Indiecast - Has 2026 Been A Good Year For Music? Plus: New Albums by Death Cab For Cutie, Modest Mouse, and Deer Tick

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

This week's conversation begins with Steven telling a story about a very mean email he got from a publicist this week (2:00), followed by Ian talking about his trip to an historic studio down south (9:30). After that, they do an update of the fantasy albums draft (17:56) before assessing the state of music in 2026 so far, ahead of revealing their mid-year lists next week (23:09). Then they run down the week's new releases, including new releases by Modest Mouse, Converge, Deer Tick and Lizzo (31:05). They also discuss the new record by Death Cab for Cutie (41:06). In Recommendation Corner, Ian recommends Greg Mendez and Steven recommends Futurebirds (50:48). See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indicast is presented by Amazon Music. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast on the show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we talk about Death Cab for Cutie and new albums from Modest Mouse, Deer Tick, and Widow Speak. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He's going to keep me from offending any publicist this week. Ian Cohen, Ian, Ian, how are you?

So in the world of sober living, sometimes they'll have people who, graduated from those programs, become recovery coaches in the house. And that's what I'm feeling like right now. It's, you know, it's, it's, I never would have thought, uh, that you're the good cop. I know. You're the good cop now. I, who would have thought if you looked at our careers, your background at pitchfork, you were known as the hammer. Yeah. At pitchfork in the 2010s. Now you're the good cop. You're, you're, you're, you're the Danny Glover. And I'm the Mel Gibson. or another... Yeah, maybe you want a rich.

Well, the Roger Burthaw and the, I can't remember Bill Gifts's character's name and Lethal Weapon. Do you know that? Riggs, Riggs, Riggs, Martin Riggs, that's it. Yes. Riggs. Another analogy I thought of was back in the 2010s

when Bill Simmons and Jailen Rose were on NBA countdown on ESPN, Jalen Rose had this recurring bit where he would say, don't get fired, Bill. Right before Bill would say something, maybe controversially say, don't get fired, Bill. Like, he would be there to prevent Bill from saying something that would get him fired. Of course, the irony is that Bill eventually did get fired by ESPN, which was the best thing that ever happened to him.

I mean, he's been doing fantastic ever since then. But this week, and you know this, Ian, but our listeners don't. I got the meanest email of my career, my professional. career. The media's email I've ever gotten from a publicist. And I've been doing this now for 26 years, Ian, in media. I've worked daily newspapers. I've worked for all weeklies. I've worked for websites. I'm now working in the post website world that we're in now. I've done a lot of different things. I've gotten a lot of emails. I've interacted with publicists many times, thousands of times. I would say 99% of them have been really neither positive nor negative, just fine, you know, transactional.

They have a job to do. I have a job to do. Very unmemorable. Some publicists I've gotten into over the years just because I've worked with them for a long time. And sometimes, you know, they get mad at you because you say something or you write something about their client that they don't like. Normally they don't say anything, but sometimes they'll say something and express their disfet. dissatisfaction, or they might tell your boss. That's happened to me.

Yes. I'm sure it's happened to you. Definitely happened to you. Half of Ryan Shriver's upcoming book is going to be about him talking certain publicists off the ledge between the years 2008 and 2012. And, you know, I'm bringing this up because I think for the listeners at home here, you know, they always like to peek behind the curtain. They want to know how these things go.

And, you know, these are all human beings. We're all interacting. And there is sometimes, if you, you know, you write a negative review or you say something jokingly on a podcast that gets taken the wrong way. But I got an email this week from a publicist who he represents a client that I've written about recently, and we've talked about on this show recently, not favorably. But the publicist wasn't mad about that. They were mad about something else I wrote, or so they said.

It reminded me of, did you watch The Sopranos? Yeah, of course. I'm a 46-year-old man. Of course you did. Well, you know, like, how there were, sometimes, like, Tony would be mad at his mom. Yes. And he didn't want to take it on his mom, so he would, like, beat up the bartender at the Bada Bing with, like, the phone receiver. Yeah.

You know, and it was like, yeah, he's technically beating on the bouncer guy, but he's really mad at his mom. And I think that that was what was happening here. I think this person was mad about the thing I had written or said about their client. Yeah. There's also like a Jerry Tarkini, in quote. The, you know, the late legendary UNLV coach who said the NCAA was so mad at Kentucky. They gave Cleveland State two more years of probation. It's a very similar thing.

Yeah. So anyway, this person sent a really harsh email laying into me. And you and I talked about it. I showed it to you. just to verify that it was real. I'm like, am I imagining this? This is like really hardcore. And I wanted to read the email on the air just because I thought it was funny.

And also, again, just for the sake of our listeners at home, but you talked me out of it. I think reasonably. Yeah. Because you were like, hey, this could have negative repercussions down the road. What if we want to get a promo stream of an album that this person represents? This could be bad news, I think, was your argument. So we're not going to do that. Although I was thinking, you know, because we're doing all these bonus episodes lately.

We actually have a bonus episode up this week that's on Amazon Music exclusively. It's an Indycast Hall of Fame episode. You and I each pick two records that we wanted to put in the Indycast Hall of Fame, which if you listen to the show, you know what that is. It's basically just records that we love that we feel like I'm maybe underappreciated, right? Is that how you sum it up? Yeah, it's somewhere, it's not quite remembering some guys, and it's also not underscoring, like, the obvious. These are ones that I think are pretty formative in terms of setting up what IndyCass is all about, you know? Like, there's, there, there's nothing that's going to be, like, really out of left field.

