Indiecast - Idles + Courtney Barnett, Plus: Astroworld Tragedy

Episode Date: November 12, 2021

This week’s episode of is dedicated to two of the greatest indie rock success stories over the last decade. First up is Idles, whose new album Crawler follows up 2020’s Ultra Mono and continues down a musical path toward what Steven Hyden recently called “the mix of political righteousness and musical bluntness that once caused people to call The Clash ‘the only band that matters.'” Does Idles actually pull of the tightrope walk on Crawler?Next on the review list is Courtney Barnett, whose new album Things Take Time, Take Time is her first in a little more than three years. While Barnett isn’t necessarily as consistently discussed on music publications and music writer Twitter as a band like Idles, her albums are always well-received and her touring business is consistently growing and lucrative, making for an ideal situation for indie rock stardom. Things Take Time, Take Time is surely to continue Barnett’s trajectory and build her fervent fan base.In this week’s Recommendation Corner, Ian is plugging the latest release from SeeYouSpaceCowboy, and Steve is enjoying A Way Forward, the second album in two years from Brooklyn trio Nation Of Language.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycasts. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we review new albums by Idols and Courtney Barnett. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, the person who misspelled Japan droids on the shaky knees festival poster, Ian Cohen, Ian How are you?

I'm saying, man, you cannot buy the kind of publicity. Like, the fact that they have Japan Droids playing Celebration Rock, is one thing, but the fact that they spelled it wrong has put this festival in the limelight in a way that properly spelling it couldn't. They should do this stuff more often, especially with like these ones that look like eye charts. I don't know if you saw the Tree Fort Music Festival poster. Oh, yeah. That's really hard to read. Yeah, I look at that and wonder, are we on this? Like, did Uprocks go a little bit outside of our scope to like say, hey, we're going to expand our live footprint to the mountain time zone.

You've been hitting the Midwest and Canada really hard, but the Boise footprint, like that is Indycast territory to be conquered. Well, I feel like we should be booked at shaking needs. I've already reached out to this festival and offered some Indycast sponsorship, because this bill is so up our alley. And by the way, I should say that when we talk about Japan, Android's being misspelled. They misspelled it. Japan droins. So they added an N between the I and the D. Understandable. You know, who amongst us has it? And really, that's good publicity for them, too, because

I feel like the fact that it was misspelled that just generated so much more conversation about them coming back. They're going to do Celebration Rock. Am I wrong to speculate that they'll probably be doing a Celebration Rock tour next year? I mean, it seems like this won't be a one-off. I don't know. I I have not heard anything about that. That's just me guessing. Yeah, I mean, I've been to Central Park in Atlanta before. And, like, by the way, like, morning, my morning jacket and death cap for cutie, like, holding down the Sunday. I just think of, like, what it would have been.

I mean, let's just run through this. We have, like, Green Day as a headliner, the Japan droids on Friday. And Travis, Travis as well. Travis, for the Ian Coenside. I like Travis, too. You have Nine Inch Nails as a headliner. You have a King Gis. in the Lizard Wizard,

you have Kurt Vile, gang abuse and guided by voices on the same day on Saturday. That is catering to me. That is the steepite. And Phantom Planet. Like, you, I didn't even see this the first time around.

Oh my. That's true. They're in the small type. Jason Schwartzman is long gone, though, right? Like, he wouldn't be at that gig. Uh, maybe he would be. I don't know.

I, I, oh, you know, I'm looking at the website right now, and they spelled, they corrected the Japan droids spelling. I'm a little disappointed. Yeah. Of course,

Japanese breakfast is also playing on Saturday. Can't have a festival without them. Yeah, she's cleaning up. Good for her. Destroyer is also Real small type. Sunday. Yeah, Destroyer

ranked below dirty honey. Yes, and the garden. Who's happy fits? I have no fucking clue. No idea. A pup is also playing on that Sunday? Jesus, geez Louise. This is, we need to.

to be in very small type here on one of these days, I think. So shaky knees, if you're listening, reach out to us, reach out. Our interns will arrange a Zoom call. I never need a reason to go to Atlanta. I was sort of hoping this would be in the fall so I could book it around a Georgia football game. But in the meantime, like, I'm more than happy to relive some version of me living in Georgia in 2005 with that My Morning Jacket, Death Cab Sunday night. Oh, God. And that'll be early spring. I guess it would be like the thick of spring because it's late April early May Yeah please hook us up

I'd love to go to that You asked about like the Japan droids Like touring Celebration Rock and you know maybe But I would God I would just love for like a side show to have Japan droids play Celebration Rock at the 40 watt In Athens like I know that like Even when you look at like what Central Park looks like

It's wide open it's pretty This needs to be at like a grimy like, you know, the masquerade or something like that. Like something grimy in Atlanta where you can just kind of wild out and, you know, there's no, like, drinks are free. This is, it's a, I'm happy that Japan droids still like music enough to play it live, but like, we need to really get the essence of celebration rock. Yeah, that'd be amazing.

