Indiecast - Broken Social Scene Returns, Greta Van Fleet Breaks Up (Almost), Ween vs. Tenacious D, and The Greatest Guitar Solos Of All Time

Episode Date: May 8, 2026

The guys open with Greta Van Fleet, who is not an indie band, possibly teasing their own breakup or possible new music this week (1:20). Then they offer an update on the Fantasy Albums Draft, discussing recent albums by Aldous Harding and Kneecap (8:15). This leads to a wider conversation about the week's new releases, including Broken Social Scene, Basement, Cola, Social Distortion, The Lemon Twigs, and more (19:24). After that they consider a recent list of the greatest guitar solos of all time, and offer up their picks (33:44). In the first mailbag of the Amazon era, they revisit Ian's negative album reviews for Pitchfork (43:23) and rule on whether Tenacious D ripped off Ween (48:32). In Recommendation Corner, Ian with indie EDM artist Ninajirachi and Steven goes with a recent book on heartland rock by Erin Osmon (56:44).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Amazon Music. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about new albums by Broken Social Scene, Aldous Harding, and Cola, as well as the greatest guitar solos of all time. Also, I think we're going to finally answer some listener emails,

the first mailbag of the Amazon era. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He has his Greta Van Van Frizzles. Fleet Think Piece ready to go if they break up tomorrow. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? I mean, the funniest first move would be to make their version of Page and Plant, which I guess would be called Kiska and Kiska. I was so committed to that joke. I actually had to look up their names. But yeah, Steve Albini passed away, so I don't know who would be the producer on that one, you know, walking into Hillsdale, I guess it would be called since they're from Michigan.

I don't know. Yeah, who's the modern Albini? Would it be like John Congleton? Would that be the guy to go to? I think so. Yeah, that or me. I mean, Williip has like the exact opposite approach, but something along those lines. So this week there was a story online. People were a buzz because Greta van Fleet is teasing perhaps that they broke up or maybe that they just have new music coming up. One of those is a disaster scenario depending on your point of view.

Let me read a little bit from Kerrang here. A cryptic piece. from Greta Van Fleet has sent their fan base into a frenzy with some worrying that the band is splitting up. Things have been quiet on the Greta Van Fleet front in the last couple years, and the Michigan Rockers haven't played a show together since summer of 2024. In the meantime, guitarist Jake Kiske co-finded a new band Mirador. Do you know any Mirador songs? No, I think that, Mirador, isn't that like the name of an Interpol album or something like that? Sounds like it. Sounds like it. Now the band of Shepardor.

shared a montage of their videos and live shows from across their lifespan so far, their first social media posts in almost a year. It concludes with the message, thanks for the Wild Rise. It says Wild Rise. I think it's Wild Ride is what it said. This is a typo from Kerrang. Thanks for the Wild Ride.

Love Josh, Jake, Sam, and Daniel. We all know that those are the four names of the guys in Greta Van Fleet. I doubt that they're breaking up. I think that they're probably teasing new music. And they figured this would be a good way to get publicity. I did, look, I feel like you and I both have a soft spot for really dumb mainstream rock bands. I know I do. I think I can speak for you.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're going to talk about guitar solos. We absolutely love our dumb hard rock bands. And I just love when there is a dumb rock band that exists in the mainstream. And there just needs to be a couple of these. and they've become so rare now. And Greta Van Fleet has always been a band that I've felt like a knee-jerk need to defend. Just because people, you know, they clown this band.

They're like a Led Zeppelin rip-off. The lead singer has a weird voice. He's got this perm. He has like the vest and with no shirt on underneath. They're just fashion victims all over the place. But I have a, I don't know what it is. They're from Michigan, middle of the country. I feel like I have to defend them.

I saw a lot of people saying, well, I hope this is true. I hope they break up. It's like, just calm down. We haven't heard from, I didn't even know that they were still making music. When's the last that we've heard of Grand Van Fleet? Obviously, because they haven't played a show since 2024.

I feel like they've been on the periphery for a while now. Grand of Ante Van Fleet is not bothering you. Let them, you know, do Moby Dick drum solos with the tassels hanging from the sleep. leaves, they're not hurting anyone, let them cook. I hope that they stay together for another 30 years. Yeah, I mean, my only interactions with this band come from this very podcast, so I don't really know. If we didn't have this podcast, I wouldn't know they were still making music, too.

But I mean, well, I think it was kind of silly to clown them even in 2018, definitely silly to clown them now. I mean, like, what impact do they have on the world? I don't think they're doing a manga turn. They're not playing those, like, country-coded festivals. And I mean, even to, even yet, yet. We'll see. I mean, look, Michigan is a battleground state.

I mean, the Greta Van Fleet endorsement for whatever Democratic candidate could flip that state. But, I mean, what threat are they to, I don't know, like proper music? Led Zeppelin 4 was 45 years old when they first came out. I mean, this is the equivalent of someone in 1998 writing hate pieces about Mambo number five. They are. Right. Yeah, and besides, like even when you, when you see like rock, you know, we talk about like dumb classic rock bands. Like, I guess cool rock bands nowadays will be like, yeah, man, we got like this crazy range of influences.

We like the cranberries and hum and smashing pumpkins. Nothing's off limits. I mean, doesn't a band that wants to sound like Led Zeppelin or at least bad companies sound more inherently interesting? Well, it's definitely, that's the bizarre aspect of the band that I, always found interesting when I wrote about them, that they were these Michigan teenagers that decided in the late 2010s to sound like Led Zeppelin. It just seemed like such a weird anachronistic type thing and the fact that it actually got some traction for a while. I mean, look, is there music stupid? Of course it is. But the anger, the vitriol, I don't really

relate to with this band. They're a hard band for me to hate because they're just so silly. and they're essentially harmless. And again, I like having bands like this in the world because I do think that 13-year-olds do need something to listen to that is going to maybe get them into something better along the line. I think a band like this can be a good gateway for them. And also, again, they're just like a silly rock band. You know, they're just writing silly dumb rock songs.