But, yeah, I think, and I think with all, like, with all of them, like, I think Steve's might be a little more surprising, a little more under the radar, whereas mine are, typically taken from what you would call peak hipster, you know, like the urban outfitters era. One of my albums is actually fairly well known in indie circles maybe. Yeah. But I think is maybe not talked about as much as it should be. I think as an influential record. I think it's much more influential than it gets credit for. Yeah, you went for, were they both from the 2010s?

They were 2009 specifically. So, yeah, these were like under the, like under the radar only insofar as that they weren't like Merry Weather Post pavilion or dirty projectors. So, and both of my albums are from the 90s. So a wide reach. We also have another bonus episode coming up next week. I think it's going to go up, which we'll talk about in a minute because it involves an interview that you did Ian in person with an indie rock luminary. first time in Indycast's history that we've done an interview with something. Yeah, yeah, it's, I'm glad to do it.

And we'll talk about who it is, but I can assure you this person has done no other press for this album cycle. None of that matter. This is the one that people are waiting for. Yeah, they've talked to other people, but this is with Ian Cohen. Exactly. The leading emo expert in modern indie rock discourse. Yeah, plus you get to hear me doing the intro of IndyCats. for the first time in six years.

So that's exclusive content as well. Exactly. So it's like the Frost Nixon of Emo, basically, is going to be coming up on. So, you know, we have this partnership with Amazon. And, you know, we've been doing the show as normal since we've come back in April. But part of it is we're going to occasionally do these bonus episodes that are exclusive to the Amazon music site. If you just want the regular show, it's going to be delivered to you as normal.

but if you want some extra content and you want to check out Amazon music, you can hear these bonus episodes. We're going to be doing, I think, Indycast Hall of Fame episodes on a monthly basis over there. And then we're going to be doing some other interviews as the year unfolds. So that's really exciting. But I was thinking that maybe another bonus episode we can do is you and I talking about mean things that publicists have said to us because they were angry about something we wrote or said. Maybe that could be, we've always talked about indie cast after dark.

Yeah. Maybe that can be another bonus thing that we can do for our listeners. Yeah, I guarantee if we do that, the entire audience will be other publicists and people within the realm. Like they just like, oh, we just got to make sure it's not us where they're talking about. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I think they would know who they are. They know, the angry ones know who they are. But anyway, we're not going to do that thing I said. I wanted to do, at least not this week, maybe in the future.

Who knows? But let's talk about something more wholesome. Like, you went down south this week. Before you did the big interview this week with the Indy Rock Luminary that we'll talk about in a minute. You went to like, were you in Alabama? I was in Alabama. So my in-laws now live in Athens, Alabama, which there's a huge Brittany Howard mural there. I guess Alabama Shake still exist. But yeah, that's where Britney Howard is from. Athens, Alabama also plays a major role in a new season of 90-day fiancé, if you happen to be watching that. But yeah, it was an, my in-laws live there, and it was an experience of both intentional and unintentional music, which is to say that when you fly into the Nashville airport, and I'm sure you've been there, you see like, oh, hey, Blake Shelton has a barbecue restaurant, or you're driving past

the Nissan stadium where the Titans play, and you see these massive billboards with guys with names like Tucker Wetmore, and you're like, that can't be real. I got to ask you, Steve, because we joke about how there are only so many moves you have left once you hit 40 years old in the music writing game. Have you ever considered getting deep into like bro country, like the Tucker Wetmore's of the world? I feel like that's kind of a final boss

of optimism. Yeah. Have you ever consider dabbling? Well, you know, I don't think it's ever a good idea to get into a genre as a stunt or as a way to get an audience. So if I were to write about that, it would have to come from a genuine place

of appreciation. I will say that like mainstream country, even more than, say, a Zach Bryan, because I've written a lot about Zach Brian in the last three or four years, and he's a huge star. But, you know, the Chet Whitmore's of the world, or, you know, whoever else it might be. I do appreciate that kind of music this time of the year. You know, coming into June, July, August, you know, my family, we used to do this thing every summer where we would rent a pontoon boat. at some point. Hell yeah.

We haven't done that for the last few summers. We were actually talking about the other day about doing it again this summer. But if you're on a pontoon boat, you know, that is the kind of music that you want to listen to. Like it goes down very, very well in that environment. There's actually this guy, Zach Top. I don't know if you've listened to him. Yeah, yeah. I've seen the name Zach Top.

And that's, yeah, it's strange. Like walking through Nashville, you get the sense that even guys like Zach Top and Charlie Crockett are like geese in comparison to your Tucker Wetmore's, you know? Oh yeah. Well, and I would say they are, like, Zach Topp is definitely more of, I don't know if he's having chart hits necessarily. He's, I don't want to call him like the indie rock of country, but he is someone that I think draws in people like me.

Like I was a fan of his last record. I put it on my year end list. It's called Ain't It In for My Heart. health and he's definitely a like a 90 style country revivalist in that you know he his records kind of sound like Alan Jackson and George straight stuff like that which is stuff I appreciate more than you know the cliche I'm driving a truck and I'm like college game day barstool Nashville type right I got I'm in love with a girl and cut off jeans like that kind of stuff except when I'm on a pontoon boat.

If you put me on a pontoon boat and you queue up some bro country, I'm going to start nodding my head and getting into it. But in any other context, I think it's a little bit of a rougher go. Yeah. And once I did that, I went to, you know, Athens is about an hour away from Muscle Shoals. And we did the studio tour. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, I would recommend.

