Indiecast - Interpol, Plus: Black Midi, '90s Band Reunions, And An Unexpected Descendents T-Shirt

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

It seems a lot of early '00s bands have been rolling out music lately. Recently, we've gotten new material by The Mars Volta, Wilco, and Arcade Fire, but the list truly goes on. Now, Interpol is the latest early aughts icon to release a new project with their seventh studio album The Other Side of Make-Believe. On this week's Indiecast episode, hosts Steven Hyden and Ian Cohen discuss the band's legacy and how their new music compares to their early catalog (33:13).This week also had a few headline-worthy indie news stories. Lana Del Rey went public with her new boyfriend Jack Donoghue, who happens to be in the witch house band SALEM (1:38), prompting the question: "How the hell did those two meet?" Perhaps the most baffling news this week came from the January 6th hearings, where an ex-member of far-right group The Oathkeepers wore a Descendents t-shirt while testifying. Of course, Descendents were quick to distance themselves from the organization (6:57).The Recommendation Corner (50:26) this week has Ian revisiting The Blood Brothers discography while Steven shouts out the new album by Nightlands, the instrumental side project of The War On Drugs' Dave Hartley.New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 97 and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprocks's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show, we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, we discuss the new album by Interpol. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host. He wore a foxing shirt to the January 6th hearing. Ian Cohen.

Ian, how are you? Yeah, you know, not to pull a rage against the machine and like start talking politics to our listeners out of nowhere. but, you know, if the winds of fate put me on TV representing some sort of alt-right group, I'm wearing a proto-martre t-shirt, you know, it's revenge for that song they wrote about me. I'm just, like, that is like the single most effective way to, like, get a band on Twitter and start disavowing their fan base. A little sciops there on your part, if you're going to be doing that.

I am playing the long game. That'd be amazing. Before we get to the January 6th hearing, because we are going to be talking about that a little bit in this episode, we got to talk about the biggest indie news of the week. If not the year. If not the year. It's for all you lovers out there. All of you romantic people, you know, times are hard right now. You're looking for a little romance in the world.

Something to reassure you that love is alive and that beautiful things can still happen. and that happened this week because we found out that Lana Del Rey, the queen of Indy Rock, if we can call her that, we'll call her the Grand Madam of Indy Rock. Much better title. Yes, she is dating this dude. Not just any dude. This dude from Salem. Yes. Not the town Salem.

The goth, doom, hip-hop group from the early 2010s. I don't know if, are they still putting on record? We talked about them recently, fairly recently on the show. Because there was, did they put out new music, or was it just talking about, like, their Fader Fort anniversary? They have yet to, I think, remark upon the Fader Fart incident, which I think is still their definitive work. But they put it out a new album.

It was either towards the end of 2021 or 2020. but like fairly recently. Yes. They put out a new record and it was not bad. But yeah, so you said Jack Donahue, like the obvious joke is like, oh, I thought it was like Jack Donagie hitting Landa Del Rey. And if like 30 Rock had made it to 2011, that would totally be a plausible plot line. See, I didn't even call him Jack Donahue. I just called him the dude from Salem because it's kind of like, you know, like the dude from Eve Six.

Like you don't need to know the name. It's this, he's the dude. Max Collins. Yeah, but you say Max Collins, most people, they give you a blank stare. You say the dude from E.6, you're like, okay, I know what you're talking about. Like, Jack Donahue. I didn't know his name was Jack Donahue. I just knew he was like a dude from Salem.

Yeah. But yeah, but yeah, Jack Donagie dating Landa Del Rey. That would have been an amazing plotline on 30 Rock if that could have happened. But this is an even more amazing plotline for us on Indycast. You got Salem. You have Lana Del Rey. I don't know if any details have come out about how this happened. In my mind, it's like a when Harry met Sally situation where like maybe they met each other at South by Southwest in the early 2010s.

They became friends. And then maybe over time it blossomed into romance. And that's where we are right now. I mean, do we know anything about how this happened? No. All I saw was like a picture of them outside of like Cook County Jail, which, you know. And like beforehand, like there was a time where I think Lana Del Rey was like dating like a TV cop or something like that. So I figured it's just this dude.

And the most shocking component of it isn't the fact that these two, you know, 2011 era hipster runoff, like throw darts at the wall type people are together. It's what they actually look like. The best part about this is like depending on what like region of the country you live in, there was like a, joke about like who the like what this couple looks like you know compared to who you went to high school with like for me it like jack donahue and i caught like if i didn't know the names of the people in salem i would not be the person i am today but uh he looks like kind of the guys i remember from like i don't know that like a guy from gym class it's like oh yeah that's a guy i only saw in gym class and you know he worked at the pizza joint now he opens a pizza joint and they had like

three kids and they still live in Plymouth meeting Pennsylvania. Like they look like people I saw at like the fucking pizza joint when I went back home. Yeah, like for me, like the dude from Salem, he looks like a guy whose locker would have been next to mine and I would occasionally just see him. Like I would never see him anywhere else in the school, but I'd only see him sometimes next to my locker in our, you know, we'd be friendly, but like we'd never talk. We just kind of give each other like friendly nods every now and then. Like he, like that would be that guy.

