Indiecast - Coachella Downfall + Top Albums of 2024 (So Far)

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

Steven and Ian open by talking about J. Cole’s botched diss track targeted at Kendrick Lamar (0:26). Is it lame to record a diss track and immediately apologize? Or is this actually a sign of personal growth? From there, the guys talk about the slumping ticket sales for Coachella (12:43). Is this a temporary bump or is the festival headed for a permanent downturn?The guys also check in with the Fantasy Album Draft, with the release of new records by Maggie Rogers, Shabaka Hutchings, and Nia Archives (24:01). They also talk about early contenders for Album Of The Year from Q1-ish of 2024, including Waxahatchee, Vampire Weekend, and Mannequin Pussy (30:21). In the mailbag, there are two yay-or-nay questions on two very different bands: Khruangbin and Our Lady Peace (48:17).In Recommendation Corner, Ian talks about the screamo band Heavenly Blue and Steven recommends the new documentary Lost Angel: The Genius Of Judee Sill (56:28).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 184 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talked about the possible downfall of Coachella and our early contenders for Album of the Year. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He apologizes for the disc track directed at NPR's All Songs Considered.

Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? Yeah, if you go to the Patreon that we're cooking up here for Indycast, there's just like 12 minutes of disc tracks about like Bob Boylan's hats. You know, we go in on this guy. Is he still there? I think he retired. You know, yeah, actually he did retire. He retired in October.

Yeah, he's not doing shows but fell off like the Simpsons. That's a J. Cole. That's an actual J. Cole line. As a matter of fact, we're going to talk about the J. Cole song. It has like Stone Temple Pilots and Simpsons references. I think you might like it. What's the STP reference? It's not about like throwing rocks at your head or something like that.

Huh. Okay. Yeah, that one didn't quite hit. Yeah, we didn't actually disc all songs considered. Maybe we should though. Maybe we should be having some podcast beefs. You know, like, let's go after like Rob Harvella. 60 songs explain the 90s.

Actually, that shows, I think, stopped. So we're too late for Rob. He just retired before we could get into beef with him. I mean, that's just what happens. Bob Boylan, Rob Harville, they don't want that smoke with Indycast. That's true. But we like Rob. We know Rob.

We're not going to dis Rob. Or it would be like a wrestling type situation where we're all in on it. I can't see Rob, though, dissing us. He seems too nice for that. Yeah. So that probably wouldn't work. Anyway, we're talking about disc tracks because, as you may have heard, there was some controversy this week.

Jay Cole put out his new record and he included a disc track on the record called Seven Minute Drill directed at Kendrick Lamar. And I believe that this was in retaliation for Kendrick talking about Jay Cole on a future song, am I correct? Yeah, there was a future Metro Boomin album that had like a Kendrick, you know, Kendrick track on there. And like, all anyone remembers from that album for the most part is like

Kendrick, you know, throwing shots at a song One Person Shooter, which is Drake and Jay Cole. So this, like, this concept that like these three are like the big three in hip hop, at least amongst like, you know, wash 30 something year old dudes who also really like MF do them a lot and talk about like real hip hop son. It's, it's interesting because it's like a little exasperating at this point. But yeah, he had to fire back in a very J. Cole fashion. Yeah, and he includes this disc track on his record that dropped last week. And then I think the next day, the day after the album dropped, he was performing a concert and he apologized for the disc track. A very quick about face.

And I'm trying to think, has this ever happened before? where someone puts out a disc track, and then they immediately apologize? Is this unprecedented in the history of disc tracks? This has actually happened before. I can think of Jay-Z's super ugly. This came out after Nas did ether in response to takeover. And, like, you know, super ugly.

It's, you know, as the title describes. It's like a really nasty song, mostly talking about, like, you know, the mother of like Nas' child. And actually, like, Jay-Z's mom, encouraged him to apologize and Jay-Z did that, I believe, on the radio. That's definitely happened before. But this, you know, I think this was interesting because, like, he did it at, like, a concert, it appears.

And he also called it, he didn't just say, like, oh, I stepped over the line in the same way that, like, Jay-Z did. He literally called this the lamest shit I've done in my life, which, you know, this is Jay Cole we're talking about. he made like entire songs about like in his mind disappointing gnaz so yeah this consider this carries considerable weight but it was also like not really considered considered an effective disc track to begin with so it's just like Jay Cole doing extremely J. Cole

things in a way that reinforces the you know perceptions people like myself have him that he's just like this corny ass dude so Well, didn't you make like a crack about Kendrick having like a trans relative and making fun of his, I don't know, I can't remember if it's his uncle or aunt. It wasn't that an element of it. It was something, because I just saw people, I didn't delve too deep into this story, but I just, I saw people talking about the transphobic element of the disc track. Yeah, I missed that because, you know, Kendrick does have like a song, did have a song in his last album where he, you know, some would say like kind of clumsily handled.

reckoning with having like an uncle or something along those lines who was like trans or you know experiencing like gender dysphoria some along those lines um but yeah i think it was just like it was very clear and it always has been like j cole loves kentric lamar way too much to start dissing him and i think what people really cottoned on to was um there's a part where j cole like breaks down his opinions on um you know kendrick lamar's albums and he suggests that like to Pimp a Butterfly was overrated, which did lead to like a little bit of a flare up in the Twitter community of like people who have been just waiting since 2015 to say,

yeah, man, it's actually really fucking boring, man. And I actually listened to Pimp a Butterfly this past week for the first time while. You certainly can't call it boring. There are a couple of songs where it gets over his skis. Like I still think the song about like a homeless man being God is this. is a bit like silly in a kind of a late 90s way. But yeah, I think that this was disappointing to me because otherwise this week, we have just seen so much unrepentant peer-on-peer-hater shit.

Oh, yeah. Aerism is back. Oh, like peer to peer too. It's not like, you know, someone punching down or punching up, which, you know, can feel like enjoyable and like short bursts. But this is like other writers going at other writers in a way. way which like has gotten things like book forum and the baffir like trending on Twitter.

