Indiecast - Cameron Winter's New Live Album + Turnstile's "SNL" Fallout

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

Steven and Ian begin with a quick Sportscast on the Brewers vs. Padres playoffs series (2:27) before discussing the legendary "Indiecast bump" that possibly caused reunions for the braintrusts of Deerhunter and Drive-By Truckers (11:21). Then they discuss Turnstile's appearance on "SNL" and some of the stranger reactions on social media (22:20). After that they cover new releases by Jess Williamson, Teenage Fanclub, and The Tallest Man on Earth (35:20) before discussing Cameron Winter's new live album recorded at Carnegie Hall (44:39). In Recommendation Corner they discuss new albums by Margo Cilker and 300SkullsAndCounting / Jenny Sparks.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indicast is presented by Amazon Music. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about Deer Hunter getting the Indycast bump, turnstile and SNL in the horrible discourse about it, and a new Cameron Winter live album. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host.

He has to move to Milwaukee now after the Brewers beat the Padres, Ian Cohen, Ian, how are you? I mean, I'm not really, that doesn't sound as much of a threat as you might think it does. I don't think it's a threat. That is like, I love Milwaukee, great American city.

I feel like maybe you would look at it as a threat though. No, we got people. Yeah, we know, we got peoples in Milwaukee and Madison. I would like not be, I would kind of be down with that. And I mean, I got to find out, though, what your like how you wear hats right because i mean i think that everything that is san diego crystallized in the one good moment uh san diego had during this series which was uh tom de long crying uh after they played all the small things when the padres won the one game and it's like

yeah the most san diego like nothing is more san diego than a 50 year old man in the most rigidly flat brim backwards his hat crying to blink 182, even if he is in blink 182. So I think I'm brave. We've had that and also Arizona weather for like the past month. It's been like a hundred degrees every single day. So we're getting like San Diego, but also Arizona here. I'm ready for something else. You know, especially as I'm doing like a Midwest emo book, this could be a good way to boost my market share in the Midwest. Yeah, I mean, look, Milwaukee right now, a beautiful time of year. to go to Milwaukee, you get that fall, weather, you know, that stretch from, say, like, September to about mid-October.

Once you get into late October, then crazy enough, you start to run the risk of getting snow. I mean, here in Minnesota, I feel like we've had snow on Halloween the last couple years, or at least two out of three years. I'm actually going to Milwaukee next week. All you listeners, I'm doing a Midwest tour for my book. I'm going to be in Milwaukee, Chicago, and Madison. I'm going to be in Milwaukee on October 14th at Boswell Books. Please come out if you're in the area.

This Brewers playoff run, it's just peaking with my Milwaukee nostalgia. Because I lived in Milwaukee for, let me think, about seven and a half years. It was 2006. I moved there in September 2006, and I left in like February or March of 14. So yeah, about seven and a half. half years. I just want to remember some guys from Milwaukee right now. Shout out to call me lightning. Shout out to the good night loving. Shout out to the championship. If I had a high-fi, kings go forth, all of the Milwaukee music scene favorites from the aughts in early 2010s. Jail?

Shout out to Jail. Oh, yeah. I remember that. You know jail, right? I know jail. So I'm just loving Milwaukee right now. Feeling really. good. Like I said, I'm also going to be in Chicago. I'm going to be at Exile in Bookville. Great store name. I've never been there, but great reference to the Liss Fair record. I'm going to be there with Josh Terry, friend of the show. He's going to be moderating with me. Again, that's October 15th. That's Thursday next week. And look, I'll just say it. I'm fully prepared for all the Bears fans out there who listen to Indycast. coming out and just giving me grief because the Packers and Bears play this weekend.

I'm fully prepared for a horrible beatdown. We're going to get destroyed by the Bears. Bears look great. Caleb Williams is hurt. Doesn't matter. They're just throwing in different quarterbacks every week. They're a juggernaut. Meanwhile, our team, you got Matt LaFleur who's like, I'm sorry to speak this way.

I'm not normally this kind of man. He is so beta. He is the most beta male, imaginable. And meanwhile, you got Ben Johnson, who I hate, but I wish he was my coach. He has just humiliated Matt LaFleur. I feel like he has stolen the mojo, perhaps permanently from Matt LaFleur. And maybe this weekend will be the culmination of that. I'm just expecting a terrible beatdown.

If you're going to come out to see me in Chicago, Indiecast listeners, just remember I'm being very differential to your team right now and look if you're a Packer fan I'm just being real okay don't accuse me of sucking up you know I'm right we're terrible the Bears are looking great so just be nice to me if you come out you can trash talk me a little bit though like I'll write nice things about Ben Johnson in your book if you ask me to autograph it just come on out and see me your team is in the toilet too the Eagles rancid vibes oh my gosh

Like Jalen Hertz, like what happened? What happened to this guy? He's, I mean, look, two Super Bowls. He's played well in the playoffs. You can't call him a bum, but man, it's painful watching your team. They are like three and out, like three and out, three and out. I actually, man, Sunday was like a terrible day for all things, Ian Cohen. I mean, sports-wise, you know, I went and saw O'Mary, which is a Broadway play that has

been taken off Broadway. And during that, it was like at a 1 o'clock show, and the Eagles were up 20 to 10 somehow. Like, they got out game two to one, making all these penalties. And I'm like, they're still losing this game. And they can't get two yards on a fourth and two. And then the Rams in quick succession, go ahead and beat them. Like they would if they had more time during that playoff game where the Eagles won the Super Bowl. They can't run.

They can't pass. The defense is bad now. And look, the one thing I do love about the Eagles ownership and brain trust is that they are not loyal. They move on. Like Doug Peterson was gone two years after that Super Bowl victory. And I think that there is a non-zero chance that they absolutely clean house after this year. Like not just Sam, not just the offensive coordinator. They might move on from Hertz.

