Indiecast - Destroyer + Oso Oso, Plus: Lollapalooza and Will Butler Leaves Arcade Fire

Episode Date: March 25, 2022

Destroyer is a band that has been around for so many years, they seems to exist in their own realm. This week on Indiecast, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen dig into Destroyer's new album Labyrinthitis (33:23) and wonder if the band is now immune to criticism from music reviewers. Oso Oso, on the other hand, is being picked up by music outlets. It seems as though their surprise-released album Sore Thumb (42:06) is finally putting them on the indie music map.This week also had some big news in indie music: Will Butler announced he has officially left Arcade Fire (:27). Indiecast talks about Butler's decision and discusses Arcade Fire's new music (3:24). Steven and Ian also walk through Lollapalooza's 2022 lineup (14:22), which was just unveiled this week and includes the apparently controversial headliner Metallica.In this week's Recommendation Corner (53:36), Ian's highlights several bands including Caracara, Soul Glo, Proper., and Carly Cosgrove. Steven praises music by MJ Lenderman and Wednesday’s recent covers album, Mowing The Leaves Instead Of Piling Em Up.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 82 below and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail] and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indicast is presented by Uprox's Indie Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to IndieCast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review new albums by Destroyer and Oso Oso. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. Hi, friends. He has left Arcade Fire.

Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? Yes, I've left Arcade Fire, but I have joined Amusement Parks on Fire, which I think I heard that that band is still active. So that's a real remember some guys cut. Yeah. That is beyond me. I don't know that band at all.

Yeah, they were like a shoegaze band that had absolutely nothing at all to do with Arcade Fire, but like also made an album in 2004. So. Also had Comments on Fire back then. Well, comments on Fire. Yeah, that's an Indycast Hall of Fame type band. I used to rock. Yeah, they're a great band.

What's that one with the Blue Cover? Blue Cathedral. Yeah, that one's sick. Any other fire bands from that? the 2000s? We'll probably think of a million. Yeah, yeah. We're just going to be talking about Destroyer

and all of a sudden, like some band that was on like Danger Bird Records in 2004 will pop into my head. But yeah, we should, you know, for those who don't know, in my intro to Ian, I was referencing the big indie news of the week, which very rudely

dropped over the weekend after our episode posted. I just want to say the indie bands, if you're going to have a resignation, do it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Preferably Wednesday by, say, end of business so that Ian and I can address it on the podcast. Otherwise, it feels like we're talking about old news. But this is a big story in the indie world.

Will Butler has quit Arcade Fire. Now, Win Butler. Win Butler is the front man. Yes. Will Butler is his brother. Will Butler is like the utility infielder of Arcade Fire. I remember, I don't know if you ever saw this. They were on Austin City Limits.

I think this was Suburbs era, that episode culminates with Will Butler picking up a potted plant and, like, banging it. Like, he's playing a plant. Like, that's how... Are you sure that's not the helmet guy? Who's the helmet guy? Richard Reed Parry. No, it was definitely Will Butler. Okay.

Because Will Butler was the excitable one in our kid. I feel like he was the most demonstrative. He'd be running around. He'd be banging a drum. you know, he's like dancing behind like a keyboard, he's playing a potted plant, like that was Will Butler. I like Will Butler and Arcade Fire.

Like when I saw them, he was one of the most entertaining people to watch on stage. Even though it's not quite clear, like what he did in the band. He kind of, you know, playing a keyboard, he's banging a drums, playing a potted plant, whatever the song called for.

Isn't there like a guy in payment that sort of had that role? That's Bob. But I think he basically just kind of of scream though. I don't think he was maybe he was banging a drum. I don't know. Well, now that, hopefully Arcade Fire will make another record soon after Wee and we'll figure out like, oh yeah, this is definitely

Post Will Butler. But, you know what? Well, hey, you just referenced the name of the new album. I feel like we have to fill in people. The new album is called We, Arcade Fire. They announced this record last week. We talked about this in our previous episode that they were going to be releasing a single and that single dropped almost immediately after we got done recording, which again, Arcade Fire.

Yeah. You know, not great. I mean, Will Butler announcing this resignation also seems like bad timing because Arcade Fire, they released this single, The Lightning One and Two. It's like two songs. And it seemed like the buzz online was positive, right? I mean, it seems like people are into the song. And I think you and I like it.

Yeah. I mean, I was into it. Yeah, I like this song. I mean, I think there's like a pretty obvious, hey, we're getting back to the song. basics. We're doing what Arcade Fire does, particularly in the second half. And I think, like, look, I think that the reception overall is positive. I think they've got momentum going into this. I also think that, like, you know, Will Butler leaving Arcade Fire as, as opposed to multiple allegations have come forth about Will Butler, which I've seen plenty of happen to plenty bands.

But, you know, like, what, there are two things that come up as far as, like, this song and the reception to it. First off, I mean, I think we just kind of, like, I just, I'm just left to wonder, like, man, how bad must it be to be in Arcade Fire if you are the utility guy? You know, you're not really writing the songs. You know, there's not a lot of pressure. Your brother's in the band. And it seems like pretty cushy as far as, like, big indie rock positions go. You know, it's like being like the 10th man on an NBA franchise. You know, you're not the dude, but you're still a millionaire. Yeah, but maybe you want to be on the court.

You know, maybe he'll was like, hey, because he's made solo records that are, you know, pretty solid solo. I mean, I don't think they're spectacular, that they're good. He may be like, I don't want to be the 12th man. I want to, I want to be the main butler. Put me and coach. I'm ready to play, you know? He's probably mad at his parents because they named the other guy, Wynn.

