Indiecast - Clairo + Albums By Kids Of Famous Musicians

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

This week’s episode opens with Steve and Ian discussing recent albums from the offspring of famous people. This leads naturally into a conversation of Sling, the new sophomore album from indie pop phenom Clairo. Claire Cotrill’s parents are well-connected in the music industry, which many haters use as a way to discount her success as an artist over the last few years and reiterate the “bootstraps” mentality (that is a driving force of the capitalist mindset, but we digress).Musically, Sling is a very low-key affair that could be viewed as another “reaction to fame” record that exists as the opposite end of the harshness spectrum from Nirvana’s In Utero. Produce by Jack Antonoff, the LP stems from the pent-up anxiety of Cotrill’s sudden fame after her debut, and the intense touring schedule that followed. It’s not as immediately gripping as Immunity, but seems like a record that could get definitely grow on a listener after it settles in the brain and ages.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, both Steve and Ian are plugging brand new surprise EPs from two of their favorite artists. Steve is urging everyone to check out Total Serene, the latest short-form release from Gang Of Youths, and Ian can’t get enough of the new EP from Yves Tumor.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndyCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we're going to be reviewing the latest album by Indy Phenom Clero. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? Enough about me.

What's our intern up to these days? Because, I mean, I don't know what the deal is with this Lana Del Rey album and the St. Vincent album. cycle has, you know, slowed down. Like, whoa. I mean, have you been giving them anything lately? I don't know. Like, did we hire an intern or did our intern quit? I haven't seen them around the Indycast offices lately. Yeah. Well, the good news, like, if you're out there and I assume if you're our intern, you're listening to us. I got a completely new assignment. Like, I need our intern like 24-7 on the Bjorks in-cell sun detail. Now, I think we, okay, I think, For our listeners' sake...

Do people know what you're talking about? Because this is something that broke this week. Someone on Twitter was talking about this. Yeah. Bjork has a son who's a musician and apparently he's an in-cell? So I think for the sake of our listeners, we need to just break down Bjork's incel son. These words put together are all familiar words,

but when put together it just seems like the sort of thing that might break your brain. Yeah, this is like Indycast Madlibs here, I think. Yeah, so one thing I saw is that, first off, like, you see a picture of this guy, and it looks like Bjork is Photoshop, like doing the face swap app onto a dude. Name is Sindri, apparently, so. Synjury? How do you spell it? S-I-N-D-R-I.

Is that like a traditional Icelandic name, or was that something that Bjork just came up with in a dream and applied to your child? And hence, this is what we need the intern on. Yeah, exactly. So someone posted a picture of this person. And like low-key kind of looks like the lead singer of the world's a beautiful place. And I'm no longer afraid to die. But apparently he writes like some very like long island emo type lyrics like vengeful ones about like women and so forth. And he's maybe kind of a redditor.

And okay, that enough was great. But then like I see something on Facebook about how he's apologizing for making a claim that he's a better songwriter. than Bjork. Oh, well, see, that's like an edible thing, isn't it? Because, well, I guess edible thing is you try to kill your father and not try to upstage your mother by writing better songs than her. Yeah. But, I mean, because, like, does he have a record out?

Or, like, can you hear his stuff on YouTube? And once again, it's like, there's a part of me that feels like if I, if I prod more deeply into this situation, I'm just going to find out that this was all fake and I'm going to be really dispirited. but apparently this guy does make music and you can find it, I think, under his own name. I believe the name of the album is okay to disconnect. And also another album that's actually called Bitter and Resentful.

Ooh. Okay. Yes. So is he writing about women in his lyrics and not being able to have relationships with women? Is that where the in-cell stuff comes from? it is. Oh yeah, released in 2016,

bitter and resentful is a lavish, indulgent, shoegaze pop punk from Iceland's musical era apparent, bittersweet and literate, Sindhry Eldon's solo albums, both grandiose and relax. Like, low-key,

this kind of sounds like something I'd listen to. Yeah, I was going to say, like, this description, an Atlantic, shoegays, pop punk record called bitter and resentful. Like, I'm kind of on board

with, this, at least, you know, just on paper. Yeah. And it's Bjork's kid. So, you know, there's a good musical lineage there. I mean, this could be okay. This is five years ago. How have we not heard of this?

I don't know. Well, the thing is, and like you, you made this observation earlier this week, and I had noticed it, but there is this bumper crop right now of records by the children of famous musicians. Yes. And it's like multiple generations. Yes. Of musicians. I recently did an interview with Jacob Dylan, of course, of the Wallflowers and one headlight fame. His dad is Bob Dylan. He's probably the most successful rock star kid of all time. I mean, if you take into account who his dad is and what you have to live up to, and then his own success, I mean, you know, the Wallflowers have had an up and down career, but like one headlight,

has been streamed more times than any Bob Dylan song, I think, other than Like a Rolling Stone. And what was the other one? Some other, like, big, knock on heaven's door. Thank you, Axel Rose. Yeah, he seems like the most, I can't think of another example of a rock star kid who even approaches his level of success. The only one who would come close when you think about, like, the lineage and the success, like, I mean, Julian Lennon or like Sean Lennon for a while, but I think he's kind of gone off the

rails into like alt-right type conspiracy theorizing. I think maybe him and Sindry hang out together. But you're right. It's like to be Jacob Dillon to like be that successful and that like level-headed, I think there's no question that this is the most like successful musician's son of all time. And are we on like the precipice of a wallflowers re-appreciated? Renaissance? Well, I feel like we've always been there a bit with one headlight at least. I remember seeing modern baseball when they toured with Pup and Jeff Rosenstack. Oh, yeah.

