it. Yeah, and maybe, I don't know, like fingers crossed next year, we get the 20th anniversary alligator tour, we get Padma back on stage, like, wow, not on the violin. Like, I would pay any amount of money for that, because, God, they were so fucking good.

Yeah, I mean, they're still good, but like that era, damn, like. Yeah, I know. That was it. But again, that's like something, that's like ancient history. Some of these people weren't even born when that record came out, which is crazy to say, but it's true. And the one album you didn't meant is that Trouble Will Find Me. That was, for like a certain audience, like, that's the one.

Yeah, I mean, I love that record, too. I was rolling that together with High Violet, I guess, in the mind. But yeah, definitely. Like, I feel like at early 2010's, I don't think of Trouble Will Find Me as a separate era. I think of it as like with High Violet. Like, people that came on board with High Violet, then there's Trouble Will Find Me. But at any rate, many different eras of that band. They could do their own Aeros Tour.

Maybe. Perform a chunk of each record live. We're not going to do something. We have a big mailbag today and lots of good emails from our listeners to get to. But before we get to that, we're going to torture me here with our quarter four fantasy draft, drafting albums based on their Metacritic score, what we think the Metacritic score will be for albums, in October through the end of the year. And I'm still looking for my first win. I'm the Carolina Panthers of fantasy drafts. I'm terrible.

And I don't feel great about this draft. I don't know how you feel. Like I was looking at what's up for grabs. And quarter four is always a weird time because December is basically a non-starter. So you're really just looking at two months. And it's not a deep field. or am I wrong?

It's, yeah, it's kind of weird. There is, I have my picks and, I mean, it's not like I'm going to pick like some like French reissue of like, you know, like Lewis or something like that. But yeah, I definitely have to go out a bit on a limb for some of these records. So, yeah, maybe this kind of evens the score. I mean, I think it's worth reiterating that we're not even tallying. the final score from Q2, from Q3 anymore. Like, I think the Sophie album comes out this week, and it's got, it seemingly got no momentum whatsoever.

Yeah, I got, I got wiped out. And I actually felt pretty good about the quarter three draft, and it was the biggest disaster I've ever had. So, I mean, I don't think this is a deep field. I also don't have a lot of confidence in picking winners. So I'm dealing with, you know, multiple problems here. I do feel like this quarter that having like a mid-70s score album is not going to be a disaster. Like we're probably going to have a couple of those because I just don't think there's like, I don't know there's like any slam dunks that I saw.

I think I got a few. Okay, I saw a couple that I feel pretty good about. But nothing, you know, that you were just, you know, nothing like like an MJ Lenderman or something where you just knew that was going to do really well. There's nothing like that here. But I don't know what you're going to pick. That's the deal. Usually in like previous quarters, I'm like, okay, Steve's definitely going to pick this one. I can get ahead of the game.

Like, I don't know what you've got on your short list. So this is going to be interesting. I think there's one kind of obvious one for me, but, you know, we'll see. So should we flip a coin here? Because we'll do the snake draft. Like the first pick, you take one. Second pick, you take two. Then the next person takes two.

and then we just kind of go back and forth like that. So that makes sense? I guess so. I think someone told us we did a snake giraffe wrong last time, but. I think we're doing it right this time. I think that's the way to do it. I'm going to ask you to keep track of where the snake's at. So should we flip a coin here?

Yeah. Okay, I'm flipping the coin. Okay. I'm flipping it. Okay. What do you call? Heads. All right.

It's heads. All right. So do you want to go first or do you want to take two second? I'll take the two second. Okay, see, that's the smart play. Okay, so I'm going one. Okay, I'm going to go with soccer, Mommy, as number one. Her record, let me just look this up quick,

comes out on October 25th. It's called Evergreen. I was looking up her metacritic scores historically. She's generally getting, like, low to mid-80s on all of her records. I just feel like she's in that, lane now where, unless she just makes a total bomb, that she's going to probably get into the 80s. So I feel pretty confident that that will, I mean, I haven't heard this record at all. I haven't heard any buzz on it. I don't know if this is like her defining record or just an okay

record, but I feel like either way, she's at least going to get low 80s. So I feel confident that she's going to deliver for me. Yeah, I mean, I've heard the record. I mean, I do think that, you know like it's it's weird the albums where like i kind of doubted your logic on that front like you know luminaughties or whatever or like fay webster um yeah those do turn out for the low 80s so i think that's a solid pick um as far as me my first pick is going to be mount eerie night palace um i feel like that like phil alverum like just that that person's money and also this album is supposedly kind of a follow-up to the glow part two which is you know his most revered work maybe a crow looked at me but yeah i feel like this one uh it's got novelty on its side