Well, there was the big thing this week. This was a viral review of an essay collection by the New York writer Lauren Oiler. It's actually based out of Berlin now. That's like a big part of like her. Oh, that's right. That's a big part of her persona. Yeah. Doesn't she split time between Berlin and New York?

I mean, I'm already laughing at, I don't know her at all. I don't really, I've read. See, she became famous because she wrote very vicious reviews of other people's books. Yes. That was her claim to fame. And then she became an author. She wrote a novel and now she has this essay collection. And there was a review and book forum that was brutal.

And I have to say, again, I don't know this writer at all. I haven't really read her stuff. My instinct is to feel bad for her because, you know, as an honest, author myself, I put myself in that position of just being destroyed in a review. The thing about that review that is so devastating is that the reviewer looked up references that she made in terms of her research, like she was researching various topics for these essays. And she discovered that in many instances, she just used the top result on the Google search

for that particular topic. Or she just took something from Wikipedia, like not copying it, but clearly just relying on Wikipedia for research. And she has like this paragraph where it's like, I don't know how many instances of this, like just several instances. And that's the kind of thing that it's a good lesson for writers. Like don't be lazy with your research because there is one crazy person out there who might track your good. Google searches and realize that you're just being super lax with your research. So that was pretty devastating. I mean, that is like the, you know, that's the takeover of literary disses, man.

Like that's Jay Z going after Naz back in 2001 level viciousness with that. I don't know. I'm of two minds of this Jay Cole thing. on one hand it is lame to do a disc track, put it on your record, and then immediately backtrack from it when the public doesn't really support what you did. I mean, he called the mixtape might delete later, so maybe this was like the plan all along. Yeah, but like, just don't put it out then. I don't know, that's such a, that's so weak.

But on the other hand, you know, in this age of social media, like where we're all posting way too much. And you post things sometimes off the dome, and then you immediately feel bad about it. Who among us has not deleted a catty tweet or a catty post? I had something this week. And I guess it defeats the purpose of deleting it, if I'm going to mention it. But there is a band called Still House Plants. Guess what kind of band Still House Plants is? If I just told you, there's a band called Still House Plants.

What would you guess is their genre? Well, I've heard of this band, but like I would suggest that that sounds like kind of rye, maybe angular, probably from the UK. Yes. Yeah. British post-punk. Okay. That's what they are.

And I made a catty tweet about how we have to stop this trend of British post-punk bands named after extremely mundane things. because that's the trend right now. Like we're on the verge of seeing like a band called Toothpaste Dispenser or you know, garbage disposal motor. You know, like these are going to, there probably is a band called Garbage Disposal Motor right now.

And they're probably, you know, there's probably a singer that just talks over, like you said, very angular guitar, maybe like an overactive rhythm section. But anyway, I did that tweet and then I felt bad about it, so I deleted it. And, you know, that's my version of Jay Cole, I guess, going after Kendrick. Yeah, I can relate.

I mean, I'm actually interested what you think about their actual music. I mean, to me, it just sounds like dirty projectors if they didn't have, like, songs. But I know that's, like, something that a lot of people are super into. But, yeah, like, like, Jay Cole doing that, like, one of the most relatable things. And I think that's, like, kind of like, Jay Cole's appeal that he seems like, a star, but also kind of an everyman. There have been so many times where I've, like, let a tweet, like, a negative one, not even about a popular band, but, like, just about one that might even be at, like,

still houseplants levels. I'll, like, let it sit for, like, five seconds because I'm like, I shouldn't put this out into the world, you know, it might get a few laughs. And then there's that, like, second wave of people who might, you know, make my life on Twitter miserable for a couple hours. Like, I just don't need that energy. But on the other hand, this is such a good tweet. I gotta get this out.

And like, I'll put it up for five seconds and delete it and like hope no one's screenshot in it. So, Jay, I think you'll lost the battle, but maybe won the war going forward. Yeah, it's not a cool move, but it also makes me feel like, maybe I could hang out with Jay Cole. Maybe he'd be a nice guy to hang out with. Let's talk about Coachella. Coachella, starting this week, first of two weekends. and if you don't remember and you probably don't. But the headliners this year are Lana Del Rey,

title of the creator, and Doja Cat. Those are the three big names. A little bit further down, you've got blur on there. You got no doubt. There's sublime. I don't know which version of sublime, but they're going to be there. Pesopuma, J. Blabin, got Kerrang bin in there. Jay Balvin.

What did I say? called him Jay Blabin. I had that something else where I transposed the L and some other letter. I've got some sort of issue with that. Got Kerrangbin in there. We're going to be talking about Kerrangbin a little bit later in this episode. They have a new album out today as well. It's interesting because, you know, we're used to Coachella just being like a slam dunk every year.

They announced the lineup, or even before they announced the lineup. It just seems like an instant set out every year. But that's not the case in 2024. The first weekend is sold out. But the second weekend, there's still tickets available. And there's an article in the Los Angeles Times that was published this week where they ask in the headline, has Coachella lost its shine? And it's because of this sales slump, if you want to call that. I think it's also related to the lineup.

the lineup seems a little blah this year. And also, the cost of going to Coachella, which I didn't realize it was this much, general admission tickets are $549. And that's before you pay for anything else there. Like just to get in the door. $549. And if you're going for VIP, it's like over $1,200.

And this is in an environment where ticket prices across the board are very expensive. You got big tours going on everywhere. Like live music generally is doing really well right now. It's a booming part of the music industry. But in the LA Times story, he talks about how Lana Del Rey had a recent tour that I think ended at the end of 2023.

Tau the creator played in Southern California, I think fairly recently. So there may not be a lot of urgency even to see the biggest acts here. What say you, Ian, you've been to Coachella. I have been to Coachella. I will probably never go to Coachella at this point. Do you think it's lost to shine?