I'd recommend it. Yeah, I'd recommend it. there's like so many studios in that part of the country um but yeah i did uh the uh the the the muscle shoal studio is still pretty much intact and you get to uh stand in the bathroom where keith richards finished off riding wild horses uh you get the the vocal boost intact you know i'm trying to get that swampy soul soulful southern tone to indycast but the i think the thing that you'll appreciate the most about it is that while a lot of the tour focuses on you know like Skinner or the staple singers or what have you they get not as a spoiler i mean i think

you probably already know this but they get to this part where they talk about the biggest hit ever spawn from muscle shoal studio uh and you're thinking oh it's like maybe like i'll take you there or respect or no it's actually old time rock and roll like bob seger like this is the house that seager built uh in a lot of ways because those were the biggest hits to come out of thing Yeah, Main Street and Fire Lake. Catmandu, yeah. Yeah, all those songs. And the great David Hood bass player and father of Pattersonhood.

They did not mention that in the tour. At the end, I'm like, the guy was wearing a Jason Isbell shirt, and they did not mention that David Hood's son is Patterson Hood. Well, yeah, I mean, I was going to say he's a bass player. He plays on all those songs. So you played on all the Seeger songs. He plays on I'll take you there. He plays on Coda Chrome by Paul Simons,

was recorded there. All these hits, and I've only seen pictures of it. It's also, have you seen Gimme Shelter, the Rolling Stones documentary? I don't think I have. No.

It's known as the Ultimat movie, but before they get to Ultimut, they show the stones at Muscle Shoals doing wild horses. And so most of what I know about Muscle Shoals is from that movie. Yeah, and they did so illegally because you can't, you couldn't tour and record. at the same time if you were from outside of the United States. So there's no credit on the initial pressing

of sticky fingers that they recorded there. So yeah, it's really cool stuff. I think you would love it. I think you would appreciate how, where they have like all the vinyl covers you see, you know, the classics, but also some of the most badass Wilson Pickett album covers that you could ever imagine.

But also like Paul Anka, Yeah, it's a cool thing. If you ever happen to find yourself there, it's about like an hour and a half or so I think, well, I don't know how far it is from Nashville, but yeah, we were about an hour and a half. We were about an hour away in Athens, which is kind of like Northern Alabama, Huntsville type area.

That's awesome. Yeah. But yeah, I was really, I was really thinking, man, like I just want to like turn on the, we didn't do a lot of driving, but like, man, I want to turn on the radio, just to see what's what, you know, be a captive audience. But instead of listen to my morning jacket.

Because I would love to go to Alabama and Mississippi because of all the musical history that is in those states. And I just don't have any reason to go. It would have to be specifically for that. And it would probably have to be by myself because I don't know if I could convince my wife, hey, do you want to go to Clarksdale in Mississippi? Because that would be awesome. I would love to go. I don't know how much

like blues lore is still visible there You could go to Oxford, Mississippi for Sweet Tea recording studio where you know do a pilgrimage to see the place where Waves King of the Beach was recorded Yeah I think that's where animal

I think that's where Animal Collective recorded a couple albums there as well Yeah look at this list You got County Crows Cracker It's owned by Dennis Herring Who uh Modus Mouse head PE jars of clay.

Yeah, Oxford rules. I love that city. I got invited to do a reading there once, and I couldn't make it work, but I don't know. If anyone from Oxford is listening, sometimes this works if I put this out in the universe. Yeah.

I have a book coming out in September. If you want me to come down, we can figure it out. I'd love to go to Oxford. Do the Faulkner thing, for real. Seems cool. Let's do a fantasy album draft update. We haven't done this for a few weeks,

and we're actually getting down to, like, most of our albums have come out. already. I had a couple albums just come out recently. The new Ice Age album came out, and that album's doing great with critics. It's gotten 87 on Metacritic. That's the highest score on my team right now. I remember taking a little bit of a flyer with them at the beginning of the draft. I think my concern was, are there enough outlets left to review albums? and just thinking, well, Pitchfork loves Ice Age historically, although not as much as other outlets this time.

Yeah, they're holding up the bottom. It's like, it's an exhilarating album, 7.8. It's like, man, this is, we'll turn the page talking about Bob Seeger, man. Like, we are in a new era. The first non-best new music for MSH album from Pitchfork. Yeah, and ironically, it's the one where like all the other critics, like, actually think it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Who knew? Who knew?

Paul McCartney, his recent record, The Boys of Dungeon Lane, that has an 85. I like that record. I think it's getting a little overrated because Paul is 83 and he's writing about his past in a very sentimental way. And he's getting a little bit of the, you know, Dr. Dre on the farewell tour. type treatment from people.

That's an old reference. I don't know if... Do you remember the Dr. J. farewell tour? That's like a fixture of my youth. I thought you said Dr. Dre. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. No, no, Dr. Julius Irving. Yeah, yeah.

He had a big farewell tour in the 80s because he announced at the beginning of the season that he was retiring. So like in every town he went to, they... Well, I think they did that for Kobe as well. Yeah, that's true. I guess it's a more relevant reference

the Dr. J. Dr. J. It does sound like Dr. Dre when I'm saying Dr. J. I'm putting like an R.E in there for some reason. I don't know why. Anyway, that album is in 85. Kurt Vial was on my list. He has an 82.

Happy with that. And then I have Freco at 79. And then I'm waiting on Olivier Rodrigo, her album coming out next week. I feel really good about this. Yeah, we're going to talk about why, but I feel as if that's like, Yeah, I'm not saying like Brett's summer potential, but it's up there. Well, and we'll talk about this in a minute, but I mean, this has been a bereft year for big time albums.

