Indiecast - Indiecast Hall Of Fame Albums Plus: March Madness Indiecast Bracket

Episode Date: March 18, 2022

Gang Of Youths was recently named one of the most Indiecast bands, but what other musicians fit nicely in with the Indiecast brand? Since the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame was in the news this week thanks to Dolly Parton (2:43), Indiecast hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen decide to induct four albums into the Indiecast Hall Of Fame (29:04).Steven and Ian also discuss some of the biggest news in indie music this week, which this time had to do with a somewhat imaginary feud between Japanese Breakfast and Machine Gun Kelly (11:08). After MGK shared his upcoming album cover, many Japanese Breakfast fans pointed out its similarities to Jubilee's artwork. But that begs the questions: Does MGK even know what a persimmon is? And, more importantly, has he ever heard a Japanese Breakfast song?In this week's Recommendation Corner (51:09), Ian talks Oso Oso surprise-releasing their fourth studio album. Steven discusses his recent Uproxx interview with Destroyer's Dan Bejar ahead of next week's new album.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 81 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's Indy Mix tape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast on this show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week. We review albums and we hash out trends. In this episode, we induct four new albums into our Indycast Hall of Fame. My name is Stephen Hayden and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. I assume he has already pre-ordered my book about Pearl Jam due out in September. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you?

Yeah, I just first got to say, you fucked up big time by not releasing this. in a 10 style CD long box. I mean, that's just... Not my call, not my call, my friend. If it had been my call, I mean, come on, you know that I would be doing the CD-only edition. Like, I think that audiobooks are still put out on CD in some area. Because I think that for one of my books, there was a CD version of the audiobook,

which makes me feel like I should have bought that myself. But maybe I can push the publisher. let's put it out on CD, the audio version for all the CD heads out there who are going to want to listen to it. Or just like a pop-up, like a pop-up store, like a pop-up Sam Goody

where there's like the audio, like the little audiobook section next to the musical instruments that they would sell like sometimes in Sam Goody. Like we need to like, actually no, like no,

because I'm pretty sure this book doesn't just like talk about Pearl Jam like 1991 Pearl Jam. It's about kind of the long view of... Yeah, it's about the entire career. And I should say, I don't want to beat this

Dead Horse too much, at least not yet, because this book isn't coming up for another six months. Let's pace ourselves here. Yeah, I'm sure I'll be plugging it a lot on this podcast, but my book,

it's called Long Road, Pearl Jam, in the soundtrack of a generation. It comes out in September. The cover was unveiled this week, and I started doing the official pre-order push. And I'll just say quick

that I know, it sounds weird to order a book six months before it comes out, but pre-orders do help authors. A lot of times if a book has some buzz early on, more bookstores are more apt to carry it, more people are apt to cover it, it just helps build momentum. So if you feel like plotting out your fall reading schedule here in early spring, please order the book, that's all I'm going to say for now, because we have lots of other trends to hash out. Yeah.

This is a, we don't say plugging, product in our intro. We say hashing out trends, reviewing music. So, I feel like we should talk about the Dali Parton story this week. The funny thing about, like, mentioning your book at, at, off the top

is that, like, that's, like, actual news. That is a, that is a, that is a piece of media that is coming out and people are excited about it. Whereas, the Dali Parton thing, we are transitioning to the part of the episode where we talk about, like, real

nothing. And, you know, Burger's stories that have popped up because South by Southwest is brought us back to normal where mid-March is a complete dead zone for actual media. And so... It's a good point because there were a bunch of stories that seemed sort of made up this week. People making up something to get mad about. I mean, the Dali Parton story, for those who don't know, Dali Parton, she released the statement this week saying that she is not accepted.

her, she was nominated to be considered for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year. People are voting right now. So she hasn't been voted in yet. I would have predicted that she would have been voted in if she had decided to keep herself in consideration, but she said, don't vote for me. I don't make rock music. So I don't think I should be voted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You know, I think that's cool. If she doesn't want to do it, good for her. I mean, anything Dalai

Parton does, I feel like people are on board with. Yeah. She has tons of goodwill at this point. But this launched a slew of think pieces and tweets about whether this damages the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and

whether it should be renamed. And that's a conversation that's gone on for a long time about because people like Dolly Parton, people in hip-hop or in jazz, you know, artists who are not Rock have been voted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

And that bothers some people. Yeah, I guess. That bothers people out there in the discourse community. Well, as a voter for the rock, you're a voter, right? Like this is... I am a voter. Yeah, so does this bother you? No, you know, so the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, it was started in the mid-80s.

Obviously, rock and roll had a much different place in the culture at that time. I think the idea, as the museum evolved, was to define rock and roll in the broadest possible terms. So not only are you going to induct rock people, you're also going to induct artists who are adjacent to rock, maybe artists who have influenced people in the rock genre but aren't necessarily making rock music. And I happen to endorse that point of view. I think it should be broad because I think once you start defining something as broad

as rock and roll music is anyway, it starts to get a little dicey. Yeah. And I tend to be... I like the inclusive route. versus the exclusive route. And I think you could have made a case for Dolly Parton being an influence on certainly singer-songwriters in rock music, even though maybe she hasn't made a rock record.