You know, like this morning, you threw me a little bit for a loop when you said that we were going to be discussing Coachella. And for the very reason that you mentioned, which is that since they announced the lineup, I haven't thought about it like once. I don't think that's an exaggeration until it's like. No one has talked about it, really. We initially didn't have it in our outline because I'd forgotten that it was happening. And then this morning I remembered, oh yeah, Coachella starts this weekend. We were going to do a sports cast in this spot talking about Caitlin Clark and South Carolina women's basketball and how it just owned men's basketball this year. Like it got, I think the final game had like four million more viewers than the men's game did.

And the men's game was super boring. Did you watch it? Men's bad, like on this podcast, I've been like a loud advocate for college football over the pros. But every single thing that makes college, like football superior to the NFL, like, none of that applies to college basketball. Like the men's game is just like the first half is each team going like two for 25 from three point. And then, you know, the game gets close by the end. But the last three minutes last an hour because of the men's game. of all the timeouts and fouls.

It's just like... Well, they're playing like in a stadium too, which always screws with the games. It's horrible. Meanwhile, you have the women's game. Of course, Caitlin Clark, huge star. She's easily the most famous college basketball player in the world right now.

South Carolina had like, I don't know how many freshmen coming off the bench that we're just nailing threes. I mean, South Carolina just seems unbelievable. Machine. Yeah, they're like, This is like the NBA. How are they ever going to lose?

That team, like, and the, who's the huge center that they have? I can't remember her name. Yeah, I can't remember. But, you know, like, the women's tournament this year, you had, like, teams that, like, actively hated each other because the rivalries have simmered over a couple of years. You have, like, really, like, super villain Bobby Knight type coaches. You got, like, runner and gunter type. Yeah.

She's like a righteous gemstone's character. Yeah, this is, like, you know. the NBA from the 80s. That's what, like, the women's game was giving us this year. And, like, I'm all there for it. It was such a superior product and all ways to, uh, to the men's game. We're like the best player, like the two-time player of the year is a guy who's like seven, four and might be unusable for long stretches of time in the NBA. And like he's good. We're talking about Zach Eady, but like he's not fun to watch. No. He's like one of those awkward tall people. I don't know. It's not fun really to see him play. Uh,

I love how, like, how we plan not to be sportscast. We took it out. Yeah. But we actually put it back in because we don't want to talk about Coachella. Oh, I can give my opinion on it as, like, someone who... I mean, it has lost and shine. Oh, totally. To answer the question from the L.A. Times, yes, it definitely has.

The question, I guess the next question is, is this a temporary thing? Or is this the beginning of their decline? And that I'm not quite sure about. I do feel like if they just had maybe better hands. headliners, you know, like if they get, I don't know who next year, if they get Beyonce to come back or something, I'm sure they would do huge numbers. But I don't know, maybe not, maybe, you know, because they have been dominant for a long time. And history shows us that that kind of dominance doesn't last forever. No, like Coachella has been able to adjust. I'm thinking about, you know,

my own experience going there in 2009. Like, that was the first time where, There were a lot of articles suggesting, like, maybe Coachella is, like, on an inescapable downward decline because, like, the headlines were Paul McCartney killers and The Cure. Now, mind you, like, that sounds awesome to us. But, like, in 2008, 9, like, this is what, day and age era, the killers. And The Cure had just released 413 Dream, which was, you know, like, not a great record. But the next year, I think that was the year they got, like, Jay Z and Kanye to play. So they dipped into hip hop the next year and then they went to pop and then they did the two weekends. And that kind of saved things.

And, you know, like nowadays, I think you're right in that like a Taylor Swift or Beyonce is about the only thing that could really perhaps reverse to decline because they've embraced rap. They've embraced pop. They've included more non-speaking non-English speaking acts. And so, yeah, I mean, on one level, like if, Coachella completely goes away. Do I give a shit? No, do I... I care in the sense that, like, this is one of the only opportunities for, like, a band such as,

like, military gun or mannequin pussy to get, like, a really cool payday by playing at, like, 2 p.m. to, uh, you know, to, like, a nobody tent. Um, but yeah, I think that they're either going to, like, have to go back to the drawing board or, I don't know. Let's go back to, like, the old school, like, 1990. eight roots where they're like the headliners are like electronic acts but you also get like

Bjork or like you know blurr again playing you know yeah it would be funny for Coachella to do like a throwback lineup to like what they would have had in 99 so you've got like Beck

you have Jurassic 5 you know like that kind of stuff as the headliners just to maybe that can be like the old-timers version of Yeah, my wife would love that. Yeah, I mean, it's hard for me to give prescriptions

on how Coachella could improve because I'm so out of the demographic for what this festival is directed at. I mean, I'm not interested in music festivals in general. I mean, it's just not a great experience once you get a little bit older and your knees get a little weaker and you don't really want to stand in a field for eight hours at a time.

I will say, though, that there's nothing unique about Coachella anymore, like, outside of the setting. It's really about being in the desert. But musically speaking, they're like every other festival. And that is a problem that's like endemic to all the big time festivals, whether it's Bonnaroo or Lalapalooza or Coachella. They're all interchangeable. The same acts play, all the festivals. the idea that, like, at the beginning, Coachella was this basically alternative music festival. And then Bonarue was, like, the Jam Band Festival.

And then La Palooza, I mean, they have, like, alt-rock roots. But it was like, in the 90s, it was about combining different genres. So you'd have, like, you know, you'd have Jane's Addiction. And then you'd have, like, Cypress Hill and a guy getting, like, like, the monks and, like, a guy should. I was about saying a guy getting shot with a canon, but, like, I'm like getting it confused with the Simpsons episode. There's just nothing unique about these festivals really anymore. And I don't know if that's the solution that you try to build a brand again that is tied to a specific kind of music.

