Indiecast - Is 2005 The Best Year For Indie Rock This Century? Plus: A Weird Viral Moment For Edward Sharpe And The Magnetic Zeroes

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

We open this week in a very unexpected place: "Home," the 2010 hit by Edward Sharpe And The Magnetic Zeros, which had a viral moment this week that went on for days. What is it about this song that people hate so much, and what are some of the actual worst songs of all time? (0:58)The guys also talk about the recent Billy Joel documentary, which Ian recently watched, and pick the modern-day equivalent to the Piano Man (16:47). After a brief check-in on the Fantasy Album Draft (27:45), Steven and Ian run down a list of classic albums turning 20 in the next month or so, including landmark releases from My Morning Jacket, the New Pornographers, Wolf Parade, and more (30:42). They also do a "yay or nay" segment on Death Cab For Cutie (41:24).In Recommendation Corner, Ian recommends Anamanaguchi and Steven stumps for Tyler Childers (49:07).New episodes of Indiecast drop every Friday. Listen to Episode 251 here and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can submit questions for Steve and Ian at [e-mail], and make sure to follow us on Instagram and X (formerly Twitter) for all the latest news. We also recently launched a visualizer for our favorite Indiecast moments. Check those out here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Indycast is presented by Uprox's indie mixtape. Hello everyone and welcome to Indycast. On this show we talk about the biggest indie news of the week, review albums, and we hash out trends. In this episode, it's a slow week. So we're talking about some notable albums from 2005. Wow, 20 years ago. My name is Stephen Hayden, and I'm joined by my friend and co-host.

He is the last remaining fan of Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zero's. Ian Cohen. Ian, how are you? I mean, we could just take an entire hour for me to, you know, talk about the wild shirtless lyrics of Alex Ebert, the bongrateling mandolin of Christian Letts, the competent Chirongo work of Mark Knowsworthy and such and such. Who's the woman with the short hair? What's her name? You know, any Edward Sharp heads out there that remember her? We're talking about Edward Sharp because if you're on the app formerly known as Twitter, the everything app,

There was a very bizarre thing that happened this week where a video of the 2010s era indie rock band, I guess they're technically an indie rock band, Edward Sharp in the Magnetic Zeros, you might remember them. LA band dressing like the Manson family. They have a song called Home, which I looked up over a billion streams on Spotify. So this band is eaten off that song to this day. Not eating a lot, it's Spotify streams, but they're going to the value. meal at McDonald's opera, this song. There was a viral

video this week of their tiny desk performance, and it was in the context of this being like the worst song ever made. And it was insane. There were like multiple days of discourse about this song. As we're

recording, I feel like people are still talking about this song. And it's incredible. What is your connection to Edward Sharp? I mean, you were in LA, right, during the reign of this band? I mean, I'm guessing that you had just Edward Sharp up the wazoo, because I know I have Edward Sharp experiences from that time. But for you in LA, I mean, were you just like in the belly of the beast at the time? You're not going to believe me when I say

this because, I mean, yes, I did live in Los Angeles in 2010, but I don't think I've ever heard home until this week. I don't know if I've heard. What? No way. What we need to do is go Billy Joel style and like just bring my exes onto Indycast so they can like vouch for like what my wife was actually You must have heard it you must have heard it accidentally. I refuse to believe that you weren't in like a restaurant or a grocery store or wherever. Did they have Uber back then? I don't think they did. I don't think so and there's no Uber then. But you must have heard it accidentally. You know, I could tell you that maybe but like I would get it confused maybe with like the

head in the heart or of Monsters and Men or of Fits in the Tantrums. I mean, like, these bands were just around, but I honestly can't say that, like, if I were to hear it in Ralph or something like that, I'd be like, oh, yeah, Edward Sharp of the Magnetic Zero's. Yeah. It's wild. Because I lived in Milwaukee in 2010, and Edward Sharp, huge in Milwaukee. I've seen Edward Sharp in the Magnetic Zero's multiple times live.

Not because I wanted to. I didn't like the band. I actually actively disliked them. I hated their aesthetic. People like to make jokes that Alex Ebert looks like Father John Misty. He's got the shaman Charles Manson thing going on. But it's such a brain dead operation. But they were huge in Milwaukee.

them play a club and I actually looked on you there's like footage this video footage of this show on YouTube it was at this place called club Garibaldi which is right down the street from where I lived at the time and then not long after that they played a huge show at the Papps Theater in Milwaukee I feel like they opened up for multiple bands in Milwaukee I it's very strange it was like the you know it's sort of like how Rush was really big and Cleveland before they got big. Like a Cleveland radio station started playing Rush all the time

in the early 70s and that's how they got big. That's what Milwaukee was for Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zero's in 2000. So I saw them all the time and so seeing this video was definitely a flashback to that moment in time. We've talked a lot about this era

of indie rock which I think is really fascinating. I think 2009, you know, we're going to be talking about 2005 here in a minute, that might be the greatest year for Indy Rock of the 21st century. It's certainly like among like the top two or three years. 2009 is another very momentous year. You know, it's the year Mary Weather Post Pavilion and Grizzly Bear and dirty projectors, like that arty hipster, if you want to use that word type indie rock. 2010 comes, you get Edward Sharp and the magnetic zeros. You start seeing this moment in time where looking like you were

in a coffee shop could be a way to become a pop star. There was maybe a two or three year window where that was true. And then by 2013, you started seeing indie musicians dressing like pop stars. Like the script flipped. And that's the story ever since. But yeah, Edward Sharp, a really big deal. An interesting footnote. I guess they're still a band.