But I don't know. How do you feel? Because you have no opinions about the rock and roll hall of fame. I have like, I think so little about the rock and roll hall of fame. And like, you know, that's not meant as a personal slight. But, you know, I just think this story is funny because, it views the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as this, like, vital organ of pop culture as opposed to, like, quite literally, like, a museum in Cleveland, Ohio. No offense to Cleveland, Ohio, but, like,

it's a building. It is notoriously impervious to any sort of trends, like, less so than even the Grammys. I just, like, this is actually the second funniest Dolly Parton's story of recent times. The first is that I think she went on Twitter or like some interview and debunked the myth that she wrote Jolene and I will always love you on the same day. Yes. That was a great. Eric Alper died, I think. Everyone made the same exact, yo, we need to check on Eric Alper joke, which it's

like one of those like beautiful moments where like Twitter is all dunking on the same person. But like if Dolly Parton takes herself out of consideration, like this is what it would be interesting to me. I think back, like, it was only four months ago that, like, college football teams and bowl games would, you know, say, like, hey, we got some COVID shit going on. We're going to take ourselves out of it. And then there were, like, these teams that were, like, five and seven that would volunteer to play in the bowl game, you know, like a Rutgers or, like, a Western Michigan. If Dolly Parton takes herself out of the running, like, does this mean, like,

another band can, like, we'll get on the ballot as, like, a replacement? Like, I'm, like, I would love to see everyone, like, praising Dolly Parton for her magnanimity, I can't even say magnanimity or whatever, but like this, the selfless act, like if Scorpions got on or something like that. Well, it is interesting to consider out of the, you know, body of nominees, like, who will get voted up now, now that Dali Parton is out of the running. Like, maybe there would have been someone who was close, but if Dali was in there, they wouldn't have gotten enough votes to be indicted.

Because someone's going to benefit from the dolly bump. Again. From her taking herself out of consideration. Because again, I think she was, to me, like, the obvious slam dunk. Yeah, that's like Mariana Rivera type 99%. Because, like, I mean, this story is not so much about, like, Dolly Parton as it is about the way your average rock and roll hall of fame voter slash, like, music critics talks about this person now. Right. Yeah.

I think that, I mean, obviously, Dolly Parton's had a great career. I think she can get in on the merits. But she is one of those artists that people feel good about boosting. Yeah. And we talk about this on the show. There's people that seem to have a lot of goodwill, and they can do things that maybe another person who doesn't have as much goodwill, if they did the exact same thing, they'd be criticized.

I think the Mitzky and Jack White conversation about phones is an example of that, like where Mitzky, I think, got a lot of praise for her stance on phones, whereas Jack White just seems like people dunk on him. whenever he talks about phones. The thing with Dali Parton is, and if you want to make a case against this, against her going in the Hall of Fame, I don't think it's about her being country.

It's about her coming out of the 60s and 70s, which is how the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they still have a bias in that direction, where they're still looking to that generation to look for nominees, which is how you end up with people like Steve Miller band in the Hall of Fame, which, you know, I like Steve Miller Band okay, but I don't necessarily think of them as like an essential act.

Dude, you're like, are you sure you want to go down that road? Like, you know, as a Wisconsinite, like... Well, I think he was born in Wisconsin. Him and Bob Skaggs were in the same fraternity together. Is that right? I believe that's the case, yes. And I think Skaggs is in, too. Yeah.

I think he's in the Hall of Fame. So you have, you know, artists that I think are maybe like third or four. tier in the 60s and 70s getting consideration. Meanwhile, artists in the 80s and 90s, they're still way behind on recognizing those artists. I mean, basically most of the great punk, indie rock, and metal bands from that era have not been inducted. And we're talking about like obvious things or things that would seem obvious. You know, the replacements, Hoosker Do, the Smiths, the Pixies, Sonic Youth, Soundgarden,

Alice and Chains, you know, Rage Against the Machine is still not in. this year. I think Tom Morello really needs to be out in the public discourse more. I don't think he's doing enough to put himself in Rock. He's like second to Dave Grohl as far as like being a spokesperson for Real Rock, man. That's just wild to me. And he's on the nominating committee and he still can't get in. So I don't know.

Morello, he's turning into like the Beto O'Rourke of the Rockma Hall of Fame, like where Beto just keeps running and he can't get in. I think Beto would love that comparison. Harrison. I'm sure Morello would too. Oh my God. We got to get into an even more nothing story to the point where like

even both artists have talked about, yeah, this is nothing. The Machine Gun Kelly first Japanese breakfast like quote, quote feud. I love this one. This was something I came up in Rolling Stone. Because Machine Gun

Kelly released the album cover for its upcoming record called Mainstream Sell Out, which by the way, are we going to cover that album? I feel like that might be fun. Is it out? Is it all right? Like when does it come? Like I... It's out in April, I think. Oh, okay. Yeah. You know what? Like, we've said this on a previous episode that his tickets to my downfall, his previous album, is one of the most important rock albums of the past several years. If you look at like the longitudinal trends and particularly with like pop punk making a comeback and Machine Gun Kelly elevating himself from like a, a.

bottom of the poster, like beefing with Eminem but not really type due to a, like a mega celebrity. That is an important album. Therefore, as a hasher out of trends, we got to cover the machine. Unless like something more, unless an album we actually like comes out. Well, you know, who knows? That album might be good. I don't know.

The returns are promising from Emo Girl and like the one he did with Little Wayne. Well, the controversy, which we haven't gotten to. Yeah, because, well, controversy and air quotes was, he released the album cover for mainstream sellout. It shows him on the cover being, there's tomatoes being thrown at him. And Rolling Stone decided that this cover, because of the floating tomatoes on the cover, was too similar to the cover of Jubilee, the 2021 record by Japanese Breakfast. Which had Persimmons on the cover.

