Indiecast - Big Thief + Spoon, Plus: Steve Albini Loves Juggalos

Episode Date: February 11, 2022

Is it fair to say 2022 is already a better music year than 2021? After all, 2021 might have been a year without an all-time classic album. But so far, The Weeknd has dropped an Album Of The Year contender with Dawn FM and now, Big Thief has delivered the masterpiece of an album, Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You. This week on Indiecast, Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen talk new LPs by Big Thief (24:12) and Black Country New Road, rank Spoon's discography (40:09), and discuss some indie music discourse (which includes Steve Albini defending... Juggalos?).With the biggest sports event of the year coming up this Sunday, Hyden and Cohen touch on this year's Super Bowl (5:42). Though the stacked halftime performance with Dr. Dre, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, and Mary J. Blige is sure to be a showstopper, the NFL also signed The Chainsmokers onto a very weird, virtual TikTok tailgate event. This begs the question: "Does anyone lean into doing the most unlikeable thing more than The Chainsmokers?"The NFL's bizarre tailgate aside, Indiecast wouldn't be the same without Cohen and Hyden suggesting some great reads. In this week's recommendation corner, Cohen spotlights the books Endless Endless: A Lo-Fi History of the Elephant 6 Mystery and Dilla Time: The Life and Afterlife of J Dilla (49:58).You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello, everyone, and welcome to IndieCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review new albums by Big Thief and Spoon. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's headlining the NFL TikTok Tailgate at Super Bowl 56. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Yeah, I just want to make it very clear that if Tumblr ever wants to do a Super Bowl halftime show or live journal or blog spot or any of the other old head social media platforms that I was actually on in the 2000s, I'm like totally up for that as well. But I just like the fact that like there is such a thing as a TikTok tailgate. Yes. Is this the first year of the TikTok tailgate at Super Bowl? Did they have this last year?

I don't remember if they did. You know, if they did, I guarantee the chain smokers also played it. Like I think they should just be like a permanent fixture. this thing. Well, yeah, so the chain smokers, I joke that Ian was headlining the TikTok tailgate. Actually, the chain smokers are doing it. I feel like the chain smokers should do this every year. I can't think of another act that is more suited for this job than the chain smoke. Do you think the chain smokers are super self-aware or not self-aware at all? Like, are they so self-aware that they're like, oh yeah, if we headline the TikTok tailgate, people on indie rock podcast will talk about this,

they'll make fun of us, but we are getting the last lap because we are self-aware, or are they so unself-aware that they're oblivious and they would actually think this is kind of an awesome thing to do? Well, you know, as much as I want to get into like amateur psychology about the chain smokers, I think it's a combination of both. I mean, like I just think of people who are similar to them that I know in the industry and you don't turn down this opportunity. Like, you got a, you got to strike while the iron's hot. I mean, and I think the iron is actually like ice cold for chain smokers because like, I think that they had a new song.

It kind of came and went. I think it was sort of pop, like, you know, new pop punkish. But this opportunity presents self, you got to do it, especially if you're the chain smokers because like who else leans into being as unlikable as them? They are. Like if they're so unlikable that I'm starting to like them now. I'm like in on the ground floor of the, you know, five to ten years. Hey, the chain smokers actually had some jams.

They were misunderstood. What is that thing where if someone leans into their worst qualities, that it makes them more likable in some bizarre way? I feel like that's like a, it's like a weird quirk of human nature that, you know, if you just embrace your awfulness, somehow that makes that awfulness seem redeemable. I don't know. why. But yeah, like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm kind of, I'm starting to like the chain smokers here a little bit, because they're doing this thing, they're going all out. And I think we've talked about this before,

but, like, their song with Coldplay, yeah, genuinely good song. I like that song. I'm putting myself out there. Yeah, in the Gossip Girl extended universe, that is like stairway to heaven. It's hey, Jude, it can't always get what you want. So, you know, maybe, maybe if, we see it from that angle. Like, oh, like, look, now we're in, like, a head-to-head race to be, like, the chain smoker's apologist in 2027. So we need to stop now before we, this, this is what's going to break up Indycast. By the way, did you ever correct your, uh, your mistake and conflation of Gossip Girl and Gilmore Girls? Was that ever, was that clear it? I don't know if you ever

officially addressed that on the show that. I think, I think I did. I definitely had to clear it up at home. Because we were talking about Gossip Girl recently, and you were talking about Gilmore Girls. Yes. This is definitely Gossip Girl that I'm talking about now. I wonder how many Indycast heads out there? None. I got no shit for that.

I can't believe it. Yeah. Totally. That was not, whereas if you had misidentified a deep cut on Jets Get Born, if you would I would get shit from you and nobody else if that happened. If you said that, you know, cold hard bitch was a song by, you know, I'm trying to think of another band from that era. Wolf mother. Yeah, if you thought that was a wolf mother song, we would get emails until the cows come home.

But like, you'd actually probably get like, you know, actual mail about from that, you know, kind of giving the audience. Getting like telegrams from our listeners. Someone challenging me to a duel or some shit. So other weird Super Bowl musical performances coming up this weekend. The Foo Fighters are playing in the Metaverse. That is as foo fighters as the chain smokers doing a TikTok halftime show. We talked about this last year how the Foo Fighters exist to play the Super Bowl halftime show. And they're going to do it even if it's in like the single lamest social media platform.

Well, I mean, if they ever do a reboot of Robocop, I think they already did. But if they did another one, I feel like that would be the Super Bowl show in, like, the new Robocop would be foo fighters playing in the metaverse. I mean, it feels like that kind of bit. Yeah. But yeah, they've never played the halftime show proper, right? Nope. No. You know, because this year, you know, it's going to be the 90s rap nostalgia show, basically.