I looked them up. And I think they put out, like, music, like in the last, five years at least. That sounds about her. Yeah. They're another one of those bands. I could see them still having an audience in the same way.

The Lumineers now are like a stadium band. They're a huge band. We talked about this before, about how this kind of music, it never really goes out of style. People don't talk about it, but on streaming platforms, the stomp-clap music,

people always love that shit. And yeah, Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zero's, I guess they're like, are they like the candlebox of the scene? Yeah, I guess so. And by the way, it appears that they stopped making music in 2016. So, you know, America goes in sharp decline immediately afterwards. That's true. Yeah.

It's like they had to break up when Trump was elected. It's like we're too pure. Yeah. We're too pure of a manifestation of like the Obama era. Yeah. They're a very Obama era band. You can't really imagine them outside of that. Yeah, and their Wikipedia picture, like, it shows them performing in Victoria Park in London.

It's incredible. It's absolutely perfect. And, yeah, I do like, like, we often bemoan how there feels like there's no central narrative, that everything feels so fractionated. But that allows things like this story to really just kind of dominate music Twitter for a week. And I think it's interesting how... Not just music Twitter. I feel like Twitter. Oh, yeah.

Politics guys have gotten into it. to this too. I feel like every time I logged on, it was like four or five Edward Sharp tweets in a row. And maybe Elon is just a big Edward Sharp head. I would not doubt that. He was manually plugging this into the algorithm so we would all be forced to, because after a while, you're like, do I have to see this stupid tiny desk concert thing? By the way, tiny desk concerts. Do you have a stance on them? I realize I've never watched an entire video of the Tiny Desk thing. And I kind of hate the format, to be honest. It's very, I don't know, I'm trying to pinpoint it.

It's annoying in a lot of the ways that NPR can be annoying. Yeah, and I know that it's tough for us to like, you know, rag on NPR when you're like my Exactly. They're down. Yeah. But Tiny Desk is going to be all right. They're not, you know, they're not going to, they're going to keep churning that out forever. But there was a video of Hobo Johnson. Yeah.

On Tiny Desk because someone was like, oh, you think Edward Sharp is bad. Get a load of this. And oh my God. Yeah, that was something. That, the Hobo Johnson thing, that is like, you know, that is leveling up big time on Edward Sharp. Because the thing with Edward Sharp and the song Home is that if you just listen to the song and you don't have to look at the band and you don't pay attention to the lyrics because the lyrics are terrible.

But if you just hear it on the radio or you hear it at a grocery store, it's a nice enough tune. You know, it's kind of like a sweet love song. I knew plenty of smart people in 2010 who like loved home. Like that was a song a lot of people loved. So to call it the worst song, to me that's like a little overstepping the balance. It's like when people were saying, well, no, the worst song of all time is actually, you know, like uptown girl. Like I heard, no, it's not.

It's an annoying song, but come on. It's not a bad song. It's just maybe overexposed. And with Edward Sharp, looking at the band just makes it seem so much worse because they are the cliché. of what you would have imagined a hipster looking like in 2010, even though they weren't really like a hipster band, I don't think. Like actual hipsters did not like Edward Sharp in the Magnetic Zero's in 2010.

No, and that could be why, like, I never heard it because, you know, I was like so anti-thead towards that. And by the way, they were on Vagrant Records, the house that, uh, the Get Up Kid Bill. Yeah, I mean, by that point, like, vagrant records had, like, gotten, it, they were, like, putting out, like, Hold Steady and Janet Jackson records. they eventually put out the 1975. But yeah, vagrant, yeah, they're a vagrant records band.

Yeah, maybe, I don't know, maybe some Midwest Nemo route there. I'm not sure. Maybe that's why they're big in Milwaukee. I'm like really connecting the dots here. Like Captain Jazz was opening up for him. Citizen King and like, you know, you get the connection to Promise Rings Woodwater. We're through the looking glass people. Maritime.

Maritime would have been the band at that time that those guys were in. Yeah, great band. Um, yeah, but as far as like the worst songs ever, like, what I found interesting about this discussion, even beyond like the worst songs ever, uh, thing is how this got into a discussion of like stomp clap, um, which, you know, a year ago, like everything was indie sleaze. Like you would see indie slees playlist that if it was released in 2008 to 2012, it was indie slees. Like I would see like vampire weekend and like animal collective, my girl specifically on indie sleighs playlist. And so stomp clap has really engulfed, like, everything from, like, the Decembrists to Father John Misty. Like, if you had a beard or, like, even some kind of, like, old-timey affectation, you were stomped clap. But I also think it's interesting.

You were mentioning, like, kind of the Obama era tie of it. Like, I wonder if this is just some kind of, like, repudiation of any sort of nostalgia for that era. Because I know right now you're like, God damn, I would do anything to go back to 2012. And yeah, I think maybe people are taking a clear-eyed look at it, but I don't know. The worst songs ever, like I felt like those songs were just, that was kind of a disingenuous conversation. Like it always is because people just bring up, people bring out of things like, hey, yeah, or like Mr. Brightside, which is like a song, maybe you've heard it way too much and you never want to hear it again for the rest of your life. I think we are both in agreement of like what the actual worst song ever is. Well, I tweeted about this.

I said that it was Hey Leonardo by Blessed Union of Songs. souls, which to me is the worst song of all time. And I realized that, you know, that song, it came out of the late 90s, which I remember at the time feeling like this is the worst period of music in my life. Like, I was in college. And there was like a lot of good music that was going on in indie rock at that time, you know, like Elliot Smith, Neutral Milk Hotel, built a spill. The flies.