Yes, Persimins on the cover, which are floating around her. They're not being thrown at her. It's this more sort of ethereal image of her. in a area of floating persimmons. Very underrated fruit, by the way. Whereas Machine Gun Kelly is being accosted by tomatoes on his cover. There was about a controversy for about 15 minutes about whether Machine Gun Kelly had ripped off Japanese breakfast.

I'm curious whether he had ever actually heard Japanese breakfast before this thing happened. I'm going to say there's like a one in 100 chance that he had actually heard Jubilee before this thing blew up. Maybe he was more of a little big league fan, but no, he actually has heard it now. There was a tweet after the fact that he listened, him like Megan Fox, listened to the album and they really like it. And, you know, like good for Japanese breakfast. It's good to see, you know, these undercover, you know, obscure bands finally get a bump after, you know, after toiling and obscured.

I'm joking, but like. Yeah, Michelle, Michelle's honor, it's good for her to get some press. And of course, they asked Michelle. what she thought about this. And she, of course, said, I don't think he's ripping me off. And she laughed it off, which was the right reaction. I mean, this reminded me a little bit of the Mitzki, MacDamarko, be the cowboy controversy of 2018.

That one of my favorite, like, one of my favorite non-stories. Like, because this would, because this suggested, like, MacDamarko, I don't know, like, pays attention to, like, the news or, like, anything beyond, like what's going on in front of him. That was like a, that was like a, in reality, though, that's like a real historical marker because Mac DeMarco was like beloved. And once that happened, like that kind of set the course for Mac DeMarco to be like, not like pre-cancellation aerial pink, but like, you know, Mac DeMarco's stock is tanked in that time since.

You think so? I mean, I still feel like there's a lot of people that are into DeMarco. out there. He hasn't put out a record in a while. Was that his last record? Here comes the cowboy. You're going to have to ask somebody else. I'm pretty sure that's his most recent record. I would expect him maybe to announce an album for 2022. You might have gotten waylaid by the whole COVID thing. Didn't want to put a record during the pandemic. But yeah, here comes the cowboy. It came out in 2019. That, oh my God, that can't possibly be true. That feels like we're in this like where 2018 and 2019 feel like way further in the past than 2012.

Yeah, the COVID situation just mess with everyone's sense of time because the rituals that we go through every year were put on hold for a while. So I think we all lost track of where we were. Anything that is like quote unquote Trump era like that, like that we're going to need to do like probably in July because that's when there's usually like a week or two where no albums come out or you have to like do a preemptive like conceptual 10 year anniversary for albums that came out in 2018. Yeah, you know, it's interesting you bring that up because I I've been thinking lately about

resistance era art. Oh man. And like how that's going to age. And I, you know, because people talk about the Obama era like Obama era cringe pop culture, you know, Hamilton, Parks and Recreation, all that stuff. I think resistance era is. is going to, there's going to be some embarrassed people. Already.

Yeah, it already seems embarrassing. Yeah. But like in 10 years, when they do the documentaries about how people responded in art and in the media, someone posted the other day some screenshots of reviews of the movie Joker. That was in 2019, where there was like all this fear that this movie was going to cause, you know, an army of crazy. you're approaching a real off ramp right here. Well, I mean, can we say that the reaction in that movie was like, like, way over the top?

Yeah. Like, I mean, I understand where it was coming from. It was a weird time, but that's the kind of stuff that, like, right-wingers would talk about in the 90s. Pop culture, you know, playing video games or something would inspire violence. And now it's coming from the other side. I don't know. I just say those takes are not going to age well. I think people are going to look back on that and go.

I think we already are But like the Joker for the most part Has like just inspired memes or whatever In the same way like Doom and Wolfenstein In the 90s inspired like I don't know Samples on Smashing Pumpkin's record so Yeah Joker to me it it seems like the idea of it is so funny Yeah that I can't take it seriously

I can't ever think of any moment where that movie seemed threatening Because it just seems so transparently silly But anyway Indie cast has been Joker-pilled That's the takeaway. I wasn't expected to talk about Joker going into this episode. You know what it seems even farther away than 2018 or 2019? 2017.

And that's the last time there was an arcade fire record. That can't possibly be true. Like we talk about them on every other episode. Well, we're talking about them now because, and we're going to miss this, this song is already going to be out by the time this post, but they are debuting their new single Thursday afternoon. So again, out in the indie community, don't you know that we record Indycast Thursday morning? If you're going to drop a single, drop it Thursday morning or even better Wednesday afternoon so Ian and I can absorb it.

You're missing the Indycast bump by releasing your single after we record. Yeah, the Indycast bump is real. Exactly. We're going to have to wait a whole week now before we could talk about this song. If we even remember it. We've probably have forgotten it by then. I mean, you know, March 25th is our next show. after this one, that seems like, you know, Blade Runner, you know, in the future, although

like Blade Runner's in the past now compared to where we are. I don't know. The fact that, like, to this day, we can still, like, bring up deep cuts from everything now or, like, the last muse album. Leads me to believe that, like, we are not at all done with whatever will come from the new Arcade Fire song. Are we at a point right now, though, where, like, people are maybe, like, kind of tired of picking on them and might be willing to like overrate them now well i was going to ask you this like are are we an indecast are we cheering for the arcade fire album to be great or for it to be bad like what is better for our show either like if they make a comeback or if we can take some shots at arcade okay so i think here's my prediction like and this is based on absolutely nothing

i've not heard the songs or anything like that i get a feeling we are like headed to to David Frick, four and a half stars, like Rolling Stone reviews this album four weeks ahead of everyone else, a la Reflector happening. I think that, like, the lead single, I think people are ready to have a positive reaction

if this song is any good at all. I think that there's maybe like a resurgence of people caring about indie rock, and so, like, this is like a real place to stake once claim. I'd love for it to be good. I'd rather have a good arc. I've had bad arc.