I don't know. Hopefully that will happen. I'm guessing there'll be a tour. I don't know anything. I've not heard anything. I don't know. Maybe they went to grad school or something like that. I have no clue what those two are up to.

Well, how are you going to pay for grad school? You got to do a celebration rock tour, you know, line the coffers here a little bit by playing some dates. I'm just saying, we'll see what happens. I'm hoping I can chalk that one up as a correct call on my part. One thing that we need to talk about, and this is something that I, it makes me sad to talk about this, but this is the biggest music story,

and one of the biggest stories, really, of like the last week, and we'll certainly go down, I think, as, a major story that people talk about just for the whole year. And that is, of course, the tragedy that happened at the Astro World Festival last weekend. And for those who don't know the details, Astro World was a music festival or it is a music festival in Houston, a headline by Travis Scott. I believe it's happened a couple of times, hasn't it? Astro World, yeah.

It's not the first time they've done it. There was apparently a crowd surge during Travis Scott's performance. and eight people, including children and people of all ages, were crushed to death during this surge. And many more people were injured. And right now, there's an investigation going on trying to figure out how this happened. And I don't know about you, Ian, but I've been reluctant to comment about this or write about it just because I feel like there's still so much we don't know. It is such a terrible story. It's not something that should be talked about lightly.

It's weird to me too because, you know, when we talk about the worst instances of crowd surges in music history, you know, you have the Who concert that occurred in Cincinnati. That was in 1979, where 11 people were killed. It was before the show. People were trying to rush the doors, basically, when they were opened. And, of course, there was also GA seating at that show, festival seating. and that was a big controversy with that gig. 21 years later, you have the Pearl Jam show at Ross Kildi, that festival, and nine people were killed at that show. And then now, that was 21 years after The Who.

Now we have this astralad tragedy, 21 years after Pearl Jam. It's like this weird 21 year gap. And I'm sure, like, once the investigation bears out, and we're already seeing stories coming out about this, but I'm sure Live Nation is going to be implicated in this. Other people involved in organizing, you know, with the security, with the crowd management, the infrastructure of the festival, it just looks like it was a shambles, essentially.

One thing I want to talk to you about, though, is, you know, because I've seen this, you know, and I'm talking mainly about the music critic world, you know, with think pieces on social media. I feel like there's been a real focus on people saying, we shouldn't blame the artist in the situation like this, that it's not their fault when things like this happen. And I think I know why people make that caveat, because there's been so many instances in the past,

like where artists were blamed for this sort of thing. With Stock 99 being an example, limp biscuit taking, I think, a disproportionate amount of blame for what happened at that festival, as opposed to the organizers. And you're already seen, like, in right-wing, media, especially people really ganging up on Travis Scott and not talking so much about the

infrastructure and how poorly organized that was. But I do think that even if artists aren't primarily responsible, I'm wondering, like, what expectations should we as music fans have that if we go to a concert that the person headlining the show is going to do the due diligence to make sure that it's safe? obviously Travis Scott isn't in charge of the security. He's not in charge of organizing everything. But in a sense, he's like the CEO of Astro World. He's the figurehead.

And I guess I don't know how involved he was with that. That's another question that we have. But I'm just curious about that because I feel like maybe we're a little too quick on the music critic side because we don't want to sound like people from 20 years ago, like reactionary people. But even if he's not price. primarily responsible. There is some responsibility. And what do you think that should be? Yeah, I don't know what that is because I think about like artists and, you know, their job is to create, to make music, but like putting on a festival or like the hands on sort of things.

Like they can conceptualize things. But when it comes to the nuts and bolts, like that's outsourced and rightfully so to like experts. Now I also, yeah, I do think that the people are a lot more savvy about how. much say an artist has over these things. And moreover, like, people were like, oh, Travis Scott didn't stop the show, you know, when he saw an ambulance. Like, I imagine, like, you hear artists talk about, like, what it's like to be up on a stage of that sort. And everyone looks like ants.

And you can't really tell, like, what's a mosh pit or, like, a crowd surfing situation that is similar to any other show that Travis Scott plays. I mean, his whole deal, as far as a live accent. is recreating like a rock show except he makes hip hop. You know, the danger has been a present element in that music, and he encourages it, but, you know, not to the degree that it's been here before. But, you know, I think a reason people maybe aren't as up for blaming Travis Scott specifically is that this is a really convenient opportunity to air out grievances about Live Nation as a whole.

they're monopolizing of the concert space and just the recognition that Travis Scott isn't picking the police force he's not picking the paramedics he's not picking the security we've seen time and time again throughout history this is a result of people cutting corners

and not anticipating this sort of these things happening and yet when you look at I looked up Astro World 2019 just to see you know what like how many times they put it on. And there were, you know, crowd surges there as well. Also, Marilyn Manson played that festival, just like a side note.