What is wrong with that? We have so many silly dumb versions of music that are popular. Why can't there be a Led Zepp one? Rip-off band. Of course, we're making an argument that was more relevant eight or nine years ago because, again, now we don't even know if this band's together anymore. Yeah, or whether they've like kind of moved on to doing like Led Zeppelin in through the outdoor style music with like all the synths. I mean, oh man, that would be awesome. That would be kind of sick.

Like a carousel Lambra type track, like a 10 minute. Hot dog. Yeah, like they're a band who's like entire germ is Led Zeppelin's hot dog. That would be a I mean, that would almost be... It's like a wean thing, I think. It could be a wean thing or some arty band. I mean, geese could make that turn, really. That's very true. If Geese made an album of Praguegy rock songs

that had a lot of sense on them, and they could tell interviewers that we were strictly influenced by In Through the Outdoor. That's the only album we listened to while we were making this. And our only intention was to make songs, that sound like all my love and fooling the rain and hot dog. And critics would just nod their head and go, well, they're being ironic. They're taking an artistic art rock view of this.

And they would totally dismiss it. Because Geese does have some Zeppelinie qualities to it, but they filter it through this New York art school rock kid sensibility, not like the Middle Americans in Michigan, you know, in Michigan, like those guys. they don't have that kind of pedigree. Yeah. Fourth of July rock block core. It's coming back. Love it. Let's talk about our fantasy album draft.

It's been a few weeks since we've talked about it. But you have a bunch of your albums here that now have scores. I don't know if you want to run this down for us. Yeah. I realized like almost right before we were recording that just about every single thing that I picked is already out. So Alas Harding, that was, that was like one that you questioned a little bit. Like I thought that was like an 85 money in the bank. She's currently holding it 82. That album comes out this Friday.

Yeah, talk about this record. Let's hold on and say, let's talk about Aldous Harding a little bit. Because like you said, what's this album called? We should tell people about this. We should probably tell people what it's called. And it's train on the island. That's what it's called. And I have to say, like, I wasn't that familiar with Aldous Harding when you picked it.

I think that's why I was maybe skeptical. Like, what's her story exactly? I think Australian or Welsh, like, but they are kind of in that... Yeah, she's New Zealand. Got it, got it. All right. So, yeah, I think it's kind of in that realm of Kate LeBahn or where it's, like, kind of artsy, but a little bit off center.

It's still released on a label, like, 4A.D. So, you know, it's like one of those albums that maybe sneaks into the number 35 spot. a typical year endless regardless of the reviews. But yeah, I think it's, I'm like seeing the reviews, it's like, yeah, she's not really advancing her style of music all that much, but it's still really good, which I think was kind of happening with the Kate LeBond album last. So, you know, it's a bucket getter, but it's not a, it's not going to carry my offense. So then you had the American football record, too, which we talked about last week, and that's done

pretty well. Holding at an 80. Kind of, kind of shocked. that it got an 8.0 from Pitchfork. Look, Sam Sadomsky, if you're going to give an emo album a rave, not best new music review, I know you're new to this genre,

but it's a 7.8. So I'm pretty satisfied. I thought the emo score was the 8.0 without the best new music. I thought that was... It's canonically 7.8. Okay. I'll take your word for it.

But that album's doing pretty well, I would say, with critics. I mean, were you expecting more than an 80? The odd thing is what's dragging it down as all music guide, treating it like a Los Campesinos or a Boni Vair record. But yeah, that's not what I expect. Three stars, which is like the equivalent of like a three point oh or like a one and a half star. Yeah.

So beyond that, kneecaps gotten 82. I was expecting maybe a little bit better. And kneecap, of course, the Irish hip hop group, which I love that phrase, by the way. Politically minded. I feel like they've gotten known on the. international stages, were they talking about the war in the Middle East? Is that the big thing? They're the ones who keep getting banned from festivals because they speak out against,

you know, they speak out for Gaza. And that's the, like, they're the band that, like, has suffered, I think, the most material loss from that. Like, they don't get led into the United States. They get canceled from festivals. They have to reroute their tour. They lost their booking agent. So I was kind of hoping that would get me an 85 at the very least.

But I think we also just have to run to the fact that it's like an Irish hip hop group. And I think they like actually rap in their native tongues. So I don't think most people are really prepared to meet them on their own terms. Yeah, I mean, 82 for them I think is actually pretty good because I don't know what, you know, to what degree that album would have been reviewed without this controversy. I mean, they were doing they were doing numbers prior to that. So I don't know. I think it's a bucket getter. Another bucket getter to use NBA terminology since we have to skip sportscast.

I think them and Bob Villan are the two most, the acts that have been hurt the most materially for speaking out, you know, about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But, you know, there is the concurrent publicity, I guess, that they've gotten from that. Totally. But neither act, I don't know if they're known necessarily for being brilliant musical. It does seem a little like a guy in Europe barking at you over rudimentary music. I mean, that's my... That never does poorly on the critical sphere, though. Maybe.

I feel like that has a little less cachet now than it used to. I mean, because like Sleaford mods, for instance, I don't feel like there's necessarily like a critical favorite in America. You can rely on the quietest maybe to give them great reviews, but I don't know if American critics at this point are. into that kind of thing. I could be wrong. Maybe there's a big Sleaford Mauds,

American following out there among the credits that I'm on familiar with. I'd love to get a mailbag from a Sleaford Maud's head. I just feel like they're the band. They're like the British Hobo Johnson now where if you want to just get quick engagement, just post a video of like Sleaford Mots.

Those who aren't familiar, I mean, they're not like a rap group. They're like a post-punk band. But it's very talky. and again not very melodic music very difficult maybe to listen to but it tends to get praised

by the people who like love the fall that kind of stuff although I don't think it's as fun to listen to as the fall I mean the fall actually have like a lot of jams that are like really you know catchy and maybe a more conventional sense

where Slafefort mods it does feel a little like I'm doing homework to be a certain kind of guy who's into this sort of music if that makes sense? Yeah, I think that there's also, and again, this is a very, very different approach, but the beats and the talking over it more reminds me of almost like Wesley Willis than anything else. Well, you were a big fan of the streets. And I feel like the streets is adjacent to that. Yeah, totally. And I could never wrap my mind around the streets.