plus it's got the old heads i feel like this is a you know this is a gimmy uh pick um and number two i'm going to go with this one i feel really good about this one blood incantation absolute elsewhere this is a metal pick i know their last out album was, you know, like one of those metal albums that like, you know, five places review and they all think it's like the greatest shit ever. You know, I know it's not my type of metal, but, you know, I think worst case scenario, this is like, I don't know, deaf heaven new Bermuda type performance. You know, maybe it's not the one that did so well a few years back, but I feel good about

this one. So that's the one where you're relying on like five. people reviewing it and it's the blood incantation person like the metal guy and staff that reviews everything yeah this is like it's everything i can ate this is like token uh this is like token uh this is like token 8.8 number 32 on pitch for a list metal all right that's a good one good good pick um for my second pick i'm gonna go i'm i'm gonna do a little gamesmanship here and this can backfire pretty easily but you know we've got a lot of British publications on Metacritic and a lot of sort of random European publications on Metacritic.

So I was thinking like, what is a British artist that is very well reviewed and will probably get good reviews from those publications? So I'm going with Michael Kiwanaka at number two. I just feel like if you look at his Metacritic scores, he's very well reviewed. And I feel like the English press in particular might drop like a couple 100s on that record. So I'm going with him at number two. And his record comes out in November, November 15th. It's called Small Changes. Yeah, I mean, like, look, it's, I think that will do well.

It's kind of like picking like, you know, like a Leon Bridges. It's very Obama core, you know? Right, right. So I think that one's a solid choice. Oh, no, I got one more pick. Oh, you do. Right, right. I get two picks.

And I'm going to go with Father John Misty as my next pick. Masashana, his record comes out November 22nd. You know, we talk about Father John Misty being this polarizing artist, but if you look at his Metacritic scores, very consistent in the 80s. He goes from like lower 80s to like upper 80s, like all the time. Like even his last record, 82 on Metacritic. And I actually feel like this record has some return to form energy to it. And he feels like an artist where,

you know, he's been around for a long time, he's been consistent, and I think he's outlived some of the negative vibes about him. And this is a record that delivers, I think, a lot of the things that people like about him. So yeah, I'm banking on it being well received. So I think he's good for like a low to mid-80s. All right. So I think that's a, yeah, it's a solid choice. Because like, you know, when we get in the weeds, you know, I think this is true with Soccer her mommy as well. We forget like just how positive most of the music press is to everything.

So for me, I might regret this. And I even wonder if it's eligible. But I just want to make this fun. Can I pick Charlie X, the X, G, Brat, and it's the same, but there's three more songs. No. Okay, fine.

No, that's not the same as like re-recording, like Taylor Swift re-recording a record. That's just like reissuing a record that's already come out. I don't even know if that will be reviewed. That's what I was wondering. I don't think it would be reviewed necessarily as a record. Like, I don't think it'd be like rescored by websites.

Yeah, I was also thinking it could possibly be like the kind of a dumping site for like whatever backlash people want from it. Like before, you know, it gets in the year end list and it, you know, ranks number one everywhere else. So, okay, yeah. Well, I'm okay with that. In the meantime, I feel pretty good about this next pick. I'm going with Godspeed, you black emperor's new album, and the title of it is, I need to look it up. No title as of 13 February 24, 28,340 dead. Godspeed, you black emperor, very reliable band.

You know what they do. Obviously, I think the title might endear it to people. I mean, their last two albums haven't been as highly reviewed. but you know, I feel like, I feel pretty confident that this won't get below like an 84. So Mount Erie, Blood Incentation, Gatsby, you Black Emperor, all very accessible albums I'm going with. So what is your next one? All right. So I'm going to look up the name of it because I don't quite know it off top.

But yeah, this is an artist who put out a very well-reviewed album in 2020. one called Urban Driftwood. Name is Yasmin Williams, kind of a finger style, an instrumental guitarist, but there's some vocals on it. And her new album, Acadia, comes out.

I believe next week, October 4th. Like, I got a lot of shit coming out on October 4th. So, Yasmin Williams, Akadia, just, I feel like this is going to build on the acclaim from the previous record, Urban Driftwood,

which, you know, like, it was kind of a low-key, word of mouth success. It's on non-such now. There's, yeah, I feel like this is also a slam dunk. Yeah, I like her last record. This is another one where it's going to be one person on staff who's really into it, like the aquarium drunkard adjacent writer who's going to be into it and will be inclined

to review it positively. So, yeah, that's a good pick. I like that one. So, okay, so I've got three. I'm going to do two here and then you'll do your last. last one after this. I'm going to go with Laura Marling. Fuck.