Like maybe Coachella, they just lean hard into becoming like electronic music or something. Or I don't know. Something along those lines. Who knows? Again, I feel like if they book a really big act next year, I said Beyonce, I don't think I think Beyonce would do it. I mean, maybe she would do it because of her history there. But like Taylor Swift, I don't see her ever doing Coachella.

I mean, why would she? When you can do like, what, six nights at SoFi Stadium? You're not going to do Coachella. I'm guessing like Billy Elish probably headlines. She's got, she announced the new album. Like Olivia Rodriguez is on tour right now. She could have headline, but she's doing her own tour. You know, I just feel like there's so much money in touring.

I just wonder like if a lot of these big acts are, not interested in doing festivals. Like, because if you can just play arenas and charge $200 a ticket, it just makes more sense than to be, you know, no matter how much money they're going to give you.

Because, like, how much money could you give Taylor Swift, you know, to do something like this? She's already making like $10 million a show, you know? Like, you can give her like $100 million? You know,

it'd have to be something like that. Let's do a fantasy draft update. This is a big day for our fantasy draft. There were, three albums between the two of us that came out today. Let's see, two for you and one for me. And it's interesting here because I know, we'll do me first.

Maggie Rogers, her album, Don't Forget Me, is out today. And I remember when we did the draft, this was one that felt like a reach. And I think you were skeptical of this pick as well. I didn't feel great about this pick. I think I went third or fourth. Yeah. with Maggie Rogers. Maggie Rogers,

again, this has been a theme so far in our draft. The albums that we thought would maybe just do okay have done really well. And it's also maybe a bit of the opposite as well.

Maggie Rogers, 87 right now, I'm Metacritic. Coming up big for me. She only has four reviews, so that could go down. I'm a little worried about that, but I feel like she's going to probably do that.

a mid-80s at least, which is exactly what I need from her. So Maggie, I'm sorry, I doubted you. You came through big time for me. Yeah, I think that was a savvy pick. Yeah, she had the New Yorker profile. And I think there's a little bit of like a makeup call, like what happens with not like pop, like major pop artists, but ones of her ilk where you stick around for like a third album.

It's like, okay, we're going to take you seriously now. Right. This is true because most of the reviews say it's like sounds like Jewel and Cheryl crow it's like it's more just like kind of a review of the person or maybe it's a great record and I'm just like not particularly interested in it but that's proving to be quite a savvy pick by you and I was banking on that I was banking on the makeup call because it just seemed like there's a lot of goodwill toward her and it seemed like if she just makes a good record people are going to want to call it a great record and it seems like that's what's happening

with Maggie. So Maggie, I love you. Thank you. You're coming through big for me. We also have Shabaka, your jazz pick. We had conflicting jazz picks in our draft. I went with Kamasi Washington. You went with Shabaka Hutchins.

Hutchings. Is it Hutchins or Hutchings? It's Hutchings. Hutchings with the G. Yes. The G is not silent. His album, perceive its beauty,

acknowledge its grace. Great title. Doesn't that just sound like an album title critics are going to go for? you know you're guaranteed at least an 8 if you title your album that he's coming through with an 84 which is a good score

is that a little underperforming though for you? Yeah as we're recording it the pitchwork review ran with an 8.0 and it's doing good the reviews appear to be polite but not as effusive as I was hoping for so you know I'm feeling like this is a little bit of an underperformance by our boy

You know, I was just thinking with the Hutchins versus Hutchings thing, this is like the opposite of what I did with honkin on Bobo. Remember when I said honking on Bobo? And it's like, no G there. I'm not going to lie, I don't remember that. But I'm glad that you do. No, it's our honkin lore. Well, it was also because I had a cold. So I was a little stuffy.

So I think I might have said honkin, but it sounded like honking. But you corrected me on that. But now we have the opposite. it with Hutchins versus Hutchings with Shibaka. And then you have the NIA Archives record out today. Silence is golden. And that's coming through with an 80. That seems a little low.

I saw like an actual yellow colored review on Metacritic, which is like never a good sign. But yeah, this one, I think I might, this might be like one of those, you know, mid, like mid first round NBA picks where like the person they draft, like is in the G League. The whole, I'm like,

oh, what happened to that guy? Yeah, this one might be kind of a dud. I was, I thought it was funny because you mentioned

all these like British talky post-punk bands with very mundane names. And right now, there's one called English teacher that is like rocking a 96 after eight reviews. English teacher.

Yeah, English teacher. That's such a British. That's such a British band. Maybe the fucking record is great. I don't, I should, I'll probably end up listening to it

because what the fuck else better do I have to name? But, I mean, I had this attitude towards dry cleaning for a long time, and I ended up really liking them. So, but English teacher. God damn. Yeah, they're on Island Universal. Like, maybe this is like where I start to like this style of music once it becomes like overtly sell out and major label. We shall stay.

I'm excited. Yeah. And then you have Vampire Weekend, which actually went up one point. I think it was 88 last week. It's now 89. Career high by a large distance. Just killing it. And that was another album that you and I were like,

we think critics will like this, but they won't love it. I would have predicted an 80 for Vampire Weekend. And they're almost 10 points higher than that. Just an incredible performance by Vampire Weekend on Metacritic. So you have three albums out now. Shabaka Hutchings, Nia Archives, Vampire Weekend, all in the 80s. NIA archives, hopefully that doesn't slip into the 70s.

If you slip into the 70s, you're in real trouble. Yeah, I don't... Yeah, God, we're doing slow pulp numbers. Exactly. And, God, we keep picking on slow pulp, which is really good band. But yeah, I drafted them, and they slipped into the 70s, and it killed me in the first draft. The Jamarcus Russell of the Indycast draft. Well, yeah, or...

We won't say Jamarcus. Let's say Marcus Mariotta. Marcus Marietta, who, you know, over-draft. I think he was the second pick, something like that. Yeah. And he's not good enough to be the second pick, but, you know, he's still in the pros. He's a good backup. So he's a good professional quarterback.