Kate Fire albums and that was not pleasing at all. Yeah, I'm ready for a good one again. I think I'm with you because, you know, I don't have any good quips after the Everything Now album cycle. I mean, that really that really exhausted the supply of quips because there was a lot of

things to make fun of on that album cycle and yeah, it would be great if, you know, we got Animal Collective back this year. Father John Misty, maybe people are ready to like, you know. He's coming, Boy, what a repudiation of the, of 2017-18 of Father John Misty and Arcade Fire are all of a sudden like A-listers again. Well, I think Father John Misty's still an A-lister.

I mean, I think they're both A-lister's. I mean, in the sense of like narrative. I suppose. But I don't know. Father John Misty, well, we'll talk about him in a few weeks. I'm excited to talk about Father John Misty. I'm excited to hear what you have to say. I'm excited to be mad about it.

Let's get to our mailbag segment and I want to thank you all for writing in. You can hit us up at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. I should acknowledge that we got some placebo blowback this week. How much of it was from the actual ban placebo? Well, I don't know. I mean, maybe placebo has some placebo heads that they've weaponized against us. But in our mailbag and also on Twitter, heard from some placebo supporters saying that,

We were overly dismissive of the catalog. I heard one person say that, like, the first four albums are worth listening to. I heard another person say that only the first record, which is before without you, I'm nothing. Yeah, the self-title. It's the one. The self-title. They were like, that's the real shit. I've heard that one.

I heard various things. So various complaints out there in the placebo community. We're not going to read a letter from a placebo fan, but I just wanted to acknowledge we hear you. we've received your feedback. We'll try to do better. Hashtag do better. But yeah, for now, I don't know. I guess we'll just say we're undecided on placebo.

How about that? We'll be a little less definitive. I disagree. I'm very decided about placebo. Oh, I am too, but I was just trying to be magnanimous. Oh, man. Okay, of all the words that you've, like, mispronounce in past episodes, you like nail Magnanimus on the first try.

Hey, man. I'm winning this episode. All right. I'm winning this episode. Don't bring up the past. Don't bring up the past. Let's talk about placebo albums from 1998. Do you want to read our listener question? I feel like this one's kind of aimed that aimed in our direction. So this comes from Tyler from Seattle, Washington. Pretty big Pearl Jam Town. My question revolves around brackets. It's almost time for bracket season, aka that's happening today, where every publication, creates March Maddo-style brackets for all sorts of pop culture ephemera. So I wanted to ask you to give me the number one seeds for a bracket we would fill out for the most on-branded indie cast bands.

Just like March Madness, there will be four number one seasons. Feel free to mix in as many college basketball references possible. I have no knowledge of your level of college basketball familiarity. So I'm dying to hear where you go with this. I mean, we're talking like contemporary college basketball because I have no familiarity at all other than what I hear on sports podcasts. Like I know that Gonzaga is the team to beat this year, although they are often, you know, in the tournament, they make it to the end. Have they actually won a title? They have not.

They always come up short. Yes. The knock on them is that they're in a weak division. Yeah. And once they get in the tournament, competition is too stiff. They can't win five. That's kind of an Indycast sort of thing. thing, you know, to be like a band that just never can quite reach the top.

Lots of potential. Yeah. But yeah, you can't make it to the end. So let's start with the obvious ones first. I think that you and I would both agree Wild Pink. Yeah. They are a consensus number one seed. Let's put them in the, they're Florida bands.

We'll put them in like the southeast bracket. Yeah, the southeast bracket, let's say. Can we agree on gang of youths being? Gang of Youth is like, I mean, we are talking about like the soul of indie cast right here. I mean, because there's like the soul of Indycast, but there's like the on-brand stuff. I think Gang of Youth is both. Yeah, so they're number one seed. They're originally from Australia.

Dave now lives in England, so I... West. Yeah. Let's call it the North East. We're going to call it the West. We were saying in Australia or we're saying England. We'll call it the Western bracket. All right, fine.

We're saying in the Western bracket. Those are the two obvious ones. I think much like college basketball in 2022, there's a lot of parody after that. Astute, the intersection of pop culture and sports. No other podcast is doing that. While picking gang of youths, probably Gonzaga in Arizona this year, you know, we can analogize it to that. After that, I think it breaks down a little bit. I mean, do you have another number one that you think would be an obvious consensus?

Yeah, so, I mean, again, if we're talking about like what's on brand, for us, that opens it wide open because, I mean, we get, look, Stranda Oaks is like the genesis of Indycast. Right. Like Tim once compared us to the Stockton and Malone of music criticism, which was a compliment,

but like, kind of not really because John Stockton is a Gonzaga grad and he can't go to, like, their games because he's got extremely problematic anti-vaxed. It's a limited analogy. It's not, it's not every aspect of their characters. He's just talking about. It's like even worse.

Well, yeah. Well, you're, I was going to say you're calm alone, but I don't know if it's better to be Stockton. Yeah, they're both like really awful. Like their personal section of their Wikipedia is just like a parade of awfulness. But, yeah, like Strando Oaks, I mean, they make songs. They make like Heartland rock songs from Philadelphia about listening to Smashing Pumpkins. Like that is like the, that is like the Indycast brand right there.

So he's in Philadelphia or he was. He's in Texas now. Which even more so, yeah. But we'll put him in the eastern bracket. So he's the third number one. The fourth number one, I think. Incubis or muse? I mean, like.