As my next one. That was going to be mine. And, you know, I was actually just looking at her Metacritic score. She, uh, this is really good value for a number four pick, I have to say, because her Metacritic scores are very strong. Uh, her last record, which was song for our daughter, came out in 2020. Got an 88 on Metacritic. And just looking at her other records, again, like Father John Misty, just generally always

in the 80s. Her record, by the way, is called Patterns and Repeat. It comes out October 25th. I just feel really good about it. I think, again, unless it's a terrible record, I think people will be inclined to rubber stamp an eight on that album. So I feel good about that one. And then for my last pick,

so I've got a lot of other records here that I was looking at. I'm going to go with Kim Deal. in this slot. She has a solo record comes out November 26. 22nd, excuse me, called Nobody Loves You More. Is this her first solo record?

Probably not. No, it is. It's her debut solo record. So, I don't know. I just feel like the breeders have had a lot of goodwill in recent years.

And it's that rule. I think this is one of the safer best. That's for us when you have like the middle-aged female artist who was in a band and does a solo record. Like you had the woman from Portishead. I don't know. Was that last quarter? Beth Gibbons. I think that was cute too.

And that did very well. I feel like this could do similar numbers to that. I just feel like people, they love the breeders, they love Kim Diel. No one's going to want to pan this album, you know. So I feel good about it. So I'm going to go with that as my last pick. Good. That was on my list, too, for almost the exact same reasons.

That felt like a kind of a good last round flyer. But yeah, now I'm mad. I didn't pick Laura Marling number one. I feel like, ah, Steve maybe doesn't know this one's coming out. But, yeah, she is going to be probably both of ours highest score. So for my last pick, I'm down to two. And like, I'm one. I'm wondering if I should go the Yasmin Williams route of like, you know, picking something that was a little underplay last time.

Maybe this one will be the beneficiary of it or go for something fun. I'm going to go with chat pile. I'm going to go with the less fun one. Their new album, Cool World, comes out October 11th. I think the people who liked the last album are going to like this one. And I think that they're just going to be the beneficiary. Jerry of, you know, this is kind of like, oh, we didn't review this the last time around, but now, yeah, we're going to do that.

Like, we're going to, like, kind of do a makeup call. So does that complete our draft? It does, yeah. My other pick was, and I thought this one was a little too volatile, was Georgie Grip. Hmm. Right. Yeah, that's a big. High volatility.

Right. Yeah, that could definitely be like a mid-year. five or it could be like a nine could go either way it's funny neither one of us took the smile the smile has another album i just feel like that has mid-sevenths written all over it no matter how good it is i think people are like because i i really like the smile but it's just so funny that radio head has not made a record in what eight years and the smile has made three albums in the last you know two years and it's almost like two years and it's almost like two years much music at this point for, I think, a lot of people.

So I think certainly critics. I mean, people love Wall of Eyes. That was the first record that came out this year. But I just feel like this album, when you put out two albums in a year, the second album always suffers critically. It's very rare for that second record to do as well. I think Big Thief. Yeah, I was about to say two hands did, but that even still, like, slightly less than, you

know, UFOF. Right. So let's go over our lineups here. Ian has Mount Erie, Blood Incentation, Godspeed you Black Emperor, Yasmin Williams, and Chatpile, and I have Soccer Mommy, Michael Kiwanaka, Father John Misty, Laura Marling, and Kim Deal. So you're definitely going for fringier artists, and I'm going for more sort of big indie artists. Yeah, it's a real clash of styles here. I like that. Right. I'm going, yeah, you're kind of going for like the scrappy players.

Yeah. And I'm, and I'm just signing like big teams. ticket-free agents. Yeah, this is like, I'm like running the triple option and like you're doing like a USC pro-style offense. Well, I was thinking like, you're like the 0-4 Pistons and I'm like the O4 Lakers. I like that one better, yeah. The Laker, like with Calm Alone and the glove and that lineup of the Lakers. Hopefully I'll have more success than they did.

I feel pretty good about this draft. I don't know, but that's always like famous last words for me. All right, let's get to our mailbag segment. We have a bigger mailbag today because we just had so many good emails and we want to get to them. Thank you all for writing in. It's always great to hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Ian, you want to read this first email?