You got Dre, you got Eminem, Snoop Dog. Kendrick is in there, too, right? I feel like he is. I think he's in there. I should double check that. I wonder if we're going to get it like a nake dog hologram. I want to see like all of the bit players from the chronic in there. I want RBX.

I want Lady of Rage. I want Daz. I want them to play like this. I want them to do the $20 sack pyramid, not just like, you know, five minutes of lose yourself and then like maybe the next episode and like forgot about Dre. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about this before we went on that, you know, we had that run, I guess, about 10 years ago now with halftime shows

where it was like all of the classic rock people were doing halftime shows. You had Springsteen, you had Tom Petty, you have The Who. I think the Stones did it. What? They had to have. I forgot The Who played in Tom, really. The Who?

Like, I love The Who, but that was a terrible halftime show. They looked super old at that show. I think that was the Colts Saints Super Bowl that the Who did. That was a very unmemorable Super Bowl. Yeah, that was not a good game. Well, other than the onside kick that Sean Payton did. That was an iconic moment in Super Bowl history.

And the fact that it was seen as a triumph of the Saints owner, even though he tried to move the team after Hurricane Katrina. But we're not going to get into that. But I just wonder, like, are we now in the era officially, like where that's not going to happen again? Where, like, are the foo fighters going to get a shot? Or are we now in the era? Because last year we had the weekend.

now we have Drey and Snoop. Is Drey and Snoop? Is this like the new classic rock slot? If you're going to have an old artist, it's going to be LL Cool J or something. Or I don't know. Like Jay Z, is JZ going to be doing a halftime show? I think that would happen. Like Jay Z makes a lot of sense.

Kind of surprise it hasn't happened already. But I would say that as far as actual like classic rappers that are classic rock acts now. I really think Jay-Z and like this combination that we have right now are kind of the only ones who could pull it off. I think that we are more likely to see the food fighters do it in the future

than say, you know, I'm trying to think you're like L.O. CoolJ. Well like Taylor Swift, I don't think it's ever done it. How is she not done it? You know, you've got like Harry Styles. You know, I could see him getting there like, BTS. Maybe they'll do it one year. Has Ed Shearren ever done the Super Bowl?

I don't think so. I could see that happening. I just want, because it seemed, because I mean, some of the people that we mentioned that did it like 10 years ago, obviously Tom Petty's no longer with us.

Springsteen could maybe do it, although, I mean, he's, you know, I'm trying to think how old he is now. I think he's like 72, he's 72 years old. He could still do it. Oh, yeah.

If anyone, he can. But, yeah, I just, I feel like maybe, I'm trying to think of, if there'll be another rock band that does it. It could be the Food Fighters? ACDC maybe back in the day, but not now. I don't think, yeah, I mean.

Van Halen, but not now. Well, it was Eddie. You can't do it with Eddie, unless you get to get by Wolfgang, play bass and guitar. Well, maybe the next band that we're going to talk about could do it. We've got to go back to the chili peppers here. They could do the halftime show. That would be fun.

Yeah. Yeah, I would enjoy. Chili Peppers' halftime shows. Oh, God. I was just thinking, Aerosmith, fuck, man. They did it like, they did it like 20 years ago.

Oh, that's right. They did it with Nellie. And Christina Aguilera. That was a guy is correct. That was maybe the most boring Super Bowl of all time, that Giants Ravens. Yeah, that shit was horrible. Almost more boring than even last year's.

The Chili Peppers, we were talking about their new symbol. It dropped a week ago, but, you know, I feel like we have to talk about the actual song. We have to close the circle here. It's called, is it Black Summer? It's called Black Summer, yes.

And, you know, the anticipation for this song was that John Fashonte's playing on it. First, John Fashante, Chili Pepper song, I think, in 16 years. But Anthony Ketus, as he has wont to do, hijacked the discourse with his vocal delivery in this song. Yeah. Very interesting choice. He's singing, I've seen people liking it to a pirate accent. I felt like it was sort of like an Irish brink. rogue at times.

And it's a little auto-tuned as well. How do we feel about this? Are we on board with the Irish era of Anthony Kedis? I don't know. I think if you just kind of tweak it a little bit, chili peppers can become like one of those angular, talky British post-punk bands. Maybe that's what they're like greasing the wheels for.

I don't know. Like it is the distance between like the Red Hot Chili Peppers and say like Yard Act and wet leg that big. I'm hoping they do this. They see the writing on the wall. They see that we are living in a UK post-punk era. We talk where you just jumble a bunch of words together to talk about the absurdity of modern existence.

How is that not the Red Hot Chili Peppers? Well, Anthony Key, this is talking about the absurdity of modern California. California? Yeah. California. Oh, my God. California. This is your best mispronunciation yet.

I do know how to say California. I think I was going to say Californication. and then I bailed at the last second. But, yeah, he, you know, he, as I was saying, he reflects on the absurdity of modern California. So, I don't know. I'm still curious about this album. I think we've established that the indie cast position on the chili peppers

is that we want this album to be good. So we'll see what happens. One thing I wanted to ask you about, I don't know if you saw this, but Steve Albini, who's been very active on Twitter lately. Yeah. He praised insane clown posse because Violin J, one half of the duo, gave an interview, I think it was with Stereo Gum, where he... Yeah, this was way back in the day.

A long time ago where he was reflecting on some of the lyrics of the past and, you know, some lyrics that, you know, homophobic lyrics in past ICP songs. And he was being very reflective about it and basically a toning for some of these lyrics in a very, thoughtful way. And Albini praised insane clown posse for doing this. And in the process, he took a shot at deadheads saying that, he said that juggaloes are better than deadheads because deadheads have tons of

CEOs and lawyers in their ranks. Not untrue. Yeah, totally true. Totally true. Although I, you know, I'm sure there are lawyers who are juggalo's. I mean, there's got to be some out there. There might be even some CEOs. Yeah, Violin J. and Shaggy too doper CEOs. Exactly. They're entrepreneurs. I wanted to ask you about this, though, because Steve Albini, like I said, he's been active on Twitter lately, and it seems like he more and more is taking this position of being like a moral conscience in a way. Like reflecting on, he's talked about his own past, some statements that he's made that he regrets.