Well, I was going to say deaf tones would be in the conversation. War on drugs are in the conversation. Foxing would be in the conversation. The world is a beautiful place. Well, this is just like on brand like me stuff here. You know what I just? Well, yeah, that's all on brand. brand for you. You know, I just actually

had a flash of inspiration. I know what the fourth number one seed is. It's St. Vincent. Yeah, it has to be. St. Vincent is the fourth seed. Yeah. The fourth number one seed. And she is in New York.

Yeah. So I guess we'll put her in the Midwest. We'll put her in the Midwest bracket. She'll play in Milwaukee. But yeah, it's St. Vincent. So we got Wild Pink, Gang of Youths, Strand of Oaks. This could have been. in its entire episode because like we got to talk about like how you know like we got

there's two of bands two of bands yeah two too too how many of bands are there in the world and we have two of them in our bracket that's pretty amazing yeah we got to like you know throw me like young jesus into the sleeper five seed yeah like lada del ray is like the kind of blue blood number three like you know how UCLA or like Kentucky always gets overseeded I mean that I guarantee that if we've gotten an IndyCAS bingo, we will get an IndyCast bracket happening sooner rather than later from our Intrepid fans. That'd be fun.

Man, I can't believe I didn't think of St. Vincent before the show. It seems so obvious to me, and I think she would actually win the tournament. Because this is a show that runs on Discourse. St. Vincent is, she just gives and gives and gives. Arcade Fire, though, coming up in the ranks. I'm excited about that. Well, 1975, we didn't mention 1975. Oh, God. Yeah, that right there.

Oh, man. We could really spend like five episodes hashing this one out. We could, or we could get to the meat of our episode. All right, fine. Which, you know, we're coming in at just under a half hour. That's not too bad for us. Yeah.

Getting to the meet. We're talking about the Indycast Hall of Fame. Now, we talked earlier about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, very polarizing organization. People can't agree. I want rock and roll means. who do you put in. Indicast's Hall of Fame, it couldn't be clearer. Clear cut.

There's no think pieces about why we're ruining ourselves or why we're irrelevant. People know what this thing is. We're talking about records that Ian and I love, that we feel like don't get enough credit conversation. So we're putting them into the discourse. We're putting them into the conversation. No dilution of the brand here. It only makes us stronger. So we are each inducting two records into the,

Indicast Hall of Fame, I think our audience is dying to know who we're going to be talking about. So why don't you go first? What is your first inductee? All right. So this is a band called Aerogram and the album is A Story in White. This came out in 2001.

They're a Scottish band that was like kind of in the orbit of like Maguire and Arab strap and all those bands from Scotland that were kind of getting big in the late 90s. And you know, just being friends with that kind of band was the sort of thing that could get you a deal on Maddador at that point. This is a record that like I had no real context to understand. I think I bought it because I saw an entertainment review,

Entertainment Weekly review, which you know with Entertainment Weekly no longer in print this sort of thing, you know, RIP to that. So this record is one of my favorite examples of what I like to call covert emo ops, which is to say that it is a record that is clearly like emo or post hardcore, but the context of the time

ensured that it wasn't seen that way, because you know, it was compared to Maguire or Godspeed, you black emperor, or these like orchestral Scottish bands. I know Godspeed you black emperor isn't Scottish. They aren't, are they Scottish? I don't know. But, no, they're from Montreal. But

either way, they have like they're very like they have very very loud scathing screaming parts but also like really really pretty quiet like feedback laced parts and you know if we're going back to a few weeks back where we talked about all music guide the surprise in the in the in the in the in the in the in the row of surprisingly negative all music

guide reviews they compared this album to mineral as like a negative thing um but so this record is one that I listened to a lot, like in, but it was like sharing CDs based with like Bleed American and is this it? Like this really weird obscure indie rock record in a time of like super popular pop rock. And, you know, like I would see it every, they continue to make records that were, you know, not quite as strong throughout the 2000s. And it would be like a bat signal of sorts.

I've like, you know, guys from like the world's a beautiful place were super into it. I think some of the guys from Foxing championed it as well. And it kind of fell off the map because it wasn't on streaming. But it also has an another interesting sort of twist to it in that one of the guys in this band ended up starting the band Churches, which is as emblematic of the shift in 2013 from indie rock becoming pop. as you could possibly make because another guy in that band was in the Twilight Sad, another personal favorite of mine. And their whole deal with churches was like, yeah, we got tired of playing loud, sad

music for people staring at their feet. So we embraced pop. And lo and behold, that was the story of indie rock writ large. I wonder if that's swinging back. I wonder if those same people now are going to be like, we made pop music for a while, but now we want to make sad music for people. I mean, I feel like we're moving into that period. Yeah.

You know, the one thing I could say about churches to their credit, and it's a band I really still like their first record, they invited American football to be an opening act for them in L.A., so they definitely carry some, like, emo in their DNA. This, I mean, I don't expect this record to, like, make some sort of comeback or be this bedrock. of a new form of emo, but I mean, if this came out today, it would definitely be on like top shelf records or something like that. If you like more of like the screaming post-hardcore stuff combined with like the, we're going to have a song, that's just the violin. If you like my recommendation corner stuff,

like this is like formative material. So for my first inductee, I was thinking about our conversation earlier about the Indycast bracket, the Indycast bands. One band that we didn't mention was Deer Hunter. I feel like we've talked a lot about Deer Hunter on this show.