This is old school. This would have been like S-2016. Yeah. And the modern baseball walked out to one headlight. And I don't know to what degree that was genuine or ironic. Although if you listen to Jake E. Wald's band Slaughter Beach Dog, I could see him being a Wallflowers fan. There's like some Roots Rock DNA in that group along with the usual kind of emo and punk stuff. Yeah, they're like super legit Wallflowers fans.

They're from the era where like the Wallflowers and basically anything like Tom Petty adjacent was infiltrating Philadelphia emo slash DIY. So they've also covered. you know, the killers very earnestly. So, yeah, the wallflowers, like, I mean, they're, they're being re-appreciated, Gour dolls, like, this sort of like rootsy alt-rock stuff from 96, formative stuff for a lot of these guys. So I appreciate that they're, you know, that, look, and Sixth Avenue Heartache, like, an Indycast Hall of Fame song.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that is, that's bedrock for us. you told me about Bono's kid He has a band I didn't know about this until you told me about it And I guess this is a mixed blessing That I listen to this band They're called inhaler

Inhaler That's the name of the band Now you would think like just seeing from the band name Maybe they were like named after like that foals song Because like you know foals are still like pretty enormous in the UK I had not heard of this band either until like I just saw someone interviewing them. I guess friend of the pod, Corbyn Reef.

And yeah, it's Bono's Kid. The band is called Inhaler. And what the reason that I was like so immediately drawn to it is not because like, oh, I really need to know what Bono's Kid's music sounds like. It's certainly not Icelandic shoegaze pop punk. But I'll listen to anything these days. And first off, like inhaler. the name itself and you look at the cover,

this is like 2001 bands that kind of sound like you too. Like it makes me think of that band Ars, O-U-R-S. Totally. It's kind of cringe this album. Like it, the guy's voice, it sounds like Bono. The music has a very kind of early U-2ish sound.

I think on the second song there's like whatever, that mallet instrument, whether it's a xylophone or a glock and spiel, from I Will Follow, whatever that one is. And I don't, like, this one was interesting to me because, like, it contrasts with, like, Bjork, son, like, just ripping down every last bit of, like, the legacy his mother set up. And then you have, like, yeah, I'm Bono's kid. I think I'm going to make an album that sounds like my dad.

My dad's pretty sick. Yeah, by the way, we should say his name is Elijah Hewson. We keep calling him Bono's Kid. We should probably say his real name. Bono's kid is a much cooler name. Let's be real here. Yeah, you know, your 2001 rock comparison is on point. Like when I listened to this record, it reminded me of a CD that I would have bought at Best Buy for $7.99.

You know, because it was like one of those, like, major label, new rock bands that they're trying to break. And, like, maybe you hear one song on the radio and you're like, oh, that sounds all right. I'll take a run on this disc. And then, like, 20 years later, you're digging through a box and you find. the CD and you're like, who the hell is this band? Like, why did I buy this? Like, that's what inhaler is to me. Yeah, I would say definitely early YouTube with like some killers influence in there.

And I have to say as someone who likes that kind of stuff, that even when there's a band that's doing like a C-less version of it, I respond. I don't hate it. You know, it's sort of like eating like a really cheap, bad pizza. It's like you're still eating pizza. Like I still like pizza even though I recognize this isn't the best example of it. So, and his voice does sound a lot like Bono, too. Like, it's a lot like Bono.

I think my dream job is to be a guy in the band with Bono's kid. Well, yeah, well, I mean, are those, I assume that they're all rich kids. Yeah, probably. You know, they're probably like the sons of, you know, you know, Yeah, exactly. Or, you know. Record exacts. Like Bono, when he goes golfing in the south of France,

these are the guys that he takes with him, his banker bros, and then their sons formed a band together. You know, one, like, progeny of a famous person, like their music that I've enjoyed lately, I have to say, is, like, Willow Smith. She's come out, like, she's doing this pop punk thing now, and she had that song with Travis Barker,

I think it's called Transparent Soul. Yes. And I don't mind that song. I actually think it's kind of a good song. Maybe my expectations were low and it managed to exceed them for that reason. But that song, again, it kind of reminds me of like an aughts era, like, knockoff mainstream punk song, but that still has like a pretty good hook to it and like good production. So you end up liking it anyway.