They might give the keys to Tanner McKee. they might get Declan Doyle, the guy at Baltimore who's just killing it right now. This team has just such bad vibes. It's unbelievable. Like they're not as bad vibe as the Chargers. And the Packers, I feel like they just have like a lot of injury bad luck. But, you know, maybe they're a coaching move away. But, yeah, I just cannot, I cannot with this Eagles team.

They have not looked good in any game this year. Yeah, Siriani. seems like someone where if he did get fired, they would just move him into the stands. And he would just become like another Philly guy yelling at the teams and calling people MFers and

things like that. Because it's basically what he's doing on the sideline. He is like if I don't know the Philadelphia talk radio stations. Whatever sports talk radio caller, you know, the sort of personification of that, it feels like, oh, if we made that guy

the coach, then that would be the next Siriani is the coach. Because he doesn't, he's not the offensive coordinator, not the defensive coordinator. I mean, the thing that I feel like hamstrings your team is that you have to always hire these new coordinators if you have a good season. And then it just feels like you don't have any continuity that way. Whereas, you know, most teams, the head coach has some expertise. Like they're either in charge of the defense or charge of the offense.

But you have like two coordinators that it feels like it's a revolving door. and that feels like it's your problem. Yeah, absolutely. And by the way, what you imagine as the stereotypical Philly sports talk guy is exactly what you think it is. And perhaps it's like, oh, yeah, I think we need to, yeah, I think we need to trade Jalen Hertz and get Tom Brady to come back. And also, Randall Cunningham, what's he?

Like, just the most dumb, the most dumb stuff. I think that, like, Nick Siriani ain't that dumb. But I do think that your point about, like, what his next job would be. Like Kevin Petulow, the guy who was the offensive coordinator last year, he's the passing game coordinator for the dolphins. You're seeing how that's working out. Yeah, I do think we need to, like, fumigate the place. But maybe there's a shot.

They, like, sneak in at, like, 10 and 7 and just get their doors blown off by the bears again. I hate watching this team. Yeah. Well, I hate watching my team, too. although I did pay a bunch of money for the Sunday ticket so I could watch the game this weekend. I don't know why. Like way too much money. Like this NFL Sunday ticket is highway robbery.

But I needed to do it in order to, you know, because I'm getting the Vikings game in my local market. So I just paid a bunch of money to be beaten down. I think that's like sadomasochism, basically. I'm putting the ball gag in my mouth this weekend. Let's make a quick plug here for our bones. bonus episode, subscribers of Amazon music. You can listen to an interview I recently did with Joshua Hami of Queens of the Stone Age. They have a new album coming out at the end of the month called Perfect. I was in Los Angeles in September. I sat down with Joshua, as he is now called,

and had a great conversation. You can hear that exclusively right now on Amazon music. And yeah, go check it out. It was a fun interview. We've teased this a little bit. We didn't announce who it was. But yeah, big rock star figuratively and literally. Yeah, fashion model too. He did a fashion shoot recently with Ethel Cain or something like that. Yeah, in Paris.

So, yeah, looking good, man. He looked tough, man. That's like a rock-looking dude. Yeah, I felt very dumpy next to him, even more so than usual. but he was nice. You know, you're in the lobby before you start recording and you're having chit-chat.

And I was like, wow, this is Josh Hami. I've been listening to his records for like almost 30 years at this point. And he's not kicking the shit out of me. So I'm pretty happy about that. So yeah, definitely listen to that. Really good interview.

Ian, we need to take a little victory lap here. I'm deciding that I'm going to give us credit for this. Last week, we talked about Bradford Cox coming back after a long hiatus, performing his Atlas sound. And we were speculating on whether this meant that maybe he's going to come back, maybe even Deer Hunter might come back. And then lo and behold, we get this news this week that Bradford Cox and Lockett Punt, the other core member of Deer Hunter, the guitar player, the writer of desire lines, possibly the greatest ear hunter song.

They're going to be reuniting for a show at the Big Ears Festival in Knoxville, Tennessee. This festival, I guess you could call it like a kind of experimental music, although they do have some regular indie rock there as well as jazz music. They're really big on this concept known as Deep Listening. I don't know if you've heard of this Ian, which I guess means that you just listen, but you listen in a deep way, which is what I just call that listening myself. But anyway, deep listening, great festival.

They always have a ton of great artists playing there. But yeah, they're going to be at Big Ears, Lockett Punt and Bradford Cox. This is taking place April 1st to the 4th. So, look, I was talking about Deer Hunter on my substack, evil speakers. I had a deer hunter month this summer where I talked about a bunch of their records. But then we talked about it last week on the show, and boom, they're back. So should we be expecting lots of thank yous from our listeners for this? I feel like we've actualized this.

Yeah. And if it was just the deer hunter, Atlas sound thing, maybe that's a coincidence. But the indie cast effect has never been stronger than this week because we also talk about battles in our Hall of Fame episode, which is exclusive to Amazon, go check that out. And then boom, Don Caballero reunion for Prima Vera. And they're excited about it. So Prima Vera just continues to destroy Coachella. Another band that I talked about in Recommendation Corner, some images of Paradise.

They announced signing to the Los Campesinos label, another band that we've talked about a lot. And also this week, Indycast Hall of Fame shortlisted Hood, Coldhouse, 20th anniversary reissue. And most Indiccats of all, because I don't think anyone, has talked about this album more than us in the past five years. Razor Blade suitcase, getting the 30th anniversary deluxe edition. I hope it's a six CD box set where they have like a miced-up Steve Albini listening to the 25th take of Greedy Fly and just being like Livia Soprano like I wish the Lord would take me now.