It's like his name's win. It just seems like it's predestined that he's going to be the dominant one. Is that short for something? Is he like Winfred, Winfred Butler or like Winston? or I never. It's got to be. It's got to be short for something like fancy like that. I love that the last name is Butler too

because it just makes you think of Butler. Right, Butler. Exactly. But I was just going to say like, don't you think that this departure by Will Butler, it's a little weird, the timing of it? He said that he's been out of the band for a while now. Dan Beckner was playing with them on stage.

Why would he announce it right after they announced a single? It just seemed like it kind of sucked the air out of the momentum for that song. Yeah. Look, I mean, we are used to, at least, you know, post-suburbs, Arcade Fire have printing, like, involved in multimedia album rollouts. I mean, maybe this is like, you know, the precursor to Will Butler getting back together and bearing out the we concept. Because I think we do have to mention it. I think the Muse album dropped on this, was announced on the same day.

And, you know, there were some jokes like, hey, which one is doing this muse or arcade fire? this album is split into two parts, right? It's got the I and the we part where it's like about the personal issues and what we all struggle through as a community. And maybe

you know there's like a reconciliation at the end that makes it... Oh so you're, you think this is like some chicanery going on there. We are through the looking glass kids. Will he's pretending to leave but then there will be some reconciliation maybe the week before the album drops in May.

Is this what you're saying? Are you throwing this out there? It's brother shit, you know? Like, oh, like, we're done. I'm never talking to your brother again. And then, of course, because, like, you live in the same house. You know, it's like nothing happens. Like, I've had many, many blowups with my brother over, like, NHL-95

that I thought were irreconcilable. But then again, we also weren't in the arcade fire. So I can only speculate on, you know, the demands of being in that band. You know, I mentioned earlier that Bechner has performed with Arcade Fire. By the way, Arcade Fire, they played a show at the Bowery Ballroom. Yes.

A surprise gig, which is from the, we're going back to basics playbook. Yes. You know, we're going to do the small show. We're going to invite a bunch of music writers who will definitely tweet about it, and they will shoot, you know, camera videos and we'll get all this free publicity.

Did you have to wear a, Did you have to wear like a three-piece suit to this one, like with the Everything Now show? Wait, was that the Reflector shows or the Everything Now shows where you had to wear a suit? I don't remember. I think it was, was it everything now? I think it was everything. That's like when everything coalesced into like the worst. I actually think that was Reflector.

Was it Reflector? I think it was Reflector. Because I do remember like going to a album release show at Capitol Records in L.A. And this was like people had to like what like people were encouraged to dress up real nice. And of course that was like, even in 2013, people were like, hey man, this, I don't know if this is the best look. Well, I think for for this, because they're going back to basics, arcade fire is like smash your monocles, break your, you know, your top hat. Come here and cut off, you know, shirts, like sleeveless shirts and jeans. Yeah, Dan Bockner, man.

taken Arcade Fire into their sleeveless era. You know, I think it'd be a great bit if, like, members of Arcade Fire kept quitting, and then they replaced them with members of Wolf Parade. Oh, yeah, yeah, or Hot Hot Heat. Well, no, I just like the idea of, like, Arcade Fire gradually just becoming Wolf Parade. Like, everyone quits, and then they just keep adding Wolf Parade members, and eventually they're just Wolf Parade. But maybe they're called Arcade Fire still.

I think that would be a great bit. That would be a funny, conceptual idea. idea if they want to go down that road again. Win Butler, if you're listening, I think that'd be a pretty funny idea. Yeah, because that actually, like, that's a great idea because I think both of those bands could use each other's, like, influence right now. I think Wolf Parade, the band itself has gotten a little too, like, modest in their presentation and, like, Arcade Fire has gotten away from that, like, you know, Canadian collective rock

sound. So, I mean, this is just, like, a merger that's going to be as beautiful as Time Warner AOL. I think it needs to happen. What is your sense right now in the year 2022, like where Arcade Fire stands in terms of their popularity? Like, I'm not quite clear on it. I mean, it's been a while since everything now came out. You know, you and I, we've come up with Arcade Fire.

We're inclined to care about them. When this album comes out, I'm sure we'll talk a bunch about it, whether it's good or bad. I have, you know, I think we both have said that we want this album to be good. And we like this new single. the fact that this single, once again reiterates the influence of my boys in the war on drugs. I feel like everyone now who wants to make big sounding rock music, not everyone, but a lot of bands, it seems like they're emulating the war on drugs.

And this is almost like maybe the arcade fire, like they saw what the killers did on imploding the Mirage. And they're like, we want some of that love that they got for that record. So we're going to do something similar. It feels like a little like that to me. But anyway, how do you feel like, where do you, like, where do people stand with Arcade Fire? Like, is this going to be a cause for excitement, or are they sort of, like a dad rock band now? Are they just like a middle-aged rock band?

Yeah, I don't quite know because, I mean, this is really right out of the YouTube playbook. It's like maybe like they're a version of Beautiful Day. But like Arcade Fire, despite how liberally they're borrowing from that playbook, are nowhere near as popular as U2. I think even during the reflector days, they were kind of the, yeah, they can play Madison Square Garden, but like they might not fill it. And I think throughout the country, there was just reports about like how they were maybe in over their heads as a hockey arena filling band. I do wonder if they see themselves as having been a little right-sized by the past couple of years, which I got to, I just have to bring up, though, that like everything now, the title track,

like that was, like, I think the first arcade fire song that was getting played on, like, K Rock and places like that. So, you know, maybe they've got, like, some momentum from that. But, yeah, I don't know how popular arcade fire is. Like, maybe they're at that, like, St. Vincent level where, you know, they'll play, they'll be a top line festival act, but they're not really going to be a draw in that way. like maybe they're as popular as war on drugs yeah there's really no

comparison I can think of for this I think it's going to be a sort of band though that is way more popular for people of our generation than a younger one like I don't know what arcade fire means to someone who is 22 years old right now yeah they just seem so out of step with what you're like with the indie acts

that connect with a broad audience normally, it seems like the new normal now is you have one person who is the point person than you have backing musicians essentially. I guess I'm thinking of like Tame and Pala being an example here of like maybe certainly one of the biggest indie crossover acts of the last 10 years. Taman Pala is way bigger than Arcade Fire right now. Oh, absolutely. And they are, they're an arena band now.