I mean, am I totally wrong? to like not hate that song? No, like, the thing about like pop punk, like, of this, of this ilk that's coming out nowadays is that, like, the people can actually sing with, and the production is actually good. Like, the fact that Willow Smith is working with Travis Barker, I think, like, we are just really heading to this singularity where, like, Jack Antonoff and Travis Barker work together. And then, like, it's just like this, this horizon point that is inevitable. Well, Jack Antonoff, well, maybe he'll produce the Blink Winni-802.

Comeback LP. Like after Mark Hoppice, you know, gets better because we know he's going to get better. And they'll do like, take off your pants and jacking off. Oh my God. Holy shit. I'm willing that into existence. Like, we are, like, let's not underestimate our powers of like manifesting things like that into the real world.

But, you know, like, the thing about like Willow Smith, it's like, it's quite good at being popular pop punk. The thing that, like, makes me laugh is how people are, like, kind of getting mad that, you know, this rich kid is becoming this interloper in pop punk. Like, as if, as if pop punk of this sort has, like, any integrity to protect, like, you know, like, maybe there's, like, some, like, you know, drunken lacrosse bro in Long Island thinking that, like, their culture is being appropriated or something like that. And also, let's just point out that, like, Jada Pinkett had, like, a new metal band. Back in like the 90s. Yeah. So Willow Smith's roots are every bit as legitimate as like that of Bono's kid whose name I've just forgot because it's nowhere in near as catchy as Bonn's kid.

Yeah, I mean, I think Willow is definitely ahead of Bono's kid. I mean, Willow had that hit. With my hair. With my hair. She already has like some like musical pedigree of her own. But I believe Avril Levine is also on the Willow Smith record. Yeah. It seems like Willow is maybe emulating what Averill did in the Outs where it was, again, it was equally pop and punk.

Yeah. And if you're going to get upset about it, it's like, well, people got upset about Averill Levine back in the day. And now look at all the people that she's influenced. I mean, there were so many, especially I'm sure young, you know, female punk fans at the time who saw Averillivine and they were inspired by her. And I'm sure Willow, if she ends up having a career, she'll do the same. fame, you know, because that's how people get it. You're not like an eight-year-old listening to crass or something. I mean, you're not, this is the gateway. You need these kind of gateways. And again, I think that's a good song, that's single that with Travis Berker,

I think it's pretty good. I know, like, you want to talk to, this is like a much less famous example of this phenomenon we're talking, but like the Goonsacks record, which you and I disagree on, I think. It's called, it's called Mirror 2. And one of the people in this band is the son of Robert Forster from the Go Betweens, which, you know, obviously much less famous than Willow Smith or Bono or Bob Dylan, but, you know, for indie rock people, that's a name. And I think when you listen to the Goonsex, you can hear a similar sensibility of very clever, catchy Australian pop rock.

Yeah. And I like the record. it's a really charming record. I like this band. You're turned off by this band, though, a little bit, right? A little bit. Like, I mean, this, an Indie cast recommendation Corner alumni. So, when I would read this,

when I would read reviews of this, like, I would just, it would be, like, for the most but, like, a laundry list of, like, cool college rock influences. You know, it's like Go-Betweens and all these other bands, like C-86 and maybe some shoegays, maybe some stereo lab.

I don't know if it's like a symptom of age, but like that like, even though these are all bands I like, it kind of turns me off to see bands that are working within the established canon. So I have, I've developed over the years something I like to call the deaf tones test. And all of a sudden, you know, all of a sudden like our listeners like, oh, like leaning into their podcast like playing devices. Tell me more. Yeah, the deftones test. Yeah. the deaf tones test so first and foremost if a band likes the deaf tones i'm probably gonna deaf tones i've never deaf tones aren't a thing um if they if they like deaf tones i'm probably

gonna like them like that that that's part one but you know when i think about like deaf tones in relation to a band like this um i judge a new band these days about particularly like a rock band of whether they're bringing anything new to the canon or whether they're just working firmly within it so And the reason it's the Deftones test is that if you look at Deftone's cover album, they are a really cool tasteful band. Like their cover album from 2011 had a shot day cover like years before that was a cool thing for indie bands to do. Cocteau Twins, they had the Smiths, the Cure, Japan, Duran Duran, Leonard Skinnerd, like kind of

doing that like Roots Rock sort of thing and also drive like Jayhood, Jawbox. but the reason they never came off as like just a record collector nerd band is that they put all this stuff they brought in this new metal like West Coast rap stuff that was like so terribly uncool. And that's what made this music kind of work for me. It's, you know, they're their music fans, but they're doing so. I just can't take a band seriously if I don't believe they ever had an uncool phase. Like you were saying, like bands being like eight years old into crass, I hear, I see bands like, yeah, when I was 13, I got into Sonic Youth and Fugazi and Liz Fair.

If that's your history, I can't fuck with you. Ice Age failed that test. Goon Sacks. I like a couple songs, but I think they fail that test because I don't hear like any uncool stuff in here. The 1975 passed with flying colors. Oh, man. Well, see, look, I, on one head, I totally.

am with you, I get annoyed when bands, it feels like their influences are overly curated. That they're trying to sort of check all the boxes that they think that critics want to they want to see that in order

to think that you're respectable as a band. So I totally get that. I will say, however, that I think deaf tones no longer qualify as uncool. I would actually say that if a band says that they're into the deaf tones, that actually is now an influence that would be cool to name check. Cooler than, say, referencing a bunch of Flying Nunn bands.