I mean, is that for real? Are you joking about the Razor Blade suitcase? I am not. It comes out December 11th, just in time for Christmas, you know, for all the Bush people on your family list? Well, look, I mean, Albeini, rest his soul, wouldn't be on tape saying bad things about Bush

because he actually wrote the liner notes for like a different anniversary edition of Razor. Because there's multiple anniversary editions of Razor Blade suitcase. I think you can go online actually and read the liner notes that Steve Albini wrote, which were very nice. And he was always very

nice about Gavin Rossdale. So maybe they're going to revive those liner notes from beyond the grave, Steve Albini will be chiming in. I just love, though, that, you know, is there anyone that's going to buy, like, both anniversary editions of Razor Blade Suitcase? I mean, are we going to be getting, you know, like the Giles Martin remix of Razor Blade suitcase, you know, Beatles style?

Very curious about this. We might have to make that another Amazon music exclusive, the deep dive into Razor Blade Suitcase. Yeah, you tell me what else is going on on December 11th. That might actually have to be a main episode. I just love how like a six CD or like a box, like a deluxe deluxe edition, it's like, you know, Tom Wamsganz talking about like mind comp, like, oh, do you miss a few Easter eggs the first time around, you know? I don't know, man. I mean, it's funny.

I wonder if like Razor Blade suitcase has been more memorialized than 16 stone, which is the first Bush record. And that's the one that actually has all the hits on it. I don't know if we have to dig deeper into that. There's another big thing that happened that is tangential to our world, which is Jason Isbell, who holds a festival in Florence, Alabama every year. It's called Shoals Fest. And it's just the thing where he invites a bunch of bands to come down and play, and then he plays with his band, the 400 unit. This year, the big headline was Jason Isbell played a show with drive-by truckers for the first time since the mid-2000s.

Now, I should qualify this a little bit because this has been reported in various places. Isbel did do a acoustic show with Patterson Hood and Mike Cooley in, I believe, 2014, that was recorded for a live album that came out in 2020. So he's reunited with, like, the main guys in drive-by truckers, but in terms of playing with the band and playing a rock show, this is the first time since he either left the band or was fired. depending on who you talk to, in about 2006. And they played Decoration Day, which for many people is the greatest drive-by trucker's record. They played that album in its entirety. And there's been tons of videos of this. I've been watching them all week and just feeling like I wish I had gone to Alabama last weekend.

But this is another big thing for us. And it's interesting because I think people associate me as a Drive-Bied Truckers fan. but you actually lived in Georgia during this band's peak or at least their Jason Isbell peak so you might even be a bigger head than me or at least than that period

yeah longtime indie cast listeners might be surprised that there was a point where I might have been a bigger DBT guide than Steve now I have but like DBT means dialectical behavioral therapy in my in real life job PCP also means something different than it did before primary care provider.

Not, yeah, that is fun. Not is fun. But you're growing up. And that's important. Yeah. And yeah, I lived in Athens, Georgia. You know, shout to Heathens, where they capitalize the A in that song title. Nice.

Yeah, bracketed almost perfectly by the release of Decoration Day and a Blessing and a Curse. Blessing and a Curse came out in like April of 2006. So I didn't get to see them live. I had probably left Georgia by that point. But, man, those Decoration Day and Dirty South release shows at the 40-1, in Georgia theater. Both of them were on football weekends. Both times I got so hammered that I left my credit card at the bar and maybe made it

halfway through the show. Now, mind you, this is like a three-hour show. So, you know, I was like maybe getting 60 minutes in. Also, like my friends were into drive-by truckers as well. And there's like one recording, I think, from D.C. Where there's like a fight that breaks out and one of them is in the fight. Yeah, I was huge drive-by truckers person at that time. Yeah, decoration day is still my favorite.

It is kind of surprising that it didn't happen before now. Yeah, I was surprised too. Like I said, they did do that acoustic show over a decade ago now. But, I mean, the relationship between those guys has been positive for a long time. It was weird when Isbel left the band because, you know, as it's been well documented, he was heavy into, drinking and drugs at the time. And he was super young, too. I mean, he was, I think he was 22 when he joined the band.

And he's probably about 10 years younger than Patterson Hood and Mike Cooley. So a little weird at the beginning, but then they reconciled and they've been bros ever since. And they just haven't played together. I mean, you know, Isbel clearly has done very well on his own. He's probably bigger on his own than drive-by truckers are now. at this point, although they've both had a very kind of consistent career in the past 20 years. But yeah, I mean, you brought this up when we were talking about it over text, like other examples

of this of bands where you have a member that left. And it feels like they're so cool with them, but like they haven't really played together that much. And just thinking of examples of that, like with you, I was wondering, do you have any desire to see like Chris Walla with Death Cab for QD again? I mean, look, that would ever happen. Ben's my dude. Ben's my friend. You know, no Sun Kil Moon. But yeah, I mean, I would say that I would feel this maybe more strongly like five years ago before they made Asphalt Meadows and their new album because those ones are good. But man, like those Chris Walla albums. Like I can't believe that one didn't come up. Like I think Chris Walla lives in Norway now. And they seem like on good terms. But I don't think Chris really wants to be in a band anymore. I think that that split needed to. to happen but man those chris walla albums that's like my you know it the way i talked about like

decoration day through like uh blessing and a curse it's like man up till narrow stairs though his production's so good and it continues to be good but you know i also wondered about like isaac wood and black country new road like look man like i know it's the most guy guy opinion imaginable uh but yes i do like their super in emo incarnation more than what they're doing now i also thought about like Chad Hugo getting back with the Neptunes although like I think it's probably poison I don't know like I don't know like that's not pros

that's not a you know because I was thinking you brought up like Rostom and Vampire Weekend yeah and I feel like that's another example like where it feels like it's still friendly and I I don't I'd have to look this up I feel like Rostom

has probably contributed to Vampire Weekend since then you know on the records I think he's either an official way or I'm sure Ezra's playing him stuff and getting his input. But in terms of them playing together on stage or having a formal reunion,

I think that would be interesting. I don't know if that would ever happen, but it also feels like it could very easily happen. Maybe they would do it at Shoalsfest. That'd be an interesting context for Vampire Weekend to be playing with, although I'm sure Isabel loves Vampire Weekend. I'm sure he'd be

like a fan of them. And maybe as, I don't know if Ezra's a, is Bell fan or not. To me, I was just thinking about Vampire Weekend playing in Alabama and that being kind of like an interesting juxtaposition. But yeah, they're more similar than they are dissimilar, probably in a lot of ways.