Yeah, but that was 2019. It was a much different time. Oh, yeah, absolutely. But it's just like, but you, totally different era. Oh, totally. But, yeah, I, like, blaming Travis Scott in some way, like, it just seems sort of fruitless in a way that blaming Live Nation does not. Yeah, I mean, it's, right now it's just,

And also, Travis Scott made some unforced errors after the fact, like offering a month of a free, a month free of like a therapy app. Which, you know, once again, the intention was probably good, but the optics not great. Yeah, it's just like a terrible story all around and people want something to blame to, you know, convince ourselves that, hey, maybe this won't happen again in the future, even though it probably will. With Travis Scott, it's been interesting watching this unfold because it seems like when people, talk about him in the situation, they're really focusing on him as an instigator of crowd craziness essentially. Like when people want to blame him, that's been the thing. And you see some examples of him, you know, talking from the stage and it looks pretty bad on paper. And I tend to review that a little bit skeptically just because, you know, you and I, and I'm sure a lot

of people listening to this, we've all been to punk concerts, metal concerts, any kind of aggressive music concert. And there's usually some point in the show where someone on stage will say, you know, let's get crazy. Yeah, let's open up this fucking pit. Yeah. And it's understood that it doesn't literally mean let's hurt other people. Let's burn this place down.

It's just part of the experience. It's venting out energy. So I don't, I'm inclined not to take that literally, you know, just when you see it on paper. I guess the point I was trying to make isn't so much about that. It's about going into a festival and actually making yourself more involved in how these things are set up. And not merely just being someone who's going to swoop in, do your show, and leave. I mean, and honestly, in the case of Travis Scott with Astro World, this isn't like Limp Biscuitland playing Woodstock 99. I mean, this is his festival.

Yeah. So I think there's even more responsibility there. The example that I think of is with Pearl Jam when they played Ross Gildy, which that festival had a reputation for being safe before that horrible disaster happened. I think they actually lowered the attendance that year from 70,000 to 50,000 because they didn't want it to be overcrowded. And they still had that horrible tragedy. But in the aftermath of that, Pearl Jam made a point to essentially have a checklist that at any festival, they played, they would review the security force, you know, the communication channels between security and the stage if something were to happen, all these safety protocols essentially

that would assure the band that this would be a safe place for their fans to play. And again, I'd like to see more reporting on this. I don't know how common that is for artists when they play a Coachella or Lollapalooza, if that's something that they do. But I feel like at a minimum, that, just, you know, that's. should be something that an artist of a statue like Travis Scott should be expected to do. This isn't like a band on the indie level making $500 a night and they go to a club on a Tuesday night.

You know, they obviously don't have the means to do that type of due diligence. But if you're going to do these massive festivals, which offer a massive payday for these artists, I do think it's worth asking the question if artists are doing enough to make sure, along with everything else. Because again, I don't think that they're primarily to blame. I think it is about the promoters, Live Nation, et cetera, et cetera.

But I don't know. I don't think artists can just totally expect just to go to a festival, load in, play a gig, make a million dollars, and then leave. You know, like it is your audience. I think there needs to be some level of, you know, responsibility to your fans

when you're playing a show like this. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, It's sort of the thing where it just feels like kind of hopeless to like just throw, like at this point as, you know, but as more will be revealed, we will find where the failures happened and it'll be, you know, just, it'll be just sad and demoralizing on all ends. But, you know, hopefully, I don't know, like I think it just, it just kind of signifies that the festival experience by and large is absolutely dehumanizing and miserable for most people. and so it hopefully will allow us to reassess our relationship with festivals, which unfortunately so many bands at the indie level, not the Travis Scott level,

kind of need to sustain themselves. So it's just frustrating right now to think, is there a better way to do this and maybe thinking, I have no fucking clue? Yeah, I mean, and I saw a tweet about this last week that I thought it made a great point, that I think for us as music fans, have to remember that we're part of a collective in an audience, that it's not just about you and your friends.

And if you go to a festival or a concert, you have to think of all these people you're with, even if they're strangers, you're part of the same organism and you need to take care of each other. And I just feel like maybe that gets forgotten sometimes. And it's all about what you want to do, and it doesn't really matter. or if someone else gets hurt. And maybe that is, as you're saying, part of the environment that you're in,

that the environment encourages that. And there's not this community building that I think really needs to be there for these events to really come off and to be enjoyable for everybody. You know, like, we've all been locked inside for so long. And the great thing about going to a show is that you are with people who like the same band

and you can feel united with other people and not alone and trapped in your house. And I think if that feeling is there, maybe things like this don't happen. And everyone needs to work together to ensure that that is the case. All right, well, let's get to our mailbag segment. And thank you all for writing in. If you want to hit us up, we're at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. You can also find us on Twitter at Indicast1. And our letter today I'm excited about because I think is this our first letter from Chile?

It's definitely our first from Chile. I think we've had some South American mailbag before. But this one, yeah, I definitely think it's the first one from Chile. Well, won't you read this one? All right. So, this is from Diego in Chile and he says, hey guys. I listen to the podcast every week when I'm on my way to work. I'm from Chile and love your take on music.