Like, you know, like the Flying Nun label, like through New Zealand, like all those great bands that, like, I would suspect that the Goon Sax is influenced by. I don't think that that has the same cachet anymore with this generation of music critics. I think it is, you are more likely with, like, a 23-year-old music writer to impress them if you said, I like the deaf tones or I like Blink 182. Like that's become the new canon, I think, for like the young generation of music critics. And I know that because the guy from the 1975 is a deaf tones fan. And I think that guy is very aware of what is cool and what's right to influence.

And by the way, we should mention Maddie Healy. Isn't his mom like a soap opera actor or something? So there's little nepotism there too. We could group him. I guess in a way, I mean, like his parents aren't musicians, but he's obviously a very successful example of someone who had, I guess his parents aren't famous here, but they're famous. Yeah, in the UK.

Also, we got to, like, mention, like, the OG, like, coolest shaker. His mom, I think, was, what, she was in, like, saved by the bell or something like that. Haley Mills. Oh, she's in the parent trap. Yeah, that's it. The original parent. So, so I don't know if, like, I like this test, but I actually feel like the deaf tones have become like a pretty fashionable. Like if someone said Papa Roach, then, you know, that would be, that's a different story.

Like, if, because like the Deftones are definitely like the filet of new metal, you know, like, they're the cool band. Pop Roach is cube steak, I guess. That's right. Yeah. So, like, if there's some Papa Roach fans out there, put that in your bio. You'll probably end up on this show. You'll probably end up in recommendation corner because we'll be in your corner, the Papa Roach fans. Let's get to our mailbag segment here.

And this is a letter from John in Northville, Michigan. Do you want to read the letter this time? I always read the letter. Wow, wow. Like, I've grown up. Should we make Indycast history? Do you want to read it this time? Yeah, this is like the one song.

It's like the Goo Goo Goo Dolls, Alan, where they let Robbie the bassist sing. Yeah, special time. But, yeah, Josh from Northville, Michigan, by the way, extremely indie cast name and location. Yeah, absolutely. I like the specificity of Northville, Michigan. I don't know if that's like a suburb of Detroit or if you're just like in the middle of Michigan somewhere. Yeah. But thanks for writing in Josh.

Very Sufyan B-side energy here. So Josh says I was in college when iTunes was interesting. already. This guy, you know, he's warming in my heart. And nearly all my music listening has been via iTunes or Apple Music since then. Therefore, I'm in the unique position of knowing exactly how much I've listened to every song in my life since, dating back to around 2003. And he lists 7-4 shoreline by Broken Social Scene as the leader with 156 plays. So I know you guys came a bit before the bit, came of age, a bit before the digital age. And Stephen, I know you're listening to weird 80s cassettes right now, so you probably don't have an exact count of how much you listen to given

songs. But do you think you have a grasp on which songs you've listened to the most in your life, and does that also correspond to your favorite songs? So that is our question. So let's continue to reverse this dynamic by having you answer the question first. Okay, well, I mean, this is interesting to be on multiple levels. I think before I answer the question, and I'll turn this back to you, the idea of being able to track your music listening, like that exact, you know, over the course of almost 20 years in the case of Josh here, it's something I can't relate to because I do even now, so listen to quite a bit of physical media.

And when I think about songs that I've listened to a lot, I know I'm probably exaggerating when I say, like, oh, I've listened to the song a thousand times. It probably isn't a thousand times. I mean, like, he said that his most listened to song was only 156 times, which doesn't seem like a lot. And that's a song from 2005, so. Yeah, it doesn't seem like a lot, but it probably is. Like, you know, because when you have the exact number, you know, it prevents you from, again, being able to sort of exaggerate how much you like something. I have to say I'm kind of creeped out by the idea of like my listening being tracked that closely. and maybe that's just because of my generation.

But having those kind of stats for my own listening, on one hand, I'd be fascinated by it, but the other hand, it's like, oh, man, I don't know. That's, like, kind of crazy to me. Do you have anything comparable to that? Like, do you have specific numbers for yourself? So I did. I think Josh and I had very similar experiences,

not just the fact that we listened to the broken social scene self-titled it on a shitload of times. But I did, I would be like kind of morbidly fascinated with the iTunes count. Now, the problem is I had to kind of refurbish my account like I got a new computer and iTunes changed the music. And then for the most part, I went to Spotify's, which doesn't track quite as accurately. But I've just really wondered, because like people will say, like, I've listened to this out a thousand times or I've listened to it 100 times, which it doesn't sound like a lot, but

It is a lot of, like, it's a lot if you actually think about it in the context of like every single song that you've listened to. So for me, when I think, the question itself is like the song you've listened to the most in your life, does that also correspond to your favorite song? So I've thought about this more recently with my ability to listen to music, much more limited to like most of the time the car and the gym. The songs I'm going to listen to the most are the ones that have the most utility. in other words, the ones I can listen to while I'm running. So last year, I guarantee you Kawasaki Backflip by Dogleg was by far the song I listened to the most. Mostly because it's great. It's a fucking amazing song.