He, of course, you know, he started a group called Rape Man. Yeah. They sound like a Japanese comic or something like that. And I think he regrets, you know, using that name. You know, look, I think it's great that he's being thoughtful about his own work and he's praising insane clown posse, which is not something you would expect Steve Albini to do, although you would expect him to take shots at deadheads. But in a way, this kind of reminds me of like, and I don't want to get too specific here, but like there was this generation of like internet writers that I associate like with Gawker and Deadspin, who in the 2000. thousands were very provocative, very un-politically correct, even for that era. And then 10 years later, they were very progressive, and they were very apt to, like,

criticize other people who were politically incorrect. And there's a similar sort of, like, hectoring bullying quality to both, like, how they were in the 2000s and how they are now. It's, and I feel like Albini has that still. I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say here. being very articulate, but there is this sort of thing of like, you know, I'm going to be a bully when I'm politically incorrect. And I'm going to be kind of bullying when I'm politically correct.

Does that make any sense? It does. It's like the old style of like being like snarky and, you know, irreverent and so forth. Like that's kind of, that's impossible to uphold. So now you got to be like kind of more selective about it. You know what I mean? It's like it's, I think it's like the dynamic between like punching up and punching down because you know juggalo's despite how like widespread they are it's always seen as punching down if you're uh against juggalo's and then it's you know kind of easier to talk about like how uh their politics are actually somewhat progressive but i mean i just think steve albini just like is totally being himself by like bringing deadheads into this for no reason at all uh you know like what what do they they have nothing at all to do with

what he's saying, and yet, you just can't resist. Well, and he also had to say that ICP's music is atrocious. Well, that's not untrue. I know, but, you know, it's like even like when he's praising them, he had to make sure to get some kind of shot in at ICP. Well, look, we're all progressing. You know, I think that this is, you know, progress, not perfection for Steve Albini. You know what I mean?

Just as long as he makes those drums sound good, I can give a shit what he says. Absolutely. It has a sidebar to this. I'll say, I interviewed Violin' Jay. I guess it would be about three years ago now when I did my Woodstock 99 podcast. And he is a really nice guy. He was probably the biggest surprise out of all the people I interviewed just because he was so gregarious and friendly and warm. I guess I didn't know what to expect when I interviewed him.

Yeah. But he is a really nice guy. If you're out there and you want to position to interview people, I'll say this to you, Ian. You should interview Violent J. He's a really – he's actually a really good interview. really nice. He's got stories. I mean, someone who's been in the game this long

has actually had a lot of success. Yeah, they're going to have stories. So let's get to our mailbag segment here. Thank you again for everyone who reaches out to us to send us emails. We can be reached at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Do you want to read this email, Ian? Yeah, let's do it.

So this comes from Zach from Joplin, Missouri. Love it. Like, scale of 1 to 10, how indie cast is that town? Well, you know, I mean, have we had Missouri people, right as yet? I don't think so. I wonder, Zach, if you live near the Ozarks. Are you in the Ozark Mountains? I wonder that.

I'm a big Ozarks watcher, so. My late grandmother lived in Missouri for a long time. Missouri, as they say. She lived in Springfield, Missouri. She owned an apartment building there. Anyway. Anywho, Zach. I'm a big fan. Let's get that out of the way first.

So just getting to his, like, and Zach has been following us for a while. He gives us a lot of compliments. We could skip the compliments part. But thank you, Zach, for the compliments. Yes. My question for you guys is, what are some great songs on bad albums? I've been thinking a lot about this. I recently revisited the last Arcade Fire album in hopes that my mind was cladded by all the negative reviews. Turns out it's still bad. However, I really like the... the song Everything Now. Objective opinion, sure, but I think it's still great. Other songs that come to mind are Ghost Town on Kanye's Yeh album. Just about every Weezer album is terrible,

with some exceptions, okay, since Pinkerton, ah. But I can always find a song or two I like. For example, A Perfect Situation on Make Believe. That song follows Beverly Hills, which is an all-time stinker. Another is the song Silver lining on the last Riloh-Kiley album under the Blacklight. terrible album, all-time great Jenny Lewis song. So anyway, you guys get the point. I know. I think under the black lights, that and more adventurous have kind of had this weird turnaround where they're almost more celebrated than the execution of all things.

But neither here nor there. Anyways, you get the point. Thanks for your time. Best wishes, Zach Joplin, Missouri. So great question, Zach. Thanks for writing in. Yeah, great question. So, like, when I saw this question, I immediately thought about albums from the late 90s, you know, the CD era.

And I guess we'll call it the landfill indie era of the mid-aughts. Oh, yeah. You know, the post-strokes bands. So I was just thinking, I mean, the thing about, like, those late 90s CDs is that I don't know, for instance, if the flies have another good song other than Got You Where I Want You. God's a basketball. Like, I will ride for that song on holiday man. But, like, that album is that album good? Is the Fly's album good?

Well, like, it's, I can't say for certain. Okay. I mean, we don't want to get sidetracked. I'm just saying, like, does Marcy Playground have another good song other than St. Joe's on the school bus and it's Saturday? Man, man, it's like I am playing basketball against Michael Jordan right now with that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's more like DeKembe Matumbo. man, I'm just rejecting every fucking shot

you're putting up right now. And then, you know, going over to like the, you know, the Ats era indie, I was thinking about like, I predict a ride by Kaiser Chiefs. Like, that's the song that jumps out to me. Oh, yeah. I remember I had that album. And so did I, man.