And they scan as rock, but there's also obvious pop elements to what. he does and also, you know, people, it seems like in terms of, like, how bands are marketed now, it's easier to base it around one person, like an autort, rather than a group of people. In an arcade fire, you have, like, all these people. Yeah. Maybe it'll just be win and regime. Maybe that's going to be the vocal point now with that band rather than, like, the orchestra of members.

And I'm curious to see how that evolves. Yeah. I also think you have to mention, like, I know that there are other members of the the war on drugs, but it's still, like, seen as a very atom-fronted thing. Oh, sure. Yeah. So I, but yeah, I think it's kind of an interesting sort of like snake eating its own tail sort of thing where like the, like, I think maybe you can think some arcade fireish stuff going on in early war on drugs, but now that like latter day war on drugs is influencing arcade fire, it was sort of like how like, yeah, like the strokes influencing Phoenix and then,

you know, the strokes coming around to sort of sound like Phoenix as well. It's always interesting. to watch how that stuff cycles through. So I feel like we have to talk about the Lollapalooza lineup that was announced this week. And, you know, we're big fans on this show of the Beale Street Music Festival in Memphis. Yes. Which is, we love it for the randomness of it. Like, you go to that festival and you're going to see Snoop Dogg and Lindsay Buckingham and the Jim Blossoms. It just seems like incoherent in terms of programming a festival for a certain kind of person.

But it seems like now all festivals are like that. Like the Lala Palooza lineup, these are the top lineers. We have Metallica, which is a story in itself because Metallica in the 90s headlined Lalapalooza when it was a traveling festival. Yeah. Which I don't even know people remember. The young people probably don't know that. It is so hard for people to conceive that a festival, well, actually, I mean,

Rolling Loud sort of does that, the hip-hop festival, but it only goes to like Miami and L'A. But, yeah, like, La Laloosa would come to, like, a lot of cities, right? Yeah, it was a touring festival. It was known as this alternative festival. You'd have all these alt rock bands as well as rappers, and then you'd have, you know, Jim Rose, his whole thing with, you know, Shower and monks. Yeah, all that stuff.

And then Metallica Headland in 96, and it was this big scandal because it was seen as a betrayal of what Wallapalooza was supposed to represent, Which is hilarious now because Lallapalooza, you know, it stands for nothing. I mean, there's no one out there, I think, defending the sanctity of Lallapalus. Not even Perry Farrell, probably. But top-eyed handliners, you have Metallica, you have Dua Lepa, J. Cole, Green Day, Doja Cat, Machine Gun Kelly, Little Baby, Gigo, who I only know from Festival posters, by the way, Gygo. I always see Gigo one as a time. Topline headliner.

Who fuck is Gago? I have no idea. Wait, is that K-YGO? Is that it? Yeah, I'm assuming, unless there's, yeah, it's a Norwegian DJ. Okay. And then you have glass animals, Billy Strings, Big Sean, the Kickleroy, Jasmine Sullivan, yada, yada, yada, yada.

And it's just like, who is the person that would want to see all of those people? Who's the person that wants to see Green Day and also Doja Cat? Okay. Is that person exist? I think so, because I mean, if you look at it, like Machine Gun Kelly is like the midpoint between those two acts and that, you know, it's like pop punk like Green Day but kind of shitposty in the same way Doja Cat is. Yeah, I think the one thing that like we didn't talk about with like Metallica in 96 is that, you know, in addition to like they try to go all. Alt Rock and, you know, that it more or less killed the first iteration of Lalapalooza. But like, what happened with Metallica is that everyone would come just as, there'd be so

many people would come just to see Metallica and like no other bands. And, yeah, it's like, I don't know who's coming to see like, and, like, you just got to flood people with music. And it's like, okay, well, Lollapalooza, I guess I can go see like glass animals play their song. And I like Doja Cat. I mean, maybe we're just like out of touch with how people experience music now because like Lollapalooza back in the day, that was like what, 10 bands?

Am I, like, I may miss from not remembering it? It'd be something like, I mean, I think there were a couple stages. Okay. So there would be like the main stage and a smaller stage. So it might have been closer to like 20 bands. Okay. Still, like that's like we have controversies now about like Lollapalooza because some bands or some artists are pissed that their festival is so. their name is so small.

There's one guy like Lucas Joyner who wants to who wants to drop off because he's pissed that his name is so much smaller than Machine Gun Kelly's. Who's Lucas Joyner? He's, I think, an R&B act.

I'm not familiar with his work. I, am, I thought just the name Lucas Joyner, oh, that sounds like maybe like one of those like bro country sort of things, like Luke Bryan

or something like that, but it turns out that he he is mad. And this, You hear about this sometimes While A did this with a rap festival, he was so pissed about where his name was on the poster. I think more artists should do this to drum up

bullshit controversy. Oh, I love it. Well, I was just looking at the poster. You have Charlie X-C-X on the fourth line. Future of Pop, baby. Future of Pop, and my boy, Billy Strings... I don't know who that is. The jam scene, he's the king of jam grass right now. He's like, he does bluegrass, but it's a jam band. I got them confused with Billy Towers. who is a very different band.

No, Billy Strings, man, on the third line, and he's, like, right below glass animals. Wow. He's a big live draw. Okay. Happy. You know, I'm not a huge Billy Strings fan. I'm hoping to be converted, but, you know, shout out to the jam scene. I like seeing Billy Strings being ranked so high.