And secondly, it's a song I like to run to. And I run every day. And because if I think if I were somehow able to make a list of the songs I've listened to the most, it would, like, I think it would bring up some like really, I would have to really face what my life has been because I've definitely listened to the offsprings all I want more than anything on OK computer or stanchonia or loveless

because it's a short song that's super fast and when my running starts to lag I just put that on. Oh man, what years that song from? 1996 or 1997? So is that on X-Nan? the album race? It is definitely on Ixnay on the Ombrae. Yeah, their lesser-beloved follow-up album The Smash, which has their power ballad gone away on it. Oh, yeah. That's a guilty pleasure.

Yeah, exactly. I'm going to listen to that song when I get out this podcast. Yeah. I was going to, you know, I would say, and again, this number, I'm sure is inflated because I, you know, I listed this album first on cassette in 1991, but it would probably be something off of Octoon Baby would be like my all-time listened. Because I listened to that a million times when I was in middle school, and I didn't have many tapes then. So it was just, it was something I listened to, like, walking home from school every day. So that'd be historic. But similar to you, like, if it's more recent, and it's during, like, the streaming era,

you know, you talk about music that you listen to while you're running. Like, I have certain playlists that I listen to when I'm writing. because for writing music, it has to be music that I enjoy, but I can also push into the background. Like if it's something new, I can't really write at the same time because I'm distracted by it. I want to listen to it rather than focus on my writing. So there's a Kurt Vile playlist that I have that I usually put on when I'm writing because it's pretty chilled out. It's music I like, but I can also ignore it. if I need to.

So it would probably be like pretty pimping or something. It would probably be like my modern standard. You know, like that's a song I probably hear a couple of times at least per week just because I put that on when I'm writing. So, yeah, you have your running playlist. I have my writing playlist.

It's a very sedentary versus active dichotomy between the two of us. Yeah, if I were able to listen to music while I was writing, man, like this would be way different. But I can't listen to anything when I'm writing. Yeah, that's interesting, because I love to listen to music when I'm writing, but it has to be music that I'm familiar with. Like, another all-time writing music artist for me is air. Oh, yeah.

I have an air playlist, and their music is pretty cinematic, so it puts me into a good frame of mind when I'm trying to be creative. But again, it's something that I can also ignore when I need to get into the depths, into the trenches of writing something. By the way, you say 1991 cassette, and I was really hoping you would say like Ugly Kid Joe, America. is least wanted. Like, for whatever reason when you say a cassette, it can't be a good album. I don't know. Yeah. Well, yeah.

I mean, that came out in 92, I believe. And my friend did have that on CD. So I, and because I think, I'm trying to remember if their cover of Cats in the Cradle is on that album or if that was on a subsequent album. But that's a hilarious. Yeah. The EP was ugly as they want to be. America's least one is. the hit cassette with neighbor and their cats in the cradle cover.

Okay. All right. Man. We're both dropping some good offspring and ugly kid Joe knowledge in this episode. Well, let's change course here to something much newer and hipper. Fine. Talk about the new album by Clero. It's called Sling.

Just to give a little bit more background on Clero, she is also known as Claire Cottrell. She is an Atlanta native. She's 22 years old. And she's been in the public eye for about four years now. Her first big hit was a song called Pretty Girl that she recorded at home and she just posted it online on a whim. And it ended up becoming a big viral hit. It has since been streamed. I looked at Spotify this morning 243 million times.

Probably more than any Bob Dylan song, right? I think so. More than one headlight as well. And if you go on Spotify, and I'm sure this is also true on YouTube and any other streaming platform, I mean, she has several songs that are over the 200 million stream mark and many over the 100 million stream mark. So she's definitely one of the more popular young singer-songwriters working today. She put out her full-length debut album, Immunity, in 2019. And her latest record, Sling, comes out today.

and this is sure to be, I would think at least this summer, maybe one of the bigger indie albums of the season. I'm curious, like, what do you think of this record? So, I think it's appropriate that we talk about this album

in the context of, like, the greater question about, like, you know, parents and privilege and so forth, because as, you know, clero rose to fame, there is a lot of backlash about like, oh, this person's an industry plant. They have rich parents, which is sort of kind of true.

But also, I don't think you can fake getting 243 million plays on Spotify. Just to give some background, her father is a guy named Jeff Cottrell, who is not a famous person, but he is a well-known marketing guru. And he's good friends with the head of Fader, the record label. and Fader subsequently signed Claro. So that was the, I guess, the hubbub out there that people thought that she benefited from her parental connections, which she certainly did.