That just totally eluded me from the beginning. Yeah, for me, it's like I had to get into the streets at the exact time that they were big. And that's just the first two albums, not the one that ends with fake streets at, which is a song about fake streets merchandise. I was 22, 24 years old. Like, I was living that don't mug yourself lifestyle. Any, if that stuff came out in, literally any other time in my life, if I was like 16 or 26, wouldn't a hit.

I don't remember the last time I listened to O'Grane, don't come for free, but I just might do that because it reminds me of being in Athens, Georgia in 2004, getting drunk, watching the NBA and NHL playoffs. Great times, man. Yeah, I mean, the streets, if that came out today, do you think that would hit in the same way? Kind of. Yeah, I think it would. I think it would, actually.

Right. I did too, actually. Yeah. I think because it would also, because there is the British post-punk thing that I think is evergreen with certainly the music press there's always a new british post-punk band that people are going to be talking about and the streets isn't post-punk but it's weirdly it feels like a part of that in a way it is it's a rap record but it's definitely more of like a post-punk type rap record it doesn't like groove in the way that american hip-hop does certainly um so um so

So Aldous Harding, 82, American Football 80, kneecap 82, and then he had Jesse Ware, which we've already talked about. That was a few weeks ago. She's bringing up the rear at 76. Totally. I need Tucker Zimmerman to have a brat summer if I'm going to pull this thing out. Well, I don't know. So I've only had one record come out so forth.

That was the Freco record, which we talked about a few weeks ago. That has a 78 on Metacritic. I don't know if you listened to the other music podcast. but sound opinions with Jim de Rigada's and Gregi. I've read that podcast. Two great guys. I love both of those guys. They've always been very nice to me personally.

They, like, roasted that record. Like, Jim DeRogadis in particular, who, and Jim DeRogatis, who, again, super nice guy. I love him as a guy. He hates, like, most indie rock bands. And he, or most critically acclaimed. indie rock bands. He went after Frico and then he went after Giese. And I think he's, he said, he talked about how much he hates Geese, hated getting killed. Um, I can't remember if he said that Friko. I think he said maybe Frico was better or maybe it was worse. I can't remember.

Well, I have, I have the clip right here. And the first thing I, I see is that it's weird because I'm reminded of the debut album was by Arcade Fire, Japan Droid. By the way, Japan Droid's is two words in the AI transcription. Connor Overs when he was a hot thing. There's a lot of Connor Overs in there. Are you roasting the AI there for not spelling Japan droids correctly? The AI is pretty good. Are you going after big tech

for not knowing Celebration Rock? Yeah, I'm the kneecap of podcasting. And they're also aimed for neutral milk hotel. I'm like, I mean, I made those references when I reviewed the first record and I'm thinking, man, I got to listen to this again. But they he does say that they write better songs

than geese. Yeah. But, but But that's a low bar for their, so they roasted Freiko and... Her style he roasted in this bit too. Yeah. And they're a Chicago-based podcast. Yeah. Freco's a band from Chicago. So they're going after a band in their own backyard.

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, again, we talked about that record having a lot of hype maybe building up to it. And the two podcasts out there talking about music. No, there's many others. But, you know, I actually felt like we were pretty nice after seeing the sound opinions podcast. Yeah, I didn't know you could feel that strongly about, I mean, like, I think, or at least strong in a negative way about Frico.

Like, I don't agree with it at all, but I'm just, like, kind of amazed by it. I think I've talked about this before about how when you'll see, like, the quietest or a similar place just go off on, like, Juliana Barwick or one of the more well-known ambient artists, like. You just don't recognize that someone can do such a thing. It's like watching Wemby in the NBA playoffs. They're like doing things that a human being shouldn't be capable of. And you just watch it amazed.

I love it, man. If you're going to be in the music criticism podcast game, you better be passionate or just stay at home. You know, stay on the sidelines. And they were bringing it in that pod. So shout out to Jim and Greg to the OGs of the music criticism game. Let's talk about albums out this week coming at you. You can go to your streaming platform of choice,

or you can even go to a record store. That's even better. You can check out these albums. We've already talked about Alde's Harding, her new record, Train on the Island. Did you listen to this? I listened to this record this week. I thought it was pretty good.

I had not listened to much Aldus Harding before, and I really didn't know what to expect. you know, I feel like I could give a list of female singer-songwriter signifiers here, and it would make it sound maybe more generic than it is. But, I mean, she's definitely in, I mean, you mentioned Kate LeBond before. I would say that there is maybe a bit of a, this seems so hacky to describe it this way. But like a Kate LeBon who has, I think her records are known for their sort of dynamic sonic textures. I mean, she's a great producer.

So she's bringing a lot musically to the table that maybe other singer-songwriters don't bring. So I hear that and maybe fusing that with like a Fiona Apple type songwriting sensibility. I mean, that seems like a fair maybe nutshell description of what that record is like. Yeah, I mean, I think for me it's more kind of like kind of an art piece where you don't go there and like have like that emotional immediacy. to it. And so, I mean, maybe there's like a little bit of like, another hacky thing, like, like, St. Vincent, where it's like art piece. You know what I mean? Right. No, I hear that. Yeah. I mean, I have a similar reaction where I really admired how the record was made, but it wasn't totally connecting with me beyond that.

But good record or interesting record anyway. Definitely maybe sample that album this weekend. if you're looking for something to listen to. There's a new record from the band Basement. That record is called Wired. And I thought that this was like a emo band from Boston or something. They're an English rock band. Have you listened to Basement at all? So you're not wrong for thinking that they might be from Boston

because they're on run for cover, which is a Boston-based label. That is why I thought that. Yeah, they are definitely from the UK. And they sound extremely American. It was interesting. I got a email to the other day about like, hey, would you be interested in reviewing this record? And I had to be like completely honest. Like I've never, like I know of basement, right?