I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, maybe we're out of touch, but I do think... No way. We are not. Just looking at the first two lines, like Metallica and Green Day are really the ones that stand out to me, because they're the... They're the big exceptions on this list because you have Metallica originates in the 80s. I'm sure there's going to be people who this year will come out only to see Metallica. Absolutely.

And then you have Green Day, you know, I guess they started in the 80s, but you think of them as like a 90s band, maybe Otts Band. Those two bands, it just seems like, okay, we want to get middle-aged people at this festival. Yeah, they bring their kids. I mean, that's a funny experience. I can think of so many 18-year-olds that I talk to at work who's like, yeah, my dad went and saw a tool. So, but yeah, you think about like if you were, if you had a kid at 25 years old or something like that, you know, your kid will be 17 or 18, like at this. And you're in your age now, your kid will be 17. So I mean, this could very well be like literally like Homer Palooza, you know, where you got to.

the Homer Simpson bring in their like 10 and 11 year old kids and you know he wants to see you know the bong rattling base of Mike Dernt and the kids aren't into it so so yeah I just look forward to the day where I can take my kids to Lalapalooza and they can go see Geigo I have no idea why you're pronouncing it with a G it's clearly a K in the first letter Kigo Kigo I don't I don't fucking know I'm pretty sure it's not guy go I was Well, that's, I think, my Midwestern accent coming out. I'm trying to say the K, and it's coming out sounding like a G. But anyway, my kids, they'll see, like, the DJ, and then I'll be like,

the Goldman Sachs DJ or? Oh, yeah, there's a Goldman Sachs DJ at Lalapalooza. See, now the spirit of the Peri-Farrell festival has truly died. Yeah. You know, all of the stock that we've put in Lollapalooza, it just totally melted away. We've talked way too much about Lalapalooza. We have to move this episode along. Let's get to our mailbag segment.

Thank you all for writing to us. We always love hearing from our listeners. If you want to hit us up, we're at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Before we read our next letter, I feel like we should acknowledge. We got some South by Southwest blowback this week. Oh, Lord. Got some tweets, got some emails from people who didn't appreciate us being a little dismissive of South by Southwest. There were people.

I think, I know for sure we got one email from a low. local in Austin who was talking about how great South by Southwest was this year. He's like, I'm going to all these shows for free. You know, great spots on the floor, eating free food. The Doritos tent was amazing.

You know, all that stuff. So anyway, I just want to acknowledge that. We hear your blowback. Some people, they just wanted to defend South by Southwest. I just got to say, like, I barely heard about South by Southwest. I heard that Kevin from,

Aon Station, our guy, Kevin Whelan, tore his ACL or something like that. Oh, man. Yeah, a guy who's, like, had historically good luck in the music industry, like, plays this like really awesome show and he injures his ACL, like, awesome. It's like the OBJ injury, you know, in the Super Bowl. Sports and pop culture meeting at last. Kevin Whelan will. He'll heal up.

He works for Johnson and Johnson. So, you know, he can heal up pretty good, I'm sure. He gets, like, free, like, what's that stuff that they wrap around your leg, the, like, wrapping tape or something? I don't know. Anyway. Whatever. Do you want to read our letter?

Yes, I do. Oh, this is a great question. So it's from Mark from Bremen, Germany. Shout to our international people. First Germany. Yes. This is the first Germany letter? Could be?

I don't remember. We get a lot of, like, Australia. Australia and Latin America and South America, I feel like that is our international strongholds. We haven't been to Germany yet. I'm three-quarters German. So this speaks to me. These are my people. All right.

Hello, Stephen and Ian. I heard you reference Blender magazine a couple of episodes back. This guy's bringing up the deep cuts. Do you have any thoughts on the magazine? Blender had a special place in my heart as it came out when I was in my peak music discovery phase. Besides Rolling Stone and Spin, I was always enamored by the... the British music mag such as Q and Uncut

and Blender seen the fancy itself as an American version of one of those minus the free CDs on the cover. Oh man, I missed those. What I liked about Blender

was the reviews. The sheer number gave me exposure to bands I probably wouldn't have ever known about specifically I recall a band

the KGB who do not seem to appear on Spotify and are remembering some guy's band they had a song on the pilot of the O.C. Wow. I don't know who that band is.

Mark. He's... Man. Yeah, this is... Going deep. The KGB. Like, I mean, they do exist.

I was like, is this like a band that was like, hey, we want to start up, like, we're going to rip off inner pole. Like, so we're just going to call ourselves KGB. Oh, yeah. That's, that's, uh, I bet you're right about that. I mean, he could be pulling our leg here too. I mean, we have no idea. This band exists apparently, and their genres are scoff, funk, and rock.

They were on DreamWorks Records. Oh, I got a, yeah. And rock. This is like a future indie cast all of fame type band. I'm going to find this shit. You know, that, I'm just trying to imagine now a band naming themselves after a law enforcement agency. For Russia. It just wouldn't happen.

Or for anyone, you know, like, it just would not fly. It's like rappers naming themselves after dictators, you know, like it. I don't think we're going to get that anytime soon. Probably not. So, remembering some magazines here. I like this. You know, it's unfortunate with Blender because I don't think they have an online presence. You can't find their articles on the internet.

So they've really been wiped off the face of the earth. You know, you can't even cite old Blender interviews, you know, if you're going to be writing about a band. Yeah. Which is unfortunate. I remember Blender. I do. I think I subscribed to it for a time. I mean, this is a long time ago.