And of course, Deer Hunter, when they were at their peak, which was really like the late odds to the early 2010s. I know that there's some super fans out there who insist that they never faded away. I tweeted about this recently that I was hoping for a deer hunter

comeback. And a lot of people were saying, they never went away. They're still great. They've gone away for three years. Well, and also, I guess I remember the time in the late odds in early 2010s, where Deer Hunter, every record felt like an event. And not only that, but there were lots of side projects from Deer Hunter that got a lot of attention.

And one of those side projects I want to talk about now, which is Lotus Plaza's spooky action at a distance. Yes. Came out in 2012. And I know that you're excited about this because, as you probably remember, Ian, you gave this best new music. I did. For pitchfork. I forget that sometimes. And when I decided to induct this record into the Indycast Hall of Fame, I didn't realize that the 10-year anniversary of this album is right on the horizon. It came out in early April. So we're not that far from the anniversary. I don't know if there's going to be any think pieces about this record. I think it's pretty well regarded,

especially among people who love Deer Hunter, but I still feel like it's maybe not as remembered as I think it should be. Yeah, I think this is like the peak of its 10-year anniversary cottage industry. Yeah, that's right. We're bringing Lotus Plaza back here on NadiCast. I have to say that as much as I love Deer Hunter, and especially records like Halcyon Digest and Microcastle, this album is probably the one I listen to the most.

I think I listen to this album more than any Deer Hunter record, basically because it's a side project by Lockett Punt. He's the guitar player in the band. For Halcyon Digest, he famously wrote the song Desire Lines, which I have said on occasion is my favorite indie rock song of the 2010s. This record, Spooky Action in a Distance, it's basically a whole album of Desire Lines, or songs that sound like Desire Lines, or songs that sound like the last three minutes of Desire Lines where it just drones out on this gorgeous dream pop coda. That's what this album is. And if you are a sucker for that, this is really, I think, one of the great kind of dream pop albums that have come out in the last 10 years.

And it's sad to me because, you know, as deer hunters become less prolific, Lotus Plaza seems like it's also been put out to pasture. This is the last full-length record that Lockett Punt made under this name. He put out an EP the following year, but there hasn't been a new Lotus Plaza record in a while. And I know I personally would love to hear this come back because it just reminds me of an era in indie rock where Deer Hunter was this group. I guess we've made this comparison before on the show

to Big Thief. But I think Big Thief is having a similar moment now where their albums are very well received in the indie community. And also you have members making really great records on the side. The year before Spooky Action at a Distance came out, Bradford Cox, the leader of Deer Hunter, put out a record called Parallax. Ah, Atlas Sound.

Yes, with his side project Atlas Sound, and that's a great record. And there's other great Atlas Sound records. Yeah. And I don't want to say that Spooky Action at Distance is the pinnacle of this, but it does come near the end of this great period for Deer Hunter. The year after Spooky Action at a Distance came out, you had the album Monomania by Deer Hunter, which is a record I like a lot.

but to me it's like the last Deer Hunter record so far that I really, really love. Like Bating Frontier. I read that best new music as well, huh? Oh, there you go. Again, you know, we were talking about how distant 2018 and 2019 feel. 2012 feels like a really long time ago. But this album, I think, really holds up. And it's a reminder of, again, this great era, I think, in indie rock where Deer Hunter was a really important band.

and it was coming at the end of that kind of indie rock getting the attention we're sort of at the center of the conversation. Yeah, I think each year is more defined by it's like number 36 year end list album than like it's number four sometimes and it's like this is the kind of album

that would fill the middle of a year end list. And you know, I like this album a lot as well. It just, I'm struck by how, unassuming it is like it doesn't sound like a big deal at all it's just like locket punt is looping pedals and making very pretty dream pop songs where i don't know any of the lyrics to this day but it just yeah it's it's one that i i find easier to listen to than say like halcyon digest which is like this big um you know cathartic uh outpouring and this one's just like yeah i feel like it's like i i see it similar to like the dive album from that year, let's say, which is, that's a compliment too.

So lock it, man. What the fuck are you doing? Yeah, man. I'm with you on the unassuming nature of the record, but I do think that's part of the charm. Yeah. Along with the songwriting. Songwriting is just great. I mean, they're just really great songs, strangers, eveningness, remember the days, out of touch, one banger after another.

Jet out of Tundra. We love us some Lotus Plaza here. Absolutely. So what is your next nominee inductee into the Indycast Hall of Fame? Yeah, I'm like shocked that like I got to this one before you did. So it's similar to like Aerogram. I believe this one came out in 2001. In June, I'm flying to Virginia for our 20th anniversary of my 20th college reunion.

So after booking that flight, it became like nostalgic from my. for albums of that era. And I don't know what inspired me to put on Pete Yorne's music for the morning after. I remember kind of liking that album when it came out. Like I burnt a copy from the college radio station because we played Life on a Chain. And I really like for Nancy as well. I vaguely remember him being involved in the me, myself, and Irene soundtrack. Like, that was his big break.

And, you know, I think we played strange condition as well, which, I know this is like a side note, but I just got to bring this up that I remember reading in like 2006 this article in Paste magazine where they had like this ex con who's like a songwriter. And the first thing out of this person's mouth in this article is it is like mocking Pete Yorn's strange condition for a day in prison. I got to read this. It's like if I hear Pete Yorne equate his strange condition to a day in prison one more time, I swear I'm going to ring his. scrawny neck. A day in prison, I bet you he couldn't even survive at night in jail. Yeah. Pete Yorn, notoriously pretty guy. Take him to the woodshed over that line, man.