He just was overdrafted. So I would say that was true of Slow Pulp in the draft. Like they're a good band. Just maybe I overdrafted them. Let's talk about early album of the year contenders. We're through one quarter already in the year. And we're not going to do the thing that some people have done. I've seen people already starting to rank their albums of the year.

Yeah, fuck that. We've already turned, like, the mid-year list into an event. You know, like, that's a content generator now, like your mid-year list. And, like, look, I'm not hating on it. I do a mid-year list. Does good numbers whenever I do it. All love to people do a mid-year list. But I think if you're doing the quarterly list, it's a little egregious.

So we're not actually going to rank here, but we just want to talk about maybe albums that we're really liking or that we think will do well on this generally. And this is inspired by an album. I think this was last week you talked about it, the new record by Cindy Lee, Diamond Jubilee. And I've been super into this record lately. And for those who don't remember, this is a new project by one of the members of women. Is it Patrick?

Yeah, Patrick Flagell. And it's a 32 song. album. It's only available on YouTube and on this Geo City site that is so shady looking that I tried to post it on Twitter and Twitter would not let me post it.

Shadow banning yeah, it's just like a substack you know. They're just like you know, but it wasn't like a shadow banning thing. It was just like this looks we don't trust this link so you can't post it.

But I love the record and it the way I described it is this is like an indie band from like maybe like the late 80s, early 90s that if they put out a greatest hits record.

You know like this indie band that doesn't actually exist from like 30 or 40 years ago. Like that's what this record sounds like. Like a band that kind of like they kind of remind me a little of like bands like Stereo Lab broadcast those cool you know sort of European groups that

have like a mastery of like retro music style. like girl group pop, psych rock, you know, like Crout Rock, like that kind of stuff, electronic pop, all that together and just like a mastery of those different styles. And it reminds me also in a way of that DJ Sabrina, DJ Sabrina, the teenage DJ record, like not musically, but just in the form of like a really long album, that's like a lot of fun. That just seems to, again, draw from so many different styles of pop music. How are you feeling about this record?

I know you recommended it obviously last week. Would you count it as like one of the year's best so far? Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because I was kind of joking on the last episode about how this was like kind of the sort of album that would be all the rage amongst music writer Twitter in like 2010 or 11 because it does kind of hit on that style of, for lack of a better term, hauntological pop. but I think it like might actually happen. Like people are super into it.

And I do think the teenage DJ Sabrina, the teenage DJ comparison is great. I didn't think of that one. But it is kind of the same sort of experience in that, you know, when I'm listening to it and I'm immersed in this two hours, like, and very consistent. It's like, oh, this is fucking amazing. And then it's like something I might listen to one or two more times this year because it is like a real like, it is a, It is a journey and it's, you know, it's an obligation, not an obligation, but like you have to kind of just be all in. I find it difficult to go bit by bit. As far as like how it compares to like, you know, other women projects like public strain or the Viet Cong, you know, now called preoccupations, I put those above them because they're, you know, I think they do something a little more original.

But yeah, I think this record is going to be, I just think people were so hungry for an old. old school, like, music critic experience. The right place, right time. And I think this will... Just the way it's released, I think it's a lot of fun. Absolutely. That it feels a little like a secret that you've been let in on, you know? Like, the music, I think, is really great.

But just the way it's presented is really intriguing. And Cindy Lee itself as a project, there's a lot of mystery around it. apparently the tour that I think it's already started. Yeah. Might be seen them next Friday. They're playing San Diego of all fucking places. Yeah, it's like... And according to the Geo City site,

this is like the last Cindy Lee tour, I guess. But I've watched live clips on YouTube, and it's like a very theatrical live show. It looks very intriguing. Almost like a blue velvet type vibe. You know, like when Dean Stockwell is lip-sing. thinking Roy Orbison. It reminds me of that. Like that just sort of spooky, retro, very cool kind of theatrical presentation. So, man, I checked the tour. It's not coming to Minneapolis.

You should definitely go see it in San Diego. I want to hear what that's like to see in person. I bet it would be a great experience. So, yeah, I would say that the Cindy Lee record, definitely one of my favorites of the year. And I know I said a few minutes ago that I'm not going to rank albums yet. But if I have a top five, and I'm not ranking them, I'm just saying these are five albums I like a lot so far this year. I would say Cindy Lee's up there.

I would say the Liquid Mike record is up there. That band from the UP, very fun. Very fun band, very fun record. Got to put Vampire Weekend up there. I think that record's really good. Love Rosalie, bite down. That's among my favorites,

my five favorites, my five unranked favorites. And then I'll go with Waxahatchy. That's the chalk pick. But I think it's a really good record. So those are the ones that I have in mind, just for my personal consideration. I would say, like, in a broader sense, Waxahatchee and Vampire Weekends seem like they're going to do well. I don't know. What else is there for you, either personally or more broadly speaking?

Yeah, I mean, the Glass Beach album, that's going to be like probably beginning to end one of my favorites, if not the favorite. I think it's much. You've said that from the beginning. So is there anything close to Glass Beach? Or is that just like far and away? Yeah. You're number one so far. I've been kind of, I feel like I've been engaging in music kind of more on a singles sort of level this year.

I think that maybe, you know, the Cindy Lee album is certainly going to be up there. I like the Vampire Weekend album a lot. That's, you know, obviously a contender. I mean, I think the Manikin Pussy album is going to be one that you see. Like, we definitely have a top 10 starter pack going. you know, between that and Waxahatchy and Vampire Weekend and Beyonce. Like, I'm starting to see 2024 as a whole take shape. But, you know, I think just to skip ahead, I mean, the Howdy record is going to be up there, bed bug.

They're albums I like. But, you know, there's nothing that's really, oh, little kid that. See, most of the albums that, like, I really, really like are ones that have, like, barely been reviewed. despite not being all that off the beaten path. And so it kind of dampens, I guess, the enthusiasm for it. But there's stuff I like a lot. It's just weird to kind of go and say, yeah, man, like, Bedbug, this is my number three album in the year.