It sucked. Yeah, it's not a good album, but I like that song. I'm going to bring up She Wants Revenge again. I always bring up She Wants Revenge on this show. Yeah. I was thinking of that song, tear you apart from their self-titled album. 65 million streams, by the way, on Spotify.

That's got to be. on some kind of playlist? Or are people dialing up that song specific? I don't know, it's 65 million streams. Indie Sleez is back, baby. You know, Zach mentioned Weezer as being a band that does this a lot. I was actually thinking about New Order, especially like the album Republic, which I don't think is a very good record, but regret is an amazing song.

Yeah, like, incredible song. It's like the first track, and you can just skip the rest of the album. Or Crystal. on Get Ready. That's another, like, album opening banger. I actually think there's some, like, some pretty, this is like some pretty okay songs after that, but like that album overall. With Billy Corgan on it. Yeah, that album overall isn't that good.

So I think Norder does that. Not an album band. I was thinking, you know, to make a more recent reference, is like working for the knife from the new Mitzki record. Like, does that qualify? I mean, is the Mitzky discourse still unsettled? That is your, that, that is your grave, Steve. I don't know.

I feel like that I like that song. I feel like it stands apart from that record. I agree. But you said it. How about you? So, yeah, I mean, with the late 90s CDs, I mean, I think that kind of complicates the discussion because then we're just talking about like, you know, bad bands that happen to have one good song. And, you know, like buying the CD, listening to the CD, feeling ripped off.

The used CD stores are filled with these kind of things. things. But yeah, Latter Day Weezer Smashing Pumpkins albums, I think that's definitely a category of like one good song on a out, like, I think of this question more framed as good bands,

bad albums, one great song. And so I think a definitive example from like my classic rock period, fool in the rain from in through the outdoor, just a fucking awful album. I'm sure Bob Dylan and Neil Young have like a ton of songs.

that fit into this category, I'll leave that to you. I don't think so, actually. I'm going to, I don't, I mean, with Dylan, especially, like, his, his albums that are bad end up being good, like, about 30 years later. So I don't think that applies to Dylan. Anyway, you were saying. All right. So the one bit, I think Flora Dada from the last Animal Collective record is in the same

vein as regret, where it's like the first song I'm painting with and I don't listen to anything else after it. But I'm going to like, I feel like I'm stepping on unsteady ground here by, actually steadier footing is actually a name of a song that these band has put together. But recent death cab albums have been like the one good song on the otherwise album I'd never listen to again. Summer years from the last one, thank you for today. Goes to Beverly Drive from Kinsugi, doors unlocked and open from what I think is the

underrated codes and keys. And I think modest mouse you would put them in there as well. Maybe there are more recent songs. But yeah, bands like that, you know, I've uncoupled my emotional attachment from the actual quality of music now. Now I'm not like personally offended when they don't make a good album. Just one song per album. That's all I ask from them. And, you know, Death Cab has delivered one good song per album.

Yeah, you know, what you're getting like seven, eight? nine albums deep into a career. If the artist can still deliver like one killer track, I think that that's an accomplishment. You know, not everyone is going to just string together good or great album after good to great album. Yeah, I mean, we would have put the killers in here

like a few years ago, but then they actually started making good records again. Well, and even like Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, is there like a standout song on that album? I don't know. Yeah, probably. I just don't know what it is. Yeah, that's true. Well, let's get to the meat of our episode, and we have a very meaty meat in this week's episode. We have two big albums.

The first album is by Big Thief. Their new record is out today. It's called Dragon, New Warm Mountain, I believe in you. I'm giving people permission to call this album Dragon or Big Thief Five, because that album title is a mouthful. And I think people are going to be talking about this album a lot. I wrote about this record this week, and I didn't mince words. I think this album is a masterpiece. I just saw right before we started recording that Pitchfork gave us the best new music.

They gave it a 9.0. I think that's too low. I think this deserved a 10.0. Especially, I mean, I think the album itself justifies it, but, you know, they gave two hands a 9.0. And this album, I think, I think, is markedly better than that album. And I think really, you know, I love Big Thief. This is their fifth record. I've enjoyed all of their albums leading up to this.

But I wrote this in my review and maybe people will think this is hyperbole, but I don't think it is. I think when we look back, people are going to look at those albums as a preamble of rough drafts to get to this record. I think this is the record that Big Thief was destined to make the one that they were working toward. It's such a strong statement. And part of it is just because I love double albums. You know, this is a 20-song record. You can't talk about it without using the word sprawl. So I'm sorry for lapsing into rock critic cliche,

but I think that is a word that applies to this record. It was recorded in four different locations. It was recorded in upstate New York. It was recorded in Arizona and the Colorado Rockies and in Los Angeles. And you can hear that on the record. I mean, there's different sounds on the record, different styles of music. I really love the songs that they did in L.A. with Sean Everett.

I kind of want them to make a whole album with Sean. I feel like he can be like their Daniel Lanwa, you know, because there's a real, he does something with Big Thief on those songs that I haven't heard him do, like with other acts, like the War on Drugs, Alabama Shakes, other bands that he's worked with. But, you know, you've got like these dusty Americana songs. You have these, you know, Old Testament balladry, you know, very kind of basement tape songs that were recorded in upstate New York. You have that kind of classic art folk that you, you know, you know, you know, very kind of basement tape songs that

you associate with Big Thief on the record as well. Look, I'm just rambling about this record because I really do think it's a special album. I'm curious to hear what you have to say. I haven't really heard your opinion on this album yet. Yeah, the people are on the edge of their seats. First off, like, I'm not learning that album title. That's, like, very much, like, I'm happy for you. I ain't reading all that.