But like you said, she also wrote many songs that connected on a wide level, and you can't really manufacture that. So it's like both things are true at the same time, really. She is privileged, but she also delivered the goods. Yeah. I mean, I think about like Claire. specifically, like she, I've read interviews with her where she talked about, like, she was going to

Syracuse University at the time. And it's like, you know, most rich kids I knew who went to Syracuse would go into like finance or law or something like that. So not necessarily the worst thing in the world for this like person to go ahead and, you know, make songs like Flaming hot Cheetos and Pretty Girl and so forth. Like there's, the connection is super real. And I think what's interesting to me thus far is with this record, how you brought up how it's going to be, one of the bigger ones of the summer. And in a way, I think that this record has gone very much out of its way to kind of deflate its own hype. Like, I know this is like kind of super nerd inside baseball stuff, but like there is not a single review published as of the recording of this episode, which is, I mean, no matter how hard of an embargo you typically get on a big record, there's usually something written about it, unless it's like a surprise drop.

So there's that component. Yeah, I know the embargo is that you're not allowed to have a review until the release day. So like when this pod goes up, it'll go up in the midst, I'm sure, of a garden of Claro reviews. So yeah, it'll be curious to see how people respond because I agree with you, you know, beyond the review thing, musically, this is a very low-key record. And, I mean, Muti, it's not like it's this, you know, aggressively extroverted record,

but like this album, like there's barely any drums on it. It's a very muted record. There's a lot of like acoustic ballads and piano ballads. At times, it actually reminds me of Way's Blood. I don't know if you got that vibe from this record. It has sort of like a classic 60s and 70s pop sound, which we should mention that this is another.

record produced by Jack Antonoff, who, like, he needs to take a vacation. I mean, this guy, I feel like, is Phoebe Bridgers, like, the last, like, major, let's not. Singer-songwriter of, like, this generation who hasn't worked with him? We need to respect our power and not try to act. I mean, maybe it'll happen anyway. I just wonder if he's, like, like, like, Timbaland, like, had, like, kind of associate Timbalands who was kind of doing most of his beats. Like, I do wonder if, like, Jack Antonoff is, like, doing all this stuff

that he says, or maybe he just... I mean, there's a new Bleachers album coming out, too, so... Well, this album, I wouldn't say that this album reminds me of, like, other records that he's worked on. Again, like, you... I wouldn't know necessarily that he

worked on it, if I hadn't read the Rolling Stone profile, where he talks about working on the record, and he's quoted a bunch. Um, but, Again, speaking to your point about this being a low-key record, I read the Rolling Stone profile that came out, I guess, last week. And it does seem like she's struggled a little bit with the sudden fame that she's gotten and all the touring that she did.

And this does feel like a reaction to fame type record. We should mention it's the cover of Rolling Stone. Yes, exactly. Which, again, speaks to how popular she is. And the lead single blouse, which again is this very kind of low-key acoustic ballad, almost like a whisper-type song. Yeah. She performed it on Jimmy Fallon. That's very representative of the sound of the record.

I mean, there's only like a couple songs that are kind of upbeat. And really like some of my favorite songs on the record are more in the upbeat camp, like Amoeba, which is the second track on the record. Yeah. It has like a really cool kind of clavinet riff on it. Oh, yeah. Which is pretty cool. But for the most part, this is like a pretty downbeat record. Yeah.

And I think another part of what stood out to me as far as, like, her approach to this record is that there's only been one single. And it was blouse. That's it. And, you know, like that, and that just kind of is indicative of even of the fact that, you know, she's on the cover of Rolling Stone and this song has gotten like four million plays thus far. I'm a little surprised that she did this on live TV because I mean, look, the fact is, like, the early shows were rough. She'll allude to that. But this seems like a record that I would almost think would make more sense in 2020, where I've heard from a lot of bands that are like, oh, cool, we don't have to tour or like be out on tour. That takes off the pressure of like having to make a record where we think about like how it might come.

come off live. And, you know, especially who, like, I don't know if she would bring a clavinet player, you know, to on tour, just have someone do, like, a keyboard thing like that. But I don't know. Like, I appreciate kind of how, like, low-key it is and how it kind of gets more in this 60s, kind of singer-songwriter, quasi-loral Canyon vibe. I think what, I think what the real test is going to be is that so much of what made immunity work. And by the way, like immunity is a record that really, really grew on me. Like at the beginning. Yeah, me too.

Me too. It made me think of like when I heard songs like North or Elwife or something about it just put me in the same space of like being 20 years old and listening to Death Cap for Cutie. I think that they'll or like stuff on Saddle Creek. It's like very popular, but also kind of like low-key song about being 18 or 19 and thinking your relationship is like the biggest thing in the world, which is great. Music like that needs to exist. I think now it's like, I wonder if there's like a bit more self-consciousness in the lyrics or kind of a more inward look about like what it means. Not so much to be like an 18 or 19 year old in college or on the internet, but like to be a early 20-something. person who's famous in music.

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things I really liked about immunity was how she was able to integrate lots of different types of music and internet culture. Yes. It was a little bit of indie rock, a little bit of emo, as you said. There was like an R&B influence. There was obviously... Yeah, Rostum, the production that he did on that album. Yeah, and it all came together really seamlessly.