Thanks. I have a question for both of you. What's your take about the band Girls? I haven't heard you mentioned them, and I think they were pretty big during the 2009-2012 era. I love how that's like a very discreet era, because it totally is. Well, and I wonder, too,

like if Diego was, you know, an adult during that period or if he's hearing about this after the fact because he's almost making it sound like he was, he's not sure if they were big at that time. Well, Diego, if you're listening to this, and I know you are because you listen every week on your way to work, hit us up about this crucial information. Yeah, are you middle-aged, or you like one of these millennials,

or Zoomers? Okay, so Christopher Owens is a great songwriter, but I don't know if he's doing music anymore. We'd love to hear your take. All right, so we got, I feel it was only a matter of time before we got a girl's question. Yeah, you know, and great question, Diego. Thanks again for listening and for writing in.

And we haven't talked about girls, even though we've talked about that window of time. Yes. And obviously that, you know, we've done a lot of remembering some guys from that period, but we've not remembered girls yet. So great question. What's your take on girls? Were you a fan?

So I think this was inevitable because, you know, as far as remembering some girls or remembering some guys who happened to be named girls, I think that if we're looking at the very, like the tail end of the blog rock era, like 2009, 2012, I think girls might be the last of that era. Like the last band to go from unknown to a total sensation to playing festivals. Like it shortened the timeline. Like they kind of came out of nowhere.

And they were, I would say, if not the last one of the last beneficiaries of like the blogs, the best new music pipeline. I liked album. I thought Hellhole Rat Race was. You know, just like a great kind of mock spiritualized song. And, you know, an album came out, Lust for Life is kind of a classic of its time. You know, there's just some really good songs. Just like a solid, classic rock influence album that, you know, it hit the mark.

I don't feel any strong emotions towards it. But, you know, I really enjoyed it. But do you remember what that guy from Pitchfork? It was very high. I think they were also like one of the last bands to get like a nine plus on their debut, right? 9.1 for album. They had an EP after that, which I don't remember the title of. Carolina was on that album.

That's a good song too. That's an 8.7. And then their last album, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, 9.3. Oh, okay. And then that album is where things started to kind of turn, where it's like, okay, I enjoy this hype band. And I'll throw these songs on a few mixes to the point where I remember hearing Father, Son, Holy Ghost, and thinking, this is such bullshit. Like, this is a bullshit rock record. You know, we have Celebration Rock, and we have bullshit rock.

Those are the two modes of discussion here on IndyCast. But I think when I listen to that record, and mind you, I haven't really revisited it in the time since, I probably should. Maybe I'd have like a softer opinion to it aside from the hype. but it seemed to me like it's like that spinal tap like discussion where I can't,

I'm going to paraphrase it's like I couldn't tell if it was like dumb or like real dumb. Some of these songs like it just seemed to me that the fine line between clever and stupid yeah that's it

yeah it just seemed to me it's like these were songs that the degree of separation between them and like Wolf Mother or Kings of Leon was a little unclear. And I do think that girls were a very self-aware band,

but I just think that there was this projection of this innocent wisdom, thanks to Chris Owen's narrative, that I don't think was particularly deserved. Yeah. By the way, I should say the name of the EP between the two albums is Broken Dreams Club. Yeah. Which dropped in 2010.

The first girl's album was 09, and then Father's Son, Holy Ghost was 2011. So they had that run of about three years where they really were one of the most critically acclaimed indie rock bands on the planet. And then they broke up pretty soon after that. And in a way they've been erased from the narrative. I feel like they did not get talked about really at all, which is strange when you actually go back and you see how acclaim they were in the moment.

And I remember them being a very beloved band. at around that time. And I remember that because they were maybe the number one band that I did not get. Wow, I'm surprised to hear that. I was, I thought Christopher Owens was like the epitome of the hipster-dufist caricature. He just seemed to have all of the qualities, if you want to use the word qualities, that people attributed to hipsters back then, like all the most odious things. Wow.

And I remember seeing them around that time on a bill with dumb dumb girls. And I was much more excited to see dumb, dumb girls. And by the way, I will be. Good album. 2010, really good record. And, you know, I actually revisited album after getting this question because I wanted to just see how I felt. And I like it a little bit more now because you mentioned the narrative with Christopher Owen. Like, wasn't he raised in a religious cult?

Yeah. That was the thing with him. I always hated his voice, and I still don't really like his voice. There's something about it that is so callow to me. And again, it just, he just looked like a dude that you would see, you know, in Brooklyn at, you know, some shitty all-ages venue that's totally overrated. And you just be, you just feel your skin crawling as soon as like he'd be. would open his mouth. It just seems so empty to me. I just didn't really connect with him as a front man or as a personality. I think musically, there's some good things there. I think who's the guitar player, J.R. Smith? J.R. Smith is a completely different dude. It's J.R. White.