Yes, I do. So this comes from Matt from San Fran. Do people from San Francisco say San Fran? I thought that was like an ATL sort of thing where it's like, oh, nobody calls it that if you actually live here. I think this is a deep Indycast reference because we had that thing recently where I was talking about the 49ers and I kept calling it San Fran and then some listeners complained about it so then I just doubled down on calling it San Fran. So I think our listener here is doing a little tip cap. Apparently he knows references better than you do Ian. He's more of a student of Indicast than even one of our co-hosts.

So thank you for that. I assume you're doing that. Maybe you're not. But I feel like that's probably a deep. Indycast ref there. Yeah, if that's the case, I love it, man. Either way, guys, I'm not really asking you that question, the question being, are music festivals dying?

That's the question. But Matt is curious on what your take is on the decline of music festival attendance that's resulted in a number of admittedly smaller festivals going dark this year. There is an NPR article on the subject, and one industry insider suggests that streaming services algorithms are part of culprit, channeling people into narrow bands of music styles. They don't know enough artists to want to attend a multi-genre music festival. Another point is that it's generational.

Teenagers and 20-somethings are much more digitally oriented and less inclined to want to participate in large cloud events. I think it's about the oversaturation of the festival market as exacerbated by the fact that every artist has been touring like crazy to make up for the pandemic years. What say you, gentlemen? So we're guys and gentlemen. I like it. Yeah.

So Matt from San Fran, he's referencing this article. on NPR. That's pretty interesting. The headline is so many music festivals have been canceled this year. What's going on? This was published a couple weeks ago. And, you know, this reminds me of the conversation that we had when we were coming out of lockdown and there were a lot of tours that were not able to get out the ground, basically because of infrastructure issues. And there were a lot of think pieces about how the tour business is broken and like, Are we actually going to, our band's going to be able to tour in the future, is touring dead? And it's a similar type of overreaction, I think, to this thing where this summer we had festivals going dark.

I just want to read some of the festivals that are referenced here in the article that weren't able to go off this year. You have Desert Days, which is in Southern California, Sierra Nevada World Music Festival, kickoff jam. Blue Ridge Rock Festival, sudden little thrills, and float fest, something called floatfest in Austin, Texas. Now, out of those festivals, I have only ever heard of Desert Days.

I was really surprised by that one, because people I know in real life go to that. Yeah, that seems like a significant festival. These other festivals, like, no offense, but I've never heard of these festivals. And there's many other festivals that you or I or anybody else outside of the region that they're in have probably ever heard of. I don't know.

I just feel like in the music business, as in other areas of the economy, it's a supply and demand push and pull going on. Sometimes there's way too much supply, and that results in festivals going dark or bands not being able to tour. Or there's way too much demand, which drives up ticket prices, and it's harder to get into shows. And I think we've seen instances of both in the last few years. So, you know, this whole thing about like, well, it's about algorithms or it's because younger generations don't want to go to festivals because they're on their screens all the time or whatever kind of think piecey explanation you have

to make. I just have a hard time buying it. I think it's the supply and demand. It's the cruelty of capitalism. You know, you're either getting screwed because you're a musician who wants to tour and there's not enough demand or you're screwed because you're a concert goer and there's too little supply and you can't get into the shows you want to go to. To me, that's always the explanation for these things, first and foremost. Yeah, I think we need to do a little bit of a game where you just like, like talk, like just name festivals and I have to like guess whether they're real or not because the ones that you mentioned up top, like float festival, like I, look, I can believe it's real, but I've never

seen anything about it. And there are festivals like something in the, not something in the water, like the one that Farrell does in Virginia that seems to, like I only know about it because it seems to get canceled every single year. But yeah, we've been doing this podcast for long enough where I feel like we do a is the festival bubble bursting discussion every few years or so. Like I really thought things were going to change in 2019. Like there, I remember like when like Tom Bryan was reviewing Chance the Routhing.

rapper's wife guy album. He talked about like he's headlining the sort of festivals that get canceled for low ticket sales. And this is like when you would always see like future islands, Mac DeMarco and the XX and Chance the Rapper. And in a weird way, like I feel COVID bought it some time where people just like wanted to see anything live. And so we're sort of back to where we're at right now. And I think, um, I don't think that the festival bubble is birthed for like genre specific

festivals, you know, like best friends forever and when we were young. Like, Las Vegas is having two emo festivals in October. You know, there was the Something in the Way festival in Boston. It just got announced. It's like kind of more of a heavy shoegaze sort of thing. But yeah, I mean, I think the, you know, the down market, the down market, the lollapaloozes and Coachella's are just not happening. And I also wonder if, like, we just lack proper headliners.