If I'm in this realm, I have to know what basement is. But I don't think I've ever listened to one of their songs until today. And they do like a very straightforward type of alt rock in the same way that bands like Super Heaven or Citizen Maybe have done back in the day. There's that like emo adjacent but definitely not emo thing that they're doing. And they exist.

I've not gone deep with them. I thought it was fine. And I had to tell, it's like, dude, I don't have a single interesting thing to say about this band. Yeah, I mean, they strike me as a band where if you feel like I listen to indie rock and it doesn't rock. enough that this might be a band that you would enjoy. Like you said, they have a lot of that 90s alt rock heavy riffing thing in their DNA. So yeah, if you're just one of those, it's been described

as like, you know, it sounds like Dinosaur Jr. and Sebadoe, but also a little like braid and it's like it does that, but it kind of strips away everything interesting about either of those bands. So, yeah, it's just down the middle of rock. Yeah, definitely down the middle rock, which you know, some people want their rock to be more down the middle. And if that is you, head to the basement and head to the band basement. We got to talk about broken social scene. They have a new record out today called Remember the Humans. I feel like we've talked about broken social scene before. I feel like I've not really qualified to talk about this band because they are a bit of a blind spot for me. You know, you forgot it in people considered one of

the great albums of indie rock in the 2000s. That album, really did nothing for me when it came out and I was never inspired to go deeper into the band. And I know this is one of those kinds of bands where if you say that, people get really offended and they're like, how dare you? But honestly, it's not even a criticism of the band. Like, I have not listened to them very much. I just have never felt all that compelled to do it. They may in fact be great. I might love them, but I've just never gone deep. I know you go deeper than I do with this band. Have you listened to this new album at all?

Yeah, I have. And, you know, I don't know if this is like one of those bands where if you say that, you know, you're not feeling it. I don't know if Broken Social Scene has shooters. I'm like, they're doing that tour. They have some shooters. I wrote about their single and I heard from some shooters. I feel like that album and then there's the one after it. That's self-titled.

Yeah. Now, that one rules. That record rules. Whatever you, yeah, like, you could have said anything after that, and I would have said yes. I have no idea. You could have said it's called Chicago 18, and I would have said yes, exactly. But yeah, they're not as big as like what Arcade Fire was or Wolf Parade, but they've got some shooters, I think, out there. Yeah, I say that because they're a band that I love and have loved, but they're not a band that, you know, aside from anthems from a 17-year-old girl,

a band that has like triggered a lot of emotional uh you know a lot of emotions within me aside from man being being being alive in 20 in 2003 and 2005 was super cool um yeah bro you forgot it in people awesome album it is like the working definite it the working definition of like 2002 internet music like that's one of the first examples of pitchfork uh being like a real it's throwing its weight around. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

And that was before funeral, I think. Absolutely. Yeah, it was right before, and it kind of set the tone for like, hey, Canada's guts, even though it's like they're from Toronto instead of Montreal. I love the self-titled. It's kind of seen as a lesser work.

That record rules so hard. Love it. That's the one you might like more, I think. Forgiveness rock record, I barely, like, I remember not really liking it. Crime scene's a good song. And I reverever.

reviewed hug of thunder in 2017. That one kind of seemed to came and went. Fun fact in the process of reviewing this, both, they're not exactly Ice Age, but the last three broken social scene albums got best new music and missed the year end list. This new record, one of the worst covers I've ever seen. Not the, not okay, one of the worst covers of 2026. It makes them look like they're, like this like C-list emo band, like release it. It's like, what you think a Taking Back Sunday album cover might look like in 2026. Now I'm really intrigued. Maybe I'll have to go in.

I mean, the title too, I'm not sure about that. Remember the humans. It's a good record. I mean, it doesn't have that like wild flare of their early work. It just sounds like what you might think of Broken Social Scene solo record might sound like. And I've done the work.

I've listened to Broken Social Scene presents Kevin Drew and Brendan Canning, hit the wall. Banger. It's a good record. It's very enjoyable. but it just sounds it's almost like the last new pornographer's record in that regard where it's not something that is central to what's happening in iraq but it's enjoyable well on the topic of bands from canada there is a band from canada who has a record out today that i am enjoying quite a bit and

the band is called cola they're from montreal their album is called cost of living adjustment and I never really listened to this band before this record. You know, it landed in my mailbox and I thought I'll give it a listen. And I've been really enjoying it. And they are inevitably a post-punk band. And in a way, they kind of sound like Ice Age a little bit, but to me, they have hookier songs. Like, I don't know, have you listened to Cole at all? This is like a good record, I think.

Well, I'll listen to it now. I mean, I'll be honest. I like that one aught song. I think they are the post-aught band. And it's fine. But like I hear post-punk and I'm like, whatever, dog. Because it seems to me to be presented as what the more recent preoccupations albums sound like as opposed to what I really want, which is the first Viet Cong record.

Yeah. It's not as good as Viet Cong. That's a great record. That's so good. But I don't know. It's possible I'm overrating it because sometimes, you know, you just take a flyer on a band. And if it's good, then it actually sounds like really great because you just weren't expecting anything going into it. But I don't know. I've been listening to this record, you know, quite a bit this week. And I think it's quite good.

Cost of Living Adjustment, it's called, is the name of the album. Band is called Cola. Recommend checking that out. Licky Lye, apparently her last album, The After Party, is out today. I didn't know she was still making records, but apparently she will not be after that. Olaf Dreyer, a member of the band The Knife, if you remember that band,

their record Silent Shout turns 20 this year. That's a brilliant album. So good. Their debut solo LP, Loud Bloom, is out today. I have no expectations of that being any good, but maybe I'm being skeptical or. Yeah, I think it just kind of depends on how much Karen's on there because

they were kind of back in the mix with the last Viva Ray record which I thought was like a lot better than the previous one which didn't involve him so I don't know what to expect out of that but you know what I'll check it out because you know the time that I don't spend listening to

the new social distortion album you know well yes there's a social distortion album out today called Born to Kill which how was there not a social distortion album called born to kill before now. I mean,

they were just letting that sit on the table for like 40 years social distortion. Also, there's a new Lemon Twigs record out today. Look for your mind. I have a feeling that you haven't listened to this band a ton. I have delved into their catalog. They're just like a

really fun, retro rock 60s and 70s type band. Probably like a little too derivative to really stand out. A lot of their stuff sounds more like kind of genre exercises than like songs onto themselves. But if you like that kind of music, there's a lot there. Like kind of 70s AM pop sound.