And then Lana Del Rey would be like the girl that was, like, she was like maybe one of the prettiest girls in the school. But then she just kind of stayed in the town after high school and just kind of worked locally. And this guy who had the locker next to me, like maybe they just ended up kind of getting together because they were like some of the only people from high school that were still in the same town. So you've written a lot of Del Rey song right there. Like you wouldn't, like they wouldn't have dated in high school. but they end up together like 10 years later because, you know, they're both in the same town and they don't know anyone else. And it's sort of like, okay, well, we might as well date, you know. We have no other options.

That's what it looked like to me. But we're Alana Del Rey-Salem Shipper podcast now. I mean, you mentioned how Lana was dating the TV cop for a while and now she's dating the dude from Salem. I don't want to ascribe cynical motives to her. love life, but are all of her relationships like a low-key troll at this point? I don't know. You could also, our lives are performance art. Let's just like, I think that would be a great Lana Del Rey interview quote that.

Our lives are performance art and everything we do is to be viewed through the prism of this brand that we created for ourselves. And I don't think Indycast is immune from that either. No. And again, God bless her, you know, mid-July is slow. Slow news for us. So it's always great to have Alana Del Rey's story to talk about. Let's get to the January 6th hearing, which I think people have been waiting for us to talk about on this show finally.

But we do have a hook now because this week there was a guy, one of the oath keepers. Did this guy storm the capital? Was he one of the stormers? I don't know exactly the story on the specific guy that we're going to talk about. Oathkeeper to me just sounds like one of those dooms. metal bands. I'm not overly familiar with their work. I get them confused with the promise keepers.

I'm a 90s guy, but they were definitely there. Yeah, they're like the proud boys. Like, they're in that, you know, subgenre of alt-right. They're the French kicks to the interpol of the crowd boys. I don't know. But anyway, this guy who testified at the January 6th hearings, he testified wearing a descendants t-shirt. the descendants, of course, being the legendary SoCal pop punk band.

And he's rep in the descendants at the January 6th hearing. And of course, there was a big outcry on Twitter about this from punk fans who love the descendants. And I think the descendants themselves, they put out a statement disavowing this guy, saying, like, you know, we don't line up with this guy at all. I mean, you and I were talking, we were putting together our outline, and it's funny because you and I have similar experiences with this. You know, I used to be on Facebook, and I'm not anymore, and one of the reasons I'm not is that there were a lot of, like, punk dudes in their 40s and 50s. And, like, punk guys age terribly. Oh, do they ever?

I mean, it might be the worst kind of music fan on the planet, you know, especially the guy. who doesn't have a sense of humor about punk like they still take punk extremely serious in their 40s and 50s and they look at it not just as a kind of music

but like as a lifestyle and there's like this oppositional kind of cranky perspective and it just curdles into something reactionary in middle age and most of the time it's harmless you know like there was this one guy

that I knew on like mainly through Facebook who like would always want to talk to me about Kanye West? Because... They always want to talk about Kanye West. I didn't even think about that, but I do... That's such a common threat.

This is like laid on... They thought to talk about Kanye. This is like the good Kanye. You know, like Kanye was great. And he would want to talk about Kanye because Kanye signified, I think, popular music to him. And he hated popular music.

And then, so he talked about how bad Kanye was and how great teenage bottle rocket was. It was horrible. But, you know, that's relatively harmless. He's not an oath. keeper, you know, but that's kind of like the logical extreme, I feel like, of that worldview. I mean, because what you said? I mean, like, because you've had old punk experience

too, right? I mean, it's a tough crowd. Oh my God, is it a tough crowd? Yeah, I mean, I think of them compared to like the old, you know, the old white hip hop head, like the guy who was super into like Wu Tang or whatever in their like teens and college years and then, you know, they grow up to open a restaurant that has old dirty bastard pictures on the wall. Like, that's, like, corny to me, but, and maybe offensive aesthetically, but it's not, like, it's harmless. But, man, you combine the, like, super idealistic, hardheaded, uh, politics of punk, like, in the youth and also the kind of meathead component to it. And, like, there is, the, the punk rock to, like, alt-right pipeline is so brimming. I mean, um, like, when I listen to No Plus Ones, the podcast with, um,

our pals Dan Ozzie and David Anthony. Like, there's at least 20 minutes talking about, like, what are, what is the guy in the crow mags up to now? And, like, nine times out of 10, it's like anti-vax cancel culture. Like, you couldn't have the six pistols in 2020. Like, so, I mean, that's, that's what it is to me. And, like, God, how fucking demoralizing must it be to, I mean, look, you and I, we, we have some degree of like fans you know we can't control what they do uh but to like you know be uh like a

punk rock band whose politics could not be more fucking obvious you know we mentioned raised against the machine you know uh like how demoralizing must that be well and the descendants are not like a political band like are they a little bit like they had songs like back in the day about like you know Proposition 13 in california okay they're like i mean also they have like you know locker room stuff and like how girls don't like them but like you can assume that they are they're like smart guys like one of them's like a chemist like they're they're political in the sense that like in a similar way to like say bad religion or what have you where you can just assume that they're against suburban conform yeah i guess i just think of them more like you said of being like a goofball

type band you know i don't think of them i mean bad religion to me is like they're more polemical, I think, than the descendants are. Like, you know, bad religion is putting... I feel like they're more explicitly political than the... But I haven't... I mean, I haven't gone deep on the descendants. I mean, they were a band that, you know, growing up in the 90s, if you were interested in punk or indie rock,

like, you would eventually get around to the descendants at some point. And, like, I thought they were a good band. I've not listened to them in a super long time. I do think, even if this guy wasn't an oathkeeper, you know, like a guy in his 50s wearing a Descendant's T-shirt, I think, is kind of a funny thing, just specifically, but I don't know.