And like most people don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. Yeah, but that's what we're saying it. So it doesn't matter what anyone else is saying. It matters if we're saying it. You know, we are the arbiters here. It's nice to be the only indie podcast. Exactly. who cares about the rest of the world? It's only about what we think.

The Beyonce record is interesting because when that came out, immediately people were talking about not only it being the album of the year, but this is going to be the album that wins the Grammy for album of the year. Probably well. But don't you feel like there's been like a little bit of a fading with that album? I feel like it came out and people immediately reviewed it, which is strange for an album that's like three hours long. I mean, we're talking.

I mean, like that album, you talk about Cindy Lee being long, it's not much longer than the Beyonce record. It's about a half hour longer, which I guess is a, that's not insignificant. That's two Joyce Manor albums longer. Right. But I'm just saying, you know, that album is a marathon, that Beyonce record. And I do get the sense that once people sat with that record a little bit longer, that it lost some of its shine. If I can bring back the cliche here, this is going to be. The Lost at Shine episode

where we just talk about things either having it shine or losing a shine. But I don't know. I feel like that record, I'm curious how people are going to feel about it in six months. I feel like Renaissance had legs. I don't know about this album.

Yeah. We'll see though. We'll see though. I said like, oh yeah, it's definitely going to win all the Grammys. But like, you know, Billy Eilis just announced an album this week and God knows how much award shows love her.

So, I mean, Beyonce is definitely due for like a makeup call. Grammy album of the year? I mean, it isn't saying that she has not won.

She's won more Grammys than anyone else in history, but she hasn't won album of the year. Like, how is that not fishy? It's very strange.

And I say that as someone who doesn't really care about who wins album of the year, but, you know, just as a person who looks at the situation,

it's very odd that she has not won that award. Let's get to our mailbag. Thank you all for writing in. It's always great hear from our listeners. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com.

Ian, you want to read our first letter? All right. Hello, Ian slash Steve. Gets go in alphabetical order. Cranben, yay or nay. My wife loves them and we're going to see them next month. I'm sure vibes will be vibing. I'm Luke warm. Best, Drew and Cleveland. Drew and Cleveland. Are you going to go see Cranben in Cleveland? that seems like an incredible combination. Karangben and Cleveland. Yay or nay?

I'm going to say, I'm going to say yay. Not a strong yay, but I'm going to say yay. This is a band that I saw play live probably, God, what, four or five years ago? I think it was pre-pandemic. And they were playing in a club that was probably like 150 people there. And I really like the show. I had a good time. They're a very interesting band to look at, as well as to listen to, maybe more interesting to look at in some ways. You know, the guitar player is wearing this wig and he's playing like bluesy guitar. The bass player is like this beautiful woman who's like very charismatic and she's playing the bass, looking amazing. And then the drummer is like this big dude and he's laying it down in a very mellow way. but he's got a cool look about them.

They definitely have an aesthetic that's very definable, which is more than like 99% of bands can say. When I saw them play in that club, I didn't imagine that they would become this huge festival band. They seemed like a band that would be playing festivals at like 2 o'clock in the afternoon. And honestly, that's an amazing time to see them. I think like 2 o'clock in the afternoon,

Kerrangben would kill that slot. but now they're playing, you know, at night, I think they're headlining some festivals, like at least smaller festivals. Speaking of Coachella, they're at Coachella, they're like on the second line of the poster. I think they're like maybe three or four acts in. So they're like one of the big bands on the day that they're playing.

I think the problem that people have with this band is that they don't seem like they justify their popularity. You know, because there's not a whole lot to them. their music isn't terribly deep. I think it is very appealing on a superficial level, but if you're looking for music to say give you a cathartic emotional experience, you're not going to get it from this band. I will say, however, that I think you and your wife, Drew, in Cleveland,

will have a very good time at the show because I think they are a good live band. They're like, sort of like a basic jam band. They jam a little bit, but it's like very, it's like baby food jam band. You know, very palatable, very easy. And, you know, put your armor on your wife, smooch it up a little bit, groove to the music. It'll be a good thing. You know, have some cocktails.

It'll be a good night. So, yeah, I'm going to say a mild yay from me. I'm going to, like, divert from the crank ban, yay or nay discussion and ask if, like, Drew's a wife guy or not wife guy with this question. Because, you know, he's putting his feelings aside on this band. He's lukewarmover and going to the concert. with his wife, so that is like wife guy, but he's also kind of airing her out, her music taste out in this mailbag. So, we would all do that, though.

Yeah, totally. If you're not a wife guy in this respect, like you're not going to go to a show that your wife likes, just get divorced. Just live by yourself in a trailer if you're not willing to do that because you're a jerk. You got to do that. You got to go to the show that the wife likes. Absolutely. I won't say who I went to recently for that.

Who was it? Who was it? You got to say. Back in the day, I definitely went to see a Sylvan Esso show. Oh. I like Sylvan Esso. Yeah, they're fine. They're fine. But yeah, as far as, like, Cragman goes, like, I'm going to probably lose all but five people with this reference I'm going to make. But, you know, if you were a CD buyer back in, like, 2000, 2001, you might remember some of these like Luwaka Bop compilations like Saturday Night Fish Fry and Afro-Peruvian classics

where this label would compile, they'd make compilations of these genres that were really tough to come by back then, you know, like no one was by like a Shuggy Otis or Ous Mutante's album, but you would get them and, you know, you would put them on at a party and it would sound like super exotic and urban and it would be like, oh yeah, these people have good taste. It's music that like radiates good taste. And then we would listen to those and end up getting drunk and listening to like, is this it or I get wet or 12 golden country grades instead. And, you know, that's the kind of energy I'm getting from Cranbitt.