Like, I think the sort of people who can anchor a festival are just too big now. Like when we had that Chapel Rone at Lollapalooza F's picture that just like made people lose their minds. Yeah, Lollapalooza probably can't book Chapel Rhone now. Like they booked Chappel Rone at a time before she, you know, blew up. And so, I mean, aside from maybe Charlie X, X, X, X, X, you're either dealing with, like, the elite of pop stardom or pop artists who can't really, wouldn't fit in a festival. Or, like, they can't afford it. Or like, why would they even do it when they could, you know, just do stadium tours?

So I don't want festivals necessarily to die because I know they're a good payday for bands and, like, you know, another artists and they need them. But also, festivals fucking suck, man. Well, yeah. Even the good ones are like not a great experience. Yeah, well, especially if you're our age. I mean, I think if you are in your 20s, there's something about a festival that's fun. And it goes beyond what is on the bill. I mean, I think a lot of these festivals that do well,

they become destinations for people because they want to hang out with their friends. And there's some cool music in the background, but it's not just about what's on the bill. I think there is an interesting point that you were referring to that relates to like the disappearing middle class in music, you know, which people have talked about for a while, but how you have the one percenters, and then you have everybody else.

And there's not a lot of like bands that are just sort of in the middle that wouldn't do great if they were playing on the road on their own, but they can headline a festival really well. I feel like those artists are hard to come by. But again, I think it's about supply and demand. Like these think pieces talking about

are music festivals going extinct? Like, first of all, they're not. Music festivals are always going to be around. I mean, what they should be asking is, are there too many festivals? Yeah. Which I think, and the answer is yes. Like when things start getting shut down, I think it's usually a sign that there's just too many.

And it is the, again, it's the cruelty and the pragmatism of capitalism. It weeds out things that people don't want. And it sucks if you run these festivals and if you're a band that wants to play them. But, you know, I think over time the market corrects itself. And it's just the way it is. So, yeah, again, either bands are getting screwed or the consumer is getting screwed. And I guess right now it's people on the sort of supply side of the economic divide. Let's get to our next letter here.

This comes from Jacob. And he is from Cyprus, California. All right. Thank you, Jacob, for writing in. Hey, Stephen Ian. I've been a longtime reader and listener of your guys' work for a while. And I can stafely say that you to our first ballot Hall of Famers for the music Critical Hall of Fame. Wow, as well as being incredibly important to me as writers. So thank you for that. Well, thank you, Jacob. Is there a music critic Hall of Fame? Have I missed this? Yeah, I'm told they don't build statues for us. Maybe they do have busts. I mean, am I going to wear like a uprocks hat in the Hall of Fame or am I going to wear like a pitchfork hat? You know, like how players. Yeah, we'll see, man. Probably pitchfork. Yeah. Got to be pitchfork. My question goes back to something Steve said last pod about all years ending and for being important music.

years in defining the decade as a whole. I don't think I said that exactly. I think I said years ending in four are great music years. I don't know if I said they define the decade as a whole, but maybe I did, and I just don't remember. Anyway, as someone who spends way too much time making playlist that try to capture a given year in music, I can't help but be triggered by the idea that the four year is the special one, if only because of 2014, and to a lesser extent 2004, and to an even lesser extent, 1974, seems so much. worse than say 1984 or 1984. In fact, I'd go as far to say that 2014 is the worst year of the last decade. Wow. My question then... The 2010s or like 2014 to 2024? I think he means 2010s. Gotcha.

Jacob, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but I think you mean the 2010s. My question then was 2014 really that good of a music year outside of a solid top 10? Is a good music year defined by the whole crop of releases or just what rises to the top. I'm probably biased because 2014 was the year, was the first year I bought the most, wait, I'm probably biased because 2014 was the year I bought the most music. But I can't help but feel every other year,

except maybe 2018 was significantly more interesting than 2014 in terms of variety and quality of releases. Once you get past the war on drugs, always in some good to great emo releases, what really is there? Maybe it's because it's immediately after the year of our Lord, But I do not find myself for visiting Run the Jewels 2 or the Voyager very often.