We may be stepping on some toes here in our own audience, because you know, this, and we're going to really step on some toes here with our next topic here, and so we'll weigh gently into this. You know, because, look, we respect the 45-year-old indie rock fan.

I think that's been established that we addressed, we addressed directly the 45, year old indie rock fan. I think we service them. A lot of our topics. We sort of are that. Yeah, we are them. We're going to be talking about Interpol in this episode. So obviously, you know, you are our people.

But, you know, we were getting ready to do this episode this week and you were messaging me about possible banter topics. And you were like, you know, unwound and Archers of Lof both announced reunions this week. We should talk about this. And I was like, yeah, we probably should. The problem is, is that I don't give a shit about either

band. Yes, waiting gently that we promised. Pulling the old razzled as the switch or do. I'm not saying

they're bad. You know, I don't have an opinion on them really one way or the other. I know Arches of Loaf a little bit more than unwound,

but I just don't care about either band. I don't have a strong opinion. It's like, you don't either, right? Yeah, I mean, I saw quite a few

of the same type of tweet this past week, which is, you know, the 45-year-old indie rock fans saying how seen they felt by the unwound tour announcement, which that tour seems to be doing pretty damn well. I mean, it's only in a couple cities, but they've sold out. They've had to do like two dates in L.A., two dates in San Francisco, et cetera. And Unwound is the sort of band that I see talked a lot about in circles in which I run.

Like they're one of those bands that was like kind of a big deal in like the late 90s or early 2000s, but have been ignored for the most part by big indie. So now they're like kind of retcon as being possibly emo, that's just what happens to these sort of bands. It's happened a lot with a lot of these indie rock bands. Yeah, like Slint is somehow, emo now, the savvy fave. But yeah, I mean, like, this is maybe like the most controversial opinion I might ever levy on this show. Like, this is basically, like, 1975 level type stuff.

But unwound, I've tried, like, leaves turn inside you. That's the one. That's the one that shows up on year end list. as seen as a masterpiece. One of the most monumentally dull albums, like, I've ever listened to because it showed up on a decade list. It's like, I put it on, I keep

putting it on thinking maybe it'll click, but I just think of like, the most boring parts of Sonic Youth and Slint and Fugazi and, like, Olympia Punk as a whole. And it's, um, I just remember like, it's like, I guess you have to, you had to be there sort of thing,

but I was there, you know? Yeah. This was 2001. And I was like, why would I, like, this is what I think indie rock is. I'm going to go listen to like placebo and cash money and Missy Elliott. Yeah. I was a teen. Unwound turned me into a college age pop to miss. Yeah, there's like a sternness or like a humorlessness that, to that band that it makes

me, it's hard to connect with it for me. And as far as Archers of Loaf go, you know, I used to work at the A.B. Club and there was a strong Arches of Loaf contingent at the A.B. Club when I was there. like people that just looked at like icky metal as being a masterpiece of 90s rock and like people getting excited about like new crooked fingers albums you know treating those like as an event so like I was around that a lot and you know again like I think they're fine I just feel like if you have pavement and guided by voices and built a spill and neutral milk hotel and you know just run down the list of like 90s indie rock It's going to be a while before you get to Arches of Loaf. And I feel like there's just so much other music in that lane that I think is way better and that I care about more. So that just, I don't think they're a bad band. I think they're a good band.

They're a fine band. And look, if you're excited about these comebacks, awesome. I'm happy for you. Go to the show, buy the T-shirt, have a great time. It's going to be awesome. Tip the babysitter some extra money. It's going to be a blast. So, yeah.

I mean, maybe we should just leave it at that. You know, leave it on a positive note. Harness and slums, that's a fucking banger. Is that an Arches of Loaf song? Yes, it's an Arches of Loaf song. Like I said, I'm listening to all these other bands. I've not gone deep on Arches of Loaf. Maybe they're going to hit me at a later date, and I'll eat my words.

Before we get to our mailbag, we should talk for a bit about the new Black Midi album. That's dropping on Friday. Dropping today as this episode post. It's called Hellfire. We didn't put this in the meat of our episode because we're going to be talking about Interpol, but we should talk about this record because this is a band that we both like.

I'm curious, like, I want to hear what you think about this record before I say what I think about this album. I want to see if I'm off base or if maybe we're on the same page here. Yeah, well, first off, I think anytime we talk about Black Middy, you got to mention the fact

the singer's name is Jordy Green. Like, every time I've been following this band for like four years, Every time I see this dude's name, it's like, if you were to have a TV show with like a fake UK post-punk band, like that name would get thrown out of the writer's room for being on the nose. And also just the way he looks. He looks like a total shorty. He looks like what his name sounds like, you know?

It's really unbelievable. Yeah, he is like super on the nose. He is like a walking caricature of UK post-punk, but he's somehow real. Yes. And so, yeah, with this band, it's like, I respect. them, I like their existence because, you know, if we're talking about like 45-year-old indie rock dudes, they remind me of the type of band that you would see like in the mid-2000s or whatever, like that would just kind of annoy the shit out of you, but they would also be like really raved about by indie publications.