I'm happy for you, though. I never learned the 1975's album title either, and that's, like, one of my favorite albums of the past 10 years. But yeah, as far as like this one goes, like, I do agree. Like, I don't, I didn't know how this was going to go for me because, I think not since, like, I want to say like Animal Collective in their prime or Deer Hunter in their prime, has there been a band that like, it just seems like the bar gets raised every single time for the praise.

But also it's like, is this the one where people turn on them? Because I think, you know, look, you've seen, we've seen many, many. any big thief press photos. And, you know, their interviews, they take themselves, like, quite seriously, it seems. And, you know, like, is this going to be the one where they just kind of lose complete sight of their strengths? And a double album would seem to do that. But I think there was somewhat of a backlash with, in 2019, like when UFOF and two hands

came out and were so praised. I mean, the New York Times still hasn't really written about this band. It's not like they're universally adored. I think that there are people that. look at them as being like this sort of hippie band that they're very precious. Which they are. You can make that case, but like, this is a great record. Oh, no.

This is, this is like. This is great record. I just got it like. I mean, it's like you could take shots at you two in 1987, but they still made the, but they still made the Joshua tree. So like what do you? It's like once they didn't make the Joshua tree, I think that's when the knives come out. Like a big thief now does rattle and hum.

You know, like where they make a black and white documentary. where they're covering the Beatles and saying that they're stealing. Play the blues, Buck Meek. Yeah, exactly. If they do something like that, then yeah, then the backlash will come. But it's like, yeah, you can be earnest if you're delivering great music. And I think this record to me, I don't know, I've had this record for a couple months now. Right.

And it already feels, I mean, I referenced so many classic albums. Seven songs have been released from it so far. So, yeah, it does feel like it's part of a fixture already. I mean, a lot of people have heard it, but just for me, like having the whole record, it's like, oh, this kind of feels like an automatic for the people. It feels like a Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. It feels like a record that people are just going to take into their lives and pass down. It just has that feel to me. I really don't think, I don't really have any doubt that people are going to love this album if they love Big Thief.

If you don't like them, maybe you'll roll your eyes at the album title. Maybe you'll think they're self-important. Sput Infinity. By making such a long record, you know, make a 20-song record. I love all that stuff. I love that they went on the road and spent five months playing in different places. Because I think it translates on the record. And also, I just love the gesture.

I love the idea that, like, they want to be great. Like, I think they were trying to make a masterpiece with this. They wanted to make a big record. And I love that as just, you know, again, the ambition of that, the gesture of it. I love it. And the fact that they pulled it off so spectacularly, in my opinion. in. It just, like, they're the band right now. Like, to me, they're it. You mentioned Animal Collective, Deer Hunter, what they were in the 2000s. That's what Big Thief is now. And there's not

really, I mean, how many other bands are like that, like, where it feels like a real band, where it's not just like one person that's surrounded by supporting players. I mean, Adrian Linker is obviously the focal point. Yeah. But I think what I really love about this record, as opposed to maybe, like, the previous two is I think the previous two at times, I think the previous two at times felt like Adrian Linker solo records that the other members of Big Thief happen to play on. This feels like a real band. You feel them playing together in a room.

And I love it when you get that vibe from a Big Thief record because, again, this is another earnest thing to say about them, but the communal aspect of their music, I think, I find so inviting and invigorating. And it just maximized here. I think so as well. like this is my favorite big thief record um all like because in a way they they they show more self-awareness of their playful side like am i going to listen to sput infinity every single time maybe maybe not but but like you know that's a song with a jaws harp on it like they you can't do that and not have

like a sense of humor um about yourselves and i think that kind of plays out throughout the record um you know it's ironic that this 20 song 82 some odd minute album to me has less lulls in it than UF UF-O-F and two hands, which were shorter. I think that you're right in that.

There were times where I would kind of tune out on those records because it seemed a little bit like a solo project or just too quiet. But this one's rowdier. It's got more fun. I love it when they get Dave Matthews band with little things or time escaping.

And I just wish so much that this album had come out in 1998 or so not just because there's a lot of like quasi post okay computer portis head like trip hoppy sort of stuff going on. I just wish I could turn this into a CD, like a double CD. I can already envision in my mind like it's got like the fragile style packaging, not where it's like a jewel case. It's more like, you know, it's not like a jewel. It's like the kind of fold out. And I was thinking to myself, well, wait a minute.

Why don't I just like burn these myself? Well, you can buy the CD, Ian. This is the CD revival. There is a CD edition. Actually, you know, I'm getting the CD of this. I might have to do that. And I wonder if it will be two discs. I guess it has to be if it's 82 minutes.

It has to be. I know from Metallica's load and reload that you can only fit 70 minutes onto an album. So that means it'll be like being there, the Wilco record. Yeah, that exactly. That also had the soft case. Yeah.

And it has, you know, that album, I mean, I don't even think that album's 80 minutes. Like, I don't think it had to be two discs. I think,

like Tweedy, there's that story where he insisted that it be two discs and he actually took less money because he wanted it packaged a certain, like,

in that way, which is another reason why Jeff Tweedy is my hero because he's, Yeah, so it could have been on one disc, but he wanted it to feel like a double record. So he had it on two discs. So I feel like with the Big Thief record, I wonder if each disc is going to be 10 songs in about 40 minutes. Yeah, it has to be.

Also, I realize I don't have a CD player in my car or my computer. So if I do buy the CD, it's like almost more for show than if I own it on vinyl. You can buy a hard drive that you plug into your laptop for 20 bucks, and you can play CDs that way. I'm just saying, just saying out there. I wanted to ask you this quick. This is sort of a ridiculous question, but in a way, I kind of believe it's true, which is, is 2022 already a better music year than 2021? I mean, obviously, we can't make that determination in February, but we've already seen a series of albums that I think are all-timers. I mean, for me, you know, last month, you had Don FM by the weekend, which I think.

is a great record. You have this big thief record, which if there's an album I like more than this this year, then this will be an all-time year for me. If an album tops this big thief record, I can't wait. And I know for you, like Black Country New Road is probably like your album of the year. I mean, we've had some heaters already this year. Yeah, and ones that are to come, like that we know are already good. Right.