Hmm. I mean, I think we need to expand upon that in a future episode. Maybe so. Yeah. Is there any pedal steel on any Vampire Weekend records? I don't think that there is. Yeah, that's true. Probably father the bride. Probably on Father of the Bride, yeah. That's like their kind of jam band one.

Yeah. What about Brady Ebert in turn style? Do you think that will happen anytime soon? I mean, look, I like glow on more than the new record. I like the new record too. And look, as much as I would hate to force, you know, the guitarist who tried to commit vehicular homicide on the leads, allegedly, allegedly. Yeah.

Let's let the trial play out here. But yeah, he's accused of, you. using, trying to run over Brendan Yates's father. Yes. Look, I feel terrible for everyone involved. I don't want to make light of this.

I think it's terrible. I'm just saying as, from a subjective point of view, if we were talking about this like 50 years from now and just talking about classic rock history, like that's a pretty interesting story. You know, like if it weren't happening now,

but we were talking about, you know, the guitars from blue. Easter cult trying to run over the dad of the singer of Blue Easter cult, that'd be pretty cool. Or not cool, but interesting. Yeah. This is the sort of stuff you hear about in like, you know, Jerry Lee Lewis.

Like, like, back when, like, people, yeah, this is. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah, you don't hear this anymore. This is kind of like, yeah, like a Nick Tosh's biography. Like, this is what you would read about in a book like that. Not now. But anyway, this is a segue.

I deliberately mention that. because I wanted to segue to a conversation about Turnstile and their recent performance on Saturday Night Live. This was last weekend. We didn't mention it ahead of time. I think I'd forgotten that they were playing on the show. I'm not really connected too much to the current season of SNL. I tend to find out about things after the fact.

But Turnstile was on the show, and there was a lot of coverage. First of all, about how this was the first hardcore punk band to be on the show in 45 years, which they were talking about fear. I don't know if you know the band Fear, Ian, from L.A. at early 80s. I only know them because they were on S&L and caused a lot of damage. Like, that's what they're known for, at least to me. Well, their first record, Fear, the Record,

I mean, that's a classic of early 80s punk. So they're heralded on their own, but certainly in the mainstream, that's their biggest exposure. I don't really know if they're like, I feel like they were just a punk band. I don't know if they were like a hardcore punk band. I don't know how we're defining this exactly the terminology here. But anyway, Turnstile was on.

And of course, there had to be discourse this week on social media about Turnstile. Coming from both directions, you had people saying, oh, this is going to inspire the kids out there, all the kids who watch SNL, which I don't know. Do kids watch SNL now, Ian? I mean, you're another guy in his 40s that I'm asking this to. Probably not the best person to ask. I don't know what the cultural penetration is for young people with SNL.

My kids actually watch SNL. I've watched old clips with them. But I don't know if, like, they'd be watching. They don't watch the show live. Oh, okay. That was my first question. No, they don't watch it live. Anyway, you had people saying this is going to inspire young people to form

bands, which it might very well do, and, you know, that's a nice thought. And then you had, of course, the people who use this as another opportunity to relitigate whether Turnstile is a hardcore punk band, which, look, we've had this conversation numerous times on the show. I'll just go back to my own thing. I hate this argument. I, like, the whole kind of punk purity thing is so annoying to me. And I just feel like, I understand why people in the punk world care about it, that

they look at Turnstile is coming out of their world. And I think there's a lot of people that take a lot of pride in the way that Turnstile has conducted their career and how in their own way, I think that they continue to sort of embody

the ideals of that scene, I guess. For me, sonically, I just feel like the punk label doesn't really matter. I mean, they've always just been a rock band to me, even going back to some of their earlier records, like with time and space, 2018. Like, that's a rock record to me. Not a punk record. I just feel like these arguments always start to feel like religious fundamentalism

at some point. You know, like, we're just like born again Christians arguing about, you know, who's a Christian and who's not, you know, but it's like the punk version of that. It's so tiresome. it's just like a bunch of 50-year-old guys arguing about this sort of thing. I don't know. You're more connected to this world than I am, though. Like, what do you feel about this? So my only real hot take on the matter is that, look, it doesn't have to be Brady Evert back in the band.

And look, with all due respect to Meg Mills, you've got to replace a bucket hat guy with another bucket hat guy if we're talking about a hardcore rock or punk band. You know, I know they're trying to transcend hardcore. but some things are still sacred. I mean, they've got the overly muscle-bound drummer now. Like, that guy got super jacked. You know, the bassist who does fashion shows, like the other guy who's, you know, they all look good. I mean, I think that's the most revolutionary thing Turner Style did in many ways is be like a conventionally attractive hardcore band.

Right, yeah, exactly. No shade, man. I mean, the music's awesome. I love it. Well, and also, I mean, it's not just a bunch of jacked white guys with tattoos. I mean, they're an integrated band racially. They're an integrated band in terms of gender. You know, they are like this picture of diversity in a lot of ways.

And I think that's another thing that people love about them. And maybe that's also one of the things that angers some people. I don't know. Or maybe that inadvertently reads as soft to others, you know, because they aren't the sort of stereotypical, like, hard-ass-looking punk band. Yeah. But that's also why they bring out. Yeah, like the New York got like, because the funny thing is like all these like real punk guys talk about like how every single person they, you know, loved back in the day became this like reactionary Long Island maga dude.