And it would be, you know, I'm not saying I like them as much as Animal Collective, but, you know, I'd listen to Animal Collective in 2003. I'm like, what the fuck is this shit? But they were so hyped. I'm like, oh, I'll give it another chance. and end up loving them. So they have that sort of divisiveness, that challenging pretentious nature

that makes them, I don't know, stand out in what's otherwise a pretty agreeable state of big indie. I love their pitchfork performance last year. They had like a couch and like a wardrobe on stage. It was super theatrical. Like I was not expecting that. And so, you know, no matter what they do, regardless of how much like I actually,

I'm going to do in like air quotes here, enjoy their, music. I respect their existence and I trust their trajectory. This one though, like I, I saw stereo gum called it fiery furnaces meets Mr. Bungle. And boy, that is a good piece of music criticism right there because, you know, what I was alluding to before, it's like, yeah, this is kind of like a fiery furnaces type band where, you know, when they get, when they're, when they're, when they go over their skis, they go way the fuck over. And, you know, Cavalcade, uh, Schleck.

Langenheim, you know, at their most pretentious and unwieldy, at least they kind of banged. This one is, uh, yeah, I think they just take this one in directions that are, like, I don't think they fail to pull off what they're trying. It's just like what they're trying isn't maybe worth pulling off. Yeah, yeah, I'd love that fiery furnaces meets Mr. Bungle because that could either be a profound compliment or like the worst thing you could say about a record, depending on your perspective. So it feels very apropos. Yeah, you know, I'm in a similar place to you.

I saw Black Middy live on their first tour when they were touring behind Schlegenheim, saw him like in a small club. And I thought it was awesome. I loved their live show, especially the drummer, super physical drummer, just all over the kit. He was, I just watched that guy most of the shows. It was amazing.

But with this record, I feel like they've crossed a wackiness rubicon where they're moving from like a quirky band like you were saying like a theatrical kind of interesting somewhat confrontational group to just being kind of like an annoying band I mean like this record to me it's just like a little too much to take and I do feel like they started in a place where I watched them and I thought wow these guys this could be like the new king crimson, you know, just like an awesome, aggressive Prague band, just crazy time signature changes, but like a lot of like power behind it. And I just feel like increasingly they're moving in this direction that feels more like a less claypool side project, like not even

primus, but like some like side project where less clay pool is like, I'm going to really less clay pool it up here. Like I'm, I'm going to go full on just whackmeister in this project. And And I just think, you know, again, I'm like you. I like this band generally. I appreciate that there's a group like this that has some prominence that is coloring outside the lines, is doing something very unconventional. I really appreciate that in theory. But I do think it would be nice if someone could sit these lads down and say, you need to tone it down a little bit. You know, we need to settle down and focus on, I think, what the strengths are of this band, which is, again, they're instrumental.

firepower. They're a very powerful band. These guys can play. And I just think that there's a premium being put on in the band for, again, this kind of like wacky sense of humor. You know, Mr. Bungle was mentioned like, it's kind of like a Frank Zappa aspect to a two. And I like Frank Zappa. But I don't know. It was turning me off on this record. I have to say, too, that I wasn't a fan of the pitchfork profile that was published of them. I think that was this week.

We're like the lead singer, he's taking shots at Ed Shearin, which it's like, come on, really? We're like, making fun of, like, we're taking shots at Ed Shearin. And then... Muse and Green Day.

Which, by the way, you don't make fun of Muse on our watch here and get away with it. Our boys and muse. That's our job to make fun of muse. It's not your job. You know, we can make fun of them, but if anyone else does, we will defend Mews to the death.

But I was like, I don't know. There was something about that interview that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. So that coupled with me not really liking this record. I was like, oh, I'd like you guys, but this feels like a stumble. Yeah, I think that like, I, you know, again, I've written enough profiles where if a band, like, says something totally innocuous about another band, it's like, oh, yeah, this is going to be like the centerpiece of my. profile so yeah i get that but also like they might not be any news i i think that we have to mention i can't believe you went this long with talking about less claypool side projects and not bring up oyster head what a fit what a failure on your end oh that's true but you know i think i guess i think of that

is a trey anastasio side project that les claypole tends to be in and just to clarify you know i'm not knocking like the profile itself i'm saying like the band like how they come up but you're because yeah If you're interviewing someone and they're ripping a band, that's for sure going in the profile. So I don't fault the writer for doing that. I think the writer did a good job with that piece. I'm just saying that the band themselves annoyed me reading that story. And maybe they're annoying people, so that was like a good reflection of what they're like. So, yeah, good piece, annoying band a little bit.

But I still like them. I still hope they kind of just reel it back a little bit. Let's get to our mailbag here. And again, thank you, everyone, for writing in. It's always great to hear from our listeners. If you want to hit us up, we're at Indycast Mailbag at gmail.com. Ian, do you want to read this one? Sure thing.

Okay, so we got Dana in Chicago writing in saying IDK. That's, I don't know, for those of you, not fluent in Internet, argo. I don't know if I have a real question here, but is the Minions Line the New Peppa a pig line. Seems fair. Dana then posted a screenshot of the Minions Rise of Grue 6.0 review, same as Foxing. Foxing is getting a lot of, they're getting a lot of, catching a lot of strays in this episode. Okay, here's a more serious question. Any thoughts on the new pitchfork site rebrand? I had to make three full swipes to get down to the reviews, and it feels like a sort of crossing of the Rubicon for the importance of record reviews. How do you feel about the waning influence of straight-up

music criticism compared to profiles, coverage, lists, etc. Wormley, Dana, and Chicago. So we have the crossing of the, you said wackiness Rubicon before. This is a different kind of Rubicon. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for writing in, Dana. I don't think we're interested that much in talking about the redesign of the website, as much as the larger question about reviews being diminished.