A lot of Todd Rungren. I am a Todd Rungren fan, something anything, one of my favorite albums of all time. So I am susceptible to a band like this. I haven't heard this record yet. But have you listened to any Lemon Twigs? This has not seen like Ian Cohen music. It is not. It feels like they're always releasing albums, but...

Yeah, they're prolific, for sure. They're not quite like King Gizzard level, but they're, you know, pretty out there on the prolific charts. I mean, my understanding of the... Like, I think I listened to them when they put out Do Hollywood, like the first ones when they were still kind of on the indie rock radar, and they just struck me as, like, you know, none of these songs are as good as San Francisco.

Like, we have Foxygen. I don't need this. We don't have oxygen, though. Well, we don't anymore, but we do. I mean, you know, maybe foxogen needs to come back, although I think there's some controversy in the back thing. Maybe we just put that off to the side. But, yeah, they're like a lesser phoxygen. But, you know, I love oxygen.

I love it when there's a new generation of kids and bell bottoms and, like, the, you know, the, like, Freddie Mercury haircut from, like, the early 70. I like that kind of thing. You know, there's some bands from Chicago that are doing something like that right now. All the power pops up like that guy who does sharp pins who's like 20 years old. I mean, that record is really great.

So maybe he's already mogging lemon twigs. Because the lemon twigs guys are probably 21 or 22, but this guy's like 20. So he's like the young Turk. He's like the Johnny Wad. in boogie nights like the young kid coming to take the dirt digler out in the early 80s yeah he wad mocked i think that's the first time you used the word mogg on this podcast i know i didn't feel i felt a little

uh uncomfortable saying it and you had to balance it out with a boogie nights reference i know i had exactly i yeah because i always roll my eyes at the old guy saying the young kid slang that right there's something very uncomfortable about that and then i did but you know sometimes the slang becomes mainstreamed enough that you have to use it because it's the best word. So I feel like Mog is at the point

now where it's been drained of any street cred. Which is good news for us. Exactly. It makes it safe for the 48 year old podcaster to use it and not feel totally embarrassed. But yeah, did you detect the level of

insecurity when I said that? I felt a little insecure saying that. Yeah. you were definitely like you my voice was quivering just ever so slightly as i was saying it it's sort of like when you're like trying to pronounce the name of a man you're like not so sure of uh yeah yeah same similar thing um let's talk about guitar solos ian uh rolling stone ran a list this week everyone's doing lists again i feel like there's been a lot of lists again new york times did their 30 best living songwriters, American songwriters

last week. I don't know if listeners out there saw that. It was a big feature that they did. We didn't talk about that on the show. We recorded early that week and I think it dropped. Yeah. Good point. Yeah, I was in Texas when that dropped. But this week, Rolling Stone ran a list.

I think it was probably an updated list of the 100 greatest guitar solos of all time. And I got to say that this kind of list is a little more fun to me. than like the living songwriters list because I feel like when you talk about like greatest living American songwriters there are a set of answers that you have to say

that are the correct answers and if you don't say it not only are you contrarian but it totally invalidates your list so for instance you've got to say Bob Dylan you got to say Bruce Springsteen you got to say Paul Simon you got to say Stevie Wonder you got to say Mariah Carey just kidding They said Mariah Carey on their list. Yeah, you got to say like, you know, Joni Mitchell.

Well, she's not American, though. She's Canadian. A lot of people made this mistake last week. They were saying, how can you not say Johnny Mitchell? How can you not say Neil Young? How can you not say Paul McCartney? And it's like, well, no, they're not Americans. But anyway, I feel like the guitar solos, when we think about best guitar solos, it's more wide open.

There aren't really that many solos that you, like, would have to say. Because even for like specific artists who are known for guitar solos, I don't know if there's like a definitive answer. Like Jimmy Hendricks. You could say any number of guitar solos for them. Like you could say the, like the Star's Bangled Banner. Exactly. Or you could say voodoo child or you could say, you know, well, let me read the top five of the Rolling Stone list. These are the top five, greatest guitar solos of all time according to Rolling Stone.

Number five, you have eruption by Van Heelan. Very obvious choice. Yeah, but I guess that gets into terminology, because if the entire song is a guitar solo, does that really count? Well, it's a guitar solo showcase that's about two minutes long. So I think it counts, but I hear you. I think that a solo ideally exists in a regular song, and it's not just a solo. I would have actually said beat it if I was going to pick an Eddie Van Halen guitar solo. I feel like that is his...

That's a good call. That's his most iconic guitar solo. It's funny with Van Halen because I feel like they're more known for riffs. Yes. Obviously, he's playing guitar solos, but in terms of famous solos, you know, beat it by Michael Jackson is probably his most famous solo. Well, that jump, which is a synth solo. Exactly, exactly. Number four, comfortably numb by Pink Floyd.

Number three, Hotel California by the Eagles. Underrated. Yeah, people want to, look, this is another one. People want to crap on the Eagles. I get it. You saw the Big Lubowski in college. You know, you hate the Eagles. Fine.

The end of Hotel California is objectively awesome. I'm sorry. It just is. It's really good. It sounds like Iron Maiden on Quailudes. Okay. Harmonized guitars. It's really good.

I'm sorry. And like, look, if you hate Don Henley, he had nothing to do with that part. That's Fingers Feltter, baby. That's Joe Walsh, Fingersfelder. I put this on... So I did my own list on my substack, stephenhyden.substack.com, evil speakers. I did 25.

I sure as hell put Hotel California on there. You have to. I'm sorry, it's good. Deal with it. The boomers were right about that one. Number two, Jimmy Hendricks machine gun. So kind of a deep cut. Going to Band of Gypsies for Jimmy.