We're talking about 20 years ago. my memory of Blender is that it was essentially like a snarkier version of spin. Yes. That, you know, and more irreverent. And I feel like they had this warm attitude that was in vogue at the time, you know, similar to like, say, like, Vice Magazine or something. Or embracing, like, sort of the decadent side of music history. You know, I remember, like, issues celebrating, like, the hair metal era and things like that,

you know, kind of leaning into that a little bit in a way that seems out of fashion. Now, the main thing that this letter made me think about, and this is a little bit of a tangent maybe from what Mark was talking about, but it made me want to go on a rant about my biggest pet peeve with music writing now, which is the infusion of academic language into music reviews. I feel like that's so prevalent now, and people don't even realize it because it's so common. but you just read reviews now and it reads like academic journals. And I mean, this was parodied by that famous tweet about the bodies and spaces type thing.

Goop on your Grinch. Yeah, Goup on you Grinch. That commented on that, and that was such a great parody that I wish people would have changed their ways a little bit with that. I just feel like music writing used to be a lot more irreverent. Yeah. Like when we started, Pitchfork certainly was a lot more irreverent than it is now. And there were accesses to that.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying that that's perfect. But I feel like we've gone to the opposite extreme now. And things are so dry. And people are writing like they want to be a, you know, that they want to teach like a music course at NYU. I mean, like a lot of the writing is like that now. And I hate it.

I really hate that trend. Yeah. And so thinking about Blender, it just, again, like Blender, it's not like it was the greatest magazine in the world. It wasn't my favorite magazine by any means when it was out. But the irreverence of that magazine is something that I feel some nostalgia for. Yeah, I mean, the irreverence particularly of that era, despite, I guess, the comeback of indie slees. You know, like, it's not totally a net positive.

Like, I mean, a lot of people felt unheard during that era. And we didn't even bring up the fact that Grimes killed hipster runoff, which is like kind of the, like, tail end of the era that started with Vice. Oh, yeah, that was a, yeah, that almost seems like a special Indycast episode. That story about Grimes hacking, hipster runoff. We just talked too long about Arcade Fire and Lallopalooza, but I don't know.

Maybe that's like an unfolding story, and we could talk about that in the future episode. But what I remember Blender as, again, this is like from my peak, like, I'm just going to go into borders to, you know, to peruse the music magazines from, like, the UK. I remember it, like, being kind of,

proto-pop-optimism in that, like, they were really into Ashley Simpson and, like, the Riloh-Kiley albums after execution of all things that I wasn't into. But they were also kind of quasi-maxim in a way. Like, it would say, like, Kelly Clarkson's like a genius, but also have, like, Kelly Clarkson, like, wearing, like, a bikini top on the cover. And, like, I feel like that was this kind of, like, weird tension going on because it was actually owned by Maxim. Here's like the funnest fact about Blender magazine. Like most magazines, it ended up being bought out by its own media company. And that company is called Alpha Media Group, consolidated all their media holdings into Maxim.

And if you had a subscription to Blender and after it got canceled, you got sent Maxim instead to make up for it. Which, you know, I'm sure that was like very well received. but like you were saying like I don't think that this this era should always be like you know nostalgiaise is that a word but yeah I do think there wasn't a reverence to it which was A ahead of its time and be kind of fun because they would have these they would have like entire discography rankings

it was almost like an all music guide with like more jokes and they would have just like these weird offshoots shit they were into, like country artists or like commercial rap or they were, they took emo pretty seriously. So, and also, like, it was hard for writers to get paid in 2004. Like, oddly enough, that's like the one part of the music industry where, where like things were worse in a way. Because, like, as a music writer, you can get paid in so many different ways in 2022. Like, in 2004, I thought you had to, like, you know, save somebody's life. or like be related to somebody to get a job paying in a music magazine.

Well, yeah, and it was before social media. So like if you didn't know editors personally, it was almost impossible to get into a magazine, whereas now it's easy to rub shoulders, like with big editors in a digital space. Like us. Everyone knows, exactly. Everyone knows who the editors are at the big places.

Whereas then, I mean, you look in the masthead, but, you know, there wouldn't be any contact. information for anyone. I mean, you had to really be tight with whoever was working at these places in order to get work. Yeah, again, I don't want to overstate the quality of something like Blender. I mean, I think it was a fine magazine. I don't think it was great. It wasn't like the greatest thing in the world or anything. But yeah, I do appreciate the irreverence of it. And I guess I just want a little bit more of that now, because I just feel like things have gotten so serious and so academic.

I also think they were like open to like just completely like shitting on like popular bands. Like I think that is the one thing about that era that we don't have now, which is that you might get the one person who dislikes a band at a magazine or a publication writing about it. And now it's like you're probably going to find the person who like feels positively about it unless the entire staff is against it. Yeah. And that's a catch 22 because I hear, you know, we've talked about that before on this

show about, you know, there's complaints about how there's never negative reviews anymore. And it's because publications are inclined to seek out people who are actually familiar with the band or the genre to write about the artist, which is, you know, a good thing. I think we would agree, even if it results in reviews that tend to lean more positive. I mean, everyone wants negative reviews unless it's of a band that they like or of a genre that they like. Yeah. You know, like, back in the day, people were shitting on emo bands all the time. Yeah.

You know, because people who didn't really know that genre were writing about it. And I don't think people who love emo would like that kind of thing now. Or, or anything, you know, any other genre, or metal or any other genre that's sort of outside the mainstream.

Yeah. Was more apt, I think, to be, to be shit on than anything else. Let's get to the meat of our episode. And we have a lot of meat to get to. here. We're talking about two albums

here. One album is out today. One came out last week, but it was a surprise record. On Friday. Ian talked, yeah, also, you talked a little bit about, it's funny because we talked about both of these albums in Recommendation Corner last week. But, you know, they deserve some more attention,

I think. They do. So we're putting them into the meat of this episode. First, let's talk about Destroyer. Of course, the project of Dan Behar, a long-running project going back to the mid-90s. He's just put out his 13th album as Destroyer. It's called Labyrinthitis.