The flies. But what was on the radio was, it was like the dying embers of Alternative. rock basically. It was all these bands that were really on the poppy side of that equation. And in a way it's very similar to the moment that the Edward Sharp song

comes out of where indie rock has a moment and then you have this trailing off period where all these carpet beggar bands come in and they're doing like the second and third hand version of what was innovative two or three

years earlier. And sometimes those bands are great. We like some of those. We'll just call them like, you know, the Stone Temple Pilotses of any kind of scene. But I think that was happening in the late 90s. And for us, that era sucks because we're kind of old. I feel like the people online that were talking about this don't even know about that era. I actually wrote a column about this for the AB Club like many years ago where I made a compilation of like all the songs that I remember hearing on the radio in my college newspaper office. So some of these songs are people remember semi-charmed life

Push by Matchbox 20 Walking on the Sun by Smash Mouth. Then you get stuff like All for You by Sister Hazel. Oh God. I remember that song. Of course I went to a college in the South in the late 90s. Okay, you'll know all these songs. Yeah, I know all these songs.

And I also worked at the Gap in 1998 through 2000. So like all of the stuff that you're referring, like the, we talked about post-beck. Yeah, post-beck music like where there's like, it's like a, What would be a terrible alt rock song in 1996 now has like, you know, record scratches or whatever? That's like that, yeah, all, that whole era. I know it all. So, yeah, they're saved tonight by Eagle Eye Cherry, torn by Natalie and Bruglia.

Everybody's free to wear sunscreen. That song, Baz Luhrmann. Tubthumping, of course, the freshman by the birth pipe. How Bizarre by OMC. would barely breathing by Duncan Sheik count is that or is that like kind of more just outside the realm of like singer-songwriter type stuff? I think I think I'd be in there. I mean, some of these songs I, well, one week by Bare Naked Ladies. That's another legit worst song of all time.

That's way worse than home. Oh, yeah. Sex and Candy by Marcy Playground. Love that song. Standing outside a broken phone booth with money in my hands by primitive radio gods. Do you remember that song? I've been down hard. I've been down hard a baby

Oh yeah That's one that basically invented Moby's play I mean Yeah Some of these songs though I don't mind Like take a picture by filter Love that song

Love that song I legitimately love that song I actually like the song She's So High By Tal Bachman Oh great song Yeah And we talked about how it had a little bump

recently because an AI commercial Thought it was James Blunt Ready to Go by Republica That's another song I like Great song. Remember that song? Yeah. Not a few years ago, I saw a Republica jersey in a San Diego thrift store.

It was like a Republican T-shirt, but it was like a football jersey. To this day, I regret not getting that. I also had a friend in 1997 who was obsessed with the lead singer of Republica, who was named Saffron. I didn't think I'd be pulling from that bag today. These were all songs basically that you would either have to hear on the radio or spend $18 to get the CD. and it'd be like one song you like. I remember I did buy, or maybe I got a promo copy of it at the college paper office,

but I had the New Radicals album because I loved, you get what you give. And I still love that song, but there were no other bangers on that record. I think that song is the first track on the record, and the rest is pretty forgettable. It's just like the quintessential CD purchase for one song album, I think is the new radicals album.

Man, we're going to be doing a lot of remembering some guys in this episode. We haven't even got into the 2005 section yet. I do want to talk to you quick about the Billy Joel documentary on HBO because you mentioned in the DMs this week that you finally saw the movie, which, hats off to you. Five hours? You saw all five hours of the doc? Because you're not even really a Billy Joel fan, right? I'm a Billy Joel. I'm just going to cop to like all the baggage I'm bringing you.

into this. If you grew up as a East Coast Jew in like the 90s, like I hit that sweet spot where you could still see River of Dreams on MTV, which that is like a very, very personal choice for worst song ever. Like you cannot talk me out of that. But yeah,

it was like... In the middle of the night. It's like fucking Hakuna Matata meets like Uptown girl. Like, oh my God. Wasn't that before Lion King though? I think he was on that before Elton John was. Yeah. I mean, it's around the same time. is 93 because river dreams i'm pretty sure it's 93 that is 93 and uh lion king is 94 yeah but i think

i can flate it all together because this is like uh jewish summer camp music and yeah like i can tell you there are several songs where the lyrics were changed to be about camp akiba in the polka no's like if you really want me to like get like this stuff was so like this is so traumatic for me because I think an innocent man, that cassette is the one, quote, contemporary album. I remember my dad having before, like, maybe the Forrest Gump soundtrack. And I went home like a couple years ago and they still had it in cassette. Such a dad album. Such a dad album.

I mean, what's interesting about the doc, and I'm sure they didn't do this on purpose. I think they divided the two parts. Like the first part ends when Billy has a motorcycle accident. It's very Dylan-esque. Yes. because he has a motorcycle accident in 82, and that's the end of part one, and then part two is the rest of his career.

But the way that the movie's divided, it is a very clean break between the respectable Billy Joel era and the era that I think people hate about Billy Joel. You know, like the early, you know, especially like turn styles through the nylon curtain. If you're going to make a case for Billy Joel being a great songwriter, which I would make the case for,

it's going to be based on those albums. And then after the nylon curtain, the first album is an innocent man. And that's where you get like the fake doo-wop songs and you get like Uptown Girl. And then a few years after that, it's We Didn't Start the Fire. And a few years after that, it's River of Dreams. Like all the songs that people hate are from that era. But the movie to me, I like the second part more. Yeah.