And I've seen other people make this point. And I don't know if people are reading into the places. spent of reviews on the website too much, but, you know, there does seem to be the suggestion that reviews are being buried a little bit on the site. And then other types of coverage are being, you know, kind of put higher and made more prominent. Yeah, I don't know this for a fact, but I'm, I would guess that the most read articles in any given day on Pitchfork are news items, you know, like if someone announces a tour, or if Lana Del Rey is dating the dude from Salem, or the January 6th guy

where in the descendant shirt, you know, stories like that would probably be the most red stories. Whereas the reviews, especially the reviews of bands that aren't that well known, would probably be among the least red. I mean, again, I don't know that for a fact, but I know that that is true almost everywhere, like at Uprox, for instance.

That's generally true. The most red stories are news stories, because those are the things that tend to go viral. Much more likely than if you're reviewing a, you know, a record by a little known, you know, punk band, and you give it like a 6.8. You know, that's not going to be read as much. You know, I feel like some critics respond to stuff like this,

and they look at it as sort of like the end of music criticism, like if the conventional album review is being diminished. And by the way, this has been going on for a long time, and it's not just a pitchfork, it's everywhere. And, I mean, I think it's been going on really since the advent of social media. I think social media has sort of expedited the diminishment of, you know, the old-fashioned album review. I have to say that, to be frank, most album reviews are pretty boring to read. They're formulaic, and they rely on jargon that critics use in reviews,

and they don't really make sense to, like, the average reader. And there's so many avenues now for talking about music. that I think the sort of the core desire for people to learn about music and to like discovery music and even to hear conversations about it, that's not going away. It's just that it's evolving and going in different directions. You have podcasts like this one. You have critics on YouTube. You have social media. You know, people talking about music there.

So I don't know. I mean, look, we came up writing reviews. So there is a sentimental attachment to it. But I don't necessarily look at it as like the sky is. falling. I just think it's an evolution brought about by technology, and I think it feels pretty natural. How do you feel about it? I mean, you are like a world champion album review writer. I've written more pitchfork reviews than literally anyone in human history. That's incredible. That's literally true, right? Yeah, I looked it up, not like just basically doing a search on the website.

You can enter in a reviewer's name and see how many they've written. 184 as of this requirement. And just to check, like, because I've only been there since 2007. I'm like, okay, maybe Mark Richardson or Philip Sherburn. I've got them beat by at least 200. Wow. It's an unbreakable record. You're like Kell Ripkin.

I'm hoping to get to 1,000. You're the Iron Man. You're the Iron Man of Pitchfork. So, I mean, yeah, like as someone who came up writing reviews, and that's like my primary format of expression, you know, can't help but be a little bummed about it. I'm feeling like, you know, like I remember Tim from Strand of Oaks called us the Stockton and Malona music criticism. I feel more like Mark Eaton, the guy on the jazz who was like 7-4 and could block shots

and do that's just about it. And like that within a span of five years, that type of NBA player was completely drummed out of the league. Like my skill set doesn't really translate. And it's obviously just an existential bummer. But, you know, like regardless how you feel about emotionally about the rebrand. It's, it's so much more widespread. Like, this is just an example of it as opposed to like a leader. I mean, Rolling Stone used to be, you know, the most impactful review source on the fucking planet.

It would be a significant part of the print version. Now when you go to the print version, it's like one or two pages tops. Most are capsule reviews. I go to Rolling Stone mostly to get better call solo recaps. And, you know, they have some really interesting. intensive political coverage. But, I mean, yeah, reviews, like Steve said, for many reasons. In fact, they're kind of boring.

I don't need, like, I can listen to the album first before someone tells me. I love reviews because, like, I don't have a lot of time to find new music. I need someone I trust to explain to me in plain terms, hey, should this be worthy of my time? I like them. Like, I'd rather read that than, like, a profile or some sort of, like, big pop culture. conceptual piece. And also, it's like, I'm 42 years old. This game is a young person's game.

It's a young, naive person's game who's willing to work for not a lot of money. And so, you know, cycle life type shit. Well, you haven't been drummed out because you have entered the podcast world. Now you have millions of people listening to you on this show. So you've obviously evolved. You've moved with the times, which is what you got to do in order to hang around. I am surprised that Pitchfork isn't yet doing things like Better Call Saul recaps. I wonder if that's going to be happening down the pike because I know for me, I've worked in the media now for like 22 years, if you can believe it.

And I've worked in all types of mediums. I've worked in daily newspapers, all weeklies and websites. I've never worked for a pure music publication or website. and it's really, really hard to exist if you're only doing music. Because even in culture writing, there's not as big of an audience for music writing as there is for TV writing or movies or, you know, expanding beyond that going into politics and what have you. So I don't know. I'm curious to see how that evolves. As you mentioned Rolling Stone now. And this has been true for a while with Rolling Stone. I mean, they have a history of this obviously going back to the 60s. you know, they cover all kinds of things, not just music.