And look, I'm of the opinion that every year is a good year for me. You can find good music everywhere, but it just seems like we're having a run of like all-time albums early in the year now that put a lot of what came out last year, like in a, I think a worst light, you know? Like, these are albums that, like, would have automatically topped year-endless last year if they had come out, you know, a couple months earlier. Yeah, I mean, it's not like, look, we, we hash out trends here, so I don't think it's wrong to do that it takes. But yeah, the Black Country New Road album is the reviews of it are just

insanely good. Like, even for a record as divisive as it is, like, I know it's divisive, they know it's divisive, but like most critics are like really into it. Who wrote the pitchfork review of this album, Ian? Oh, what about the pitchfork review of this album? Who wrote that? Who wrote it? I did. And you know what? Like, this is like the first time I've like written a review that ended up as best new music for an album that like I kind of had to convince like convince people who like an audience that might not be into it because like in the past it would be like you know like turn style it's like things that like oh yeah this is clearly the pick of the litter from like the hardcore slash emo realm but um yeah this one I had to like really put my back into um and look

I was just shocked that I liked that album because I went back and listened to their first LP and I still don't like it. Yeah, there's a lesson. They really leveled up with this album. Oh my God. Well, they stopped being talky post-punk and became like kind of a sprawling emo band, which, you know, to me like that, not just the music itself, but what it signifies. And now it might be their last record.

Who knows? I mean, the lead singer left. If you could have scored that album yourself, because pitchfork gave it 8.4, if you were scoring it, like, what would you have given it? Would you have gone nine? Would you been like at the nine range? This album is just like such a, like a fucking. obvious triumph. And what I think is fun, like, even if you, we could say, like, is music better

or not better in 2022 as compared to 2021? When you look at, like, a band like big thief, a band like Black Country New Road, uh, even, you know, Animal Collective or, you know, that's, like, indie rock just as indie rock bands. I think it's more fun because like bands you can kind of, okay, all these bands have like kind of silly press photos. That's a, and like, there are bands that you can just have divisive opinions about and like not bring down the universe's hatred on you. I think that's fun. So, like, I think it's more fun to discuss bands than individuals.

But, I mean, I'm like, I would not be surprised if like 20, if we look back on 20, one is like, yeah, that was just kind of a holding pattern. At 22. Because all these albums were probably done in 2020 or 2021. Yeah, the Big Thief album was recorded during the lockdown in 2020. It was like that summer, basically. They went on the road and went to all these different places. So, yeah, this album's been around for a while, which makes you think, is there going to be another double album by the end of the year from Big Thief?

I mean, they recorded 45 songs for this project. And the band members have said that some of their favorite songs didn't make the cut. So, you know, maybe there will be another double album, or maybe they, can just like chill out and just release 10 song albums for like the next couple years just from these sessions, you know, who knows? But again, great record. And like I said, if there's an album I like more than this this year, this will truly be a special year. But yeah, this is the new album I think. For me, and I think probably for a lot of people that, okay, this is the album of the year. What's going to top it? Yeah. And for you, I know Black Country New Road is probably

that for you. But yeah, like you said, we both have heard promos of albums that are coming out in the next few months that are also fantastic. So, I mean, there's, it's not, it's not like we're peaking early here. There's a lot of good albums come down the road. Indy Rock is thriving right now, Ian. Can we say that? I think indie rock is in a really good place. Yeah, I think so. You know, it'll be interesting to see, like, if there, if this is like a, you know, rising tide lifts all boats sort of thing. Because, you know, it's right now bands that are pretty established. Like, you know, and we got like Beach House coming up next week and, you know, other like bigger acts. But, yeah.

That gang of youths coming out later this month. Yes, gang, ooh, yeah, I can't wait to talk about that one. That album, I feel like we will both be very nice to. I have a feeling. I'm just putting that out there. Yeah, we're very much in favor. But yeah, and, you know, like the next album we're going to talk about as well. But, yeah, I don't know if it's like, you know, a desire to, like, you know, relive the

glory days of, you know, of, I guess there's a new weather station album coming out as well. Like, so, yeah, it'll, it'll, I really do hope that, you know, we, we aren't in a revival of indie rock because that will be great content for us and what matters more than that. Well, let's get to our next record that we're talking about this week. It is called Lucifer on the sofa. It's by a band called Spoon that you might have heard of. This is their 10th record. It's an album that

It's been marketed as, I think, a return to rock Records, which is a little weird to me because I don't know how you feel about Spoon. I've never really thought of them as like a straightforward rock band. Like when I think about my favorite Spoon albums, my number one is probably Kill the Moonlight, and then you give girls can tell, gimme fiction, gagga, gag, gag, gagga, ga, gah,

in any kind of order. I mean, I feel like those are like the most beloved albums by this band. They're playing rock music. but I feel like at their best, it's always deconstructing it and putting it together slightly out of order. You know, if you think of a song like, I Turned My Camera on, or, you know, all of Kill the Moonlight, which is rhythmically very inventive. And it almost sounds like demos for a record that would be like a big slick rock record. But like, instead of making the big slick rock record, they made this sort of weird shadow version of what that album would be. And I feel like that's spoon at their best.

and Lucifer on the sofa, they're making a more straightforward version of that. Probably leaning more towards the Gimmie fiction side of what they do, which, you know, if you remember that album had songs like Sister Jack on it, the Beast and Dragon adored. Pretty, like, meaty, like riffy songs. I'm curious to hear what you have to say about this album, Ian. I've been listening to it this week. I really like it. I think, again, like with Spoon, you know, everyone always talks about this,

that they're the band that is, you know, very consistent and I think perpetually underrated. I think that was true for a while. I think now they're pretty properly rated. And, you know, I'm going to throw this out there. I think Kill the Moonline is a great record. I will say, though, in general, with Spoon, that they're a band that makes really good records, but not quite great records. Yeah.