The first part is good. And, you know, the thing about this movie is I'm not sure how much. input Billy Joel had. It is a generally like positive movie about him, but he is a pretty self-effacing persons. So it's way more candid than most movies like this. And like all I'll say is that he has three ex-wives and they're all interviewed in the movie. Yeah, that was amazing to me. There's not that many music docs I could think of where like all the ex-wives are showing up to talk about him. Maybe Ben Folds in the future, but that's going to need to be three parts. Yeah, exactly.

But in part two, you know, it's going through his career. And at some point he stops making pop records. And there's still like an hour left in the movie. And you're like, what? What's going on here? And actually the last hour was maybe my favorite part of the film. Not only because I'm in that part, like a few times. Like that's probably the part of the movie I'm in the most is the last hour.

But I do think it's really interesting. the part of his career where he stopped making music. Just what he went through, it really goes deep into his alcoholism, which I didn't expect. And just his general unhappiness. I don't know. I thought that was pretty fascinating.

And it's like the part where he's actually not talking about his music all that much. It's just about him kind of having this malaise that lasts for a long time. And then at some point, he comes back and people see him on TV and they realize like, oh, wow, Billy John.

Joel actually still sounds really good, even though he looks like a pit bull now. You know, and I just thought that was an interesting thing. I don't know if you had a similar reaction. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like this movie, this documentary movie, it was super long, like while you're watching it. But in retrospect, I don't know what I would cut. Like, because I had, like, we had to stop watching.

We made a natural stopping point, like after River of Dreams. I'm like, how is there an hour left? But yeah, the last hour is great because it goes into his, like, personal demons. And my favorite parts of this are just getting to meet like his version of the East Street band, especially when he's like the most divorced guy in the world, like hanging out with like the most Long Island guys to ever exist. Like Liberty DeVito is drummer. That guy rocks. I love I love Liberty DeVito. He's a great drummer too. You watch these live clips. Yeah, they're incredible. He kicks ass. He really took that band to a different place. Yeah, but I love how Billy Joel like as you see him

progress. He looks like an actor playing Billy Joel. Like at the beginning, maybe like kind of like Rob Schneider when he has like that kind of a tilla rat tail. And then he kind of looks like Kevin James when he's got a beard. And now he looks exactly like Paul Giamati. But yeah, you know, like I think it's interesting with Billy Joel that how normal. I don't want to say like normal like every dude. But like even as a rich guy, he's just into like really super normal rich guy things. Like, you see him in this, like, constantly renovated house in Long Island. He's on a boat.

He's chomping a cigar. He's got a hat, of course, for, like, a motorcycle company. And I just think it's very interesting to see him kind of weave through the time because you had mentioned this, like, when he did his Hurricane Sandy benefit, where he doesn't feel as tied to his era as even some of the more, like, respectable artists. Or tied to his youth. Yeah, tied to his youth especially. Even someone like Springsteen, like you see him now,

and he's clearly put a lot of work into preserving himself. And, you know, he still has to be like the muscular tough guy, and he has to look like he's carved out of granite. And similar thing like with Mick Jagger too. Like he just has to have all of his dance moves on stage. He has to be like super sveled. And with Billy Joel, he has. I mean, he looks, he looks like fine for a guy's age.

He's like in his mid-70s, but he hasn't tried to keep up the charade that he hasn't aged. And with Joel, I don't think it matters because it was, that that's the benefit of not being cool. Yeah. Is that when you age, it actually is a benefit to you because you gain stature from age. And you weren't cool anyway. So as you get, because everyone gets uncool when they're old. But if you were uncool as a young person, you actually kind of. to get more gravitas when you age.

Because then it's like, well, they've been around forever. I have to respect this person, even if I didn't like them in the past, because if you endure, it's kind of like inarguable. Like, okay, they've obviously stuck around. There's obviously some merit here. And I just think, like, who is going to be the person maybe from the last 20 years? That's like that. And I think of, like, is Ed Shearron going to be like that?

I could see that. I could see younger generation. I could see him being like a Billy Joel type figure or Coldplay maybe. Like they're more piano adjacent. So you could like them to Billy Joel in that way. And in a way that's, I think, starting to happen a little bit with Coldplay. Where, I mean, we're just thinking about them with like the CEO on camera now. But I mean, other than that, I don't know.

I just feel like if you write really good pop songs in your. uncool as a young man, when you get older, if those songs still sound good, then you kind of gain like a retroactive sense of cred. Yeah. I think Billy Joel's an example of that. Yeah, I've been thinking about, like, which popular artists that I can be like the reasonable talking head for the documentary in the future. Like I'm planning out, but I think, yeah, yeah, I mean, Colplay, but I think the thing, like when I was thinking about the modern equivalent of Billy Joel, you had mentioned at Cheered and Colplay, I think the difference is that Billy Joel is, so connected to a sense of identity, like a New York identity.

Like he sold out like what, Madison Square Garden, 100 consecutive times. And I think that one of the things I've appreciated in retrospect about the documentary is that all the parts where I thought like, oh my God, he's doing this again, where he talks about like, you know, not being able to connect to his father or not getting respect from music critics. It speaks to this like air of grievance. I know he made a song called Angry Young Man, but there's something like very kind of cantankerous, which is not a young person word about Billy Joel, which I think allows him to cross boundaries in a way that other people of his era could not. Like, I'm going to say this and I don't know how much I believe it. It's very, I don't think like Billy Joel is a Trump guy, but he's not, you look at him like on his boat with his cigar and his manicured goatee and like his songs about like cops and so forth.