It's a nice sampler of, you know, kind of classy, exotic music. Also, I'm very disappointed to find out that guitarist is wearing a wig. I'm pretty sure it's a wig. I could be wrong. I don't mean to slander. I don't want to get sued for like hair slander here, but it looks like a wig. Well, we will, hopefully our Cragman heads will get to the bottom of this. But they remind me, like, I guess like I reflexively say, yeah, they're lame or whatever,

but I don't know if I really believe that. You know, I listen to their music and it sounds fine to me. It's sort of along the lines of Tyco, T-Y-C-H-O, that project that you see headlining just tons of festivals. And you don't really know anyone who loves them. but they're so good at what they do. They really exist at this overlap of a lot of, I guess we type of guys, type of people. You know, they do the psych rock thing.

They do the jam band thing. They do kind of like world music. I hate to use that term, but like it's kind of what they are. It's like if you think that like Tame and Paula are like too basic or that King Gizzard or like fish are a little too nerdy, crying bin's a band that really suits that need and I don't think they're clogging a lane I don't think they're doing anything bad

I don't have enough investment the kind of music that they play to have too strong of a negative opinion about them and I definitely I would not doubt that pitch four kicked the tires on them as a headliner this year but yeah I would say and I should say like their record

I said it came up this week it came out last week it's called Alasala his name of the album pitchwork was pretty kind to it. They gave it a 7.1. And I think that's a proper score for any Cranben album because you know, again, it's, I don't think it's

terribly deep music. It's not something that is ever going to define your life. But if you're having a dinner party and you want to put something on that no one will hate, they're perfect for that. Because it's the kind of music that everyone likes, but maybe not a lot of people love. So you need bands like that sometimes.

Dinner party music totally works. People have called this, like, there was like this Twitter thread going around about quote unquote co-worker music. And, you know, I think that's like a very fascinating genre. And I think

Cranben like belongs in there. It's like, you can do a lot worse, but you can do better. And they're just a band that like people dig. You know, like, it's really strange because on one level you want to say, oh, they're kind of like basic and they're not deep, but like the people who like them like them because of the music. Like

there's no other reason. It's not like they're thinking about, like, the subtext. In a way, it's like the most pure form of music fandom, which I have to appreciate. All right, well, let's get to our second letter. This is another yay or nay. It's yearnay. I was going to say year or nay Thursday because we're recording this on Thursday. We should have yay or nay Thursdays once a month.

This comes from Mark and Pittsburgh. Real Rust Belt theme here in the mailbag. AmC Central, yeah. Cleveland, Pittsburgh. Love it. Hi, Ian and Steve. Love the show. It's an automatic download every Friday.

Thank you, Mark. Ian's recent Huberman tweet. Also, he didn't capitalize Huberman in the email, Mark. Very tricky. It looked like a typo at first. Ian's recent tweet referencing Superman's Dead. Got me remembering some late 90s Canadian guys. Yay or nay on Our Lady Peace.

I feel like this is right. wheelhouse. I don't know if that's a compliment or not. We'll get to that in a second. I remember watching their videos on much music in high school and feeling like they never got the respect they deserved. That's the end of the email. The mark is in Pittsburgh,

reading your tweets, and just fuming about Our Lady Peace, not getting the respect they deserve. Yay or nay on Our Lady Peace, Ian. Yeah, it's interesting that he said, like this is right in Steve's wheelhouse because I'm like, I'm a pretty regular OLP tweeter. I like them in Justin for the fact that they had their breakthrough album Clomsy and called the next one, happiness dot dot dot is not a fish you can catch. Very Zingle-Lamadouni

slash Secret Samadhi, like following up your breakthrough with a thunderously dumb album title. I like the fact they made like a dumb down radio head album called Spiritual Machines. and I saw them perform that live in Charlottesville, Virginia. So what I love about Our Lady piece is that they really hit that sweet spot between being nowhere near as artsy and smart as they think they are, but they're definitely smarter than the average alt-rock time filler. So you get this band who's like kind of ambitious in a way that they can't wrap their arms around. But look, I can't say I've heard an entire album of theirs,

but even when I lived with a person in my first year dorm room who put play clumsy on repeat. But look, Superman's dead, clumsy, one-man army, mafia right behind you. Parenthetical, it's the one with Matt Cameron on the drums. Is anybody home? 4 a.m.? This band has fucking bangers. But the thing that I

would be interested in exploring greater depth, I feel this is kind of like basic in terms of like Canuck Corps, if you want to call it. I mean, we got to talk Matthew Good Band, Big Rec, I Mother Earth, a kind of line crush. Like, maybe we can like

delve in deeper. Maybe this is just something for the Patreon though. That's a big yay for me, by the way. You know, sometimes I'm on this show and I forget that I'm hosting it because I just get wrapped up in hearing you talk about some band. I know nothing about

or don't give a shit about. And I'm just glued to what you're saying because it's fascinating to me even though I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Mark, I'm going to disappoint you here. I'm neither yay or nan this band, I have to push because I don't know one Our Lady Peace song. I listen to them

for a little bit in preparation for this episode. I think that's the first time I ever knowingly listened to Our Lady Peace. And I have to say, like, I think that this reveals a very small generation gap between you and me, Ian. I'm like a little bit older than you. And like, when this band was hitting, I was in college. This is like late 90s. And, And I really wasn't listening to like a lot of radio rock at that time. You know, I was listening to like indie rock essentially. So this micro generation of bands that were making just like rock radio gruel, you know, just pumping it out. I'm not as knowledgeable about it.

And I would, I'd probably be more knowledgeable about the bands that came a little bit after this or the ones that came a little bit before. Like, I can talk for a long time about sponge. because they're a little bit earlier. That's like more mid-90s. But like late 90s, I don't know. I feel like this reveals a blind spot for me. So yeah, that whole riff you went on there, you could have been making up song titles.