J.R. Smith is the basketball player. J.R. Smith is the basketball player. Wouldn't it be great? I wish it was him. Yeah, Chet White, J.R. White. He unfortunately passed away last year. I liked what he did in that band. I like the, I mean, I think he was clearly, like the guitar parts album, I think, are pretty good. The production was fantastic, too. It just sounds, like, there's a lot of things in there

that I like, but just Owens to me was a big, just no for me. I was just not on board with him. I'm going to go on a quick tangent here, because this girl's question, I was thinking, like, oh, I wasn't into girls at this time, but like, what bloggy band? with, you know, jangly guitar pop.

Like, what, like, what band like that was I into? And I, I remembered that it was the Smith Westerns. Ah, yes. Smith Westerns were my girls. Like, Smith Westerns, I think, were pretty critically acclaimed. Yeah, they were. They didn't have the same kind of heat that, that girls got. But I think that their first two records, the self-title record, which I think was also 09,

might have been 08. Yeah, that sounds about right. Diet, like, die it, not diet, like, D-Eat, like, D-It, not Diet, like, I, that was 2011. Yeah, that was around the same time that Father, Son, Holy Ghost came out for girls. I listened to Diet Blonde this morning. That album holds up.

There's some bangers on there. It's got a great kind of T-Rex. Yeah. It's like a T-Rex and an early 70s George Harrison vibe to it. And of course, one of the dudes in that band went on to form Whitney, your favorite group of all time. Yes. I mean, is Smith Westerns now like a footnote to Whitney? I mean, do people remember Smith Westerns?

I have a lot of love for Smith Westerns still. I remember seeing them, it might have been their last tour. And it's one of the drunkest shows I've ever been to. It was so drunken. Well, it might have been both. But, I mean, they were, I mean, because those guys, I think when they started that band were still in high school. Yeah, that was the thing about them.

They were like kind of the opposite of girls in that. Like, they were, instead of being in a cult, they were just like these, you know, young rap scouts. who were bringing back like rock and on it like this ban could not exist in 2021 like I think they were a band that like broke up before something inevitably bad would have happened yeah I mean they kind of had that vibe of you know I can just being really young guys enjoying being in a rock band like the Orwells you know a rightfully canceled band let's not put them in the Orwells camp you know they might have just been more

In a sense, we don't know. We don't know. But just based on the records, Diet Blonde, and I guess this would be the 10th anniversary of that record this year. So go back. It's crazy that that record's 10 years old now.

But, yeah, I don't know. For me, I mean, look, I'll do respect to Diego, our listener, Diego's a big girls fan. I'm still not really that big of a fan. I would just say to Diego, if you haven't dug into Smith Westerns, maybe check that out.

It's a similar kind of vibe, I think, to girls. Just a little younger. Maybe the thing with Smith Westerns, to go back to your point, is that they were dumber, which made them better, you know? They were like a young, dumb rock band, and they were, like, really fun to listen to it. Also, maybe the fact they were, like, from Chicago and not, like, the West Coast maybe did it for you.

That's right. Blue Collar, Real America, the Heartland, all that stuff. Chicago, yeah. Chicago. Well, let's get to the meat of our episode. We have two big records to talk about this week. Our first is called Crawler by a band called Idols. This is a post-punk band from Bristol, England. Their first album, Brutalism, dropped in 2017. But it was their second record, Joy as an act of resistance, that was the breakout. Although I would argue, and we'll get into this as we get into our conversation about idols, that as their popular exploded after that album. It was really more about their live show, I think, than their records.

Certainly, their records have been popular, but, you know, Idles is one of those bands that, you know, they played a lot of festivals. You can go on YouTube. You can see what they do live. I think that if you're going to make a case for Idals, I'm more amenable to people saying that they're a great live band than they're a great band on record. Because their albums, I've always had issues with, and some of those issues I have, with Crawler, although I will say at the top that I think I like this album the most out of any Idol's record. And it's because this album is the most musically diverse that they've put out. And in the world of idols albums, that's not saying much. It's not like they're making

like a drum and bass record. They're not bringing in banjos or anything like that. I mean, they brought in Kenny Beats like this EDM slash rap producer. So they've made efforts, I think. Yeah, but I mean, there's no real discernible. Okay, yeah. I know they've, I know Joe Talbot, who's the lead singer, he's talked about hip-hop being an inspiration. Of course. I don't know if you would necessarily know that listening to the record. I would, you know, on this album, they do downshift into moodyer songs.

Like on the first track on the record, Joe Talbot actually sings instead of doing his usual, you know, barking gym teacher act, you know. and he sounds like Mark Lanigan. On the first track, sort of like an undead, cool rock guy croon type voice. And like there's another song on the record that reminds me of like Interpol, like if they went to the gym a lot.

This sounds like I would really like it. And so there's things like that that mix it up with the sort of usual shoddy punk pop post-punk songs that they do. I don't know. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this because you like to make fun of this band.