And I don't think there's this and his love of all. all things old New York. Well, he doesn't have a song about cops. I think you're thinking of Good Night's Saigon. Oh, yeah, I remember seeing it. Yeah, right. There were cops on stage singing, but it's not about cops. Yeah, I mean, he's definitely not a Trump guy.

He's spoken out against. Oh, totally. But you look at, like, the audience and, like, I don't think there's as much cognitive dissonance in liking Billy. Because, like, if you're like, yeah, New York was better back in the day, this, this sucks. I'm angry. I'm aggrieved, which is not the totality of his music, but there's some elements

of it. You can be like a hedge fun guy and listen to Billy Joel in a way that like maybe wouldn't make you as uncomfortable as listening to like Bruce Springsteen or John Mellencamp would. Well, and also he's had weird appeal among young people too where, you know, there's that Alubia Rodriguez song where. Oh yeah. We talk about listening to Uptown Girl. And what's hilarious about that song too is that I forget the exact lyric. But it's basically saying like we heard Uptown Girl first and then you played it for like, a different girl.

And she's like trying to gatekeep Uptown girl. And the song. Like we're talking. That rocks. Like we're talking about like a big star song or something, but we're talking about Uptown Girl. It's very funny. Let's talk quick here about our fantasy album draft.

You have an album out today by Amari. Is it Amari? I think it's Amari. Is there a score for that yet? No. And I don't think there's anything even on album of the year. It's been, yeah, it's been a very, strange sort of

fantasy draft because like there's so much stuff where if like they came out where it's like oh if this came out like a couple months ago when we did the draft totally picked this but there's been a lot of shorter album cycles lately and it's been a very odd

it's been a very odd quarter I would say yeah I have a big regrets about things I haven't taken the biggest one is Ryan Davis in the Roadhouse band, which is a record that I wrote about. I interviewed Ryan Davis, but it wasn't on Metacritic when I was doing my draft, you know, scouting report, and I just blanked that it was coming out in July.

So I didn't pick it, and of course, that has like a 90 right now on Metacritic. And it's definitely an album where if you're going to write about it, you probably love it. You know, it's that kind of record. So I'm really kicking myself over that. Alex G keeps dropping here. Yeah. All music guide finally found the need to chime in, give it a three and a half stars,

which is like, you know, a 5.2 in the L music guide exchange rate. Yeah, and like the line of best fit, they're screwing me over too. What the hell is going? The line of best fit, really? I feel like they've screwed me a couple times. They've got like an anti-hidden agenda.

I think you've spoken. I'm taking this personally. Yeah, I think you've spoken, if not glowingly, like somewhat mid on Death Cap for Cuity. And Line of Best Fit is the name of the Death Cat for Cuity song. So in reality, you only got yourself to blame. You're giving away a segment here that we have coming up here. We'll get to that here in a minute. Yeah, this Pop Matters review that dropped. They're still around.

They're still around. They're still around. Yeah, these late comers. They've been around forever. I've written for Pop Matters back in like 2000. I did too. Yeah, we all have. I did too. But their review dropped like two weeks after the album came out.

They gave it like a midling review. And then AllMusic Guide, their review published this week. And they gave it three and a half. They're usually like an automatic four stars, all music. What's going on here? What's the deal? Steve Erlewine, our nation tone is the only eyes to you, I'm saying. He's not there anymore.

He can't blame. can't blame Steve. No, I'm not blaming him. I mean, he needs to get back unless he's going to like, unless he's going to do Alex G like I'm wide awake it's morning or something. I don't know what the hell's going on, man. Someone's got to crack some skulls over there at AllMusic Guide. All right, let's get to our main segment this week.

Like I said, at the top of the episode. It's a slow week for releases. There's an Ethel Cain record out today that we are going to talk about next week, I guess, because you got your stream yesterday. and it's a long album as she tends to make a lot of like 15 minute tracks

you got like the long instrumental tracks it's kind of like disintegration if like every song was plain song oh that sounds great I thought you're going to say it's like if every if like Metallica's load but every song's fixer well that would be if I wanted to knock the record I would say that I mean there's

we'll talk about it next week we got we got plenty to get to with that album but instead of that, we're going to remember some more guys here. We're going to talk about albums that came out in 2005 that are going to be celebrating their 20th anniversary in the next month or so. Like month or two, I think maybe in some cases. But it's a real like murderer's row of records. And again, this is just like part of 2005.

So you have the new pornographers, twin cinema. You have wolf parades, apologies to the Queen Mary, Kanye West. late registration, not Indy Rock, but still landmark record. My Morning Jacket, Z, Animal Collective, Fields, Devendra Bonhart. What record is that? That's Cripplecrow. They're doing a 20th anniversary release of it pretty soon.

And the clientele is that Strange Geometry. Strange Geometry. You got the Wolfmother record came out. I don't believe that. I mean, I know you're right, but that does not feel 2000. to me. I just want to make sure, for some reason, now I'm wondering if that was, because I think I saw that on a list of 2005. You could be right.