Additionally, how would you guys rank the years last decades if you were to rank them? We're not going to do that, Jacob. We're not going to rank every year of the 2010s. That's a little too deep. But anyway, he is doing a fact check on me saying, in his opinion, 2014 isn't really a good music year. What's say you, Ian? Yeah, I mean, I thought about that too. And by the way, if our mailbag was like really dismal, we probably would rank the year.

like that we're not above that but yeah i thought like 2004 2014 is like a very top heavy year even for myself like i thought uh you know like the hotel year and like uh never hung over again and there there are some classic emo records um but you know i don't think it felt as transformative as the prior year because you know he had high um and the 1975 and like emo revival and yeah i think big picture 1989 and And Sturgle Simpson's albums are like landmarks, but they sort of feel like they exist in their own universe. And also, like, you know, you mentioned Run the Jewels too. Like, and now I gave a 9.0 review to and like didn't listen to like ever after that.

Like I just got so burnt on that real quick. And also like, you know, Benji and Swans to be kinder records that people don't revisit for various and legitimate reasons. But, you know, when I look back on, you know, the lists and, you know, of various sort, It was a year where there were like a lot of third or fourth best albums in the discographies, you know, kind of topping the list. You mentioned Jenny Lewis as the Voyager and like Spoon, Caribou, Flying Lotus. Like St. Vincent self-titled was a very well regarded out in that year, like real estate or even Apex twins come back. So, I mean, there was a lot of like third or fourth best type albums in that year,

but I certainly wouldn't call it the worst of the decade. I felt 2015 was pretty blah. I absolutely agree that 2018 was pretty blah as well. I mean, also, though, after 2017, I feel like that was the break where I stopped paying as much attention to the quote unquote, the narrative. My year-end list was looking very different than most ones. But I wouldn't call it the word. Like, no year were like at home like no places there came out or like never hungover

again could be like the worst year of the decade. Like I think there are many better candidates. Yeah, I look, when I said this. the year ending in four thing. I did think that 2014 was maybe relatively weak compared to some other years ending in four that I was thinking of. But I don't know. I mean, to call it the worst, I think, is a gross overstatement. I mean, I'll just say my favorite album of the decade came out in 2014, which is Lost in the Dream by the War on Drugs. My favorite album, one of my favorite albums of the 21st century. So, I mean, for that reason alone, I love that year. You mentioned

the Sturgle Simpson record, Meta Modern Sounds and Country Music, maybe the most influential record in like the Americana space that's come out in the last, you know, 10 years or so. Taylor Swift, 1989, maybe the most important pop record to come out in the last 10 years. Certainly like lots of records imitated 1989 and you still see that even today. And, you know, you mention like the Always record. I mean, that's a classic. I mean, it's not as deep as a,

as a lot of years. I mean, like this year, for instance, I think is a very deep year, 2024. There's a lot of great releases. I think a criticism one could possibly make. I wouldn't make this criticism of 2024, but maybe there's like not the number of stone cold classics coming out this year. There's like a lot of like really, really good records. I actually think that there are a fair number of stone cold classics, but if someone were to counter my claim that 2024 is the best year of the 2020 so far, that to me would probably be the claim that they would make that it's a deep year, but it doesn't have like the highest highs maybe of other years. And I would say 2014, the strength of it is that the highs are very high.

Like the best albums that came out in 2014, I'll take those against any other year in the 2010s. I think give me the five best records are my five favorite. I think that's going to be a pretty formidable bunch. Is it as deep as other years, though? Probably not. So, like, on that count, I will, I will concede that this might be a little bit weaker than the years around it. But I think we can agree 2018 was the worst year of the past decade. I'm just looking up 2018 here quick.

I'm trying to remember what came out that year. Oh, yeah. That was, like, the Mitzke. Like, Casey Musgraves. Golden Hour, a snail male lush. Mitski be the cowboy. Astro World. Invasion of Privacy, Cardi B.

Right, yeah. Yeah, that's a pretty weird. That Robin album, the 1975 album, that was pretty good. I think that was like... The less good Courtney Barnett record came up right here. The best Eves tumor, but again, like, I think our points being made that, like, 2018 was like, that was like Pete, like, I think that, like, 2017, like, even though that year was, like, annoying. Like most of the records that were like made in that year were like done before,

you know, Trump got elected. So like they weren't really, uh, yeah. 2018 feels like the, kind of like look. It's sort of like what that year was to the Trump era. It was like what, you know, like November 2020 was in terms of COVID. It was just like we are in the shit now. Also, if I have to look back on 2018, my favorite record. I mean, maybe Amund Dunes freedom. Of course, like near my God. but like these weren't ones that were like topping lists you know do you remember the name of the album put up by the carters that year no holy jz and bianz no no that oh my god what everything is love in all caps fuck man the carters that's a that is a memory hold album if there ever was one oh my god thank you

that that i got a i got a i got a tip my as like a as like a hall of fame remember some guys's life style, you know, advocate. That's like, we're going to have to do an episode about whether that album has been more memory hold than the Dr. Dre album, Compton. Yeah, that's a, that's an intense battle of memory holing right there. Yeah, I mean, if you take the top five of 2018 versus the top five of 2014, there's no contest. I mean, 2014 kills this year.