But I mean, that's an amazing guitar show. Oh, yeah. I'm there. Of course. Number one, Purple Rain Prince. Can't really argue with that. It's great. Yeah, it's a good call because it makes you seem like not totally guitar world coded.

Right. So, yeah, it's like, it's not shock, but it's like, you know, the safe enough choice. So from my list, I'll just say some of them. I want people to look at my substack. So I'm not going to say the whole list, but some big ones that I thought that were not on the Rolling Stone list, that to me, I thought of immediately. Mike Campbell at the end of American Girl, Tom Petty, Mike Campbell has so many great outro guitar solos. Yeah. He's the outro king.

He's the closer. He is. I could have said Mary Jane's Last Dance there. I could have said Boys of Summer by Don Henley. That's Mike Campbell playing that solo. The chain, Fleetwood Mac, Lindsay Bucking, him. Come on. Awesome. Neil Young, like a hurricane, there is a Neil Young solo in the Rolling Stone list. I don't know

which one it was, but for me, like a hurricane is the one by Neil Young. You could also say Cortez the killer. Yeah. Probably. Or the Doug Mart or the built spill version of that song. There you go. More recent examples, because we are in a guitar solo deficient era, really. They're not as prominent really as they were in the classic rock era. But it possible Germany, Nels Klein, I feel like that is like the Alman Brothers blue sky of the 21st century. You know, just famous guitar solo. If you're into guitar solos, you love Impossible Germany. I'm also going to say Kurt Vile, waking on a pretty day.

I feel like that record was big for bringing guitar solos back into indie rock for a little bit because the war on drugs you know they come out with lost in the dream the following year that has like a notion between the waves great guitar solo uh the best one he does is strangest thing though strangest thing that's a couple that's the next record um and i'm thinking of a place also on that same album so are you a guitar solo guy ian i feel like the emo world well they put the middle on their list jimmy world that was a surprise Maybe not to you. That's a great solo.

Even bigger surprise, they gave credit to guided by voices I Am a Tree as the inspiration behind it. But I was thinking, like, that's a great guitar solo. It's very easy, not easy to play, but, like, that's one you could, like, pick up off tab. Yeah, they put geese at 98. I like the spirit, but, like, I can't think of what the getting killed guitar solo sounds like. I mean, yeah, I'm like, not as much of a guitar guy as you are. But that being said, you know, my scope of reference doesn't go beyond 1993, but there were still a lot of guitar solos back then.

Oh, yeah. I'm a little disappointed. They picked mayonnaise over Cherab Rock. Cherab Rock, that's the solo right there. Oh, yeah. The hand-manipulated tape flange. I'm a little surprised they also didn't include Bulls on Parade. Do they have any Tom Morello solos?

I don't know. I'd have to go and look at the list. Speaking, going back to Smashy Pumpkins for a minute, I love the solo at the end of rhinoceros. Ooh. Gish. I think that would probably be my favorite Billy Corgan guitar solo. Or muzzle, here is no why.

I mean, that guy solos on top of solos. But I feel like Cherebrook, that entire song, like, you know, as annoying as Billy Corgan gets nowadays, like every time he talks about pavement or, like, indie gatekeeping, you listen to Chara Brock. I'm like, oh, man, he had a point about all that stuff. Yeah. Well, that's unimpeachable. Yeah. But, you know, beyond that, like, you know, guns and roses, I think November rain.

You got to do that one. That was, that's probably my number one for me. The video. You got to take into account the video. Well, and he, and slash, well, the thing about November rain, because, okay, so on the Rolling Stone list, they have Sweet Child of Mine as their guns and roses slash entry. Great solo. I can't argue with that too much, yeah.

Great solo. I think if I were to rank my own list, I think November rain is probably my number one because it's not just one solo, it's three solos. Yes. And you get the solo at the end, which is the most famous one, the Layla style solo, which is awesome. My favorite solo is the first one. And that's the one in the video where he's outside the church.

Yes. And like the helicopter or whatever is zooming over him. that's such a beautiful like composed solo and then the one in the middle is good but it's totally overshadowed by the giants yeah middle child yeah it's the middle child but November rain it gives you three solos uh maybe it cancelling itself out boat splitting you know I guess so I because to me it's like I would make my own list just ranking November rain guitar solos like that would have been my and I would have written 10,000 words on just those three solos um probably not as much engagement for that piece.

I don't know. Pitch that to guitar world, man. Not technical enough, though. I wouldn't be able to write for them. But at any rate, let's get to our mailbag segment here. It's the first mailbag of the Amazon era. We've just been way too talkative.

We always put mailbag on the outline, and then it ends up getting cut. Finally getting into it this week, we could definitely use some more emails. Hit us up. It's the same address as all. ways, Indicastmailbag at gmail.com. Ian, you want to read our first email?

Yeah, because this one's about me. It is. Dear Steve and Ian, great to have you both back on the air. Well, wait, hold on a sec. Do we have who sent this? I don't think we have the... No, I don't... Read the thing and I'll pull it by the end.

All right. So it's a public holiday Monday here. So I'm assuming this is one of our non-American listeners. and so I've been remembering some guys. I love it. My wanderings took me back to previous pitchfork darlings and BNM awardees, the thermals, no age, and twilight sad. As I was listening to their classic albums,

I was browsing through their subsequent reviews to see when they dropped off. And lo and behold, in each case, the guy who brought in to the liver of the first pant was, yo boy, Ian Cohen. They were thermal's desperate ground to 5.0, no aides and object, 6.2. And the Twilight says, nobody wants to be here, no way wants to leave 5.8.

My question for Ian, myself, is, was the Pinchfork Dudd review, particularly of a former favorite, an honor bestowed to the longest running site contributor or it's sure that Ian graciously took the heat for? And a related question is a PAN review typically something you pitch to your editors to vent your dissatisfaction with the record,

or do your editors come to you because the site needs a review on something nobody likes. So to... Hold on one sec. So just to make clear, This is from Don. It says Don from Tokyo via Melbourne.

So an incredible... Globet line. Yeah. So I guess you're from Australia originally and you live in Tokyo now. So amazing. Amazing dateline. I'm glad we got that in there. Anyway, you were saying.