I feel like there is, you know, there hasn't been a lot of, you know, blockbuster pop records or really kind of big breakout indie releases. So Olivia Rodriguez is coming into a pretty maybe easy field here, but we'll see how good they'll be. record is. I'm looking at your scores. Yours is fairly comparable to mine, but we haven't added up the scores, but you're up by seven. I'm up by seven, okay. Yeah, I need Tucker Zimmerman to like do, I don't know, to pimp a butterfly type numbers. Well, run down your team here. What do you got in? So I got all this Harding with an 87, American football and kneecap got 82s. Jesse Ware, man that is that is a massive bust 75 uh poor scouting on my behalf never should have pulled the trigger on that one but you know here i am i got this sunk cost and i need tucker zimmerman who you know maybe

they'll want up paul mccartney in that like you were saying it's kind of a preemptive farewell tour for paul mccartney but tucker zimmerman passed away so this is a posth of this album yeah that's all i got but uh olivia rodrigo I was hearing that when I was walking around East Nashville. By the way, my favorite part of being in East Nashville, which is kind of the hit part, like, you know, what they would call the Brooklyn of Nashville. In a span of five minutes, I was walking past two coffee shops.

I heard one that was playing geese and another that was playing Cameron Winter solo. Wow. And when I went to Turkey and the Wolf, it was like straight up the Wednesday extended universe. I heard Frog. I heard, this is Lorelai. I heard a couple Wednesday in MJ Lenderman songs.

Yeah, East Nashville definitely lived up to its wrath. So you have all this hearting. She's doing the best for you right now. Is that the most acclaimed indie record of the first half of the year? I guess. I feel like it's among them. I mean, this is going to segue, I guess, into our next segment. Because this is something I brought up in a text to you when we were figuring out what we wanted to talk about this week.

Because next week we're going to be doing our mid-year. year lists. And I'm going to be writing about it on my substack as well. That'll be a longer, more extensive list. I'm guessing we'll probably do like top fives, maybe next week, something like that. But I want to ask for your thoughts on the year and music overall because I'll say for me, if I look at my list, the list I'm putting together of my favorite albums so far, I really like my list, especially the albums I would say are in the top of the top of the

top five, maybe even top 10, I think are really good. And I've been listening to them a lot. And they're great records and they're by up-and-coming bands. In some cases, it's like debuts. Other cases, it's maybe like the first or, it's like the second or third album. But all up-and-coming people, all artists that are like easy to cheer for that, like, I want to pull for that I even want to stump for in print or on this show. but there's not really any like big time albums you know there's not any big pop record or even like

the indie record that gets talked about a lot and is clearly a consensus favorite like an mj lendersman or a wednesday or a cameron winner or a geese or whatever and aldous harding i guess is the closest thing to that i mean there's slater i've seen that record i think that was number one on the Stereo gun list. Yeah. The Kevin Morby album, I've seen that pretty high up. You know, that's in the conversation. There's some other ones.

Maybe Wendy Eisenberg. Like, Wendy Eisenberg currently has the highest score of the year. And that's an album. That is one of the relative breakouts on my own list. Most of the records on my list, I feel like haven't been talked about a ton or even reviewed by the big places. But Eisenberg is up there. even that is, I think, pretty low-key. I mean, that's not certainly like a Cameron Winter

level phenomenon. It reminds me a little of, in sports, the discourse about dynasties and how people always say they hate dynasties, but then when there's not a dynasty, it feels like the ratings for games aren't as high. I think there's something similar in music conversation where it gets boring looking at these lists and seeing the same albums all the time. But when there isn't at least some commonality, it does feel a little disjointed and maybe even minor a little bit, even when the artists themselves, you know, the records themselves might be great. But when you don't have those touchstones, I think there's maybe something missing there. And I guess as a sub question of that, is that really a thing about music or something?

Is that just more about media right now? Because even social media now, especially in critical circles, feel so decentralized. You know, you got people, you got blue sky, you got Twitter, you even got people on threads. Sickos, true sickos, man. I don't know how much time you're spending on threads. The threads people are serious. You know, if you're into threads, you are seriously into threads. But you've got all these different camps.

You've got websites that are breaking down. down it feels like and increasingly people are maybe doing their own substack so you got your own walled garden there so maybe that has something to do with it as well but anyway this is a rambling question to you Ian but do you get a sense of what I'm talking about here do you do you feel the same way and what are your thoughts I guess just looking at the music year generally so far yeah I joke to you that when I started seeing some of the half year list coming out it was like that Onion article that pops into my head, a sort of attractive girl half-heartedly hit on. And that's the energy I'm getting from 20, 26 so far, because, you know, like Slater and Jean de Portrine,

I guess, like, you know, all this Harding, like, it's getting great reviews, but are like people stoked about it. I don't know. I mean, there was that neurosis album that all the metal heads were excited about, but that's like an, it's not like sunbather where it's at least a new band. The number four album on Metacritic this year is the Black Crows, who just got boot off stage. Really?

That album has been that well reviewed? Yeah. I know you're even not so hot on it. But yeah, I mean, I'm trying to, like, one thing I always have to tell myself, you know, I'm writing a book right now. I'm like very engaged in that. I'm like working in a different position at work through a promotion there. So I'm not like the guy who's going to have the best sense of what's really

happening in the narrative. I have to believe that there are people who are 27 years old right now for that. For them, this is their 2005. I have to believe it if you're one of those people and can tell me like, hey, underscores and grace eyes, like two of the albums that I really love, you know, are doing, are doing those kind of numbers. Please let me know. But otherwise, it feels like a, I feel like everything is just prelude so far to Olivia

Rodrigo because like, you know, the Mitzky and Robin albums, like those would be ones that would typically be, you know, like really, really, really praise. And, you know, they were, but they also just kind of, I just haven't seen anyone talking about them. I don't know if anyone's talking about anything, really. Well, and again, I want to make a distinction here between good quality music and good quality sort of perception or conversation. Because, again, I think there's a lot of great music this year.