And I'll just say at the top that I think that this is my favorite Destroyer record since Caput. Although I do like Poison Season quite a bit. But this is a record I like quite a bit. I wrote about this album last week. I mentioned in the previous episode that I did a big interview with Dan Behar that ran on Uprocks. You can still go see it. If you want to hear the record, then read the interview. So I feel like I've said my piece about this.

I'm curious, Ian, what do you think about this album? I have a feeling. I know where you're going to go on this. And you might be disagreeing with me a little bit. But I want to hear you out. How do you feel about the 13th Destroyer record, Labrothitis? So Destroyer, like, particularly, like, I was, like, prepared. I was tensing up for you to say, like, this is my favorite Destroyer album ever.

And. Well, no, I never. No, I wouldn't say that. I would say either, what could put it would be in that conversation, Ruby's. I'm a big fan of Street Hawk, a seduction. And I'll get to this when I talk. I mean, I feel like he's had a wide-ranging career, many different phases, and that's part of what I really love about him.

Yeah, I think with me, with Destroyer is, like, I'm just glad that I was able to experience this band in a more formative time in my life, because in a lot of ways, and I think you're alluding to this, like, destroyer's, like, most prominent quality. with the hyper-literary surrealist lyrics. And particularly since Caput happened, like, kind of going more towards, like, synthi, like, sophisticated pop music. Like, this is stuff that, like, by and large, I feel, like, reflexively against. And that being said, I love Rubies.

I love Caput. I think both of them happened to come out in times where I was, like, really emotional, like, I could project an emotional mind state onto it. Like they came out like during my last year in like grad school and like last year I was still drinking. And so very decadent times, which I think fit into Dan Bayhar's like kind of image as being this not like a hedonist, but like kind of a decadent like lyricist and like decadent music. But you know, ever since Caput, I found myself a little left cold by Destroyer's music.

Like I know that you're going to take issue with like Destroyer doing Destroyer because like he's done so many different things like musically. But I think it's fair to say that like you can write a destroyer like a parody destroyer lyric and people will know exactly who you're talking about. I do think that this is the album that engaged me the most since Caput. Like I thought, I don't remember a thing about Poison season. Ken had a couple of good songs. The one from 2020 had a few songs that I enjoyed. But like that is just in the pre-COVID memory hole. for me. And, you know, with this one, some of the songs, like, explicitly remind me of kaput.

But it's just like, I enjoy it. I appreciate it. And I don't think about it when I'm done listening to it because I just have so much trouble, like getting beyond, oh, Dan's doing his thing. It's clever. There's a song called Tintoretto. It's You, which is, like, the most destroyer. a song title imaginable.

He does like a rap, which is like very destroyer in its own way. And I appreciate it. I do think that it is something that's hard for me to really be mad about because, you know, it's not like, it's not central to the narrative. Like, Destroyer's going to do Destroyer and it's not like the arc of 2022 is not going to be bent by what he does or does not do. Yeah, you know, the Destroyer being Destroyer thing, which I've seen other people, people comment on, in reference of this record and maybe even a few of the other more recent

records that it's like, well, he's living in this insular world and it doesn't really impact anything outside of it. I mean, I would say that any artist that's around for as long as he has is going to have an element of that. And I don't even think that's a bad thing. I think if you have a distinctive style, so distinctive that, as you said, you could write a parody lyric of of a Destroyer song, I actually think that speaks to having a voice that is uniquely your own. There's a lot of bands that you couldn't parody

because people wouldn't know who you were talking about because they just sound like a bunch of other people. Destroyer is very specific to this world, and I think that's a strength of his music. I will say that I think that the people probably most likely to care about a record like this are those people like me, I guess, who are invested in his career, the people who have followed him for a long time and are interested

in this record, not just as a record itself, but as to how that record fits in the overall arc of what he's done. And for me, again, you know, I engage with him in a similar way to other, I guess, legacy singer-songwriters that you could mention that he's been influenced by, you know, Bob Dylan, Ben Morrison, Joni Mitchell, other artists who have had a similar arc where you look at their career and it's like, oh, this was this phase here, or then they moved on to this. And it is interesting with Behar. I feel like a lot of people don't remember that he used to make like bar band type of music.

Like 90s real super low-fi shit. Well, and even as you move into the 2000s records like Street Hawk and this night and probably culminating with Ruby's, I mean, those albums aren't all that different from like a hold steady record to me. I mean, especially Street Hawk, he's making. a lot of references to classic rock history on that record, whether it's lyrical or, you know, you know,

or if it's sort of having a riff that sounds a little bit like all the young dudes, you know, like mop the hoopoeuv. Ruby's had a lot of like self, like, like it, like spoke directly to music critics, like,

by name. So, yeah. So I feel like, you know, as far as him being clever, I mean, that might have been more of that era.

I feel like the last 10 years have, he hasn't really done that as much. It is more, I think, as you said, this sort of evocative synth type thing, very alluring and I think also very emotional. I mean, this record in particular, I think one thing I really like about it is, is how upbeat it is. The previous record have we met, I mean, when I interviewed Behar, he said that the intention with that record was just to make like a depressing downbeat record, basically, and it was interesting how it came out like right before COVID came down. It ended up being a COVID record made before COVID.

Whereas this album was made during COVID, but it seems to have a more sort of outgoing personality to it. You know, he said in my interview that he wanted to make a techno record, which I don't know to what degree how serious he was about that, but there is a sense of forward momentum with this album. I think it is one of the catchier albums that he's made. I also think that if you are new to Destroyer, that this album actually does offer maybe more of a way in

than some of his other records. It's because I think it's more melodic and... It's probably the only Destroyer record I would describe as danceable. Yeah. I don't think he's made... You know, and I think in that respect, it's different from Caput.