So again, the top five test, I think, is an interesting thing. If you don't want to talk about depth, take your top five records of each year. That could be a good way to... Maybe in the next episode we'll rank the year of the 2010s. You know, we may need that content down the road. All right, well, let's get to our last email this week. Ian, you want to read this one? All right, so, hey, Stephen and Ian, hope you're doing well.

Recently, I saw a tweet written by at Jared L. Holt that said, The Best Weezer song is Across the Sea, which is a song with lyrics you could not force me to write at gunpoint. I completely agree with this take, and it got me one. What are some other songs that you would consider to be great in spite of their terrible lyrics? On the flip side, are there any songs that are a musical mess, but have powerful lyrics that you love? If you have to choose one or the other, which one would you pick? Great music, terrible lyrics, or vice versa? Melissa, Boston, Massachusetts.

Do we want to dispute that Across the Sea has terrible lyrics? I absolutely do. I just wondered if you were going to go first with that. Because I don't think the lyrics are terrible. Are they uncomfortable? Are they even cringy, if you will? yeah, I would say that possibly, but I don't think they're terrible. I think they're like pretty interesting, maybe for disturbing reasons. You know, he's writing about getting a fan letter from an

underage girl presumably and fantasizing about her. Is that problematic? Yeah, but it's, I don't think it's bad. I definitely think it's interesting. And it makes that song we're talking about for a lot of people. So I'm going to dispute that, Melissa, a little bit. Yeah, I think this is like, example of, I hate to use, like, outdated slang, but, like, Rivers Cuomo really understood the assignment of that song. Like, if you're going to write a song about that, like, those are the lyrics that have to happen. Yeah. It's an honest song. Maybe too honest, but, uh, yeah, because to me, terrible lyrics are boring lyrics or distractingly stupid lyrics, where it, it actually hurts the song. But I don't know. I actually feel like that isn't that common, really. I think that the number of

great songs that have lyrics where if you looked at them on the page or if someone said them, you know, like poetry recited it like it was prose, like it would sound bad. I think that's probably true of most songs. I mean, I'll just say as an oasis fan, every great oasis song has terrible lyrics. Like, if you just look at the lyrics, they're terrible. But it doesn't matter because when Liam Gallagher sings them, he delivers them in a way that's compelling. And that's really all that matters. I mean, the flip side here of great lyrics and terrible music and the song is good, I think that's impossible. I can't think of an example of a song that has like really bad music or boring music, but great lyrics. And I like the song. I mean,

The music, I think, has to sell the song. And if the music doesn't work, I don't care what lyrics you have in there. The song isn't going to fly. So I think that's a total non-starter, really. I mean, there are examples, obviously, of boring music and great lyrics, but I don't think those songs are any good for me personally. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to push back on the Oasis. I think they got some, like, really great lyrics, just, like, great in context.

I heard Don't Look Back in anger I guess the supermarket the other day And like you said, the brains I had went to my head That's a great fucking lyric Like if you know Leonard Cohen said it It would be considered genius But rock and roll star I love the lyrics to that

But like some might say Has horrible lyrics And it's a brilliant song Yeah Yeah Yeah for me coincidentally, I am working on a 20th anniversary piece on Interpol's antics. And Paul Banks is somebody who, we talk about like the hot chili peppers.

Like sometimes people like try to play him off as like, you know, the post-punk Anthony Kedis where the lyrics are just like, all of his like sexy quote unquote lyrics are just like absolutely awful, but I think this doesn't give Paul Banks or like the people who write these sort of lyrics enough credit. I think Paul Banks is really fucking funny and I think he knows he's funny. It's not like cigarettes after sex, which I would describe as absolutely like those are terrible lyrics because I don't think there's self-awareness there. Same with a lot of Kanye albums, you know, like 808 and heartbreaks. Some of the worst like on paper lyrics I've ever heard and some of them like either are terrible, like on the record itself. But, you know, my dark, beautiful twisted fantasy

and Yeezis, um, pretty indefensible in terms of like, not just content, but like the actual writing, but yet they're so extremely Kanye, uh, that you can't knock them. And Drake is the same way as well. Um, you know, similarly, you got like, you know, black thought from the roots, like very good, very writerly lyrics, but the roots never really moved me all that much. And, um, I think it just all comes back to like, is it serving the song? Because I can read a book of Mountain Goats or hold steady lyrics, but, you know, the music doesn't quite do it for me. So this is so...