I'm excited to talk about it. I'm going to be writing about it. I mean, I've been writing about it all these past several months, but I'll be condensing it into one column next week, and we'll talk about it on the show. There's a lot of great albums that I think actually haven't been talked about that should be talked about. So it's not a matter of, like, a shortage of music.

It is a shortage of conversation about consolidated around certain records. And I don't think that's a matter of age, really, because, you know, you either have buzz or you don't. And I think it's discernible. And if there are young people talking about something or older people talking about something, the buzz is still discernible either way. So it's not a matter of like feeling personally excited about something. It's more of like looking out and just observing the heat check, I guess, of the world and conversation.

And that I think is what I'm not getting a read on. And when you look at some of these half-year lists that are coming out, I think that that bears that out where there's not a lot of coherence going on between one to the other. I mean, you mentioned like, and Jean de Poitrine. I think that that's one band that people have latched on to because they had that viral moment. You know, and that's one of the closest things that we've had to people having a conversation about a particular band for anything longer than like a day or two. So maybe that makes that record feel more important. because I think as a record, I don't know if that deserves to be on any year-end list,

but it feels more impactful maybe than a lot of records. I mean, really, I mean, the band that was talked about the most this year in the first half of the year was probably geese because of the whole, you know, chaotic good thing. It reminds me of like when, you know, I always like to bring up when Virginia won the national championship in basketball. It's like they were technically the champions for two years straight because they won it in 2019 and then there was COVID so nobody won. That's kind of what's happening with getting killed. It's like the kind of default album of the year, two years running. Yeah. So anyway, excited to talk

about records I'm into because there is a lot of great music going on. Maybe it's not being highlighted as much as it should be, but you know, that's our job and we'll take care of that in our next episode. Let's talk about albums that are out today that you can go check out. at your record store or your streaming platform of choice. Just looking down the list here, there's a new Converge album, Hum of Hurt. I don't go deep on Converge, really.

I don't know if you have anything to say about that record. I don't go super deep on Converge. I love all that we love, we leave behind. Jane Doe is like the one that you see. A lot of people who I see around San Diego who work in restaurants and have like sleeve tattoos and are like 40,

they love Converge. to get into type of guys about it, but yeah, I like Converge. I don't go super deep on them. Had I known there was a second Converge, I might probably pick that for my fantasy draft, but yeah, it's probably going to be really good. There's a new Deer Tick album out today. It's called Coim-O-Matic. This is their first album in a while.

For whatever reason, I did not get a promo of this record. I don't think I angered that publicist. It's probably just got lost somewhere along the way, but I've listened to the singles from this record. I think there's been four of them. and I like them all. I'm actually, I might buy this record, actually. I've been really enjoying what I've been hearing.

I'm positive I like this band more than you do. Yeah, I wrote like a negative review about Dear Tick, and that's if I see the guy. If I see John, I'd probably like apologize. Like that one I like, I'm like, man, I really wish I could take it. I mean, I didn't like the record, but, man, I wrote about it in a way that was like really stupid. If you want to talk about like pissing off publicists,

I'm more likely to, like back in those days, I was probably more likely to piss off musicians. Yeah. And that's one I, you know, I would really like to do a recall on that one for sure. For those who don't know, Deer Tick, I would say a roots rock band with a heavy replacements influence. Had of their time, I would say.

Yeah, definitely. You know, not quite alt-country. But, you know, some old country may be accents to what they do. but yeah a good band and yeah I think I'm gonna pick up that record over the weekend

myself there's a new Evan Essence record sanctuary Ian are you still in the mode where you're pretending that Evan essence is a good band

or are you over there I don't think I ever really did I'm pretty sure I know you're in that new metal world though like the moment's a new metal guy like your pals with him I remember like I made a joke

about Evan essence being a sucky band and then like he ratioed me over that. I mean, come on, this band sucks. Even new metal fans, like, are you really going to stand for Evanescence? I don't know. I'm probably getting into a lot of emails about this one.

Evan Essence publicist right now is typing up a very angry, missive over this. But I don't know. That song Back to Life, that was in the Nathan Fielder show. Yeah, yeah. I like that song now because of that show. But other than that, I can't listen to this band. Yeah, I never, I never pretended with Evan Essence. Like, it's like saying, oh, you like those emo bands.

Like, like, like, what, I'm trying to think of the one from like two, like, what's one from like 2005 or whatever. It's like, yes, I like emo, but like not the starting line or whatever, you know. Yeah. Well, anyway, they have a new album out. So if you're a fan, it's out today. Lizzo is back with a new album, bitch. Yeah. Lizzo, you know, we've talked about this in the indie world where there was that period in the 2010s that feels very, I was going to say Biden.

It was pre-Biden, but you know, that resistance. Resistance era, yeah, where it just felt instantly dated. Yeah. Starting in about 2024. And Lizzo seems like, is she like the. the poison of that era. You know, like, if you're gonna, like, make an analogy to hair metal, how that seemed dated in the 90s, is Lizzo the poison or, like, the warrant of resistance core?

I mean, because I feel like there's no one, because she won, like, record of the year. Yeah, unstoppable. And then, you know, got involved with some lawsuits, made some, you want, yeah, that was someone who also, like, wrote an open letter about critics. She wasn't going to let the publicist. She, she's her, she's the, she's her own shooter for. Which I respect. I respect that. You know, yes, definitely. There was a weird thing with her, like, harassing like an Uber Eats delivery person.