Do you feel that way? Because, again, like, I look at their whole catalog. I don't think there's a bad record. record. You know, there's good songs on every record. You know, they're work in the 2010s, I thought was really good. You know, they want my soul was a really good album and hot thoughts. I thought was a good album. But, you know, if I think about, you know, the aughts, like when Spoon was really in their prime or, you know, this sort of legacy era in the 2010s going in the 2020s, like they're never my favorite band during whatever period we're talking about like they're always

really good and I'm always like man new album I like it but uh you know it's always like a little bit of a distance for me it's never like the the band that's going to dominate my life I guess yeah and I feel the same way and it's interesting that like every time a spoon album does come out like I find myself like oh cool new spoon album listen to it okay well they're not reinventing the wheel I like it, and then a couple months later, it kind of, it sticks around. But I would say the Kill the Moonlight to me is like a classic record for the, the reasons that you mentioned, not just the songwriting, but like the really inventiveness of the production.

It reminds me of like the X, X in a way where it just strips everything down to just like rhythm. And, you know, it's like almost like literally rhythm and blues. And, you know, with that record when I revisit it now, kill the Moonlight's my favorite. Number two is girls can tell. To me, that's kind of like their version of the Nationals Alligator, where you just go back

and it's so hard to believe that they were like a struggling band in their 20s, feeling like washed up. And I'm really taken aback by how straightforward that record is literally and, or lyrically. And, you know, with this new album, I like it. I think that the return to rock aspect, I think they've played it up a lot by saying, oh yeah, we went back to Texas.

We listened to ZZ Top a lot. as consistent as they're said to be, I think that there's more subtly the experiment, they do an experimental album, then they do the back to rock album, which gets like praised a lot more. Experimental out. So you have like,

give me fiction and transference and hot thoughts, which are the kind of weirder ones, and then the gaga, ga, ga, ga, ga, ga, and then they want my soul and this record, which this album is being like, like, I think this is getting like the best reviews of any spoon album I've like ever seen.

seen. It got like four and a half stars from Rolling Stone. Yeah. Which can I just read the review, read the lead from the Rolling Stone review? Because I feel like this encapsulates... I cannot stop you from doing this. Go ahead. This, I think, encapsulates a lot of how Spoon is discussed. It says Spoon are the most reliably great American rock band of the past 25 years. That might say more about American Rock than it does about Spoon, but facts don't lie.

So we're giving you a compliment, but we're also saying that, like, well, you know, it hasn't actually been a great period for American rock music. But you're the best of like an okay lot. I mean, that's basically what this lead is saying. Yeah, four and a half stars. Yeah, it's a weird lead for a rave review. But I feel like that encapsulates a lot of like how they're discussed, which, you know, I mean, that's selling them short, I think.

I don't think that they're the most reliably great rock band of the past 25 years. I mean, they're the most reliable band. I think you could say that. But I don't think they're the best band of the past 25 years. I also happen to think that American rock in the last 25 years is probably better than the reviewer who wrote this piece. But anyway, it's interesting to me, I think part of like the return to rock thing and people maybe positioning spoon as like a standard bearer of rock music has a lot to do with Britt Daniel. because in terms of front men or front people, you know, he is in a way, like part of a dying breed.

You know, this sort of good-looking dude who's cool, who has like a really good voice and can stand in front of a band and have charisma. There's not a lot of people like that now, like younger versions of that in bands. Maybe there are, it's just that like it doesn't look the way that, like, you know, like him or a Matt Berninger does. Yes, exactly.

But also, like you said, there aren't a lot of bands. Like, most of the people who do that are, like, solo artists by default. Right, I mean, they get a band together, and it's like the Mitzky show or the, you know, the Soccer Mommy show. But it's... I think there's a certain breed of music fan, though, that is, like, my definition of a rock band was set in 1995. And if, like, it doesn't conform to that, that that means, rock is dead. And Spoon conforms to that. Absolutely. And again, I think, you made a great point. There are a lot of charismatic front people now.

They just don't fit that sort of old world mold, which is, that's not a bad thing. I mean, that's a good thing. It shows that music is evolving. But again, I think if your conception of what a rock band should be was set in the 90s, then Spoon is a rare band that satisfies that. And I think that's kind of what makes it a little difficult for me to, like, emotionally invest in this record in the same way that I would with Big Thief or Black Country New Road. I think part of it is because, you know, the music, like, Spoon is by no fucking means an underrated band. Like, can we just like, like, I cannot believe people are still pulling that one out, like being consistently praised for 20 some odd years. But, you know, they're at a point where it's, I don't get to. the same sort of like stakes, you know, from a spoon record that I used to. And it's like, oh, it's good. But I never get like, oh, this is really changing the narrative for them or they're

really going out on a limb. And, you know, for people who kind of have that conception of like, it's safe in a way. And I don't necessarily mean that as like a slight on spoon. But, you know, to say like, oh, spoon, this is like, it's, it praises like not only indie rock from the 2000s, but also like, rock music from like the 90s and also kind of a classic rock sort like uh from the 70s like zizi top or like you know more of the funkier rolling stones type music like it just feels like a safe band to praise because like that review you read uh not only does it you know show that you're modern but it also you can kind of like throw shade amongst other bands who don't adhere to that for lack of a better term rolling stone conception of what rock is so we like this record

I think it's fair to say, right? I like this record. Yeah. We like, it's not, it's not the best. It's like, I don't know if it's even a top five spoon album. I don't think so. To me, it's going to be hard to top that run in the aughts. You know, again, like, girls can tell, kill the moonlight, give me shelter, give me shelter, give me fiction.