It's like, well, yeah, I mean, the pipeline's pretty clear. But and maybe this is just projection on my end because like I'm really, really deep in my book and like work stuff. But it just felt like a lot of the arguments happening with turnstiles, especially now, now that we're like five. years removed from glow on. It just didn't feel like anyone's hearts are in it, you know? Like, people were bringing up, like, when people were saying, yo, more like Coachella Core or softcore, actually the Beastie Boys played a hardcore song in 1994. Right, right.

I saw it like so, like, AFI, yeah, they were a hardcore band at some point, but they played like Miss Murder in like 2007. Look, I just didn't, and this has been true with a lot of things in the discourse, with 2026. I just don't think people's hearts are in it, man. They're just like cranking out like these ghost takes, like, you know, these Viking funerals that are just being pushed out to sea and already dead. I will say that like, I think people like were more spirited when they talked about knock loose being on Kimmel because that's just like a different sort of cultural signifier. By the way, if you have not seen the knock loose live performance on Jimmy Kimmel Live, it is one of the best of

the decade. It is so awesome. And I hope S&L raises the stakes and gets them on there. Yeah, I mean, I just feel like if you're getting too hung up on the terminology, I think you need to check yourself a little bit. And, you know, it doesn't really surprise me that there is that, like you said, that sort of line from the punk world to like right-wing politics. Because I do think that for the people that get overly hung up on the semantics of punk or on this sort of rigid value system,

that that is very easily transferable to religious thinking or political thinking, that if you draw the line so hard that, oh, if you look a certain way, or you have a certain production style, or you know, write certain kinds of riffs, that you're not this thing, you're not this great thing.

Again, to me, that's just like born-again Christian type stuff. It's not really anything to do with music. And it just defeats the purpose, I think, of what music is, which is about communication and reaching out to people. And entertainment, you know, like they're an entertaining band. And that is above all the reason why they've been successful. They write fun rock songs. There aren't a lot of bands that just write, like, riffy rock songs that you can play loud, played by guys with no shirts on, you know, that also don't completely suck. You know, like, they're in that niche, and I think that they're really good in that niche, and I'm glad that they're there.

Speaking of this, this is a quick segue. We can go back to what we were going to talk about. But have you listened to this band Haywire? I feel like they're the new kind of like crossover hardcore punk band. They're from Boston. Their record came out. I think last week, the album title escapes me. But I listened to this a little bit.

Like it sounded awful to me. Like the vocals sounded so processed. Am I missing something here? into this band? Yeah, I mean, I'm surprised you brought that up, but I'm like, I tried listening to it too because you would hear that like, yeah, Haywire, they're the ones who are, you know, kind of not necessarily being the next like turn style or what have you, but the same sort of from hardcore to getting side to roadrunner. And they're kind of melodic and they're kind of rocky. I listen to the record, man. And I'm like, it's called I don't want to say goodbye is the name of the

album. Yeah, I, maybe we're going to get like some, maybe we're going to get some like John Joseph style people on our ass, but yeah, I thought it was like, dude, I can't do this. Like, because like, I thought it was awful. Like the vocals I thought were so bad. I'm like, I thought it worse, it would be something like Gulch. Not at worst. I love that Gulch album. That route, that album rules there. This is hardcore performance like where they, their final one is awesome. But like, I expected something more along the lines of that where it's just like super violent it's not melodic and you don't think

okay maybe this is like the next turn style but like I see what's up I listen to this and I'm like dude I'm not even I don't think I made it four minutes I mean I'm kind of the same way which makes me you know I don't want maybe I'm being too harsh

and I should go back and give it more time I mean it's only a 19 minute record so it's not like a three hour album that you have to soak up over an extended period to get the point. But the vocals, it's not just that they're, you know, the sort of guttural style that you would expect for this kind of band. Is there like an auto tune on it or something?

Is there something like very processed, weird sounding about the vocals that I was just like, man, no, not for me, mate, not for me. And I just checked out. Andrew Socker, shout out to him. He reviewed it for Pitchfork and it seems like he likes the record. And that was why I felt like, oh, I want to check this out. And I was like, oh, no, no, sorry. Not for me.

So I don't know. If you love Haywire, write us and let us know. And I want to hear why people like this album. I could not get into it at all. We need the hardcore Boston beat down people to be on it. Like, yeah, we're going to like anger the bears. We're going to anger Boston beat down people. Like, you know, John Joseph's going to hit us up for like praising turnstile

because they just announced the show that they're doing at the Washington Monument to aid Palestine, Sudan, and Lebanon. Yeah, we're making enemies at this one. I was sucking up to Bears fans, I feel like, so they shouldn't be mad at me. But, yeah, I fully expect an angry-looking guy named Sully to be outside my house sometimes. Yeah, maybe the guy from Godsmack. Oh, yeah, exactly. Sully Erna is a, yeah. So, okay, so anyway, enough about that.

Let's talk about albums that are out this week, just doing a quick rundown of records that you can get at your local store and or streaming platform. Don Rashard, her record is out this week, Creole Culture. This is on my fantasy team, I think. Yeah. You know yours or mine, and I think it's yours this time. Which, man, look, God, I was thinking about this after we got done recording. That was a disaster for me. I was so, because I didn't prep at all.

I've been, look, I've been crazy busy lately. I've been, got book stuff, slammed on the newsletter. The prep last week, it just caught up with me for the podcast. So, like, for the draft, I had not prepared at all. And you just scooped up all of the records that I would have probably picked if I was at all prepared. Like, you got that twisted teens record. That's the one that really burns me that I didn't draft that one. But I did pick Don Rashard.

I don't think she has a score yet. So we'll see about that. Have you heard this record, Ian? I've not, but yeah, I mean, if you didn't pick it, I would. It was definitely like maybe a fourth or fifth draft pick. Because, yeah, she's always reliable. She's a bucket getter. Yep.

Death Valley Girls, Welcome to Earth, long-running underground rock band. I haven't really heard anything that they've done lately, but I've heard the classic material from Death Valley Girls. Yeah, I know of them. Yeah, cool band. Another cool underground band, Greta Van Fleet. Their new album is out today. Palace for the people.