Caput is more of like a laid-back mood record. I think this is a little more in your face. So, yeah, again, I understand what you're saying. I think if you don't... no Destroyer, I think this could be a good way in. Otherwise, check out those 2000 era records if you're not so much into the synth thing because he really was

making much different music back then. Yeah, I respect what he does and also it's just like, okay, like, Destroyer's gonna destroyer. I'll probably make the same exact like Simpsons joke about it every two years and you know, everyone gets what they want.

Well, it's interesting here because we're gonna now talk about the Oso Oso record, sore thumb. And of course, Osso is a, I guess you would describe them as an emo band, but I would, they seem to me more to be a band that makes revival 90s alternative rock. I mean, to me, that's really the vein that they're working in. They came to prominence in 2018 with this album called a Unahan Mix tape.

Basking in the Glow came after that. I think that was 2019. That was 19. Actually, like Unahan Mix tape initially came. out in like January, like January of 2017 and it was reissued. Like he dropped that album because like no labels would sign him. And this was like January 3rd. It was like really early in the year.

And then it started to get like some word of mouth buzz. And they signed a triple crown who put out Basking in the Glow and now the new one. Yeah. And did you write about Basking in the Globe? I did. I wrote like I wrote about Basking in the Globe. I wrote about you and Han mixtape. And I did an interview with.

with Jade, the front person for this band, but haven't reviewed the record, which, you know, is always an interesting state to be in where it's like, yeah, I'm going to do the interview, but not the review, you know? And Oso Oso has really risen to prominence as not just a popular favorite, and I guess we'll still call them an emo band. Yeah. But also as a critical favorite, this new record sort of thumb got a best new music from Pitchfork.

I think it's their first best new music. No, it is their second. Basking and the glow got one. Basking in the glow was the first emo record that got Best New Music. I remember that day on Twitter. It was like similar to when the Eagles won the Super Bowl, just a long-suffering fan base, just partying in the streets. So now, Oso Oso, first band to do it twice.

You are now in Twin Shadow, Wild Nothing territory, baby. So officially a critical favorite. I think we can call Oso-O-O-So that. I think they're a limited critical favorite. favorite though. Like I think that they're a band that like, like, I don't think you'll read about them in like, say, Rolling Stone or the New York Times or NPR. Like, it's a very limited critical favorite. Right. Well, I'm going to turn around your destroyer comment on you with Oso Oso, because to me, Sore Thumb is Oso Oso doing Oso Oso and I don't mean that as a knock necessarily, but I will say with this band that Unahunahunus mixtape was a record I really loved. I wrote about that record. I interviewed Jade for that album.

I think I interviewed him before it was reissued, like when it was still just a self-released record. And my view, basking the glow and now sore thumb, are basically just slicker reiterations of Unahan mixtape, which to me is not an improvement. Like, I feel like the records get better polished and better production values, but they're not as good as that record.

That, to me, is still their peak. and I have to say with this band, I'm a little surprised that they've been singled out just because there's a lot of bands who do what they do. And I think also also does it better. Again, this revival

sort of 90s alt rock thing. I think they do it better than most people who do this. But to me, they're a nice band, not a great band. And I don't see this record being outstanding

in any particular way. it's really good for what it is. But again, I feel like they peaked with that one record. And to me, that's still, like, maybe the one record that I need from this band. Because I'm not really seeing them expand

the formula at all. Am I wrong on that? Like, short answer? I think so. I'm just very surprised that you put it at, like, that they've gotten progressively slicker because, you know, this album, the story behind it, is that Jade made

went up to the studio in Queens with the Unahom producer with his cousin Tav, and they laid out a bunch of demos with the intention of going back to the record and working on it, and then his cousin Tav died. And then he decided, you know what, we're just putting this out. We're not reworking it. We're going to mix and master it. But to me, it's like actually way more like raw and off the cuff than basking in the glow, which, you know, as you said, is much more slicker. To me, that is just like a like almost like a bleed American type record where it is so slick

and so polished but like every song is a banger this one is it more interesting to me because you know like you've mentioned like that they are kind of a 90s alt rock band but like when I think of like 90s alt rock in the current day I just think of bands who are like yeah we sound like Varouca Salt and third eye blind it's like a very

or like we sound like hum there's i think also also pulls from lesser uh considered parts of that which is to say there's like a song that they they pull from cake a little bit but also like the shins in the early 2000s and maybe even a little like early paramour um or Tokyo police club so they put together they pull from like for lack of a better term uh less cool influences which I think still places them in the emo realm. They don't sound like, say, like soccer mommy who does like 90s alt rock. Like that sounds to me very polished, very, you know, considered very like, it almost sounds like major label stuff.

Now, like, and I also think that this record has more of an emotional core to it than the past ones, which are more like maybe based on fiction or like conceptual things. Like this is just about like, you know, it's about to me. the friendship of the two guys and just kind of like I thought it was interesting in the pitchfork review compared it to Revolver because it does have that elephant six kind of feel in a way where it's just trying out some things you know recording bong rips kind of doing a little bit of a Brit pop sort of thing it's not my favorite Oso Oso album and yet I think it's awesome that a record like this can still be critically acclaimed and be maybe his third best album because hey that's just kind of proof that

maybe bands like also also can be embraced you know like it's they aren't I do think that there are bands that do more inventive and progressive things within the emo realm uh that have not been embraced to the same degree and you know that makes me a little bummed out uh but hey I mean if someone's like if someone's got to be the the token emo band that critics embrace you know I'm glad it's them well I mean there's been other I mean come on there's been other bands from this scene in the last few years I feel like if if like say pitchfork I don't want to fix it on them too much but I feel like if they're going to give a best new music to a rock band it's probably going to be an emo punk type band it's not going to you know unless you know outside