And given their background, I'm kind of surprised they didn't include copies for your mind in there as well, which is from that very same time period. So good eye. And, you know, whatever ambivalence, I want. once had towards Pitsford getting a comment section. Seems to be going okay in practice. And it's exactly for people like Don. Like this, Don, you are being rewarded.

You can bring this remembering some guys action in there. Because by the way, these reviews that they mentioned, like there is like one or two people who are commenting on the 2013, 2014 reviews, just like a number. That's it. It's the same person. But, um, look, that era of time, like let's say 2012 to 2014, um, Yeah, I was reviewing those albums, but I was reviewing everything. Like, that is what got me to where I'm the most prolific reviewer in pitchfork history by like 200,

although Philip Sherburn is really bringing up the rear. He might catch me in five years. And this is the era that inspired one of my favorite bits, which we have not revisited since the first time, which is where you ask me if I reviewed this album and I say yes or no. Oh, yes. And it's like, that was a great bit. But, you know, with these records, these are indicative

you call them pans but I think they're occupying this middle space which really doesn't exist a whole lot anymore because I think most people when they're pitching reviews they want to review something they like or something that you know

or they want to review something they really really don't like and want to have some fun with it both a pan and both the best of the music are fun in their own way because you see like the hype it generates but the the 5.8 to 6 point five from a non a lister that's really fun at not it's fun and interesting because you get to juggle like what used to work and what doesn't work now so it's not just all praise and it's not

just all panning and you know that's for the real hoopers right there these reviews very very very rarely happen for a non a lister and so um yeah i i miss doing those i really really do but i also think that was indicative of like a time where I was a staff writer and they were publishing, I think, five reviews a day. And so I just bring my knowledge of the records I liked. So I miss them. Yeah, I mean, I think you had a rep for being the hammer back then. I did. Yeah, they bring you in. You were like the goon, you know, to rough up the Charles Oakley, yeah. The opposing team. And, well, look, I think a lot of critics are afraid to do that, especially if it is a band that has had some favor in the past.

They don't want to put their name out there and say that this new thing isn't as good. So I think it's a testament to you that you were the guy to do that. I think a lot of other people maybe cowering under their desks but you came out with guns blazing

or not blazing, you know, because you're giving them still like a mid-score. Like medium blazing, I guess in these reviews. I'll read the next email. This comes from Luke, who I don't know if he told us any other information. Please tell us where you're from when you write us, especially if you're in Tokyo and you used to be in Australia. Because it makes our show look really worldly when people are over the globe listening to us.

This is from Luke. I recently started listening to the band Ween. Excellent. I read that Apex Twin was a fan of their album, The Molysk. And I immediately started listening because I was curious. I have since become obsessed with this album. One thing I noticed is that the title track reminded me a lot of the band Tenacious D, a band I haven't listened to since high school and never particularly liked.

So even then, did you not like them then? I know. I don't know. Do you think Tenacious D is, was just a wean rip-off? Do you think he's adequately accounted for theist influence? I assume you mean Jack Black. Kyle Gass gets a free pass here. Jack Black's narrative singing style

Really reminds me of what Wien are doing I'm all for influence But in this case, Wien seem to be doing something so original That I'm troubled by the similarities Love the show and so glad it's back I'm a writing instructor at university And I appreciate the integrity You bring to your game

I think he's just talking to me, Ian, there I don't think he has anything to say about your integrity Luke, thank you so much for the very nice words I appreciate it Do I think TNASD is ripping off Wien? I don't know if I'd say ripping off. I think they're probably inspired by Ween.

After all, Tenacious D is two guys. Ween is two guys. Tenacious D could be really filthy in their lyrics and they played hard rock and music. Ween could also be really filthy in their lyrics and play hard rocking music. I would say that I think Tenacious D, if they are inspired by Ween, are riffing on a very specific aspect of Wean. And by the way, I should say, since we're talking about Wean, that on my substance, stack. I'm sorry to keep bringing this up. But this week, I posted a huge feature on Ween where I reviewed all of their albums.

I also wrote about all their live records and also about a fair number of their bootlegs. Because there's a new box set out called Brown Box, put up by Rano Records, and it's all of the studio albums contained in one box. I wrote about all those records, but I also wrote about a lot of things that aren't in the box set. So if you're curious about Ween, that's a good place to go. Or if you already love Ween, you should read that too. Anyway, I think if you know anything about Ween, you know, like, they have a, they cover

like a wide spectrum of music and wide spectrum of emotions. And like the foul mouth hard rock thing is kind of like a narrow sliver of what they do. They also have music that, you know, it's kind of funky or sometimes they have music that's like more psychedelic. Sometimes they have music that's like actually pretty. straightforward, almost singer-songwriter music that is really sad and melancholy. And Tanish D.N.H. St. doesn't really go into any of those areas. So, you know, I'm inclined to think of them less as a rip-off as maybe as a band that is

drawing on a specific aspect of Wien and making it much more broad and accessible maybe to the average person who might not have the temerity or the endurance. to take a band like wean if that makes sense do you have any thoughts on this again yeah like my first thought is that a university writing instructor getting into wean because the apex twin has to be one of the craziest whine fan origin stories i've ever heard i love it yeah typically it's like i turn 16 you know and someone put like chocolate and cheese on or something like that but yeah moll is my personal favorite as well and i'm going to allow uh luke to group them in with tenacious d because The mollusk and 12 Golden Country Grates were in constant rotation when the first Tenacious D came out.

That was what me and my degenerate friends got together to like drink and listen to before we go out and drink some more. By the way, this was 2001. The first Tenacious D came out came out two weeks after 9-11. Really helped our country heal. I didn't know it was that. I knew it was 2001. I didn't know it was after 9-11. That's incredible.

Yeah. It was that. This is it. and a burned copy of Andrew WKs, I get wet. But I think that I get the feeling, and Steve, you would probably know more about this than me, that if you told either of the guys in Ween that they sound like Tenacious D, they would hate it so much.