They're still in the Zeppelin phase. That's a great Greta Van Fleet album title. It is. It is. You get the grandiosity of Palace. You get the populism of people. I think that just sums up Greta van Fleet right there. The single from this album, I reviewed it on my substack.

It's not good. Pretty bad. I've seen the video at 24-hour Fit. witness. And I'm like, wait a minute, is that Davey Haybuck? Like, you know, doing his like kind of hippie thing. It's not. I mean, I am surprised that they're still in the Zeppelin phase. Because, you know, when this band started, they were in their late teens. They're from Michigan. And I actually found their Zeppelin worship kind of endearing on the first record. I wrote about that album, Anthem, for a Peaceful Army, I think is the name.

of the album. And it was so ridiculous that I, but also kind of sweet to me that, oh, there's still teenage boys in the Midwest that just love Led Zeppelin and they're obsessed with Led Zeppelin. And I think, I know I had that phase when I was a teenager where I got into Zeppelin and that's all I wanted to listen to for a while. But then, you know, you get over it and you start listening to other things. It's been like 10 years since that first record. Like, why aren't they into like 90s radio head by now or like early muse records you know what i mean like or like rage against the machine like i feel like you you need to have progressed to like other parts of the rock canon of like the basic rock bro canon and you're still on zeppelin it blows my mind i mean at least they could do

the like in through the outdoor type zepard i mean did they have a fool in the rain type song in Oh, man, no. See, that would be too, that's like so skillful. That'd be too skill. But they could have like a hot dog or Carousel Lambra type track. Carousel Lambra is like that. No, they would absolutely do a song like that. Because we want to make a 10-minute song. That's the starting point. Yeah, just insane. Just an insane 10-minute song. That would actually, that would get me back on board with Greta Van Fleet. Jess Williamson has a new album out called The Mile South of Heaven. Jess Williamson, I feel like she's best known for that band that she had with Katie Crutchfield of Waxahatchee,

the band called Plains that put out a record about five years ago. That did quite well. And then I think they had a falling out of some sort. I've been told that bored from the last Waxahatchie album is about her. But Jess Williamson, I like her records and I like this album. And it's produced by Scooter Jennings, son of Wayland Jennings, and he always does interesting projects. So I'm going to assume you have not heard this album. I have not heard this album.

Yeah, it's good. It's good. I like it. Teenage Fan Club has a new album out called Do Not Dare to Dream. Very respected, middle-aged indie rock band. I mean, Van Wagon-esque, one of the greatest albums of the 90s. songs from Northern Britain Great album, Grand Prix, great album

I mean they have a series of really good albums Their later period stuff I think is always solid Whenever I listen to it I don't spend a ton of time with those albums But I always enjoy teenage fan club And it's funny how they've really become Like a perennial influence Not a huge swath of indie rock

But I feel like I always hear At least a couple records every year there where I'm like, oh yeah, you just got into bandwagon-esque. You know, you're in your teenage fan club phase. I mean, in your corner of the world, I feel like a lot of emo bands eventually graduate to teenage fan club at some point. Yeah, I'm going to say something that's probably going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. And, you know, much respect to teenage fan clubs, like early stuff, I'm glad they became something other than the band that spin picked as like the number one album of 1991 over Nevermind and Loveless. But also, I'm not. Also, I'm

say that at least in the emo sphere, teenage fan club, one of the most poisonous, pernicious influences, man. I remember what 2018 was like. It was a lot of like emo and punk bands trying to make this mid tempo pop songs and it was

just so dull. It was so dull because like, yeah, if you're like a songwriter and you can write hooks and whatnot, then yeah, you obviously do the power pop. But oh my God, there was so much dull emo slash punk modeled after teenage fan club from like 2016 to

2021, man. Ugh. I'm like, I'm like not like not there's a lot of, well, I'll just be very clear about this here. If it wasn't teenage fan club, it's going to be shoegaze because that happened. It was like they were in a while. Oh, there was a while where like Bruce Springsteen. Like there's going to be terrible emo and punk bands all gravitating to. with something or other.

But yeah, it just so happened to be Teenage Fan Club for a couple years. Yeah, I mean, I feel like that vocal style from Teenage Fan Club is pretty easy to emulate. It isn't that far removed from the emo voice if you just don't shout, but you do it in a softer kind of way. That's slightly whiny type vocal. Like, it's in that Teenage Fan Club zone. And then you just get the fuzzy guitars and you can kind of copy the sound. But like you said, if you don't have.

actually have the song. It falls apart and gets a little boring. Tallest Man on Earth, new album, just beyond Endless Mountain. Tallest Man on Earth, a folk outfit. I think he's Swedish. He is Swedish. And I feel like I should have remembered that

because I was a fan of Tallest Man on Earth in the 2010s. I'm trying to remember the record that I really liked. There was a record that I put. The Wild, something or something. The Wild Hunt. Thank you. Love him. Yes. I really like that record of time.