I love to make fun of this band. I got to say, this is probably the most nervous I've been before doing R-Pod because idols, and I think this plays into why they're so fun to make fun of on Twitter, is that aside from, like, cold play and the real A-listers we've discussed here, I think I know more people in real life

who like this band than any other we've discussed. Like any rock show I've been to in the past several years, there's probably going to be some idols shirts in there. Yeah, their footprint in the rock world is bigger than it is in the music press. Like they're under-discussed in terms of like how popular they are. I don't know about that because I think there are this sort of band where it's like a vocal minority against them. Like you look at like resistance as a form of joy. that album was like extremely critically acclaimed and that's when they started to go from this you know this post-punk

uh british band to one that was easy to mock because what what turned for them is i i just see them as such a in the same way that like girls like defines the tail end of the block rock era if you look at like 2018 and 19 like where they really started to become not just a popular rock band but like maybe one of the most popular rock bands to emerge from indie rock or like the indie the indie the indie sphere if you will um that that's between like when the year trump got elected and like there were a protest every weekend i remember going to them and 2020 where george floyd and covid there were protests in the streets then i think now that we have like some distance between from like 2018 and 19 like that was the peak of resistance pop culture.

Like, I say resistance with a hashtag. Like, this is when people started to get kind of, like, weary and maybe recognize there was only so much they could do. And it was just cool to see people who reflected our politics in pop culture. Like, that was the best we could do. Like, all of a sudden, enjoying, like, Lizzo's music was revolutionary in its own way. And these guys really showed their hand. They called the album.

resistance as a form of joy. Joy is a form of resistance. Joy, okay. Yeah. Joy is a form of resistance. Same idea. Yeah, same exact idea. And, you know, they would have these lyrics like, I'm like so cold Steve Austin.

I put homophobes in coffins. Like, this kind of, like, these guys want to be, like, I don't disagree with any of their politics whatsoever. Like, yes, homophobes are bad. Immigrants can be good. anti-immigration is bad. Toxic masculinity is bad, but they put it forth in a way that made them seem kind of smug and self-congratulatory. Like, look at us, we're challenging toxic masculinity.

It was like the sort of thing, it was the feeling I would have when I would like watch The Daily Show or John Oliver in 2018. And people wanted to think of it as like revolutionary when it just felt so impotent and futile to me. know, like, yeah. I mean, that's been the thing that people who don't like this band really go after. Absolutely. Are the lyrics, which is a very easy target. And we haven't even quoted some of the most. Oh, my God.

These, we got to do this right now. Because, like, I think that it may seem like we doth protest too much. But, I mean, this snowflake is an avalanche was one of them. There was one on the last record where he says, like, you say my race is not suitable. so I raise my pink fist and say black is beautiful. Yeah, that's the one. That's the one. That's the worst.

That's the worst one. But just to balance this out a little bit, because I will say that as a live band, I understand why people are loved. Absolutely. And I think when you see them live, it does mitigate some of the weaknesses of the record. Because to me, the weak link in this band is the lead singer.

I don't like his voice and I don't like his lyrics. Aside from that. Yeah. I think his performance style is very hectoring and strident. And it just gets on my nerves. Whereas I do like the guitar player, Mark Bowen, who has sort of an Angus Young style act where he'll go around stage and his underwear doing duck walks, playing the guitar. You know, and the rhythm section is like really hyperactive and flailing and, you know,

really energetic. And I like those aspects of the band. You know, I reviewed this album for Uprocks and I made this comparison and I'm curious. to hear what you think, because I realized, while listening to this record, that Idles is essentially the post-punk Mumford and Sons. Wait a minute, hold on.

I got to challenge this, because did that guy get kicked out of Mumford and Sons for being alt-right? Well, this is setting aside the political issues. Okay, gotcha. The notable political views of Mumford and Sons. I made the comparison in this sense that, like, Mumford and Sons, when they rose

to prominence in the late odds in early 2000, It was mainly, I think, on the strength of them going on television and doing these really energetic performances that would steal the show. And they were great in like a four-minute dose. But if you listen to an entire Mumford & Sons record, you realize that they only really had one level of musicality. That everything would start at 11 and it would explode into an anthem. And they didn't really have any kind of other tricks in their arsenal. And I think Idles has a similar problem in that if you see them in a four-minute clip on YouTube, you think, wow, this is a great band.

Yeah, this is bringing a real rock back. But if you listen to an entire record, for me, I just get exhausted, and I find them to be a suffocating band because I don't think they have much range, and I don't think there's much dynamics in their music. And I think they are trying to rectify that on the new record, because some records start at eight, not at 11. You know what I mean? Like most of their records, every song is at 11.

But some of these are like, well, we'll start at 7 or 8, and then we'll eventually build up to 11. So like relative to what else they've done, it feels a little less in your face and a little less one note. So that would be a positive thing I'd say about this record. But I still feel like for the most part, I don't think that albums are like the ideal venue for this band. I think if you want to appreciate this band,

go see them at a festival. I don't think that they're well served by their records. Because, again, I just find them to be incredibly one note and exhausting. Even though they're not that long, they feel like a slog. Yeah. I think with them, it's like they're a rare band that we discuss here. It's like, no, I'd actually rather see them in a festival setting. So it cuts against, like, the things that bother me on the record.