Like, there was just so many unforced errors, which, you know, like, I think it's just more pronounced when you have someone whose entire brand is upon, like, you know, resistance and. Or I'm a nice person. Yeah. Like, that whole era was about, I'm a good person, so therefore I make good music. Yeah. So then when people, like when your dancers are. coming out and filing lawsuits saying that you're abusive. It hits in a different, not that that's ever acceptable, but, you know, there's a level maybe of hypocrisy. It's about as close as we got to like that, like, it's more like Chance the Rapper than, you know, which celebrated its 10th anniversary recently.

It's like, man, that is a such a specific time and place. And you might be able to look back on it with a little bit of, you know, warmth or what have you. But, yeah, I don't think it's like poison or Motley Crew, where you can still hear those songs on the radio. And I think they're in a way kind of detached from their era. So really, we're saying that they're at a higher stature, really, than Lizzo. I think so. I'm insulted.

Yeah, you're probably right, actually. There's a new Modest Mouse record. We should have probably led with that one. Probably should have. Modest Mouse record, Eraser, and a maze. I listened to the singles from this album. I did not like them at all. I mean, the first three albums, incredible.

I think Lonesome Crowder West is in the conversation of greatest indie rock album of the 90s. Obviously, the record after that, the fourth record, good people. Moon and Antarctica. Moon and Antarctica was between those two, which is my pick. That's my modest. No, that's the third record. I said the first three records. I was saying after the first three records.

Okay, got it, got it. Is the big hit. Was it good news for people like bad news? Yes. Which was, I believe, recorded at Sweet T Studios in Oxford, Mississippi. I don't love that album as much, but clearly a huge hit. You know, very important record for a lot of people. But I don't know, for me, once they got beyond that three-person lineup and they just became augmented by all these other people.

You know, Johnny Marr coming into the band later, it just lost something. I mean, Jeremiah Green. RIP, one of the great indie rock drummers of all time. You know, and I don't know. To me, when listening to like modern modest mouse, I have a hard time grasping like the specificity that used to be with this band. It feels a little like generic middle-aged indie rock.

Yeah, it just feels like, you know, like modest mouse making radio songs, which, yeah, it's a little bit, I thought the last record was actually pretty good. that had its moments for sure I'll vouch for good people who love bad news good news for people who love bad news that's like a classic end of the CD era you know you might

end of the CD era it's still thriving Ian what are you talking about? As soon as that left my mouth I'm like man also you know I also have a lot of warmth for we were dead before the ship even sank from 2007

I you know I think not wrongly couple that album with the shins, Winston the Night Away. Those two albums are in it, they are inseparable in my mind, and they're extremely 2007. If Riley, I feel like I've had like many conversations with Riley Walker about those two specific records.

But Invisible, great song, Walking to the Sea, great song. I like Dashboard. Yeah, each Modest Mouse album has a good chance of like giving me something to appreciate, but I just can't really tell where Isaac Brock's head's at. You know, like what inspires him? What moves him?

I don't know. It's a little tougher to tell. He's a great interview. He can be a little bit of a loose canon in an interview, but I've talked to him a couple times actually in the last few years. He was going into some conspiracy theory stuff last time we talked, which is a little weird, but I don't know. A singular character in indie rock history.

We could use some more of those types of eccentrics. Just moving to the rest of these quickly here. of Montreal. They have a new record out. We'll have to talk about them more in depth at some point. Because we do have to get the Death Cat for Qie here. Old Crow Medicine Show, Union Made, Red Clay Strays, grateful. They're like a pretty secretly huge country band.

I don't know if you've listened to Red Clay Strays, but. I could not. I'd probably get them confused with Old Crow Medicine Show. No, Old Crow Medicine Show is more of like a bluegrass folk type thing. Like, Oh, Brother, were Art Dow adjacent. A little bit. Yeah, I mean, they're a pretty good band, though. I like them. Red Clay Strays is more Southern rock. The kind of music you would hear on Justified. Or like the Tyler Sheridan universe now.

Yeah, exactly. And like their last record, I actually like quite a bit. Again, it's coming out in the summertime. That's good summertime music. There's a new Ben Staples record out today called Crybaby. And then Widow Speak, their new record, Roses, is out today. So I don't know if you have anything to say. I like a couple of their songs. Yeah, I like Widowsby. Don't go deep on them, but, you know, what I've heard, I've enjoyed.

All right, well, let's get to Death Cab for QD. Because they have a new album out today, which is getting, no one's really talking about this album. I'm surprised it's not getting a lot of press. Yeah, I know, man. I'm being sarcastic. They're doing a full court press with the media on this album. It's called I Built You a Tower. and you did an interview with Ben Gibbard yesterday as we record this,

and I think it's going to go up next week on Amazon Music. But was that your first time talking to him in person? Have you interviewed him before that? I've never interviewed Ben Gibbard. Wow. Yeah, it's surprising, right? It was sort of like it reminded me a lot of, I was kind of shook before doing this interview in the same way I was sort of shook.

when I interviewed Connor Overse back in 2020, not because it's like, oh, hey, this is someone who's made, like some of my favorite music of all time and I'm finally meeting them after 20 years. It's more like, what could I possibly ask these guys that have not been asked 25 times already?

Because if you remember 2020, that was like, bright eyes was like hitting the circuit hard. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had a same sort of feeling with this one, but I can assure you if you're wanting a reason to dip into the exclusive Amazon content, I guarantee, guarantee no other interviewer. Ben's not talking about DOS effects with anybody else. He's not talking about why he had beef with Jeff Amit.