Mountain Goat's a great example of that. I didn't think of that, but that's a great example of really good lyrics and the music just, and really the vocals. Yeah. We don't have to relitigate John Garniel's voice, but that's really brutal. And I can't get into it. at all despite recognizing that the lyrics are really good yeah because i don't know if like you've ever tried to if you meaning steve or you like the indecats listener ever tried to write lyrics and

that is such a different skill set than like writing poetry or like writing uh you know pros or what have you because there are words that just don't sing well and you know like certain rhyme schemes I mean, like, it is definitely a skill and, you know, like, Interpol, like, Jimmy, World, like, stuff that where I'm like, yeah, if it comes on, like, I can't defend it as far as, like, content, but it just works so well with the song. Like, I love Jimmy World and, like, am neutral on Jawbreaker, despite the fact that, you know, the latter has, like, much better written lyrics per se. You've not reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner or Ian and I talk

about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? I'm not going to lie. I was kind of scrambling for this one. I've been spending a lot of time listening to the new season of blowback, one of my favorite podcasts, season five. It is not for the faint of heart, but great if you want to understand our current political situation.

But I did find, next week is just, it's like we could do two episodes on Rec Corner in that week. But for this one, I'm going to go with Adeline Hotel. It's an album called Who Done It. It's a Brooklyn artist. who has been compared, I think, quite accurately to Jim O'Rourke or Sandro Perry, you know, things of that nature, kind of like talky, very ornate, maybe even Steely Danish studio-centric music, but it's kind of more fulky.

Also, it's about the guy's divorce, so there's like a Wrens-type bloodletting as well. It's a record where, like, I've listened to it in bits and pieces on, you know, like the singles that are available on Spotify or Apple Music more accurately. And I've listened to the promo. And I've thought, like, yeah, I'm going to get back to this one. I'm going to get back to this one. And I'm going to be on a plane for like 10 hours next week because I'm going to London. So this is a record I see myself revisiting.

I'm going to give a, yeah, just a recommendation for this. Like, I bet this is going to creep up my year-end list. So the name of the album is Whomdone It by Adeline Hotel. So I'm going to go in a much different direction. from Ian, as often happens in recommendation corner, I want to talk about a record called Highway Prayers. It's the latest studio record from Billy Strings, the phenomenon from the bluegrass world, or the jam grass world, if you will, who I've been aware of for a long time, but I wasn't really on board with him. Like, I respected his ability. I mean, he's basically like a modern day

guitar hero, and we don't really have those anymore, but like this is a person who is famous because the Duke can just shred and he's a very creative player and he's able to improvise and he has just great guitar solos all over his music. And I respected his ability. I appreciated his popularity, but he wasn't really someone I connected with musically until a few months ago when he put out a record called Live Volume 1. It's a live record, obviously. His first official live record, although you can find his live stuff on Nugs.net and Live Archive and all those places. And that record is just so damn good And it really, it Billy pilled me

I'm like, I'm finally on board with this guy And the thing I like about that record is that it is him And his jammiest and he is taking his songs And he's really extending them And he's playing with like, I think it's a four piece band And he uses effects pedals live So at times his acoustic guitar sounds like an electric guitar Which gives a whole other dimension to his music

And it's just great And so I've been listening to his records a lot in the last few months, and this new one is out today, and I wrote about it on Uprocks. And it's a really good record. He, you know, it's interesting because, like, a lot of people of his ilk, you know, people that are known for being great live performers, when they make records, they want to prove that, like, I can make records too. And I can make records where I'm not jamming a lot,

where I'm just writing songs. And, you know, the songs on here are pretty succinct and, you know, arranged and more in that sort of singer-songwriter type vein. And it's really good. He's good at that. He's actually like a really good singer as well. So the record works. I do miss some of the jamminess from the live record. I think that would be the record that I would give to people if I was trying to billy-pill them the way I was billy-pilled. But this new record, I mean, he's just really good at what he does. He's also like a really interesting guy. He has a great episode of WTF where he was so interesting that Mark Merrin actually forgot to talk about himself.

It was like a miracle. Like Mark Merrin didn't interrupt him all the time. That's how sort of engaging this guy is. So anyway, I cheer for this guy. I think he's great. Billy Strings, Highway Prayers. Go check it out. That about does it for this episode of Indycast.

We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Tate newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it direct. directly to your email box.