That could be a situation where it was like big in Australia, but then eventually got to America. But like, yeah, that album did come out in 2005. In Australia, and it came out in America in 2006. Okay. Because otherwise that was going to be the best album, right, that we were talking about here. Yeah, Pittsburgh gave it a 7.5. Did you know that? I'm a little surprised by that

Same. I remember liking it at the time. Six singles. I know. I could not name one Wolfmother song. Oh, I, Joker and the Thief, even I can name that. But that was oddly enough, the sixth single after a woman, love train, mine eye, mine's eye, white unicorn, and dimension.

So I said this earlier that, I think 2005, because I was thinking that. Because I did my big list of favorite indie rock albums of the 21st century so far. And I think 2005 had the most entries on that list. You know, you've also got Separation Sunday came out that year. Your favorite I'm Wide Awake. It's Morning came out that year. Silent Alarm came out that year. Alligator came out that year.

Alligator. I mean, Murder's Row of records. I mean, is that the best year for indie rock? I mean, it's my favorite year. It's my favorite year. year. And I mean, it's like, it was a year where so much, like, it was such a, I have so many good memories of that year just from where my life was at. And, but I think when you look at it like objectively, if you like, you know, also Illinois came out that year. Clap your hands say, yeah, came out

that year. Your boys put out XMY. XMY. Your favorite Coldplay record came out that year. Yeah, it's just so much good stuff happening that year. And, uh, you know, Yeah, and it was like interesting because like, you know, like pop was clearly, I'm sure having a big year, but it was like it felt like indie rock was kind of the central part of the disc. It still felt fun. You know, there was like a lot of blogs that were just kind of starting to pop up myself. You know, Passion of the Wyss started in 2005, Aquarium drunkard started in 2005, Gorilla versus Bear started in 2005. I know this because I did the, I did a big piece on both blog rock and the Cindy Lee record. But yeah, it felt like Cindy Lee was happening every week.

Yeah, incredible year. And yeah, I'm just looking at all the albums that came out in 2005. Yeah, Gimme Fiction by Spoon came out that year. Extraordinary Machine. Clap your hand and say, yeah, I don't know if we've said that already. Just an incredible year. But let's talk about just the albums that came out in this month or so 20 years ago. Out of the ones I mentioned, because I did a little list for me what I think are my favorites. from just this sliver of 2005. I think I have Z number one. Twin Cinema number two, although that could be number one. I mean, the thing with new pornographers, I'd forgotten how great that band was for a long time. And then last year,

or maybe even earlier this year, I revisited like the first three records. And they are incredible. Insanely good, yeah. They're so good. Like, oh my God, Carl Newman. And his solo record that he put out at that, the Slow Wonder. Yeah, great record.

Oh, my God. So good. He was on fire. Yeah, Nico and Destroy, like the whole, the whole. Yeah, Dan Behar song. I made an album of just Dan Bayhar songs from the Destroyer records, from the New Pornographers records. And it's a great record.

It's like, man, it's one of my favorite Dan Bayhar albums. And they continue to be good after that, too, I think. They've had a good, respectable, I don't think they've ever made, like, a bad record. But, man, those first three are just on another. level. Kurt Dahl. Kurt Dahl. We got to talk about not the new drummer because he's in the headlines for us. But Kurt Dahl, the drummer on those records, like what is this guy doing on a Power Pop record? Like, he should be in like Converge or something like that. But I think that's what makes it go. Exactly. Exactly. Because a lot of Power Pop, it can be a little cutesy or maybe

limp a little bit. And there's like a real muscularity to those albums just on top of like the incredible melodies and I feel like there's like multiple hooks in a lot of those songs. It's pretty, pretty incredible. So that might be like 1A or 1A, 1B with Z. Because then you have feels, I'd have right in that camp too. And then I have Wolf Parade after that. But like the top three there, because Will Parade I think is a little bit lower for me. But like those first three, Z, Twin Cinema and Fields, any one of those would have been the

album of the year and any other year, I think. Yeah. And maybe even our this year, but, like, it's a loaded year. Yeah, I'm going to be writing about Wolf Parade for its 20th anniversary. And to me, shine a light is what I would consider to be, like, the platonic ideal for me of an indie rock song. Oh, my God. That whole, like, that, Wolf Parade is just, like, kind of the central note of everything that was happening, whether we're talking about, like, you know, the kind of rise of art rock or, like, you know, Bruce Springsteen-ish,

kind of things going on, like everything happening in Canada. I don't think we mentioned the broken social scene self-titled album, which came out around this time, which I loved dearly. And I mean, how do you, like, how do you rank this stuff? Because, like, you know, my morning jacket, mind-blowing album. But, like, how do you compare it with, like, what might be my favorite animal collective album? You know, like one of the most consistent bands of its time.

Like, or a strange geometry, an album that I listened to probably more than all of those over the past 20 years. And late, right, I listened to. late registration recently just because I get in the mood when like album anniversaries come around and that that out is so it's so insanely good like you you just can't believe that something like that was allowed to be a massive like a rap album with like john brian production and we major happening and um is that the best rana you think you think that's the or i think it's the one that i'm most likely to listen to because you can put it up against and like you know my

Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy and that one is like harder to put on like you need to like really be prepared to listen to that late. There's so many sketches too on that album that. Late registration. No on my beautiful dark twist I feel like there's so many spoken word things on that album that drag it down a little bit.

Bro5 brooks a better skit. Like you'll have like an incredible song and then but like the CD track will be like three minutes longer than it needs to be because there's some spoken word thing at the end and it just kills the momentum of it. I mean I feel like late at The case I would make for it is that it has the balance of Kanye, like artistic, ambitious Kanye and also like Red Meat, Kanye.