And, yeah, I just think they kind of fill a void right now for people. like this is a band that appeals to people who haven't found a heck of a lot to like about rock music in the past couple of years. So I think what they've done in releasing two albums in the past two years is expedite the process of getting to a space where they're just no longer easy to make fun of. And maybe we can just kind of appreciate and respect what they do rather than just kind of keep bashing on them. You know, muse reached that point on their last album. So, yeah, maybe Idols is just kind of tweeting through it right now. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we've talked on this show about how aggressive music has pretty much gone away in mainstream indie rock, like the most popular acclaimed artist. There's not really any trace of aggression and what they do.

So in that respect, to your point, I think Idols does serve that audience. It does. Maybe listens to a band like The War on Drugs and they're like, this is too mellow for me. I need a guy yelling at me about immigration for 40 minutes. You know, like, that's something that's going to make me excited. And I can see why that would be the case. I totally get the appeal. I would just say, again, I'd rather see this band live than listen to their records.

We don't need this when a new gang of use album's been announced. You know what I mean? Exactly. Well, let's move on to the second record we're going to be reviewing today, which is things take time, take time. by Courtney Barnett, who, of course, has been one of the most acclaimed singer-songwriters in the indie realm over the past decade. Although, and I think you would agree with me on this,

it seems like she doesn't get quite the same amount of attention that she did, say, in the mid-2010s. And, you know, I just want to say at the start that I think that this new record is the best thing that she's done since the mid-2010s. I really like this record a lot. That was a big wind-up for a qualified bit of praise. Well, you know, I mean, look, her big breakthrough, you know, was her 2015 record. Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit. You know, that was a very beloved record. And then I feel like, you know, she did the record with Kirk Vile, a lot of sea lice,

which I think is like a really good record. But then I feel like her 2018 record, tell me how you really feel. It seems like the general consensus on that is that it was a disappointment. I mean, I know that was well reviewed, but just from talking with other fans of Courtney Barnett, it seems like that album maybe took away some of her momentum a little bit. And in that time, you know, we, you know, we look at indie rock right now,

and it is dominated, certainly in terms of media coverage by women, singer-songwriters. You know, we had snail mail. We talked about her last week. Of course, there's Mitzki. She announced a new album this week. That's going to be a huge record. She's co-writing songs with Dan Wilson now of Semi-Sonic.

Oh, yeah. I mean, he co-wrote someone like you with Adele. I mean, he's written big hits with the Dixie Chicks. I mean, that's like a big-time pop hired gun. Yeah, he'll always be the singing in my sleep guy to me, though. All right, closing time, of course. But, you know, you got Phoebe Bridgers, Lucy Dacus. Julian Baker, yeah.

Julian Baker. And, you know, Courtney Barnett, she feels almost like a different generation from those artists, even though she's like basically around the same age. And there is this weird sense that she's kind of been put to the side from like this generation of artists that people seem to be excited about. I mean, am I wrong on that? Because I'll say that, like, again, I like this new record a lot. I still feel like she's like one of the best artists working in this lane of like sort of

rye, a melodic, funny, sad, you know, songs written from, you know, like this female perspective. I still feel like she's one of the best people doing it, but my sense is that she's not getting quite the same amount of traction as maybe some of those other artists. Yeah, I mean, it definitely appears that way, and then I looked at her Spotify page, and she's still got like 1.3 million monthly listeners, Ray Street, the first single and lead off track,

has to some odd million plays. I think that maybe it is a generational thing, because, yeah, like that's, and I love how you talked about the mid-2000s as like this bygone era, which it totally is. Six years ago. Yeah, none of the artists that we've talked about, aside maybe from Julian Baker,

that was when Spray and ankle came out. But yeah, I think that like Courtney Barnett, even back then, seemed resistant to Paris social kind of relationship with the listener. In a way, like she always just kind of seemed like a little bit removed or above it. And I also think that she does write from this very rye perspective, but it's not about necessarily like relationships or even, you know,

even though her best song is called Depreston, it's not totally about depression in the way that it's experienced really on Twitter. And so I think even from the jump, she, there was just like this level of removal from hype, even though she was one of the most hype people of that era. and yeah, I do think the second album maybe took a little bit of the momentum out of her. And also, it kind of confirmed that she was in a similar way to idols, like a band, someone that people like who maybe don't keep up with the latest microtrends.

And I think this album, this new album, it really kind of moves to the rhythm of like, you know, pandemic living. I listen to it when I listen to it while eating breakfast and walking my dog. And I think that's the pace that Courtney Barnett is best suited for. I don't have like these big cathartic emotional experiences, nor do I think it's meant to do that. And I think that's maybe why this doesn't quite feel as urgent in the scope of indie rock right now. Yeah, you know, it's funny because to your point about her, shunning hype.