So, yeah, I'll be curious to see how that evolves over time, like with some of the big kind of standalone music places because it's got to be hard to make it just doing that, you know. Well, we'll divide and conquer the bear recap market. Yeah, exactly. So, Ian, we did not live up to our promise this week. We promised to get the meat to our listeners within 30 minutes. We went a little bit over this week.

We had just too much banter material. Gotta let that meat marinate. Exactly. We had to leave it on the grill for a few extra minutes just to make sure it was fully cooked. But I think we're ready to go here. Let's talk about Interpol. They have a new album out today.

It's called The Other Side of Make Believe. This is their seventh record. Or you could say it's the seventh version of the same. Interpol record that has come out over the past 20 years. This is their first album since 2018's Marauder, and it was produced by Flood, very famous for working with U2, in 9-inch Nails, and Depeche Mode, and Smashing Pumpkins. And also Alan Mulder, who has worked with the band in the past. How do we want to approach this, Ian?

Do we want to dive into the album itself, or do we just want to talk about Turn on the Bright lights the entire time. Because I feel like if you talk about Interpol, you inevitably end up talking about Turn on the Bright Lights, I should mention that that album turns 20 later this year. I assume that there'll be a 20th anniversary edition of that record. There's always like an anniversary edition of that album. I feel like every five years. So I'm sure there's going to be like a red vinyl version or something, you know, whatever the case may be. But how do we want to dive into this? How much do we care about this album versus the rest of Interpol's career?

Well, I think you already tipped your hand by saying this is like the seventh Interpol album, just like a minor variation of turn on the bright lights. It's like, you know, when Taco Bell releases a new, like, crunch rap Gordita, how like this one has guacamole and casso or something like that. But look, it's still fucking satisfying, particularly if you have it at 11 p.m. at night and you're fucking wasted. Exactly. You've had some drinks and maybe some other things. Just like Interpol itself, you know, you're out late at night. The Taco and the Interpol record both got on very well.

Exactly. So, yeah, I wondered if, I mean, talking about Interpol's history was like particularly interesting because, you know, like you said, they've been consistent. They make the similar sound. They come back every three or four years, make a record, which I guess really distinguishes them from like a lot. either meet me in the bathroom peers who like make these colossal failures, take long hiatuses. And I think it's interesting, it's always interesting to talk about a new Interpol for this reason, because you're not just talking about like Interpol. You're talking about this sound, this aesthetic and this era really, which is completely out of step with right now. So it's like a referendum on a much, much, much larger topic. And so, you know, how much you like this.

record, similar in how much you like Marauder or El Pintour, the 2014 record, or Interpol, the 2010 record, really depends upon how much you like Turn on the Bright Lights. Like, I would love to meet somebody who became Interpol-pilled based on, like, El Pintor. It's like, I don't really fuck with Turn on the Bright Lights or Antics, but I think they really hit their stride with Marauder. Well, is it possible that there were people that came in on Our Love to Admire, because that was their major label debut. I wonder if that record has a certain

audience that was a particular age when that dropped. Maybe they were listening to K-Rock and not reading pitchfork, and that's how they heard Interpol. Is that possible? It's possible, but it gets possible if that's the sort of album maybe got them into Interpol. I've seen that many, many times with bands

who are on major labels after being on indie ones. But like I just want to see like, no, I only listen to post-Elpintore. I only listen to second era of Madador. But yeah, turn on the bright lights. I mean, that's one of my favorite albums to talk about, just because it is so reflective of a set of values which have become a little bit outmoded in current indie rock.

I know they were the, I guess you would call them like a victim. them. They were like the biggest loser in like Pitchfork's much remarked upon re-review, which re-review feature, which I think was like one of their most popular in like the past couple of years. Yeah, they gave, they turned on the bright lights originally got a 9.5, I believe, from Pitchfork. And then they rescored it and gave it a 7.0, which we don't support that. We're not going to support that. I don't agree with that. I do not agree with that. I think 9.5, that feels right to me still.

But, you know, again, this is the 45-year-old indie fan community speaking out. We do have a stance here. We are more likely to defend the 2002 indie rock album than we are to dismiss it. So, you know, take that with a grain of salt. You know, I was thinking about Interpol in that record in particular. And it seems to me like the kind of record that a 21-year-old who's in college, maybe in a big city, You know, they're experimenting with drinking and drugs and maybe they smoke clove cigarettes, you know, that kind of person. Turn on the Brett Light still seems like a record that would totally appeal to that kind of person.

But I don't know. Has Interpol entered that like Kier Smith's Joy Division, Depeche Mode lane of like legacy acts that like every generation discovers at a certain time? Like are they in that lane? Have they graduated to that? I have no sense of that. I think that they're maybe not at that level where, like, there is every given year, like, a new batch of 18 to, or even, no, let's go about, like, four, like, teenagers, let's just call them teenagers who are gar and fucking teed to get into the Smiths and the cure

and so forth. Like, if you're of a certain mindset, if you're, like, a kind of outcast, a little dark, like, you're going to get into those bands. Interpol is, like, maybe not on that level. They're certainly not on that level. They're just not as popular. But I feel like there are a band whose fan base gets like replenished every five years. They are massive in Mexico.

I can say that for certain. They can still tour stadiums. They are an institution. And I mean, you brought a point where it's like this is a band maybe you get into when you're 21. Like when turn on the bright lights dropped, it was 2002. I was post-college, living at home, just like a really depressing life. And what I would do, like my social life was taking New Jersey transit to New York City. I would see my friends who were working in eye banking.