Like he's giving you these great pop singles. But like you said, he's working with John Bryan. Isn't Chris Martin on that record? Or is that, Adam Levine's on, I heard him say. Chris Martin shows up on graduation. Okay. So, but I don't know. I mean, I still love Yeez-Sys.

I love me. God, Kanye. God damn. You forget that like for about 10 years he was the greatest just star working in any medium I feel like. Yeah, just changing the game. Changing the game with every album. That was really what was cool to see

you know, during that time was that like it just the influence was immediate. But yeah, I love that. Love that album. It just puts me in such a good space because that's like when I was like starting to like become like an actual writer, like a guy blogging like

5,000 words about like Death Cab in Georgia football. But I put Devendra Banhart in there because, like, not because it's like my favorite record. It's just reddling at that time. But you can draw, like I think he's maybe going to start popping up in the news more because, you know, I don't think

you can talk about Edward Sharp and the magnetic zeros without going back to what Freak Folk and specifically he was doing at that time, you know? Totally. Totally. Or Father John Misty. I mean, some more thing. I mean, He took what DeVendro Benhardt was doing and just applied, in my mind, better lyrics to it. Definitely that aesthetic.

And that's a really good record, too. I actually revisited that randomly a few years ago. And I thought, oh, wow, this is actually really good record. One album we did not mention that is turning 20 very soon is Plans by Death Cab for Cutie. And that's because we are saving it for our yay or nay segment, which we will launch in. to right now. This is for the IG. It's for the reels. It's the reel and the kids. So, yay or nay, on Death Cat for Cutie, are they an innovative, an important emo band, or are they a boring pop rock band? What say you, Ian? I know the answer. I know what you're going to say,

but let's hear your case for Death Cat for Cutty. And the way you framed that they're kind of both, but I'll get into that. So, like, just to be very brief with that, I was having a conversation with my friends who have pretty similar taste to mine about deaf tones recently and like they have not caught up. They've not kept up with death tones. They're like, oh, this is like, I heard it's new metal. I heard this is school shooter music. And I played them hole in the earth and they were like, oh, this sounds good, but I can't be getting into deaf tones at 35. You know what I mean? I think death cab is kind of a similar band where I just have to be, uh, you know, up front about my baggage with the band where I got into them when I was like 20. I've always found it super interesting to

read in your books like you're reading like writing about your early 20s uh and how you frame it and i think we were like kind of going through the same stuff but i think we write about it very differently uh and you know in those times you don't strike me as someone who would have been into death cab at that time me on the other hand uh this was music that really really just kind of spoke to this you know sad but like victimized sort of mindset about things and um yeah transatlanticism was an out like i was I could not stop listening to in 2003 unless I wanted to listen to the Meadowlands instead. And Plans is a record that I associate with this great time in my life, even though I know objectively there are parts of it that are pretty indefensible. And I think that's like

Death Cab as a whole in that they got their hooks into me at a time when I was like very prepared to hear them. And I think that there are bands like that now that I dislike, but like people who are 20 would be super into that because I'm just not in the headspace. But yeah, in the time since plans, every Death Cab album has been had like maybe two to five good songs, one great one and like a couple that are just like awful. And yeah, I think that they are, I think if you go back, they're such an important part of like where indie rock goes over the, you know, past 25 years. But if I were like, it's a band I love and I can talk about like I can talk about like why

I love them. I can't defend them. I find that very hard to do. But if I had to, I would say go back to we have the facts and we're voting yes, because that is a really interesting intersection of, you know, the bands they were influenced by like modest mouse and built a spill, all the Pacific Northwest stuff, the 90s. There was a lot of slow core happening in there, like some like little fury bugs. And they aren't really an emo band, but they just have that sort of perspective. They have that attitude of emo that just kind of got them grandfathered into the genre. So yeah, that and it sounds like an indie rock record. Maybe I would like defend them on the basis of Chris Wallace production. I mean, he left the band after narrow stairs, I guess. No, he was on codes and keys.

But yeah, when you look at like what he's produced and like what the band was produced in the time since, I think that you can make the argument of Chris Wall as the brains of the operation. I'm like very much Yay, even though, like, I know their albums won't move me to any way, shape, or form the way they used to. Kind of like with bright eyes or, you know, like, a weezer or like any of those bands that I really got into when I was, like, 20 and, like, teens to 20s and couldn't possibly love if I got into them now. So I'm going to say, nay, even though I feel like I probably should abstain from this because I haven't listened enough to Death Capricuity. The problem is that whenever I've tried listening to them, I just felt really bored by them. And the thing I would say, if you compare them to other sad guy guitar bands that people get into when they're a teenager, whether we're talking about REM or the Smiths or The Cure, I just feel like Death Cab has way less swag than those bands.

I agree. If you think about Michael Stipe or Morrissey or Robert Smith, Ben Gibbard just seems like an IT guy compared to those people. There's just not anything that seems all that interesting about him. He's kind of bland and anonymous. Like the most interesting thing about Ben Gibbard is that he kind of looks like Will Forte. And as for the other guys in the band, I have no idea who they are other than the guitar player who quit 10 years ago. And it feels like a lot of even people who like Death Cap for Cudy don't really like the records they've made since that guy left.

you know again i i can't hate on death cab because i think it's a nice melodic rock music but i i just feel like the stuff i've heard seems kind of generic like what i would say the fans is like what's their defining song like what is the one song that you can point to and say this is undeniably a classic that is a part of american culture a part of indie rock culture you know a modern standard like I don't think there is a Death Cab for Cutie song that's like that. But me personally, I couldn't name a Death Cab song if it tapped me on the shoulder and said, hi, I was written by Ben Gibbard. And there's a lot of bands I don't like where I can name several of their songs because

they're just a part of the world. But I don't feel like Death Cab has a song like that. So for me, it has to be a nay. I'll push back and say, like, I will follow you into the dark as like one that has achieved like exit velocity. I mean, it was nominated for Grammys and stuff. And I think that, like, but I also would say that it's kind of a outlier with Death Cab songs. I think the New Year could be, I think with Ben Gibbard, when you hear his voice and when you hear his lyrics, you know it's him.