You're talking about the stones too much. Ga, ga, ga, you know, that four album run, I guess. And even telephino, like that one. Or series of sneaks? I mean, that was before. late 90s. I mean, yeah, they've been making great records, you know, as long as a lot of our listeners have probably

been alive, you know? I mean, so they might as well be the Rolling Stones if you were born in 1995. You know, that's the, that's the position that they're in right now. So it's kind of weird to talk about them like that, but that's definitely what Spoon is now. We've now reached part of our episode that we call

Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, yeah, so I guess, like, one of the side effects of there being so many big name albums out in recent times that I haven't really gotten to exploring some of the, you know, smaller record, some of the more under the radar stuff. But what's come up, it's also been a banner time for books about music, particularly books about subjects that I like to read about.

So the first one I want to mention is a book by Dan Charnas. He wrote The Big Payback, which to me is maybe the best, like, I don't even know if academic book is a good term. But like the big payback, one of the most readable, informative books about the hip-hop business I've ever read. He's back with a book about Jay Dilla, the producer called Dillah Time. It's been widely praised, I think rightfully so. It's just a joy to read.

And another one I want to bring up kind of from a different side of things is Adam Claire with a book called Endless, A Lo-Fi History of the Elephant Six Mystery, largely about neutral milk hotels. in the airplane over the sea. And, you know, particularly like endless, endless. He said, like Adam Claire, the author says it right up front. It's like he, a lot of it's like oral history and elephant six people talking about that record. And he had to just edit out a lot of those artists just being like, yeah, that was an amazing

fucking record. That was just amazing. Like so many variants of like, I didn't realize, like, we just kind of knew this was an incredible, irreplicable experience. And yeah, I mean, the more I read about Elephant Six, the better. The more I read about Athens, Georgia, the better. So, yeah, I think this is just kind of a good compliment to the big indie records of the week. You know, some great books about some timeless artists and really well done.

And we should say for those who maybe aren't familiar, Elephant Six, was this loose configuration of bands that exists. in the 90s and Outs, neutral milk hotel, Olivia Tremor Control, apples and stereo. Who am I missing? Circulatory system. Circulatory system.

This sort of like psychedelic. Lo-fi. Lo-fi. Foretrack. Right. And we should do an elephant six episodes sometime. Yes. Maybe I should read that book.

It sounds pretty cool. I want to talk about a compilation that was recently released in England. It's called C-91. And it's a play on these compilations that the New Musical Express put out in the 80s. They put out one in 1981 called C-81. They put out one in 1986 called C-86. It was basically these compilations of young bands that were shaping the sound of indie music at the time in the 1980s. And they

subsequently become beloved by people. If you're familiar with like the Nuggets albums that collected garage rock songs from the 60s, these albums performed a similar task for Indian alternative rock in the 80s. C-91 collects songs from 1991 from the British music scene. And of course, when we think about 1991 British rock, we think about like, my bloody

Valentine, you know, loveless. Bands like that. Well, this compilation goes after everybody else. You know, all the bands that you might remember bands like, say, Nezatomic Dustbin, or the Boor Radley's. But there's way more bands that

time has forgotten. And I I typed down some of these bands. You have bands like horse latitudes, smashing orange, Metal Arc 11, Honey Smugglers, Mexico 70. I mean, it's just like a...

These bands aren't real. No, they're all real, and they're all spectacular. And it's just been so fun to listen to this record. You have like a lot of shoegaze music. You have some, you know, kind of proto-brit pop songs on there. You have like a lot of, you know,

the dancey rock that you had at that time, like lots of Happy Mondays-inspired band. And it's just a great way to dip into a year and to find out what it was like then. You can stream it on streaming platforms. However, you only get 26 songs. Like the actual album has 59 songs. Of course, 26 songs might be enough. I mean, because there is a fair amount of like kind of just okay music on this album.

But there's also like some real gems. There's a band called The Stairs, for instance, who had never heard of. who kind of sound like the doors. And they're kind of doing like a doors tribute. Weed bus flower shop demo. That is the name of the song. Yeah. And it's like a pretty cool song.

So yeah, definitely I recommend dipping into that. Like I said, there's some, there's a fair amount of misses on there, but there's some real gems. And it's just like a cool way to go back to really an historic year in music, 1991. Again, we think about with British music, you have Loveless, you have, you have a, you have a, Screamadelica by Primal Scream and, of course, all the great American bands that put out music that year. But then there's all these other bands that time forgets. And, you know, since we are committed on the show to remembering some guys, this is a true remember some guys classic. So, again, C-91, go check that out.

Yeah, I'm excited because I haven't listened to this yet. Like C-86 is something I always reference in, like, music reviews without actually having heard it. But this one sounds really up my alley. And I just got to mention, the last song. on here is a, it's a song called Honey Comes Softly from a band called Fuel. I'm assuming it's not like the hemorrhage in my hand shimmer band, nor is it the fuel that's like one of the like the definitive like early emo band. So there's a third.

I wish they were called, if they were called like Fuel UK or like Fuel London or wherever they're from, like that would have really just been the icing on the cake for this. Yes. Maybe this will inspire a fuel tour. where every band called Fuel will get together as a package. We're not going to get Brett Scalions in there. I know that him and Fuel got beef. Well, maybe Scalions can do like a competing tour

where it's the ousted members of the other fuels who get together for a tour. Or the ousted member of other Summer Land type bands. Boy, I would be there for that. Brett Scalions, underrated rock name by the way. Incredible name. Brett Scalions. I love it.

Brett Scalions. It sounds like a Danny McDonough. bride character. Brett Scalion shows up Unrighteous Jumpstones. We've now reached the end of our episode. Thank you so much to listen to Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews

and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixedape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.