He's like, well, I guess it's probably true. Probably wouldn't want to go to prison, but, you know, who does? I just think it's so sad how, like, I remember these extremely minuscule beefs from, like, guitar world and, like, paste, whereas, like, I can't remember what happened, like, two days ago. But anyway, like, so I remember, like, in a few songs, and he kind of, like, dipped out of the public eye. I think he made a record with Scarlett Johansson once. And I just sort of filed that, this guy away with, like, you know, room for squares or, like, a Grant-Lee Phillips solo album or, you know, the really, like, slick L.A. parts of Ryan Adams gold or Elliott Smith's figure eight that I don't think of aged well. But, you know, it was a really nice day outside.

I decide, you know, like, I'm just going to give this a spin. And holy shit, like, this record's really good. Not only is it, like, strong as far as the songwriting goes, but it sounds super modern. I'm shocked at how indie rock it was. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, Murray's kind of like a pre, like a Strokes era pop song. Like, Black is almost like Interpol, but like before Interpol. Like, it sounds like, you know, major label Interpol in a good way.

There's some of that, like, DreamWorks record style. like electronic singer-songwriter stuff that's always in vogue. I feel like this could come out in 2022 as kind of like a rootsy hymbo-LA version of a polished singer-songwriter album. I'm just, I mean, I feel as if you're going to like hit me off with like Pete your knowledge about like how his next few records are still pretty good.

I was going to say, day I forgot, really good album. That's the record after music for the morning after. Music after music for the morning after. He should have called it that. He should have kept building on that song title, on that album title. His third record, Nightcrawler, that's another good record. There's a song that was on the Spider-Man soundtrack or Spider-Man 2 soundtrack called Under the Cover. He also covers Splendid Out Isolation, which is one of my favorite Warren Zvon songs on that record.

I remember interviewing Pete Yorn when I was working at my hometown paper in 2002. and it was for this record. And we talked about Bruce Springsteen and guided by voices because he said that those were the two biggest influences going into that record. So I was just like, yeah, Pete Yorne, you're my man. Yeah. I love this record.

He was on Celebration Rock, RIP. So he gets the Celebration Rock bump as well as the Indicast bump. Sleeper Sixth seed in the Indicast bracket. Yeah, Pete Yorn. Yeah, this is a record. It gets slept on, but it's a really good record. And like you say, it holds up really well. Way better than shit from that era.

Yeah, good production. It's like pretty homemade. I think it's him and R. Walt Vincent recorded most of the instruments on that record. So it feels like a little lo-fi, but it has like a big label budget. So it splits the difference there really well. Yeah, Pete Yorn, Music for Morning After. I'm proud of you for picking that album. That is like more of a me pick than a you pick.

So I'm happy about that. my inductee, my last inductee in this class is, I can safely say this is one of the most listened to albums of my life. I've listened to this album as much as almost any other record, and it's because it's one of my favorite albums to write to. This album always puts me in a great headspace of just having ideas, being creative, being in a sort of meditative state that you need to be in if you're going to write something for a long period of time. and it's by a group, I don't know where they stand in 2022. I don't know if people remember them or if they're still in the conversation or not, but I think they should be in the conversation. I'm talking about the French duo Air.

And their record, Takiwaki, which came out in 2004. Air, of course, this is a duo, Nicholas Godin and Jean-Bunet Dunkel. I'm sure I got the pronunciation of both of those exactly correct. Nailed it. They're probably best known for their first record. came out in 1988. It's called Moon Safari. I think that record's pretty well regarded.

They did the soundtrack to Sophia Coppola's The Virgin Suicides. That's a really great record, too. I think people know that album. I think after that, knowledge of air records falls off a bit. They put out 10,000 Hertz Legend in 2001, which is... Woof. See, I'm going to defend that record. I think it's like a really interesting 70s Prague Rock type record.

Moon Safari, I think, established a reputation for them making, this is a term that people used at the time, Bachelor pad music, this sort of like retro 60s sounding vibe creating type stuff. Whereas with 10,000 Hertz legend, they were moving in more of a sinister direction. A lot of like robot voices on that record. It's an interesting record that is like seen as underrated because like, you know, it's not as praises previous stuff. And when I listen, I'm like, yeah, this shit isn't good. It's like M83's junk of its time. No way, no way. It's good record. But Takiwaki is the record that comes after 10,000 Hertz Legend. And to me, I think it's the best air record. It's less retro. It's more mature.

It has some of the best sounding keyboard and synth sounds I've ever heard on a record. Yes, Nigel Godrich, of course, coming in on the co-production. He is a master of instrumental tones. I think even beyond the songwriting, which I think is top shelf throughout the record, this is such a pleasurable record to listen to on headphones. It just feels like your brain being put into a warm bath and being gently massaged by the best masseuse artist who's ever worked on your brain before. It's so good. But the songs themselves, I think, have a real melancholy to them.

It's not just about vibe. It's about setting a tone that, in a lot of it was, I wondered to what degree they were influenced by lost in translation. Yeah, you can't talk about this record without bringing that part up. Because it has a similar feel of melancholy to that. There's a sense of isolation, I think, in these songs, of missing something that's no longer there. Which, along with, again, just the beauty of the music

and the loveliness of how everything sounds, that emotional undercurrent really, I think, gives this album an extra dimension that the other era records, as much as I love them, they don't feel quite as deep to me as this record. I think that's why I keep returning to it. And I have to say just in general, air,

you know, for those who don't know this band, I really feel like those first four albums, you know, they're output from 98 to 2004, I'll put that up against anyone from that era. I think that's a really strong run. After that, they start to fall off. I feel like the records start to get a little samey, maybe a little wallpapery, you know, after that. But those first four, and there's like an EP or two in there as well.