Have not revisited it. It feels like a product of its moment, a post-Bunny Bear, acoustic singer-songwriter guy type thing. He's more in a Bob Dylan, like a young Bob Dylan type vein, I would say. I don't know what his current records sound like, but that was like the classic tallest man on earth. But yeah, you know, that's sort of like day-trotter era of Indy, which we've talked about before. for and I have affection for there's a lot of music from that time that I like or at least that I liked at the time

I'm guessing that you don't have much to say about Talas Man on Earth either yeah I did listen to that 2010 album like because you know when I don't know what I want to listen to sometimes I'll like look back at 2008 or 2010 just like year end list from times past it's like oh yeah I don't think I really gave that one a chance and

yeah I'm if I wasn't into it super into, like, if I wasn't super into this in 2000, then I'm definitely not going to be into it now. But, you know, what if this is the guy who's making CaloCel Rombra in 2026? Oh man. Well, you know,

if he's doing the Dylan thing still, I would hope that he would do maybe his murder most foul. That would be amazing. A 17 minute song about the JFK assassination. Let me know if he does that on this record. I haven't heard it yet, but holding out hope

for that. The big record, this week, at least for our corner of the world, is live at Carnegie Hall, the new live album from Cameron Winter. This was recorded last year at Carnegie Hall, December of 2025. It was filmed by Paul Thomas Anderson with the assistance of Benny Safdi for a movie that is currently on tour throughout the country. And it is literally on tour. It's going from like one city to the next. So you can't just go to your theater and see it. You got to like wait for it come to your town. I don't know if that's going to change at some point. I'd assume this will be streaming somewhere. Maybe it's not coming to my area. Is it coming to San Diego? Do you know?

You know, with these sort of things, either the first date on the tour is San Diego, because like you want to get like kind of a practice round in before you play the real show that matters in L.A. Not to my knowledge. But he is playing next Tuesday at, since the Padres aren't going to be using Petco Park. They're playing at the venue that's attached to Petco Park this day. Are you going? I don't know if I can make it this Tuesday. Look, I love Geese, would love to go.

The Halloween show I saw last year, one of my favorite in the past five years, but I'm hoping that maybe kind of sort of. We'll see. Yeah, yeah. So this album was actually pretty widely bootlegged. I feel like almost immediately after this show was performed. I actually had someone reach out

and I wish I remembered your name if you're listening. Thank you so much. They actually sent me a cassette of the audience tape for this show, and he made his own album cover for it. That was actually better than what ended up being the album cover for this official release. But it was a pretty famous show, I feel like, from the beginning of when it was performed. Just because, you know, this was at the end of this year where Geese became a huge band. There was sort of a slow-burn success for the first Cameron Winner.

record heavy metal and he didn't play I don't think any other I think he played like a handful of other maybe solo shows last year but this is a pretty unique uh gig for him at the time at the absolute kind of peak of this band blowing up and it's interesting to me listening to this album because you think okay Cameron winter at Carnegie Hall it's him by himself he's playing the piano this is a very kind of classic, almost like retro way of presenting a singer-songwriter. You know, you think of like Bob Dylan performing at Carnegie Hall, like in the early 60s, or, you know, other great artists of that kind. And I think it's to this album's credit that it doesn't come up as pretentious or precious.

Because I can easily imagine this record feeling that way, especially when you consider that Cameron Winter is basically, playing heavy metal live. You know, he doesn't have a whole lot of other solo material, although there are three songs on this record that are not on heavy metal, and they're all great, by the way. But I'm listening to this record, and one of the things that impresses me about it is the fact that it's not annoying

hearing him this way. And I'm sure, look, I'm saying this as a person who loves geese, who loves Cameron Winter. I'm sure there will be people who roll their eyes at, like, oh my God, Cameron Winter at Carnegie Hall. Like, oh, he has one record out by himself. He's already getting this kind of treatment. But I have to say that for me, listening to the record, I'm like, oh, no, it kind of justifies it.

I mean, it totally works for me. The album essentially is like an MTV unplugged album, but at Carnegie Hall. Like, it's just Cameron Winter by himself with the piano, playing the songs from heavy metal. There's also an element to it. I want to see how you feel about this. It almost feels like, I could see this record almost supplanting heavy metal for a certain kind of audience.

Maybe an audience that isn't a hardcore fan, but it's more of a casual listener to Cameron Winter. Because this feels a little, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but it's a little bit like the Nora Jones Starbucks version of Cameron Winter. It's like the pretty piano, straightforward, The songs are still pretty odd, but it sands away a lot of the strangeness.

And it's just like, oh, these are pretty songs on a piano. And if you are that kind of like, whatever the equivalent of a Nora Jones listener would be in 2026. And no shots at Nora Jones. Seems like a very lovely person. But I feel like this record is that. And maybe that would be a negative for some people. I really love this record. my only criticism of it is that it doesn't have like the rock and rollness of it that I love of Cameron Winter in the geese guys.

But if you like the singer-songwriter Cameron Winter, the more sort of austere pretty Cameron Winter, this is the record for you. Does that make sense to you, Ian? It absolutely does. And yeah, Nora Jones is a good comparison. But like what this sounded like to me, sometimes like when I'm in my wife's car and like she, she's driving and not me like she'll have like a rufus waynwright song on right um and that's kind of what this is and i'm like a little surprised about like because how good his voice sounds you know because it's like he has a great voice which is not necessarily the same thing as having a good voice

but you know just him and a piano and it sounds like really classy in a way that heavy metal never did even in its most stripped down um yeah this is like a capital L. legacy bid, not just like a live album, but live at Carnegie Hall. And one thing I appreciate about Cam Winter, and I think you would probably feel the same way, is that him and Geese in general just understand the big picture, like the thing around the music. I mean, look, maybe it's just the influence of, you know, me reading your book about the Strokes and Chuck Klossman's book about like the Velvet Underground. But yeah, there's like a confidence. to what Cameron Winter and Geese does that feels so at a step with the current day that even though, like, look, I'm a geese more than solo Cammer Winter guy.

I love his whole thing, but, you know, my taste mandate, I need the rock band counterbalance to it. But, yeah, I do think that there's just maybe even something generational or like a shift that I saw an article a few months ago about how, quote, toxic confidence has become the new quote, imposter syndrome. And, you know, just about like how people aren't like terribly self-deprecating anymore. And it just kind of kind of conflated the actual con men with not automatically thinking you don't deserve the success you've got. And that seemed to conflate like Geese to use PR and Geese is a sigh up to me. Like, Geese wants it. You know, Cameron Winter wants it. He wants to play Carnegie Hall.