Like, he's definitely not a swaggy guy by any stretch to the imagination. But he has such a distinct writing style. And I think that's what makes me feel a little bit of, you know, softness for people who can't stand them because it is such a distinct style of how he looks and how he sounds and the way he words things and how like he kind of stuffs too many words in it but like it it sort of works for him and you just think that if ben gibbard is not the person to whom the things in the song are happening it's a guy who looks like ben gibbard and so um yeah i think that i think that it's very distinct and it's very unique i think that no one has really can quite right

right like him, but at the same time, that's kind of why some people can't stand him. Because it's, I don't know. It embodies a greater, you know, you put, you talk about him and then you get the O.C. And like all like, you know, Michael Sarah and kind of mumble core. So it's, it's kind of this, it embodies this greater, greater part of indie culture in the 2010. I beg to differ. I don't think it's that distinct if you're not a fan of the band. I think if you listen to this band a lot, you can pick out certain characteristics of their songs.

You could define what they are. But again, I think there are bands that I don't like, but I can tell you what they sound like. And I could give you what makes them them. And with Death Cab, I can't do that. It is, like, I am following them into the dark, so to speak, and I lose them immediately. We've now reached the part of our episode that we call Recommendation Corner, when Ian and I talk about something we're into this week. Ian, why don't you go first?

All right, so a band called Anamonaguchi is putting out a, so I think it's their first record in like six years. It's called Anyway. And this is a band I've been aware of for maybe 10 to 15 years without really like hearing them. It's a pretty, you know, it's a pretty distinct looking name. And they have a very distinct role place in the indie rock firmament where they're the biggest chip tune band ever.

I remember I saw them. when I was interviewing Porter Robinson for an anime convention. They've done a lot of video game soundtracks. They're just really in that sort of world. And they don't make a ton of albums. I think they put in like two out in the past 12 years. This one, however, has the American Football House on the cover. They wrote it during an artist retreat there.

They're also on polyvinyl. And they made it with Dave Fridman up in Cascadega, New York. And it is a rock album. It is not a chip tune album. It's not a synth pop album. It is a rock. album and it doesn't really sound like something on polyvinyl or american football but it has this sort of compressed the anniversary or a sped-up get-up kids sort of sound to it where it is not emo but it's like

you know power pop punk with some synths some wheezer in there and it's just a really hooky well-done power pop album that doesn't take it to help to do seriously some of it might sound a little like no pornographers um there's also one song that sounds a lot like the slow songs than the cures disintegration, which I find to be very interesting. This one snuck up on me. It's a band that I know, but I hadn't really engaged with. But this album, look, you're going to put the American football album on the cover. I'm going to listen to it. You do it now with Dave Fridman. I'm going to listen to it. And this is an album going to return to a lot this year. This sounds like an album I would not get into. Do you think I would? Give it a shot. What do you

got to lose, man? I'll give it a shot. I trust your opinion. It just from the way, it just sounds like It's not my thing. And I feel like the record I'm going to recommend might not be your thing. So this is going to be somewhere where we diverge maybe. I want to talk about an album called Snipe Hunter. It's by a country singer named Tyler Childers, who you might have heard of. One of the biggest artists in that space right now. He put on a record in 2017 called Purgatory, which is basically like the platonic ideal of Americana,

singer-songwriter music, guy with a guitar writing heartfelt songs about living in Appalachian. You know, that genre of music, Purgatory is like the citizen cane of modern albums in that vein. And ever since he's made that record, he's made an attempt to pivot in different directions, expand his palette sonically. The new album is produced by Rick Rubin, and it's interesting because I feel like every review I read of this record talks about how weird it is. And I think it's because it's being marketed as an Americana album, as a country album, when in reality I think it's just a Heartland Rock album. And if you listen to it that way, it actually doesn't sound all that weird. You know, there's, you know, a lot of guitars on the album. There's references to like Hinduism on the album. He's definitely trying to expand the palette from what you would expect a guy with

a guitar music being. But to me, it reminds me of like a John Cougar Melanchop record from the 80s, you know, like the Lonesome Jubilee. Like I wrote about that in my column this week. So if you think The Lonesome Jubilee is weird, then you'll think this album is weird. But I don't think either one of them are all that weird. Really good songs, though, really cool record. A good album for this time of the year. And I'm really enjoying it. Again, it's called Snipe Hunter.

It's by Tyler Childers. If you are into that kind of music, I definitely recommend checking it out. And if you don't like that record, you can check out a Chipped Tune record. It's not a Chip Tune record. In the same way, this is not a Chif Tune record. that's not a that's not a Americana record. That's true.

I guess my record could also be called a chip tune record if your records being called a chip tune record. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Indycast.

We'll be back with more news, reviews, and hashing out trends next week. And if you're looking for more music recommendations, sign up for the Indie Mix Taped newsletter. You can go to uprocks.com backslash indie

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