And again, like, that record. was fairly low-key too. I think that's just how Clero is, but I do feel like that album, in comparison to this new album, Sling, was more dynamic. And if I have a criticism of Sling, it does feel a little one-dimensional at times. And I know when I'm listening to it, I wish that there were, again, a few more upbeat songs, just to sort of shake up the sound of the record,

which again, I think, is very kind of slow, downbeat, introspective. I mean, it's a mood record. And I appreciate that. And I'm with you with appreciating the idea of making a record like this after she has the big streaming hit. That this doesn't seem like a record where she seems especially concerned with, like, topping what she's done before. There's not like a ton of guest stars on the record.

It's not, there's not like an abundance of tracks, you know, like where you're just trying to goose the streaming numbers by having like 18 songs. I think there's only, I think there's 10 songs total on the record. And it definitely feels like the work of an artist who is maybe just getting into like a lot of those classic 70 songwriters. Like she's talked about Judy Sill and Joni Mitchell, artists like that. I think she named her dog Joni, and there's like a instrumental track on the record called Joni. It's not spelled the same way as Joni Mitchell, but it's inspired by Joni Mitchell. So she's, you know, and so she's like a lot of 22-year-olds, like, where you get into

an artist and like, that's all you want to listen to for, you know, an extended period of time. And this might just be the phase that she's in with this. I do hope that she gets back to maybe integrating some of the. other influences that she seemed to have before. Because again, I just think that makes her a little more interesting musically, even though, I mean, the reference points that she has here are stuff that I'm into. I'm curious, like, you know, you mentioned how Blouse has four million streams already, which is, like, fantastic for most indie artists.

But is that a disappointment for someone like her? Oh, I mean, is that a sign that this record is maybe not going to be as popular as a community was. I've honestly just come to accept that I have absolutely no idea what any metrics mean anymore. I think we are definitely in like a post everything kind of music scene where like the reviews, I don't know if they matter, the streaming numbers. I don't know what's real. But with with that, like this record just stands out to me, especially in comparison to a lot of like follow-up records from, you know, artists who occupy a, definitely not as high of a space as far as popularity. But you listen to like the Lucy Dacus record, Japanese breakfast record from this past year.

And there just seems to be with those, like a very conscientious leveling up, whereas this one kind of goes in the opposite direction because like those ones, maybe they're trying to reach the level of a clero as far as popularity. But like, this one's turning a bit more inward in a way that I think is either going to be indicative of someone who's in it for like a long haul. Like maybe the next record will be a bit more extroverted or maybe this is just one that people need to get out of their system like the muted sophomore album. You know, I don't want to bring up like in utero because like they're extremely different as far as, you know, as far as like tone or maybe like the second the XX record, which was very much more like muted compared to the first one before they made like

a dance record third time around. But when you mention that like the influences behind the record, Judy Sill, Joni Mitchell, immunity definitely passed the deaf tones test. Like to kind of bring it full circle. Like this one, I still think there's like a force of personality to it that will allow me to get deeper into it and like give it more of a chance to settle and percolate than a similar album. But you know what?

At work, whenever people play like the chill indie playlist. Like that's what oftentimes people play is background music at work. It's like chill indie, feel good. It's like all these bands and artists that I've never heard of who somehow generate two million plays on Spotify. So much of it in 2021 sounds like immunity. So as you think that they might have just kind of wanted to shy away from that and just establish their own lane.

And you know what? Even if I don't love this album just yet, I definitely respect it. Well, and you mentioned the muted sophomore album. Like another record that I thought of when I was listening to Slang was was Punisher, the Feeder Bridger's record, which I think, if you compare

that to Stranger in the Alps, I think Punisher is, in many ways, a much quieter record in a more introspective record. There's not a lot of bangers on that album. It is more, I think, about the quiet of the record and the observations and the lyrics. And of course, I mean, that record ended up being a huge hit for her. It did pretty well.

And I think, you know, maybe Clero is onto something by not just aping the sound of our first record. Maybe this record is a sign of like, well, this is what is coming next. like these kind of quieter records are what people are looking for. I will say with Clero as a lyricist, for me, she's not quite there yet. Like I don't, I obviously, and I say that,

knowing that there's this huge fan base out there that has connected with her songs and really relate to what she writes about. She writes a lot about anxiety, depression, living with those issues. And, I mean, there's, you know, scores of instruments. accounts that are just devoted to posting her lyrics and diving into her lyrics and

obsessing over Claro. I'll just say for me, I just feel like, she definitely has a point of view, but I just feel like in terms of just having lyrics that are quotable, that stand out or that tell a story, if you're looking at her in comparison to some of her peers, I feel like that's not quite her strength. I will say that musically, I think she's really good with melody. And her songs, I think, are often very immediate. even in this format where

she's not writing songs, I think, that are as immediate as the songs on Immunity or some of the big hits. I mean, you mentioned Flaming Hot Cheetos, which is, you see the title of that song, you're like, what the hell is this song going to be? But that's sort of like a really great pop song. Yeah.