What? When you hear it, you'll be like, okay, well, that makes a lot of sense. I'll just give you a hint. Like, we get into a pretty heavy sports cast. I tried to format it, similar to an episode of Indycast where, you know, I do the intro for the first time. I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I do that bit.

And then we just get into sports because Ben's a huge Mariners guy. And his sports love for Seattle goes deep. But, yeah, we talked a lot about rap. We talked about Jane's addiction. We talked about the record as well. And, yeah, I feel a little threatened by this because, Is he a better co-host for you than I am? Because he's got DOS effects going.

He could do sportscast. Yeah. I feel like I got to step up my game here because maybe it's going to be Ben Gibbard and Ian Cohen now on Indiecast. Yeah. But there are two things that it'll be tough to notice when you watch it. I'll just give a little bit of a preview. One is that they gave me a chair or like a couch or what have you

where my feet didn't touch the ground. initially. Like Ben's like six, two, and I'm not. So we had to, like, I'm meeting someone whose music has just really changed my life in a lot of ways. And I'm like, I need like a booster seat. And that's like way more embarrassing than admitting to a grown ass man that, hey, my first blog was named after one of your songs. So I don't really go deep on death cab at all. And I don't have a strong opinion about them either way. I mean, I've, I've dipped into their catalog here and there. And I guess I never felt strongly compelled to go fully into the rabbit hole.

Can you just talk briefly? Because you've heard the new record, I assume. Yeah. It's really good. Okay. So I want to hear what you have to say about the new record. But can you just talk a little bit about, like, for someone like me, like, what would be your elevator pitch for Death Cap for QD?

What makes us a great band? Why are they important? I'm kind of surprised that you've expressed such indifference to this. them because they are a band, I think, that would engender much, much harder reaction if you're not a fan of them. They are, I mean, Chris Wallace production on the first three, it's sort of like a better case scenario for Modest Mouse where the first three, first four, first five, I would say, records, pretty untouchable. They get a little bit sketchier as the band starts to evolve. but I remember you said like telling me that you couldn't like you thought like they were kind of like anonymous or like forgettable and I think Ben Gibbard has one of the most distinct vocal and lyrical styles of any indie act of their generation he actually talked about his sense of the Gabbardian in an interview Jenny Lewis made that quote up and I'm just going to be very real in that if you've got to get into this band in your 20s.

Like there's really no other way. Yeah, I think I missed my window. Yeah. You know, I was trying in my 30s and 40s and maybe it was just a little too late. And also those were- The pants don't fit at that point. Yeah. They're too skinny for me.

Yeah, it's like, you know, there's a time in your life where you could probably wear a leather jacket and if you don't do it, it's going to be a lot tougher. But, yeah, it's- You got to set the template that you are a leather jacket person early on. You can't become a leather jacket person in middle-age. It just doesn't work. Yeah, so, yeah, the first couple of records, I mean, you just need to be, like, in your teens or 20s and just have the most, like, self-pitying, self-destructive relationships. And, you know, we talked about this where Ben would write a song, like, 405 about a relationship that lasted, like, two months and you're writing about, like, it's the end of the world.

He has, like, a really good perspective on, you know, his early work, but also the kind of shaky middle ground where, like Chris Walla left the band. They were working with a guy named Rich Costi and making like K-Rock songs. But yeah, the new records, the new record's really good. I think they did, they really leveled it up with the last one, Asphalt Meadows, working with John Congleton. This one's a lot tighter than Asphalt Meadows. They're getting back to a, I would say photo, like a Barsook era, like photo album type sound on this one with a little more kind of rock to it. And the interesting thing about this is it's a divorce album. Like, then's been very open about that one.

But it's like the anti-American football LP4 in that it's, you know, the divorce is handled with like, you know, grace, maturity and taste. It's not going to arena rock like American football day, which is great in its own way. But it's also one that's not going to completely wreck your life, like transatlanticism. I would say for you, my elevator pitch is to. to check out, we have the facts and we're voting yes. This is their second album. It came out in 2000.

Yes. I know the album. I can picture the album cover. Like the white figure running. Yes. Yeah. J-SOM has that album cover as a tattoo. A little fun fact.

But that is the midpoint between their earliest work where they were sounding a lot like Bill to Spill. Right. You know, Ben was telling me that he, He went to a show with Sunday Day Real Estate and Lowe back in like 1994, and that was kind of the area in which they were operating. So that's a record where they've kind of perfected the more slow core Pacific Northwest sound and starting to develop more of a kind of a lyrical perspective unique to Ben Gibber. But it hasn't completely coalesced in the way that it would on the photo album and especially transatlanticism, which is what you're associating with the O.C. and that era of indie rock.

So I think that it is a very low-key record. It's like minor classic is what I would call it. I think that is the one that if you feel yourself to be a death cab agnostic or you like indie rock, like 90s Pacific Northwest indie rock, but you're not so sure about, you know, like, oh, can I like like the death cab stuff? Like, that's the one to go to. All right. I've heard that album. but many, many years ago.

So this would be a good excuse for me to get back into them. Because I am fascinated by long-running bands. You know, this is something I've written a lot about. And just like what it takes to keep a band together and to stay interested in a project for, you know, over the course of decades, even after you've accomplished everything you've ever would have set out to do. And, you know, you mentioned American Football earlier.

And we talked when that album came out about how American football now feels like a legacy band, almost like a classic rock band that if you're younger in getting into indie rock, they feel like they're part of the canon. Death Cab is definitely part of the canon for 21st century bands. I mean, I feel like they transcend the emo tag. They just feel like a quintessential indie rock band of the 2000s.