of like an indie like legacy act like if they're going to like go outside the usual purview, like this is where they normally go. So, I mean, that's how I say, because there's like a lot of other kinds of bands that don't get any shine at all. I think, so I think it's more likely, not saying that like they're going crazy

for every up-and-coming emo band, but I think if they are going to go outside the usual purview, I think it's more likely to go in this direction. I mean, again, also, also, again, I think, they're a good band. I love Unahun, Mixed tape. I just feel like,

you know, again, to go, like you were saying, you could write a parody of a Destroyer song. I don't, could you do that for Oso Oso? To me, they seem like a, to me they seem like a derivative band. Like that, I think does that sound of music well, but I don't know. I just, I have trouble making the next leap to them being something that feels substantial. Also, you know, there are four albums in, not 13. So, you know, maybe, maybe as they move along, it'll be similar to like the shin. because you could make like a song that sounds like the shins,

but, or, you know, a band of that, band of that ilk. But, you know, what I'm wondering really about with them is like,

okay, maybe it's not like, the most, you know, like innovative, distinctive stuff. But, you know,

there's still room for bands like that. And I'm just wondering, like, how popular are, like, are this band? Like, how come,

I just want to see them, like, in the small font of Lollapalooza or, or like Beal Street in the same way that like, you know, a, I don't know, like a B or C list band on like, you know, dead oceans would be. Like they're about to go on tour opening for the Menzinger's, which, you know, not a bad thing to do. They have a very loyal fan base. But yeah, like, like does all of this, you know, as we talk about like critical acclaim to that degree, has it done much for them?

I don't know. I can't. It depends on like what you're. ceiling is. I think that for the kind of band that they are, they seem like one of the most popular bands in their particular niche, you know? But, you know, can they break out of that? I don't know. I mean, again, I think Jade, how do you pronounce his last name? I'm not even going to try. L. I don't know. Jade L. I guess I'd like to see him, I mean, do you think he'll ever do like the level up record like where he's working with i don't i'm trying to think of like a produce

like jo chichorello or something i mean like because you would think like you know signed to like triple crann and working with mike supone who did like you know all like uh the devil and god raging inside me uh that is kind of a level up but like yeah i that's the thing like i want to see him i want to see you know like uh like one of those fake indie labels that within a major label umbrella sign him and have him work with you Yeah, like a Joe Chickerelli or something like that. Like, even if the record sucks, you know, I want to see that. Like, I want to see the record where he signs the, like, Mom and Pop or Loma Vista.

You know, like, what are those labels? I mean, it doesn't seem outside the room of possibility. I mean, because, again, he is a good pop rock songwriter. I could see him writing hits that a bigger audience would be into. So I don't know. But maybe he's not interested in that. Maybe he's not. That's a thing.

I mean, this guy lives in Dallas, Pennsylvania and like doesn't have a car. You know, every one, and when I've talked to him myself, it's like he's very much not of the hype. He hates the dog and pony show of record releases, which is why this was probably a surprise release to begin with. Dallas, Pennsylvania, that's an Indycast city right there. Yeah, like, Wilkes Barra is the biggest, the biggest city to that, near that. All right, we've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, want you to go first? Oh my God.

So we got to do rapid fire here because there are so many records that I am like literally into. This is not just like, oh, I got to think of something I kind of like that no one else is talking about for Recommendation Corner. Just today we've got the new Kara Kara record coming out, which I'm a huge fan of. Really good record. Yeah. Proper, which is a very interesting band, who I've written about in the past, their new record is out. Check that one out. Carly Cosgrove.

they were a favorite of the quarantine emo nights back in 2020 and now they're out with an album finally called See You in Chemistry. Big fan of that. Also, got to give a shout to Soul Glows Diaspora Problems. That's a record I'm going to be writing about. And to me, that is like a hardcore milestone. I don't think it's going to be like turnstile level like blowing up. But I think it also might be maybe like a more important record as far as like what.

but it signifies politically and culturally. I'm so stoked for people to hear all those records. There is not a shortage of good shit out there right now. So for my album this week, I was planning on talking about one of my favorite albums of the year, which is Boat Songs by the great singer-songwriter M.J. Lenderman. But apparently this album, it was supposed to come out today originally, and then it got bumped to April, so I'll have to hype it at that time.

For now, I want to talk about the band that, Lenderman is in, which is Wednesday, which is this really great North Carolina band. I think I've talked about them on the show before. They're described as a country shoegaze band, which doesn't really make any sense on paper, but I swear it really translates like when you listen to the band. Of course, they put out a record last year called Twin Plagues, which I was a little late on, and now I think I'm trying to compensate by hyping them all the time. But I really want to talk about a covers record that they put out earlier this month. It's called Mowing the leaves instead of piling them up. And this really is one of my favorite albums of the year.

And it really speaks to the range of influences that this band has. They cover drive-by truckers. They cover smashing pumpkins from the Adore era. But they also delve into honky-ton classics by people like Roger Miller and Gary Stewart. It's all filtered through this band's very unique sensibility, heavy guitars, lo-fi vocal. a really sort of evocative, high and lonesome type sound. I also have to say, too, that their cover of this song I love, I Am the Cosmos by Chris Bell of Big Star, their cover of that is one of my favorite versions

of that song that I've ever heard. So I have to wait to hype MJ Lenderman. I will do that next month, but for now, check out this Wednesday record, mowing down the leaves instead of piling them up. I think you'll really enjoy it. Especially if you're into what I am into, you will like this record.

That about does it for a little. this episode of Indycast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie mixtape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.