Like they act like Saturday Night Live and Rolling Stone and Olivia Rodriguez pictures are their destiny. And I think that was so rare when getting killed came out, especially after like, you know, the past six years or whatever that. Like, it just struck. That was like the most divisive confrontational thing about him. The one thing I will also point out about this record that really stood out to me is not just that like I do think it could be a bigger deal amongst a certain type of listener. But now that like his lyrics are front and center, we will absolutely see kind of like Craig Finn. Like whenever you see like a tweet that's like worded a certain way, they're just going to put Cam Winter's picture on it.

Like he's at the, you can make up fake lyrics for this guy phase of his career. Yeah, I mean, it does show like, yeah, like how crazy some of the lyrics are on heavy metal, like in a great way that I totally love. But just to piggyback on your point about the confidence aspect, because I think that is really worth underlining here a little bit. There is something about this record again where I think if it were anyone else, it could really collapse on itself and become an eye-rolling exercise. I mean, I don't want to,

like, I'm thinking of like a lesser songwriter that would be in his cohort, and I don't want to mention anyone specifically. But there's a lot of songwriters I could think of, who I think are perfectly fine artists. But if you saw them put out a live record at Carnegie Hall, you would go, oh, brother, like, who do they think they are? Like, what are we doing here? Like, this is a little delusions of grandeur to be doing this. But with Winter, he justifies it. It's like, no, he deserves to be here.

And the way that it's presented is like, no, these songs deserve to be here. And it's something that goes beyond just the quality of it. It is that, again, that intangible quality, what do you want to call it, confidence or swagger or charisma, whatever it is. But that, in addition to the quality, justifies the package in a way that I don't think it would for a lot of other artists that I could think of.

Yeah, and by the way, just to tie things on the knot, like to tie things up here as far as like, you know, the San Diego of it all. I looked at the, uh, where this is, uh, where this is presenting. We also haven't mentioned Paul Thomas on Anderson yet, which. Well, I did. I did mention. Oh, okay. Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, him and Benny Safdi shooting the film, which was like one of the things that, in addition to this concert being a big deal. Like when the photos of him leaked shooting the show, that really was like, oh my God, this is going to be a huge deal. Yeah.

And also bringing out like people who are just going to hate this on principle, you know. But the, about the San Diego of it all. Okay. So I'm going to read some places where this is being shown. Santa Monica, Glendale, California. Shout to Glendale. You used to live there. Los Angeles.

Then a few, like a month later, Santa Ana. So it's doing Orange California. County, then Oh hi, and then eventually back to Los Angeles. So yeah, they are like conscientiously avoiding San Diego. So San Diego just taking it on the chin this week. Sorry, San Diego. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talked about something we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? All right, so perhaps you saw that the 300 Skulls and Counting slash Jenny Sparks album, this is Spa Town, got best new music maybe like a week ago and you might think like why why are you giving attention to that it's

already got enough but i think recommendation corner can also be for things that you read about and immediately do the not-for-me-mate thing um when it actually might be for you if you just get it from a different perspective and i assume that this was going to be the same sort of super internety rap stuff like zavier so based or whatever that i've tried and i haven't gotten into but it probably shouldn't get into because it's okay to have a generation gap, especially with rap. But, you know, when I check this out, yeah, it is super internet-y, but it made me think of, like, the streets with those campusinos, like 2007 worldview, and there's some screamo in there randomly. Like, they dress like the Blood Brothers, like in 2003. Also, there's, like, a few skits on this where they, like, make prank

phone calls of their chicken shop, which makes me think they maybe are inspired by Junior Spesh, which is definitely Indycast Hall of Fame. Look, that. that up. I would recommend checking out the video for Ballad of St. Nick's Park. It really tied together everything for me in that it's internety, but it's also like a do's rock hangout album.

These guys just like really like cracking each other up and making these private jokes. I mean, like I know you've brought up Ween as a great example of that. It doesn't sound like Wean, but it's still very much a people who are like in their early 20s trying to crack themselves up. This album is 22 minutes.

That's probably all I need of this particular style of music and I guarantee if like I was 23, 24 and this came out in 2004, I try to play it at every social function I go to. So 22 minutes of your time, give it to 300 skulls and counting. Jenny Sparks, this is Botown. So the album I want to talk about is something I've talked about a little bit on the show. I think I drafted this for my fantasy team, but the record is called Little White Cross and the artist's Margo Silker. That's C-I-L-K-E-R. And the, the This is a record I've been listening to a bunch in the last several weeks. And I'll just say that in my house, the toughest critic isn't me.

It's my wife. She's the one who is much more apt to not like something or to dismiss something. Not in a bad way, but I feel like she's more discerning than I am. I'm more quick to sort of love and embrace things, especially musically. But this is a record that I've been playing around the house. and my wife has just sort of zeroed in on the lyrics of this album. There have been several songs that just have kind of like stopped her in her tracks and gone, wow, what a great line, which really tells me like, wow, this must be like a really good record.

It's catching my wife's attention. And it really does, I think, speak to like how well written this record is and how devastating it is. And there's just so many like kind of heartbreaking character studies on this record. There's a song on here called Pauline, which is a song that my wife was really responding to about this woman like a single mother living in a small town who ends up having all these terrible things happen to her and there's like a tragic turn at the end of the song that I don't want to spoil because it's that kind of song. But again, if you are a lyrics forward person, if you are a storytelling forward person,

I really think that this is one of the great sort of songwriter records of the year. I've used the descriptor of female Jason Isbell before, which I don't feel great using that, but it's handy shorthand. And it does give you, I think, a sense of her approach as a songwriter, the way that she's able to wed these, again, very detail-oriented character studies to like sturdy, kind of Americana Heartland Rock type stuff. Really, really good record. I like it a lot, been listening to it a lot. I think it's going to be one of my favorite albums of the year. It's called Little White Cross. The artist is Margo Silker.

Check it out. It'll stop you in your tracks. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news, reviews, and hashing out trends next week.