I mean, it just works really well. And I don't know if there's anything on this record that, like, hits quite as strongly as that. But, you know, as you said before, like immunity was an album that, like, you said that you warmed up to it over time, and that was true for me too. I think Cliro was just that kind of artist that because it's so low-key, you can judge it at face value in the moment, like the first time you hear it, but then like six months later,

it hits differently. I think she's kind of just like a slow burn type artist. So I do expect that this record will probably have the same kind of arc. I mean, because it seems like she's that kind of artist. well yeah and also the we have to take into account the fact that like we are people who enjoyed immunity and when i bring up like death cab and like you know saddle creek artists how they you know what they meant to me like there are people who are 22 like kind of living alongside clara who like immunity meant everything in the world to them so these are the people who's you know reaction i'm very interested

in as far as like how this record hits like um you know you i mean you i mean you you mean, you grow up loving a band and it's like you're going to give their album a lot more time than something that you see, oh, that like, you know, a couple of 40-year-old people are talking about maybe I need to look at that album, you know? Yeah, I mean, it definitely seems like the kind of record that draws you in because it's so quiet, you know, and that's an old performance trick where you actually lean out from people and that makes them lean forward. And it seems like she's made like an audience lean forward type record with sling.

So yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to spending more time with this record and really absorbing it. But yeah, I mean, Clero, she's doing her thing. And again, I think we both appreciate that she didn't do the obvious follow-up record. All right, we've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I recommend something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So today, or Thursday, it was a huge day for surprise EP releases. I know Steve will talk about one that was very important to us,

but Eves Tumor dropped an EP surprise release called The Asymptotical World, Asymptotical, Asymptotical. Asymptodical. I just like saying that word. So they're following up a song called Jackie that came out a couple of weeks ago, which this album definitely passes the deaf tones test for me, largely because it kind of sounds like deaf tones, or there's like a hint of kind of industrial trashy pop,

like orgy and stabbing westward. And I mean, and tricky, and I mean that in like the most positive way. But, you know, the last album, you know, as much acclaim as it got, have into a tortured mind as being this like kind of, you know, new rock star sort of ideal. This one to me, like, I think it's maybe my favorite thing that Eves tumor is released because it leans as hard as possible into the kind of trashy,

alt-rock, new metal, industrial sound that I think was a little more missing on having to a tortured mind aside from a gospel for a new century. I can't wait to spend more time with this one. Definitely putting together a catalog that stands up to just about anything in the past five years.

Anything this artist will do is interesting to me. And if we're in the interest of trying to manifest, things into the world. Eves Tumor, please cover stitches by Orgy. I think you'll kill it. Yeah, and, you know, not to keep picking on this record, but like when people talked about the St. Vincent record daddy's home and the sort of sleazy funk rock aesthetic that I was going for,

I kept thinking about Ease Tumor, you know, and, like, their last record, and I just feel like, just listen to that record. Like, they nailed it. You know? I mean, I think if you listen to those albums side by side, I mean, I just feel like the East Humor is like clearly the preferable choice. That is the Pepsi choice to go with them.

So, yeah, strong choice there. A song recommendation from Ian. As Ian said, there's been a lot of surprise EPs dropping this week, and I have to give a shout out to Total Serene, the new release by Gang Abuse. Oh, yeah. One of the big indie cast artists. And this is a three-song EP. One of the songs has already been released.

the recent single Angel of Eighth Avenue, which is like Uber gang abuse. All of their sonic hallmarks are on that song. But there are other songs are actually pretty interesting departures. There's a cover of an elbow song called The Sleep in the Back, which means a lot to Ian. This is like your favorite elbow song, right? Yeah. Like I was listening to this and like I wasn't looking at the screen or my phone when it was playing. I'm like, this sounds like an elbow cover.

And it's like, holy shit. It's not just a cover of an elbow song, but, like, Quipa's my favorite elbow song and, like, an elbow song that appeared, I think, on the American version of A Sleep in the Back. I think the British version didn't have the title track. It's just like one of those things where you, like, have to ask yourself, like, did I imagine this? Did I somehow, like, because I interviewed Dave pretty extensively instead for Serio,

I'm back in 2018. It's like, was there some seed planted where they're, like, Yeah, man. Like, not that they need my help anymore, but... They're just on the... We're just on the wavelength, man. Yeah, like some people are just on that wavelength with us. So that's where he is.

And then the last track is really interesting. It's a song called Unison. And it starts out as a familiar sounding Gang Abuse song. But then it takes a turn in the second half where it becomes much more electronic. And there's this integration of samples from indigenous specific music. And I'm just going to say, I don't want to go too in depth in this, but like I might have heard some music from the upcoming gang abuse album. And I feel like this song is a pretty good preview of like what's coming next with this band. I think they're really looking to make a different kind of record.

But at the same time, delivering the same sort of emotional catharsis that you want from that band. So if you love getting a use, definitely check out that EP and pay close attention to Unison because again, I think that's a good sneak preview of what's coming up ahead with this band and I think it's going to be pretty exciting. It made me think of an Octung Baby and like that era of you too.

I think I would say Dave is on the same wavelength as you are once again with that comparison. So yeah, it should be good stuff. That about does it for this episode of Indycast? Thank you all for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie. And I recommend five albums per week and we'll send it directly to your email box.