Because I think that, like, Tenacious D is more kind of close to, like, weird owl in that they do parody, but it's always, like, kind of funny and always kind of warm. Like, you know, you can play, like, fucker gently, and it's not really going to offend anybody, but you cannot say the same about piss up a rope. And this gets to your point about how wean covers a broad spectrum of sounds but emotions. And like a lot of times the emotions are like really dark and grim.

Ween is just some of the most bad vibes music that ever has been, you know, has ever generated a fan base. And so. Well, that's the thing because they get compared, like whenever there's a new like wacky, funny indie band

people always bring up ween and I'm just like do you listen to ween because they're not really like the goofball wacky band and I won't say specifically bands that have been mentioned in Wien's

in the context of Wien like recent bands because I don't want to reignite anything but I I get so annoyed when I see that because it's just it's like comparing them to to Frank Zappa because there's guitar solos and profanity. I mean, there's not really anything else that they have in common, but I don't know.

They're a hard band to classify in a lot of ways. I think the only band of like maybe the or the only artists of the past 15 years that has that same sort of emotional baseline of Wien, and I know this is, you know, this is, this might not be any, like this might be as insulting in its own way as a taseousy comparison, but Ariel Pink, in that they take a lot of, like, old, like, kind of corny, quote unquote music and make it their own. And just the vibes are so bad most of the time. Like, that's the old, that's like the closest comparison I could get to. But I think 100 Gecks to me is, has some wean qualities. I think so. That's good. And that they take a lot of junk culture

and they repackage it and they put a spin on it that like a lot of times like wean, especially of their early records was taking music that was kind of shitty and doing like the best possible version of it. And we're in a way they're making fun of it, but they're also showing like how this could be good. You know, like a song like Nicole, which is like almost predicting like what sublime is going to become like four years after they did that song. There's like a lot of examples like that in their catalog. And I think 100 gecks gets at that a little bit. But even someone like, this is Lorelei, like Nate Amos, who, has talked about Ween being an influence and about how a lot of times,

because he does a lot of different genre experiments in his music, and how he was really inspired by the Ween approach and also what the Beatles were doing on the White album, where they were almost like, yeah, doing like parodies of different genres and that being an entryway into doing these kind of different kinds of songwriting experiments. Like Nate Amos being more on the sort of like writerly side of Ween, you know, the less vulgar. The white pepper, yeah, maybe.

Yeah, yeah. But even like chocolate and cheese. Like the more, like the smart elements of that record, I think you can hear. And this is Lorelei, for sure. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So I'm not going to try to go Mog mode.

I had to look up this band's, this project's name that and learn how to pronounce it. This breaks, my pick this week breaks from our, usual recommendation corner metrics and that it came out sometime last year already a good bit of hype around it made some year endless um i'm talking about nina geraci's i love my computer um and i like this is more like hey if you haven't listened to this you might uh want to check it out so this is an album that's sort of kind of a concept album about being uh just this indoor kid in australia in the early 2010s and obsessed with like your computer uh like being online playing on FL Studio.

And it didn't hit me recently until I started hearing it in the context of some of the other stuff I like this year, like underscores or Slater. And now it's pretty much all I'm listening to. It definitely would have been my number two of 2025 next to getting killed. And I expect this to be on decade lists. So this is more like, hey, if you're a listener and you like typically are like, you know, checking out our porch music and emo recommendations, do this because I think it's a a choreish, like true album of music of a genre that typically work better as singles or

novelties. I'm thinking about like the Porter Robinson or Median songs that I like, but never really hit me as an album. It's sort of like the 2010s EDM pop answer to Jane Remover's Frailty, which was another example of like, I didn't think this was an album format, but it is now. Really fun stuff. Heartwarming too, a lot of a really good emotional appeal on that. it doesn't treat people who spent their youth on computers as like inherently messed up. It's like that's just normal. So Nina Geraci, I love my computer and I love this album. So I want to talk about a book this week in my recommendation corner.

It's called Won't Back Down Heartland Rock in the Fight for America. And it's written by one of my favorite rock writers right now, Aaron Osmond. And you might know her name from a book she wrote several years ago now, writing with the ghost, which is the biography of Jason Molina. Jason Molina, of course, someone that we've talked a bit about on this show, former Songs Ohio and Magnolia Electric Company frontman who died tragically in the early 2010s, and has really had this incredible afterlife as an influential singer-songwriter. And Aaron was really ahead of the curb in like writing a biography of him. And it just feels like one of those books that's going to endure for years as

people discover the music of Jason Molina. And that book is just great and it's really heartbreaking. But Aaron did a great job writing it. She also wrote a great 33 and a third book about the first John Prine album that I think also gets into a lot about Chicago and like what was going on in that city when John Prine first started making a name for himself. So I've been a fan of her books for a while and this is her latest book. And as you can tell from the title, it's a book.

it's a book about Heartland Rock in the 1980s. And this obviously has appeal to me when I was writing my book about Bruce Springsteen. There's a part in that book where I write about Heartland Rock in 1985. And I write about like John Mellencamp and Tom Petty and Brian Adams and Dire Straits. And it's more about like how Heartland Rock became more of a vibe. You know, something that you used to describe like a set of musical signifiers, which is I think how people use it today. like when they talk about the war on drugs or any number of bands in that style.

Aaron in her book is really taking a more in-depth look at that kind of music and writing about it from like a sociopolitical lens. So talking about like what that music represented in the 1980s. And she, you know, writes about a lot of the artists I just mentioned, but also kind of delves into the minutia and like talks about like a lot of artists and bands that don't get their due really now, like the Bodine's and lone justice and all the way down to bands that like I've I've seen their album covers and stores but I don't know a ton about them. So it's just like a really fascinating and comprehensive look.

It's part history lesson and also just part exploration of this kind of music that's going to have you kind of digging into other records and exploring that. So again, the title is called Won't Back Down, Heartland Rock and the Fight for America by Aaron Osmond. Really good book. recommend you check it out. But does it cover the Hooters and we danced? You have to find out. You got to buy a copy. Look in the index.

That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news, reviews, and hashing out trends next week.