So they were making stupid amounts of money, working 80 hours a week. And when we got together on the weekends, we do what you might expect from people who are in that position. And turn on the bright lights was fucking magic. Like that made all that stuff sound like such a higher calling. like it just sounded like this big spiritual quest to get like really fucked up in New York City at the age of 22. And you know what? If like, I think if Interpol doesn't hit you at that age, I don't think they'll ever hit

you, which I think, which is why I'm like, I understand, you know, someone who didn't, who, for whom it didn't resonate, you know, in their youth like the, like Jill Maves who wrote that review. Yeah, it's like with Weezer in a way. It's like, if Weezer doesn't get you in your teenagers, you're not going to. going to like them when you turn 30. Well, but the difference with Weezer is that Weezer has, you know, they crossed the wackiness Rubicon, you know,

years ago. They've really changed over time. Interpol has, you know, basically told the line of, like, what they are for the past two decades. And, you know, like, on Twitter this week, I made a joke that the new Interpol album finds them experimenting with hip-hop and Scott,

and there's lots of saxophones on it and blah, blah, blah. and most people knew right away that I was joking because Interpol would never do that. Interpol sounds like Interpol. That's the joke. And it's also, it would be terrible if they experimented with all those things or whatever the case may be. Because, you know, their inner pullness, I think in some ways is a hindrance because they have a very sort of narrow spectrum that they work in. But I ultimately think that it's a strength. that the reason why anyone would want to listen to this new album

is because they like Interpol, maybe they liked him, like you said, like when they were in their 20s and it reminds them of a certain time of their life. And, you know, to make a very common illusion when we talk about things like this, I mean, there is like an ACDC element to Interpol in the sense that they just make Interpol records

and you wouldn't want them to do anything else. So, you know, when we say, that they just make the same record over and over again, I don't think that's necessarily a criticism with this band, even if, like, those reiterations are lesser than the first record that they put out. Yeah, I mean, to the point of, like, they wouldn't put hip-hop in there,

I mean, Paul Banks has made actual hip-hop records, like everyone on my dick like they're supposed to be, the much-celebrated mixtape he made. He did some albums with Rizza. But, yeah, I mean, I think it's, not that like interpol needs to like switch up their sound or what have you. It's like I think they're just still kind of to toying with ways to, I don't know, ease into old age. Like, uh, I review this album for pitchfork. I don't know when it runs. It might run today. It might not. But I brought up by the way

era red hot chili peppers perhaps as a model for like what a really, uh, excellent late stage interpol album might sound like because, you know, they like the red hot chili peppers. you can call rat chili peppers post-punk at one point um it's like they you know once they kind of like smooth things out and get more melodic and maybe a little more laid back and just self-aware i don't know like it's not impossible i also think that like this band sort of died when carlos d left not just because he's like an incredible basis but because he represents so much of like what made interpol uh distasteful to some people but also like kind of what made them awesome uh that's sort of self-aware, but like not totally self-aware,

hymbo aspect to the band, which is sort of locked into 2002. Yeah, and like a genuine rock star presence, too. I mean, I remember seeing him on stage. I saw Interpol on the tour for Turn on the Bright Lights. They played in a small club. And it was amazing to see a band like that in this grubby club because they looked like Interpol. You know, it was like a little,

it wasn't maybe quite as slick as it became later, but like they were wearing the suits. and they looked like rock stars. And it's just different than most bands that you see at that level. Like they just didn't look like a small-time band. They already looked like a band that was playing arenas. And that sense of self was there from the beginning. And I think that that's, again, one of their strengths.

That's one of the things I think that makes Interpol. If you like them, that's what makes them great. I have to say, too, that, like, you know, talking about Carlos D, I think, like, the most underrated aspect of Interpol, is how well they groove. Like, especially those early records, they have like a great rhythm section. Carlos D. and then Sam Fogarino,

who's still in the band, you know, there was just like a real drive to those songs. And when you see them live, especially, like, they were like a really good live band because of the rhythm section. And to segue into this new album, I think the weakness of it for me

is that it doesn't groove as much as I want in a rhythm. Interpol Records to groove. I actually liked Marauder. I think that's like a pretty good late period Interpol record because a lot of the songs sound like PDA. It seems like PDA

is the model for that record and I like Interpol the most in that mode. Whereas on this new album I feel like NYC is the model. There's a lot of mid-tempo kind of plotting songs and some of them are good, especially in the first half of the record, but

that drive that I want from Interpol that they especially had when Carlos D was there but I think they also had it on Marauder too I don't get that as much from this album Yeah I think you mentioned the fact that it's like mid-tempo And I wouldn't even say like NYC or what have you is like the model

Like I don't know if like my I have brain worms Or I've just been like completely broken By the last couple of years of indie rock But the beat for Tame and Polly always eventually just shows up so much throughout. And it's like, you had Dave Fridman on the last album. Why didn't you do it there?