Yeah, Premier Symptoms. That's one I really like as well from. That's great too. It's like pre-moon safari. Right. That was like their singles, I think, before that record. Definitely bought that at the UVA bookstore. So, yeah, Takiwaki though, again, a little under, I think a little overlooked when people talk about air.

air in general seems a little overlooked, but go back to this album, go back to this band. I think there's a lot of great music there. I like this record a lot too. The production is just fantastic. Like you said, it's more of like a singer-songwriter record than, you know, like Moon Safari, which could be a little bit, you know,

like tied to its era. And yeah, like, the thing about like air is that in a lot of ways they are very contemporary because like what are they? But they're a vibe band. but at the same time, they are also kind of locked into that, especially with like Lost in Translation, I know that's like a movie.

That's like quite problematic in a lot of ways. And so being tied to that sort of like 2004 style of indie rock is, it's a little tough to square that with the current day. But yeah, if Air were like a new band doing exactly the same thing, I think they would be really well regarded, which makes it kind of ironic that they're, see you know not really talked about a heck of a lot yeah i mean i think if you love beach house oh yeah definitely be an air fan if you aren't already uh because they're definitely i think laying

the groundwork for what beach house is going to be doing you know they don't have a vocalist as striking as victoria le grand is but i think musically speaking it's hitting a lot of the same notes uh just several years uh before beach house got together so four albums of the indicass Hall of Fame. Hopefully no one will bow out. No one is going to recuse their nomination. I think it's a good class. Yeah, I think it's a good class. Like Pete Yorne, look, I know you're a humble dude, but like,

just take this W. We've now reached the part of our episode called Recommendation Corner, where Ian and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, once you go first? I want to talk about an album, like we talked about the Arcade Fire album, which, or the Arcade Fire song, which has not yet been released.

By the time this episode drops, there will be a new Oso Oso album called Sore Thumb coming out. I do a profile with Jade at Stereogum, and we talk about him gambling on simulated NCAA March Madness 2004 mascot games. It's a very much intersection of sports and pop culture interview. But this record was put together. like he recorded a bunch of demos with his cousin and songwriting partner, Tavish Maloney.

And a month after they were done, Tavish unfortunately passed away at the age of 24. And so what Jade decided to do was basically put out the album as is. Like these are the demos. They've been mixed and mastered by Mike Supone, who did Basking in the Globe. But it's basically everything that they did during that month in the studio. The influences on this album, he talked about cake and Fountains of Wayne, so it's got kind of that late 90s alt-rock sheen to it, but, you know, still the classic emo power pop songwriting chops that he flexed on Unahan mixtape and Bassi and The Glow as well. If you like Oso Oso, I think this one will be pleasing, but it's also scrappier in a way that's very interesting as well. Plus it's got like a really poignant story to it.

I'm excited to see people react to a surprise drop Oso Oso album. Yeah, I'm excited to dig into that album. Definitely like the other Oso Oso records. Very easy band to like. I want to plug something that I wrote this week. I did an interview with Dan Behar of Destroyer ahead of the next Destroyer record coming out next week, Labyrinthitis.

And I'll just say, because I'm not going to talk about it next week, I don't think. That's a really great record. It's in the same vein of the last two, destroyer records. He had Ken in 2017 and you had We Met in 2020 working with more of like a synthy sound, kind of like a sinister, new wave inspired type music. And he, I think, really reaches the pinnacle of this new phase of his career on this upcoming record next week, Labyrinthitis. It's probably the most danceable record that Destroyer's ever made. What's the second most danceable Destroyer record? Well, you know, you could probably slow danceable.

the kaput. But it's a very upbeat record. And again, you know, just, it was funny talking to him because he likened one song to Romstein, the famous German industrial act, which is a comparison I think that would only occur to him. But I understand what he means when he listened to the record because there's a real sort of dark edge to like a lot of the synth sounds. There's a lot of sort of upbeat and in your face type beats on the record. And of course, you have Dan Behar crooning in a very luring way, writing terrific lyrics that don't quite make sense

but put images in your mind that you can't get out. And I really feel like Destroyer, you know, we're at the point now like where the first Destroyer record came out in 96, so over 25 years. And I don't think he's made a bad record. I think he's made records that were less successful than others, but he's always doing interesting stuff. He's changed throughout his career.

he really has a body of work, I think, that you could put toe to toe with any of the great sort of indie rock legacy acts that we have working right now. I have to say, too, that Behar, this is the fourth time I've interviewed him, he's like one of my favorite people to talk to. He's super funny. He's very funny. It's funny because we were talking about his image as this curmudgeon. Right. Pitchfork recently called him Indy Rock's most lovable curmudgeon, which he didn't really take that as a compliment. So we talked about that, but I love talking with him because he has a very dry sense of humor.

We talked about the Van Morrison COVID album, which is fun. All different places. It's a really fun interview, I think, and it's also, I think, a good primer for the album. Before you listen to it, you might want to read his thoughts on it. I think it really sets the stage for what he's doing. But yeah, I always love talking to Behar. Always a pleasure. He was also a celebration rock guest, so got a shout about for that.

He passed the five album test. Absolutely. And he might do it in a couple different eras of his career, actually. I think you could look at his pre-Cupot era and post-Ca-put era and make five album runs in there. You know, Trouble in Dreams might be a curveball. Yeah, a little overlooked. I mean, rubies. Fuck, I love the rubies. Oh, you can't say enough good things about rubies. But yes, please check that out on uprocks.com. It should be up by the time. this episode airs. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast. We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter.

You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.