Yeah, I would also, yeah, seeing as you started this Rolling Stone series in the 80s, I wouldn't compare Death Cab's 2010's albums to that but they were definitely and Ben will tell you this like getting a little overproduced getting a little self-conscious

so they do have a wilderness period which makes the last two records really satisfying. Maybe you'll like thank you for today more than like Ben said like yeah you know codes and keys that's no like Kinsugi these are nobody's top three albums in Death Cab but maybe they'll be yours

We've not reached a part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first? So I had to choose this one first because I was suspecting that Steve might pick this. It is a artist called Greg Mendez. The album is called Beauty Land on Dead Oceans. Now I like their last album. And I would call Greg the Joyce Manor of Elliot Smiths in that,

you know, not because it sounds like Joyce Manor, but it's that he's the most ruthlessly efficient songwriter I've heard in this style. The new album, I believe, is 14 songs in 26 minutes, which, you know, is epic in Joyce Manor terms. But he is somebody who can absolutely destroy you with just one line. The first song on this album talks about, like, him getting robbed. And, you know, at 3 in the morning, he's like, no one's out except people like me. and I think that is it's tough for me to glamorize that aspect of it

because this is like depressing music like music where you hear it and it's like the Elliot Smith songs where you're like actually worried about him like you know there are songs about going to rehab songs about just like waking up fucked up about getting mugged

and it's what if the entire Elliot Smith album was I didn't understand not in terms of how it's composed, but just in terms of mood. It's only 26 minutes, but it'll still mess up your whole day if you listen to it. And I say that positively. There's so much music that sounds like Elliot Smith, but very, very few who really tap into, you know, the emotional component of it, which is, it's easy to forget, given how legendary Elliot Smith is and how people take pictures in front of the figure eight wall in L.A. So I imagine you like this album a lot too.

I do. Yeah, I actually reviewed this album on my substack this week. And I will say that you can put this on and just appreciate it as music. Like if you aren't clued into the lyrics, it is just a really pretty album. I guess in the same way that Elliott Smith records were, you know, back in the 90s and 2000s. But you're right. He is a very efficient songwriter. You know, he gets in there with a grabby verse, a memorable chorus.

and then he's out in about two minutes. Yeah. Every song. Or even less. Or even less. Yeah. But, you know, like Elliot Smith, there is a subtle musical sophistication going on, you know, where he's writing these heavy lyrics, but also the music has like a real kind of beetle-esque quality at times. I mean, he's not as produced as Elliot Smith was as he got into like the XO figure eight era.

but it is, you know, it's the kind of record where, oh, there's a drum on this song and there's some backing vocals. I mean, that sounds pretty lush, you know, relative to the rest of the record. So, yes, Greg Mendes, Beauty Land, I concur on that one. I want to talk about a band called Future Birds. This is a band from Athens, Georgia. They've been around, I feel like close to 20 years at this point. And, you know, we're at a moment right now, like we're drive-by truck. have for years now been a very fashionable reference point to make for indie rockers.

You know, people that love drive-by truckers that emulate them or inspired by them. But I would say future birds are among the few bands that actually deserve those types of comparisons. Not only because they're also from Athens, just like Drive-by Truckers is, but also because they have that real gravitas that comes from being on the road for a long time. and being like a working band, putting out records regularly, and building an audience without ever being like the flavor de jour in the media. They just kind of go about their business and make really good music.

And they have a record out today called Far Out Country One and Two. This is a double record. And they're releasing it in sort of a unique way. If you buy the vinyl, you can have the whole album now. But if you want to stream it, you're only going to get the first half of the record, now and then the second half of the record isn't coming up until September. So I would just say that this is a great summertime album. So if you can swing the vinyl, for seasonal purposes, you might want to do that.

It's interesting too because it is structured like a double album. But it's a double album in the same way that Being There by Wilco is a double album. Like if you look at the individual discs of that record, each disc is only about a half hour long. and it's similar to the Future Birds album. It's more about sort of the idea of a double album, the idea of just having a expansive statement with a lot of breath that can show everything the band is capable of. And I think on this album Future Birds is doing that.

You have songs that are maybe more in the style of like a Vision Questy Southern rock, My Morning Jacket type vibe. And then you have other songs that are more of like a down-home, more of a twangy country-type feel. It's all great, though, and they're a band I've liked for a really long time. This album's produced by Brad Cook, one of the leading producers of this kind of music, probably best known for doing Waxahatchie's record, St. Cloud. I think he did Tiger's Blood, too, actually.

And Waxahatchie is on this album, so she's singing backup. I feel like Katie Crutchfield, always very generous with her time. She will show up on your record if you ask. But yeah, this is a great record. Far Out Country wanted to definitely check it out. The Band is Future Birds, and I am recommending them today. Yeah, I thought they were in Athens when I was there, but I guess they started in 2008.

I left Athens, Georgia, in 2006. And I got to ask this as like a tag. Do you remember the Whigs? Oh, yeah. The Wigs, the W-H-I-G. Were they from Athens? I thought they were from Athens, Georgia. Yeah, they were like first coming up when I was,

when I was there in 2003 and 2006. So, yeah, you just look at, like, the bands they've toured with, like, Black Keys, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, Kings of Leon. I'm like, I bet Steve liked that band. Oh, yeah. Future Birds. I think I've got a T-shirt of theirs that I bought, like 15 years ago, and it doesn't fit as well as it did back then.

But I digress. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news, reviews, and hashing out trends next week.