But yeah, it's a bummer to hear Sam Fogarino, who's like a fucking incredible drummer super inventive and propulsive, just kind of stick to this like straight eight-note high hat sort of beat. And also, like, we can point out the fact that this album was like written, remotely. They, you know, they were all living in various parts of the world, trading the songs on, you know, then they got together in Scotland to record the record. But yeah, there's just not that sense of like space or like, you know, for lack of a better term vibe going on here. So that puts the onus squarely on, you know, Paul Banks, who I think he does not get enough

credit for being funny. Like, he is really fucking funny. He's always been funny. And all those lines that people bring up on Turn on the Bright Lights as being like cringe. It's, he's playing a, he's playing a part. And it's, I think that part really works. The lyrics, I think, are the best part of this new record. But the songs just aren't really memorable. You know, it's like they're, this album made me reach for the first editor's album instead, where it's like, I want this sound, but I just want some dumb.

bangers with like some hooks it's and I don't know I don't know if that's like the most damning possible thing that you could say about an interpol record is that you'd rather listen to the first editors one but um I mean look Tony's a great song Fables is a great song I could put together 15 to 20 minutes from this album that if I were to go see Interpol live I wouldn't go to the bathroom during these songs you know what I mean yeah yeah I mean I think you hit upon though again the weakness of this album, the fact that it was recorded remotely. I think Marauder was like a live in the studio type record.

And it had that fun element that you're talking about. That's why you reached for the editor's record. You wanted something a little bit more fun. And I think that's another underrated aspect of Interpol. Like they're sort of fun rock and rollness. You know, they don't really get talked about that way in the same way that the strokes are. You know, like, is this it that's always looked at

as like the ultimate early 2000s, NYC, out on the town type record. I think Turn on the Bright Lights is, if it's not the equal of this is it, it's like very small notch below. And I think it has a similar vibe of like, it just makes being in a city and partying feels so romantic and fun and seductive.

And that rock and rollness aspect of Interpol, it's missing on this record. Like I wish this record, was a little bit more fun, you know, because I think the fun aspect of Interpol, the hymbo quality, you know, like you're doing cocaine in a shitty bars, bathroom stall type thing, that is a big part of their appeal. And I'm just not getting it as much on this record as I would want from an Interpol record. I think at the end of the day, it's like no one's even bothering to say, like, return to form for Interpol. Because I think, like, you know, it's like

the U-2, like their best albums since Oct-Tung Baby, like every single album. Like, I think that most Interpol fans, like, are very realistic in that, like, you can't hope for a return to form for Interpol because what you're really looking for is you returning to being 22 or whenever it is when you first heard Interpol. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner where Ed and I talk about something that we're into this week. Ian, when did you go first? You know, you mentioned earlier in the episode. It's like mid-July. Things have slowed down. Real-life work has gotten super busy for me and I haven't been able to delve into much new music. But hey, that leaves the lane open for old music.

So I've been really this past week into the Blood Brothers. This always seems to happen when I, like, when there's a new Fleet Fox's album or a new, or I see them live because as I make clear like five times a year, one of the guys from Blood Brothers is now in Fleet Fox. He's the guy who plays Maracas and upright bass and French horn. And I don't know, maybe it's like the prettiness of Fleet Foxes that like makes me boomerang into Burn Piano Al and Byrne, which I think is Blood Brothers best album. It is a very 2003 album in that it was released on V2 records and produced by Ross Robinson. And I'll tell you, like, any time I listen to that album, which isn't very often, like, if you're a Blood Brothers fan, even you will say that like this is not an everyday listen this sounds like the best fucking out of all time when it's actually playing um it makes me think of like source tags and codes in the same way

where um you hear modern bands that take elements of it but it still sounds like something that all the various offshoots of screamo or math rock or post hardcore are like building to rather than like the genesis of it all um yeah i think it's just something just a just a massive boost of energy in an otherwise slow time. I mean, new music's pretty cool. Old music, also pretty awesome. And yeah, if you're feeling like the world's disintegrating, you just want to yell into the void,

burn piano, Allen Burn, that's as good as it gets. Well, as is often the case in Recommendation Corner, I'm going to go in a completely opposite direction from Ian with my recommendation. I want to talk about an album called Moonshine by a project of Dave Hartley from the War on Drugs. It's called Nightlands. You've put out a couple records under this name,

and if you miss the interstitial instrumentals that used to exist on War on Drugs records, you might find an element of that on Nightlands. Otherwise, this record doesn't really sound at all like the War on Drugs. It has almost like a new-age-y type bent, and it's definitely an area where I think Dave gets to, indulge other interests that he has musically, that wouldn't really make sense on a war on drugs record. And of course, the war on drugs being Adam Granducille's main project as well, he dominates

the songwriting really on that band, even though it's opened up more recently on their last record. But this is just like a really kind of dreamy, beautiful record that has like a lot of interesting instrumental choices and production flourishes. and I think it's like a really interesting record. And it, I think, is the platonic ideal of what a side project is in that it's never going to be an album that would challenge the War on Drugs in terms of popularity. But it is a great showcase, I think, for a really great musician and what he can do outside of the band that he would get to do in the band.

So I think if you're a fan of the War on Drugs, you definitely want to check out this record. If you don't like the war on drugs, I think that this record is actually different enough from that band that you could get something out of it that you wouldn't get from a war on drugs record. So again, it's called Moonshine. It's by Nightlands. Definitely recommend checking it out. Nightlands is one of the 884 reviews I've written for Pitchfork. I reviewed one of their albums in 2013. Good band. Also, excellent poster on Sixers Twitter. Yes, exactly. Dave is definitely a huge Sixers fan. Thank you all for listening to this episode this week.

We'll be back with more news and reviews and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix tape newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie, and I recommend five albums per week, and we'll send it directly to your email box.