And I'd just be nodding my head along because I had no idea. So I have to say push. I am Our Lady Peace ignorant. What a revelatory. That was so revelatory. I think we need to like explore further, the difference between 1998 alt rock which was my first year of college and like the the peak of winamp downloading and like 1996 or 2001 i i love the micro generation gaps that appear between

myself myself and like other writers yeah because there's like this band and like days of the new oh yeah i'd also i'd also put in that category i'm trying to think of like other better than Ezra is probably there. I think they're your error, right? Well, the thing is, like, I worked at my college paper, and we would listen to the top 40 station. So, like, I know a lot of those bands. Like, I'm up on Matchbox 20.

I'm up on Better Than Ezra, because they were more on top 40 radio than rock radio. I know, like, third-eye blind. Like, those bands I know. But, like, there's the top 40 rock bands. And then there's like the rock radio rock bands. And I think Our Lady piece is more of like the rock radio side. Marcy Playground, like I know that band.

They're on the top 40 side. So like that's my late 90s radio rock. So yeah, it's not even radio rock. It's like I know radio rock, but I know top 40 radio rock. I don't know rock radio rock. So yeah, this is a very minute distinction, but it's important. I guarantee like our listeners would love for us to talk about this like granular difference for hours.

I'm like not, that's like not me being sarcatic. I know. I know me neither. I would love it. And I think I'm realizing this as we're talking about it. I had not thought about it until we like we're literally on the mic here talking about it. But yeah, I think that is a very real distinction.

And there is this generation of late 90s rock radio rock bands that maybe are a little under discussed, you know, because. the top 40 rock bands. You could put smash mouth in there too, Sugar Ray, stuff like that. That's also in that camp. I know that stuff pretty well, but the other stuff I don't know as well.

And I think this might need some further scholarly exploration by us on this podcast. So are we plotting a themed episode at some point in the future? We're going to get a lot of really awesome mailback questions out of this by people who are like asking like whether the toadies fall into like one of those two categories. They kind of bridge the worlds, I feel like. Yes. Or semi.

Well, we've had a semi-sonic one before, but I think better than that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, better than, semi-sonics is definitely top 40 rock. Verve pipe, you know, seven Mary three. They bridge the world. Yeah, they bridge. Well, it cumbersome is top 40, but then I guess there's probably other seven-Mary-3 songs.

River, Water's Edge. Yeah, and I believe me, I do not have the Seven Mary three Wikipedia open. This is just off the dome stuff. Like, this is how you're getting, this is how you're getting the good material. I love how Our Lady Peace has just dres up like so much more of like a compelling narrative than Coachella. This is pure Indycast. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first?

All right, so I know this is very much, for lack or better term, Coencore, but let's talk about a Detroit Screamo band with seven members. I just love when the Screamo song is less than two minutes long, and it's kind of like blurry, and it's not like they have like Glock and Spiel and things like that, but it's seven members. And so this is a band called Heavenly Blue. They have a new album out today called We Have the Answer, released on the Always Reliable Secret Voice label run by Jeremy Baum of Tushay Amore.

And, yeah, there's a lot of heavy music this year, you know, whether it's Screamo or like kind of artsy metal, hasn't really hit for me. You know, even with the critically acclaimed stuff, sometimes it can kind of all blend together. This one did stand out to me, maybe because it's. It does sound like seven people have made it. Otherwise, it might be because the songs are shorter and more punchy. But there's an ambition here that really is pleasing to me. And you can see them kind of going on.

If you liked a frail body, another great record, I don't think I got to talk about, or Infant Island. Yeah, there's a lot of cool bands like doing kind of more ambitious screamo this year. And this is maybe my favorite of the bunch. So Heavenly Blue, we have the answer. All right, so before I do my recommendation this week, I looked at Twitter while you were talking about your recommendation. And I wanted to be the person to tell you this. O.J. Simpson died. Yeah, I want to do kind of the Our Lady piece instead of Huberman's dead.

That tweet, I'll do like OJ Simpson's dead in the R. Lady's voice. You know how to course. So you just went immediately to the tweet. Like, what am I going to tweet? I tell you this news. I was expecting more of a reaction. You're just going right into that. That's because I know he's dead.

I saw, oh, yeah, I got an Apple. I was hoping I could surprise you that he died. Apple music, or not Apple Music, Apple News had a alert that popped up on my phone in the middle.

Okay. And you were able to still perform on the show, even though you knew OJ Simpson died? That's the amount of focus you have for Indycast. That's very impressive. Didn't throw you for a loop. I want to recommend a documentary that is, coming out today in theaters as well as on video on demand. So Amazon, Apple, wherever you

rent films. It's called Lost Angel, the genius of Judy Sill. And I just got the screener for this last night. So I haven't actually been able to finish this movie yet. I've seen a good chunk of it. And it's really great so far. So I feel good about recommending it. Judy Sill is just a fascinating cult hero in folk rock circles. She's a singer-songwriter, put out some records in the 70s, and in terms of her contemporary relevance, she's a big influence on people like Big Thief, Fleet Fox's, Wise Blood, a lot of, you could say, folkie acts, singer-songwriter acts, they all revere Judy Sill. And along with her music just being fantastic, she has like an incredible backstory.

You know, before she was famous, she was living in her car, she was working as a sex worker, she was addicted to heroin, just living a real down and out life. And two years later, she was on the cover of Rolling Stone. Just an amazing trajectory. But then just as quickly as she rose to fame, she really fell back into a very destructive lifestyle, and she ended up passing away in 1979. her death was ruled a suicide, but there's some doubt as to whether her drug overdose was intentional or not. So along with just having a great musical history that is, you know, the people that know her,

revere her, but she's still not super well-known. You have that going on, and then again, you just have like one of the more fascinating musician backstories of anyone you're going to see. So this movie, I definitely recommend it. If you're a fan, it pays proper tribute to her. If you're unfamiliar, again, I think the story is so compelling that you're going to want to get sucked in and you'll probably end up being a fan. So, Lost Angel, the genius of Judy Sil, it's in theaters now, or you can watch it at home on video on demand. That about does it for this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news reviews and hashing out trends next week.

And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.