You know, we talk on this show about the cult of personality that exists now with the biggest stars in Indy Rock, that it is very similar to pop startup now, where when you have a new record from someone like Mitzki, it's not just about the record. It's about what people are projecting onto her as a persona. And Courtney Barnett doesn't have a persona. I think she does, just not one that, like, in a way, it's more relatable. Yeah, it's not as heightened. She's not the kind of artist that people are going to say,

run me over a truck, Courtney Barnett. It'd be more like, let's get a coffee, Courtney Barnett. Let's go shopping together, Courtney Barnett. And I don't know if that explains why I think her audience is older than someone like Phoebe Bridgers or Mitzky. It seems like their audience is pretty young, you know, young 20-somethings, maybe even teenagers. Whereas Courtney Barnett,

and I could be totally wrong here, but based on when I've gone to her shows, it's like 50-year-old guys who like Kraft Beer. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. You know, and look, and I'm not taking any shots because I'm like, you know, in the... We are the audience. Yeah, but I'm, you know, I'm closer to that than I am to a 20-year-old person. And there is something almost old school about her in that regard. You know, she made that record with Kurt Vile, and I think Kurt is a similar type of personality where I just want to make records. and I'm not really going to engage in tweeting a lot

like a Phoebe Bridgers would or playing the game of having people relate to me as a character. Which I totally respect, although I feel like in the modern era, sometimes that might do a disservice to someone like Courtney Barnett because I think there's a perception that maybe she's not as interesting as some of these other artists

or that her music is more stayed or even dull. And I don't think that's true at all. This record to me, look, I'm going to speak in the parlance of Courtney Barnett's songs out here because I know the people who are going to be most interested in hearing about this record. Like, I would say that every song on this record either sounds like Avont Gardner and that it's like a spacey jam with cool guitar parts or it's like Depreston, where it's like a minor key song that gives you like a really good character study in the space of about three minutes. You know, it's almost like every other song is either Avant Gardner or De Preston.

You know, songs that will remind you of that. And I think in the parlance of Courtney Barnett's songs, if this is an artist you like, I do think that this is going to be a record that hits you more than, say, the last record did. I really do think that this is a record that sits more comfortably next to you. Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit. So for all those people out there, crack open that craft beer and put on this record

I think you'll enjoy it. All right, we've not reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian went to go first. All right, so it's so rare

that I get to hype up local San Diego bands. So I'm really stoked to talk about CU Space Cowboy. This is like, you want the exact opposite of Courtney Barnett. This is not chill.

This is not measured. this is just leave it all out there. Sasscore. Now, I think I have to explain to our Indycast audience what Sasscore is. Imagine like Blood Brothers or AFI, but just times two and combined. Their band that's been around for a while, they released the new album called The Romance of Affliction last week. And it's a record about the frontwoman, Connie Scarbone. I'm going to pronounce that name as best as I can.

She struggled a lot with addiction about mental health problems. And after the album was released, or after the album was finished, she OD'd on her couch. But rather than saying, like, maybe I need to change my ways, which, you know, I think that she is doing so. It kind of, in her words, kind of justified her decision to make a very dark and angry record about like the kind of hopelessness of addiction. this is a real acquired taste. If you watch the videos, they are very much 2005-2007 MySpace in terms of dress

and the kind of over-dramatic, you know, intentionally melodramatic song titles. But I also think it's one of the most interesting and surprisingly catchy, heavy, very abrasive rock records of the past year. If you're, if you have like any opening for this type of music, this is, uh, going to really just knock you off your fucking feet. So very much on brand with that one. But C-U Space Cowboy, I'm a little disappointed. They're doing a massive American tour, but not coming to San Diego. Maybe there's something there.

I know, right? Dis in San Diego. Hate to see it on this show. The band I'm going to talk about is called Nation of Language. This is an indie rock trio from Brooklyn that formed in 2016. They put out a debut record last year called Introduction Presence. And I know for me personally this record got lost in the shuffle a little bit. I'm going to blame the pandemic for that.

Although I know some critics were on top of this band, most notably Ryan Lease over at Stereo Gum. Shout out to Ryan. They put out a new record earlier this month called A Way Forward. And this record I have not slept on. In fact, I've been listening to it pretty much nonstop for the past week or so. And it's just a really catchy collection of synth rock songs. And if you are into things like craft work, or early Depeche mode.

This is going to be right up your alley. I know that they've also cited orchestral maneuvers in the dark as an influence. So it has, again, really cool vintage synth tones, but, you know, anyone can plug in one of these old synths and get cool sounds. You do have to have good songs at the end of the day. And I think that they really do deliver. These are just really melodic, again, catchy songs. And I've just had it on a loop.

So I really recommend this record. Again, it's called a Way Forward, and the band is called Nation of Language. What stands out to me about this record is that if it really were 2009, 2012, this would not be an under-the-radar record. No, this is like old-school Brooklyn Buzz Band, like play CMJ, kill it at CMJ, do the 3 p.m. set at Pitchfork Festival-type band. Yeah, so really this band, you know, they might be contextualized by some as like a throwback to, the 70s, but they're really a throwback to the late odds, I think. I think we can call them remembering some guys' core. Thank you again for listening to this episode. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more

music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mixed Tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.